Back In Cairo - Despite Three Geniuses...

Despite the tireless efforts of three geniuses, Obama Clinton and Kerry have experienced "failure" in Egypt, per the NY Times Dead Tree Sunday headline:

How A U.S. Push To Defuse Egypt Ended In Failure

Online, failure was not an option - the current headline at the Times website is

How American Hopes for a Deal in Egypt Were Undercut

The URL header gives a third choice: pressure-by-us-failed-to-sway-egypts-leaders

Ross Douthat says it is time for us to go:

Now, though, the calculus has to change. Egypt is rolling back into authoritarianism along a track that’s soaked in blood. The cycle of crackdown-radicalization, crackdown-radicalization is likely to get worse, the cost of being intimately tied to the military regime is getting higher, and the window for demonstrating that America’s favor really is conditional is closing fast.

Right now, the Obama administration is trapped by its client state the way that great-power patrons often are. Because our aid to Egypt is our most obvious leverage over its military, and because we can really only pull that lever once, Washington is afraid to follow through and do it.

But leverage can be lost through inaction as well. If we can’t cut the Egyptian military off amid this blood bath, we’re basically proving that we never, ever will.

Far better to act like the superpower we are, and make an end. It’s time, and past time, to let this client go.

Just to belabor the obvious - if President Bush were backing this sort of murderous crackdown in 2007, Candidate Obama would be railing against it.

Charles Kupchan, "a professor of international affairs at Georgetown University" writes in the Times that the US should slow the dash to democracy:

Rather than cajoling Cairo to hold elections and threatening to suspend aid if it does not, Washington should press the current leadership to adhere to clear standards of responsible governance, including ending the violence and political repression, restoring the basic functions of the state, facilitating economic recovery, countering militant extremists and keeping the peace with Israel. At this fragile moment in Egypt’s political awakening, the performance of its government will be a more important determinant of its legitimacy and durability than whether it won an election.

More generally, Washington should back off from its zealous promotion of democracy in Egypt and the broader Middle East for three main reasons.

His three reasons are that, although democracy may provide stability in the long run it often leads to instability during the transition; that the entrenched power of politcal Islam creates special problems in the Middle East; and that the promotion of democracy puts us at odds with certain key allies, such as Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the Persian Gulf sheikdoms.

Comments

[narciso]

Ah, Douthat is clueless, shocker, let me count the ways;

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2013/08/17/the-narrative-implodes/

[Account Deleted]

The Gazprom/KSA alliance shows much more promise to MENA supplicants than does a nation so bereft of intelligence as to reelect a witless buffoon.

EUtopia needs to check its energy budget. The proposed expenditures look a little low from here.

[Threadkiller]

Does anybody know what YouTube video led to all this violence in Egypt?

[narciso]

It was a bootleg copy of the Mummy, from 1999.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/356073/consensus-egypt-mark-steyn

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

Ross Douchetool getting it wrong? I didn't see that coming.

[Threadkiller]

LOL narciso!

[narciso]

Thanks, TK, so now this guy crawls from under the rock;

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/18/adam-gadahn-renews-calls-for-attacks-on-americans/

[Bruce]

"cycle of crackdown-radicalization"

Versus just rolling over and letting the MB do what they want?

[Ignatz]

It's one thing to acknowledge most individuals everywhere would prefer freedom and being left alone and another to extrapolate from that, that therefore democratic self rule should be our goal for all other countries, leaving aside for the moment why we think we have to have a goal for every other country on earth in the first place.

It's the individuals who just wish to be left alone who are the primary victims of our desire to impose Jeffersonian democracy on countries which only have a realistic choice, given the state of their institutions and societies, between a relatively benevolent dictatorship and a quite malevolent one.

[Threadkiller]

Ig:

http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/2630/Harry-Hopkins-Did-He-Warn-the-Ambassador-or-Did-He-Warn-the-Embassy.aspx

[Account Deleted]

If the NYT were an actual news company, this "report" would have mentioned the current situation in Libya, where the catastrophic failure of Hillary Clinton and Obama's disastrous Arab Spring initiative manifests itself with the "government" threatening to bomb the oil tankers hauling away the Ali Baba's pelf.

It ain't just Egypt.

[Danube of Thought]

this "report" would have mentioned the current situation in Libya

And perhaps a nod to Syria.

