Navy Yard Shooter Was Mentally Ill, So Let's Change The Subject

As we learned last spring, "gun violence" includes homicides and suicides when progressives want to hype the national crisis; when the topic turns to violence committed by the mentally ill, suicide drops out of the mix and "mentally ill" is defined as narrowly as possible to exclude the (common) dual diagnosis of mental illness and substance abuse.

The Navy yard shooter was apparently mentally ill and didn't use a fearsome AR-15, so progressives have nothing left to talk about here.

Comments

[centralcal]

Jennifer Griffin ‏@JenGriffinFNC 24m

Newport, RI police report show Aug 7 Aaron Alexis #NavyYardShooting heard voices through walls, ceiling, floor hotel. Moved onto Navy base.
---
Navy shooter arrived DC on Aug 25. Was employed at Navy Yard as of yesterday: federal sources. Passed 4 background checks.
---
Navy demoted Alexis in 2008/docked pay. 2011 given glowing review: "will be valuable asset to any civilian organization."

[Ignatz]

--so progressives have nothing left to talk about here--

And he was black, so they should be triply tongue tied.
But somehow I don't imagine they'll let any of those facts stand in the way of a national "debate" (read, a bunch of morons bellowing) on banning assault rifles obtained by white conservative terrorists at gun shows without background checks.

[NK(tryin' again)]

Yep-- a young black man hearing voices (72 black eyed virgins?) uses a lawfully purchased shotgun and pistols stolen from victims to massacre 12. What's next? No flag draped coffins for the victims with Obummer and Hagel presiding at the funerals-- this all goes down the Media memory hole asap, just like Ft Hood and Boston Marathon.

[Danube on iPad]

Still chortling over the Lupica column.

[NK(tryin' again)]

Report-- friend say Alexis 'kind of a liberal and Obama voter"-- he was definitely mentally ill.

[Ignatz]

OT,
If anyone has a kid or employee or protege they want to teach extreme patience, the ability to endure tear-soaked tedium and absolute perfectionism, I can't imagine a better place to start than handing them a blank gunstock and a set of checkering tools and telling them to come back in two or three weeks with a perfectly checkered stock.
They'll hate you, but they'll be better people for the effort.......unless they strangle you.

[NK(tryin' again)]

A pretty big house in North Stamford Ct goes BOOM-- very close to my bicycle store-repair shop:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53034299/ns/local_news-new_york_ny/

[Danube on iPad]

Iggy, my dad once checkered the stock of an M-1 carbine. Perfectly.

[Ignatz]

NY Daily News issues a short blurb about Lupica's screed:

The FBI’s assistant director in charge of the Washington Field Office said Tuesday that gunman Aaron Alexis acted alone in the Navy Yard shooting that killed 12 people and added "we do not have any information" that an AR-15 was used. Mike Lupica’s column was written Monday when The Daily News and The Associated Press among many others reported, using reputable law enforcement sources, that the shooter Alexis had used three weapons including an AR-15.

The column and captions otherwise remain apparently unchanged. Astonishing they wouldn't retract it or rewrite it but merely excuse it and excuse their own unreliable false reporting.

[pinkman]

Plenty of progressives are convinced that if Newtown didn't bear fruit, neither will this. Of course the ignorance about weapons in our media (piers morgan) didn't help. Love those unintended consequences.

[DebinNC]

"The homeowner, who was outside on his property at the time of the explosion, escaped serious injury but was taken to the hospital as a precaution. A firefighter also suffered a minor back injury."

One way to avoid foreclosure

[Danube on iPad]

So Alexis passed state and federal background checks.

No AR-15. No handgun. Passed background checks. So what new law should be passed with the fierce urgency of now? A ban on pump shotguns?

[Ignatz]

It is mind numbingly tedious DoT but is a real character builder.
Doing a pre war Model 70 between comments right now. Have to go to the computer to keep my eyes from crossing.

[Beasts of England]

Ig@6:06 - Or you could make them read the IPCC's AR5. Same result(s).

