ObamaCare - Making Insurance Affordable For Fitness Buffs

The WaPo wants to highlight the good news about ObamaCare, so they lead with the touching story of an aging Young Invincible who gambled with his health insurance and lost:

Beneath health law’s botched rollout is basic benefit for millions of uninsured Americans

Adam Peterson’s life is about to change. For the first time in years, he is planning to do things he could not have imagined. He intends to have surgery to remove his gallbladder, an operation he needs to avoid another trip to the emergency room. And he’s looking forward to running a marathon in mid-January along the California coast without constant anxiety about what might happen if he gets injured.

These plans are possible, says Peterson, who turned 50 this year and co-manages a financial services firm in Champaign, Ill., because of a piece of plastic the size of a credit card that arrived in the mail the other day: a health insurance card.

Peterson is among the millions of uninsured Americans who are benefiting from the Affordable Care Act, the 2010 law that launched far-reaching changes to the U.S. health-care system and is President Obama’s premier domestic achievement.

More on Mr. Peterson's new-found peace of mind:

"I get these messages from acquaintances on Facebook saying, ‘Let me keep my doctor,’ ’’ Peterson said. “Well, what about those of us who didn’t have health insurance before? . . . I have been walking a tightrope and have had some twists and falls off of it. To not have to worry about this anymore is a tremendous relief.”

And what are the circumstances that led to this? Staying with the WaPo to the end of the story:

For Adam Peterson, awaiting gallbladder surgery in Illinois, the dark tunnel without insurance began about six years ago, when he decided to forgo health coverage because he needed the cash to set up his financial services business. The cost of that decision hit home in March, when the emergency surgery to remove a gallstone cost him $27,000.

So he set up his own business. Per Manta (and you know I believe everything I read on the internet), his small firm is doing nicely now, although six years ago and through the crash, who can say?

Camargo Investments

A privately held company in Champaign, IL.

Categorized under Financial Planning Consultants, our records show it was established in 2009 and incorporated in Illinois, current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $1 to 2.5 million and employs a staff of approximately 1 to 4.

Back to the WaPo:

When he went to HealthCare.gov this fall, the online system at first balked at verifying his identity — an essential step. It took a few calls to a help line before anyone called back. But just before Thanksgiving, he managed to enroll in a top-tier plan with a monthly premium of $475.

“I do not feel that it gives me the freedom to do reckless things,” Peterson said, contemplating his insurance coverage, which begins on New Year’s Day. “More, it just allows me to live a normal life with one less worry.”

$475 per month is about $5,700 per year. Per the Kaiser health cost estimator, a silver plan (one notch down from "top-tier") would cost someone in Champaign, IL (ZIP 61820, one non-smoking 50 year old adult, no kids) would cost $4,592 per year without subsidies. Subsidies would kick in for income above $46,000 per year, and we hope this financial consultant is doing that well (although we have no idea what tax jiggling he might be doing; Mickey Kaus says "tax cheats", I say "income managers"; you say 'potato', I say 'Obama').

So is our financial entrepeneur (U of Chicago MBA 1990, per his Facebook page) actually collecting a Federal subsidy? The WaPo is coy on this. However, Mr. Peterson has a blog devoted mainly to chronicling his marathon training and is active on Facebook. [And via Twitter, Mr. Peterson is kind enough to inform me that no, he is not collecting subsidies.]

Per the blog we learn he has been training for marathons since at least 2009, which seems to predate his gall bladder situation. Per basic Googling, we also learn that his state of Illinois established ("IPXP", under another provision of ObamaCare) a high-risk pool for people with a pre-existing conditions problem back in 2010.

Which leaves us scratching our heads at this rhetorical flourish we found at Mr. Peterson's Facebook site, posted last September:

All this discussion about the government shut down around the Affordable Care Act has me thinking that I would like the conservatives to answer a few questions for me. I don't mean to be a downer, but I am 50 years old and do not have health insurance (I am an independent contractor). If I were to purchase insurance on the open market, I could not because I need to have my gall bladder removed (pre-existing condition). Even then, if it was not an issue, health insurance would cost me over $500 per month (unaffordable today, since I am not part of a larger purchasing group). So my dear de-funding friends, let me ask you why (1) you want to deny me affordable health insurance (the "Obamacare exchanges" in Illinois (without any subsidies) will bring my monthly premium in line to about $175 per month because I am finally going to be part of a large purchasing group), (2) you want to exclude me from the insurance market because I have a pre-existing condition that prevents me from buying insurance at all, let alone on an affordable basis, (3) you want me to go bankrupt by having all of my medical issues handled in the emergency room (the most expensive form of healthcare delivery) since I will not have access to preventive care without insurance and (4) you think that REGULATING THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IS ANYTHING CLOSE TO GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF HEALTHCARE.