[JIB]

The real reason we have to keep Egypt on our side and us on their's is simply - Israel. But once again, the anti-semites Clinton/Kerry/Obama do not want to sacrifice their senile understanding for the logical politic. They are hoping this all goes away but it won't and we have their ineptitude to thank for that also.

[Danube of Thought]

Conrad Black surveys the latest from Diana West, and does not like what he sees.

[Threadkiller]

http://wsau.com/news/articles/2013/aug/15/sec-bars-conrad-black-from-us-directorships-must-pay-41-million/

[Danube of Thought]

Good ad hom, TK. Very persuasive argument.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/conrad-blacks-vitriol-against-diana-west-masks-his-own-historical-blindspot

[Danube of Thought]

Ms. West responds to Mr. Black, but does not stoop so low as to bring up his battle with the SEC.

[Threadkiller]

"I read Radosh's piece earlier in the week and applauded it lustily. He put West squarely on all fours with Robert Welch and the John Birch Society, who were peddling this same nonsense fifty years ago. I remember t vividly, and Wm. F. Buckley's courageous decision to marginalize those hysterical fools.

It should come as no surprise that West has apparently swallowed the Arpaio birther hoax whole.

Very nicely done, Clarice.

Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 11, 2013 at 10:16 AM"

[Ranger]

Despite all the talk of crisis and civil war, today looks like it was pretty quiet in Cairo. The big new appears to be a Cabinet meeting, and the Brotherhood called off a couple of marches:

Egypt crisis: Cabinet discusses political crisis

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23744435

Two pro-Morsi demonstrations in Cairo on Sunday afternoon were earlier cancelled.

Sources in the Muslim Brotherhood told the BBC that the decision was made because of the "presence of snipers on buildings along the routes of the marches". The claim could not be verified.

BTW, in further narrative production, a picture is popping up all over the place of a man standing "in front of a tank" like Tiananmen Square. The big difference is that in this case, the tanks were just sitting there, guarding an intersection, and the Brotherhoodies were the once aggressively advancing towards the tanks.

[rubber Schwawn.]

Back in Iraq....other news.

It's funny this isn't a four-way with an additional POTUS. That would complete the square-root of idiocy.

[Danube of Thought]

Maricopa County prosecutor evaluates the Cold Case Posse's case. Sheriff Joe can't even get a grand jury convened in his own county.

[Ignatz]

I'd have to say Ms West, who I think is wrong in some very important ways, not only made a considerably more compelling case for her position, she came off a lot more reasonable and composed than Conrad Black in that exchange.

I wonder how many more copies of her book all this controversy has moved.

[Account Deleted]

If it were a real crisis, wouldn't Secretary of State Kerry have moored the Situation Yacht at the mouth of the Nile?

DoT,

Yes, Syria as well. I suppose we could contrast Assad giving President Weak Horse the finger with the successful French intervention in Mali to protect the back door to the TOTAL assets gained in the Anglo-French coup in Libya. Hollande may have to put French forces in harm's way in Libya in order to assure TOTAL's ability to actually get oil out.

[matt]

The discussion is, frankly, idiotic. Al Sisi has the Coptic Pope and the leading imam of Al Azhar in the government. The secular Egyptians are behind the government. 80% of the people are behind the government.

The Egyptian press are portraying the election last year as a 1932 German style election; the last before the vestiges of democracy are extinguished with a final rigged vote that was thwarted by the Army. The press is describing the MB as Islamofascists.

The record of the MB led government was clear. A collapse of the economy, persecution of minorities; unconstitutional seizures of power. The nation was/is spinning out of control. It all becomes pretty damn obvious.

Somewhere north of 14 million people protested in Tahrir Square and they said the total was 30 million nationwide. That is almost 40% of the total population.Out in the streets. That is unheard of.

Egypt is the center of the Arab world, JiB. There is no getting around that.

The MB was suppressed for its radical interpretation of the law and extremism. Once in office they proved to be extremists, or at least a significant minority of them did.

The Egyptian people have spoken clearly to us. Obama is the most hated man in the country after Morsi. We need to continue humanitarian aid and support the people while holding the military accountable.

[Clarice]

The Paia do these photoops much better

[Threadkiller]

Time Machine Alert!!!

Ad hominems are allowed when you go back to 2012.

[Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square]

Did anyone else read an article a few weeks ago about Obama's connections to Salifi and the Muslim Brotherhood?

Or am I dreaming?

The real reason we have to keep Egypt on our side and us on their's is simply - Israel

That ship has sailed.

