Obama really didn't know about the NSA surveillance of foreign leaders until the review he did or didn't order last summer?
George Bush has been quite curcumspect but Dick Cheney has been outspoken in his disdain for Obama. Presumably, he will eventually be asked whether he and Bush were aware of surveillance of foreign leaders.
I can't picture him pleading ignorance.
A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not.
-RR
Posted by: whodat | October 28, 2013 at 02:32 PM
I love how the "but some past Republican did something sort of like that once" is such a popular "defense" of the Left. That argument is only tangentially relevant if the Right has changed position on the issue in question. Failing that (as it so often does), it's meaningless - mere misdirection.
Posted by: AliceH | October 28, 2013 at 02:50 PM
"A few months ago..."
Notice he didn't say "five years ago," Dana.
Posted by: Danube on iPad | October 28, 2013 at 02:53 PM
"You're damn right I ordered that Code Red!"
proudly so.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 03:00 PM
What obsession with Reagan?
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone | October 28, 2013 at 03:03 PM
Yeah, Cheney wouldn't allow himself to be exposed in such a stupid way that Obama did.
Posted by: tollhouse | October 28, 2013 at 03:03 PM
I hope this is a disinformation campaign by Prez 404 and his people. I would expect a POTUS to be aware of an initiative to spy on allies. It is believable that Prez 404 didn't know the details of the times that Frau Angie and others were on the phone or texting.
The truly disturbing thing about this is if ValJar decided that Prez 404 needed to be kept out of the loop on this.
I'm guessing and hoping that this is the plausible deniability card being played for reasons of reason of state.
Posted by: Thomas Collins | October 28, 2013 at 03:05 PM
Maybe we bugged Merkel at "The Behest of Dick Cheney."
As I recall "Dick Cheney's Behesting" was the word of the day back when he and "W" were in the White House.
Posted by: daddy | October 28, 2013 at 03:10 PM
I actually like the fact that whodat brought up Gipper in the context of a Prez 404 discussion. After all, they are both "bring down" Presidents. Gipper brought down the Sovs, and 404 is in the process of bringing down our health care system.
Posted by: Thomas Collins | October 28, 2013 at 03:13 PM
--"A few months ago..."
Notice he didn't say "five years ago," Dana.
Posted by: Danube on iPad | October 28, 2013 at 02:53 PM --
Tut, tut; I have scrupulously avoided responding to WeeDavey per our agreement.
I'd say I have probable cause for a breach of contract cause of action. Hmm, now then, what were my actual damages?
Posted by: Ignatz | October 28, 2013 at 03:14 PM
TC, it might be easier to compile a list of what Preznit 404 is allowed to have knowledge of; based on his pressers I can't think of anything not related to ESPN.
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone | October 28, 2013 at 03:15 PM
Plus dana's perpetuating another lie.
Posted by: Clarice | October 28, 2013 at 03:15 PM
One other difference between RR and Obummer-
RR's Intel Op is exposed, RR engages in Mea Culpa;
Obummer's snooping is exposed, Obummer engages in THEYA Culpa.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 03:18 PM
RR was called an "amiable dunce" by Clark Clifford
404 was called " " by Clark Clifford
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPhone | October 28, 2013 at 03:23 PM
Two things:
'Extortion': Holder Abuses Law to Enrich Former Employer, Target Republicans
CGI Federal executive spent ‘Christmas with the Obamas’
Posted by: Jane-Rebel Alliance1 | October 28, 2013 at 03:25 PM
Sounds conspiratorial.
Posted by: Threadkiller | October 28, 2013 at 03:27 PM
Remember, this is the same "What? Me Worry?" president who doesn't know about any of the scandals rocking his administration or just about anything at all, come to think about it.
"Mr. President! What didn't you know and when didn't you know it?"
Posted by: matt | October 28, 2013 at 03:33 PM
"
TKJane, you are ruining a wonderful board. Truly. I can't forgive you for spattering this place up and interfering with all discussions to continue with your pointless obsession."(Standard response to conspiracy links)
Posted by: Threadkiller | October 28, 2013 at 03:43 PM
TC postes this question on the previous thread which I just caught up to.