Dare I answer his questions with a few of my own? First, for six years he has "saved" roughly $5,000 per year by foregoing insurance - that is $30,000. Now his emergency procedure set him back $27,000. Over the six years, that is roughly breaking even (we lack information on deductibles, co-pays and other medical expenses, mercifully). He self insured at about break-even - this is a problem why? I am confident a Chi-town MBA can run those numbers, and probably has.

As to his somewhat recent pre-existing condition, I would hope a financial consultant understands risk management and financial planning. Why should the rest of us pay for his health procedures while he re-invests in his seemingly successful company?

And on that topic, are we in fact directly subsidizing his health insurance? [We are not, as noted above, but if I let new facts interfere with a rant what kind of blog would this be?] Per Facebook $500 a month was unaffordable; per the WaPo, Mr. Peterson went with a top shelf plan at $475 per month. Is he collecting subsidies, or did the $25 per month difference make it affordable? Of course, without info on deductibles and copays premium comparisons are meaningless. That said, the ChiTrib reported that sticker shock, with higher premiums and deductibles, is the Illinois experience under Obamacare.

Well: let me extract his first question and express my bafflement:

(1) you want to deny me affordable health insurance (the "Obamacare exchanges" in Illinois (without any subsidies) will bring my monthly premium in line to about $175 per month because I am finally going to be part of a large purchasing group).

That was posted before the ObamaCare website debuted, so we may simply be observing the power of positive wishful thinking, but... does Mr. Peterson still think his premium will be knocked down to "$175 per month" because he will be "part of a large purchasing group"? Or would it be fair to say that he experienced a bit of sticker shock?

My psychic guess - over the last few years Mr. Peterson was a fitness buff and aging "Young Invincible" who figured it would be cheaper to take his chances rather than buy insurance priced for the frail and sickly. He had his gall bladder problem in March 2013 which washed out his six years of insurance savings and left him with an impending medical bill for gall bladder surgery. He then decided to ride it out until ObamaCare kicked in in 2014 and he could avoid the (probably pricey) IPXP plan designed for those with a pre-existing problem.

So he is happy and the WaPo is happy. But if he is collecting Federal subsidies, well, maybe I am not so happy.

Pressing on with the questions:

(2) you want to exclude me from the insurance market because I have a pre-existing condition that prevents me from buying insurance at all, let alone on an affordable basis...

Well. Defunding the ObamaCare subsidies and altering the restrictions on pre-existing conditions are separate topics. As to what conservatives want, there are different 'repeal and replace' plans out there, and I daresay they all recognize that pre-existing conditions (and asymmetric information) is a conceptual problem for any market for insurance.

However, even if he is not being subsidized by the Feds, Mr. Peterson now wants the insurance companies, and ultimately their customers, to subsidize his choices which worked out badly even though a few years back he was not interested in buying seemingly expensive insurance. If somewhere out there in 2014 is a young, fit man hoping to invest in his own business, why is Mr. Peterson intent on denying him the same choice he made for himself in 2007?

(3) you want me to go bankrupt by having all of my medical issues handled in the emergency room (the most expensive form of healthcare delivery) since I will not have access to preventive care without insurance...

No one wants to bankrupt anyone - this isn't personal, although it is about personal responsiblity. And don't think of this a bankrupting you - think of it as a chance to see the world! Medical tourists in India or Mexico can have a pesky gall bladder plucked for $4,500 to $6,000. Bankrupt a high roller like you? C'mon...

I can quit anytime but will have to stop soon since this is the last question:

(4) you think that REGULATING THE INSURANCE COMPANIES IS ANYTHING CLOSE TO GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF HEALTHCARE.

That's what we think? ALL OF US? That said, once the government is deeply enmeshed in setting standards and reviewing the pricing and reimbursement rates for all the different procedures in the medical world, well, yes, THAT LOOKS A LOT LIKE CONTROL!!!

