Merry Christmas To Karzai

Karzai strolls across another Obama red line:

U.S. Softens Deadline for Deal to Keep Troops in Afghanistan

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG

KABUL, Afghanistan — With about a week left in the year, the Obama administration is backing away from a Dec. 31 deadline for securing a deal to keep American troops in Afghanistan beyond 2014, though it is standing by its warning that a total military withdrawal is still possible if delays continue, American and Afghan officials said.

The decision is a tacit acknowledgment of what has become obvious in both Kabul and Washington: Neither a hard sell nor soft persuasion has yet induced President Hamid Karzai to go along with the American-imposed timeline for the agreement.

It is also an embarrassing turn after weeks of threats by some senior administration officials, including Susan E. Rice, the national security adviser, that a complete American withdrawal from Afghanistan — the so-called zero option — would be considered if Mr. Karzai did not sign the deal by the year’s end.

Instead of prompting Mr. Karzai to action, however, setting a boundary appears to have only reinforced his sense that American officials will back down if he refuses their demands — a lesson that has been repeated often over the past 12 years.

“I don’t know if I would call it bluffing,” said one American official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. “But it looks like that’s what we were doing, and now it looks like Karzai is calling us out.”

Dealing with this after the Afghan election next spring made sense anyway.

Comments

[Ignatz]

--Suppose there are, say, three million of them. How would you have heard their stories?--

I was talking about here. Several people here have stated they have SSNs that are not from the state they were born in. None that I know of is from a state with which they don't have any connection. I did not imply that no one has ever received an SSN as Snopes describes.

I merely used that asserted explanation (for which there seems to be precisely as much evidence as that Barry obtained his SSN illegally or fraudulently) as a jumping off point for a few of the many oddities and coincidences and unlikely and plainly false assertions that have been made about this strange man's strange background.

You seem certain it all adds up to nothing. Others of us seem a little more circumspect.

[JIB]

Fox just stuck a big thumb in the eyes of the PC police by featuring Willie Robertson and wife on their special wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. LOL.

[narciso,]

the outrage seems to be more in the way he has behaved;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/18/how-the-u-s-paid-top-karzai-aide.html

[boris]

"You seem certain it all adds up to nothing"

If it added up to "nothing" it wouldn't be worth so much effort to stamp out.

At the very least an embarrassing distraction from the "real issues".

[Danube on iPad]

"Is there a grassy knoll along the north coast of Molokai?"

Only a leper colony on a spur that sticks out from the base of the cliffs that form the north coast. It is a barren and beautiful,place.,i used to fly along level with the top of the cliffs - about 2,00 feet, I think - and just gawk.

[Captain Hate]

Yes, the chocolate rations, have been doled out very efficiently

I, along with every other JOMer who's worked in IT I'm sure, have been involved with many projects from Hell but none of them have been within a large number of standard deviations away from the pure unfettered clusterfuck that is 404Care. But the ability to take a mega 17 day vacation after said failure with nary a tinge of self-conscious guilt puts Gaylord Focker in a special category even by his short bus standards. And the pain has only begun.

[jimmyk]

Isn't CT like 10 miles from NYC? Maybe logistically easier from certain starting points to get to a CT office located near a train stn than to get to one within NYC.

More like 30 miles, not a likely convenience shopping point, especially in those days. But I did just think of one connection, though it's unlikely: I believe he was a counselor at a summer camp in CT when he was 17 or 18, which would have been the late 1930s. Of course I doubt he made much if any money, and it wouldn't likely have prompted getting in SSN number. But he did in fact spend time in CT.

[Captain Hate]

Btw, I heard earlier today that Twitter may have been victimized by software they put in place to keep spam at bay, when a bunch of lefties referred to the Robertson site as such and the software reacted accordingly. I wouldn't trust a number of software moguls as far as I could kick 'em, but not everything they do has malign intent.

[Jane]

I think Obama has always been a con-artist. I think his mother was a con-artist, his grandparents were probably con-artists and all of his mentors were con-artists. I assume that is the only way he knows to go thru life.

I think he figured he'd get scholarships and into schools he couldn't get into if he said he was a foreign student, and I figure his mother decided buying a SS # was easier than applying for one, and lying about just about everything worked well for him, and on and on and on. And frankly I think all of those things are worse than being born in Kenya if that person actually loved this country - which Obama clearly doesn't.

