Spreading The Wealth

The Times waits until the Saturday before Christmas to drill down on the redstributive nature of ObamaCare, but they start with a doozy:

New Health Law Frustrates Many in Middle Class

By KATIE THOMAS, REED ABELSON and JO CRAVEN McGINTY

Ginger Chapman and her husband, Doug, are sitting on the health care cliff.

The cheapest insurance plan they can find through the new federal marketplace in New Hampshire will cost their family of four about $1,000 a month, 12 percent of their annual income of around $100,000 and more than they have ever paid before.

Even more striking, for the Chapmans, is this fact: If they made just a few thousand dollars less a year — below $94,200 — their costs would be cut in half, because a family like theirs could qualify for federal subsidies.

I know what everyone is thinking. Everyone! Over at ThinkProgress, some progressive is frantically typing "$100,00! Suck it up and quit whining, you wealthy exploiters of the less privileged! Time to share!" [The Washington Monthly delivers, denouncing a 54 year old secretary and a 55 year old retired firefighter as whining yuppies; sue me.] For their benefit the Times includes this:

The Chapmans acknowledge that they are better off than many people...

And on the right, folks are wondering just what this couple does because in New England a fifty year old teacher married to a fifty year old cop could easily be clearing $100,000, despite an absence of private jets in their lifestyle and the presence of a middle class vibe. And that is not such a bad guess:

“We are just right over that line,” said Ms. Chapman, who is 54 and does administrative work for a small wealth management firm. Because their plan is being canceled, she is looking for new coverage for her family, which includes Mr. Chapman, 55, a retired fireman who works on a friend’s farm, and her two sons. “That’s an insane amount of money,” she said of their new premium. “How are you supposed to pay that?”

Doies she think the price is insane? Wait'll she learns it includes mental health coverage! And maternity care! That'll cheer her right up.

As to the absurd tax cliff embedded in ObamaCare, we discovered that ourselves back in October. At 400% of the poverty line (which varies by family size) the subsidies bring the net premium down to 9.5% of income. Earn a dollar more than that, and the whole subsidy goes away.

So lets plug the current example into the Kaiser Family Foundation subsidy calculator. With income of $94,200 the Chapmans (two New Hampshire adults aged 55 and 54; two kids; I guess all to be non-smokers with a ZIP code of 03060) would get a subsidy of $6,360 per year to bring the cost of a Silver plan down from $15,309 to $8,949 per year, which is 9.5% of their hypothetical annual income of $94,200.

But - hard luck! - they earn a bit more than that, so their subsidy is zero. $530 a month is a lot of money for most people, but she works for a hedge fund or something like it so as far as our friends on the left are concerned, screw her. And screw the retired firefighter, too.

Of course, Mickey Kaus notes that people may just figure how to enhance the finagling of their taxes; the payoff to under-reporting income in the middle brackets has gone way up, especially at the subsidy cliff. That is a win-win for the left, since Pikkety and Saez can then report a decline in middle-class incomes and Obama can fret some more about rising income inequality.

This situation reminds us of the absurd defense of the random ObamaCare redistributions offerred straightfacedly and heroically by Jonathan Cohn of TNR. His gist - all the redistribution comes from taxes on Mitt Romney's sons and the other rich. We all know why he chose to ignore the obvious redistribution fail covered today by the Times.

MORE: Using the Kaiser estimator an intrepid researcher can search for subsidy cliffs all over the country. Which the Times did!

An analysis by The New York Times shows the cost of premiums for people who just miss qualifying for subsidies varies widely across the country and rises rapidly for people in their 50s and 60s. In some places, prices can quickly approach 20 percent of a person’s income.

Experts consider health insurance unaffordable once it exceeds 10 percent of annual income. By that measure, a 50-year-old making $50,000 a year, or just above the qualifying limit for assistance, would find the cheapest available plan to be unaffordable in more than 170 counties around the country, ranging from Anchorage to Jackson, Miss.

