Warming Up

The next round of IPCC reports on climate change will take an even less equivocal position on anthropogenic global warming:

Climate Panel Cites Near Certainty on Warming

By JUSTIN GILLIS

An international panel of scientists has found with near certainty that human activity is the cause of most of the temperature increases of recent decades, and warns that sea levels could conceivably rise by more than three feet by the end of the century if emissions continue at a runaway pace.

The scientists, whose findings are reported in a draft summary of the next big United Nations climate report, largely dismiss a recent slowdown in the pace of warming, which is often cited by climate change doubters, attributing it most likely to short-term factors.

The report emphasizes that the basic facts about future climate change are more established than ever, justifying the rise in global concern. It also reiterates that the consequences of escalating emissions are likely to be profound.

“It is extremely likely that human influence on climate caused more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature from 1951 to 2010,” the draft report says. “There is high confidence that this has warmed the ocean, melted snow and ice, raised global mean sea level and changed some climate extremes in the second half of the 20th century.”

...

The 2007 report found “unequivocal” evidence of warming, but hedged a little on responsibility, saying the chances were at least 90 percent that human activities were the cause. The language in the new draft is stronger, saying the odds are at least 95 percent that humans are the principal cause.

I wonder whether this will change anyone's mind about the underlying reality or the appropriate response. The Times provides this incomplete taxonomy:

Some climate doubters challenge the idea that the earth is warming at all; others concede that it is, but deny human responsibility; still others acknowledge a human role, but assert that the warming is likely to be limited and the impacts manageable. Every major scientific academy in the world has warned that global warming is a serious problem.

Hmm, what do the Times consider those of us who think that, whether the climate impact is manageable or not, the proposed remediations are too expensive, insufficient, and, since China and India have not been on board, incomplete? On the question of China, this report is interesting - higher sea levels will hit China hard.

When greens back nuclear (esp. thorium) and the substitution of fracked natural gas for coal I will believe that they believe we have a global warming crisis.

Comments

[henry]

It is extremely likely that human influence on climate caused more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature from 1951 to 2010,

60 years out of several thousand years of at least verbal records, and the cooling of the past 13 years is too short a time frame? If one is too short, so is the other.

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

These numbnuts have killed the scientific method.

[Beasts of England]

I think I've made similar a comment before, but it's worth repeating. My old career brought me in contact with, among other, the chief scientist of space sciences with NASA. Smart guy (obviously). We discussed the topic over a beer or three one night and his summary was paraphrased thusly 'If these folks are truly worried about CO2, then why aren't they embracing nuclear power.' I about fell of my barstool. As I said, he's a smart guy...

And as to the claim of consensus, please read the works of Spencer and Christie from UAH. Remote sensing climate experts. They are skeptics because they are true scientists. The data simply aren't there. Additionally, anytime someone claims that one variable is causal, the regression analysis is pretty damned simple. The results of those analyses also don't support anthropogenic nor anthropomorphic warming.

Anecdotally, it's cold as shit in August in Alabama. Case closed.

[Danube on iPad]

A major problem is that the source is the UN. I am skeptical about anything they say on any subject.

[narciso]

Well they got it wrong last time what are the odds;

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/19/ipcc-caught-with-an-old-uncorrected-error-in-new-ar5-report/

[NK]

WattsUpWithThat--WUWT (where rse comments) is fantastic this week on this very subject about the '95% solution'. the IPCC is getting hysterical, they are using 1950s Madison Avenue marketing techniques -- 95% Certain!
Go to WUWT, fabulous resource on this topic (no offense Tom.)

[Captain Hate on an iPhone]

Yes Beasts, the nuclear tone deafness gets them every time; especially regarding those electric cars.

[rich@gmu]

It was 64 degrees earlier this morning in my slice of heaven.

[lyle]

So, Mr. Scientists, that humongous, gaseous orange ball that our rock orbits around has no effect on our weather? But CO2, what is essentially a trace element (in comparison to all the others in our atmosphere), does? And so what if we ARE warming? There are no, zero, zippo salutary effects of warmer climates? Really?

So what happens if all us earthlings do stop emitting CO2, what about the next volcano eruption? And just for the hell of it, just what exactly is the "correct" temperature of the earth's climate?