[matt]

http://www.intercollegiatereview.com/index.php/2013/08/16/egypts-military-doing-what-the-wehrmacht-should-have-done-in-1933/

[Danube of Thought]

Nothing ad hominem about reporting that the prosecutor reached a different conclusion about the evidence from Ms. West's. He did.

[Ranger]

This headline is a little ironic:

Egypt’s one-sided media coverage of the ‘Day of Rage’

http://www.france24.com/en/20130818-egypt-media-muslim-brotherhood-day-of-rage-protests-al-fath-mosque

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black here. It seems the Western press is shocked, shocked to see biased press coverage of important events.

[Threadkiller]

I did not see West's name in your article.

Tell me again about ad homs.

[Janet --- -... .- -- .- ... ..- -.-. -.- ...]

Is JustOneMinute now the DoT-TK Bickering Hour?

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

Didn't Dhimmi Carter monitor the Egyptian elections? That pretty much guarantees they were rigged.

[matt]

The Egyptian government has been working more closely than ever with Israel; they cancelled naval maneuvers with Erdogan's Turkey, Egyptians were circling Coptic churches. The Army stated today that they have no desire or intention to govern.

These are not the overt actions of an an anti human rights, anti modern country. The first actions of the new government seem to all revolve around the suppression of Islamism, and radical Islamism. That's a good thing, right?

[Threadkiller]

Seems that way, Janet.

:-(

[Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square]

It's really starting to bug me too Janet, and I think contributes to the whittling down of traffic.

[Danube on iPad]

I'll cease for today.

I haven't read past the first paragraph of either Blackmor West. I just wanted to post them both and watch the fur fly.

[Threadkiller]

Typepad's constant junking of comments that can only be surpassed by attempts to trick the software has got nothing on DoT/TK when it comes to dwindling traffic.

[centralcal]

Do what I do when I see the list of commenters on the right hand side of the main page and it is all TK and DoT, one after the other, I just stay away. It saves me a lot of annoyance.

[Threadkiller]

Not reading articles before posting provocative comments sometimes leads to traffic problems.

[Threadkiller]

She stays away but is here to comment at the same time?

I get it.

[Threadkiller]

Later.

[centralcal]

No smarty - I was away doing chores and awaiting a visitor and thought I would stop in to JOM. Got here for the above few comments and am off again to more pleasant pursuits.

[pagar2 or 3]

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/08/egypts-president-strikes-back-at-erdogans-sultanate-egypt-will-sign-on-armenian-genocide-declaration.html#comments

"Al Bawaba News reported, from the Egyptian President Twitter account, that President Adli Mansour asked Egypt's UN delegate to sign on the behalf of his Government on the Declaration of recognition of the Armenian Genocide at the United Nations. If such diplomatic move occurs it would be psychological equivalent of President Sadat visiting Israel in 1977."

Something to watch.

[Threadkiller]

Surpass = bypass

[Old Lurker]

Perhaps I can change the direction.

I mentioned a disturbing dinner party last week in DC attended by my very reliable, unflappable pal here on Nantucket. My friend is solidly conservative, has played on the big stage, and is married to a solid liberal. Interesting dynamic in that house, but it works for them. Even the wife was shocked by what she heard.

Typical dinner for a dozen or so A-Listers in Georgetown. Movers, shakers and lawyers who love them...but all acquainted with each other and with all their kids.

Conversation turned to what the kids were all doing. Most of the kids are 20+ and Ivy educated.

This kid had a real job, that kid is in Med School, another Law School, several had internships at liberal type enterprises popular with "kids these days" and then there was Joe.

Joe has a real job in CA, not an internship, reported his proud parents (a well paid DC lawyer and members of all the right clubs). They went on to explain how clever Joe's employer is in that they structured this kid's pay package carefully so that the reportable W-2 income was just under the threshold for Food Stamps and Obamacare subsidy, and for several other assistance packages available for workers in CA. In their summary sheet, the company included the monetary value of all those handouts on a list along with the actual pay so the the "Grossed Up Full Pay" looked several times higher than it actually was.

Mom and Dad were both pleased, and they both thought Joe's company was very clever.

Who says we are not doomed?

[reliapundit]

MATT NAILED IT 10000000%...

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2013/08/back-in-cairo-despite-three-geniuses.html?cid=6a00d83451b2aa69e20192ac9baa1a970d#comment-6a00d83451b2aa69e20192ac9baa1a970d

[Account Deleted]

"That's a good thing, right?"

