"New Debate" On Gun Control, And We LOL

The NY Times declares a new direction in the gun control debate:

Mental Health Again an Issue in Gun Debate

WASHINGTON — Despite deep divisions that have kept Congress from passing new gun safety laws for almost two decades, there is one aspect of gun control on which many Democrats, Republicans and even the National Rifle Association agree: the need to give mental health providers better resources to treat dangerous people and prevent them from buying weapons.

So far, so good - treat the mentally ill and prevent them from buying weapons. But watch how one of those cards gets palmed two paragraphs later:

The new debate over gun control is beginning to turn not on weapons or ammunition, but on the question of whether to spend more money on treating and preventing mental illness.

What happened to improved reporting to prevent gun purchases by the mentally ill?

We then veer off to la-la land:

“Given the clear connection between recent mass shootings and mental illness, the Senate should not delay bipartisan legislation that would help address this issue,” Senators Kelly Ayotte, Republican of New Hampshire, and Mark Begich, Democrat of Alaska, wrote Wednesday in a joint statement to the Senate leadership. The legislation they are pushing, which was held up when a more sweeping gun measure was defeated earlier this year, would establish programs to train teachers to recognize the signs of mental illness and how to defuse potentially violent situations.

Just off-hand, I think well-trained teachers might have picked up on the Aurora movie theatre shooter. Of course, that shooter was seeing a psychiatrist, so the potential for clues was abundan.

Adam Lanza of Newtown and Aaron Alexis of the Navy Yard were not disgruntled students. Jared Loughner of the Tucson shooting had been diagnosed and treated for schizophrenia, so a lack of alert teachers wasn't the issue there, either.

La-la or not, Harry Reid is holding mental health provisions hostage:

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader and a strong proponent of the failed Senate plan to expand the federal background check system, is resisting any move to advance the mental health provisions, fearing that it would be used as a fig leaf by those who oppose expanded checks while closing the door to weapons restrictions in the future. Both Ms. Ayotte and Mr. Begich opposed the gun control bill that failed in April.

Playing politics while people die.

FWIW, New York state included expanded mental health reporting in their recent hastily-conceived post-Newton gun laws, to some controversy.

FROM THE ARCHIVES: This Dec 2012 Gallup poll (post-Newton) headlined mental health:

To Stop Shootings, Americans Focus on Police, Mental Health

Democrats substantially more likely to see assault gun ban as effective

PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans are most likely to say that an increased police presence at schools, increased government spending on mental health screening and treatment, and decreased depiction of gun violence in entertainment venues would be effective in preventing mass shootings at schools. Americans rate the potential effectiveness of a ban on assault and semi-automatic guns as fourth on a list of six actions Gallup asked about.

Mental health? The mentally ill are victims, and hence clients of the left. As to violent entertainment,  Hollywood is one of their piggy banks. And we do have free speech rights, sort of like we also have gun rights, except only one of those counts with Obama.

And in this old post, Connecticut is still grappling with a mental health response to Newton. A state task force is due to report in Feb 2014.

 

 

Comments

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Jared Loughner's donk parents actively intervened and played every chip in their possession to keep their son from getting proper treatment. They are the reason the Tucson incident happened. Anything else is misdirectional fluff.

[henry]

The left/DeMSM are a bunch of master-debaters.

[narciso]

And Dupnik covered it up. Mark Kelley is still being a nazgul about it,

[NK(tryin' again)]

TomM suffers from the same delusion as I do; that is gun grabbers act in good faith and seek to solve problems caused by the abuse of gun rights. They don't act in good faith, they are fascistic power grasping thugs. Ayotte and Begich are probably merely useful idiots to the gun grabbers that run the Senate and Dem Party, but make no mistake, the Dems who run the Senate and WH and state houses will only act if it furthers their goal of ending private gun ownership and confiscating firearms. Any action that merely addresses a real problem of abuse, they have no interest in adopting. The abusers further the cause of confiscation-- why would the Dems support addressing that abuse? I hope Tom was sarcastic in his last sentence-- the reality is that Dems want carnage because it helps their evil politics.

[narciso]

No Begich is a tool, Ayotte is very naive,
at beast,

[narciso]

In other pointless exercise news;

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/09/19/mccains-op-ed-in-pravda-russians-deserve-better-than-putin/

[Old Lurker test]

You realize the Drudge headline about Obama stating that "raising the Debt Ceiling does not increase the Debt" more or less defines the final frontier of the transformation to socialism, right?