The problem is he was elected president and we are all pawns in his little game.

[narciso,]

So Blake Miller, pulled his ACL and he's out for a while, is my understanding,

[narciso,]

I would buy that story, if the inclinations of many of Twitter's top men, were not so obvious,

[Danube on iPad]

"Has there been?"

I have no idea. Truman, of course, had none. I believe someone found Bush 43's, but don't know if he authorized their disclosure. I know (and care) nothing about Bush 41's, Clinton's or Reagan's.

There is no doubt that this is a vile, secretive man who is at great pains to obfuscate the Red odor of his past. I'd love to see continued, intense focus on the obvious leftist philosophy that has guided him and continues to do so. At the same time, focusing on whether he was born in Hawaii, or whether the pdf is a forgey, diminishes the general interest in discovering more about him. Make no mistake, he disgusts me.

That is my view of the matter. Merry Christmas.

[Danube on iPad]

Presidential grades:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2782381/posts

[Danube on iPad]

*2,000 feet*

[AliceH]

Merry Christmas, Tom Maguire, and to all the JOMers.

[narciso,]

Really who thought this would be a good move;

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/12/24/under-pressure-from-egyptian-military-white-house-pulls-pick-for-ambassador-to-egypt/

I recall, in one of my first posts here, how a German successor to Agee's outfit had 'outed' Ford as CIA, just because, even though it wasn't clear he was,

[Captain Hate]

The problem is he was elected president and we are all pawns in his little game.

Welp, it's not like the nation hasn't gone temporarily insane previously. Prohibition was an amendment to the Constitution which means a much more prevalent level of brainlessness on the part of the population.

[Danube on iPad]

"You seem certain it all adds up to nothing."

See my 8:25.

[rse]

OT Fashion Alert-

Marlene, the daughters like the new NMD jeans. Went with the ankle cut and they have decided not to apply me to What Not to Wear. Yet.

Merry Christmas everyone. Laughing at Donald as I have been at a late lunch at the Tavern about the time the waitresses change into their evening look. Major shift, and you can see how late night fights break out.

[JIB]

Is Obama at the Sheraton Hawai'i Bowl game?

Oregon State is playing Boise St. and winning 17-3.

[JIB]

On his way to Reykavijk, Iceland. That will be a quick visit. More naughty than nice there.

[Threadkiller]

I wish playing the SSN game was as fun as the Dialect game.

I

[daddy]

"...that is probably where Obama's grandparents or mother bought his."

As if anybody in that family ever paid for anything.

[Threadkiller]

Happy Christmas Eve!

[Beasts of England]

Waitresses changed into their evening look at the Tavern? Darn it. I guess I always leave too early...

[Danube on iPad]

PJ Media adresses the Selective Service issue innterms I wholeheartedly endorse:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/obama-did-obama-actually-register-for-selective-service/2/

The man registered, the Service said so publicly.

[narciso,]

Well it's good to know they are on the case, what you mean they haven't made a stink about this;

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/12/24/intel-group-says-boko-haram-planning-holiday-attack-with-help-of-eu-u-s-diaspora/

[boricuafudd]

Jimmy K
This site allows you to plug-in the first 5 numbers of the SSN and gives you a date and general location of when the number was registered. It might help narrow down things.

http://stevemorse.org/ssn/ssn.html

[Beasts of England]

@bori: According to your link, mine was issued in Virginia in 1968. That jibes with my recollection. Pretty cool resource.

[daddy]

Bay Area officials have banned residents from burning wood, indoors...

Tell me again which political party it is thats constantly telling people what they can and can't do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

[JIB]

bori,

Perfect! As I thought - Kansas 1958 or 59.

He's now in Stanley, Falkland Islands. Another rather short visit. Moving up the South American continent.

We're still up watching "Its A Wonderful Life". I miss Jimmy Stewart. No one today comes even close.

[boricuafudd]

BoE

I came across it doing some geneology research and it came very handy for that purpose.

[Captain Hate]

We're still up watching "Its A Wonderful Life". I miss Jimmy Stewart. No one today comes even close.

I think the Whoreyweird taste mongers had Hanks set up to be the next version but then he lost his mind similarly to the castaway that talked to the soccer ball.

