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July 03, 2013

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Ignatz

--George Zimmerman is no hero in my book.--

The vast majority of the free citizenry occupies that place between convicted felon and hero.

Had he not pulled his gun and left his wife to care for a brain damaged invalid the rest of her life he would be considerably less heroic than the spot he occupies now, IMO.

Gus

Porch this is sooooo soooo simple. A guy cold cocks you in the face, jumps on you and straddles you, then begins rain blows down upon your face head or where ever else those fists might land, you have clear injuries. CLEARLY YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK. You have a witness testifying as to seeing the assailant astraddle you and throwing fists. Your nose is broken. You have a gun. You pull the gun and shoot at the target center mass.
Not much doubt about what happened. One thing that is curious to me. *snark. How did Skittles get his left fist injured??

MarkO

I'm talking about the dangers facing Zim with this jury. Maybe defense counsel will put on the sorts of opinions and evidence suggested.

So far, the evidence fully supports Zim, but if you are trying a case and you refuse to articulate a reasonable theory for the other side, you are irresponsible.

boris

Granted.

Clarice

At LI i', reading the tweets about Bao's testimony. It's preposterous. Branca's practically smacking his head into the wall at the prosecution's stupidity and the Judge's rulings not to say Bao's ludicrous testimony. Another tweeter says the testimony is like a river--constantly shifting.

Captain Hate

Does God have a plan for negligent parents who don't know the whereabouts of their children?

Satan is executing his plan for Saint Traytable.

Porchlight

That's fair, MarkO.

Cecil Turner

Does GZ's "testimony" (re-enactment and interview) establish that at the time he got confronted and punched he was no longer following TM but was headed back to his car?

Yes, or at least the timeline establishes that he didn't pursue TM to contact (there was too much time elapsed). It's impossible to say whether he wandered aimlessly or did as he said, but that seems immaterial anyway.

I still think a jury could come to the conclusion that Zim might have shot him somewhere other than the heart.

Only an idiot aims anywhere but the center of the target. Same goes for anyone who thinks that's sensible. I read somewhere there's a CCW permit holder and spouse of another amongst the jury. If so, I'd hope they'd make the point persuasively.

Rob Crawford
In this case I think that notion, not articulated as such, is what causes some to think that Zim might have 1) fired a warning shot, 2) told him to get off or he would shoot him, 3) shoot him in the leg, the arm—anywhere but the chest.

One of the frustrating things is that so many think these are reasonable ideas. Each of those options could be a felony, and each would negate any claim to self defense -- if you believe you're in imminent danger of loss of life or grievous bodily harm, why didn't you shoot to kill?

You NEVER fire a warning shot. For one thing, it's irresponsible -- where's that bullet going to land? -- for another it changes self-defense into assault with a deadly weapon.

You NEVER draw and threaten. That's assault with a deadly weapon, and YOU have become the person escalating the encounter.

(This is a gray area, because of COURSE most people would prefer to not have to shoot, and in reality most threats end when the defender shows they're armed. It's rarely prosecuted, but it does happen, and do YOU want to be the test case?)

You NEVER shoot to wound. That's a Hollywood solution, not a real-world one. It's hard enough hitting the upper torso, let alone a flailing limb.

You shoot because you're in fear for your life, and then you shoot to stop the threat. That means you fire until the person drops, and then you keep the weapon pointed at them until it's clear they're not getting back up.

I would be amazed if a "journalist" actually listened to what concealed carry permit holders talk about when it comes to dangerous situations. There's ALWAYS a thread of discussion over "what could I/you have done to not get into this in the first place".

Clarice

From Big Govt "With jurors out of the courtroom, Bao acknowledge he had changed his opinion in recent weeks on two matters related to the teen's death -- how long Martin was alive after being shot and the effect of marijuana detected in Martin's body at the time of his death.
The associate medical examiner said last November that he believed Martin was alive one to three minutes. He also said Friday that marijuana could have affected Martin physically or mentally, even though he said it didn't last year.
Nelson had ruled before the trial that Martin's past marijuana use couldn't be introduced, and she didn't veer from that ruling on Friday, meaning jurors didn't hear Bao's opinion about the effect of Martin's marijuana use."