I know the WaPo will be all over this. Let's close with a photo of our fretful patient; this is from Sept 8 and the caption is reproduced below:

Well, it all started like fun and games morning until the gun went off. 3 hours and 27 minutes, 3,500 calories and 31 miles later, it felt exhausting but was a great accomplishment.

A marathoner turned tri-athlete. Let's all praise ObamaCare for relieving his worries.

OVERLOOKED BY THE WAPO: Don Surber passes along the story of Stephen Eimers, an independent contractor with seven kids. His old plan was disqualified by ObamaCare and despite more than 100 hours of effort Mr. Eimers can't weave through the new website all the way to an insurance card. A snippet:

Since October 1 I have spent over 50 hours navigating that terrible website and over 40 hours on the phone. I was able to complete the application and it was trying to force my children onto Medicaid. I had to make a change in the application that required the Advanced Resolution Center's help. After my initial request I was promised a call back within "48 hours." I'm on day 44 and 6 escalations later!

...

I finally got to the end of the application and noticed the website had changed my answer on filing a tax return from a joint return to not filing a return. I hit the edit button which deleted all my answers. The website then prompted me to answer questions about my dependents but a glitch would not let me do this so after another extended call to the 1-800# I was forced to delete my 2nd completed application. Stupid me decided to try again and I did the whole process and got to the end and the thing glitched again and said we were not filing a return AGAIN. An hour long call to the 1800# and guess what: completed application #3 was DELETED!

I am a true sucker so I tried again this morning. I made it through the application in about 75 minutes and got my eligibility. My wife and I along with our 2 year old son could purchase a policy but our 8,9, 11, 12,14 and 14 year old children would not be able to purchase insurance. Application #4 got deleted. I am done trying!

But we've made the country better for well-off triathletes who've been deferring their medical challenges. Win some, lose some.

OTHER WINNERS!: In the comments AliceH summarizes the other ObamaCare winners storied by the WaPo:

Dan Munstock: 62yo, he's fine. Just wants a checkup. Instead of, you know, going in for a checkup (Ranges $5-$200 depending on where he goes/what is included), he's happily paying $87.57 (after subsidies) for Health Insurance.

Nancy Beigel: 55yo. Now on Medicaid

Amy Torregrossa: 27yo. Used to be covered under her boyfriend's employer insurance (I didn't even know that was possible!), but he changed jobs in July. Neither seem to have attempted to go on COBRA or shop indiv. market. She has pre-existing condition, but apparently found it worth letting coverage slide until October. Now she's on a silver plan for $310/mo.

Emily Wright 28yo. Student w/ parttime job. She has many worrisome symptoms plus a pre-existing/diagnosed condition needing surgery. She's getting subsidies on a "top tier" plan for $125/mo.

 

 

Comments

[JIB]

Illinois. Says it all.

[Another Bob]

What a scumbag.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Now this is inspired. I will have to read this several times. But this is the type of pushback that has to meet every success story. BTW-- EVEN if he's NOT 'subsidized' directly by ObummerCare, he's costing the Illinois ExchangeCare insurer at least $20,000 in the very first year ($27K surgery less $475 premium and say $5000 deductible.) So ObummerCare enrollees like him who join because it pays for their DEFERRED medical care makes everyone who stayed insured, pay MORE. That is a subsidy any way you cut. This bastard proves the utter immorality of ObummerCare, it punishes the prudent and bails out the reckless.

[Janet]

Dare I answer his questions with a few of my own? First, for six years he has "saved" roughly $5,000 per year by foregoing insurance - that is $30,000. Now his emergency procedure set him back $27,000. Over the six years, that is roughly breaking even (we lack information on deductibles, co-pays and other medical expenses, mercifully). He self insured at roughly break-even - this is a problem why?

This is the kind of info that never gets examined with all the sob stories...the life choices that were made.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

I don't FB myself, but I imagine Mr Maguire will get a fair bit of FB hate for this thoroughly factual and judgmental (rightly so) post.

[Danube on iPad]

Breaking news: irresponsible parasites love free stuff.

Hope somebody brings TomM's analysis to his attention.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

BTW-- this guy is an absolute template for the 1,000,000 or so people who bought ExchangeCare-- they all come out way ahead by buying right now, which means they will bankrupt ExchangeCare insurers without the risk corridor bailout. repeal it asap.