[Jeff Dobbs]

A JOM Christmas memory:

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Please listen.

Posted by: PeterUK | December 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM

Dadgummit. PUK's youtube link is no more.

Try this instead. Not the same. But it has the lyrics, of which I am particularly fond.

[narciso,]

Well his junkets for the 'Pacific' went awry, I caught a segment of the cringeworthy 'Larry Browne' which typifies the nadir that both Roberts and his career have gone into, this would appear
the role that they seem to have been forced to cast Ben Stiller, in 'Mitty'

[Threadkiller]

Trustworthy?!?!?!!! What a joke, LOL! Even a cursory examination of Bob Owens’ article reveals it to be composed of one false statement after another. See for yourself by asking a few questions and looking for the anwswers:Why does Owens cite Daniel Amon, Project Manager, Art-Z Graphics as a “trustworthy” spokesman for the U.S. Selective Service System spokesman?Is Daniel Amon, Project Manager, Art-Z Graphics a trustworthy source when the Selective Service insignia in the documents contain the same words, “Ducky” and “Adobe”, embedded in them like thevarious images of the Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) so frequently analyzed as digital forgeries?A Selective Service System (SSS) 2004 annual report discloses Daniel Amon as the Art-Z Graphics Project Manager for the contract, so why is a person with a contractor’s access to SSS records and the expertise to use graphics design tools such as Adobe Photoshop to be trustworthy enough to never be a person of interest or suspected of forging the SSS records and/or COLB documents?When President Clinton’s former press secretary is caught redhanded stealing official U.S. Government documents from the National Archives and Records Service (NARA); a contractor is caught accessing and/or altering the passport files of Obama, Clinton, and McCain before receiving an appointment in the Obama Administration; then why is a contractor for the Selective Service System so immune from suspicion they become a credible and trustworthy source for denying what hypothetically could be their own forgeries?How is it possible for the Selective Service form to bear a USPO (U.S. Post Office) round postmark, when the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) in September 1980 used no such postal stamps which were discontinued around 1971?Why do Amon and Owens claim Barack Hussein Obama registered for the draft on 4 September 1980 , when his legal name was still Barry Soetoro until after his mother’s divorce months later in 6 November 1980?Why do Amon and Owens claim Barack Hussein Obama registered for the draft on 4 September 1980 when the other Selective Service documents signed by Barack Hussein Obama as Obama give a 29 July 1980 date?Why are there two dates for Obama’s draft registration, 29/30 July 1980 signed as Obama and 4 September 1980, when there should only be one registration between 29 July 1980 and 2 August 1980?Why did an Obama supporter complain on Obama’s webstire on 3 July 1980 that there was no record of a draft registration at the Selective Service System, but Amon at Art-Z supplied a printed report on 9 September 2008 claiming such a registration?Why is the draft registration on a form which did not exist in 1980 with an OMB number which did not exist in 1980?How did Barack Hussein Obama register for the draft in Hawaii on 9 September 1980, when he was already attending school at Occidental College, Pasadena, California while registered as Barry Soetoro, adopted stepson of Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia?How is Owen trustworthy in his statement saying no one else had bothered to lookup Obama’s draft registration, when Obama’s own website illustrates there was no such registration available on 3 July 2008, until Amon at Art-Z Graphics produces an alleged draft registraton on 9 September 2008 containing the digital artifacts “Ducky” and “Adobe” in the SSS insignia?Just how many false statements, outright lies, and impossible claims does it take before you can conclude Bob Owens article is not a trustworthy source?"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2425019/replies?c=30

[narciso,]

Not Christmasy, but good none the less;

[narciso,]

And here's another, with collaboration;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idWgDrPL2Mc

[windansea]

Merry Christmas TM and all JOMers

[Danube on iPad]

Good God! We have another forged pdf! Quelle surprise!

I'll go with PJ Media, TK.

And I'll continue to suggest hunting where the ducks are. Others may hunt where they choose.

[BB Key]

Spot on for me : NC 1963

[Stephanie]

Merry Christmas to all my JOMer friends. Ya'll're are the best.

Thanks so much for all the support over the last few months.

[Stephanie]

Ya'll're are ??

I blame the wine.

[Danube on iPad]

Arpaio Post Office stamp nonsense, debunked:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/sheriff-joes-selective-service-fraud-debunked/

But it's whack-a-mole. There is an endless supply of loonery.

