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August 23, 2013

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Threadkiller

I will procrastinate later today.

NK

It appears that the family Maguire may be back from the open road vaca. Hope it was a good time off with the family.

Threadkiller

A hot tub time machine?

Jane

Well delay may help the democrats in 2014 - and that will screw up my reams of impeachment in 2015.

steve

I'm not either approach is going to yield a positive result. Obama is just as likely to force a shutdown over a delay as he would a defunding. His media accomplices would depict the shutdown as a result of overzealous, fanatical conservatives in the House (as opposed to the sane, bi-partisan Senate). McCain and a few other nominal Republicans would help Obama by disparaging the GOP. Someone in the pro-delay camp would say something stupid, giving ammunition to the argument that the GOP is led by selfish, racist, sexist pigs. And eventually, the GOP would fold.

It doesn't matter which strategy the GOP goes with if they're not going in with their act together. They have yet to deal with Obama as Obama is rather than the Obama they wish he was. And I don't see things changing this time around.

jimmyk

Well delay may help the democrats in 2014

Yeah, part of me says "inflict the whole thing as written," so that it can be seen as the disaster that it really is. But it seems that Barry has asserted the divine right to pick and choose what parts can be implemented, so we may as well "see that and raise it" to total delay. But it's important to make that as humiliating as possible to the Dems, not a bipartisan effort.

Captain Hate on an iPhone

steve's final paragraph is the clearest statement of the dilemma of supporting the GOP that I've seen. Boehner et al persist in regarding the Indonesian (add to glossary) as an adult who will negotiate with them despite there being no evidence supporting that.

21_cathyf_vs_tripep@d_99

They need to add a few things to the delaying --

1) Remove The Secretary's authority to mandate coverage of any contraceptive or abortifacient drug.

2) Remove The Secretary's authority to mandate that any drug be covered without co-pay, and remove The Secretary's authority to mandate that any drug have the same co-pay for generics and brand-name drugs.

3) Put an expiration on the "no pre-existing condition" mandate -- tell people that if they are not signed up for health care by Jan 1, 2015, then they no longer have guaranteed issue. From that day forward, only people who are covered by insurance with no lapses are guaranteed issue. (In other words, return to the 1997 regime.)

4) Go through records and find the most reasonably-priced reasonable-coverage insurance plan from, say, 1998 (when Clinton was president, and right after health-care portability was enacted). It will be in the state that had the most reasonable health insurance regulation in 1998, and it will be a high-deductible + MSA + no-drugs plan for sure. Take the whole contract and insert it in the bill and say THIS is the minimal allowed insurance and every exchange must offer it, and any person covered by this plan is covered for the purpose of portability of coverage for pre-existing conditions. Of course MSA's must come back for that to work, and this will supersede state laws where in some states the state insurance commissions require all sorts of expensive fluff.

The point that needs to be made is that we HAD a system, built up over many years of learning, which had some specific successes in controlling health care costs while still having constant medical advances, and the Obama Administration is using Obamacare as a tool to annihilate those exact things!

James D.

It doesn't matter which strategy the GOP goes with if they're not going in with their act together. They have yet to deal with Obama as Obama is rather than the Obama they wish he was.

In my optimistic (well, less pessimistic) moments, I tell myself that at least some of the GOP leadership gets this, and knows exactly what Zero is, and their public statements and tactics are just playing to the LIVs and posturing for a hostile MSM, but behind closed doors their strategies take the real Zero into account.

It's pretty difficult to make myself believe that, though.

Account Deleted

jimmyk,

BOzo was reacting to businesses cutting hours and his reaction has had a null effect to date. I believe businesses in general will not absorb the premium increases which will hit group plans, regardless of whether the individual mandate is postponed. The current economic malaise and employment situation dictates companies to pass the cost increases to employees and direct employees to send complaints to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

I would prefer to see a graceful loss over delay than a silly loss over a shutdown.

Captain Hate on an iPhone

James D, they may realize it but they haven't figured out an effective way to deal with it.

Jane

"But it seems that Barry has asserted the divine right to pick and choose what parts can be implemented'

Is all of the $$ for Obamacare already in barry's pocketbook?

jimmyk

I would prefer to see a graceful loss over delay than a silly loss over a shutdown.

Yes, though I was comparing it to the Full Monty strategy of insisting on implementing the whole piece of c**p on time and in full, as written.

I'm not as convinced of the axiom that Republicans invariably get the blame for a shutdown--that seems to be MSM wishful thinking and top men instincts. But it might not be worth the risk.

Account Deleted

jimmyk,

It's an issue of timing for me. I'd prefer a shutdown fight to occur around March, when the full negative impact of BOzocare has sunk in and the electorate is primed for reprisal.

NK

JimmyK-- 'worth the risk' where do you fight using the shutdown? The voter polls are best for repubs over the debt Ceiling. NOBODY likes the $17T debt-- Boehner will first hold a vote on UNCONDITIONALLY raising the debtlimit--all House repubs and at least 30 dems will vote against (80 did in 2011), then he'll twist arms to get TP conservatives to agree to modest spending cuts and ObummerCare 1 year delay and NO NEW HHS/IRS regs/waivers for 1 year. Then let the Obamaniacs refuse that and the shutdown occurs because of debt persuadable voters hate. This is all a Debt fight-- that's where the repubs have the most leverage.

James D.

I'd prefer a shutdown fight to occur around March, when the full negative impact of BOzocare has sunk in and the electorate is primed for reprisal.

How about the second week in April? Right when people are filling out their already-overly-complex tax forms and in some cases writing checks to the government?

21_cathyf_vs_tripep@d_99

Also, the delay bill must contain every waiver that Obama has already granted. Then you get the constitutional crisis when Obama tries to execute the delays that he vetoed.

21_cathyf_vs_tripep@d_99

...but you don't want the shutdown to interfere with people getting their refunds -- maybe late April?

Ignatz

The GOP will not let a shutdown occur.

NK

Ig-- easy with that. I think the House Repubs will not cause a 'shutdown' they'll pass CRs and debt extensions-- CONDITIONALLY, Senate Dems/Obummer will be the one who refuse to meet the 'reasonable' conditions. A shut down could happen-- Dems control 2/3rds of Gov't-- Repubs have to be careful and pass extensions with conditions that their base and persuadables like. Difference from '95?-- Obummer needs to fund ObummerCare-- so he needs to cave where Clinton didn't have to. (Plus no Newt bombast.)

Ignatz

Let me amend my 12:54:

The GOP is too chicken to allow a shutdown to occur.

If they are not too chicken they will mismanage it horrendously, regardless of who the players are now.

Army of Davids

If they go w/ this they should try to pair it w/ something else House Democrats badly want and avoid the government shutdown attachement....even though this is not 95 and the government is not nearly as popular...it still gives more members political cover.


Many House Democrats would prefer the delay. Some 22 voted for the delay when it came up for vote earlier in the House...paired w/ the 35 or so who voted for the one year delay to officially institute into law the business mandate delay. Both died on Harry Reid's desk.

Army of Davids

An ObamaCare disaster rollout doesn't mean ObamaCare subsidies go away.

Heck we have a god awful economy, phony IRS/NSA/Benghazi/AP/Rozen scandals, $Trillions in new debt and yet FORWARD we go.

ObamaCare is a disaster on so many fronts (fiscal, employment, quality of care). It polls very poorly (especially the individual mandate).

The GOP needs to grow a pair and make a stand. AT A CERTAIN POINT FEAR OF THE NEXT ELECTION HAS TO TAKE A BACK SEAT TO THE ACTUAL STATE OF THE COUNTRY!!

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