Hiding The Ball In This 'ObamaCare Is Redistribution' Argument

Jonathan Cohn of TNR rides to the rescue of ObamaCare's redistribution:

Republicans Are Right: Obamacare Is Redistribution

But here's how it really works

And his gist: most of the giovernment funding is in the form of higher taxes on high earners (the new Medicare tax), fees on the health services industry, and reduced payments to health providers. So relax, everyone, ObamaCare is socking it to the oppressors!

I know what you're thinking - what about the stories about higher premiums, higher deductibles, and smaller networks? If newly-cancelled enrollees pay a higher premium (with a higher deductible), that does not show up as either a Federal tax or expenditure, although it does subsidize those with pre-existing conditions.

And what about all the stories about the importance of the 'Young Invincibles' who are expected to overpay for insurance to subsidize the rest of us (and who, despite the individual mandate, may become the Young Invisibles at enrollment time)? That also occurs outside Cohn's framework of government expenditures and receipts, but it is clearly important, so how did he manage to ignore it?

Cohn ignores the elephant by pretending everyone else is, too. He opens by excerpting this from a recent discussion on Fox News:

Republicans and their allies are making a lot of different arguments about what Obamacare is doing to America. It’s hiking premiums! It’s making people lose their doctors! It’s destroying Medicare! But if you listen closely, you’ll discern a common theme—a message aimed squarely at the middle class: Obamacare is taking away your money or health insurance, and giving it to somebody else. "If you think about it, it's $250 billion a year in Medicaid expansion, in the subsidy structure, that's basically being paid for by people on Medicare, through Medicare cuts, and a lot of tax increases," James Capretta, a former Bush Administration official now at the Ethics & Public Policy Center, said on Fox News Sunday. "It is a massive, massive income redistribution."

So since Capretta was ostensibly talking taxes, Cohn talked taxes. But link followers will find that taxes were a bit of an afterthought in the redistribution portion of the discussion. The moderator's intro was crystal clear:

WALLACE: All right. And that brings me to the final point I want to discuss here, and that is this question of whether or not ObamaCare has massive income redistribution.

Neera [president of the Center for American Progress], is it not the case that younger, healthier people are going to pay more than they currently do -- you got to let me ask the question.

Gee, that was not about taxes. Eventually Capretta was bnrought into the discussion:

WALLACE: Jim, is that a better deal or -- final word, is it a better deal or not?

CAPRETTA: Much worse deal. People today, if they're young and healthy can get relatively inexpensive insurance in the open individual market.

You're right about income redistribution, though. If you think about it, it's $250 billion a year in Medicaid expansion, in the subsidy structure, that's basically being paid for by people on Medicare, through Medicare cuts, and a lot of tax increases.

If you want to know what the bill is really about, people in their most honest and candid moments will admit that it's basically taken $250 billion a year out of taxes and Medicare and moving it into the Medicaid expansion and the subsidy structure. This other premium subsidies are also occurring between young and the old. But it is a massive, massive income redistribution.

So Capretta supplemented the 'young v old' argument with the point that Medicare is being cut for all, including the non-wealthy, and taxes are going up.

In response, Cohn decided his better rhetorical ploy would be to ignore the main point being made by the redistribution critics and press on, hoping no one would notice. Or more likely, figuring that even if people noticed, at least the left would have some new talking points around which to rally (Ed Kilgore at the Washington Monthly plays along uncritically, as does Paul Waldman at TAP). That is, if "tax the rich" can be considered a new talking point.

SOOOO YESTERDAY... The NY Times covered the controversial redistributive nature of ObamaCare a few weeks back, before lefties realized that they needed to rally around the rebuttal of a strawman argument:

Don’t Dare Call the Health Law ‘Redistribution’

By JOHN HARWOOD

...

Hiding in plain sight behind that pledge — visible to health policy experts but not the general public — was the redistribution required to extend health coverage to those who had been either locked out or priced out of the market.

Now some of that redistribution has come clearly into view.

The law, for example, banned rate discrimination against women, which insurance companies called “gender rating” to account for their higher health costs. But that raised the relative burden borne by men. The law also limited how much more insurers can charge older Americans, who use more health care over all. But that raised the relative burden on younger people.