A 60-year-old living in Polk County, in northwestern Wisconsin, and earning $50,000 a year, for example, would have to spend more than 19 percent of his income, or $9,801 annually, to buy one of the cheapest plans available there. A person earning $45,000 would qualify for subsidies and would pay about 5 percent of his income, or $2,228, for an inexpensive plan.

In Oklahoma City, a 60-year-old earning $50,000 could buy one of the cheapest plans for about 6.6 percent of his income, or about $3,279 a year with no subsidy. If he earned $45,000, with the benefit of a subsidy, he would spend about $2,425.

Remember - We had to pass live with the bill the current version of the bill as arbitrarily re-defined by Obama to see what's in it.

STILL MORE: In addition to the light comedy provided by the Washington Monthly (a 55 year old retired firefighter is a whining yuppie?) we see Dean Baker discovering that health care is expensive even if it is hidden by employer sponsorship. We await the day he discovers that rising health care costs are a big part of the stagnant wage story which so vexes the guardians of the middle class:

Experts note that employers focus on total compensation costs—that is, the combination of wages and benefits— so increases in health benefits will result in lower wage increases than would occur if health benefits did not increase. The Council of Economic Advisers reports that between 2000 and 2009, workers’ average total compensation (wages and benefits) grew by 1.3 percent per year (after adjusting for inflation).

The growth rate of premiums for employer-sponsored coverage was much faster, however, averaging 5.1 percent per year (after adjusting for inflation) during this period. As a result, the portion of workers’ total compensation going toward employer-sponsored health insurance premiums expanded from 7.4 percent in 2000 to 10.3 percent in 2009. The average wages workers received net of insurance premiums (that is, after subtracting the employees’  premiums) grew by only 0.7 percent per year (adjusted for inflation) between 2000 and 2009.

Comments

[What could be simpler?]

Well, just print some more Other People's Money.

[Ignatz]

Unspoken in any of these discussions always seems to be the new quite high deductibles and copays of the Barrycare plans these people will be stuck with.
For 2014 they waived the out of pocket cap so it is potentially $13000+ per individual and will still be $6320 starting in 2015 per individual and $12,700 per family.
The people getting booted off of low deductible plans and forced into Barrycare are going to get a very rude awakening if they get sick. Lots of people get sick.

[AliceH]

Dr. Scott Gottlieb wrote this article in 2010:

http://nypost.com/2010/03/17/os-middle-class-squeeze/

[peter]

And if you haven't done so already, please vote at the LUN

[narciso,]

Just another day on threa;

http://therightscoop.com/presidents-weekly-address-good-for-you-sucky-republican-jerks/#disqus_thread

[mockmook]

"Experts consider health insurance unaffordable once it exceeds 10 percent of annual income."

I'm so glad there are experts out there who will tell me what is "unaffordable".

How much do these experts make and can I get a gig as one?

[Old Lurker]

As the shocked Liberal said "I was all for health care for the uninsureds until I found out I had to pay for it".

[Danube on iPad]

Shame on a nation that allows its government to do this.

[Account Deleted]

OL,

I find it heartening that the progs will have the folly of their pignorance reinforced every month. It's a shame the insurance invoices don't include the name of the prole being subsidized. Progs should get to know their proles just as well as Dr. Zhivago did. There's no need to wait until half their living space is reassigned.

[mockmook]

"Experts consider health insurance unaffordable once it exceeds 10 percent of annual income."

BTW, I'm glad to see that the above sentence is from the NYT.

I was loathe to give TM credit for the dumbest sentence ever to appear on the internet.

[Neo]

Just came in from my Senator:

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) recently announced a policy that would have required local governments to replace malfunctioning fire hydrants with new independently certified lead-free fire hydrants. This EPA regulation essentially made it impossible for local governments to repair fire hydrants or replace them with existing inventory. It was also uncertain whether fire hydrants that meet the new criteria were even available for purchase.

[Old Lurker]

Rick, I was thinking about you as I read TM's description of the "subsidy cliff" for that family making about $95,000 when a few dollars less would have given them a subsidy worth thousands.

