More BS In Defense Of ObamaCare

Matt Yglesias explains that the cancellation of non-ACA compliant plans is a good thing because the coverage they purported to offer was illusory anyway:

It’s Good That You Can’t Keep Your Insurance Plan

...

Rather than (foolishly) try to ensure that nobody could ever lose their insurance, the actual Affordable Care Act accelerated the demise of a certain class of plan. Politically, that’s now an embarrassment for the White House. Substantively, it’s a huge achievement.

The ACA cracks down on insurance rescission. It was famously difficult on the old market for people with “pre-existing conditions” to get coverage. That’s because insurance companies don’t want to cover people who are actually sick. Even healthy people generally want health insurance coverage because they might get sick. But an insurance company has no desire to actually foot the bill for a seriously ill person’s medical treatment. Hence, in the individual market the standard practice was to earn a profit selling peace of mind to healthy people, only to pivot as quickly as possible toward cancellation of the plan as soon as major bills started coming in. The ACA, rightly, puts a stop to this scam.

Matt links to the California insurance scandals of 2006-2008. The gist - once a person filed a claim for a serious illness, their insurance would be rescinded based on some minor and seemingly irrelevant non-disclosure on their application.

We do not support such behavior. On the other hand, we do support staying current with events. Faced with publicity, lawsuits and changes in California and federal law (i.e., the ACA), California insurers had already changed their behavior by 2010:

Testifying before the committee on behalf of the Dept. of Managed Health Care, Timothy Le Bas, assistant deputy director for the office of enforcement at the DMHC, said the settlements did benefit consumers, and that attention to the practice of improperly rescinded coverage had slowed the pace of rescissions.

In 2005, California insurers rescinded 1,553 policies, but in the last two years have cancelled coverage for fewer than 10 people, he said.

The initial contribution of the ACA can be summarized in one paragraph:

Rescission is permitted only for an act, practice, or omission that constitutes fraud, or an intentional misrepresentation of a material fact. Rescission is not permitted in the case of inadvertent misstatements of fact.

One might have thought that a materiality provision would have always governed rescission, which is yet another helpful reminder that thinking and the law exist in an uneasy alliance.

In any case, solving the rescission problem did not require the 1000 pages of ObamaCare and does not require the disqualification of these cancelled plans.

PILING ON: Ross Douthat is both more exhaustive and more polite but his conclusion matches mine.

Comments

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Substantively Matt's a brainless douche.

[James D.]

I hate to disagree with you, CH, but I have to. You're completely wrong about Yglesias. He's not a "brainless douche."

"Brainless douche" would be a vast improvement over what Yglesias actually is; I'm not sure the English language has any word to adequately define the stupidity and loathsomeness of Matty and his juiceboxer pals.

[GMax]

How about Suck UP? Suck Up Iglesias works for me.

[Beasts of England]

You forgot mendacious, James D.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

So I'm being taken to task for going too easy on Matty? I think I can pivot in that direction. Thanks for the feedback.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

Substantively Matt's a brainless douche.

This made me laugh. And then it got better.

[Ignatz]

--Matt links to the California insurance scandals of 2006-2008. The gist - once a person filed a claim for a serious illness, their insurance would be rescinded based on some minor and seemingly irrelevant non-disclosure on their application......In 2005, California insurers rescinded 1,553 policies, but in the last two years have cancelled coverage for fewer than 10 people, he said.--

The crisis and ensuing scandal were unbearable and widespread here in CA. For instance my wife racked up $100,000+ in last two months of 2005.

The atmosphere of rescission and fraud was so overwhelming that over the next three years she totaled another $2-300,000+ through chemo and other meds and procedures without her insurance company making a peep or denying or even contesting a single claim.

Thankfully the crisis passed and they behaved exactly the same the last five years.

[clarice]

My nephew has brain cancer which requires very expensive medication and care to remain in remission. If he loses his insurance, he'll die unlee some charity helps pay the tab. It's that simple.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Tammy Bruce is slattering everybody who says pot is not addictive.

[steve]

Claims such as Yglesias' all overlook that insurance companies have long been regulated by the states, and in many cases, by states that are very blue. Not only were the basic policies regulated, which undercuts the claim that these policies were garbage, but the states also regulated the insurance companies behavior, such as where they were accused of trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities.

