And Why Not?

A House stenographer freaks out.

Comments

[centralcal]

What is remarkable, really, is that more of them haven't.

[Threadkiller]

Why she didn't tell a birther joke is beyond me.

[Jesse]

Scalia weeps.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Free Masons?... the stenographer is on to you Maguire.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.interior.gov/index.cfm

The site is up! Click if you want to vomit.

[Gus]

So what was the govt shut down for? I've forgotten? The Republicans had a REALLY REALLY GROOVY strategy. I keep hearing our resident genius tell us about Cruz being the problem. Really?

[PaulV]

Was she a member of the media? Most of Obama's stenographers are.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Gus, Moi? OK I'll answer your question. The gov't shutdown was what Obummer wanted, and the Cruz filibuster gave Obummer the excuse he needed to shutdown, with no opportunity to pressure Red/Purple State Senate Dems with any tough votes on the CR or the Debt. So giving Obummer the shutdown, without getting any worthwhile benefit out of it was foolish. Fortunately, the shutdown didn't give Obummer any great benefit, the worst effect of the shutdown was it distracted from the Debt and ObummerCare fights, which the Senate Dems want no part of before 2014 elections. You're welcome.

[Dave (in MA)]

I see. Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered
philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative
garbage. You sit there on your loathsome spotty behinds squeezing
blackheads, not caring a tinker's cuss for the struggling artist.
You excrement, you whining hypocritical toadies with your colour TV
sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding masonic
secret handshakes. You wouldn't let me join, would you, you
blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn't become a Freemason now if
you went down on your lousy stinking knees and begged me.

[hit and run]

The face of an essential federal employee.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Dave(inMa)-- Heh! Monty Python?

[Jesse]

Well Opus Dei wouldn't blackball you, in fact they like to Shanghai members.

[narciso]

Well she didn't mutter about a Headless Horseman, Minitrue is on elevefty, from the Post to the Journal, which trumptes the Business roundtables promise to press further the serf's collars more firmly.

[Dave (in MA)]

NK, yes. I had to get in early to beat Narciso with a MP reference.

[derwill]

A lot of voters who default to the GOP--particularly those with a libertarian bent, like myself--do so because we view the Republican candidate as the lessor of two evils. That is the Republican brand today: The Lessor of Two Evils. Oh, maybe they'll trim the size of government and the spending on the edges to buy our vote for the next go around. Most times, though, they just end up increasing both the bureaucracy and the spending, only to a lesser degree than a Democrat would have done.

Ted Cruz and the Tea Party are a very real threat to the GOP, because they appear to offer (for the moment at least--for power does corrupt) an alternative. What happens when the choice is among evil, a lessor evil, and real reform? Well, evil wins out, I suppose, because the lessor evil and real reform end up splitting the anti-pure evil vote. So the argument is then made: forget about fighting for reform because you'll not only lose yourself, you'll cause the lessor of two evils to lose as well.

And that is a valid argument. But I think we've reached a point where we're going off a 500 foot cliff, and whether we go off that cliff at 100 miles an hour or 50 miles an hour becomes immaterial, when the crash at the end is guaranteed to be just as fatal.

So when you're at that point, and some guy comes along and offers to fight like hell to put on the brakes, do you join him and pray like hell that somehow, someway he prevails? Or do you stay in the lessor-of-two-evils car and console yourself with the knowledge that even though you're still going to die, at least you didn't damage the "brand" by fighting for a lost cause?

[Threadkiller]

"...Cruz filibuster..."

This may come as a shock but what Cruz did was not a filibuster. He did not disturb regular order to the Senate or any Senate procedure. He yielded the floor at the beginning of the new business day of the Senate.

If Obama needs an excuse, and we are looking for accuracy, blame falls on the 228 House Republicans that sent the first "defund obamacare" bill over to the Senate at the end of Sept. and Boehner for shelving the amended bill that passed the Senate shortly after Cruz finished speaking.