You used to tell us about the Italians of virtually all income levels lying to avoid taxes. Here that had largely been avoided in the middle classes, but with TM's links one wonders how that can continue. And, like we teach our kids, and as Obama is now learning, once trust is gone it is very difficult to earn back. I say that once one has learned how easy it is to cheat on taxes, average prople will not look back once they cross over.

[Threadkiller]

Shame on a nation to design a nation that lacks standing.

[Old Lurker]

Neo, makes sense because, you know, lots and lots of children get way too much lead from the water used by firemen when the house is on fire. Makes perfect sense.

[how is it you are never responsible for anything untoward?]

Conservatives should sell their feces as deodorant. They'd only buy from each other, however, cuz only they think it don't stink.

[Old Lurker]

Seriously, in a city like DC in which many many waterlines (laterals) connecting the mains to the house meters are actually made of lead, I am sure that the lead that might leach backwards into the water main from the fire hydrant shutoff valve is a real big problem, right?

[Danube on iPad]

Imagine a nation in which standing was not required of the plaintiff in a lawsuit. Think it through....

[AliceH]

--Just came in from my Senator--

A great example of what irritates me most about GOP communications regarding regulations is how they rarely manage to send these little updates while public comments are open (and additional publicity through blogs, letters to editors, etc.) might affect their chances of going into effect.

Yes, it's very hard to keep up and prioritize, but criminy isn't it that part of the job description of an elected congressman or senator?

Here's a taste of how vast the problem is:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/364215/why-do-we-have-excess-regulation-and-can-we-get-rid-it-veronique-de-rugy

[Neo]

Documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden show that the NSA created and promulgated a flawed formula for generating random numbers to create a "back door" in encryption products, the New York Times reported in September. Reuters later reported that RSA became the most important distributor of that formula by rolling it into a software tool called Bsafe that is used to enhance security in personal computers and many other products.

Undisclosed until now was that RSA received $10 million in a deal that set the NSA formula as the preferred, or default, method for number generation in the BSafe software, according to two sources familiar with the contract. Although that sum might seem paltry, it represented more than a third of the revenue that the relevant division at RSA had taken in during the entire previous year, securities filings show.

LUN

[Ignatz]

Is Turkey spiraling out of control or will it reject Islamism and will the Islamists allow it to?

[Threadkiller]

Justice Department lawyer James Gilligan argued that Klayman lacked standing to bring the case because he could not prove the NSA examined his phone or Internet records.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/breaking/article/348989/20/Judge-NSA-bulk-phone-collection-violates-4th-Amendment

[narciso,]

Reminds me of that movie and TV series, the Net, where the internet security, the Praetorians were indeed the hackers.

[Danube on iPad]

Judge Leon ruled that Gilligan was wrong, and that Klayman had standing to sue.

[AliceH]

And if you haven't done so already, please vote at the LUN

Posted by: peter | December 21, 2013 at 11:14 AM

Thanks, peter!

[narciso,]

Judge Leon has been solid, ever since he was one of North's defenders 25 years ago,

Ratner who has defended Julian Assuange, is the
loon, who adores Che Guevara, and has a soft spot for the likes of KSM.

[maryrose]

clarice:
I will pray for your nephew and your sister.
Glad to hear your mom is on the mend and will soon be closer to you in location.
I am praying for all who have experienced illness and death of a loved one this Christmas season.We need to continue to support each other. You guys are the best!

[MarkO]

Standing is a function of your theory of the case on the merits.

I find the Government's position on standing to be disingenuous. It would continue effectively to preclude any judicial review.

To me, the inexorable result of such review will be to find, once again, the hallmark of this administration: lawlessness.

[Danube on iPad]

I would describe it as a function of your relationship to the injury caused by the wrongdoing. And these insurers would certainly have standing to challenge Obama's unilateral, unlawful amendments to Obamacare. But they won't, because they've sold out to him.