Neo

1,600 votes in Brooklyn from last year’s presidential election were only counted last week in yet another black eye for the NYC Board of Elections

No wonder Brooklyn had been covered by Section V of the Voting Rights Act (until the SCOTUS struck down Section IV).

Rob Crawford

Clarice -- I have no real exposure to courts (yay!), so have to ask -- are the judge's actions as over-the-top as I'm hearing?

Ignatz

--Only an idiot aims anywhere but the center of the target. Same goes for anyone who thinks that's sensible.--

Too many scenes of Little Joe and Marshall Dillon shooting the pistola out of some mean but redeemable bandit's hand.

henry

Yes to RC above. That is exactly how the NRA CCW course explained it, with emphasis on avoiding danger if possible. If you have time to aim other than center of mass, the danger is not imminent.

Cecil Turner

Interesting argument for acquittal. I'm sure Judge Nelson would like this all to end, but I seriously doubt she'll take it from the jury.

Wouldn't be nearly as surprised if she throws out the murder 2 charge.

Clarice

I think she's gone over the line. So apparently do Branca and some of the other courtroom tweeters.

Danube on iPad

"The vast majority of the free citizenry occupies that place between convicted felon and hero."

Sure. And that place includes, for example, "convicted misdemeanant."

jimmyk

You NEVER fire a warning shot. For one thing, it's irresponsible -- where's that bullet going to land?

Some idiot in VA killed a 7-year-old boy last night, evidently by shooting up in the air.

http://wtvr.com/2013/07/05/child-shot-midlothian-fireworks/

A warning shot in the middle of a residential complex could easily have killed someone looking out a window.

NJJan

Clarice

I have also been reading the tweets over at LI. I have absolutely no background in law. Is this the legal equivalent of a train wreck? I am finding the judge's rulings scary. Again, this is an opinion without legal background or knowledge.

Rob Crawford
Some idiot in VA killed a 7-year-old boy last night, evidently by shooting up in the air.

Celebratory gunfire should be treated as hostile fire and returned in kind.

I'm constantly amazed by the people who B&M about how horrible America's "gun culture" is, but are sanguine about Third Worlders in and out of the US emptying their guns in the air.

Every time US aircraft received small arms fire in Afghanistan and Iraq, the enemy would claim it was a wedding celebration. Well, bucko, stop shooting your guns into the air and passing aircraft wouldn't mistake it for hostile fire, OK? Amazingly, I've never been to a wedding that ended with rifles blazing away at the sky -- and I've been to weddings in Kentucky and Southern Indiana.

Gus

The only hope that this prosecution has, is for the ladies of the jury to unanimously seek a compromise guilty verdict. THAT WOULD BE CRIMINAL. It would be tantamount to throwing a bone to the mob.

Gus

Rob I heard about the kid in Va. Does anyone know who organized the Tea Party that did the shooting? Or was it done by a Pro-Life rally??

Danube on iPad

I can't think of a single erroneous ruling this judge has made where the error favored the defense.

Jane -

I can't think of a single erroneous ruling this judge has made where the error favored the defense.

Me neither. I'd forgive her if she agreed that despite bending over backwards to help them prove their case, they didn't and she was going to dismiss it, as O'Mara suggests.

But I'm pretty sure that's not happening.

Rob Crawford
Me neither. I'd forgive her if she agreed that despite bending over backwards to help them prove their case, they didn't and she was going to dismiss it, as O'Mara suggests.

Yes, if she said "I gave you every chance, at risk of the defendant's right to due process, but you utterly failed to demonstrate anything beyond what it appears to be -- a case of self-defense. A sad outcome for all, but not a crime."

But, yeah, the odds are she won't.

NJJan

Jane

I was thinking the same thing about the judge. I also agree that she won't do that.

Clarice

NJJan, I've never seen anything this bad in a US courtroom. I did study Soviet Law in my youth and this is about it.

Makes me want to sell my property in Fla an never set foot there again, but I fear this kind of crap law is taking over elsewhere.

Rob Crawford

I'll grant you that it's "crap", Clarice, but dispute that it has anything to do with "law".