[narciso]

'Freedom is slavery', now mind you that is always there default setting,

[narciso]

But she's the crazy one;

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/10/17/video-obama-includes-attack-on-bloggers-talk-radio-and-the-first-amendment-in-his-shutdown-touchdown-dance/

[Jesse]

The problem is that, pace Weisenthal, you can’t just kill someone’s revolutionary nihilism.

The Ted Cruz “filibuster” is a great example: it served no actual legislative purpose, and at the end of his idiotically long speech, Cruz ended up voting yes on the very bill he was trying to kill. That’s zombie politics, and the problem with zombies is that — being dead already — they’re incredibly hard to kill.

F. Salmon (Reuters)

[Jesse]

Looking outward for a victim in the blame-game. Where else might one look?

[narciso]

Unteresting detail from James Rosen's interview review of Treey Lenzer's bio, his firm IGI did the origninal
data dump on Bain in 1994, there is also a diisingenousy bit, where he says Ken Starr shoul have focused on campign finance,

[narciso]

Ah yes, Wendy Sherman, she did such a bangup job with North Korea;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/why-we-should-fear-were-headed-for-a-bad-deal-with-iran/#comments

[Jim Miller]

Yesterday, I predicted that the margin in the New Jersey Senate race would be 11.0 percent.

It was actually 10.68 percent.

Well, you can't be right every time. (I may not have allowed enough for the work of Jan in New Jersey, and others like her.)

Danube - There's a good write-up of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy at Wikipedia. It's worth looking at, because it's a common error.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

TK-- tsk tsk, no altering history please. 30+ House members and cruz jointly held out against signing a CR without defund.... Speaker Boehner would not have had 218 Repub votes without those 30+ repubs, so he convinced virtually all of the Repub caucus to go with defund as a 'first step' to accomodate the conservative wing of the Caucus. That CR went to the Senate and gave Cruz his opportunity to speak out and use his oratory to 'pressure' the Red/Purple state Dem senators to vote for defund and send Obummer a defund CR to veto. 100% failure, not a single Dem senator voted for defund, as the Senate Repubs advised would happen. That defund failure gave Obummer his excuse to 'shutdown.' Rest is history-- Senate dems never had to make a tough vote on the CR or debt. Easy punt until early February.

[caro]

Derwill at 12:15, yes.

[MarkO]

"Senate dems never had to make a tough vote on the CR or debt."

And that will remain true so long as the Democrats have the majority in the Senate. Reid will not bring any such bill to the floor. How is this the fault of Cruz or the House?

[Extraneus]

he convinced virtually all of the Repub caucus to go with defund as a 'first step'

After which time, he listened to DublinDave and confused everyone about what Republicans wanted. Even we couldn't answer.

If he'd have gone with Clarice's strategy at that point, with a bill that simply eliminated corrupt exemptions, everyone could have rallied around that end game, and the Dems would be squealing right now. Instead, we got individual mandate delay, device tax repeal and I can't even remember what else.

It wasn't Cruz. He had no responsibility for any part of this, and was just a junior senator making a speech. It was Boehner.

[Threadkiller]

"Cruz ended up voting yes on the very bill he was trying to kill"

Cruz voted yes on the bill he was trying to pass.

You have it wrong.

[Threadkiller]

F. Salmon has it wrong, I guess.

[Threadkiller]

So, NK, you are saying Boehner had to convince everybody to vote to defund against their will at the bidding of the 30 scoundrels?

Then why didn't he put the amended Senate "clean" CR up for a vote when he knew the lack of 30 republican votes would be far outweighed by the unity of democrat votes in favor?

One last question: How much does Cruz's vote count in The House?

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Ok NK, who do you irrationally hate more: Ted Cruz or George Zimmerman?

[AliceH]

NK's GOP arguments make me want to vote Democrat.

[narciso]

Because sensible peole kept 'apper Don' Malloy and the Phony Marine, wait that didn't happen at all

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

MarkO-- the better way was INSTEAD of defund, for the House to pass a pre-Oct 1st CR with things that Senate Dems did not want to vote against, ObummerCare exemptions, med device tax repeal, and those would have passed with about 20 Dems (like the re-open CRs which were passed later)-- if Reid didn't have a vote on those conditions, Reid would have caused the shutdown, that would hurt Senate Dems, If Reid voted on those, the RedState Dems would have had a real hard time voting no. This was the Cantotr/Ryan plan-- the House conservatives/cruz attacked that plan as too weak-- defund or nothing.