[narciso,]

Yes, they learned that lesson, from 'the Harry and Louise' instance,

[pagarnow]

Don't forget. Harry Reid is getting a subsidy.
He makes more than the Chapmans.

http://homegrownmedia.info/2013/12/18/harry-reid-gets-the-subsidy-and-we-dont/

[Account Deleted]

"because they've sold out to him"

I don't believe "they" and "him" accurately describes the level of fascism achieved by BOzo and his "corporate partners". The meld isn't seamless but over 50% of BlueGovIns revenues are derived from managing Fed medical expenditures.

Toss in the health care unions and Mussolini would be downright proud of the success achieved by progressive corporatismo.

[matt]

There was a lovely article in the NY Times about how the creative class is taking it on the chin with Obamacare. They're confused and afraid now. Wait until they need to see a doctor.

[J. Fred Muggs]

Simians don't need heatlh care insurance. We pay in cash or bananas which ever one is acceptable.

But Lou Dobbs just told me that "Turns out Phil will be starring in DD after all. Backlash stopped the media bullying, A&E found out the Middle Class can be Activists too!"

I read here that some guy named DublinDave was dissing on the rednecks in the South but he obviously has never been to his native Ireland. If you want to see red necks, think summer in Dublin or in the winter there is a thing called travelers. Rednecks? The biggest are the ones who drink Guinness.

[DublinDave]

So, what. you stupid monkey.

God made a liberal

Suck it up.

[Ann]

You have to see this catchy little Christmas jingle promoting out2enroll.org:

http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/obamacare-jumps-the-shark-with-gay-christmas/

[Patriot4Freedom]

matt - They may be confused and afraid now, but many don't yet realize they're facing a multi-front assault from
"O-caca-care."

An assault on *their* finances, healthcare, and choice of doctors and hospitals. Premiums of $8,000-10,000; higher co-pays; deductibles of $12,000 or more; and a paltry selection of doctors and hospitals from whom they can actually receive treatment.

How fitting that their progressive dream of remaking our healthcare system is turning into a nightmare for them, too.

[Sue]

Several of my progressive FB friends are beside themselves. Someone shared a satirical article that said basically the Pope has declared all religions are true, the Bible is evolving, there was a third Vatican council and anyone who doesn't support immigration will be excommunicated, etc.

http://diversitychronicle.wordpress.com/

I'm continually amazed at the stupidity of people.

Every time I tried to post a comment telling them that FB ate it.

[Sue]

They are so proud of the Pope. What happens if they figure out they are idiots?

[centralcal]

Good grief, Ann! That video is so lame.

Sue, idiots never quite do figure out that they are - idiots.

[Danube on iPad]

Every time I think about Roberts the steam starts coming out of my ears. Let's hope that his opinion will be ranked alongside Dred Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson. Look at the havoc his last-minute chickening out has inflicted on the country.

[Patriot4Freedom]

Stephanie - Here are my picks for today's college games (have to list the rest of the bowl games later, as more Christmas shopping beckons) . . .

Washington State (Yeah, it's already halftime,
but they're a lock on paper)
USC
San Diego State
Louisiana-Lafayette

Thanks for offering your "spreadsheet services" for the bowl games, you little minx, you ;>)

And . . . MOST importantly, congrats on your continued recovery and good health prognosis ! ! !

[Account Deleted]

"What happens if they figure out they are idiots?"

Sue,

Ripley's should be notified immediately. It would be worth a couple of pages in the next edition.

[MarkO]

Christmas vituperationing. Roberts deserves our scorn. The last man who could have saved us.

[Sue]

I say what if because they will probably never know that they are spreading satire. It's like whack a mole, you tell one and another is crowing about the new enlightenment of our man of the year.

[clarice]

Thank you, maryrose. My mother is doing splendidly. Her recent situation was, I am persuaded, largely iatrogenic--her quack medicare doctor was misprescribing meds for her. Now, I'm looking for a place closer to me to move her to in a couple of months.

I remain concerned about my nephew. A very fast growing tumor has sprung up in the area where the cancer was removed a couple of months ago (and once before 19 ears ago). Apparently the plan is to use knew chemo drugs to cut off blood flow to the tumor and then excise it once it has shrunk.

