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August 11, 2013


Cecil Turner

Seems to me that most of the analyses of the US-Soviet impasse in Europe place too little emphasis on the fact that the Soviets had a much larger army. Biggest reason the US didn't challenge Soviet control: we couldn't.

Cecil Turner

Radosh responded more than once, I think the pertinent one is here.


People forget the genesis of the war between communism and democracy. The hatred of communism for religion; the strength of communist/socialist principles in the union movement.

The depths of some of the depressions and the rise of the barons.There were real issues that required solutions.

In 1918 -21 the Red Scare was real. Workers were in the streets and read of the Russian Revolution. The Wobblies had been around since the early 1900's I believe and before that the farmers and workers unions all seeking nationalization of this and that.

The was a deep and valid concern for American democracy.Today the same wars are being played out by a more academic and deceptive enemy. It is no longer workers, but takers versus producers.

Most people would be happy to have a decent job, but once they mainline someone on entitlements or other forms of social blackmail, it is like trying to get off heroin.


Sorry TK, I'm about to run out for a bit. I believe he made his initial critique on Frontpage, then on PJ Media and on the latter he issued his response to her reply.



I am going to go there somewhat in book in addition to bits and pieces on blog. And I am quite sure. Multiple sources.

Virtually everything controversial in ed was imported from there and Mao was an expressed admirer of John Dewey. That's not in book but I have that from other sources that he began reading him in his 20s. And globally the educators knew we were about to use ed to try to invisible change the West's collective consciousness by going after enough individual ones via education.

Also UNESCO was supposed to be neutral but from the beginning its mission statement was built around the socialist view of the mind. That's why its very existence was a weapon against the West. I talk now about Ehrlich and Holdren wanting to achieve conscious evolution by changing culture but that is just a continuation of what UNESCO started.

In the book I explain a whole lot of pertinent info that no one has ever put together before but it is multiple sources on every crucial point. Usually insider's own words.

I am having lunch with Iserbyt tomorrow which means I may know even more by Tuesday on this whole topic that I am willing to talk about in a public forum.


Thanks for the link Cecil.

Their comment section is fun. Too bad Radosh does not have Clarice's moxy.

She is responding to her reader's criticism. Radosh is not.

Thomas Collins

Clarice and CT, thanks for the additional updates on Radosh responding to West. And thanks, rse, for the thoughts on propanganda and education. I'm looking forward to what you can make public.


Chock full o' links:





Something I don't talk about TC but have mulled over a great deal in my mind is all the troubling places McNamara shows up at.

Another interesting detail is long after I had put together what had happened for sure in the 80s, I came across Harry Boyte who was a major inspirer of bo choosing community organizing putting himself and his work into the 80s story without realizing I had the rest of it. It was a mercy me moment but that happens when you are on the right track. The info pours out because no one is being careful about what they are admitting to because they assume only fellow travelers read their stuff.


Has this been edited?



Edited? Why make shit up when the D does all the making?



(A) nuther Bub

As someone who has read, followed and long admired all three -- West, Radosh and Horowitz -- it's enormously discouraging to observe the juvenile smears driving their current "conversation." Each is doing himself great damage, I think. I will not be able to view any of them with the same regard I once had.


Would you consider Clarice's column to be juvenile as well, (A) bub?

Should she have stayed out of the fray?


This dustup is serving as a nice distraction and relief from...well, you know. :)


It is a relief to not deal with fake controversies.



Like this one:


Jack is Back!


Ray Floyd has 2 sons - Ray, Jr. and Robert - who both look more like him than Dufner:). Robert is a broker but damn good golfer. Used to be on tour as was Ray, Jr. Ray has a house in Southampton and. is a member at Shinnecock. I see them all quite a bit when there,

What Dufner needs from Ray is his short game and killer instinct.


Every question in every poll ever done, Ranger, has a "don't know/no opinion" response category, even if the question is "Have you been to a fast-food restaurant in the past month?"

True to some extent, but some polls such as Gallup make it an explicit choice when they ask the question, and others, such as Ras usually don't, they push the respondent to choose either approve or disapprove by not giving them the third option. The fact that significantly more people are choosing disapprove rather than not sure seems significant at this point. In just the last couple of weeks the chunk of "not sure" has almost disappeared in Gallup, and pretty much all of that has gone to disapprove.

Danube on iPad

Re TK's 4:06--The Zullo affidavit says not a worrd about the certid copy of Obama's birth certificate displayed on April 27, 2011, nor of the photocopies of that same document distributed to the press at the same time. Zullo talks exclusively about the pdf. So far as I am aware, in their relentless quest for the truth the Cold Case Posse has not sought to interview a single member of the press who was present on that occasion to inquire about what they saw.