[Ignatz]

Most pharmaceutical companies have non profits set up which will usually pay for expensive drugs patients or insurance can't or won't cover. In addition there are independently funded non profits which do the same thing.

[Jack is Back!]

Drudge says enrollment figures to be released this afternoon. Why not Friday night?

[Danube on iPad]

Maybe Yglesias would be interested to know that Medicare rejects about 6.5% of claims, whereas no private insurer rejects more than 3.4%.

it has long been unlawful in California for an insurer to rescind a policy because the insured got sick.

[Danube on iPad]

Note the underlying premise: you just think you like your policy. Stupid you. Matt Yglesias will tell you what you like.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

You know NY Post editors love running stories such as this: http://nypost.com/2013/11/13/editor-exodus-continues-at-nyt/

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

One of the sweetest aspects of this is that the far left must be furious with the feckless Gaylord Focker for effectively killing any chance for single payer, which was the end game all along. Err make that medium game since the destruction of the country was the end game.

I hope he's ultimately known for setting their agenda back to pre FDR status.

[Porchlight]

Note the underlying premise: you just think you like your policy. Stupid you. Matt Yglesias will tell you what you like.

Yes. This is widespread among the ACApologists and makes me angrier than their actual arguments.

[jimmyk]

Err make that medium game since the destruction of the country was the end game.

Unfortunately I think that last one is still in play.

[jimmyk]

This is widespread among the ACApologists

Yep, along with "If those selfish people would all just sign up it would be cheaper than before."

[Porchlight]

jimmyk,

Also "It's Republicans'/insurance companies' fault for opposing single payer."

Huh? Insurer CEOs were told to go along if they wanted to keep their nice companies. Republican opposition was obviously fruitless, given that ACA was passed without a single GOP vote.

They couldn't get single payer past other Democrats.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

3:30 release of Federal Exchange enrollments in Otober

[MarkO]

"Matt Yglesias will tell you what you like."

And, at no extra cost to you, will advise you that presidential fraud and lies are meaningless.

He's actually not even defending the fraud, he's arguing damages.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

let's put the over/under at 45,000-- what's your call. 6 minutes.

[Porchlight]

Schadenfreude alert (especially for DoT):

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/13/angry-house-dems-demand-obamacare-fix-from-white-house-aides-in-heated-meeting/

[Extraneus]

Angry House Dems demand ObamaCare fix from White House aides in “heated” meeting; Update: “It’s ugly”

“They’re telling us all about actuarial tables and all about how the process would work and all of this is fine and great and it would be great in a classroom and you would get an A on your test, but this isn’t about getting an A on your test, this is about ads,” said Rep. Steve Cohen, a Memphis liberal…

“It’s ugly,” said one Democratic source in the meeting. “There’s no way Obama and Pelosi will let their legacy go down in flames. I just wouldn’t want to be from a swing district right now. Or anything that closely resembles one.”…

If they stand with the White House on Friday’s vote, they face the worst of all possible worlds: Campaign ads pointing out that they not only backed Obama’s broken promise but also opposed legislation to fix it. The White House has two days, they warned, to come up with an alternative way to ensure Americans aren’t thrown off their health plans. The president has vowed to find an administrative fix—rather than a legislative one—but that has proved difficult so far.

If O-Care starts to fall apart because House Dems begin voting with the GOP en masse, that’s its epitaph. This isn’t about risk pools and premiums and egghead stuff that might conceivably make the law sustainable in the near term at least. “This is about ads.”

[Extraneus]

GMTA

[Porchlight]

Extraneus, you and I are once again on the same wavelength. :)

[MarkO]

I'll take the over because the numbers will also be fraudulent.

[centralcal]

NK: in your over/under are you factoring in "plans" still sitting in the shopping basket? I think the numbers are gonna be phoney.

[Danube on iPad]

I'll take the over, because they know there's no way to check on them.

[Porchlight]

Yep, the numbers are going to be massaged past belief.

[MarkO]

106,185

What is the definition of "signed up?" "Enrolled?" Why would we believe anything they said?