My sister will do nothing on her own account to find out how serious her situation is--that is, a biopsy until my nephew i better. I'm hoping it's the right decision.

[rse]

Roberts could have saved us, but his ruling would have been represented from the get-go like Bush v Gore.

And no lessons would have been learned by the creative class losing their health insurance.

This coup going on now has been aspired to for decades. Many elements of it were never properly understood and now it is coming at us like a tsunami. And healthcare is a disaster and hitting progs dead on and education is accurately understood for the cultural change it is. And people are understanding there is no prosperity in these plans for us unless you are the nomenklatura.

Honestly they only way to defeat the Nazis was to invade Europe. The only way to evade what is intended for us is to recognize precisely what we are dealing with, who benefits, who gets hurt, and move on.

I hate Roberts' ruling but we are finally going to have to confront and slay this dragon. If we can, historians will consider this a second, or is it third?, Hundred Years War.

[rich@gmu]

getting car serviced. Mall isn't all that crowded. Pita to read the comments on this crap phone.

[anonamom]

That doesn't seem like the right decision for your sister Clarice--she needs to take care of herself. He and his family are going to need her down the road more than he does right now.

Avastin, the drug that interferes with blood vessel growth that I am assuming they'll be using, is generally well tolerated. It can have serious side effects/ complications (bleeding), but the actual regimen isn't taxiing.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Greetings from Texas.

mrs hit and run chose sleep over liveblogging so we are left only with this re-creation of our overnight drive from NC to TX.

11:00pm South Carolina. woot
Atlanta!
Alabama!
Talladega!
Letters from a Birmingham jail
Tuscaloosa!
Louisiana!
Nobody serves Cajun nuthin for breakfast. Boo!
RAIN!
12:08pm we made it!!!!

For those scoring at home, we set the land speed record: just under 16 hours for that route.

[Account Deleted]

RSE,

I'd place the end of BOzocare next to the League of Nations and FDR's court packing as markers of the end of a period of progressive idiocy. If we wish to call the series of failures beginning with the descent into slaughter of the French Revolution in 1793 a war, then we're at 220 years, with the last hundred far bloodier than the first one hundred and twenty.

Revel was a bit premature with The Last Exit to Utopia. There is still a very rich vein of progressive idiocy left to be mined by the Feather Merchants rotting away in our institutions of lower indoctrination.

The OPM has to dry up first.

[Patriot4Freedom]

rich - Belated congrats on the great grades this term!

btw, "Convention" says you should stay for your degree, rather than leave early for a new job. Makes good sense, because when people meet you, they'll recognize your knowledge and intelligence, and expect you to have one.

Not getting a degree causes most people to focus on that - as an expectation they hold - rather than concentrating on your positive qualities. Sad, but that's the world as it is, rather than how we'd like it to be. That's my 2¢ worth, such as it is.

[JIB]

Its Christmas.

Where are the Bob Hope's of the World

Think about it. We have two major wars and conficts but no Bob Hope for the troops. Who is going to step up? Eminem, Beyonce, Lady Gaga, Kayne?

Maybe Jay Leno will feel a little guilty but I doubt it.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-20/obamacare-confusion-sends-hospital-admissions-lowest-record

[Stephanie]

Gary Sinese (sp), Trace Atkins, lots of country folks and some of the American Idols lesser-bes are usually out in force for our troops, JIB.

[JIB]

Hit,

You are either nuts or much younger than I even use to be to drive that at night. I once drove a similar distance when I was young and drank a 12 pack of beer with my friend.

It resulted in me meeting a mermaid at a joint in Virginia Beach. Now you know why I stopped drinking beer:)

[Stephanie]

Anyone else want to get in the football pickem? I got an email from CCal and P4F above and me and that's about it. Y'all are making me sad. :(

Just finished two batches of pecan brittle and two batches of white trash. Pulling the thermometer out of the brittle to add the baking soda and butter, I dropped a 300 degree blob of candy on my thumb. I don't think I made Alice's most mannered list with that one. #$%@#$^@$# it hurts like #$%#.