And the law required insurers to offer coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions, which eased costs for less healthy people but raised prices for others who had been charged lower rates because of their good health.

Obviously.

Comments

[centralcal]

Oh
My
Gawd!

This series of 3 photos is an absolute, laugh out loud, hoot (be sure and click on photo to enlarge and see each expression on the faces!)

[dublindave]

If you're going to have a political blog you at least need to know which way the political winds are blowing.You do understand the differnce between reality and what you'd like reality to be, right?

(Fair warning, dub is pretty drunk while writing this.)

Most intelligent Republican realize,as we speak, that the ACA is going to work and they've given up their 'repeal or use ACA failure for political gain' strategies.

That's it.That's all.File it with my take on the SC ruling on the ACA,Romney's impossible mathematical road to being elected President and the other 100 things i've gotten right over the years.

You see Tom writes mind candy and....... dub dave makes you eat mind vegatables..

[Beasts of England]

She's an angry and bitter woman. How in the Hell does someone who has been handed everything - and I mean everything - have such an incredibly poor attitude. She's an embarrassment and a cretin.

[Gmax]

Hey Douchebag, how is that obamacare roll out working out for your paymaster?

[narciso,]

Ah more floor wax and desert topping, it's still a weak effort by Shimmer's marketing arm,

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

The first analysis I read that showed that all Obummer focused on in ObummerCare was to divert TRILLIONs to nonworking Medicaid recipents and the Drs and Nurses who take the Medicaid money, was prepared in 2009 by Betsy McCaughey. McCaughey's a wee bit nutz, but she knows her healthcare finance business. This should be no surprise because Obummer made his $$$ primarily from the phoney baloney job Univ Chi gave to Moochelle to keep their ChiTown southside State Senator happy. Medicaid Mills is one of the few things Obummer understands, and it was his top Obummercare priority. It also fits Obummer's racialist worldview. ObummerCare taxes high income producers, their Drs, and takes money away from predominantly white retired workers on MediCare and diverts it to Third World Drs and Union nurses treating NONworking black and brown skinned Medicaid recipients. This sort of urban/Third World payoff is something Obummer does understand.

[Marlene]

ccal,that third picture of him leaning forward was when I noticed him chomping on gum.

[Ignatz]

Allahpundit at Hotair links to this longer story on the ATF manufacturing crime and criminals. The ATF has a long, sordid history of botched sting operations, entrapments and overreaction to events. They're at least as rogue as the IRS and much more likely to shoot you or toss you in jail by inducing you to do something you wouldn't have otherwise had they just stuck to doing their job.

[Comanche Voter]

Ah Dublin Dave; the Duke of The Dimwits.

Obamacare will only work as the engine of destruction of the existing health care/insurance system. Once the whole damn thing has come crashing down, the call will go out for a single payer system--because we can't climb out of the chaos.

And Dublin Dave will say, "See, it worked."

[centralcal]

Marlene - apparently the photo series I linked, followed the "selfie" Obama took at the funeral. Which, needless to say, has gone viral.

Chewing gum? Of course, he's so "cool."

[Annoying Old Guy]

Ignatz;

I've done battle with the ATF before, as a major contributor to the legal action that removed hobby rocket motors from ATF jurisdiction. The case was quite typical of the ATF - the ATF said these rocket motors were "explosives" because shut up. Seriously. The judge vacated the order because the ATS literally refused to provide any supporting evidence or details on how they made their determination. Most likely because APCP is not, in fact, an explosive.

[Danube on iPad]

There will not be a single payer system in this country in my lifetime.

I can hardly wait until the millions of new Medicaid enrollees discover what kind of "healthcare" they're getting.

[narciso,]

Re the ANC broadly, leaving out Mandela's part in it, the left and some aspects of the sectarian right like Khomeini or the Brotherhood, they claim the high ground, because they've suffered and frankly have been willing to kill on occasion, it's not just words to them,

The patterns goes back as far as the Girondists in the French Revolution re the Jacobins, the Kadets and the Social Revolutionary re the Bolsheviks,

[narciso,]

I'm not that sanguine, DoT, did you think we would back here, 20 years after Hillarycare, went Andrea Doria.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

DoT-- the Medicaid enrollees disatisfaction doesn't really matter to Obummer-- what does matter is the swag (multi-billions) he's delivering to 'not-for-profit' medicaid mill operators (Dem politicians and their families), hospital worker and nurse unions (Dem kickback givers) and Big Pharma (cronies). MelR was so right about how Obummer would operate just like he did in ChiTown.