[Threadkiller]

"the better way was INSTEAD of defund, for the House to pass a pre-Oct 1st"

It looks like we agree that not taking the better way was a choice made in The House.

By October 5th, Boehner had 200 votes, that would counter the 30, to get the CR he wanted before Cruzmaster wrecked everything with defund language.

http://www.democraticleader.gov/200_House_Democrats_Letter_on_Clean_CR

Tell me again about history rewrites.

[Ignatz]

I'll wager if we replayed all the Democrat speakers at the podium yesterday along with the nutzo stenographer, what she said would be well down the list of the most nutty, appalling gibberish anyone offered up.

[Ignatz]

Memorandum headline;

Ted Cruz left with few friends after Obamacare fight fails, government shutdown ends, debt limit rises

Not making friends in the present halls of congress should be viewed about the same as being looked on with official disfavor in Berlin circa 1938 or Moscow in 1924.

[narciso]

Whos' crazirer, the stegonagrpaher of Ezra kelin working his way down the eight stages of grief

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Most of the Republicans elected from 2010 on ran pledging to oppose 404Care. That includes McCain who also lied about being tough on border security. All Cruz and Mike Lee did, unlike Kelly Ayotte, was keep their campaign promise. They and the House Repubs were undercut by the Senate Repubs who did the donk's heavy lifting without being bent over for it.

People talk about politics being the art of the possible; if you don't try anything you make it impossible.

[derwill]

--Cruz . . . was just a junior senator making a speech--

Cruz had two things: a single vote as a member of the minority party in the Senate chamber, and a forum upon which to stand up and call out Obamacare for the disaster that it is, and warn us all of the impending doom it will bring to our health care industry and the economy if it is allowed to proceed. He stood up. He gave a speech, of which maybe 10% at most of the population even heard a small portion of, and yet the very act of his giving that speech seems to have terrified our lord and masters back in DC. And not just the GOP establishment either. The very savagery of the media's attack on him proves that the Left fear him--or rather his message--greatly as well.

You could say that what Cruz did was just speak his Truth to Power. That Power seems to be quailing in the face of his Truth ought to tell us something.

[hit and run]

Ext:
Instead, we got individual mandate delay, device tax repeal and I can't even remember what else.

I'm pretty sure they renamed the Redskins.

[Some Guy]

The gov't shutdown was what Obummer wanted, and the Cruz filibuster gave Obummer the excuse he needed to shutdown

I'll call BS.

The shutdown was going to happen regardless. Cruz had nothing to do with creating or causing the shutdown.

The SOLE reason for the shutdown was the president’s outrageous demand for a blank check without negotiation. Period. End of story. He wanted a shutdown, he set up the situation to require a shutdown. It is completely false, and quite harmful, to state otherwise.

Cruz’s only influence was on what might be demanded in a negotiation.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

I love answering questions--
1. Boehner has more control over the Cantor-Ryan part of the caucus so he got their vote to defund, Boehner wanted no part of using Dem votes to pass a CR without defund -- so the Ryan-Cantor votes got him the defund CR-- even though he thought it was a mistake, remember when he mentioned freezing out the 30 defund repubs as a possibility in September, the conservative media (like us) jumped all over him as a surrenderist. Sounds like everybody now agrees that the defund CR was a follish mistake and we should have followed Clarice/Canor's advice (and who else at the time said a defund CR was a mistake-- why TomM for instance an other commenters but aome commeners said 'defund or I'll never vote Repub again!-- or stuff along those lines);

2. Cruz's involvement-- he was the Senate defund connection, he and the 30+ conservative House caucus publicly claimed his objection to unamimous consent and his Senate speech would force vulnerable Dem senators to vote for defund. Capt H-- Hate Cruz? have you ever met cruz? shook his hand, given money to his causes-- Cruz is a fantastic resource for conservatives on many levels and he's smarter than the rest of us put together, he knew what he was doing here;

3. vote Dem? why? because conservatives have the temerity to point out the tactical mistakes of politicians? Cantor was the way to go, Cantor couldn't get 218 Repubs because of TP opposition-- so we got defund CR and the shutdown. Simple truthes.