[Beasts of England]

NK@3:21 - I'd love to see their 95% coefficient of correlation! Hell, I'd love to see one at the 60th percentile. They can't do it, because the data aren't there. What a bunch of turds...

Capt. Hate@3:27 - One of my liberal friends bought an electric car (hybrid). I asked her how the electric was generated. Heh.

[lyle]

Oh, and forget volcanos for a sec. What about wild fires? We need to stop them as well. So I propose banning thunderstorms and lightning.

[narciso]

volcanoes, tsunami's hurricanes, we are arrogant to believe we have control over any of it.

[NK]

BoE-- see, there you go hitting the IPCC with math and data. That's not the point, the IPCC is all about the MARKETING, to get more $$$ and power for their UN/EU bureaucrat masters. But if you do fancy a discussion about climate stats and data, check out WUWT, the Site and commenters go into mind numbing detail.

[MarkO now being monitered by the NSA on this site]

In the age of the Great Narcissist, it makes sense to think that mankind can control the climate. Obama, himself, is going to halt the rising of the sea. The conceit of this group is limitless.

[narciso]

Maybe this explains it'

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/20/nyts-top-editor-denies-paper-has-liberal-bias-we-have-a-cosmopolitan-outlook/

[Ignatz]

If drilling holes in the bottom of the boat doesn't seem to be helping with the buoyancy problem the obvious solution is to calculate that you are now 95% certain that drilling more and bigger holes is the solution.

[Ignatz]

--Every major scientific academy in the world has warned that global warming is a serious problem.--

Is that claim footnoted or a citation given?

[Beasts of England]

Ig@3:59 - 'Top men.'

[The United Nations.]

Every major scientific academy in the world has warned that global warming is a serious problem [1][2].

1. Because we say so.

2. Would we lie?

[Beasts of England]

3. Nancy Pelosi.

[Rob Crawford]

Every major scientific academy in the world has warned that global warming is a serious problem.

A meaningless statement, because science is not determined by arguing from "authority". The AGW claims have been falsified; to continue to cite them is to admit you're not doing science.

[matt]

The distance from the street to the high tide mark where I live has remained fairly constant for the past 20-30 years. Where is all of that extra water that is flooding in?

lyle, that is very, very frightening.

[Danube on iPad]

"just what exactly is the 'correct' temperature of the earth's climate?"

That's easy. It's whatever it was when Al Gore was a young boy.

[Rick Ballard]

"Is that claim footnoted or a citation given?"

Russian Academy of Sciences

“Global warming is coming to an end: In the coming years the temperature over the entire planet will fall and the cooling will provide a character of relief. This is the conclusion reached by Russian scientists from the Physics University of the Russian Academy of Science.

The process of a general temperature decrease has already begun, according to the research. After having peaked in 2005, the average temperature on Earth is now returning to the level of the 1996-1997 years, 0.3°C lower.

According to the scientists, global temperatures will fall another 0.15°C by 2015, which corresponds to the climate of the early 1980s.”

I suppose "every" could be construed as "most" but if we toss in India and China, "many" would probably be more accurate.

Now, if we construe "every" to apply to a universe of those institutions funded in part by air taxes, then it could very well be a perfect fit.

[Old Lurker]

Just listening to Howie Carr interview the writer of a Cato report (see LUN) which documents that a mother with two kids in MA receives $42,500 in benefits on average and would have to earn $50,500 pre tax to net the equivalent. Cato does the math in all 50 states and DC. As he describes, since going to work incurs other expenses too, the real "why should I work" point is actually much higher than $50,500 for that welfare mom.

Think we have created a monster in this country?

[daddy]

I don’t think a photograph from five years ago will be an issue in a primary that’s driven, as almost all Republican primaries have been, by electability over ideology.”

No of course not. It's ridiculous to think that a photo could cause significant problems for a Presidential Candidate.

[narciso]

Has there been an instance in recent history, 10,000 years, where the seas have risen by 3 feet.

[narciso]

How did Dennis Miller, put it, he described it as 'Joannie and Chacchi;

[JIB]

narciso,

I take it you never saw An Inconvenient Lie/Truth/Fib/Making it up/Science Fiction/?