[lyle]

A staff of "one to four"? Hmmm. Also, that kind of revenue would imply assets under management of ~$600 million at least. Unless he's doing nothing but annuities. Color me skeptical. I smell douchebag.

[peter]

lyle, that's Dem douchebag.

[AliceH]

Excellent post, TM.

I dug into much of that also and reached the same conclusion - w/o benefit of his Facebook or the Company revenues.

I am still curious about why he had surgery to remove a gall stone, vs. surgery to remove a gall bladder. The costs are similar, but near as I can tell via I'm-not-a-doctor-but internet research, that seems a highly unusual treatment choice.

I note every other "winner" seems to also be someone with expensive pre-conditions. Funny that.

[Sandy Daze]

Superb analysis, Mr Maguire.

I don't think I have ever thanked you for your tremendous contributions, so please accept now this belated, but most heat-felt, acclaim:

THANK YOU, Sir.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

BTW-- if our 1M ObummerCare enrollees are just like Adam Peterson, nation-wide ExchangeCare insurers would have to account for $20BILLION of losses in 2014 alone between rate increases OR risk corridor bailout money. The state insurance commissions won't give them squat for ObummerCare losses, so the federal taxpayers will be on the hook. Repeal the bailout mechanism, subject the ExchangeCare insurers to all of the losses. Let loose hell on the Dems.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

AliceH-- and the clear losers are.....?

[lyle]

I stand corrected, Peter, but it seems redundant.

[Jim Rhoads f/k/a vnjagvet]

Somehow, I don't think this guy's story will influence many 27 year old sub-employed college grads to spend several hours signing up for a bronze plan.

[Ignatz]

Coulda done without the pic.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

And while we are thanking TomM, please remember to vote for 10Million Miles on all of your online devices and remind friends to do so. Keeping Americares in the top 10 is the least we can do.

[glasater on iPhone]

Is our Dear Leader implying that a high protein/low carb diet is bad for one's gallbladder? /I keed... ;-)

[DebinNC]

Kudos, Tom. Al Gore sure didn't help Dems when he invented the internet.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

MOREOVER-- this mooching 50something is the profile the Insurance analyst posited last week in his interview. Enrollees are: Older, immediate chronic medical needs, NO subsidy. ObummerCare is bailing them out for a bad bet they made in life. They are free riders, I don't care how much they pay in premiums, the only reason they are paying is to get orders of magnitude MOAR medical services.

[Patrick R. Sullivan]

'...annual revenue of $1 to 2.5 million....'

There are a lot of these independent 'financial planners' around and most make closer to $1 ($30-40K) than a million.

Most of them are worth every penny, and considering the analytic skills the guy shows, he probably is too.

[JIB]

He still has a potential problem(s).

Will he be able to find a hospital that will take his newly bought exchange policy?

Will he be able to find a surgeon who will accept the new policy?

How does he know that both will negotiate reimbursement favorable to his new policy?

I still say 404Care has yet to get off the ground much less crash.

[Ignatz]

-- (the "Obamacare exchanges" in Illinois (without any subsidies) will bring my monthly premium in line to about $175 per month because I am finally going to be part of a large purchasing group)--

We already know he's paying $475 per month so;
1. this is a typo and as TM points out $500 was unaffordable but somehow $475 is,
2. the guy is an idiot and really thinks he's only paying $175 or,
3. the guy is a liar.

None reflect too well on our protagonist.
Of course, if you're a taxpayer I guess he's the antagonist.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

JiB-- the medical market will adapt to take ExchangeCare $$$. It will be Mezzanine care, between medicaid and real insurance. How good? TBD.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Ig-- per Patrick Sullivan's comment, I bet this Peterson guy qualified for a subsidy (but not Medicaid.) He's either lying about the subsidy or he's too stupid to realize it, remember the subsidy goes to the insurer not the enrollee.
BTW is this guy related to Norm Peterson?

[[email protected]]

[And via Twitter, Mr. Peterson is kind enough to inform me that no, he is not collecting subsidies.]

oops...maybe I should just go back to the music thread, since I looking for mood music.

[Ignatz]

Well NK, he was claiming bizarrely that without a subsidy it would be $175, but as TM notes that was before he actually had it.