[narciso]

A tax increase is always possibile, so are defense cuts, anything that actually reduces the scope of ai intrusive Federal Apparat, no sorry,

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

I'm glad to hear you think highly of Cruz, NK, because that wasn't evident in what you previously wrote. Regarding him giving Gaylord Focker cover, the MFM would go into their protect mode around the petulant Indonesian Dunce no matter what had happened.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Obummer wanted the shutdown? FACT, absolutely true. Everybody who follows this stuff knew it. So what to do? people like Clarice and Cantor/Ryan logically said lets pick poison pills for the CR that are popular with our and persuadable voters (even DELAY), pass and send that to the Senate, and when Reid refuses to vote on that-- we can show our voters and persuadables that the Dems caused the shutdown, and we'll wait for the Dems to send a counterproposal, meantime we'll pass popular partial CR to fund vets and national parks and soc sec, and debate the Debt. That would have been unhappy times for Senate Dems. Instead, we gave them the defund CR which persuadables didn't like (per polling) and it gave Obummer a convenient excuse to shutdown based on Repub blackmail and no hard votes of any kind for the Senate Dems.

[Some Guy]

Instead, we gave them the defund CR which persuadables didn't like (per polling) and it gave Obummer a convenient excuse to shutdown based on Repub blackmail and no hard votes of any kind for the Senate Dems.

Again complete and total BS.

ANYTHING other than a blank check was 'Repub blackmail' and would have resulted in a shutdown.

[Threadkiller]

" Boehner wanted no part of using Dem votes to pass a CR without defund "

Boehner was the culprit.

" he and the 30+ conservative House caucus publicly claimed his objection to unamimous consent and his Senate speech would force vulnerable Dem senators to vote for defund"

Citation of said claim?

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Those were subsequently done and either Reid held them up or the JEF said NFW. He suffered no negative consequences for that.

[Threadkiller]

he knew what he was doing here;

Yes, but the question is: do you know what he was doing?

[AliceH]

GOP are damaged goods. Let's all vote Democrat in 2014. We can't afford more tactical mistakes just because we support the principles at issue.

[centralcal]

I agree with everything derwill has written here today. Well said, derwill!

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

CaptH-- seriously for a moment. Cruz absolutely wowed me at a 2012 NYC election fundraiser, and I gave thru a local group. I said to myself this is the 'hispanic' national conservative are looking for, not that show pony Rubio. So, I'm bitterly disappointed that -- for all the world it looks like to me-- he's ego got out of control this month. Just my disappointed opinion. He's too smart not to learn from this-- I'm optimistic about that.

Hey narc-- if you want to pitch in for the cause in Ct. I'm sure I'll see you in Nov 2014 ready to challenge Drunken Dan Malloy votes in Bridgeport, like I did in '10 (until Foley pulled the plug even though the margin was only 16,000 votes, to this day I don't know why he did that) and I will do again in '14. We 'band of brothers, we happy few' in Blue Hells appreciate the help.

[narciso]

What iid the Searchlight Strangler say about the Cancer funding fill 'why would I want to save a single child ,when I have 1100 civilians at Nellis,'

[AliceH]

narciso - unfair. Reid is a winner. He wins elections. That's what matters.

[rse]

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2013/10/17/remembering-america/?singlepage=true lays out what many of us are feeling.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

For those of you who want to help out in the Blue Hell of Ct-- here's the Wiki description about the 2010 Bridgeport vote/Judge fraud, that repubs/conservatives in Ct were ready to fight like hell over-- Foley quickly pulled the plug-- to this day I was never told why (maybe TomM knows).