Here's a query for those who know something about Virginia demographics and voting patterns (which I don't): Is Cuccinelli doing worse than usual in reddish areas, or are his problems with McAuliffe due to increasing population growth in Northern Virginia? Or perhaps a combination of both?
I don't know about Virginia Demographics, but my guess is that it is the same problem we have up here in Alaska. Most of the new jobs we have had up here over the last 4-5 years that I am aware of, are jobs for Government workers, mostly Federal. The private marketplace it expanding hardly at all, but every time I open up the paper, some new Government Environmental Studies Bureau or Walrus Board or Climate Think Tank or Polar Bear Research Group is opened, and invariably the people who fill those positions are not people who want to utilize our assets but are committed Leftists who want to limit our ability to use our assets,l and they vote accordingly---and they want to make walk our dogs on leashes, because that's how they did it back in wherever the hell they come from.
That's what we get up her as new voters, overwhelming the aging rugged individualists of old that used to make this state work. My guess is that in Virginia the new arriving folks are arriving because of Federal jobs, and people who show up for those jobs are not Tea Party Americans but are instead folks beholden to Govt getting bigger and bigger.
BTW, I'm the Anchorage Airport lounge doing Margarita's. I'm in coach heading south.
The obscene First Class service doesn't start till tomorrow.
Posted by: daddy | October 28, 2013 at 03:44 PM
Sorry for all the trouble I have caused, TM.
Good luck.
Posted by: Threadkiller | October 28, 2013 at 03:46 PM
TK,
I'm not in the mood. Often I wonder if you are 12.
Posted by: Jane-Rebel Alliance1 | October 28, 2013 at 03:46 PM
NHS pulls the plug on its £11bn IT system
After nine years and with billions already spent, doomed computer system is abandoned
"The department has been unable to demonstrate what benefits have been delivered from the £2.7bn spent on the project so far,"
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-pulls-the-plug-on-its-11bn-it-system-2330906.html
the progs love to point to this system as a success
More On Topic, Cheney would probably say Obama and clown posse are the worst admin in US history
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 03:48 PM
Alaskan Company Suspends Obamacare Enrollments, Cites Faulty Subsidy Calculator
Enroll Alaska, an organization that was specifically created to aid Alaskans in enrolling for Obamacare, has thrown in the towel, at least for the time being.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 03:50 PM
Here’s how Obamacare makes life hell for college profs
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/27/heres-how-obamacare-makes-life-hell-for-college-profs/#ixzz2j33Jq1He
since probably 80% of them voted for Preznit Foodstamps, I say tough luck suckers
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 03:54 PM
Jane, 12 year olds would have already grown bored and moved on.
Posted by: Sue | October 28, 2013 at 03:54 PM
Let us remember just how left wing even BillyJeff was prior to the 1994 cataclysm. It was only his placing self above principle that anyone can dare to believe him a centrist.
Iggy comment from previous thread but I buy it completely.
Posted by: daddy | October 28, 2013 at 03:56 PM
windansea:
Another portion of O-care -the subsidy calculator-bites the dust. This is the ultimate fail. No wonder Barry wanted this launch to occur 10 months after the 2012 election.
Posted by: maryrose | October 28, 2013 at 03:58 PM
daddy:
What do you think of Barry's Alaskan version of a subsidy calculator? Can't wait to here your report of your first class trip tomorrow.
Posted by: maryrose | October 28, 2013 at 04:00 PM
Daddy-- watched a cable Doc saturday evening-- is USA Flight navigation still primarily 'zig zag' radar stations based on the the original FAA beacons, and GPS is only a drawing board replacement (Test program in Alaska)?
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 04:08 PM
We know now, he had already signed the signed the CRA revisions, which along with Reno's nudging had set the fuse for the economic crisis, 15 years later, the only real cuts were in defense and intelligence, http://twitchy.com/2013/10/28/didnt-know-he-didnt-know-what-was-going-on-blissfully-unaware-president-sparks-mockery/ly
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 04:09 PM
The journal suggests that there was no one who was coordinating the integration of the health care site, with the rest of the program
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 04:12 PM
Narciso-- I thought the Obamaniacs confessed to that last week at the House hearing =, when the CGI execs (the ones who work for a living, not that scammer Mooschelle crony) pushed back and said there was no SI expert, and HHS admitted they were doing that--or not-- on their own.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 04:16 PM
It was only his placing self above principle that anyone can dare to believe him a centrist.