[pinkman]

" A ban on pump shotguns?" Tube, not removable magazine, but what they pursue is reducing the number of casualties, so say a 5 rounder with 00 buckshot can take out more civilians, theoretically, than say a 10 round AR-15. It is unclear what all the various bills sitting on JB's desk will proscribe in CA on that basis.

[Threadkiller]

"One way to avoid foreclosure"

Talk about clouded title!

[DebinNC]

AP on shooter's mental issues: LUN

He bought the shotgun and 24 shells two days before the attack. Newport, RI police deserve praise for alerting the local naval station about his instability.

[Ignatz]

--Ig@6:06 - Or you could make them read the IPCC's AR5. Same result(s).--

Uh, yeah, except for the beautiful gunstock.

I'm surprised at you Beasts, and from such a long line of rifle builders. :)

[Ignatz]

He should have gone back to the store that sold him the shells; there's supposed to be 25 in a box.

[willem]

Was he also under the supervision of a prescribing physician, taking drugs at their direction with known side effects similar to grandiose morbid obsession?

If so, that might explain these new claims of his alleged obsession with violent games.

I also hear some in Congress have (re)built their personalities on similar medications. That speculation does make the unprecedented hubris, corruption and really bad hair a bit easier to explain.

Especially in that dinosaur mausoleum our Senate has become, with equal standing for the gynosaurs.

The crisis is not firearms but how to govern psychosis in government and mitigate the pathologies it magnifies. Democide killed 200 million during the 20th Century. Where do we think Obamacare came from? Does not it arise from the same culture of fatal conceit?

[narciso]

So speaking of pathological, what kind of vetting did they do at Institute on War,
that they didn't check O'Bagy was not enrolled in the Ph'd

[DebinNC]

Reuters: "A Newport, Rhode Island police report said Alexis complained on August 7 about "hearing voices" and of people sending "vibrations to his body" to prevent him from sleeping. The Newport police report said it warned Navy police after the incident, adding that Naval police said they would "follow up on this subject and determine if he is in fact a naval base contractor."

Accountability is a discarded concept.

[Marlene]

OT. Two rock and roll memoirs were released today,Graham Nash's and Linda Ronstadt's. I just started reading Nash's on Kindle. He has a wonderful story about Peter Bocking. I assume that he is JOM's own PUK. I'll quote from the book: Nash and Allan Clarke were two kids starting to get gigs in the pubs and school dances around Manchester.They were told..."you need a bocking." Nash said what are you talking about and Joe Abrams said "Peter Bocking". When Nash met Bocking he relates that Peter was shy,wore sunglasses and smoked like a chimney. He had a rectangular case that held as Nash says,"Good God! A Stratocaster!" Pete played it acoustically and Nash could hear the magic.So,they became the Fourtones,but as Nash says teen-age bands don't last. His remembrance of Pete's talent is very touching.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Does George Costanza's favorite "author", Lupica, point out that the shooter was a JEF supporter; or is that part and parcel of being mentally ill?

Btw Levin celebrated Constitution day by describing a lot of went on at the Convention. To my embarrassing shame, I missed six on the test and one on JiB's follow up.

[Extraneus]

Very nice, Marlene. He's our man.

[Danube on iPad]

Good God, it keeps getting better: apparently the shooter was killed by an AR-15. As Lupica says, a great weapon for hunting humans.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

Boehner has agreed to go forward with a vote to defund Obamacare. It is expected to pass the house.

[hit and run]

Graham Nash and I struck up a very friendly email relationship after PUK's death. A flaming lib to be sure (we never talked politics), but he had nothing but glowing comments about PUK. Nash signed a recommendation for the letter we (Rocco did alllll the work) drafted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to consider PUK for the pioneers(?) category, which never went anywhere.

Nice pen pal.

[pinkman]

": apparently the shooter was killed by an AR-15."

That brings up an interesting question....after Dorner and Boston;
Should cops have guns?

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

Geez Hit, you can sweet talk anyone. Get Insty to promote Clarice's latest Pieces you charmer you.

[MarkO]

hit,

Nash's voice made CS&N. Angelic. How cool.