Bridgeport ballot shortage[edit]A dozen polling locations in the city of Bridgeport ran out of ballots on Election Day, leading to a ruling by Superior Court Judge Marshall K. Berger, Jr., for the polls to remain open at the affected polling sites until 10 p.m., two hours later than the normal statewide 8 p.m. closing time, in order for disenfranchised voters to return to vote on newly printed ballots.[53] Bridgeport officials had initially ordered only 21,000 ballots, despite there being over 69,000[53] registered voters in the city.

With all votes counted, with the exception of Bridgeport, Republican Tom Foley held a slight lead in the popular vote (556,787 to 548,378). Once the ballots from Bridgeport were counted, Democrat Dan Malloy was declared the winner by Secretary of the State Susan Bysiewicz, who, according to the Stamford Advocate, based her announcement on preliminary, "informal totals. ... That does not include uncounted absentee ballots."[54] Byseiwicz's announcement conflicted with the latest statewide tallies compiled by Foley's team and the non-partisan Associated Press, both of which indicated Foley to be in the lead by a thin margin.[54]

Judge Berger did state in his ruling that all votes submitted after 8 p.m. would be counted as provisional ballots and kept separate from the others. The state Republican Party threatened a legal challenge.[53]

On November 8, Foley, though still concerned over the election's handling and precise vote totals, conceded the election, stating, "The election on Tuesday was a conclusive victory for Dan Malloy, and this result should not be questioned."[55]

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Yes, Alice; and it's all Sharron Angle's fault for time traveling back to 1986 and losing every six years to the alleged pederast.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Don't we want to win Congressional votes, convince persuadable, and win elections so we can implement those conservative principles and they have the force of law?

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

Questions for discussion:

What parts of the "GOP Brand" have been damaged by this exercise?

Are any of them worth keeping?

I think most of us here on JOM will agree that the GOP brand has not been very appealing to people like us since Reagan left office.

[MarkO]

"the better way was INSTEAD of defund, for the House to pass a pre-Oct 1st CR with things that Senate Dems did not want to vote against"

Do you really think Reid would have put such a bill to a vote? Why?

[Porchlight]

This was the Cantotr/Ryan plan-- the House conservatives/cruz attacked that plan as too weak-- defund or nothing.

NK, I can't see any reason why the Senate/WH wouldn't have treated the Cantor/Ryan plan exactly the same way.

[Account Deleted]

"Ted Cruz and the Tea Party are a very real threat to the GOP"

Derwill,

I see Cruz/DeMint as change agents rather than threats. DeMint is operating with the Tea Party label in a strong effort to squash the squishes and force the GOP to shift away from the bathhouse boys and business as usual. DeMint is running a definite "horses for courses" operation and he didn't waste any money on Lonegan's effort to win the Torricelli seat. He understands that while a spaghetti spined loud mouth such as Christie might have a chance in New Jersey, an actual Tea Party candidate was bound to come up short.

I believe Demint to be targeting Michigan (with Land) for one GOP pick up plus Cotton in Arkansas for another while pithing Miz Lindsey and Pat Roberts in primaries. He may have other seats in mind but I'm pretty sure of those four.

[jimmyk on iPad]

"I'm pretty sure they renamed the Redskins."

And gave Mrs. Lautenberg $184,000.

[Beasts of England]

Don't the Freemasons have those creepy pajamas just like Romney?

[jimmyk on iPad]

"ANYTHING other than a blank check was 'Repub blackmail' and would have resulted in a shutdown."

Precisely. All the woulda coulda shouldas overlook the fact that the real necessity was to stare down Barry and win the game of chicken, letting him know in no uncertain terms that he would be impeached if he chose to default. The options NK suggests were tried and dismissed without any registerable impact on those "persuadables" he is so sure that he knows.

[derwill]

When was the last time the GOP won an election?

Oh yeah, it was 2010 when the Tea Party movement spoke out against TARP, the Porkulus, and Obamacare and got out the vote for certain candidates, enough of which won to give the House to the Republicans.

[Porchlight]

NK, pretty sure someone told Foley it was hopeless. The necessary ballots for Malloy would be "found" and there wasn't a damn thing anyone was going to be able to do about it and Foley would be hammered for wasting money on a recount. Maybe Foley didn't want to put his family through any more, I don't know.