[AliceH]

I am not seeing a link to the WAPO source article (which seems uncharacteristic). In case it's not there and you're interested, here it is:
Beneath health law's botched rollout is basic benefit for millions of uninsured Americans.

[JIB]

Meet Steven Elmers: Don Surber's Man of the Year

His story is more relevant to the disaster that is ObamaCare then the one above. Adam Peterson should read this and feel the shame.

If I didn't know Don Surber's integrity as a journalist I would call Elmers story fiction but it isn't - it is real and as such the Dems are in serious, serious trouble.

[[email protected]]

I've got nothing but this seems to be similar to the Frost's when SCHIP was expanded...they were good dems and were just shifting income to get the bennies. awesome. glad they teach something at UC MBA program.

am I imagining or did this post include a hot rod of a grill? wanted to get the list price for it.

[AliceH]

Other beneficiaries:
Dan Munstock: 62yo, he's fine. Just wants a checkup. Instead of, you know, going in for a checkup (Ranges $5-$200 depending on where he goes/what is included), he's happily paying $87.57 (after subsidies) for Health Insurance.

Nancy Beigel: 55yo. Now on Medicaid

Amy Torregrossa: 27yo. Used to be covered under her boyfriend's employer insurance (I didn't even know that was possible!), but he changed jobs in July. Neither seem to have attempted to go on COBRA or shop indiv. market. She has pre-existing condition, but apparently found it worth letting coverage slide until October. Now she's on a silver plan for $310/mo.

Emily Wright 28yo. Student w/ parttime job. She has many worrisome symptoms plus a pre-existing/diagnosed condition needing surgery. She's getting subsidies on a "top tier" plan for $125/mo.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

OK-- I opened the Twitter link, and Peterson tells TM that he does not 'qualify' for subsidy, rather than 'not collecting.' So where does the $175/month come from? bad reporter writing? probably.

[Danube on iPad]

The $175 figure is from September, when he didn't really know what his premiums would be. Odd, though, that he seems so sunny about $475 now.

I'll say it again: it is a sad but unavoidable fact that any sane insurance system must provide less satisfactory outcomes for those with pre-existing conditions.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

AliceH-- your 4 examples-- only one joins ExchangeCare without any admitted chronic conditions. But at 62, you know he'll have far more than $1100 in annual medical expenses-- oh-- but he is on direct subsidy so we are directly subsidizing the rest.

[[email protected]]

NK-

that's easy, he is a success story (campaign volunteer?, fundraiser?)...found my mood music, Arma-goddamn-motherf**kin-geddon...now I probably shouldn't get thrashed before I head into work...but...

[[email protected]]

maybe getting an early start...trashed...I guess I'm not in the running to be an Ocare success story.

[Beasts of England]

How did he already get his insurance card in the mail? Has he started paying premiums yet? Thought that started next week?

Love the way this tri-athlete conflates heath insurance with healthcare. What a turd.

[AliceH]

NK - the $175/mo was from Peterson's own earlier (before October, before exchange was live) projection of what his premium would be. Or, to quote TM preface to the Peterson quote, "posted last September".

Also, I can believe a 62yo would not, in fact, run up huge medical bills just because he's newly insured. Some people really, truly, are healthy and don't need to seek out medical intervention.

[narciso]

According to his linked in page, he started in 2006, his firm seems to have some interest in Skydragon avoidance techniques;

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/adam-peterson/16/598/662

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

BoE-- I think Peterson UCMBA'90 makes a very clear distinction between hetween 'health insurance' and 'healthcare.'
'Healthcare' is what he wants; 'health insurance' is what he wants US to pay for on his behalf. He makes that distinction very clear.

[AliceH]

okay - now I see the WAPO link. I also see my avatar is more rose-than-red. Maybe time for a walk!

[jimmyk]

Great work, TM. Too bad you have to do the basic research that journalists can't be bothered to do. Or won't do because they know the answer before they start.

Someone should team this a**hole up with Sandra Fluke, they make a great PR pair for the Democrat/MSM agenda.

[[email protected]]

>>>Love the way this tri-athlete conflates heath insurance with healthcare. What a turd.<<<

shouldn't he be required to give his UC MBA back (what is the ROI on one of those, even if he started a business, would think he'd have socked something away with over 20 years of work history-oh well.)

...user friendly...