[Porchlight]

They're already saying 50K on the fed websites and another 50K on the state websites. That's supposedly not counting the numbers in shopping baskets. I think they're going to claim over 300K.

Who knows how much of that is Medicaid sign ups - let's hope some reporter will think to ask.

[Danube on iPad]

In the great wave of Schadenfreude that has engulfed me, I nearly forgot one little detail that is especially pleasant.

Remember back when the GOP had just caved on the shutdown and the polls were showing it to be in disfavor (and before this mammoth fiasco began), E.J. "Baghdad Bob" Dionne wrote an insufferably smug column telling Republicans what they needed to do going forward?

I wonder if he'll be so helpful to the Dems now.

[MarkO]

Ooops. Only 27,000 actually enrolled.

[AliceH]

Douthat rebuts Yglesias - utterly, I think.

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/13/does-individual-insurance-work/?_r=0

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Boy-- you people are quick thinkers, remind to never play poker with any of you.

[MarkO]

Boehner is the illegitimate son of Tommy Newsom.

[Danube on iPad]

106,387. Nearly a million went through the process but didn't enroll.

[Porchlight]

Hahhaa, today I love being wrong.

[MarkO]

By the way, no one has paid for a plan yet. There is no binding insurance. No policies issued.

[Porchlight]

Right on the money, about 107K total for both fed and state exchanges.

[James D.]

Why would we believe anything they said?

Good question. All the other numbers - unemployment, monthly job creation, quarterly GDP, inflation - are lies. Why should this be any different?

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

The numbers must be decreasing daily since they released them early.

[lyle]

Who knows how much of that is Medicaid sign ups - let's hope some reporter will think to ask.

Chortle.

[(A) nuther Bub]

Hahaha. And 400,000 new Medicaid users. Chew on that ratio, Obama cheerleaders.

[Porchlight]

E.J. "Baghdad Bob" Dionne wrote an insufferably smug column telling Republicans what they needed to do going forward?

Yep. That was a depressing time, but I knew it was not going to work out like the critics said about the Cruz/defund strategy. Obamacare is just too awful. It dwarfs everything. And it's just beginning.

It's going to be the most giant I-told-you-so in political history.

[Porchlight]

I know, lyle, but they are actually asking real questions these days...thank goodness. At any rate they did break down the Medicaid signups.

[Ignatz]

Um, does this number still include medicaid?

[Old Lurker]

WSJ has MarkO's 27,000 number.

[Ignatz]

Never mind.

[Porchlight]

Iggy,

They're saying (rounded figures):

Fed website: 27K
State websites: 80K
Medicaid: 396K

[Beasts of England]

A 30:1 ratio of cancelled plans to new enrollees?

Progress!

[Jack is Back!]

I think I have figured out one of the features of TyphusPad. If you leave your computer on the website page while you go out and about doing other things for a sustained period of time, come back and start posting without either exiting the browser and reopening then going to the last page and post - it won't.

Anyone else notice that?

[Porchlight]

So does the 107K count people who still have plans in their shopping cart?

How many have paid for anything?

How many are actually confirmed enrolled on the insurer end?

We will probably never know the answers.

[Jack is Back!]

Issa asked Todd Park a great question today about his (Park's) experiences with eBay or Amazon: If you put an item in a shopping cart but have yet to pay for it do you consider that a "purchase".

Park: No!

Obama is so far out of his element now he is likely to become a 2 pack a day kind of guy.

[Old Lurker]

The funny thing is the news site with the least information is Foxnews.com which has only the 106,000 distraction number.

Shep must be on hurricane duty somewhere.

[MarkO]

This just in to Twitter:

Brit Hume ‏@brithume

These "enrollment" #s released by HHS means people who've put a plan in their website shopping cart, not people who've actually bought one.

[Jane-Rebel Alliance1]

From Ted Cruz:

106,185 people enrolled in Obamacare.

108,713 attended the 2010 NBA All-Star Game in Cowboys Stadium.

[Beasts of England]

Love it, Jane!

[Porchlight]

Thanks MarkO.

And even of the people who did complete a purchase on the site, we don't know how many were successfully processed by the insurers. Insurers have been reporting back end problems with bad/incomplete data all along.