[Sandy Daze]

How I see it:

Ted Cruz in the Senate speaking about aca.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-- stuff Calvin Coolidge said.

[AliceH]

Yes, thank you CH. Join me on the dark side!

[Porchlight]

Sandy Daze, I have that Coolidge quotation printed up right next to my monitor!

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

I'm ready for the journey, Alice.

[Beasts of England]

I thought it was old age and treachery, Sandy Daze?

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Porch@219-- I think that's right, BUT (this is a huge BUT) then Reid would have caused the shutdown, and to end the shutdown Reid/Obummer would have had to put to a Senate vote a 'clean' CR for 1 YEAR at HIGHER than sequester spending, and the vulnerable Senate Dems would have hated that vote, because persuadables would have hated a 1 year CR with HIGHER spending. THAT was the kind of vote to make Senate Dems swallow. Que sera, sera.

RickB@2:20-- I think tou're right and I hope you're right. IMO the TP/Repub 'schism' is mostly a personality/power fight between Mccain-Rove and young TPs like Cruz. My hope is that the repubs/TP realize they need each other and act accordingly. Here's hoping.

[Threadkiller]

I had nothing to do with a consent decree, NK.

[jimmyk]

"the persuadables" = deus ex machina

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

This was the favorite slogan of my first and favorite law firm mentor. He used it to good effect particularly after he had given me sound advice about thorny matters. I have used it as well over the years. I hadn't realized it came from CC.

[Trevor Saccucci]

And well it may be. But the party I want must, above all, be able to win elections. If it is connfined to the TP faction, it cannot do that

And if that party wins, so what? That party, with its current makeup or a makeup of "most conservative electables" - who certainly don't include those unreasonable Tea Party-types - will get you ObamaEverything as surely as the full-bore statists will, just at a slower pace.

House and Senate Republicans are no more different than opposing football teams at this point; they're playing the same game, with the same goals, but with slightly differing strategies. The Republicans just happen to have a few people who cheese of both sides' coaches and managers because they just aren't team players. Switch uniforms between teams and, save for the Republican troublemakers, you'd be hard-pressed to spot any significant differences between them.

As I think the American electorate dosen't want to be told that Uncle Sugar's candy will rot their teeth, and he's running out of sugar to boot, suspect that the majority of House and Senate members will probably best be characterized as Full-bore Statist and Statist Lite rather than Democrat and Republican, with not enough Conservatives to effectively disarm the Debt Bomb and the Debt Bomb State.

This leaves you with the ashes of ObamaEverything to work with in trying to restore the US to being a rational and sustainable limited-government constitutional republic. I'm not saying I like the odds of this happening; I'm saying that ObamaEverything is the most likely outcome of all of the scenarios being discussed here, and that thinking about how to get the most positive outcome from it is more profitable than arguing the relative merits of Republican or Democrat pathways to the Debt Bomb State.

[Manuel Transmission]

An observation about Squaredance and the reactions he invokes around here. IIRC, he is a survivor of one of the dull grey Eastern bloc thugocracies. In that context, I envision him as a grizzled, war weary sergeant staring at a bunch of recruits just off the boat with their six-week basic training under their belt. In that context 'you' = a bunch of soft, green complainers without the taste of blood in your mouths. In that context, he has seen it all before and can't believe we are so clueless as to what is coming. I think there is a grain of truth in that.

Now, given all the debate about the near-inevitable demise of this Republic, I can sympathize with his perspective, minus the, perhaps, unintended insults directed at us as a group. Here is my question to all of you: given that we face one of three possible futures a) a continual decline that probably accelerates as OPM disappears, b) a miraculous reversal as the country collectively slaps its forehead and votes away this disaster, or c) begin irrigating the Tree of Liberty, where do YOU draw the line? It hits me that we are behaving a bit like JEF and are successively drawing red lines and backing away each time as the last line gets crossed.