[Tom Maguire]

I am not seeing a link to the WAPO source article...

Fixed! And we only make this look easy; I have been doing this for ten years now.

am I imagining or did this post include a hot rod of a grill?

That was in a 'now you see it, now you don't' earlier version; the point was to emphasize the likelihood that he had too high an income to collect a subsidy, which became a bit of a dead horse after his response.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

AliceH-- true enough about the 62yo, but as you know, one nonregularly scheduled medical appointment will eat up that $1100 subsized premium immediately. I'll never forget my son's $1700 sprained ankle last year at St Lou U medical center (covered by my health plan except for $75 ER deductible)

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

TomM--one editorial comment (seeing as you ignored the one I made in the previous post), I think it would be clearer to say Peterson has Tweeted that he is not 'eligible for subsidy' rather than not 'collecting', as the subsidy is paid by US taxpayers to the insurer not the Petersons of this world. Cheers.

[Comanche Voter]

Interesting about that insurance card and our erstwhile tri-athlete's concern about what happens if he gets injured in California. As I understand it, many of the new Obamacare policies are only good in the State--and in some cases even the county where the insured lives. So Cook County resident, your card just may be no good in Los Angeles, California.

That said, this morning's Los Angeles Times had some stories about people rushing to get tests or special treatments before year end. Ronald Reagan Hospital at UCLA Med school is a teaching hospital, and I know from personal experience and surgery there that it's loaded with specialists out the kazoo.{I had doctors from three different specialties, plus an anesthesiologist working on me to remove a pituitary adenoma.] That hospital will no longer be included in many of the policies issued by California Care. So if you are currently being treated there--or have been "referred" for some special procedure under your existing policy, there's been a rush to get it done before January 1. Or so says the Los Angeles Times in this morning's paper.

They also reported on a guy who decided to advance a prospectively needed reconstruction into this year (from say 2015 or even 2016) because he wasn't certain it would be covered under Obamacare.

I'd like to say that there will be more "winners" than "losers" under Obamacare--but then I'd also like to say that I am still young and handsome. Both events are equally likely to occur.

[[email protected]]

thanks TM. should have left it in as a demonstration of opportunity cost...

anyway...

oh look at the time, work, and not the bar. maybe I should open my own financial planning (?) instead.

[DebinNC]

Having trouble matching the 4 pics to the WaPo's names. I'm guessing Don is holding 2 doggies, Alan has a race thingy around his neck, the mannish older woman could be Nancy, which leaves the smiling young man to be either Emily or Amy. Not that's there's anything wrong with that.

[Ignatz]

Look at the basics of this story. This guy made the choice to start a new company which places him in the individual insurance market.
Now if this was that important to him he could have looked and found himself a job with health insurance benefits and could have had his gall bladder removed after 12 months as most group insurance, IIRC, limits insurance pre existing exclusions to 12 months, sometimes 18.

So all of our premiums go up so this guy can start his own company? Nice. He not only likes being his own boss, but ours too.

[Abadman]

Alice'
This guy sounds like he has gallstones. If a gallstone is the right size it can pass out of the gallbladder into a duct that runs from the liver to the digestive tract and block it. ( think Kidney stone)

It can require an endoscopic procedure, called an ERCP, to remove. I believe this is the "Surgery" he is referring to.

The gallbladder and the rest of the stones remain until removed.

I imagine he was advised to have the gallbladder removed during the same admission as his ERCP/stone extraction as this is standard practice.

Looks like he rolled the dice again that he could make it to Obamacare nirvana before another stone made it into his common bile duct.

Take home message, by screwing the rest of his insurance pool over, he is a success story.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Yep Ignatz. Adam Peterson wants his healtcare. And he wants the 200M (approx) USA insured workers/families to pay for it, in this case his $20,000net surgery. That's what he wants and he's not shy about... in fact he's damned cocky about it.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

I think the 2014 politics b/c of ObummerCare could be humongus-- at the State level. The Blue States with the greatest number of ExchangeCare signups will have the biggest rate increase requests from group/individual insurers because of the per capita losses per ExchangeCare enrollee. Are they going to slough those losses on to traditional policy holders to keep ObummerCare rates as low as possible? This could be a huge issue for the Blue Hells.

[narciso]

And there's no dental coverage, which is not a small thing;

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/12/30/obamacare-may-not-broaden-access-to-mental-treatment/

[pagar]

May not broaden access to anything.

