Truth Creeps In On Little Cat's Feet (Kill Me Now)

Slate celebrates the first anniversary of Newton by doing some basic research on gun violence in America. I kid you not, they have just discovered suicide:

Since the massacre at Newtown, Conn., Slate has scoured the Web for information on gun-related deaths and adding them to this interactive. As the months unfolded, it became clear that even though thousands of people were being added to our database, we were missing thousands more. Now that we’re hitting the one-year mark, the full extent of that deviation is clear: The CDC counts about 32,000 people killed with guns each year, while Slate’s database only has one-third of that. Why the huge discrepancy?

Earlier this month Slate launched an effort to categorize the gun deaths in our system. That effort verified the source of the discrepancy: suicides. We’ve missed nearly all gun-related suicides, because our information is based on media reports, and the media typically avoid reporting on suicides.

Our interactive reflects the picture the media paints of gun violence in America: One in which guns mostly kill homicide victims, with the occasional accidental death thrown in. But that’s immensely different than the reality of gun violence. In reality, two out of three gun deaths are suicides, not the one out of 10 our interactive suggests.

I can think of plenty of good reasons for the media not to report on suicides, but how could this be news to Slate?

Well, let me send them on their voyage of discovery with two additional insights. First, when hyping the urgency of gun control and the perils of gun violence in America, the key figure is the 30,000 total of homicides and suicides. How could an assault weapons ban or a limit on magazine capacity impact the suicide rate, you ask? Don't ask - it's 30,000 deaths and maybe we are having a crisis of suicidal people shooting themselves sixteen times and bleeding out.

However, when the topic segues to the intersection of mental health and gun violence, well, the mentally ill are victims, so the relevant baseline is the homicides. Why the exclusion of suicides? As is so often the case, I lack the mental acuity of the typical liberal, so I can't explain why on this topic the liberal media has this sudden loss of compassion and unwillingness to seek the regulation of others for their own protection.

That said, some sort of mental health screening might well bring down the suicide rate [link-Israel experience]:

EK: As I understand it, there’s a stronger link between guns and suicide than between guns and homicide. And one of the really interesting parts of your paper is your recounting of the Israeli military’s effort to cut suicides among soldiers by restricting access to guns.

JR: Yes, it’s very striking. In Israel, it used to be that all soldiers would take the guns home with them. Now they have to leave them on base. Over the years they’ve done this -- it began, I think, in 2006 -- there’s been a 60 percent decrease in suicide on weekends among IDS soldiers. And it did not correspond to an increase in weekday suicide. People think suicide is an impulse that exists and builds. This shows that doesn’t happen. The impulse to suicide is transitory. Someone with access to a gun at that moment may commit suicide, but if not, they may not.

 To be fair, Slate does run a good piece on suicide and guns today.

MORE: To be really fair, Ross Douthat was all over the suicide issue last January. By way of contrast, here is the NY Times Joe Nocera, who has been tracking gun control since Newton, keeping us current as of Saturday morning:

According to Slate’s gun tracker, as of Friday evening, there have been around 11,460 gun deaths in the year since the Newtown massacre.

I am trying to believe that he understands the difference between "homicide" and "suicide". I am also wondering why he is not troubled that the Slate death rate is nowhere near the 30,000 national figure we might have expected. The Times has covered the suicide angle [my reax] and Mr. Nocera has even mentioned it in his writing. This is a Times pundit who has been obsessing about gun violence for a year, and he is about to discover what the rest of us knew a year ago. I am not agog because this is business as usual among our pundits, but honestly...

Comments

[whiny beaches]

Here's the problem; You are addressing the issue from exactly the direction they choose. Try focusing on the mental health aspect. They can't argue against that Dr Feelgood issue.

Keericed ! Need I spoon feed you as well?

[narciso,]

Well TM, the problem is they never actually look for a solution, the venn diagram from Columbine on, through the last half dozen incidents including probably today would suggest mental health protocols are the problem, but they don't fit the agenda.