Matt,

Doesn't the establishment of a Gazprom/KSA bloc have a much greater impact on EUtopia than on the US? We're going to feel some of the price impact but our dependence upon the MENA oil supply has been reduced to <5% of our usage.

I really do see the rise of the Gazprom/KSA bloc as a rational judgement of the US electorate and I can't fault Israel's alignment, given President Weak Horse sitting on his thumb in the Oval Office.

[Janet --- -... .- -- .- ... ..- -.-. -.- ...]

On FB -
Dennis Miller
I think it's a very fair gesture on the part of the film Elysium to share available box office receipts with the other films to that degree.

[JIB]

OL,

I can believe it - if you are liberal then you are committed to the ideal of free stuff not freedom. The fact that the kid has no shame to enter the food stamp and entitlement universe is more telling than his proud parents. When you raise a kid to feel no remorse or shame for being on the dole (even part of the time) then you have raised a future DuDa or BuBu.

We are not doomed because we are past that stage. We are in the phase of enthusiasm for social entitlement to be followed by disillusionment, fear/panic, search for the guilty (liberals), punishment of the innocent (T-party) and praise and honor for the apologists (the media):)

[My paraphrasing the 7 phases of a project]

[pagar2 or 3]

Old Lurker, IMO, there is a lot of that kind of thinking from the liberals. I don't know who they think is paying for that stuff.

[Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square]

Well I'm stunned OL.

[narciso]

You would think they would serve up a different of Purina prolefeed to the elite, but apparently not, Douthat's piece is geared to high school level attitude, Dowd is middleschool, so you know.

[rse]

OL-you did not say what kind of law but I found the DC regulatory practice parasitic and boring. I like the game of business. Of actually creating something or figuring out who is talking a good game but there is fluff underneath.

There is a lack of understanding of the extent to which Big Law is actually a huge drag on the economy. It can create value but that's not how the lawyers and lobbyists tend to think. Joe is simply following through that the real costs of living can be passed on for someone else to fund.

Having trouble typing this weekend. Reading comments much easier.

[Ranger]

Mom and Dad were both pleased, and they both thought Joe's company was very clever.

Of course, that system leave absolutely no room for pay increases, so I guess this guy is just going to work at that level until he realizes there is no upward mobility. And then when he goes to find another job, and he has to report his income history, he's going to look like someone who either does work of little value, or is really not smart because he is so under paid. This sounds like one of those "too clever by half" schemes.

[mockmook]

"Washington should press the current leadership to adhere to clear standards of responsible governance, including ending the violence and political repression, restoring the basic functions of the state, facilitating economic recovery, countering militant extremists and keeping the peace with Israel."

Washington's pressure is like a gnat compared to conditions on the ground in any foreign land.

Lead by example and with "propaganda" for equality before the law, limited government, property and minority rights.

[Clarice]

Let me suggest that that kids parents paid a fortune for his education and grabbed on to this fillip to convince themselves it wasn't wasted when he couldn't find a decent job.

[narciso]

From the Horde book thread, Gibbon, seems to have some of the same problem that Doughty had for the Wahhabi, they don't mind Puritanism in the Arab vein, but not so much in the Christian
world.

[Clarice]

*kid's parents*

[narciso]

Mansour seems willing to drive a scimitar into Erdogan's Ottoman pretensions, good show.

[Account Deleted]

Clarice,

It makes me wonder as well if they credentialed their moron at the Pitzer Academy for the Deficient. Ranger is absolutely correct re what Joe is doing to his future.

I wonder if Zuckerberg will feature his FB page where he undoubtedly bragged about his cleverness?

[Ignatz]

--In their summary sheet, the company included the monetary value of all those handouts on a list along with the actual pay so the the "Grossed Up Full Pay" looked several times higher than it actually was.--

But it isn't several times higher than it actually is. That's his real gross pay.
It's just that the welfare state compels us taxpayers to pay part of his salary whether we use their services or not.

IOW, middle class taxpayers pay, under the penalty of imprisonment for failure to comply, for programs which allow rich CEOs to pay their employees less and pocket the difference. That's the left's definition of "fairness".

[centralcal]

Oh yay - CBS is developing a new series about a female Secretary of State and it will be produced by Morgan Freeman.

Looks like television will be all (fake and myth) Hillary all the time on certain channels for the next couple of years.