[matt]

That is a classic sign of schizophre all of which need immediate medical attention. In California they call it a 5150, a 72 hour commitment to a psych facility for examination.

funny you should mention that, DoT & Ig. I have a M-1 carbine stock at home that just came in that I will finish, probably without the checkering.

It's an old project that I'm just getting round to. I have a feeling that the only remaining original component when done will be the receiver. And then I'll have a firearm that I will be lucky to hit a barn door with at 300 yards.

[MarkO]

I was passing a television when I heard this from the tossee:

“There are some who say, ‘Well, this gives the initiative to Putin,’” Clinton told Zakaria. “And — who cares how it came up?"

"What difference does it make?" and "Who cares?" are transparent juvenile excuses for clear mistakes.

This must be how they talk at home.

[Cecil Turner]

2011 given glowing review: "will be valuable asset to any civilian organization."

I saw the same report, but I hope everyone recognizes that's not a glowing review. In fact, it's very similar to the ol (probably urban legend) "this guy is going places . . . and the sooner he starts, the better off we'll all be."

On the main topic, I'm struck by how invested the lefty political types are in gun control (and in particular, an assault weapons ban that would've had little or no impact on the last several incidents). If they actually wanted to implement something that might work, a database of all people being treated for mental illness that's only accessible by a query in the event of a firearms sale would seem to be at least a minor inconvenience in most of the high vis cases. But noooooooo . . .

[matt]

hmmm..."schizophrenia and several other personality disorders" it should have read.

finger-brain disconnect.

[maryrose]

So great to remember PUK and Bad. Both added so much to JOM. I really miss them.
Let's move ahead and have that vote to defund Bammycare.
Obama's counter-move can be that he will delay individual mandate for a year. It is a win/win for repubs. They voted against funding it which will please their constituents and the conservatives repubs will then vote for them in 2014. As for Obama- he's irrelevant at this point.

[maryrose]

Marko:
I agree completely. Clinton ruined Lewinsky's life but "Who cares?". Hillary is afraid she will be tagged with Benghazi just like she was for her Bosnia lies so it's "What difference does it make/". You just reminded me how much I loathe these two grifters who steal WH furniture.

[Beasts of England]

Ig@6:36 - Ha! We let Sako and Weatherby do the checking part! lol

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

"What difference does it make?" and "Who cares?" are transparent juvenile excuses for clear mistakes.

First thing I thought of too - sort of. Two peas in an ugly pod.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

I'm thrilled they are taking the vote Maryrose. I read today that 51% of the country want Obamacare to be defunded. It's up to Cruz in the Senate, it probably won't pass (and if it will Reid won't bring it to a vote) but it will put some pressure on red state democrats.

Oh and any BS from Obama about a veto of anything, should be met with a Putin Tee and gales of laughter.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

I'm not willing to concede that the Clintoons talk at home.

[pinkman]

" If they actually wanted to implement something that might work, a database of all people being treated for mental illness that's only accessible by a query in the event of a firearms sale would seem to be at least a minor inconvenience in most of the high vis cases. "

That leaves a huge hole in the net, my friend.

Nearly 66% were MAJOR depressive cases.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/psychological-disorders-going-undiagnosed-study-says-1.765551

[Clarice]

Years ago I had a dispute with Horowitz about hate crimes--we both hate the notion, of course, but I didn't believe him when he said it only would be applied against white people. He was right and I was wrong. When ut's clearly black on white crime for race hatred reasons, the prosecution always accepts mental illness or makes up something else so hate crime is not one of the charges.

[Sue]

That is so nice that Peter was remembered in a book.

[MarkO]

Based on personal experience, I can report that it is entirely possible to hate white people.

[Carol Herman]

Crazy as a fruit cake. And, he had "SECRET" CLEARANCE!

Once the Navy up's your grade to include SECRET CLEARANCE ... he can get "contractor" jobs. You didn't know that?

You think it's easy to find people with "SECRET CLEARANCE?"

Just another nut in the life we're getting from N.S.A.

Senator Dianne Feinstink is already looking for passage of legislation that restricts gun owners. See how that paint brush works?

[Ignatz]

--As Lupica says, a great weapon for hunting humans.--

They seem to have not the slightest qualm so long as it's the government doing the hunting.