[Ignatz]

Tell me again why I should listen to somebody this effing stupid?:

As the months unfolded, it became clear that even though thousands of people were being added to our database, we were missing thousands more. Now that we’re hitting the one-year mark, the full extent of that deviation is clear: The CDC counts about 32,000 people killed with guns each year, while Slate’s database only has one-third of that. Why the huge discrepancy? Earlier this month Slate launched an effort to categorize the gun deaths in our system. That effort verified the source of the discrepancy: suicides. We’ve missed nearly all gun-related suicides, because our information is based on media reports, and the media typically avoid reporting on suicides.

If they were capable of shame they would have quietly folded their tent on this issue when they realized their stupidity and gone onto something they know at least a little about like bong hits and STDs.

[Rob Crawford]

This would close all the special consideration retired and off-duty police get, right? Because every gun control law I've ever seen exempts them.

If so, it'll never happen. Gun grabbers depend on the police unions supporting their laws, and anything that puts the police on par with the average citizen will be soundly rejected by the unions.

[narciso,]

Well you remember Rob, in the mad stampede in NY, they did exactly that.

[whiny beaches]

"anything that puts the police on par with the average citizen will be soundly rejected by the unions."

An interesting idea, but how does it work extralegally? There's always been a sense amongst LE that they are exempt from the same laws/codes they impose on those under their thumb; us.

Their social club membership usually has codes of conduct that are not that dissimilar from codices of Hells Angels Charter in the 60's.

You place an awful lot of trust in the Club you don't belong to.

[Beasts of England]

'...categorize the gun deaths in our system.' System? Their spreadsheet is a system? lol

[narciso,]

They do seems to have an interesting methodology, no one told them, corollation does not equal causation,

[Rob Crawford]

You place an awful lot of trust in the Club you don't belong to.

WTF are you talking about? Did you even read what I wrote?

[Skoot]

The wacky signer could have jabbed a pen into O's neck Joe Pesci style in about 0.4s and no gun could have stopped him.

[Beasts of England]

And now for something really important: Saban staying in Tuscaloosa. Sorry Horns...

[Stephanie looking forward to the bowl games]

Yea, beasts!

[Gus]

So tell me again why it's a right to VOTE without an I.D. but the RIGHT to KEEP and BARE arms requires a background check?
Slate? Anyone? Buehler?

[JohnH]

It's a quiet night Gus.

[squaredance]

Well they are just warming up.

See here .

It really is only a matter of time before the disarm us. They really have too.

Do you really think that the GOP will stop them?

The coup is [proceeds apace. The GOP has given away the game this week.

(And Bloomberg was elected as a Republican, no less).

What a mockery we have become.

[Eric in Boise]

I'd pay really good coin to witness a beer summit between Dana and
squaredance.

[Gus]

Dana is a WINE SPRITZER girl.

[BR]

Following on after AnotherBob's in a previous thread about the strange death of HI Health Dir. Fuddy - this from ABCNews:

She was doing fine out of the airplane.

9 people on board, all survived except her.

Uncanny, just last week I was thinking Obama should retire on Molokai.

[BR]

Very odd. She was in a life jacket floating with the others. How could she just "let go"? Hope she left a witnessed letter somewhere safe in case of death.

[Danube on iPad]

"It really is only a matter of time before the disarm us."

Squaredance, you stupid shit, take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.

[BR]

And why is the NTSB so quick to say they won't inspect the plane. Or look for her body for an autopsy.

[Beasts of England]

I really hate not to fan the flames of a good conspiracy theory, but why would someone want to get rid of the health director now?

[BR]

Ha, BoE, because I said it's time that TK be vindicated.

Actually, there could be many reasons. Perhaps Fuddy regretted and became talkative.

[BR]

Conflicting reports on Fuddy's body:

"[Rev. at] Killilea said Fuddy's body was taken to the settlement's care home where he held a prayer service for her. Her body was later taken to Molokai General Hospital."

Star Advertiser 12/12/13

This seems to contradict what the Rev. Killilea is reported to have said in the ABCNews article - that her Assistant, Yamamoto told him he was holding her hand in the water as they were floating and then she let go. Unless he meant she died while floating.