[matt]

How many times has Michelle been photographed with that look on her face?

Did anyone ever catch Jackie or Lady Bird or Pat Nixon or Rosalyn or Betty Ford or Nancy or Barbara or Laura Bush or even Hillary looking so foully put out?

She is representing our country and is expected to be graceful and kind every time she is in public. I think their handlers finally nixed the vacay's, by the way.

[Gmax]

New polls this AM. Tom Cotton up big on dead man walking Pryor in Arkansas, but the real earth tremors come to us from MEEEEEchigan, where the in the tank for Democrats polling firm PPP (DDD) finds Terri Land (R) up on Gary Peters (S) for the seat Levin is finally vacating. Remember MEEEEEchigan is run by a Republican Governor and both state houses are in Republican control, so a Republican Senator is quite well possible.

As a side note, one of the 39 votes in the House for delaying Obamacare came from one Gary Peters. Why would a socialist vote for delay? Cuz he knows he is going to get clubbed with Obamacare and he really really really wants to be a Senator and thinks he can fool some folks with the vote. But that smell you detect is flop sweat fear and its made its way to blue states now.

[Marlene]

matt,every time I see Michelle,I think,gee lady are we bothering you?

[Account Deleted]

NK,

Your observations are correct but the major redistributive effects are being implemented through premia rather than taxes.

Example:
Mike and Molly Median are 37. Their combined household income is $52,762. In 2013 they paid $3,750 for the medical insurance policy which they felt met their needs. In 2014 their BOzocare policy premium is $5,070. BOzocare stipulates their maximum premium obligation as 9.5% of $52,762 or $5,012. They are therefore entitled to a magnificent subsidy of $58.

The "Affordable" Care Act thus leaves them with $1,262 less disposal income than they enjoyed in 2013 and although it's not called a "tax", that premium increase is directly attributable to the Democrat Party.

Which they supported.

In the past.

[narciso,]

the evidence is in Cohn, is a lying jackalope, but the Journolist, the way they bought off the insurance and pharmaceutical companies, the phony indictment, and election fraud, used to secure their majority, gives one pause,

[MarkO]

Apparently, although I refuse to read the bill or the regs myself, unless you are willing to pay cash to your doctor, you may not be able to access him through any of the plans, no matter how expensive.

Zeke's explanation was just another lie.

[Marlene]

Sorry,another comment about ccal's pics. Michelle switched seats with Obama in the third pic. Ha,Ha!

[MarkO]

Can Fred Thompson join William Devane in an undisclosed location?

[cathyf]

I think everyone is still missing the wealth that's being destroyed by all of the mandates for "free" stuff which would not have been consumed at all if the patients had to pay for them.

The fundamental arithmetic of insurance is to take little bits of money from lots of people and pay lots of money to a few people. If you start giving little bits of money to lots of people the whole thing collapses. Because MATH.

The part about the young invincibles is that most of them have NO contact with the health care system in a year. They don't NEED an annual checkup and gobs of lab work because they are having no symptoms of anything because there is nothing wrong with them. Obamacare makes all of this stuff "free" that most of them don't need -- and, more deadly for the financial viability of the insurance plans, pushes people out of cheaper options. So the young single woman who used condoms when she needed birth control pre-Obamacare, now goes every year for her "free" annual exam, and gets her prescription for her "free" birth control pills. The young guy who pre-Obamacare went to the walk-in clinic every couple of years to make sure that a lingering cold wasn't strep, now trots off for his "free" annual exam and the "free" $500 worth of lab work.

THAT's where the money ends up going. It's not the 10 people with the million dollar health bills, it's the 200 million people wasting a few hundred apiece on things that they don't need. Things that they never would have done if they had to pay a co-pay.