Since this thread otherwise contains an interesting discussion of the West-Radosh dispute, I'll let it go at that.


McNamara does have this Evil Zelig quality, he managed a war he didn't believe in, not actually considering the enemy, then became 'sugar daddy'
to every thug and princeling, at the World Bank.

Stephenson, in his epic Cryptonimicon, uses a McNamara manque, part of his long running Comstock dynasy with an interesting explanation of why he conducted the war.


If the press has seen a $100.00 bill flashed before their eyes, they are experts on the construction of a digital image of a $100.00 bill.

They must be interviewed.

Account Deleted

"is all the troubling places McNamara shows up at"


He had hands on experience in WWII with the totalitarian methodology previously employed by Austria and the US in WWI. I've never seen any indication he understood the complete implications involving the application of totalitarian methodology as elucidated by Mises and Hayek. I'm not sure he would have been troubled by the implications had he understood them, given the training he received from Mr. "any color you want, so long as it's black" himself.

Today's bathhouse billionaires show the same remarkable lack of foresight as they tinker with socialist media as a political tool.

(A) nuther Bub

Should she have stayed out of the fray?

Clarice could never be juvenile, that goes without saying. I probably would have stayed out of the fray, but that's why no one has asked me to be a columnist and Clarice is such a respected and widely read one. Clearly, by the number of comments -- many of them pretty high strung -- the topic isn't a bore.

I'm just embarrassed on behalf of the principals, whose bad behavior is so unexpected to me. Of course scholars can take issue with an opposing view, but it normally doesn't descend to the mockery and snark being exhibited during the past few days. I'd prefer to see that left up to the libs.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

I'm with (A)Bub in this dust up but am heartened that we can all join in considering McNamara an insufferable ass.

Danube on iPad

"If the press has seen a $100.00 bill flashed before their eyes, they are experts on the construction of a digital image of a $100.00 bill."

You're afraid to face the issue, as is Zullo. The people who were there have not talked about the pdf, nor pretended to have any expertise about it, as you know very well.; They have talked about the certified copy. It was not "flashed before their eyes"; they were allowed to handle it (and in one case photograph it) and feel the raised seal, and they were given photocopies of it. Zullo won't talk to them because to do so would expose the whole game of three-card Monty those frauds have been playing with credulous sympathizers.

Why did you raise that issue again? Do you ever get tired of it?


It is juvenile to get in a fight like this.

It is not juvenile to scream: "Fight! Fight!"

"It should come as no surprise that West has apparently swallowed the Arpaio birther hoax whole.

Posted by: Danube of Thought | August 11, 2013 at 10:16 AM


A witness to a photocopy of a $100.00 bill would expose the truth behind a digital image of a $100.00 bill.

The scam is undone...





Danube on iPad

"A witness to a photocopy of a $100.00 bill would expose the truth behind a digital image of a $100.00 bill."

A witness to a photocopy of a $100 bill could testify under oath that every piece of information on it, from the value to the serial number to the pictures was identical to that in the image of the$100 bill. In the case of the b/c, that is the crucial issue, and that is why you and the Posse ignore it altogether. If the info on the pdf is the same as that on the original (as Alvin Onaka has established), then as a legal matter the pdf is not a forgery no matter how it was created.

This might explain why Arpaio has declined to present any of his nonsense to a grand jury.

Caro's iPad

Jane mentioned Norway's goats. I was told this particular one is named "Clinton."

Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Can't the PGA start tossing some of the jackholes in the gallery who scream "in the hole" and other inane look-at-me twaddle? Augusta promptly rolls those clowns.


Having read Europa Central, and having skimmed Bloodlands, the author of which escapes me, really, I realize there couldn't be a good end to that whole sad period, from Stostakovich to Hildegarde Lange, from Vlasov who was more a fool then a knave to his German counterpart.

(A) nuther Bub

True to some extent, but some polls such as Gallup make it an explicit choice when they ask the question, and others, such as Ras usually don't,

Ranger, I'd be grateful if you'd give me a link to the questionnaire. I've spent the past half hour going over Gallup's sites and cannot find any reproduction of the survey document they use for their presidential approval/disapproval rankings.

If you saw the questions yourself, then I surely believe you are reporting correctly, but it would be most unusual for the interviewer to offer the respondent the "Don't know" choice. I've run the polls in my home state for all the big national outfits and have never seen that done. I'm extremely curious about the matter.


They need shock collars and possibly cattle prods, Captain, back in the Star Wars cantina, Clyburn insists on campaigning on Obamacare, you begin to gather how Alvin Greene thought he had a shot.