I agree with Iggy's comment re Clinton, but how to explain the JEF's persistence in the face of events, he who places self above everything? That he is delusional? Or that his devotion to himself is so overwhelming that to admit a mistake is impossible?
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 04:24 PM
jimmyk:
Barry will never admit a mistake or even acknowledge that he made one. He is the consummate narcissist and doesn't realize his own limitations. He knew about all these scandals but the media and the WH allow him plausible deniability. We are forced into the position of proving that he knew. All his tracks have been covered as they would be in the perfect crime.
Posted by: maryrose | October 28, 2013 at 04:28 PM
No, he's a conman, ala Billy Valentine, which prompted the whole 'Duke and Duke' meme,
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 04:31 PM
Well, he really was a heartless bastard back then . . . maybe he's mellowed since the change. But I'm pretty sure I heard something like:
Posted by: Cecil Turner | October 28, 2013 at 04:38 PM
They didn't know? Really, our Security apparatus is just a loaded, loose cannon on the deck.
How would you expect any command and control for the loosie?
Isn't that the very idea behind the concept?
They hit something intentionally on occasion, so it's all good.
Posted by: Les Nessman | October 28, 2013 at 04:39 PM
""Don't hack my pacemaker, Bro!""
I wonder if that's how he cut in line for the sump pump.
Posted by: Les Nessman | October 28, 2013 at 04:43 PM
So CNN is looking into branching out into intentional comedy, as opposed to their usual fare.
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 04:51 PM
"per our agreement."
Was not responding to Dana part of it? I'd forgotten - sorry.
No damages, but injunctive relief is available.
Posted by: Danube on iPad | October 28, 2013 at 04:57 PM
Pravda facts, following it's own Minitrue path.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/10/27/fact-checking-politifact/
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 05:01 PM
Obamacare Faces A 'Death Spiral' -- But It Turns On The Declining Participation Of Health Plans, Not Just Rising Premiums
must read, no wonder the biggies like United and Aetna declined to participate
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2013/10/28/obamacare-faces-a-death-spiral-but-it-turns-on-the-declining-participation-of-health-plans-and-not-just-their-rising-premiums/
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 05:02 PM
another lib mugged by reality
Could the president please explain why I and others are losing our health ins. plans? Wasn't supposed to happen!—
patti davis (@patti_davis) October 25, 2013
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 05:07 PM
Explosion & gunfire near US Embassy in Yemen. Via Drudge. No details they.
Posted by: henry | October 28, 2013 at 05:08 PM
David Burge links to the original Obamalies on health care. Comedy gold. Or maybe black comedy, if that's not racist.
David Burge @iowahawkblog 47m
Every damn word was a lie, including "a" and "the" http://web.archive.org/web/20081221095737/http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf">http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf">http://web.archive.org/web/20081221095737/http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf …
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 05:10 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXoRYbgCAAA3anR.jpg
Father knows best :) should have payed more attention Patti
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 05:11 PM
oops, let me try that link again:
http://web.archive.org/web/20081221095737/http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf">http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf">http://web.archive.org/web/20081221095737/http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 05:11 PM
Sorry, it looks ok on preview. I refer you to https://twitter.com/iowahawkblog
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 05:13 PM
Iowahawk calls this the feel good story of the century
“I spent two years defending Obamacare. I had constituents scream at me, spit at me and call me names that I can’t put in print. The congressman was not re-elected in 2010 mainly because of the anti-Obamacare anger. When the congressman was not re-elected, I also (along with the rest of our staff) lost my job. I was upset that because of the health care issue, I didn’t have a job anymore but still defended Obamacare because it would make health care available to everyone at, what I assumed, would be an affordable price. I have now learned that I was wrong. Very wrong.”
http://www.suntimes.com/news/marin/23352031-452/obamacare-jacks-up-her-insurance.html
Posted by: windansea | October 28, 2013 at 05:15 PM
Explosion & gunfire near US Embassy in Yemen. Via Drudge. No details they.
What difference does it make?