We've all heard about Obama's story about how he bought liability car insurance and then he got in an accident where there was no liability and the insurance didn't pay. And this is supposed to be some terrible rip off. Look, we need to restore some basic knowledge about what insurance means. If you buy fire insurance and then your house doesn't burn down, then what you GET is that your house didn't burn down. If you buy liability insurance and then you don't have an accident with liability, then what you GET is not having your entire life wrecked by being liable for something that you have no hope of paying for. And if you buy health insurance and you don't get sick, then what you GET is that you are not sick. Insurance ONLY pays off with money if something bad happens to you, and it only partially compensates you for the bad that you suffered. If nothing bad happens to you, then the answer to "what did I get out of the insurance?" should be "you got a period of time where IF one of these particular bad things happened to you the rest of us would have helped pay for it." And if you expected anything more, then the answer is "shut up you idiot ingrate!"

[Ignatz]

....and reduced payments to health providers. So relax, everyone, ObamaCare is socking it to the oppressors!--

I'm not aware of a single person who wants their doctor or hospital to make less. Does anyone know of such a person?
I want the guy with the knife in my brain to be the smartest and most able chump money can buy.

In what world does relegating the people in whose hands our lives rest to equity with dog catchers and DMV employees seem like a good idea?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

In PROG WORLD!

[Gmax]

Ig

Cuba, for starters...

[narciso,]

Very succinct Cathy F, if Chris Hughes, maintained this lack of quality control at Facebook, Zuckerberg would have given him the Savarin treatment, (dilute the shares, take his name off the corporate masthead)

[narciso,]

Well his last outing went so gangbusters;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-imbalance-in-israel/2013/12/09/3d0dd316-60fe-11e3-bf45-61f69f54fc5f_story.html

[matt]

In retrospect and having seen the selfie, I think Michelle, to her credit, may have been pissed off with her husband's puerile behavior.

What the hell was the matter with the three of them to mar the dignity of the funeral of one of the great men of history? Even if Mandela was an ordinary person, he would still deserve the utmost dignity as he is laid to rest. It is just beyond me how crass people are today.

[Beasts of England]

No excuse for the First Wookie. That's her default attitude and expression. She's disgusting.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Ig:
I'm not aware of a single person who wants their doctor or hospital to make less. Does anyone know of such a person?

I'll grant you the "their". But change it to "your" and have I got a person for you. I'll give you a hint. The first two digits of his address are 1 and 6 and the name of his street is the same as a state.

Even though he is completely wrong on the facts, think tonsils and amputations.

[maryrose]

Both Barry and Moochelle obviously didn't have parents that properly instructed them in the correct decorum for solemn occasions. It's easy , they just have to emulate the behavior of George and Laura Bush. You don't see President Bush glad-handing Raul Castro.

[maryrose]

When is Preezygoing to sign up for Obamacare? According to Carney he definitely plans to do it we just don't know when it will happen.

[Old Lurker]

Your math looks good, Rick.

Mike and Molly of course had incomes and maybe paid a little tax.

Now do the math for Freddie Freeloader, back from Princeton living in his parents' basement while he interns for free at the Center for Saving the Planet.

[Danube on iPad]

"DoT, did you think we would back here, 20 years after Hillarycare"

The government didn't piss anyone off with Hillarycare.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Well Freddy will be on Mummy/Daddy's plan till he's 26yo. Then he'll ask them to pay the 1% penalty.

[narciso,]

Lowry is as usual, naive, if you want to 'rub raw the sources of resentment; then focusing on inequality is the way to go, if you actually want to fix the problem, you pursue other strategies,

[Old Lurker]

NK, speaking of Freddie being on his parents' plan until 26, I never checked the details on that since mine are >26, but I have two questions:

Do the parents pay a higher premium if the kid remains on their policy?

Can the parents say "no"?

[Ignatz]

Yes and yes.
I think.

[Old Lurker]

Thx Iggy

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

I agree with Ignatz-- but you know Nurse Ratchette Sebelius will limit rate increases on the Freddy Freeloader parents to keep freddy's vote, just another hidden political payoff that will be added to the Tab of Insured rate payers.

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

Most progs aren't in favor of for profit hospitals so I'd have to say that via most comments to prog editorials I see examples of those not wanting hospitals to make more money.