Unless you're just talking about it having the form of law, as so much of the left's "science" has the form, but not the nature, of science.

boris

Cargo cult law

NJJan

I fear you are right. Clarice. In this instance, that is not comforting. With that said, I am off to put away laundry, something I should have been doing a few hours ago.

Jane -March like an Egyptian

I've never seen anything this bad in a US courtroom.

It's not just courtrooms. It's police stations and schools and town halls and everywhere else. The law no longer matters if you are on the proper side of the fence.

Gus

The fact that Zimmerman was even charged with 2nd degree murder indicates this is a POLITICALLY CORRECT MOB ACTION. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Crump, and even the pathetic excuse for a President of the United States put the fear of the MOB into the deicion makers minds. They were afraid to stand up to political pressure. What OUT did the LIBTARD LEFT leave themselves????

harrjf

Hate to disagree with Iggy but Marshall Dillon never shot a gun out of anyone's hand. Always to the torso and almost always fatal. Matt didn't fool around, he shot to kill.

Frau Kopftuch

"Justice for Trayvon Martin" trumps all requirements for a just trial. This is, after all, the son Obama might have had.

Clarice

Iagine having idiots like Bao as ME and Di Biondi as prosecutors...and this lump Kleagle as a judge..PHEH

Gus

Yes Frau, unless Obama's spouse chose Planned Parenthood over Trayvon Martin Luther King Obama jr.

Frau Kopftuch

It looks to me as if the judge is writing her shopping list while the motion to dismiss is being delivered. The prosecution is busily at work with yellow highlighters.

Short list of people I hope I never have to interact with:

Dr. Rao
FLOTUS
Dr. Bao
This judge

Gus

Clarice, Imagine having Obama as President, and Eric Holder investigating himself. Imagine Fast and Furious, NSA, the IRS, and Benghazi.
Then lump in John Kohn Kerry Heinz windsurfing to the Middle East.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE!!!

Clarice

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH Gus..I beg you.

boris

JOA denied

narciso

Some other talking points dispatched

Danube on iPad

"One of the frustrating things is that so many think these are reasonable ideas." Remember, we're dealing with a jury here.

boris

If you were on the jury and it's 5 to 1 guilty would you still hold out if they offered a manslaughter compromise?

Cecil Turner

But not a DC jury.

Frau Kopftuch

Meanwhile, in Chicago a grieving mother whose child was murdered for no apparent reason cried out, "The gang bangers control the city.
Where are the celebrities and assorted leaders to stand by her?

Captain Hate

From narc's link:

Anne W. Patterson, "hayzaboon": The U.S. ambassador to Egypt has been a disgrace, siding with the Muslim Brotherhood. Being the object of loathing on the streets of Cairo and called "old hag" has been her not undeserved reward for this betrayal of American principles.

Incredible how the smartest Preznit evarrrrr is able to appoint such unqualified oafs of both sexes

Gus

Frau? Perhaps they are at a RAP CONCERT at the WHITE HOUSE??

Clarice

He just appointed a former erotica reader to a high post in the CIA/ I must be having a long nightmare.

Gus

Capn' how dare you!! Do you know that Jug Ears Von Douchebag has to deal with NETANYAHU on a daily basis!!!!

Captain Hate

Usually she uses this type of language when throwing lamps at Slick: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/07/04/hillary-clinton-f-k-white-house-correspondents-association-dinner

Account Deleted

CSM Meza (Zimmerman's uncle) is a very impressive witness. BLDR would give his pension to have had a witness as credible.

Gus

Ahhhh Bob Beckel, the man who bounced a check with a prostitute. He just said Zimmerman broke the law, because he was not in eminent fear of being killed. That's not AT ALL what the law requires of self defense. Libtards lie as naturally as they spend others money.

centralcal

Uncle Meza absolutely credible, very moving, believable testimony in only 10 - 15 minutes.

Clarice

One observer at least tweeted the courtroom was teary after Meza's testimony.

Jack is Back!

Rick,

A 26 year lifer retires as an E-9 is not some one you can impeach easily. Bernie backs off but impresion made. Wonder how many of jury have any military background?