[narciso]

Oh lord love a mallard, underemployment as a strategy, not a circumstance,

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

Yes narc, it's very amusing to note the shifting standards he employs. I've not read enough about him to understand what the source of the animosity against Christianity stems from but a fellow moron pointed out he was very unsympathetic to the colonies which is at least a bit consistent imo.

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

Will any of these televised fluffers for Rodham going to feature her blaming the victims of her predator husband. Will Dottie Sandusky introduce her at the 2016 donk event where nobody providing goods or services will be compensated!

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

ARE any...

[matt]

The energy landscape is changing radically. Peak oil seems to be a thing of the past for the next several decades, at least.

There are gas fields in quite a number of countries and some are actually willing to exploit them. So a KSA/Gazprom relationship or what will become all sorts of new relationships are going to, I think, change the industry fundamentally.

Already a number of the majors are taking it on the chin because they have not entered the frackin business. Perhaps a penalty for being on the side of the oligarchs?

New pipelines and LNG tankers will change the way energy is transported. Another upside is that the world will no longer be beholden to robe clad medievalists.

[matt]

The argument used by that company also completely shoots down the social safety net argument for what it is really just graft for the regime's supporters.

[bgates]

Washington should press the current leadership to adhere to clear standards of responsible governance, including ending the violence and political repression, restoring the basic functions of the state, facilitating economic recovery, countering militant extremists and keeping the peace with Israel.

Yes, they certainly should.

But what ought they to do about Egypt?

[narciso]

heh, bgates,

[rse]

matt-when I track down the various groups pushing to reorganize the econony around green energy there is usually at least one connection to Big Energy and another to a sr partner in a name natl or intl law firm.

And frequently vc rep as well. Going for those no risk Partnerships with govts

[DrJ]

completely shoots down the social safety net argument

Agreed. One of my technicians earns over the median national wage, and I offer health insurance for which I pay a fixed total amount per month. Those health monies can be used in any way -- single or household coverage or whatever -- and if what I offer exceeds the insurance cost the remaining amount goes into an HSA.

Said tech has two kids and (at the time) a significant other, so I expected her to choose family coverage. Wrong. She chose to cover herself only, let her significant other fend for himself, and put the kids on MediCal for which she still qualified.

I was shocked that she qualified. Financially though it was the right decision for her. Some safety net!

[Old Lurker]

Iggy, your 2:22 is just what depresses me so. Not only do more people who used to know better not see the evil in this trend (Joe's parents) but the CEO class, knowing exactly what they are doing, do it anyway for their own short term gain. And it will be short term, believe me.

[daddy]

Wretchard chimes in on TM's New York Times column, and paints the story in Egypt as the descendants of the Stalinists versus the descendants of the Nazis: The Revenge of the “False Choice”

[daddy]

Also worth reading Wretchard's comments in his link above. For instance:

wretchard
You can lose democracy even in America or Europe. People warn about the impending death of democracy in the US, but for actual empirical instance of its demise in Europe we need only recall the decades leading to World War 2.

Democracy requires a culture and respect for checks and balances that take a while to build. But to essay it with these bricks of straw was always going to be hard.

Someone said that the easiest way to discredit a good idea is to put a scoundrel in charge of proselytizing it. And perhaps the worst outcome of this fiasco is that democracy, which is usually a good thing, has come to be tainted with a bad odor.

That fits with Clarice's take today on Obama's flouting checks and balances.

[pagar2 or 3]

From what i understand the situation described by OL sounds like the leftist complaint about Walmart not paying a high enough wage for the employee to live without govt aid.

[Ignatz]

Well, OL we can always comfort ourselves that math, will out.

Problem is in looking through history there seem to be more examples of countries fairing poorly after math mugs them back to reality than ones doing well.

[daddy]

Which video do we blame this on?

Bomb blast hits Egyptian consulate in Benghazi

[Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square]

If you get a chance to see Brett Baier's special on Food Stamps you should. The government is actively recruiting people who don't want entitlements to take them.

It sounds like the CEO OL talks about works for Obama.

Can we know the company OL? I'd like to boycott their product.

[Old Lurker]

My friend was unwilling to tell me the name of the Joe's family (because he thinks I might know them) or of the company in question.

[Old Lurker]

Right you are, Iggy. The math always wins in the end.

[narciso]

Burn Notice, first season,

[PJ pantload]

" “There are huge amounts of archival evidence, including documents showing not only Nazi payments to the Brotherhood but also that the Nazis provided them with arms for a rebellion to kill Christians and Jews in Egypt. … There is no evidence that the Brotherhood has changed its positions.”