[jimmyk]

1. Because we say so.

2. Would we lie?

3. Shut up.

[matt]

sometime way back the Greek flood, the Gilgamesh flood and the Biblical flood and the Chinese flood myths all had an source, narciso. Most of the literature say it was within the past 4,000 years. To me, at least it is a given that there was an epic flood.

The myth crosses cultures and spans a huge part of the world.

[narciso]

I know D,C, was underwater 80,000 years ago, but the record is weaker after that.

[Old Lurker]

I think I recall that mean sea levels were about 100M lower than present 20,000 years ago.

[Dave (in MA)]

It still is, metaphorically.

[Old Lurker]

DC is still under water today, Narc.

[Rob Crawford]

sometime way back the Greek flood, the Gilgamesh flood and the Biblical flood and the Chinese flood myths all had an source, narciso. Most of the literature say it was within the past 4,000 years. To me, at least it is a given that there was an epic flood.

There are some underwater archaeological sites in the shallower parts of the Black Sea, though the rate of sea rise would have been relatively slow. The theory is that the Black Sea was a lot smaller until the Bosporus opened up.

(How did the story get to China? Same way the tales of fossils from the Gobi Desert inspired European tales of hippogriffs.)

[JIB]

I suppose if I had to live there I would be an addict too.

Crystal Meth is evidently a big problem in North Korea. HuH?

[JIB]

test

[daddy]

NJJan,

I'm just catching up on the last thread and saw this of yours:

When Christie ran against Corzine the papers were all for him. Even the Star Ledger endorsed him. This is the unofficial dem newspaper. Once he started after the teachers union and other budget eating entitlements, they were aghast and have been relentlessly against him.

I was in Jersey at the time the Teachers Union was having some sort rally for Corzine prior to the Christy/Corzine Election.

A year or so later, when a video of the NJTeahcers doing bad stuff at that Hotel surfaced, I dug up some of the comments about it and reposted them: So just for interest, here's that stuff reposted:

rse,

Here's comments I made at the time about that NJEA conference in New Jersey:

I'm currently in the East Brunswick New Jersey Hilton. They are having a convention for the NJEA, New Jersey Education Association. There are T-shirts for sale with John Corzine's photo at the Conference entrance, and large photo's of folks from previous years holding trophy's congratulating them on being the best collective bargaining negotiators for the Teachers Association. "Investing In Member Advocacy" will be the theme of tonight's conference.

Off the top, does anyone know where New Jersey students rate achievement-wise compared to the other 57 States?

Posted by: daddy | August 02, 2009 at 02:58 PM

and

Well I snuck into the NJEA (New Jersey Educator's conference) and lifted a sheet off a table which says "This is intended solely for NJEA members and their families".

"Which Candidate Is On Our Side?"

"The Choice is clear. NJEA supports Jon Corzine for Governor."

below is a nice shot of Corzine looking contemplative counterpoised against his opponent, Chris Christie, in an unflattering photo that makes him look like a fat nightshift manager of a Burger King Restaurant.

The isues:

School Vouchers:

Corzine -opposes.
Christie "Supports vouchers, which use public tax dollars to subsidize private and religious schools."

Merit Pay:

Corzine- opposes.
Christie-"Supports merit pay".

Pensions:

Corzine-"Contributed 3 billion oner 3 years to public employee pension systems with the goal of preserving their solvency".
Christie-Wants to replace benefit plans for new employees with defined contribution plans. Wants to eliminate pensions for part time workers."

Investing in New Jersey

Corzine- "Was the 1st Governor to come out with an economic recovery planthat includes a $3,000. grant for everynew job created and an estimated 16,000new private ector jobs..
Chriatie-"Wants to cut taxes across the board for all taxpayers and reduce the corporate business tax rate, effectively reducing revenue for state programs".

Posted by: daddy | August 02, 2009 at 04:59 PM

[narciso]

Well there is this, although it didn't pertain to the east coast;

http://columbiariverimages.com/Regions/Places/missoula_floods.html

[narciso]

Then there's this, kim will clarify how off they might be:

http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/abrupt-climate-change-during-the-last-ice-24288097

[Beasts of England]

JIB@5:30 - I just got a girlfriend in and out of rehab with that problem. She hid it from me during the time we dated, and she wasn't hardcore until right before rehab. She had been clean for over a month and then her cousin (who had been in rehab with her) got out two days ago.