Danube on iPad

I have suggested to my buddy on the USGA board that there be a rule that anybody who shouts "get in the hole" be immediately escorted from the course. He loves the idea.


And there isn't enough fighting in the war roon, so i'll add this;



In case anyone failed to read Prof herf's analsis linke in the article, Here is it. It adds to Radosh's claims that West has exceeded the evidence in making her most sensational charges:http://frontpagemag.com/2013/jeffrey-herf/diana-west-vs-history/#.UgT8Vp2TvDs.facebook


Actually, my experience comes from answering the polls personally a few times. For some reason for about 2 years I got phone polled regularly by lots of companies, and Ras and Gallup in particular.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

How did you like Europa Central, narc?


I found it very interesting, like is a tricky area, considering the subject matter, that's more reserved for 'Secret History' or the latest
one by Corby, set in the Olympics right before the outbreak of the Pelopennessian war.


Quiz Time!

From the Christian Science Monitor:

Are you scientifically literate? Take our quiz of 50 Questions

I beat the reader average of 68%, but not by much---72% percent. (36 correct/14 wrong) Simply shameful:(


I hope a lot of people are paying attention to the West-Radosh-FP feud - maybe curious enough to do some personal research. Tyranny's only a step away if the citizens never sense its encroachment.

Obama cut his teeth on communist-socialist philosophies. Hopefully a few million out of work LIV's will put the puzzle pieces together and join the revolt.


Pop worked for McNamara and did not like him and his clique in the least. Very top down driven and you were either in or out of his circle. He was a worm.

Thomas Collins

Glad to see that Furyk, Stenson and Blixt are in the process of making Dufner sweat a little. I like it when the 17th and 18th are sweat sessions, not coronation ceremonies.


Ted Cruz, Peter King or Sarah Palin? Who would put Peter King in that sentence? Jazz Shaw. Ok, I'll remember that.

Thomas Collins

If that last shot is an indication, Dufner is not wilting.



Captain Hate on the iPhone

Annnnnd on cue Furyk shows his irritation with the fan antics.

Jack is Back!


LOL. Duf is throwing darts and those guys hammers. But 17 and 18 are bears for holes. But Duf won't let Furyk in the door even when its wide open.

I'm with Duf - too many great par saving putts that could have been disaster.

Jane -May2014 Be there or Be Square

Love the goat Caro. I hope you post more pix.


A multilayer pdf of a $100.00 bill is not a forgery if its information is consistent with a photocopy of a $100.00 bill.

It is the same as cash money if a letter is sent to you claiming the information on the pdf matches information on a $100.00 bill kept in a vault.


Late to Clarice's topic.

Can't comment knowledgeably on the Radish/West particulars, but last week I finished a decent book on the Anzio Campaign in WW2 which is somewhat related to the topic of the Soviets in WW2.

Anzio (where my pop was), was a replay of Churchill's "soft underbelly of Europe" strategy from Gallipoli and WW1 all over again. The Anzio campaign was about 90 percent Churchill's baby, and would not have gone down without him personally pressuring FDR and Ike into drawing off troops from the planned France D-Day Invasion and sending them on an ill conceived and under-supported landing in western Italy.

Churchill was intent on operations in the Mediterranean Theater, as that was an area of such importance to the British Empire and their holdings. The Brit author sited some contemporary correspondence indicating that Churchill was not really interested in attacking the germans via a France Invasion at all---he wanted to do it completely from the south up thru Italy and southern France.

FDR was uninterested in the Med campaign, nor was Ike, both considering that the proposed D-Day western France landing attacking Germany from the West was far preferable to slugging up the mountainous, easily defended backbone of Italy as the avenue to reach the Germans.

When Stalin came onboard, he likewise could not have cared less about operations in the Med, outside of it pinning down some German armies, and keeping them out of action in the northern Theater of ops.

So Stalin, Ike and FDR were sort of on the same page of where and how to take the fight to the Germans, with Churchill the odd man out. Stalin wanted the Western France landing of D-Day, quick as possible, not Churchill's slog up the italian peninsula.

Unfortunately FDR somewhat acquiesced to Churchill's plan, but due to the necessity of keeping the main body of assets readied for the French D-Day Invasion, the Anzio landing was launched with inadequate supply lines and men, so that an effective breakout was not attempted, and Kesselring brought in his German Divisions and outstanding artillery to horrible, horrible effect on the Allies.

Anyhow, I simply mention that show that tactically FDR and Stalin were on the same page about how to fight the germans, and Churchill was the fly in the ointment, and Churchill wasn't gumming up the works because of anti-Communisy reasons---he was gumming up the works because of his England's particular interests in the Mediterranean.