[Beasts of England]

True, BR. But as I told a buddy the other day who still loves the fake birth certificate idea: even if they proved the Hawai'i certificate to be fake, displayed a real Kenyan CLB, found Lucifer to be his grandfather, and showed him to be half-Martian; he wouldn't be removed from office. Ain't no way.

[BR]

Straws add up.

[Beasts of England]

If only, BR. No one would be happier than me.

[BR]

Also, the longer he stays in office, the more he discredits the -isms and allows time for those who are saveable by having their noses rubbed in it.

[BR]

It's as if he was artificially inserted into the time track to attract and concentrate the poison all in one place to fast forward to the cleansing. God is getting impatient with the lilliputians :)

[Gus]

DoT, the glove are off.

[Gus]

Half Lucifer?? Hahahahahahahaha. One ounce black equals ALL BLACK. One ounce of piss in milk equals ALL PISS. The complete Orwellian absurdity of what we are facing, and yet BARELY a ONE is fighting. Ted Cruz is CRAZY!! Sarah Palin said that their were DEATH PANELS!!! GASSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPP. There are VERY FEW among us, who have balls!! I have balls. DO YOU??

[Miss Marple]

Good morning. Snowing here again.

It's not even officially winter!

I see Twitter has restored the former blocking method due to a massive protest.

[centralcal]

MM: restoring the blocking on Twitter is a good thing, I think. Besides having it used on me (Mr. Fournier), I have used it once or twice for what seemed like dicey, x-rated follows - probably spammers.

I see Fournier in my timeline this morning, so wonder when the "block" kicks in again?

[Miss Marple]

I don't know, centralcal. I read a story about it this morning so assumed it had already been restored.

Now I am NOT blocked by Fournier, with whom I have a cordial but prickly running debate. I have a list of people who have blocked me (most stemming from the primary battles of 2012). Brad Thor, Dana Loesch, Jake Tapper (THAT guy from early in the Obama 1st term. He does not tolerate criticism well) and John Podoretz.

I have only blocked 2 people, both of whom were psycho lefties.

Thor took exception to my disdain for Rick Santorum. Loesch didn't appreciate being reminded that she attacked Romeny long after he had the nomination so she shouldn't keep carping that he wouldn't come on her radio show. Podoretz was also in the primaries, but can't remember why.

[narciso,]

Well I'm always skeptical of Tapper, for longstanding reasons, Podhoretz was always carrying the Top Men's talking points, Loesch
was maybe too zealous on behalf of Akin, then again we still needed to defeat weasel McCaskill.

[centralcal]

Ah, yes. John Podhoretz. I "unfollow" him every now and then - he is one I can only take in very small doses. lol.

Tapper is very thin-skinned, so it doesn't surprise me that he has his finger poised on the "block" feature. I don't follow Thor or Loesch.

I figure I hit a nerve with Fournier. He was tweeting rapsodically (not a word or spelled wrong?) about Obama's inequality speech and how it "echoed" other famous, well know speeches. I merely asked him if echoing was like copying? WHAM! Blocked.

[boricuafudd]

BoE
Why now? Let me list the reasons if you want to believe such things:

To change the subject, get people talking about a conspiracy

To discredit anyone that suggest or covers the story as a conspiracy

To bring back the birthers to the forefront and see above

To send people down another rabbit hole

Those are a few reasons that I can think up right now, I am sure we can think of many more. All of them beside the point as if, there was any evidence that Obama was not born in Hawaii it is long gone. That is not to say that I believe that only that this is chasing a rainbow.

One other thing if evidence was unearthed, does anyone think that there is the will in Washington to do anything about it?

[peter]

rhapsodically you left out the "h" [email protected]:36

[centralcal]

Thanks, Peter!

[narciso,]

well that will go down the memory hole;

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24721367/arapahoe-high-gunman-held-strong-political-beliefs-classmates

[narciso,]

Talk about the groove yard of forgotten favorites,
in a Vizzini way'

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/12/13/sochi-olympics-nbc-hires-soviet-union-apologist-who-called-its-1979-inva

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

I don't see how all these thousands of things that we post about here & expose will ever change unless we can shrink the federal government.
The insanity & theft is overwhelming...& it doesn't change.