[Beasts of England]

Just checked my front porch and my ex had dropped off some cheese straws, garlic pickles, and chocolate truffles. That's truly the spirit.

[daddy]

Spot on for me : NC 1963

BB,

Are you sure you're not secretly a Starship for the Federation?

[Danube on iPad]

2008 SSS letter:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/coffmansssltr.jpg

[jimmyk]

It might help narrow down things.

It seems less precise for the early years. Mine was spot on, Michigan 1972, but my father's was Connecticut, 1936-1950.

[Beasts of England]

@daddy: I showed my daughters the gif you uploaded about a week ago showing the baby girl being fed by her father, where she was about to fall asleep. They absolutely fell out laughing. Thanks for those clips.

[Danube on iPad]

Circular date stamp nonsense, debunked:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/circular-date-stamps-and-obamas-selective-service-registration/

[Threadkiller]

Permission has been granted for hunting where we please.

[BB Key]

daddy, Nope, 15 year old working in the Bindery of NC State College print shop for 85 cents an hour .

[narciso,]

It was part of one of the less impressive of the series, but that's been true of practically all odd numbered ones,

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Springfield

[Ignatz]

--At the same time, focusing on whether he was born in Hawaii, or whether the pdf is a forgey, diminishes the general interest in discovering more about him.-

I agree, which is why I never mentioned one thing about either issue. You brought them up.

I read Bob Owens' article earlier and it addressed none of the issues that TK's link raises.
This one however does and seems to dispose of them.
As I noted earlier that's the only point I brought up which was not either a fact or an admission by Barry himself and my point still stands. His past is a dysfunctional mess with many large gaps and several simply false narratives, something that I'm not aware of regarding any other president of the last hundred years. Even the pathological liar Clinton was more forthcoming than this case study.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/179403680/Doug-Vogt-Identitfies-Obama-Birth-Certificate-Forger-Misprision-of-Felony-Notice-10-18-2013

[BR]

Thank you for the beauuuuuutiful Christmas Tree, WindandSea!!!

Merry Christmas to all!

[daddy]

"Open the pod bay doors BB"

"I'm sorry daddy, I can't do that."

[Danube on iPad]

"You brought them up."

I did so by way of adressing the whole morass, not only the matters you brought up (although I think you mentioned in your laundry list that "questions were raised" about his draft registration).

I am glad we agree on some things. I think we agree on more than you may realize.

[Danube on iPad]

"Doug Vogt identifies Obama birth certificate forger."

Really? What's the forger's name?

[narciso,]

This was the first PoI episode, that really showed HR's place in the organization, the one that ends with 'Gimme Shelter' in the arrest scenes,

[Threadkiller]

Hobbyists need other people to help with their hobby.

[daddy]

And BB, speaking of exciting news for us TarHeel College grads:

We're Number 9, We're Number 9!!!

The 10 Worst Colleges for Free Speech: 2013

Warning---It's a HuffPo link.

[Beasts of England]

Seen elsewhere on the web:

God doesn't want us to be unhappy on Christmas.

No, but my sister in law does...

[DrJ]

About time:

Former New York governor Eliot Spitzer and his wife [Silda] announced late Tuesday that their two-decade-plus marriage is over.

The couple issued a statement announcing the split, saying "We regret that our marital relationship has come to an end and we have agreed not to make any other public statement on this subject."

[Captain Hate]

Funny that the episode they showed tonight was the one just after the next one on my DVD, which I watched instead, about the Cuban cab driver who sells the laptop the Estonian mob was itchy about. It featured when Elias double crossed HR and Fusco delivered the message. I hope they continue to use Elias because I find him an extremely interesting character but they may have just kept him around for the final demise of HR. Still, somebody in his position might be useful down the road, just like the forensic accountant whose number keeps popping up.

The subtitles on the DVD should be useful when Shaw joins the boys because I her voice just doesn't come across clearly to me unless I crank the volume to eleven.

[daddy]

Beasts,

I love that clip of Stephanie and the spoon. It still has me giggling:

[Ignatz]

--I think we agree on more than you may realize.--

I've found there are very few things I disagree with you about.