[narciso]

There was something wrong with the shooter, he was a sociopath, who else would kill 13
people in coldblood, but they don't want to deal with him,

Interesting, there is a grotesque echo of life imitating art, from NCIS earlier with that Deering fellow, who knew the NAVy's
weaknesses. or the PtP killer, Jonas Cobb,

[Sue]

For once Carol made me laugh. Feinstink. ::grin::

[Cecil Turner]

That leaves a huge hole in the net, my friend.

Actually, not so much. The criteria I suggested, being treated, includes all those being mistreated per the linked study (even if the comparison with Canadian health care were valid, which I wouldn't assume).

In any event, such a net would've caught the Columbine, Aurora, WVa Tech, Sandy Hook, and Navy Yard shooters, just off the top of my head. That's a heckuva lot more efficacious than any proposed gun control (or background check) that's been floated so far, AFAICT.

[Ignatz]

--If they actually wanted to implement something that might work, a database of all people being treated for mental illness that's only accessible by a query in the event of a firearms sale would seem to be at least a minor inconvenience in most of the high vis cases.--

It might work, or it might cause those nuts who are inclined to go on shooting sprees to not seek medical treatment.
It might even incline marginal cases who would be helped by treatment not to seek it, get worse and go on sprees they might not otherwise have done.
If it was confined to major delusional/paranoid psychotics and the profoundly depressed it might do some good.

I suspect going back to the days of involuntary confinement and treatment for the serious mental cases like this guy and the other recent lunatic shooters would do more good than anything else.

[narciso]

From the Horde;

The gunman who killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday test fired an AR-15 assault rifle at a Virginia gun store last week but was stopped from buying one because state law there prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers, according to two senior law enforcement officials.

[Danube on iPad]

Clarice's "Hillary" piece just came in over the transom via e-mail. It appears to have gone viral. BTW, on Monday's Lucianne.com it was the previous day's most read.

[Cecil Turner]

It might work, or it might cause those nuts who are inclined to go on shooting sprees to not seek medical treatment.

There's the real objection. I think it would probably work better than one would expect, simply because the intersection between gun buyers and mental health treatment is not likely to be large (especially if not overly publicized), but that's speculation.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that instead of looking for a solution to the problem, the lib activists (and their pet politicos) are using the problem to implement their ideology. And their maunderings (and they themselves) deserve all the respect one would accord Heinrich Himmler in a similar effort.

And yeah, okay, that was probably a Godwin violation.

[DebinNC]

Alexis demolishes libs' claim that blacks can't get ids.

[Caro's iPad]

Clarice has been"most read" twice in the short time Lucianne has been reporting it.

Great!

[Clarice]

to my untutored eye, he was a paranoid schizophrenic an very dangerous. The refusal to commit involuntarily such persons--something both conservatives and liberals bear responsibility for--leaves us vulnerable to such things.

[Gmax]

Anyone hear voices should not be walking around unsupervised.

[narciso]

The IG report leak, was like the 'squirrel' about GOP 'cuts' in diplomatic security, which of course ignores the issue of prioritization, of resources,

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

When I was a little kid there was a mob murder in my hometown. At that time I had never heard of the mob and I was equally unaware of murder. My mother told me I didn't have to worry because only mentally ill people commit murder. I bought that explanation.

Of course back then, everyone wasn't mentally ill.

[Atrollpasinthru]

A rational and savvy gun collector would not check-surface any part of an M-1 Carbine's already classic, natural finish stock, polished sufficiently with boiled linseed Oil rubbed well into its stock 'til it shines.

An M-1 with a checkered stock??? LOL

You''ll come to regret it. Detracts from the rifle's originality. Ostentatious. Tacky. Stupid idea. If the Army had thought that it would enhance its performance, it would have been given checkered stocks. Besides, its a fine-looking rifle just as it is.

[Danube on iPad]

This tragic gift just keeps on giving.

NYTImes:

"WASHINGTON — The gunman who killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday test-fired an AR-15 assault rifle at a Virginia gun store last week but was stopped from buying one because state law there prohibits the sale of such weapons to out-of-state buyers, according to two senior law enforcement officials."