I think it's worth having some of that in the back of one's head when authors (neither of whom I have read) are apparently arguing whether or not FDR was doing Stalin's bidding due to Soviet conspiracies.

I suspect Matt knows way more than I do about the Italian campaign than I do and I'd be glad to here from Matt if he thinks I'm off base on what I've said about Churchill above.

Danube on iPad

Pay close attention here; this is the crux of the matter:

--If I hand you a photocopy of a $100 bill and ask you to give me five 20's in return, i.e. if I represent it to be the real thing, I have committed the crime of passing counterfeit money.

--If I tell you a pdf contains the same information (serial number, etc.) as is on a real $100 bill kept in a vault, no crime has occurred.

A multilayer pdf of a $100 bill is not a forgery (or counterfeit) if it is represented to be a pdf of a $100 bill. And even the Arpaio people no longer contend that the mere presence of layers in a pdf establishes that it is not a genuine image of an original paper document.

Jack is Back!


This all started year's ago and has been tolerated by the tour and the PGA.

You don't it too much in USGA events with the exception of the Open when at Bethpage (natch!)!

Problem your buddy has is no influence with the Tour. It's up to the PGA and the Tour to do a better job of fan discipline. Having that doofus Bubba Watson encourage everyone at the last Ryder Cup to cheer on the first tee drives didn't help.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Great performance by Duf after the disappointment of a year ago.


If I tell you the pdf is an exact copy of the original, and it is not, what then?

This image:

would be construed as an image of a $100.00 bill. It could accurately be stated that information on this image matches an actual $100.00 bill.

However, it would be misleading to say it is a direct copy of a $100.00 bill


daddy, I tried the test and got 82%. Turns out I am lousy at astronomy (not surprising).

Thomas Collins

Dufner just ended the hopes of those who like the leader of a major to come apart. Hats off to Mr. Dufner.

Yes, I know in theory he could four putt, but not gonna happen.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Make that 2 years ago

Thomas Collins

Tap in. Done! Ben Hogan must be tipping his hat in Heaven to the thirtysomething who uses him as a model.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

A bonus of Duf winning is having the spotlight on his hawt wife.

Jack is Back!


Have you ever thought about changing your userid to DeadHorseKicker?

Danube on iPad

"However, it would be misleading to say it is a direct copy of a $100.00 bill"

Not if the copying process caused the irregularities. And in any event, falsely claiming it to be a "direct copy" might be misleading but it is not a crime.


Meanwhile this washes up in my fishwrap;



A multilayer pdf of a $100.00 bill is not a forgery if its information is consistent with a photocopy of a $100.00 bill.

It is the same as cash money if a letter is sent to you claiming the information on the pdf matches information on a $100.00 bill kept in a vault.

Posted by: Threadkiller | August 11, 2013 at 06:26 PM

I don't usually read these, but that was a good one.

Rob Crawford

When ya'll get done flogging the expired equine, let me know and I'll drop by. Of course, I figure either the country will have fallen or we'll be inaugurating president Malia Obama before then.


In 2008, in response to media inquiries, the President’s campaign requested his $100.00 bill from the state of Hawaii. The state sent the campaign the President’s $100.00 bill the same legal tender provided to all Hawaiians in exchange for five $20.00 bills, and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet. That $100.00 bill can be seen here."


Captain Hate on the iPhone

I would like to thank Amanda Dufner for wearing white for her time on national television.


--Can't the PGA start tossing some of the jackholes in the gallery who scream "in the hole"--

If granted immunity I will gladly join the tour as official sniper just to plink a few of those morons.


Now there was more grounds for the Hopkins identification, of Zamestiel, rather then this ill considered second front, with the Stauffenberg faction,


Interesting DrJ.

Astronomy was my shining moment, whereas it was Ohm's and Hertz's and Chem stuff like whatever the heck Ch4 is that done me in:)


Cool Bear video and excellent music. So break dancing is what they do when we're not watching! BTW, the local hiking trail is still closed where the 500-600 pound grizzly carcass was left a week ago. Raining to day but now I'm off to flattop with the Labs. As usual, they could not care less that it's raining.


Thank you for posting that very thought provoking Pieces. I second A(B) completely:

Clarice could never be juvenile, that goes without saying. I probably would have stayed out of the fray, but that's why no one has asked me to be a columnist and Clarice is such a respected and widely read one.


Insty so far has not published my letter to him about your stand on the American Cancer Society. I wish he would, and I also wish the Powerline folks would as well, especially since you sited Eliana Johnson right up front. Great to see you posting fairly regularly again. We need to share a Musabi one of these days. Say "Hey" to Rom and feral cat Obama!"