I was supposed to pick her up at 3:30 Sunday afternoon. She had to go retrieve a few items from that same cousin's house. Neither have been heard from since. I haven't slept four hours total since then. I know it's not my fault, but I keep blaming myself... Calling her phone every half-hour. Straight to voicemail. I can't stop crying. Such an evil substance. I'll never take her back, but I'll also never stop praying for her...

[JIB]

BoE,

I pray for your pain to end. I have accepted your bet on the nominees. It will be good to see a few more Ferrari's here:)

Gators and 'Bama don't play this year unless we are "both" lucky and make it to Atlanta.

[daddy]

Via the Alaskan Dispatch Blog, we get this story on a Heat Wave in Northern Canada, with comments from the residents about how terrible Global Warming is.

Historically high heat during the past week has led to broken temperature records in all three of Canada's northern territories but residents aren’t complaining...

Local teacher Barbara Olson and her family found a unique way to deal with the scorching temperatures. They’ve been snorkeling in the Arctic Ocean.

“Every day when the kids wake up, it’s already pretty warm,” she said. “They ask to go swimming every day … They ask to go swimming all day long. The heat’s opened up a lot of things we’ve been able to do...

In Whitehorse... residents are flocking to Long Lake, a short drive from downtown...“I think it’s great for two or three weeks,” said Rosemary Nichol, who brought her grandchild with her to cool off. “After that, I’m looking for cool weather. But the kids love it all the time.”

Yet, even with the end in sight, it’s weeks like this that will keep Northerners like Whitehorse’s Mike Toews going six months from now, when the territories return to their status as Canada’s coldest region. “Yukon, what can I say?” he said. “Yesterday, we were tubing, water skiing on my friend’s boat an hour out of town… it’s that easy.”

“Of course, I like it this hot.”

[narciso]

From what I've given to understand, it's some nasty stuff, they said it was once legal, prayers for you beast;

http://www.nationalreview.com/356293/state-dept-buck-doesnt-stop-here

[JIB]

daddy,

I still have Jon Corzine's cell phone number from the time I played with him at Atlantic. This was pre-Madoff explosion and everyone there was wealthy, healthy and wise. Unfortunately, not even Boomer Esiason was immune to that disease.

Corzine took a bite of Bernie's apple. But not as bad as some.

[Threadkiller]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2534467

[lyle]

What's frightening, Matt?

[daddy]

Terrible loss for the Taiwanese to the Panamanian's [A(B)'s Team:) just an instant ago.

Up 7 to 4 in the last Inning the Taiwanese started making errors and the Panamanian's kept hammering the ball. Finally with the score tied 7-7, the Taiwanese Pitcher threw a terrible pitch, hit the batter, and the winning runner walked across the plate.

Then very very sad faces from the catcher, and the pitcher pulling his shirt up over his lower face, both absolutely crushed, and trying to maintain brave faces. An excellent contest.

Tomorrow we get Powerhouse Mexico versus Japan. I haven't seen the Japanese yet but I have to think that will be another well balanced game.

Anybody else watching this?

[polly]

Jane, I am not sailor whomever that is.(I am new to this blog and have not followed all posts.) Evidently anyone who challenges you is a troll. I am not. I like this blog and think most everyone on it is very intelligent. Why can you not take criticism? Everyone here seems to love you, so why would you take offense when I state a fact?

[narciso]

So what would it take for such a thing to be considered:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/20/the-dangers-facing-ted-cruz/

[NJJans]

Daddy
I was away for a while and just saw your posting re Corzine aand Christie. At the beginning of the campaign,the teachers union "invited" Christie to come to a meeting/interview with them. They always issue this invitation to the candidates and then endorse the democrat. Christie told them no. It was a waste of his time since they would endorse Corzine anyway. After that, it was war. During the campaign really never specified how he would handle the entitlement issue. It was in more vague terms although it didnt take much to figure it out. The teachers union filled in the blanks on their own. My teacher friends voted for him wanting their property taxes reduced. When they realized how he planned to reduce them, he was already elected. It was kind of funny. They foam at the mouth at the mention of his name. Apparently they didn't pay attention to union literature. They blame him for property taxes not being lower, not the dem legislature who watered down his solutions in response to teacher union lobbying.