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

That Colorado recall must have shaken Mark Kelly up since he hasn't dressed his meat puppet up and hit the road.

[narciso]

This was the piece I mentioned yesterday;

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/17/3633584/ex-guantanamo-detainee-dies-fighting.html

as Long War Journal points out, he's not the first one,

[narciso]

By all means release more of these folk'

http://tolonews.com/en/afghanistan/11966-released-taliban-commander-on-a-killing-spree-after-rejoining-insurgency

[4JIB2]

OT: Negotiate? We don't negotiate with Congress only Russia and Syria.

What a joke.

Not a bad 1 minute video from Boehner's office.

[NK(tryin' again)]

OL-- you're right of course, but personally I think that Obummer remark to the Business Rooundtable was more a reflection of the fact that Obummer is a complete and utter idiot, and there is NO ONE around him that knows anything, about anything.

[narciso]

Of course, raising the debt limit, creates a new baseline, one almost wishes Zombie Graham Chapman, would pipe in saying 'this is very silly indeed.

[Clarice]

The WaPo is full of left wing writers offering up free advice o republicans why shutting down the govt--i.e., refusing to fund Obamacare--wil be ba for them. Isn't that good of them?

[narciso]

I think the first five words cover it,

[Clarice]

Talk about burying the lead:http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/09/navy-yard-murderer-aaron-alexis-created-webpage-with-name-mohammed-salem.html?utm_source=co2hog

Alexis aka Mohammed-salem

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

I'd really like for Rove to debate Levin on defunding JEFCare because I think this would be a healthy thing to have regarding the future of the GOP. Let's get it on and let the chips fall where they may.

[NK(tryin' again)]

Clarice-- thanks for that link. My opinion remains Alexis was nutz and not a Jihadi warrior. But his insanity lead him to Islamic delusions and to hate american and murder them. So how different was he from a true Jihadi?

[narciso]

The post pointed out, he was practicing some sort of Baddhist taquiyya, learning Thai to try to get women,

[rse]

The Business Roundtable meeting this week was in part about getting Big Business to push the Common Core is a good thing meme on their employees. I have been getting emails on the meeting and who spoke. Which also means this was all very much in the midst of the Industrial Policy, Singapore is a good exemplar, vision of future directed cronyism.

At the program I was at a few days ago it got so bad that one of the tech bigwigs actually said in the panel discussion that "he didn't believe in governments just throwing money at ventures." Apparently he wants a properly structured public/private PS.

The elites know good and well they are radically shifting the nature of the compact between citizen and state in the US and all those guns in the US are a barrier. Right now the state may have a legal monopoly on the lawful use of force but they do not have monopoly on the use of effective force.

On mental health, this is such an opening for the desired social and emotional and values manipulation and invasion into contemplative education to nurture different kinds of minds that is going full bore anyway, that the genuine illnesses no one disputes get sacrificed to the desire to use mass shootings as yet another gambit to push DEL and humanistic psych practices generally. Without admitting that is what is going on.

[NK(tryin' again)]

Well this is horrible; Giant head coach 63yo brother dies from fall to pavement: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-19/giants-coach-coughlin-s-younger-brother-dies-after-striking-head.html

[centralcal]

Ooooohhh!!!! These are creepy - GREAT - but creepy. Just what the doctor Obamacare ordered. Two new anti-Obamacare ads. One for the gals, one for the guys, aimed at college campuses. You really must watch.

[Marlene]

Ayotte was hit with a barrage of ads and confrontations with Newtown relatives after her vote. Her approval in NH dropped,so she is probably doing the political thing,"compromise."
I posted on the previous thread that my daughter said DC is a behemoth of dysfunction.

[narciso]

Dowd deservss her own page in the DSM IV

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2013/09/18/nyts-maureen-dowd-slams-obama-post-shooting-tea-party-attack-hes-one-wei

[pagar101]

""raising the Debt Ceiling does not increase the Debt"

Remember how you smiled when your credit card company sent you that nice letter saying that you were such a good customer that they were increasing your credit line limit?

[Old Lurker test]

NK I do not think it was benign stupidity at all. As I have stated before, they want to memorialize entitlements, transfers and handouts that derive from all laws currently on the books as if 1) they never sunset are get adjusted in subsequent budgets, and 2) as if they are on a par with "real" borrowings.

Not stupid at all.

[Old Lurker test]

are = or

[Marlene]

ccal,lol.