[MarkO]

There are no binding policies nor can there be any until December. This is all fluff. It's like a lulling letter in securities fraud.

[BB Key]

I was born 60 years too soon...From the Daily Caller : "Should Disability Law Force a College to Wave Required Math Class ?" :)

[lyle]

Issa asked Todd Park a great question today about his (Park's) experiences with eBay or Amazon: If you put an item in a shopping cart but have yet to pay for it do you consider that a "purchase".

I believe that was Chaffetz but it was still a great question.

[Dan]

"Shut up, Jane, you ignorant slut!"

[Jeff Dobbs]

From Ted Cruz:

106,185 people enrolled in Obamacare.

108,713 attended the 2010 NBA All-Star Game in Cowboys Stadium.

122,043 Alaskans voted for Obama in the 2012 Presidential election.

120,975 Hawaiians voted for Romney in the 2012 Presidential election.

122,388 people voted for Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party in the 2012 Presidential election.

110,344 people voted for either Rosanne Barr or Rocky Anderson in the 2012 Presidential election.

146,084 people voted for Libertarian Robert Sarvis in the 2013 Virginia Gubernatorial election.

[jimmyk]

I believe that was Chaffetz but it was still a great question.

Not to toot my own horn, but I asked that very question here a couple of days ago.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

27,000 enrolled in the Federal exchange. <45,000. What a bunch of F-ups they are. But 300,000 newbies in Medicaid. So we can start paying for that.

[maryrose]

BBKey:
Having worked with students with disabilities, they can test into an appropriate college class. My son did and successfully completed it.He also passed the GED math test. With time and effort colleges can provide an adequate course. What's next? no science requirementThe really revealing number here is the 27,000 one. For a month throughout numerous states -this is the best they could do.
The Medicaid number is revealing. This and only this is how they should have taken care of the un-insured. The rest is an unfair burden. Give states money to start their own systems and allow for tort reform and interstate insurance. Steph's ideas are also excellent. This administration sucks at everything!

[lyle]

Go ahead and toot your horn, jimmyk. I now do remember you posing it.

[Jeff Dobbs]

161,797 people voted for Cynthia McKinney in the 2008 Presidential election.

[lyle]

That's just alarming, hit.

[maryrose]

also wave should be waive. There is also the concept of credit by examination. I had kids take the Ohio Math Proficiency test 4 or 5 times before they got the required 200 score. Sometimes a student would get 198 or 195. Persistance paid off. When one student finally passed we all cried.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Fewer than 27,000 enrolled in the federal exchange....

33,212 people voted for Buddy Roemer in the 2012 Republican Presidential primary.

27,788 New Mexicans voted for Libertarian Gary Johnson in the 2012 Presidential election.

30,222 people from Obama's home state of Illinois voted for Green Party candidate Jill Stein in the 2012 Presidential election

[narciso]

Yglesias despite his Dalton and Harvard education, is nearly as dense as William Atherton's character, from my attempts at dialog with him, 'a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away' Douthat was a little more understanding at his Atlantic blog, but there was a nasty nazgul
in the comments section,

[maryrose]

How did the 15 states do individually to get to the 80,000 number?

[Porchlight]

Susan Collins tweets:

I think we’re going to find that the problems with the website are the least of the problems with the Affordable Care Act.

The dim bulbs begin to flicker with life.

[Porchlight]

maryrose, I saw this in comment at HotAir but haven't found the link yet:

Top 5 exchanges (ranking by #aca enrollees):
1) CA 35k
2) feds 27k
3) NY 16k
4) WA 7k
5) KY! 5.6k—

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

<27,000 in the Federal Exchanges. The 15 state exchanges get 3Xs as many. Did Sebelius go all Bushido and commit Seppuku at the podium?

[Dan]

Those statistics are meaningless. You bozos couldn't be anymore irrelevant.

[AliceH]

From NRCC Twitter (I hope it works!):

Just received this urgent message from Emperor Palpatine: pic.twitter.com/X2js9I8Uht

— NRCC (@NRCC) November 13, 2013

[Jeff Dobbs]

Fodder!

1) CA 35k
3) NY 16k

51K from CA and NY.