[narciso]

Yes, it's quite deliberate;

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/08
/anti-gun-group-distorts-zimmerman-case-in-stand-your-ground-campaign.php

[daddy]

Has there been an instance in recent history, 10,000 years, where the seas have risen by 3 feet.

When you tour the small island in paris that Notre Dame sits on, just around the corner from Abelard's residence is a sign on a wall showing that some flood in 1910 was up 15 feet from normal river level and up to head height on an average man.

The Tour Guide tells us they have such a flood about every hundred years or so. I suppose that happens all over the world at different times, but here's a recent article that goes into Paris floods:

Water, Water Everywhere (But Not a Drop of Wine)

[Stephanie]

Daddy, I always watch the LLWS. Pulling for the SE.

The FedEx cup gets into full swing this week,too. And real football (NCAA) is just a little over a week away.

All is almost right with the world.

[narciso]

I do remember that from the book about the theft of the Mona Lisa.

[peter]

Yeah, Daddy, I have been watching it, and I enjoy it more than mlb

[(A) nuther Bub]

~~~ O, Panama, my Panama~~

Thought of you yesterday, Daddy, when I went into Long's Drugs and found a sale on Spam for only $1.59 per can. One can yields 6 musabi. If only you were already here; you could buy a case for momma and the girls. It would be better than bringing home a freshly shot elk, wouldn't it?

[Beasts of England]

JIB@6:08 - Thank you very much...

And thanks for the modified bet. I look forward to playing The National. ;-)

Football season is always exciting, but then, it's been a pretty good run these last four years. Cheers.

[JIB]

daddy,

If you are in Paris on September 1st, you are invited to join Mrs. JiB, Frederick, his Meter (Godmother) and Godfather for a dinner cruise birthday (his) celebration on a Bateaux Mouche down the Seine.

Coming in by Thalys from Antwerp via Brussels to Gare de Nord. Don't know where we are staying yet. But if you are there - join us:)

Hell, if anyone is there - join us.

[Beasts of England]

narciso@6:10 - Thank you. Eventually, as best I can tell, they just can't shake the thought of it. Brutal.

[narciso]

WEll there you go:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/08/20/egyptian-military-chief-orders-army-to-rebuild-every-coptic-church-burned-by-the-muslim-brotherhood/

[rich@gmu]

JIB-

evidently a big problem in North Korea. HuH?

Consumption and distribution. It isn't called a Sapranos State for nothing. A while ago I looked at a photo essay and the yound chap who put it together took a picture of a counter at the state store and right there in the case was a diy meth kit. IIRC a few years back the Australians boarded a NK flagged vessel and found a few hundred million dollars worth of nacotics on board. I believe they are still listed as a narco-trafficking state by the State Department and UN.

[rich@gmu]

JIB-

evidently a big problem in North Korea. HuH?

Consumption and distribution. It isn't called a Sapranos State for nothing. A while ago I looked at a photo essay and the yound chap who put it together took a picture of a counter at the state store and right there in the case was a diy meth kit. IIRC a few years back the Australians boarded a NK flagged vessel and found a few hundred million dollars worth of nacotics on board. I believe they are still listed as a narco-trafficking state by the State Department and UN.

[rich@gmu]

can't post except for this.

[rich@gmu]

not even that

[#richgmu]

how about now

[narciso]

No wonder they didn't have a clue;

http://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2013/08/20/wait-huh-no-theyre-doing-what/

[#richgmu]

good grief. sorry about that folks.

sorry to hear about that Beasts.

[Jim Miller]

The Mediterranean dried up -- and then was filled with a catastrophic flood about 5 million years ago. (There's a discussion of it, and other catastrophic floods, in the Wikipedia article, "Outburst Floods".)

Back in March, when I wrote about another Justin Gillis article ("In Search of Energy Miracles"), I was amused to find that he was opposed to breeder reactors -- and in favor of Bill Gates's "traveling wave" reactor, which is a kind of breeder reactor. (I believe that thorium reactors are also breeder reactors, but I could be wrong about that.)

Patrick Moore, usually described as a "founder" of Greenpeace, and certainly an early member, is a strong proponent of Greenpeace.

(For years and years, I have argued that if environmentalists are really worried about global warming, and can do arithmetic, they should favor a large expansion of nuclear power. But only a few of them seem to have come to the same conclusion I have.)