Posted by: Jane-Rebel Alliance1 | October 28, 2013 at 05:15 PM
Blue Hell canary Detroit bankruptcy means pensions cut to 16 cents per dollar.
Posted by: henry | October 28, 2013 at 05:16 PM
From that Obama 2008 campaign pack of lies that Iowahawk links to:
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 05:18 PM
Public employees should consider themselves lucky to get any pension at all.
Although i don't know why conservatives would want to decorate those warts with their tinsel.
Posted by: Les Nessman | October 28, 2013 at 05:21 PM
I always assumed we tried to bug all foreign leaders, as I assume they try to bug us.
The problem we are faced with that it became public. Obama could have pulled the "rogue elements acting without my approval" card, which would have given Merkel a face-saving way to not be publicly upset.
However, since they first denied it, then said Obama didn't know, they put Merkel in the awkward position of having to make a fuss, as well as somehow implying that we have a president who doesn't know what in the hell is going on.
This is bad, as it shows foreign leaders that he is too damned stupid to use diplomatic terms (which we already knew) and that he is incompetent (which we also knew). Our enemies will take note of this.
In addition, this ham-handed series of statements has given further credibility to Snowden, who right now can accuse Obama of sacrificing Bo's puppies in a Santeria ritual in the White House basement, and people will probably believe it.
Posted by: Miss Marple | October 28, 2013 at 05:36 PM
Why is anyone crediting Obama's clear lie that he knew nothing about the spying?
Either he is a liar (which he is) or he is the most incompetent head of any government ever.
Posted by: MarkO | October 28, 2013 at 05:52 PM
"Pensions cut to 16 cents on the dollar"
Nope. That's a misinterpretation of crap reporting by Reuters. The 16 cents refers to the unfunded portion of pension liabilities, the funded portion is out of reach in bankruptcy. The unfunded portion is lumped in with unsecured debt - all those vendors who are going to get screwed right into the ground in Detroit au Prince.
The really nasty aspect is Kwame getting 28 years. He's the fall guy but there's a cast of thousands who deserve the cell next to him.
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 05:52 PM
Janet, any word on Obamacare in Virginia. I should think if the experience there is like the experience elsewhere that should hurt McGoniff.
Posted by: Clarice | October 28, 2013 at 05:57 PM
BTW - the crap reporting by Reuters is intentional. They're trying to elicit handwringing and tears for the poor pensioners having to take a haircut for the misfeasance, malfeasance and fraud committed in Detroit - BY THE POLS TO WHOM THEY SLAVISHLY GAVE THEIR VOTES IN EXCHANGE FOR EXORBITANT PENSIONS.
I can't gin up anything more than a chuckle over their plight.
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 05:58 PM
That he is delusional? Or that his devotion to himself is so overwhelming that to admit a mistake is impossible?
Posted by: jimmyk
Isn't this the same guy who said something to the affect that the definition of sin is not being in accord with his values?
Should have been locked in a padded cell then-and-there.
Posted by: rich@gmu | October 28, 2013 at 05:59 PM
Me neither, Rick. Talk about getting the government you deserve.
Posted by: Porchlight | October 28, 2013 at 06:02 PM
Ah, that makes sense Rick. Thanks!
Posted by: henry | October 28, 2013 at 06:04 PM
RickB-- what % of the Detroit Pensions are funded? a lot less than 50% I bet, then there is the matter of the ROI of the 'funded' pensions, are they realyl gonna earn 8% ROI?, noooo, and when they don't? zero Detroit Dollars will be added. These 23,000 pensioners are doomed, and Kwame's in no position to help them. Obummer? right let him bring up bailing out Detroit's pensions, that leads to a wonderful discussion of the solvency of Soc Sec and Medicare, and the expansion of medicaid for parasites. Just the discussion Obummer wants to have right now.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:05 PM
Either he is a liar (which he is) or he is the most incompetent head of any government ever.
Liar.Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:06 PM
So he's not even a competent liar?
Posted by: Miss Anne Thrope. | October 28, 2013 at 06:09 PM
Actually, the only real skill Obama has is lying. I don't believe anything he has ever said.
Posted by: MarkO | October 28, 2013 at 06:11 PM
BY THE POLS TO WHOM THEY SLAVISHLY GAVE THEIR VOTES IN EXCHANGE FOR EXORBITANT PENSIONS.