Also wonder his command? narciso?

Danube on iPad

"If you were on the jury and it's 5 to 1 guilty would you still hold out if they offered a manslaughter compromise?"

I would hold out for acquittal.

What evidence did Meza give?

centralcal

What evidence did Meza give?

Testified to how he first came to hear the 911 recording - in his home, working at computer, back to TV (his wife had on the news), the minute he heard the screams for help, he arose and turned to the TV, saying that is my nephew George.

He described the anguish and terror in the voice. GZ moved to tears in eyes - actually, I was moved to almost tears, so convincing was Mr. Meza.

Account Deleted

JiB,

We no longer have to wonder where George got the impetus to serve as a volunteer any more than a hard look at Tracy leaves much doubt about the thug's antecedents. Anyone living in a neighborhood with Martins hanging around would be happy with a Zimmerman or a Meza as next door neighbors.

maryrose

I would hold out for acquital. Self-defense case-pure and simple.

NJJan

O'Mara holding press conference now. Says wants to get out that Zimmerman's mom says it was him screaming. He says he respects judged decision to dent JOA. What else is he going to say. He is still trying case in front of her.

narciso

Well George's father, was a magistrate, and served in army intel in Vietnam, recall they tried the meme, that he had somehow intervened in his son's case.

The evidence, as poorly as it was handled, doesn't suggest anything but Martin as the aggressor.

NJJan

Says they are good prosecutors with a straight face.

centralcal

An observation about the jury....

After an almost 3 hour back and forth between O'Mara, Mantei, and the Judge re: motion for acquittal, the jury was to be brought back in at 4:45 pm.

The Judge looked at the jurors, apologized for the 3 hours they waited and asked them if they wanted to end the day or begin to hear defense witnesses.

Boy, they answered very vocally they wanted to hear defense witness(es).

Jane -walk like an Egyptian

OT: Anyone think Morsi is coming back? A friend in Egypt says she is worried about it.

Clarice

A very bright (non law) professor with whom I correspond asks since the mandate is a tax, isn't the waiver an impermissible example of selective enforcement. Any ideas?

NJJan

In my previous post, dent should be deny and judged should be judge's

Clarice

I don't see a great deal of difference in this waiver than in the other considerable number of waivers Obama's already granted to his cronies.

Clarice

Jane, I think it's anything can happen day for a while in Egypt.

rich@gmu

***He just appointed a former erotica reader to a high post in the CIA/ I must be having a long nightmare.***

and we still have about 3 and a half years to go.

DOOM doesn't quite cover it.

also, since I'm just catching up, is the judge's decision with Bao appealable before the defense proceeds, since it was a hearing.

narciso

So Law enforcement clearly runs in both his father and his mother's side of the family; but that's supposed to be a bad thing,

narciso

The most interesting thing about Haines, was why she was promoted to the deputy directorship, and I think that has to do with her work as state department legal advisor and deputy white house counsel, re Benghazi and other matters,

This compares somewhat to 'Macho Grande' the Honduras matter, rather then the Venezuelan coup.

narciso

A defense attorney, who was filling in for Rick Sanchez, agrees with you on the track of
the judges decisions,

If the Kingdom and Qatar are standing behind Asisi for now at least, he's pretty solid,

Danube on iPad

"Any ideas?"

My idea is that this administration will do whatever it wants to do.

They won't be able to appeal in the course of a jury trial.

rich@gmu

thanks, DoT. shoulda read to the end too cause it appears the defense has started.

The most interesting thing about Haines, was why she was promoted to the deputy directorship...

which makes for an interesting contrast for the unhappy tenure of Porter Goss. Don't think he could go to the bathroom without his underlings leaking like a sieve.

narciso

Here's an interesting bit from the head of the Syrian Rebels;

I salute the egyptian revolution and it's continuance, I hope that one day we will all celebrate victory towards freedom together.