We have our St. Janes as an escape, but really? Are we all going over some border like the Royalists going to Canada? At what point do we turn around and dig in our heals? I'm not arguing that the time is now, I'm just worried that we are putting off that decision until it may be too late.

Last thought: Jonah says that fascism comes this time with a smiley face. Does the (so far) lack of citizens being shot by the storm troopers prevent an armed rebellion from ever being the viable alternative?

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Porch-- Foley-- I'm telling you, IMO,we had them cold in court, we could prove ...ahem... election violations, and far more than 6,000 Bridgeport votes would have to have been invalidated as a matter of law-- IMO NON-election lawyer opinion. And my sense was that the Dem officials were in no hurry to back up those 'votes'. Foley didn't want the fight, maybe he didn't even want the job.

SandyD-- I agree with the sentiment. I also agree with the British Army and USMC doctrine which holds that they never 'retreat'-- but sometimes the British Army 'withdraws' and somwetimes the USMC 'advances in a different direction'.

[AliceH]

A lot of this "TP and Establishment need to compromise and work together" stuff sounds a whole like "TP shut up and let the Establishment do their jobs - their professionals. Oh, and don't forget to vote and donate to RNC, NRSC, NRCC and your local friendly GOP approved candidates!"

Meh. The democrats don't try to make me pay to compromise my principles -- they just take the money out my pocket like the honest thieves they are.

[centralcal]

Posting this only because her name has appeared in threads the past few days and because, honestly, it is one of the best laughs I have had in awhile. (giggle)

Sean Trende ‏@SeanTrende 4m

Epic. It's the only word. @RalstonReports Oh. My. God. @SharronAngle's PAC's ad must be seen to be believed: http://www.conservativecommandosradioshow.com

[narciso]

The Business roundtable, per Engler was bought off with the delay of the employer mandate, as were the phamarmaceuticals and insurance last time, how much did Karl Rove get 150 million last time, and delivered Carolonica , i'm being charitable,

[hit and run]

Ext:
Instead, we got individual mandate delay, device tax repeal and I can't even remember what else.

I think Obamacare was amended so that parents with kids under the age of 26 who manage to sign up on the exchanges can be included at no charge on their kids' insurance . . . for free.

[jimmyk]

Since Trevor brought this over from the last thread, I'll repeat my comment that got orphaned there:

"If it is connfined to the TP faction, it cannot do that, just as it can't win if it is all McCains."

Well now you've lost me. Consensus behind either faction will lose but disunity is also damaging in your view. Is their some fourth option I'm not seeing?

[Incidentally, by "TP faction" I really mean the conservative wing of the party, not literally the TP whatever that is.]

[Porchlight]

Foley didn't want the fight, maybe he didn't even want the job.

I agree he didn't want the fight. But just because we ought to have won it doesn't mean we would have. Look at Coleman/Franken - and Bpt is more corrupt than Minny. I've lived in both Fairfield and Mpls, I know.

[Porchlight]

Porch@219-- I think that's right, BUT (this is a huge BUT) then Reid would have caused the shutdown, and to end the shutdown Reid/Obummer would have had to put to a Senate vote a 'clean' CR for 1 YEAR at HIGHER than sequester spending, and the vulnerable Senate Dems would have hated that vote, because persuadables would have hated a 1 year CR with HIGHER spending. THAT was the kind of vote to make Senate Dems swallow. Que sera, sera.

Reid DID cause the shutdown, and no such vote was put to the Senate. This is alternate history fantasy.

[jimmyk]

cc's 2:43 link is fantastic. Worth viewing to the very end.

[Jim Eagle]

Amen, Sandy, Amen!

I'm a Catholic but my paternal grandfather (Episcopalian) was the highest ranking Master in New York State and founded not one but two lodges - Sag Harbor and Southampton's "Old Town Lodge". I donated all his memorabilia, Masonic rings, awards, photographs, artwork and books to the Lodge. I did save one item - his framed certification of his election to Master, 3rd Degree.

He would be smiling and shaking his head right now if he heard the nut job Steno.