[Beasts of England]

No and Yes, OL. Premiums are based on the age of the oldest member of the plan, i.e., the oldest parent. One child, six children; no difference in premiums.

[Old Lurker]

That makes me sick, Beasts.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Thanks BOE-- Nurse Ratchett has already given the swag to Freddy Freeloader. This keeps getting better.

[Account Deleted]

OL,

I'm not too interested in Freddy the Feather Passing Beer Bonger. Let's just leave him contemplating the incurable STD he picked up with his last helping of free milk.

We should be seeing reports in the MFM regarding hard numbers and age splits for November. The lack of data reports indicates the pumps on the SS Obamic aren't keeping up with the incoming water.

[Old Lurker]

I'm not interested in him either, Rick, but to your point that Mike & Molly just realized the major hike in their tax rate which they had requested, Freddie's tax hike is actually an infinite rate of increase since he is now having to pay something when before he paid nothing.

[centralcal]

Golly. I just found out that Ron Fournier has blocked me from following him on Twitter. Shoot - wonder what I said that caused that? I honestly have no clue.

[jimmyk on iPad]

"She's an angry and bitter woman. How in the Hell does someone who has been handed everything - and I mean everything - have such an incredibly poor attitude. She's an embarrassment and a cretin."

I'm going to have to declare a Fox Butterfield on this one.

[Danube on iPad]

Where can one find Obama's selfie?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

RickB-- we all know that in November only the old and the chronically sick 'enrolled'. We also 'know' those are the only people for whom ExchangeCare makes sense. So I think the next 'real' issue becomes ExchangeCare BlueGov Insurer BAILOUTS. That's where the House repubs need to attack and Rubio, Lee, and Cruz need to 'filibuster' the CR. Pass the anti-bail out Bill in the House asap, and then use the filibuster to highlight it in the Senate, Force Senate Dems to vote against the NO BAILOUT. Huge political benefits will flow from that.

[centralcal]

My last comment on twitter to Mr. Fournier:

Ron Fournier ‏@ron_fournier 5 Dec

"Bent the arc of ... justice." Believe that's an MLK echo

Ron Fournier ‏@ron_fournier 5 Dec

Echoing both Lincoln and MLK in honor of Mandela couldn't be more appropriate.

Centralcal1 @centralcal

@ron_fournier @digiphile Is "echoing" kind of like copying?

[Danube on iPad]

A very wise old hand once told me, "always assume that at least one juror is looking straight at you whenever you're in the courtroom." Someone should have given Mrs. Obama comparable advice.

[centralcal]

Here you go DoT: President Selfie

[Account Deleted]

OL,

That's where dangling the rescission of taxes in with the repeal vote comes in. Freddy is one of the Invisible Invincibles but he still doesn't like the $95/1% tax and he can only get rid of it by voting against the Democrat liars who promised a free lunch with his free milk.

I'm still much more interested in Molly's reaction. She's been absolutely betrayed and that feeling is very hard to overcome. She'll never read Cohn's scribbles but anyone attempting his sophistry in her presence better be able to duck quickly.

[Stephanie]

" Huge political benefits will flow from that."

Riiiight. A government shutdown to prevent any of the bill from starting up and affecting our pocketbooks was a bad thing, but this technical mumbo jumbo that doesn't hit our pocketbooks will cause widespread screeching and support and be a good thing...

Good luck with that logic.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Stephanie-- uh-- back in september the LiVs had literally, absolutely literally, no idea what ObummerCare was. They assumed their insurance was unaffected, their premiums/co-pays would go down, and everybody else would sign up for "FREE" ObummerCare. The education of the LiVs began in late Oct, and the polls quickly reflected the education. NOW is the time to continue the education about the Insurer bailouts and the MILLIONs of group plan member cancellations coming down the road in 2014. Timing's everything. Moreover, there is no SHUTDOWN at risk by doing this in the Senate early January right after Christmas/New Years.

[Account Deleted]

NK,

You can't use 404Care signups to guess when the fascist enablers of BlueGovIns will show up rattling their begging cups. I don't see BOzocare enrollments hitting 1 million by year end and that is not a big enough number to put a frowny face on the fascists. The unknown kicker is the number of people with pre-conditions who do not qualify for subsidies and are signing up without subjecting themselves to the 404Care site.