Your unsubstantiated charge of racism and what in my opinion is continuing bullying behavior, taunting and name calling toward TK personally are the only ones of consequence, and unlike a political disagreement, is an area of disagreement which has lowered my opinion of you.
Despite a couple of attempts, you don't seem inclined to see it my way so I'll drop the issue as pointless.

Time to sign off; a Merry Christmas to all.

[Threadkiller]

"HONOLULU (AP) — The governor has appointed an acting health director, nearly two weeks after the death of Loretta Fuddy.Fuddy was the sole fatality in a plane's crash landing in the ocean off Molokai. The pilot and seven other passengers survived without major injuries...Authorities say Fuddy's cause of death hasn't been determined"

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/24298408/gov-abercrombie-appoints-gary-gill-acting-health-director

[Threadkiller]

Merry Christmas , Ig.

[Captain Hate]

Jeeze did us talking about that marriage made in heaven finally loosen that slip knot? Can we work that Beetlejuice magic on the Clintoons?

[Captain Hate]

Merry Christmas to all my JOM friends.

[daddy]

The latest from Mark Steyn at NRO, this time on the dropped Michael Mann lawsuit--yet he still manages to get in a little dig while posting the update.

Mumbo-Jumbo for Beginners

I agree that it’s helpful, when one is soliciting donations for a legal campaign, to provide an update on how the battle’s going, so I don’t know why one of NR’s editorial staff could not have posted the court order with an accompanying explanation.

[narciso,]

I think I missed that episode, the next one that will be aired is where Finch goes undercover as a substitute teacher, and kerfluffles ensue,

The show is like a modern update of the Equalizer, but it's considerably more anti establishment.

[MarkO]

My in-laws owned a condo on Molokai. They tried to sell it to me. I love Maui.

[boricuafudd]

Feliz Navidad a todos!!

[DrJ]

We followed the European tradition of exchanging gifts on Christmas Eve. Mine was a 16-year-old Lagavalin Single Malt, which I recommend highly.

[Captain Hate]

daddy, did you see this: http://extramustard.si.com/2013/12/21/kentucky-soccer-coach-roy-williams-hilarious-tweet/?sct=obinsite

I agree with the three comments on there that Roy didn't really do anything wrong and that soccer fans need to put their big boy pants on and realize that not everybody has to tiptoe around their dipshit sport.

[MarkO]

I, too, once had a 16 year old for Christmas.

[DrJ]

MarkO, was that 16-year-old a Scotch or a female? :)

Of course it was a Cab!

[Beasts of England]

Good for you, DrJ!

lol, MarkO!

[Captain Hate]

Had a nice Christmas Eve drive with my youngest Hatette and Maggie the Airedale; going to see this giant evergreen decorated with lights down by the Chagrin river. Mrs H and I saw it last Friday when all the snow was melting and there was fog in the 50+ degree temperature. Tonight was much more seasonal with temps in the teens and a couple inches of newly fallen fluffy snow.

[Danube on iPad]

"Your unsubstantiated charge of racism and what in my opinion is continuing bullying behavior, taunting and name calling toward TK personally are the only ones of consequence"

So far as I am aware I did not use the term racism; rather the term was nativism, which was based on my perception that TK is inordinately hostile to immigrants, as exemplified by his derisive comments about an infant who had been "dropped" across the border by "Mamacita."

I don't know how it is possible to bully someone on a blog, but I would suggest that the difference between my attitudes toward TK are, if anything, different only in degree, and not in kind, from yours toward Dana (see the recent Fukishima exchange). I think you conceive of Dana, but not TK, as a "troll" who is fair game. I see TK as in the very same category as Dana when he incessantly lobs in this birther crap.

My opinion of you has not been lowered. Let's say it is in equipoise.

[Danube on iPad]

"Hobbyists need other people to help with their hobby."

Yes. In this instance I need the help of someone who can provide the name of the forger.

[Stephanie]

LOL daddy. Never gonna live it down.

I'm officially off all meds! Had a glass of wine tonight and wham it hit me like a brick.

And I just finished wrapping the last bits of Christmas gifts. We got everyone a 'gag' gift this year in addition to their other stuff and I'll have to list them here tomorrow. Some of them are quite hilarious. Hubs lurks, so I dare not mention them yet.

[Beasts of England]

Merry Christmas, y'all.

Peace on Earth.

[Danube on iPad]

Merry Christmas to everyone at JOM.