At the same time he loved and accepted my Mother and her Irish-Catholic roots. He had no objection to us kids being raised catholic and in fact, supported the local catholic school we attended. Marvelous man of great integrity and discipline.

[Old Lurker]

TC on the other thread: "I do think the GOP still has a chance to stick it to the Dems but good. In the next debt limit dance, the House should send over two bills, one containing the repeal of 404Care and the other containing requirements alleviating the most annoying parts of the 404Care website."

Except that the next debt limit dance in Jan/Feb is pre-approved by last night's law unless the Congress can pass a veto proof law denying Obama the right to sell those bonds. Since the Senate of course will not even act on such a law if proposed by the House, Reps so tired of this last fight that they ceded the next one or more.

See how much easier it is to govern when we ...don't?

[narciso]

So Mally was illegitimately elected, that's why he doesn't care what he does,

[Publius of Idaho]

Now that the Vichy Republicans folded their hand, the Admin. shows the card up it's sleeve according to a story buried, appropriately enough, on page C4 of today's WSJ.

Yesteday Jack Lew sold 189 day cash-management bills, the longest-dated bills that the U.S. has issued since October 2009. The money raised through the cash-management bills, along with other short-term bills, would bring in a total of $133 billion in cash this week for the Tresury-- more than enough to cover $120 billion in bills due on Thursday.

The GOP threw in their straignt flush to a pair of duces.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

When did Reid put Obummer's 1 year CR with higher spending (sequester rescinded) to a Senate vote? When did he do that? The first Senate vote was the House defund CR, then there were POST shutdown Senate votes adopting the House individual funding bills, then there was McConnell's final bill. When did Reid put Obummer's CR to a vote?

[narciso]

Between brain slugs, a mment of awareness;

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/

[Some Guy]

That party, with its current makeup or a makeup of "most conservative electables" - who certainly don't include those unreasonable Tea Party-types - will get you ObamaEverything as surely as the full-bore statists will, just at a slower pace.

I strongly disagree with this.

Well, only in that it will get you there at a *faster* pace. By acting as ineffective foils who have no viable alternative or any vision for that matter, they enhance the pace rather than retard it.

They provide either the cover of "bipartisanship" or the easily slain dragon of no teeth or fire. Which only accelerates statist gains, but never puts any brakes on it.

[rse]

The BR is heavily involved in pushing the Common Core. For Corporatist reasons I lay out as being the vision for going after the West's wealth and high levels of technology.

MT-I know Jonah wrote that but the barrycades and National Park antics and by any means necessary intentions and parents all over the country being told that nothing can prevent the participation and collection of data about their kids in these statewide longitudinal databases are all building up to a confrontation somewhere.

Remember the motto "irreversible change?" That's what we are living through now and the idea is to achieve that with a sufficient voting majority to make opposition moot. But as I wrote yesterday the Left erroneously assumes the economy IS a fixed pie. They really are unaware they are consuming seed corn that cannot be replaced. Those they are encouraging dependence in certainly do not realize that.

Truly uncharted territory but we will push through this and none of us have blinders on about what is happening or the implications. And we do in fact know how to push through.

[MarkO]

What Porch said!

[Old Lurker]

Has anyone here read the actual law yet on the next increase? (I have not so it is a serious question) Reason I ask is I just heard that the "deemed approved" check we gave Obama for Jan-Feb actually does not have a dollar limit in it. So why wouldn't he just borrow a gazillion dollars and park them for use by his team when they need to dip into them?

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Publius, as Tom McClintock stated eloquently there was never any danger of default unless the Indonesian took steps to make it happen.

[NK(tryin'2.0)]

Dan Malloy doesn't care what he does... because he's an idiot (he claims to have reading disabilty, personally I think he's a drunk/junky like his son). You know what.... I don't think Malloy wants the job either. His sellout to the Public Unions with the tax increase pissed off rich libs, and left the Unions pissed off with the tiny concessions they had to make.. oh, and then there's the bankruptcy for the State, because the State is in an irrevesible spiral of collapsing job base and pension obligations. Who wants to be governor of Ct? Paging Tom Maguire, Governor Tom Maguire!