It would seem that the "system worked" in every respect except the part that deprives military personnel on U.S. bases from possessing firearms.

Still, we must have a new law. Pray, what might it be?

[Ignatz]

--The point was that instead of looking for a solution to the problem, the lib activists (and their pet politicos) are using the problem to implement their ideology.--

Of course; you can't let twelve fresh corpses not even in rigor mortis yet a crisis go to waste.

[narciso]

Breitbart;

Ritrovato went on to explain that two of them had a close relationship based in part on their differences, specifically race and politics. Alexis was black, Ritrovato is white. Ritrovato described himself as conservative and Alexis is “more of a liberal type” who supported Barack Obama: - See more at: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/#sthash.qmy6zt6J.dpuf

[Ignatz]

"Check-surface"?
Now there's a gun savvy troll for you.

[Atrollpasinthru]

Now THAT is funny: That you're all too polite to mention the obvious, which, of course, is that, surely, any day now, Ignatz will go postal. Again

[Threadkiller]

From narciso's macro link:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/09/militarization-of-universities-ohio-state-buys-mine-resistant-armored-plated-military-vehicle/

Jesus.

I can't wait to see what Napolitano brings to the UC system.

[Danube on iPad]

"A rational and savvy gun collector would not check-surface any part of an M-1 Carbine's already classic, natural finish stock, polished sufficiently with boiled linseed Oil rubbed well into its stock 'til it shines."

The rational and savvy gun collector in this instance was my father, who had brought the carbine home from Okinawa. He did the checkering about four years before becoming president of the NRA.

But I'm sure he would have appreciated your advice.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

Dot,

Have I told you lately that I love you?

[narciso]

An assessment of the Ali Baba situation, from the last splendid little war'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/10313552/UN-report-paints-grim-assessment-of-Libya.html

[Danube on iPad]

When my father's uncle and Godfather, George Barnett, retired in 1923 after serving as Commandant of the Marine Corps, the Corps gave him as a retirement gift his original-issue '03 Springfield .30-'06 - sporterized, i.e. with a sporting stock instead of the original.. My father inherited it, and in 1994 I shot a grizzly bear with it in the Brooks Range in Alaska.

You know that Marine Corps: irrational. Not savvy.

[Atrollpasinthru]

It's your daddy's prerogative to be ostentatious, tacky and stupid. :P Ain't America grand?

[Atrollpasinthru]

You are full of shit. (sigh) I'm not impressed.

[narciso]

Nearly four fracking years after Ft. Hood, and they still let it happen again, Yes he was a buddhist, but otherwise most
everything stays the same, AQ doesn't even have to do anything

[matt]

It's a carbine, not a rifle, troll.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

You are full of shit. (sigh) I'm not impressed.

Which does nothing but reiterate how stupid you are.

[narciso]

Yes, he would be so crass to do this, today of all days:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/hoyer-compares-hostage-taking-debt-limit-fight

[Atrollpasinthru]

As a carbine, it is a type of rifle; i.e., like the M-1 Garand rifle, it has rifled barreling, too, as do the Spenser and the Sharps carbines, which are for 64,000? Yes, rifles, too.

[Steve]

Something to warm your heart. Another heartwarming video: Tipping Servers $200

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2013/09/another-heartwarming-video-tipping.html

[Danube on iPad]

"...ostentatious, tacky and stupid."

Hard to be ostentatious with an item nobody outside your immediate family has ever seen.

As to tacky and stupid, I think those reading these recent exchanges can readily decide where those adjectives are appropriately applied. You have waded in deeply over your head in shit, pal, and you and everyone else here know it.

[Danube on iPad]

"You''ll come to regret it."

His great grandson has it now. He doesn't regret it. Neither do I.

Do you actually think he was concerned with the resale value of that weapon? Can you not imagine that it was, for him, a prized personal memento that he cherished?

Keep showing yourself for what you are. It's great fun to rub your face in it publicly.

[Clarice]

Thanks, DoT and Caro.