And in those fat return years, the fund managers gave pensioners a "13th month bonus." But don't worry, the fund managers "added" more to the funds in lean return years, right? And when returns kept falling, the managers raced into illiquid Private Equity because they never have down years or posivite correlation to traditional--liquid--asset classes, right?
Posted by: lyle | October 28, 2013 at 06:12 PM
*positive*
Posted by: lyle | October 28, 2013 at 06:14 PM
Detroit's pensions were in better shape than I thought-- accordiing to Moody's 69% funded (see link below). The City is $3B short of meeting pension liabilities. So end of the day, looks like pensioners will get almost 75% of what was promised them. They are doing a heck of alot better than bondholders. The City will be locked out of credit markets, for a very long time. They'll ony be able to get what the State guarantees. http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/publications/detail/the-real-size-of-detroits-pension-funding-gap
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:14 PM
"what % of the Detroit Pensions are funded?"
The Detroit General Worker Fund is at 77%. Police and Fire are at 100%. Orr acknowledges that cuts to Police and Fire pensions aren't necessary. He wants to go to 401Ks going forward though.
Health insurance for retirees is a completely different matter. They're going to be dumped.
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 06:16 PM
Clarice, This is all I've heard -
"CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield is being forced to cancel plans that currently cover 76,000 individuals in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C., due to changes made by President Obama's health care law, the company told the Washington Examiner today."
http://washingtonexaminer.com/carefirst-says-76000-customers-will-lose-current-coverage-due-to-obamacare/article/2537782
Posted by: Janet | October 28, 2013 at 06:17 PM
Police/Fire go to 401K-- OMG, those city employees have to live on the same thing the rest of us do. The Humanity!
Pensioners go to Exchanges for healthcare-- probably don't even get subsidies. Heh heh.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:21 PM
NK, that link is from back in June, not sure how accurate it is.
The unfunded portion is lumped in with unsecured debt
And who gets paid first? Or is it basically split between them?
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 06:21 PM
'the question is moot', there will be a document that will likely surface in this week or next, since nothing about surveillance protocols is inaccessible,
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 06:21 PM
Ron Fornier:
Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:23 PM
Explosion & gunfire near US Embassy in Yemen.
Did someone make a crappy youtube video again?
Posted by: jimmyk | October 28, 2013 at 06:24 PM
Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:24 PM
hey dad how are you LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLO
Lv,
Frederick
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 28, 2013 at 06:27 PM
JimmyK-- moody's estimated in June 69%, RickB's claims 77% funded (prio to Orr City CLAIMED 91% funded). So as RickB explainedhe pensioners will get the majority (I figure75+%) of promised pensions. The unsecured debts split? On friday, the City's witness testified that pensioners and Bondholders will get the same % split. So the City is as generous to pensioners as possible-- but sticking it to the Bondholders that way will have consequences for future borrowing attempts.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:27 PM
Sorry about that but left my computer for a minute and this is what I get:)
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 28, 2013 at 06:29 PM
"And who gets paid first?"
Once their claim is verified, every unsecured debtor is in a very democratic position where no one is actually more equal. It ain't a matter of "first", it's a matter of "how much are we divvyin' up?".
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 06:30 PM
"And who gets paid first?"
Once their claim is verified, every unsecured debtor is in a very democratic position where no one is actually more equal. It ain't a matter of "first", it's a matter of "how much are we divvyin' up?".
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 06:30 PM
Extraneus,
Many of the dim bulb girls where I get my hair done thought as little as late summer that they were getting FREE health care.
Obama left that impression as did many of his surrogates, in the clever ways they phrased things.
A fair portion of the electorate doesn't understand basic arithmetic, let alone insurance and the math used to establish risk and rates. Plus they thought that Obama was a truth-teller, a messiah.
The outrage is even more pronounced than from those of us who knew what to expect.
I intend to hang this debacle around the dem necks like a flock of albatrosses.