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2013/12/27/healthcare-gov-delays-lead-iowa-to-ask-16000-people-to-reapply-for-public-insurance-via-state-human-services-department/article

[Jeff Dobbs]

Ig:
Now if this was that important to him he could have looked and found himself a job with health insurance benefits...So all of our premiums go up so this guy can start his own company? Nice. He not only likes being his own boss, but ours too.

We didn't have to pass Obamacare to find out this was in Obamacare. Nancy Pelosi told us this was in Obamacare:

“Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance or that people could start a business and be entrepreneurial and take risk and not be job locked...

That comes from a Pelosi interview on a Maddow show. I am not linking it for fear typepad would actually accept it where other links are denied, and that would make me cry.

Pelosi also told us this:

"We see it as an entrepreneurial bill, a bill that says to someone, if you want to be creative and be a musician or whatever, you can leave your work, focus on your talent, your skill, your passion, your aspirations because you will have health care. You won’t have to be job locked."

Now I'm not linking just because I'm lazy.

[JIB]

Iggy,

IOW's "he didn't build that, we did".

[jimmyk]

So all of our premiums go up so this guy can start his own company? Nice.

Obamacare encourages entrepreneurship! /MSMspin

[DrJ]

This guy made the choice to start a new company which places him in the individual insurance market.

I've never had any trouble getting group coverage for my dinky company (two full-time employees). Unless he was a lone eagle, that's true for this guy as well, unless CA and IL are very different.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

That Legacy Media spin will work really well for the guy with 3 kids who gets kicked off employer group plan b/c of ObummerCare, or sees his co-pay and/or deductibles spike. And that will happen to 50-80MILLION people this summer-autumn.

[[email protected]]

jimmyk-

>>>Obamacare encourages entrepreneurship! /MSMspin<<<

>>>Think of an economy where people could be an artist or a photographer or a writer without worrying about keeping their day job in order to have health insurance.<<<

or start their very own financial firm. who knew?

[narciso]

And they in serious need of that care;

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/12/dem-rep-
obamacare-enrollment-low-because-people-think-the-law-is-repealed-video/

[JIB]

NK,

BTW, 44% of doctors surveyed say they will not accept ObamaCare policies. War.

And like I said, Mr. Peterson has some reckonings ahead of him.

[[email protected]]

wow, I must be lazy, hit had the quote and more and I just stepped in it. back to lurking.

[Old Lurker]

"unless CA and IL are very different"

Judging by their Balance Sheets, not much difference.

Judging by their contributions to the political gene pool, not much difference.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

JiB-- is that because of the reimbursement schedules? BTW-- in Blue Hells the Drs will be put under tremendous pressure to accept the ObummerCare enrollees... hey there aren't many of them!

[narciso]

Shirley she can't be serious;

http://nypost.com/2013/12/24/nbc-news-boss-grills-meet-the-press-staff/

[jimmyk]

hit had the quote and more

Yep, I need to refresh before posting....

[DrJ]

From narc's link:

With “Meet the Press” slipping in the ratings, WME’s Ari Emanuel has been making a serious pitch for his clients, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski, co-hosts of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” to take over, several sources said.

Heaven help us.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Client #9 paid the hookers to let him choke them? he really is a sick bastard.

[davidian]

"• Uninsured children are 70 percent less likely than insured children to receive medical care for common childhood conditions, such as sore throat, or for emergencies, such as a ruptured appendix.

• When hospitalized,uninsured childrenare a tgreater risk of dying than children with insurance.11, 12, 13

• Uninsured adults are 20 percent less likely than

Kinda like a 'benign' abortion which is unintended neglect, but what about those immunizations? Your offspring exposed to dangerous disease, should prompt some narcissism.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

What is "Meet the Press". Is that a show about paninis?

[narciso]

Well it's already 'very silly indeed' but this would bring Zombie Graham Chapman,

[Captain Hate]

Shirley she can't be serious

Nothing says "ratings bonanza" like going to the MSNBC lineup.

[Danube on iPad]

Hit beat me to it with the Pelosi quote. Now everyone can be a bum without worrying about health care!

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

.. or worry about making cell phone calls, or buying beer at the supermarket, or defaulting on student loans, or collecting disability instead of working. Obummer really strives to make the USA look like ChiTown south side (except where barry's friends live-- natch).