[Beasts of England]

Congratulations on your first leg, hit. Did y'all just pole vault over Mississippi or did you not notice anything worthy of reporting?

[JIB]

Steph,

Not like Bob Hope was. Still waiting for the Trace Adkins Christmas special from Afghanistan on ABC:)

Who is going to step up? No one.

[Janet]

Gary Sinese (sp), Trace Atkins, lots of country folks and some of the American Idols lesser-bes are usually out in force for our troops, JIB.

The Duck Dynasty guys went! ...& the wrestling guys always go too.

[Stephanie]

did you not notice anything worthy of reporting?

Asked and answered. ') Unless you do I-10 and it appears they didn't. I-20 past Alabama is the most boring drive ever... except maybe I-16 from Macon to Savannah. Maybe a tie. Maybe.

[JIB]

I respect those people for serving the troops but there is no replacement for the Bob Hope show.. I guess you had to be therer.

[Account Deleted]

"is the most boring drive ever..."

Bakersfield to Yreka on I-5. The shift from cotton fields to rice fields is the highlight of the 9 hour trip.

[Beasts of England]

@Steph: I-10 from New Orleans to Houston is the most miserable drive I've ever made. Ugh.

Sorry about your thumb! And I totally gelled with the bowl picks. I'll blame it on work. ;)

[clarice]

anonamom, I agree but cannot persuade her.
I think Roberts' decision was wrong, but I agree with rse, it would have been seen as political. Now the opes see what the Pelosi-Reid-Obama nitwits have done and I really do believe the tide is turning against Obamacare and big govt ) an even crony capitalism).

[Stephanie]

Agreed, JIB. They don't make em like Bob, Sammy, Dean, Frank, Rachel, Marilyn etc anymore.

I was watching some infomercial for Carol Burnett's funniest funnies and waxing nostalgic for truly funny TV shows about 5 am this morning - so sue me for watching an infomercial - I got to see "Went with the Wind" and the famous Bob Mackey drapery dress. But for 5 payments of $19.99 I wasn't biting. I wasn't that high on my meds...

[Stephanie]

Not too late to get your picks in... We're only 2 games down and 30gazillion to go.

[Extraneus]

The Duck Dynasty guys went!

What did they do there? They don't sing or dance or tell jokes, do they?

Anyway, I'd bet the men there would vote for female entertainers over any of these dudes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Service_Organizations

Stars such as Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Betty Grable and Rita Hayworth had traveled over a million miles.

...

Edward Skvarna remembers 1943, when he met Donna Reed at a U.S.O. canteen and asked her to dance. "I had never danced with a celebrity before, so I felt delighted, privileged even, to meet her. . . . But I really felt she was like a girl from back home." Jay Fultz, author of her biography, states that soldiers "often wrote to her as if to a sister or the girl next door, confiding moments of homesickness, loneliness, privation and anxiety."[18]

[Danube on iPad]

Sorry to have missed the pool, Steph.

[jimmyk]

In the end, IF OCare goes down in flames (meaning it's actually repealed), the public figures out that progressivism isn't the answer, and an era of smaller government is ushered in, Roberts will have done us a favor. That's a lot of "ifs," but it could happen. I still wish Roberts had gone the other way, but maybe the lessons would not have been learned, just as they weren't by the demise of Hillarycare 20 years ago.

[DrJ]

hit,

That's an impressive drive -- about 1100 miles. Did Mrs hit take a shift?

I used to drive pretty regularly between Phoenix and either the Bay Area or Auburn. That's about 800 miles, and the best time I managed was 11 hours (a single stop in the LA area for gas).

I can't do that any longer. A 300 mile round trip to San Jose and back leaves me exhausted. The ravages of age...

[Beasts of England]

I'll take Colorado State and USC in the first two games...

[jimmyk]

I-10 from New Orleans to Houston is the most miserable drive I've ever made.

I-70 through Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Eastern Kansas is no picnic (sorry Miss M and AliceH).

[jimmyk]

I-10 from New Orleans to Houston is the most miserable drive I've ever made.