Posted by: Miss Marple | October 28, 2013 at 06:30 PM
Question for Jay Carney: Didn’t Obama lie when he told people, “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan”? Update: Obama knew for at least three years
Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:32 PM
You know that thing he said he didn't know about, well he's not going to do it anymore;
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304200804579164083658333034?mod=e2tw
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 06:35 PM
Federal judge rules part of Texas' new abortion law is unconstitutional
Can we start calling them "doctors" now?Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:36 PM
In addition, this ham-handed series of statements has given further credibility to Snowden, who right now can accuse Obama of sacrificing Bo's puppies in a Santeria ritual in the White House basement, and people will probably believe it.
I can pretty much picture Zero and his pals doing exactly that, actually.
The only reason I could imagine for disbelieving it might be that Zero would be too lazy to actually conduct the ritual himself, or if it interfered with catching the 11 PM edition of Sportscenter.
Posted by: James D. | October 28, 2013 at 06:36 PM
The Debt Bomb-- link below to California-- $300+BILLION in unfunded pension Obligations, and 12,000+ retirees earning $100,000+ annual pensions PLUS Healthcare for life. California is doomed; Illinois 44% funded-- Illinois is doomed. The California and Ilinois defaults will be spectacular in their scale.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:37 PM
""CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield is being forced to cancel plans"
Probably indemnity plans which have scheduled surgery benefits.
They reimburse like 100 bucks for an appendectomy. It's no longer considered 'experimental' to remove infected organs.
Posted by: Miss Anne Thrope. | October 28, 2013 at 06:37 PM
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always
temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent
form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous
gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from
the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a
dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:
Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in
St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning
the last Presidential election:
Number of States won by: Obama: 19 Romney: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 Romney: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million Romney: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Obama: 13.2 Romney: 2.1
Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.
Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low
income tenements and living off various forms of government
welfare..."
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase..
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million
criminal invaders called illegal’s - and they vote - then we can say
goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.
If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how
much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our
freedom..
Posted by: A Patriot | October 28, 2013 at 06:38 PM
the link: http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/publications/detail/california-on-the-brink-pension-crisis-about-to-get-worse?f=puball
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:38 PM
Hey, so who's the best candidate so far? Here are the names from Real Clear Politics:
I'm for Cruz based on this field, but would consider Walker if he's in. (I like Paul, too, but I think he's too much of a nerd to make it.)
Are there any others (and don't tell me Santorum)?
Do any of these dudes ride Harleys?
Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 06:47 PM
Clarice,
I dug into the data dump on 27 and 50 yos for Virginia and it looks like a 50 yo will be paying 50-75% more. The 404Care.fail will keep that hidden until after the election.
How fortuitous for McAuliffe.
Posted by: Account Deleted | October 28, 2013 at 06:47 PM
Here's an extreme example of living in the Leftwing DC media bubble-- an executive editor of The New Republic. It is a cautionary tale for the rest of us.. living in an information bubble skews thinking. For instance, this TNR editor makes not a single reference to the political effect of looming national bankruptcy-- he assumes endless money for parasites so to him, TP opposition to endless money is 'extreme', irrational even. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115332/tea-party-going-down-dysfunction-not
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:49 PM
I like Mitch Daniels.
Posted by: NK(tryin'2.0) | October 28, 2013 at 06:50 PM
Paul
Christie
Cruz
Ryan
BushRubio
Walker
Jindal
No more Bush family, thank you very much.
Posted by: lyle | October 28, 2013 at 06:54 PM
I like Ike.
Posted by: MarkO | October 28, 2013 at 06:57 PM
He's also a confirmed socialist, and really pu the Plame brouhaha in play, long before Wilson's Times Op Ed, but he's Journolist, caveat and act accordingly,
Posted by: narciso | October 28, 2013 at 06:58 PM
I'm down on Christie, Ryan, Bush, Rubio and Jindal at this point, but I'd consider Mitch. Guess that makes me a lower-case tea party patriot, though.
Posted by: Extraneus | October 28, 2013 at 07:02 PM
Walker rides a Harley.
Posted by: henry | October 28, 2013 at 07:02 PM
Do not be surprised that some one not on that list comes out of the blue.
Like Sam Brownback or Suzanna Martinez or Nikki Haley or God forbid - ex Alaska governor Sarah Palin.
Don't focus on the CW but look to the possible not the probable.
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 28, 2013 at 07:04 PM