67,326 people voted for Rosanne Barr in the 2012 Presidential election.

83,173 people voted for Jon Huntsman in the 2012 Republican Presidential primary.

[Porchlight]

A year ago, Obama was in the middle of his post-election victory lap and barrels of MSM ink were being spilled on how great his second term would be.

What a difference a year makes.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

NRCC Tweet-- OK you Repub haters, you must appreciate that "Death Star" tweet. Hysterical, IowaHawk worthy.

[jimmyk]

161,797 people voted for Cynthia McKinney in the 2008 Presidential election.

Posted by: hit and run | November 13, 2013 at 04:36 PM

That's just alarming, hit.

Yes, because if that many succeeded, it probably means that three times that many tried but couldn't figure out how to use the machines.

[(A) nuther Bub]

I'd bet that most of the enrollees in the federal exchange came from the Roseanne Barr voter contingent.

[rich@gmu]

***
The dim bulbs begin to flicker with life.

Posted by: Porchlight ***

Yeah, if she said that, I'm hopeful that the GOP doesn't form a gang to ride to the rescue. Saw the other day someone wishcasting that the GOP would come along and help fit it.

Did they happen to release how many polices have been canceled?

[maryrose]

Porch:
You said it. Remember how the entire paradigm was supposed to have shifted in the dems favor and the repubs were supposed to be lost in the wilderness? Ah comeuppance, it tastes so sweet!

[narciso]

It must be like when she spared an errant moose, and regretted it;

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/im-a-proud-hobbit-sarah-palin-takes-a-swing-at-fmr-running-mate-john-mccain/

[Jack is Back!]

jimmyk,

We have more lurkers from DC (both parties) than you can imagine. That is why your Amazon question got usurped. I happen to know a former interface on the E&C committee who became a close friend when I was there who wrote me and asked if I was JIB before I ever LUNed my website.

Even the CIA and NSA are here and I want to say hi and thanks for all you do to keep our country safe.

[jimmyk]

barrels of MSM ink were being spilled on how great his second term would be.

Notwithstanding the last 50+ years in which every 2nd term--even Reagan's, though that was exaggerated--has been problematic at best: Nixon resigned, Clinton got impeached, Reagan had Iran-Contra, Bush got bogged down in Iraq. The MSM were just blinded by their infatuation.

[Porchlight]

Boehner was talking about a legislative fix today, rich. However, I kinda think it's not going to work out:

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/13/angry-house-dems-demand-obamacare-fix-from-white-house-aides-in-heated-meeting/

So if Boehner knows it's doomed, it's not so bad to bring it up. Then you can say "hey we tried...you guys slapped us down again."

[jimmyk]

JiB, really I think it was a fairly obvious question. In fact, now and then when I think I come up with something clever and google it, someone else has usually already tweeted it somewhere. So now I don't pre-google anything. :)

[lyle]

Speaking of McCain, he's getting all butch about border security with JEF's new DHS nominee. Too bad he doesn't believe in any of it, the nattering old fool.

http://nationalreview.com/corner/363871/mccain-tears-homeland-security-nominee-oversight-issues-alec-torres

[narciso]

Apparently even thoughts along these lines, are crimethink

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/13/208436/cbs-opens-journalistic-review.html

[Old Lurker]

"Speaking of McCain"

Let's not.

[Jeff Dobbs]

27,000 people is roughly equivalent to the number of Americans that have been born . . . since Monday.

[Porchlight]

jimmyk,

It's looking like O's second term is charting like W's:

And W had all the media against him. Obama has most of the media cheerleading for him.

[Jack is Back!]

jimmyk,

They don't have that much time to come up wtih those questions. They have staff and that staff goes out finding the most "intellectual" of blogs and use them. Ask our friend in Chicago about that.

Ain't it something that the idiot ex-small town mayor in Alaska has been right on just about every policy issue coming out of DC in the last 5 years? Its almost as if Thomas Sowell or Dr.K are whispering in her ear every day.

[narciso]

Btw, there was a hearing on the subject of Benghazi somewhere, no,

Meanwhile, Sen. Levin, we remember him, apparently is too verklempt that any of Bialystok and Bloom's road show, display their work