[Skoot]

The latest CO shooter was a socialist who railed about Adam Smith per Ace. Guess he just couldn't wait for single payer

[narciso,]

But they don't want to do it, Janet, not even trim it at the edges.

[peter]

I received a letter from my kids' school district- well one of the dozens of administrators. It is so funny to read. The entire district is liberal, and the confusion inherent in this writer's mind comes through in the letter. It starts out with an homage to Mandela. Then, apparently, because Commie Core is creating havoc in the schools, goes on to a confused rant about how the district is committed to Commie Core principles, but is experiencing difficulty due to an "uneven rollout." It's just like Obamacare is a great idea; just the implementation is bad. Aaahhh libs, you can't live with them and you can't shoot them.

[Extraneus]

One other thing if evidence was unearthed, does anyone think that there is the will in Washington to do anything about it?

I'm not a birther, and don't get involved in the arguments, but I think it would be great if some evidence were uncovered and the whole country found that, in the ridiculous swoon over this fraud, we'd accidentally elected a foreigner. It doesn't matter if anything legally was done to address it. Just the egg on faces would be worth it, and his name would go down in history as an acronym: One Big Ass Mistake America.

[narciso,]

If they realized what was going on, they would meltdown like Harry Mudd's androids.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/13/3816902/fabiola-santiago-haunted-by-newtown.html

[Extraneus]

It would affect his speaking fees, too.

[Steve]

We have a LIVE STREAM of the Nelson Mandela funeral and memorial posted now on Common Cents:

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2013/12/watch-live-live-streaming-of-nelson.html

[Tonto]

MaryD (two threads back): "The Darien family in Auntie had a really funny name, that I think was used as an innocuous double-entendre. I'm having a senior moment and can't remember it. Help!"

The Upsons. Their "estate" was called "Upson Downs."

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Exactly right, Extraneus.

Obama is such a liar. Here's that Selma speech, posted by libs, that is full of lies. Phony accent, lies,...& the people sitting there are just nodding their heads & sayin' "amen" to a bunch of lies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

a comment at the video - "Oabma is lying. The 1959 airlift was organized by Tom Mboya, and airlifted 81 Kenyans, including Obama Sr. The Kennedys did not get involved until July 26, 1960...after Obama Sr was already in Hawaii. The Kennedys donated $100,000 to help with the second airlift. The Selma march across the bridge took place in 1965. Obama was born Aug 4, 1961. Do your research. The above are facts that prove Obama is a liar. I am glad this speech was put on you tube...it exposes Obama as a liar."

[narciso,]

They still insist there are five lights, Janet only the full clockwork orange will work.

[boricuafudd]

Extraneus-

I agree but this is another reason why I feel that should such evidence exist it will not not see the light of day, not for many years.

The amount of deception, collaboration or just pure willful ignorance that would be required will touch many people, powerful people.

Not to mention the damage that it will do to the country, not to say that he is not damaging enough. But I could see constitutional challenges to anything that he signed as President, for instance.

[Threadkiller]

The Founding Fathers wrote the eligibility requirements with the express intent of allowing a nation to throw egg in the face of a foreigner.

The Constitution was a spin-off of Lorne Michaels "Independence Night Live", but with interior writers.

[Threadkiller]

...inferior...

[rse]

Peter-

I imagine the school admins would not be too happy to know you understand CC better than they do.

I received a copy of a letter yesterday from the head of one of the largest companies to a state governor. It informed him they would not be hiring employees from that state if they did not get back on board with CC.

Especially meaningful as I am reading the 1939 book The Vampire Economy at the moment.

[narciso,]

No it's not, TK, the problem lay in what he lectured on at Chicago, what he did as a community organizer, that should have kept him out, but McCain dropped the ball,

[narciso,]

'virtual drives' are not permitted rse, the entire system must be vulnerable to the code,

[Jane]

I'm not a birther, and don't get involved in the arguments, but I think it would be great if some evidence were uncovered and the whole country found that, in the ridiculous swoon over this fraud, we'd accidentally elected a foreigner.

He'd just say he didn't know. "My mother always told me I was born in Hawaii because she knew I would be discriminated against in racist American if I was a foreigner."