We just aren't going to know until the Q4 10-Ks and 10-Qs are avilable in March.

[Beasts of England]

Huh, jimmyk?

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"So the young single woman who used condoms when she needed birth control pre-Obamacare, now goes every year for her "free" annual exam, and gets her prescription for her "free" birth control pills."

I had no idea women could use condoms. I learn so much from this blog.

[jimmyk]

Huh, jimmyk?

Sorry BofE, no offense intended, I was just reacting to this: "How in the Hell does someone who has been handed everything - and I mean everything - have such an incredibly poor attitude"

by suggesting that the question answers itself. People who have been handed everything generally do have incredibly poor attitudes.

[jimmyk]

I had no idea women could use condoms.

In which kaka has confirmed once again her cluelessness.

[Beasts of England]

I knew you weren't being offensive, jimmyk. I understand that being handed things in life doesn't exactly build character or foster appreciation, but I think her pathology is more complex than that. Cheers.

[Beasts of England]

Some women actually buy condoms themselves, kaka. I think it's called women's lib...

[AliceH]

Premiums are based on the age of the oldest member of the plan, i.e., the oldest parent. One child, six children; no difference in premiums.

Posted by: Beasts of England | December 10, 2013 at 01:38 PM

If valuepenguin dot com and ehealthinsurance dot com are modeling the exchanges accurately, the above is incorrect.

I just input for a random county a married couple, age 45, income $65K, silver plan - lowest premium (for that set of variables) = $704

Added one "child" age 25 - lowest premium = $949

Added 2nd "child" age 22 - premium = $1194

Bottom line: every child increases premiums of a family policy.

[Stephanie]

No, shit. jimmyk. There are female condoms, but most girls I know carry just in case. And not to put too crude a shell on it, she might want to check out 'how to apply a condom to your boyfriend' for some pointers on the sensual aspects of this procedure. I hear it's all the rage on kollege campuses.

[Stephanie]

On second thought, nevermind. Kaka probably just lays there waiting to be 'serviced' if she finds herself in bed with a male. EEK. Can't participate in such a patriarchical act as sex.

[Danube on iPad]

Thanks Ccal.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"People who have been handed everything generally do have incredibly poor attitudes."

Like Mitt Romney? Like George W. Bush?

[AliceH]

Additional to my 2:59:

I realize I didn't alter income on those 3 scenarios, even though it's possible the 25 and even 22 year old may have reportable earnings, and may in fact be independent filers as defined by IRS. I'm truly not sure what the ACA rules require.

[Beasts of England]

@AliceH - Oops. I should have qualified my statement. It's based on Blue Cross individual policies sold in my state. Thanks.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Uh-- the words kathy K. male, bed, lays, serviced all appearing in close proximity to one another, made me throw up in my mouth-- alot.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Some women actually buy condoms themselves, kaka. I think it's called women's lib..."

No, I think that's called men expecting women to take all the responsibility for birth control. In other words, business as usual. Except I didn't know the male sense of entitlement and irresponsibility had gone so far as to expect women to wear condoms, too.

[Beasts of England]

Who knew that Romney and Bush had bad attitudes. Or had everything handed to them.

[Beasts of England]

Didn't say jack shit about them wearing them, kaka. And both partners can be responsible - welcome to the new millennium, you bitter troll.

[jimmyk]

To kaka, having a wealthy family is tantamount to having everything handed to you, even if you are successful in your own right and not reliant on trust funds and inheritances. Just because.

But not if you're a leftist. Funny how she brings up Romney and Bush, whereas the obvious example would be the Kennedys, who mostly haven't worked a day in their lives and whose romantic liaisons have all-to-frequently resulted in the deaths of the females.

[Beasts of England]

And the occasional rape and groping, too, jimmyk. Talk about male entitlement and irresponsibility and you're talking Kennedys.

[Stephanie]

Poor poor put upon kaka. Upset she might have to take some responsibility for her sexual activity.

You bring it, you put it on, you use it. Whacha mean your done? I haven't climaxed yet.

Participation trophies require participation, hon.

[Beasts of England]

Brava, Steph!