[4JIB2]

ccal,

The only issue I had with the guy's video is the prostate exam. I was not aware that 20 somethings got the old proctology glove. Its usually reserved for those males over 40.

This message may not resonate with young guys like the Ob/Gyn exam will do for women.

[Old Lurker test]

Your guy uses a glove???

[NK(tryin' again)]

Over forty????... wait a tick.. my internist started right in with the procto on my very first physical with him when I was 34-- 20+ physicals later he's still never found anything. I complain every exam, and he'll have none of it, saying I have to do it once a year, and his mom scrubbed floors so he could go to the Harvard Medical School and administer the exam 10 times per week. What can you do, I just tell him not to smile when he dives in.

[Old Lurker test]

LUN for rse from VDH

[MaryD]

Marlene, those commercials are hilarious!

[MaryM]

I heartily approve of free speech and support the approach of "more speech" being the best response to offensive speech, etc etc etc... but damn, CH@8:51 that was a horrible thing to call Gabby G. Honestly, it reminded me of those awful things the left says about Trig.

[rse]

Thanks OL.

I am reading Tom Bothell's 1998 book called The Noblest Triumph on the relationship of private property to prosperity. I do believe you would enjoy it as well.

[Danube of Thought]

Given the clear connection between recent mass shootings and mental illness

No mention of a clear connection between recent mass shootings and gun-free zones.

[Ignatz]

Trig isn't used as a stage prop to score political points or take away our rights.

[Marlene]

MaryD,are you in NH? What do you think of Ayotte? I was hoping she wouldn't turn into Snowe/Collins,but it doesn't look good.

[MaryM]

I agree with that, Ignatz, but do you think Gabby is a fair target because of her husband's actions? It's possible of course she's a willing and rational participant, but my opinion is she's being used and attacking her is ugly and, I think, distracts from the better argument -- that she is being made a victim a second time, this time by those who should be looking out for her.

[MaryD]

Marlene, great mends think alike. Yes. I'm in Littleton. I actually voted for Kelly and was very high on her until she started hanging out with the two media moths, McCain and Graham. Her amnesty vote was a real deal breaker for me, and my calls to her office have been quite critical since then. After she went to Biden's with that crowd of RINOs for Italian dinner night, I called the office and told her staffer that I didn't vote for her and give to her campaign so she could be New Hampshire's Susan Collins. BTW, the future does not look bright -- there's talk of resuscitating Good Time Charlie (almost a Democrat) Bass to run against Jeanne Shaheen. Oy! as we used to say in New York.

[Danube of Thought]

Trig isn't used as a stage prop to score political points or take away our rights.

That's the point: Giffords is being used by her husband. I think he should be attacked without mercy instead of ridiculing the stage prop.

[MaryM]

Exactly, Danube. That's what I meant.

[lyle]

the two media moths, McCain and Graham.

Excellent, MaryD. I'm going to steal that (with proper attribution, of course) when my own words for them prove to be too explicative for certain fora.

[sbwaters]

Your guy uses a glove???

My guy uses a tax collector.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"That's the point: Giffords is being used by her husband. I think he should be attacked without mercy instead of ridiculing the stage prop."

Trying to catch up....

I find it hard to believe he doesn't have her blessing. She's not a vegetable.

[Landru]

Here are the 2 relevent disqualifiers when attempting to buy a gun in Virginia. I know they check the VA state records for this, but I'm not sure if the check hits all the other states' records.

12.Have you ever been involuntarily admitted to a facility or involuntarily ordered to outpatient mental health treatment?
13.Have you ever been the subject of a temporary detention order and subsequently agreed to voluntarily admission for mental health treatment?

It seems to me that when Alexis shot up the car's tires in Seattle in 2005 (and was not even prosecuted!), he should have been subjected to one or the other of these, and
that should have shown up when he bought the shotgun in VA and disallowed it. Or he should have been charged with a felony, if shooting at the car's tires even is one in WA, and that would have stopped him from buying the shotgun. However you slice it, the incident in Seattle in 2005 should have been enough to bar him from buying a gun at a dealer anywhere.

[pinkman]

Ibrahim Hassan al-Asiri is why they shit a brick over the leak.

He's apparently some kind of genius in bomb-making, unlike the majority of screw-ups with a bun on. He's the one they can't control and those loose cannons make for poor false flags as the outcome is less certain. They would prefer to make the bomb for the hapless wanderers to stuff in their jock-straps or strap-ons and then point them in the right direction. They don't normally have trouble walking upright.