[boricuafudd]

Narc

Absolutely, but not only did McCain dropped the ball but the media helped to concealed everything or to downplay it.

What grates me the most was he was re-elected after, by then nobody cared. Now many are saying if we only knew, it was there all the time no one was listening.

[narciso,]

Our local Top Gal scribe in my fishwrap, Dockery, reads the script so well, it must be method,

[boricuafudd]

Jane-

Don't give them any ideas!

Though if that were to happen, I fear that there are many who would see that as a legitimate excuse. Not only that but would defend him on that basis.

[narciso,]

No, it's the way, chop shops and other scams operate;

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/14/george-will-on-latest-obamacare-fixes-this-is-like-watching-government-by-teenagers/

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Look at this at Am. Thinker - http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/12/will_the_mockingjay_catch_fire.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

[Ignatz]

Aaahhh libs, you can't live with them and you can't shoot them......yet.

[narciso,]

the tail wags the dog;

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/12/mahmoud-abbas-rejects-boycott-of-israel-as-american-studies-association-votes-on-boycott/

[narciso,]

Actually, the 'Let it burn' proponents at the Horde, miss the point, the left has shown it's propensity to take up the torch, the gun, the club, then hide all the evidence.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

~ the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself ~

[narciso,]

Might have been good to know this at the times;

http://www.timesunion.com/news/politics/article/Confusion-security-risks-at-Nelson-Mandela-event-5064145.php

[MarkO]

Why should we believe anything Obama says? Anything?

[Charlie Martin]

We have a LIVE STREAM of the Nelson Mandela funeral and memorial posted now on Common Cents:

No you don't. A "live stream" is what happens when you run video as the event is taking place. Even with the Einsteiniean rejection of simultaneity, that's not a live stream unless you are at least 65 billion miles away.

Which would be too much to hope for.

[Danube on iPad]

"Perhaps Fuddy regretted and became talkative."

I imagine you'd feel a teensy bit better if there were a shred of evidence of that having happened.

Consider: the conspirators are so clever and so omnipotent that they can arrange the crash of a Cessna with ten people aboard, have all ten survive the crash, but poor Ms. Fuddy perishes in her life jacket. Just don't ask them to build a website.

[Danube on iPad]

"But I could see constitutional challenges to anything that he signed as President, for instance."

And you would see them summarily dismissed by every court in this land.

[narciso,]

A fair point, only statements say at the AFLCIO, or SEIU or at fundraisers, like 'the bitter clingers' statement really count,

[narciso,]

Reception from the Oort cloud, is not that sharp, Charlie.

[Danube on iPad]

"To change the subject, get people talking about a conspiracy"

Right. Just watch, as all the news media cease coverage of Obamacare and focus, laser-like, on the conspiracy.

"To discredit anyone that suggest or covers the story as a conspiracy"

They do a pretty bang-up job of that on their own.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

...unless you are at least 65 billion miles away.

Which would be too much to hope for.

Good Lord, ChaCo, what's your problem?
Steve posted a link to the video of the live stream.
I appreciate the links that Steve posts.

[narciso,]

It was the global version of the Wellstone funeral, however the victorian gents in Tom Wolfe's words, sought not to focus on large blocs of it.

[narciso,]

Btw, Volodya is s concerned about AGW, they are building five nuclear power icebreakers,

[Captain Hate]

Btw when does Johnny Boehner get a show on MSLSD? He already has Pelosi Galore, the Searchlight Pederast and Tweety singing his praises. Maybe he can replace Alec Baldwin's spot for lashing out incoherently at people you'd think are on his side.

[dublindave]

Ha ha Megyn kelly had to retreat behind the "it was a joke" rock for cover.

She looked like she was about to cry during her "Relax kids,Santa and Jesus ARE white" rebuttal "

No,Megyn,you and Fox news are not targets of the lame stream media and no they don't sit around all day plotting against you(crazy lady).You're racists that deliver the opportunity for objective criticism on a silver platter time and time again.

[Jane]

Boricuafudd, exactly.

Janet, what is that?

Dudu, once again you saw a very different segment than I did. You didn't watch it, did you?