[AliceH]

BoE - maybe need to check that - it seems to have changed. I see similar rate increases for each child in your state as well.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Stephanie-- for the love of God woman-- stop any references to kaka and sex immediately. Please, I have to get 1 hr dry cleaning service as it is.

[narciso,]

goggles do nothing, for a change of pace;

http://therightscoop.com/megyn-kelly-goes-on-the-tonight-show-with-jay-leno/

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Didn't say jack shit about them wearing them, kaka."

No?

"So the young single woman who used condoms when she needed birth control pre-Obamacare, now goes every year for her "free" annual exam, and gets her prescription for her "free" birth control pills."

[Jane]

Being handed everything is the fastest route to failure I can think of. I was actually talking to Henry about this yesterday. Learning to work is about the biggest gift a person can be given - and being forced to work for necessity is the easiest way to get there. Henry's dad was a big example of that sort of success. And boy was he successful. And he obviously passed it down to his own kids.

One of the things I admire most in Amy is that she grew up in a family that was very successful and yet has the best work ethic of anyone I've ever met. I think that is a very hard thing for a wealthy parent to pull off because the urge is always to give your kids stuff and make life easy for them. And Amy is doing the same with her own kids.

[jimmyk]

Except I didn't know the male sense of entitlement and irresponsibility had gone so far as to expect women to wear condoms, too.

Someone has an awfully large chip on her shoulder. First, use =/= wear. Second, I wonder how kaka feels about women carrying money on dates, even if the understanding is that the man is paying. Sometimes the unexpected happens.

[Beasts of England]

That's not my quote, you retard.

[Beasts of England]

@AliceH - Will do, thanks!

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Poor poor put upon kaka. Upset she might have to take some responsibility for her sexual activity."

SOME responsibility. Okay, that's fair.

"You bring it, you put it on, you use it."

I buy the condom. I wear the condom. I use the condom.

What does the man do? Take the birth control pills?

[Stephanie]

Sorry, NK. I just get pissed off when trolls wander by spouting nonsense about subjects they obviously don't know anything about. ;)

[jimmyk]

To change the subject, I thought Megyn was pretty good on Leno. She wisely tried to steer a center course rather than let herself be depicted as a right-winger. Unfortunately that put her in the position of letting Jay get away with a whopper on the minimum wage question, since she was trying to be evenhanded.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Please, I have to get 1 hr dry cleaning service as it is."

NK, the thought of having sex with me is making you come?

[Beasts of England]

The stooopid is thick on this one. Good grief, I miss dub.

[Stephanie]

For the illiterate:

"You bring it, you put it on. You use it" was my acquiescing to Kaka's assertion that the man takes responsibility for the condom since women don't 'use' condoms in this dialogue.

It's not my fault she assumes it's all about her. That was all you talking to your man, sweetheart. Showing that patriarchical savage who's boss in the bedroom.

It's not my fault the outcome was less than optimal - no climax for you. Like I said when you don't participate, you don't get the same reward as those who do. Why should your man take all the trouble and then worry about your needs?

[narciso,]

She was a book editor, and trade publication executive, scary no?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

The thought of KaKa in any context is vomitous; hence the drycleaning needs.

Stephanie, it's all good. It sounds like you are doing much better with the re-cupe. Glad to hear it.

[Stephanie]

OK now I just threw up in my mouth.... alot. And that's saying something since I'm on anti-nausea meds.

+++++++++++++++barbed wire fence+++++++++++

Yes Megyn came off as even handed, but I thought the zingers at Weiner were pretty good. Simon was a little uncomfortable when she turned to him to ask if he was sympathetic to Weiner's situation. And the joke about 1-900 numbers was obviously a set up with Leno... but funny.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"Why should your man take all the trouble and then worry about your needs?"

ALL the trouble? I'm still trying to get you to explain ANY of the trouble the man should take.

[rich@gmu]

>>>
I had no idea women could use condoms. I learn so much from this blog.

Posted by: Kathy Kattenburg <<<

she can put one on me.

[Kathy Kattenburg]

"She was a book editor, and trade publication executive, scary no?"

I have no recollection of being a trade publication executive, so it's definitely scary that you say I was.