Dog walk time. Bye.


--When ya'll get done flogging the expired equine, let me know and I'll drop by.--

My apologies for my earlier comment tempting fate.


I would like to thank Amanda Dufner for wearing white for her time on national television.

Pic please.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Anybody up for catching the meteor shower tonight? It's pretty clear with low humidity here so I'll see what I can see Otherwise I'll just fixate on the heavenly body of Amanda Dufner.


well this is the quickest I come up with on short notice;


I even review myself when there is nothing better to do

Heh, I haven't read West or Radosh, only Clarice and commenters, but of course, my meta-review is the best when one recognizes that, like other insufferable know-it-alls, here, my grammar doesn't rise to kindergarten level either.


Posted by: I even review myself when there's nothing better to do. | August 11, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Danube on iPad

Well, Ext., I hope you read my response.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Sorry, ext, but I'm having a hard time doing anything with this mobile device.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Thanks narc although those pics don't show the two very nice reasons to cheer for Jason.

Danube on iPad

"The state sent the campaign the President’s $100.00 bill the same legal tender provided to all Hawaiians in exchange for five $20.00 bills, and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet."

This is incoherent. To what are the five $20 bills analogous? More important, what do you think would be wrong in doing precisely that, if the issue was whether the president had a $100 bill in Hawaii?


80%, Daddy, and I know that on an even average day you'd score better than I would. A hard test to take and not get bored. Big Bang Theory kept drawing my attention.

Army of Davids

It's Sunday

so let me beat this into the ground

headwinds for business hiring in ObamaCare

- new regulatory compliance costs
- new taxes
- mandates
- implicit uncertainty
- higher healthcare costs (especially for younger/healthier employees)


Well how about this;


4JackisBack!2 (On His iPhone)

Will take test wine-free, thank you:)

But getting back to Amanda. Still don't many wives whowi kiss their guy full on if he has a wad of Copenhagen under the lower lip. That win has to be worth a million in endorsements just from them:)


If the image looks like the one in my 6:52 post then this would be a misleading statement:

"and the campaign immediately posted it on the internet. That $100.00 bill can be seen here."

Danube on iPad

"Pop worked for McNamara and did not like him and his clique in the least."

So did mine, as J-3 of the Joint Staff, 1964-67. He hated him--an invincibly ignorantfool who wouldn't listen to anyone.


TK's link at 02:41!

"Barack Obama and his publisher had not thought to collect such endorsements."

IMO, there is not a chance that the publisher could have collected a legitimate endorsement.


Danube on iPad

Ext., to clarify, a pdf of a $100 bill is never as good as cash money, and there is nothing wrong with having one as long as you don't try to pass it off as anything other than a pdf of a $100 bill.

If I grasp TK's 7:21, the point he is missing is that each piece of legal tender used by the people of Hawaii has a unique serial number. Just as Obama's b/c does, along with unique names including his own. No one else in Hawaii has that.

Thomas Collins

OK, I'll solve this. DOT, send me a real hundred dollar bill. TK, send me five real twenties. I'll email both of you pdfs of the bills and post pictures on Pinterest, and you can edit and photoshop them in various ways to support your positions. Happy to donate my time to this inquiry.


Looks like the clouds are moving out Capt., so I may brave the 40 degrees it's going to drop to tonight and go out on the dock and see what I can see.
The last time I did that it was a warm, balmy night, I was 20-some years younger, we took inner tubes down and laid across them and watched a fabulous light show--more than a meteor a minute


--(36 correct/14 wrong) Simply shameful:(-

Let me join you in hanging my head exactly as much, daddy.
Missed five or six super easy ones.

Thomas Collins

Anyone else who wants me to volunteer my services should feel free to send me real tens, fives, ones, hundreds, etcetera. Noone has to pay me for my time. I'll invest the funds for the participants' benefit in an Al Gore/Bernie Madoff certified lockbox.


If a document contains a unique serial number, the number 100, and a picture of Franklin, that document could be said to have the same information as a locked away $100.00 bill.

That is not the same as saying the document is a direct image of a locked away $100.00 bill.


pdf bucks are on there way, TC!




78 here... Got bored and didn't read a couple questions balanced by lucky guesses on a couple others.

Account Deleted

Shouldn't Diane West's effort be treated as a polemic, similar to Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism rather than serious history? Goldberg's subtitle was The Secret History... but I don't recall it being treated as such and I have certainly never regarded it as such.

I hope the "controversy" sells a lot of books and draws more attention to Horowitz and Radosh. I don't see the publicity as being particularly damaging to anyone.

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