narciso

Well Rich, those former underlings, Kappes and Sulick, were the ones who rewarded with their jobs back, Rodriguez is not too hard on them, in part because his coathor was Bill Harlow, the former Company spokesman,

narciso

And this is why that raises suspicions,

Bela1

George's uncle & mother gave compelling testimony today. Short & swift, the idea it was Zimmerman's voice will stick with these jurors all weekend long. I pray that they maintain some simple common sense, unlike jurors in recent trials I've seen, and I certainly hope the jurors heard the prosecutor's biting comment toward the uncle about bragging or boasting about his law enforcement or war record. Did anyone catch that disgusting little dig toward the uncle before MOM objected? It left me fuming mad. This whole case is a sham and shame. Damn the race baiters!

centralcal

Bela1: Also, BDLR was so rattled by the Uncle's credibility that on cross he referred to George as the Uncle's "son." Uncle had to correct him - my "nephew!"

Clarice

Rich no..it's not an appealable order.

narciso

Which waiver and what about the JOA?

narciso

Ah yet another Iowahawk special;

Unemployment report in a nutshell: the Taco Bell that had 30 40 hour workers now has 40 30 hour workers.—

Gmax

An E -9 ?

My now First Lieutenant offspring tells me that despite what you have heard a Command Sergeant Major outranks everyone up to the Colonel he reports to! Very impressive at least if one of the jurors has any knowledge of the military. About as high as you can get as an enlisted man.

Danube on iPad

What was BDLR's dig at Meza?

Jack is Back!

GMax,

Impressed the hell out of me. And I think it may move a few votes. Notice Bernie staye away from it. Did MoM know one or more of the jurors had the background to understand the reference? I go, yes.

Threadkiller

 The plan to confiscate your 401(k) and pension gains steam and momentum as Obama’s Media preaches the need for government to seize all retirement accounts and redistribute them.

http://giveusliberty1776.blogspot.com/2013/07/goodbye-401k-goodbye-ira-hello-argentina.html?m=1

Gmax

And I tend to be a cantankerous type unmoved by the opinion of others, but I can assure that should I be sitting on that jury the worst that could happen to Zimmerman now is a hung jury. And the 5 ladies would get to hear over and over again that this was a jury not traders village...

Gus

Narciso, Taco Bell has more people making less money. Spreading misery to all. Equality!! FAIRNESS!!!
That is a nutshell is Obama's philosophy. His perceived fairness trumps ECONOMICS 101.

narciso

One interesting thing from the Sentinel's TV guy, who used to work for the Herald, Bao relied on the writings of DiMaio in part, who is a defense expert, so yet another opening,

Jack is Back!

We haven't even heard the guts of the defense. I want to see Bernie and his dweebs handle that.

Gus

after all of this is over I think old Bernie will be rewarded with Lois Lerner's old position.

narciso

You know you've screwed up when the Iranians abandon you;


Chairman of the Iranian Parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that ousted President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood are to be blamed for the current political crisis in Egypt.

narciso

Apparently Quradawi's latest stunt, didn't site well with the Al Thani, they told him to scram, (they are the ruling dynasty of Doha.

Rob Crawford
Chairman of the Iranian Parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that ousted President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood are to be blamed for the current political crisis in Egypt.

Fight over who controls the Islamist movement -- the Muslim Brotherhood (Sunni) or the Iranians (Shia).

Danube on iPad

Try as I might, I can't figure out why the hell the state put that re-enactment and Hannity interview into evidence. The defense could not have done so, and might have felt the need to put GZ on the stand to make out their defense (I can't see how they would have done so otherwise).. Just doesn't make sense.

narciso

Yes, they are certainly closing ranks, and there was the regular boilerplate about conspirators, in Boujerdi's statement,

They are not even attempting an appearance of fairness, now with Bao's testimony, you can't take the physical evidence at face value,

centralcal

DoT, one theory I read about the Hannity interview was that BDLR wanted GZ's statement from it that he did not know about Stand Your Ground Law in FL.

He referenced it several times with his witnesses about GZ's college courses that supposedly included the SYG as part of the lessons/lectures.

Jane -walk like an Egyptian

The guy who wrote the book on medical examination that Bao referred to, is the defense witness, so that should be fun.

centralcal

Also, DoT, if you are interested, Legal Insurrection has posted the video of Uncle Jorge Meza's testimony this afternoon.

narciso

Yes, that was referenced here, Jane;

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