Nytol.

[daddy]

Thanks for the link Captain.

Love commenter number 2, and may to have to steal his line:

Lipsitz is a giant dooshnugget, 'cept I'd a spelled Lipsitz's name a tiny bit different:)

[Frau Weihnachten]

The Thai Pest Grinch stole my other post. Once more with feeling:
Merry Christmas to all. Stay safe and warm.

[jimmyk]

Merry Christmas to JOMers.

Off bright and early to Vermont for the rest of the week.

[Beasts of England]

This time I got Birmingham, Montgomery, and Columbus, Georgia as my most similar (pretty close) and Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Springfield as least similar. Sounds right.

[Threadkiller]

People who buy lunch for people who eventually call them "David Duke" should be considered as categorically the same as Dana.

[Ignatz]

I feel compelled to respond on a subject I just said I'd drop.

--So far as I am aware I did not use the term racism; rather the term was nativism--

Your first comment was nativism but I believe you used the term racism or racist later. In either event when TK has mentioned you accused him of racism later you have never disputed the characterization as you did just now. I raised the issue and asked you to retract your claim and used the term racist to describe your characterization of TK previously and you made no effort to correct it then either.

-- the difference between my attitudes toward TK are, if anything, different only in degree, and not in kind, from yours toward Dana (see the recent Fukishima exchange). I think you conceive of Dana, but not TK, as a "troll" who is fair game. I see TK as in the very same category as Dana when he incessantly lobs in this birther crap--

You entered into a deal with me whereby you would not respond to Dana if I did not respond to WeeDavey. The rationale for that was how much the back and forth with these trolls was disruptive of the blog. Even before the agreement I let many, many troll posts pass without comment. You don't even let a one line joke by TK pass. So even if I grant your premise that they're both trolls, your wrangling with TK is far more disruptive than the occasional jousting with the others, so it is difficult to discern the logic behind your position.

The most troubling episode for me was the "sick f***" comment wherein you told what I can only characterize as a bald faced lie that you had never expressed any friendship or solicitude toward TK. If you can't even retract or correct something that obviously false then it's hard to see how you're acting in good faith on this.

I'll leave it to others with superior google-foo skills to me to dig up the comments in question if anyone is so inclined.
I hope not since I really am dropping it as there seems little chance of a resolution.

I already said Merry Christmas to all........so to all a good night.

[daddy]

Via "Watts Up With That?" and related to Mark Steyn's battle with Michael Mann, here's a worthwhile read this Christmas day from Lord Moncton:

Monckton: Of meteorology and morality

[Extraneus]

Merry Christmas.

San Francisco extends wood burning ban to Christmas Day

According to KTVU, those who violate the burning ban the first time must either pay a $100 ticket, or take a "wood smoke awareness class." Subsequent violations would result in fines of $500 or more.

[Marlene]

Merry Christmas to everyone at JOM and many thanks to Tom Maguire. Have a wonderful day!

[anonamom]

Merry Christmas everyone.
Clear and cold in NC. 28 at 6 am.

[pagarnow]

Merry Christmas to all!

[Jack is Back!]

Merry Christmas.

We are up, getting ready to open presents. Looks like Santa dropped off an electric scooter for Frederick. More later.

[anonamom]

(And Ig, I am in total agreement that D causes the birther "problem" here, not TK.

If there was a word that meant "just short of bullying," I'd choose that to characterize the behavior.)

[Extraneus]

I don't like the birther wars, either, but it's hard to blame one combatant and not the other.

DoT is a retired arguer. He was obviously quite good and successful at it, and still has a passion for it. He also thinks that birthers are conspiracy nuts who make conservatives look bad, and that they should be refuted, especially here. So it's not surprising that he would argue with TK's posts on the subject, which he has often done with precise legal reasoning that few of us are capable of. Early in the battle, he spent many posts patiently attempting to explain the law to TK. After a while, his patience ran out.

As for TK, I can't say I understand his motivations as well, but he's a good-natured guy with a great sense of humor. He holds a mean grudge, though, and never forgets a slight. Therefore, it was only a matter of time before the argument became personal. Unfortunately, TK was unable to tell DoT to fuck off and just move on, and every past slight still weighs heavily in his posts. I think this is what makes the whole thing a downer for the rest of us. At least it does for me.