[narciso]

So, in the cunning, cunning, plan department;

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/20/failing-to-defund-obamacare-isnt-the-end-of-the-world/

[pagar]

Daddy, If Panama is playing the TV here is on. But it was hard to watch after the ending, those Taiwan youngsters played their hearts out.

[daddy]

Has there been an instance in recent history, 10,000 years, where the seas have risen by 3 feet.

Narciso, Here's some possibilities.

These are the Pillars of Pozzuoli:

Darwin's Geological mentor, Charles Lyell, realized that the discoloration bands across the pillars indicated that the seas had risen and submerged these ancient pillars for many many years, allowing boring mollusks to cause the damaging discoloration, yet then the sea had either fallen or the land had again risen leaving the damaged pillars still standing in their original location. It was so important to him as an insight about rising and falling sea levels (or land subsidence) that he included it as the first picture in his Principles of Geology, which young Darwin devoured on the Beagle, after which Darwin says he always viewed things through Lyell's eyes in terms of Geology.

Here's Lyell's frontispiece:

With eyes thus trained, thats why young Darwin was so very lucky to experience a huge earthquake in western Chile, where he was afterwards able to investigate the country and see how much different parts of the land had either risen or fallen in relation to the sea, and so then when he climbed the Andes and discovered petrified seaside type trees and seashells at 12,000 feet, he came to his conclusions about how mountain ranges arise and fall over huge amounts of time, how coral atolls are able to grow thousands of feet upward as the sea rises or the seafloor sinks, etc. Basically Plate tectonics before plate tectonics.

I am also uncertain of the timeline for the cutoff between the mainland Australian Aborigines and their Tasmanian cousins, but I believe it was no more than 10,000 years ago, rising sea-levels supposed to be the cause that effectively separated those 2 communities before the invention of the boomerang.

And I think a decent argument has also been made that the giant ground sloths of South America were free of predators for the millions of years that the isthmus of Panama was submerged, but once it popped up above sea level, then the North American predators entered the area and wiped them out. Off the top I can't recall when they believe that rise of the Isthmus occurred.

[narciso]

Well this is not his first rodeo, he had a whole file at Newsbuster, with pushback from McKittrick in this instance;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-waters/2013/04/05/latest-global-warming-scare-report-crumbles-wheres-new-york-timess-foll

[JIB]

Amateur says it all, I guess.

Pretty bad to see my once great country fall to the roadside as so much road kill of diplomacy and military might.

Maybe Manning will get off lightly tomorrow to make everyone feel more united in the cause of destroying yourself, your neighbor and your country. Pathetic.

[Jim Miller]

Let me try again.

Back in March, Justin Gillis wrote another article ("In search of Energy Miracles") in which he opposed breeder reactors -- and supported Bill Gates's ""traveling wave" reactor -- which is one kind of breeder reactor.

(Thorium reactors would either have to be breeder reactors, or get their fuel from breeder reactors. If I recall correctly, the thorium must be converted to U-234 before it can be "burned" in a reactor.)

[narciso]

That's really interesting, I didn't know about the Australian connection,

[Jim Miller]

Okay, the program is accepting my posts, it just isn't accepting promptly.

(Sorry for the partial double post, but I did refresh twice before I put it up.)

[daddy]

'Nuther Bub,

I don't care what they say about you here, I think you're as American as Musabi!

[Jim Miller]

Patrick Moore is a strong proponent of nuclear power, but no longer of Greenpeace.

[daddy]

Rats JiB,

I'm there on the 28th- 29th of August, but gone early on the 30th. I'll be in a hotel in Bercy. Oh well, it'll come together one of these days. Maybe we'll have a mechanical problem and get a couple extra days on deck!

And there's always hope for another Icelandic Volcano!! Go Eyjafjallajökull!

[narciso]

Here is the piece, you were referring to;

http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/March2013_2.html#jrm12419

[daddy]

Dogs. Bye!

[JIB]

daddy,

That may be a reason to go early:) But we are in Antwerp for Mrs. JiB's dad who is turning 87 and we need to see the old guy. He still swims laps every day in his pool and makes trips to France and Italy as he sees fit. A Knight of Malta and all that but no horse.