[Account Deleted]

From Narciso's Ali Baba link:

Meanwhile, the UN warns that illegal arms, including "chemical weapons materiel", are "easily accessible" and "pose a considerable threat to national and regional security".

Libya agreed to surrender its chemical munitions in 2003, but a previously unknown cache was discovered this year. The process of destroying the remaining stockpile is now expected to last until 2016.

If there is "a" previously unknown cache, what is the probability there are actually "some" unknown caches? And, after getting our butts run out of the Benghazi Arms Bazaar, where we were buying arms in from the Ali Babas to ship to Cannibals in Syria, what's the chance we'll find any more if they exist?

[Danube on iPad]

Clarice: may I suggest that this Sunday's effort be an exquisite shredding of the Lupica column? It's gives rise to a host of delightful ingredients: the false reporting of the fiendish AR-15; the passed background checks; the use of a pump shotgun which no one has ever proposed banning; the failed effort by this madman to purchase an AR-15; the use of an AR-15 to take this guy down; the record of the brilliant gun-free zones ( the Denver movie theater, Fort Hood, Sandy Hook and the Navy Yard).

How many lives were lost because nutballs knew where no one could shoot back?

Lupica's career has been as a sportswriter, working in what is known as the Toy Department. This is what happens when a newspaper lets a guy in the Toy Department attempt to moonlight in the adult arena.

Sicc' im.

[Danube on iPad]

"...it has rifled barreling, too, as do the Spenser and the Sharps carbines"

As do a number of well-known rifles like the M1911 .45 cal. ACP and the Dirty Harry .44 Magum by Smith & Wesson.

Stupid shit.

[Sis Boombah]

@9:32 - Keep on truckin'

[Sis Boombah]

@9:32 - Keep on truckin'

[Atrollpasinthru]

I won. You lost. too.

[Clarice]

Interesting, DoT. I've seen people doing that all ay on the net. The week is young and I'll take it under advisement. I am puzzled about how Snowdon and Maning an Alexis all got security clearances. I am puzzled why anyone thinks they mean anything any more. I am also puzzled about why--when we have dropped the ball with the information dropped in our laps so many times--anyone could possibly believe theres more to be gained than lost with the vast expansion of oestic intelligence gathering. As cathy nots--looking for a needle in a haystack, why not just ass mor straw?

[Ignatz]

I'd like to join the debate but I have to go check-surface some more of my pre war Winchester Model 70 which was preceded by the Model 54 which is a derivative of the Model 98 Mauser which was designed for the German Army and which has been greatly devalued millions of times by people doing stuff like this to them;

Idiot.

[narciso]

They clearly don't, he was an Intranet contractor, which makes it particularly strange that he would be hired,

[Atrollpasinthru]

Oops! I won. You lost. Too bad. Now get lost, junior.

[Danube on iPad]

Quod erat demonstrandum, Iggy.

Beautiful work.

[narciso]

Einstein said as a warning, not a guideline"

http://www.jpost.com/International/Obama-We-should-test-indications-that-Irans-Rouhani-open-to-dialogue-326433

[Some Guy]

I won. You lost. too.

The Resident suffers from the same disorder as you. He's too stupid to seek help, and apparently you are as well.

[Ignatz]

--Beautiful work.--

Right click for more of it.
Made by Johan Fanjoz of Austria.

[Danube on iPad]

Is it real, or is it Duck Dynasty?

"Two men being sought by police in the abduction of a 14-year-old Georgia girl during a home invasion have reportedly made a $10,000 ransom demand."

[Beasts of England]

Testing.

[Atrollpasinthru]

1:38: Smoke. mirrors and bullshit as a diversion and to save face, no substance. no fact. Typical Ignatz. Not even rational, nor relevant. Moronic, Crazy. Appeals only to creepiest elements here.

[Clarice]

My goodness. Looking at my last post I outdid myself in typos.

Should be :

I am also puzzled about why--when we have dropped the ball with the information dropped in our laps so many times--anyone could possibly believe there's more to be gained than lost with the vast expansion of domestic intelligence gathering. As cathy notes--looking for a needle in a haystack, why not just add more straw?

Niters.