[[email protected]]

immunizations? not covered anyway. and with SCHIP, medicaid, other state and federal programs was it necessary to overturn the whole market?

DoT...nice win for the Middies. Hope the foot is healing well.

[narciso]

Yes, there are the facts, and the idiocy they sold Kirkpatrick at the souk;

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/12/30/why-well-never-stop-arguing-about-benghazi/

[davidian]

"necessary to overturn the whole market?"

Depends on how consistent you wish to be about your concerns wrt innocent children.

Did I say 'consistent'? Well, then let's not worry about 'safe and rare'
genocide.

[jimmyk]

Client #9 paid the hookers to let him choke them?

What's that based on, NK? I haven't seen any bruise marks on pics of Lis Smith.

[Captain Hate]

This type of high brow material should make the new Meet the Depressed smoke the competition: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/30/msnbc-panel-hey-get-a-load-of-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/

[narciso]

Ari Emmanuel, 'the Devil's Advocate' he also represents Kathy Griffith, shrieking nazgul #5

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

JimmyK- Like the Soviet Ambassador in Dr. Strangelove, my source was impeccable, read it in the NY Post!

Now this guy comes up with a worry that is more cynical than even I ever dreamt up-- Yellen QE to bailout ExchangeCare insurers. OL-- I wuld go out into the street and toss Molotov Cocktails over that one: http://www.moneynews.com/newswidget/Obamacare-Train-Wreck-Derail-Recovery/2013/12/30/id/544340?promo_code=EB8D-1&utm_source=National_Review&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1

[JIB]

For Maryrose and CH:

"Are you sure the Browns aren't being run by the 3 stooges?"

I guess there are some journalists not afraid to ask the tough questions.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Family Emmanuel get togethers, are they held in Hades? Can you imagine that crew? Like the Sadaam Hussein Pere et Fils, only uglier.

[narciso]

Yes, Enemy of the State was just a movie, so was the Net;

http://nypost.com/2013/12/30/state-dept-whistleblower-has-email-hacked-deleted/

[Beasts of England]

Personal responsibility includes being responsible for your offspring, as well. I provided for my children and I expect others to do the same. The burden for their well-being should reside solely with their parents, and if that burden shifts to my tax dollars or policies that negatively impact me, then I want some restitution from the neglectful parents. Sterilization would suffice.

[Captain Hate]

Mike Lombardi is no better than Shemp. I think this is the maddest Browns fans have been, other than when Modell moved the team, since that shyster fired Paul Brown.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

BoE said: "Sterilization would suffice."

ah, so you are a progressive Dem like Woody Wilson and the family Sanger.

[Beasts of England]

Tebow joins ESPN as SEC analyst. So they tear the guy down and then offer him a job? Makes sense.

[davidian]

"Personal responsibility includes being responsible for your offspring,"

Agreed. Now keep your nose out of uterine concerns, and lighten up on the false compassion.

[Beasts of England]

I was being just a tad hyperbolic. Should have added the hype tag. ;)

[Beasts of England]

I don't have any uterine concerns - who the fuck said I did. Keep your strawmans to yourself, dick.

[boris]

... false compassion ...

says the poster troll

[Beasts of England]

lol, boris!

[Account Deleted]

BoE,

I'd go with something done to the prog trial lawyers who ginned up the immunization hysteria. Maybe send 'em out on a shark feeding viewing cruise. As bait. The Fukushima lawyers should be included as a precautionary step.

[Extraneus]

I and my employers paid for my family's virtually-unused health insurance for decades - hundreds of thousands of dollars - and this scumbag rolls the dice and waltzes in at the last minute for a free surgery on a pre-existing condition.

Yeah, I guess that's a success story, but I wouldn't be bragging about it if I were him.

[dick straw won't work out well.]

Did I stumble onto an outlier, not subject to abortion hysterics?

[JIB]

BoE,

davidian is Dana or possibly Anne but most likely Dana.

BTW, does anyone know of any college known by its nickname like "Ole Miss" than by its actual name "The University of Mississippi"? Ever since I was a kid I have never heard anyone use the U of M moniker for them.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Trial lawyers and the immunization con--

reminds of that joke, what does one call 20,000 dead lawyers on the sea bottom.....?