[Dubya does Dallas]

KeeRiced! What is the controversy? Human activity resembles a virus more than a beneficial organism. If you think we've contributed more to this ecosystem than we've taken, you must be thinking of Plastic. It's our only original excuse for staying at the top of the food chain.

[centralcal]

JIB: 87, swimming laps daily, making trips to Italy and France ...... he doesn't drive a Jaguar too does he?

[Beasts of England]

Rich@7:15 - I discussed it with her at length after she got out of rehab. All the ingredients are available in just three stops: a drug store, a hardware store and an outdoor's store. People buy the only controlled ingredient (a type of pseudoephedrine) and swap it with the 'shakers' in exchange for the final product. A twenty dollar investment will return seventy-five bucks of meth, which apparently is several days worth. Scary.

[JIB]

CC,

No. He is very frugal and drives a VW Golf. He doesn't have to but he does.

[Some Guy]

Human activity resembles a virus more than a beneficial organism.

Anyone who believes that can do something about it, and cut your CO2 emissions to zero.

[DrJ]

Yes, all is right with the world. And it has nothing to do with College Football.

Today we harvested the wine grapes. It was about 66 gallons in the containers, and a bit short of 15 gallons after stemming and crushing. If all goes well, that is about 50 bottles of Zinfandel.

The quality numbers are a bit off (late heat wave), but I can correct for that in the wine making. The yield is up by about four times from last year, and all the credit for that goes to MrsJ for much improved canopy management techniques.

We ought to double again next year as the vines get more mature. It will be time for a mechanical destemmer/crusher, as it took most of the day today for me and my hands look like I just committed a knife murder.

Tomorrow the primary fermentation starts. Off to clan up the lab.

[Ignatz]

I've always wondered how there could be sincere proselytizers for the human extinction movement.

[Ignatz]

Jeez, sorry to hear about the girlfriend, Beasts.
Sounds like she needs a come to Jesus moment, not more rehab.

[Some Guy]

I've always wondered how there could be sincere proselytizers for the human extinction movement.

There are plenty who will *talk* about it, but just about zero who will personally do their part.

[#richgmu]

Beasts-

My condolences to you. It is one of the evils of the world.

[Some Guy]

I've always wondered how there could be sincere proselytizers for the human extinction movement.

NSA bells, whistles, and flashing lights were set off by that sentence.

[#richgmu]

seems I having more trouble posting comments than normal today.

[Some Guy]

The NSA comment was meant for:

Tomorrow the primary fermentation starts. Off to clan up the lab.

[DrJ]

Some Guy,

Uh, *clean*? Oops!

The primary fermentation still starts tomorrow. No white sheets will be involved.

[matt]

Beasts;

They have to hit rock bottom before they begin to climb up. It's a sad fact. Users can do rehab 3, 5, 10 times, but until they find it somehow within themselves to work to stay clean it just doesn't take.

And it is a tough love environment. Don't give in to the easy answers. They have to know they will not be enabled or supported because the other thing addicts are is incredible manipulators. Love them but don't enable them.

There are also psychological issues to deal with in many cases, but that shit can get you the first time you snort or smoke or however you put it in your body. Same for coke and H. A lot of users these days mix them up and do all sorts of other fun things that fry their brains.

It's a soft fuzzy brown world where you can piss your pants and not care. And they have to live with that urge every day once they are clean.That's when they need your love and support.

The faith based rehabs tend to do better, but it requires the commitment to see it through come good or bad.

When I was young and hard and cold, after seeing the effects of the drug plague in NYC I thought the only humane thing to do was to put them out of their misery. I lived around the corner from Needle Park. Even today, I would put users into long term treatment and hang the dealers and chemists.

The Church used to specialize in these kinds of no hope charities and performed miracles. I wish we would look at this again.

Addicts need a place to sleep and to find their way back, much of which is through therapy and Alcoholics or Narcotics Anonymous. I like the boot camp idea. Let them sweat and work and rebuild their egos and never let off, but with compassion.

We lost three kids in the areathis past week to OD's, so I'm just a bit sensitive to the subject.