I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark, and I don't remember seeing Joseph.

[Ranger]

Danger Barry Obama, Danger... At Salon they published a bit with the title:

What if the president lied to us?

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/16/what_if_the_president_lied_to_us/singleton/

And this bit kind of twists the knife a bit:

But hey, if Obama partisans and the Washington punditburo want to now forward the argument that the president has just been “wrong” or inaccurate or whatever other euphemism du jour avoids the L word, then fine: They should be asking why, by their own argument, the president is so completely unaware of what his government is doing. After all, if he’s not lying, then something is still very, very wrong.

That's a very large disturbance in the Progressive side of the force if they are going to actually apply standards of truthiness to what Obama says.

Obama Lied, Privacy Died

[Stephanie]

From what i understand the situation described by OL sounds like the leftist complaint about Walmart not paying a high enough wage for the employee to live without govt aid.

That was exactly what I thought of reading the post. Any bets the lib parents are very anti walmart and would continue to defend the walmart principle as applied while continuing to bash walmart itself?

Another fine example of

prog does it = good
conservative does it = bad

even if it is the same action. And even if the company is fast moderating to the prog side of the aisle.

[JIB]

Look Ma! No teleprompter:)

Spare yourself 11+ minutes and listen to Rafael Cruz, Ted's dad, tell you about where we are today in this country as a reflection of where he was in Cuba in the late 50's and early 60's.

Frederick's pre-K teacher has a similar story and when Obama was elected she told me that this is bad dream for us freedom loving Cuban-Americans. Been there, done that, got the cuff marks to prove it.

[James D.]

OL, your story is not at all surprising. horrifying, yes. But not really surprising.

[rse]

jib-keep hearing the same from Eastern Europe emigrants. We are becoming what they thought they escaped from.

When I described what was being sought in ed to one who grew up in Yugoslavia she started crying. She said I was describing something I could not have known unless I read such intentions but it was what she had grown up with.

And this reality of UMC kids who went to private schools and elite colleges then getting jobs for half of what their parents just spent per year on tuition and board is quite real. And then they start thinking that just one more credentail will be magic ticket.

[PJ pantload]

Yes the US is becoming Balkinized. Thank you Federalism

[Ranger]

I think this would indicate that the Egyptian security forces are not playing any more games:

Muslim Brotherhood prisoners killed in Egypt

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/2013818175824286257.html

They have no intention of playing the "jail break" game any longer.

[Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square]

It is simply stunning to think how irrelevant the US has become on the world stage in 5 years.

[Ranger]

RSE,

Just remember, it didn't work in Yugoslavia (actually, it was an abject failure). I doubt it will be any more successful here.

[PJ pantload]

5 years? Is that when you were born, or did you fall off the turnip truck?

[JIB]

Can anyone guess how this sketch was created?

[Danube on iPad]

"And then when he goes to find another job, and he has to report his income history..."

Wait till he tries to buy a house.

[James D.]

DoT @ 5:00 - our noble and caring President was talking just a couple of weeks ago about relaxing mortgage lending standards and so forth...

[Ranger]

Yes, they really are just as thuggish and we have all said they were:

Glenn Greenwald's partner detained at Heathrow airport for nine hours

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/18/glenn-greenwald-guardian-partner-detained-heathrow

returning from a trip to Berlin when he was stopped by officers at 8.05am and informed that he was to be questioned under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000. The controversial law, which applies only at airports, ports and border areas, allows officers to stop, search, question and detain individuals.

The 28-year-old was held for nine hours, the maximum the law allows before officers must release or formally arrest the individual. According to official figures, most examinations under schedule 7 – over 97% – last under an hour, and only one in 2,000 people detained are kept for more than six hours.

Miranda was released, but officials confiscated electronics equipment including his mobile phone, laptop, camera, memory sticks, DVDs and games consoles.

And people wonder why some of us don't trust the government with control of our healthcare.

[daddy]

From TM: Just to belabor the obvious - if President Bush were backing this sort of murderous crackdown in 2007, Candidate Obama would be railing against it.

And to belabor the just as obvious, once this SOB is out of office he is no more going to respect the tradition that former Presidents generally keep their mouths shut than he is when disrespecting the Office when he's in power. The Clinton's Media allies may be able to shut him up if Hillary wins, but if a Republican wins, this jackass resume polisher is going to be dissing every move a Republican president makes in order to make himself look not so sucky and to harm his enemies.