I-70 through Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Eastern Kansas is no picnic (sorry Miss M and AliceH).

[matt]

It is actually pretty amazing how many entertainers and athletes get out to the bases. Right now we are in full turtle mode in Afghanistan. ROE's are very restrictive. mainly our guys go out after high value targets. There is very little interaction with the Afghan people off base.

Most of our people are now on FOB's which can be huge. So the celebs fly in and do shows and the kids are very, very grateful. A number of friends have posted pics of themselves with people like Sinise and Adkins and others who also make/made a real effort to get out to even the small bases.

It really is a two Americas issue, though. Can you imagine a Simon Cowell or a Bob Barker? But why not Leno or Letterman or the others?

[Extraneus]

Even if it does go down in flames, the SC now has a new precedent to add to Millard v Fickburn, thanks to Roberts. They'll be able to use the stare decisis excuse until after the Revolution.

[boricuafudd]

BoE and Stephanie-

I always thought that I-85 from Virginia to Greensburg SC, the worst. That is until I drove I-15 from Barstow to Las Vegas and then from US 95 from Las Vegas to Reno.

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

Lol beasts. That USC pick is getting a little dicey, though.

Not too late DoT or anyone else. I was thinking about doing 2 winners - all bowls and another for the BCS bowls only plus the championship game.

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

Yep that one sux too Bori. As does the drive on the west va turnpike/I40 from NC to Charleston with two bursts of hell in the two tunnels with all the 18 wheelers. EEK. white knuckle driving at its worst.

[Beasts of England]

Hey bori - I've heard those desert drives are rough. Never driven west of Texas myself.

Don't know if you've seen, but Annette finally showed DW the door.

[Beasts of England]

@Steph: I'd like to go ahead and reserve the right to adjust my picks once the games are completed.

[Captain Hate]

I'll have to compete in Steph's BCS only pool. Plus Maryland will win the Bag of Dicks Bowl.

[Captain Hate]

is the most boring drive ever

Cleveland to Cincy. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Beasts of England]

Must be an awesome looking trophy, Hate!

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

Oh look, it's the smurf bowl.

Ok time to make the cookies. It's too humid to do any more divinity. :( It's friggin warm in the house and if I open the Windows I'll be fighting it worse and the cookies won't rise properly. @$&#!

[jorod]

We could have avoided this by electing John McCain. But people didn't like Sara Palin. So they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

[DrJ]

For a boring drive, try Denver to Chicago. Corn fields most of the way. LA to Phoenix is no treat either.

[JIB]

Route 20 between Ontario,Idaho and Bend, Oregon.

Do not be nearsighted.

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

10" tall, beasts. :-D

[Captain Hate]

Roberts could have saved us, but his ruling would have been represented from the get-go like Bush v Gore

Doing the right thing is not always popular. Sometime you have to be willing to take a hit to your carefully manicured image in order to have the personal satisfaction of knowing that you adhered to the document you swore to uphold.

[DrJ]

I should add one good thing about the LA to Phoenix run: almost no speed enforcement. One can average 95 mph or better once you hit the desert.

Or so I've heard.

[Captain Hate]

We could have avoided this by electing John McCain

Speaking of the Bag of Dicks Bowl...

[Janet]

Not Donna Reed, but some of the girls back home look like this too.

[Janet]

A Christmas show that aired on TV - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/WWE_superstars.jpg

[Beasts of England]

I noticed that their shirts said 'Freedom', Janet. It wasn't the first thing I noticed, but I did eventually see it...

[Captain Hate]

McMahon, for all his flaws, always puts on a well received WWE show for the troops.

[Sue]

Craig Morgan spends a lot of time entertaining the troops. C&W

[Ignatz]

--Bakersfield to Yreka on I-5.--

Come on, Rick. Mount Lassen, Mt Shasta just to name two nice landmarks.

Any highway in or near Barstow CA makes I5 look like Hwy 1.

[Dave (in MA)]

Seen on Facebook.

[Sue]

The Harlem Globetrotters are also doing

[Janet]

That's really funny, Dave!