[Jane]

Juan Williams just announced he is a libertarian.

No one could stop laughing.

[Account Deleted]

"they are building five nuclear power icebreakers"

If the title of Orwell's book were 2014, Winston Smith's MiniTru assignment would be at the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia, shaving tenths off historical temperature records and eliminating any references to the Medieval or Roman warming periods from historical records.

The SkyDragon may be in worse shape than Obama. Changing the name to Nessie and diving for the briny deep doesn't appear to be working.

[DrJ]

Interesting:

China on Saturday successfully landed its first unmanned lunar probe on the moon, in the latest milestone for the budding superpower's space ambitions.

[Beasts of England]

Go Army! Beat Navy!

[Sue]

Go Navy! Beat Army!

[AliceH]

I'll have to go with:

Go nephew! Go other nephew!

[Beasts of England]

A guy has a dog that does a back flip every time Navy beats Army. His buddy asks him, 'What does he do when Army wins?' He says 'I don't know. He's only 12 ears old.'

[Beasts of England]

*years*

[Threadkiller]

"HONOLULU (AP) — After a 70-year-old Hawaii man survived a flight that crash-landed in Hawaii waters, he swam about a half-mile in 6-foot waves to Molokai's rugged shoreline, thinking the eight others aboard the small commercial plane were fine bobbing in their life vests, awaiting rescue.

C. Phillip Hollstein Jr. said Friday he was surprised to learn later that one of the travelers was killed, Hawaii Health Director Loretta Fuddy. The others on board suffered only minor injuries.

When the lone engine of the small plane failed, the nine people on board stayed calm as the aircraft glided toward the ocean and made a remarkably smooth belly landing, Hollstein recounted.

He said the pilot, Clyde Kawasaki, expertly maneuvered the plane after the engine failed, avoiding what could have been a catastrophic impact on the water.

"He did everything right," Hollstein said. "He set it up for the best crash-landing you could do."

The engine on Makani Kai Air's 2002 Cessna Grand Caravan turboprop cut out less than a minute after takeoff from the island of Molokai on Wednesday afternoon, just as the plane was making a turn toward its destination of Honolulu, Hollstein said.

There was a "muffled bang," he said, and "then we were a glider."

"Everyone was real quiet. We hit (the water), and it was all about getting the belts off," Hollstein said. People put on life jackets and remained in the plane until it started sinking, he said.

"There wasn't panic or anything. It was very orderly. It wasn't like any of the movies or the TV shows," Hollstein said.

Hollstein swam for shore when he saw that everyone was out of the plane, guessing it took 90 minutes.

Fuddy, who gained attention after deciding to publicly release President Barack Obama's Hawaii birth certificate in 2011 to rebut claims he was not born in the United States, was clinging to the hand of her deputy, Keith Yamamoto."

[squaredance]

DOT:

Just the sort of juvenile, and idiotic post one expects from you.

All boozed up and surly are we? Mindless, ill-educated and surly blowhard.

How amusing. You really do not know how you expose yourself, do you?

You merely demonstrate that I quite have you pegged. you know I am right and that is just what angers you so.

Too funny.

[Danube on iPad]

Appears the Colrado shooter was inspitred by Alan Grayson. I'm sure the MSM will be all over that one.

[Danube on iPad]

Hide, squaredance, and hide your weapons too. They're coming to disarm you.

[Threadkiller]

Danube picks a fight with squaredance and now begs him to hide. Must be another form of fun that I was unaware of.

This is the JOM people have come to love.

[boricuafudd]

DoT

That courts may deny the challenge will not some from trying. A variation of the "Clean hands doctrine", unclean in these case.

Agreed, but conspiracy theories are specially good for making people look stupid and Obama can use it to claim that he is being persecuted by CP nuts.

Absolutely, but that is an apple to oranges comparison. The website is something that was dependent on other people and not on their total control.

[Ignatz]

--They're coming to disarm you.--

I guess when they say they're going to ban guns they're just kidding....
....just like they were in the UK and Australia.
I don't expect Americans to roll over like the Limeys and the Aussies but neither do I think the American fascists are any less intent on grabbing them, by force if necessary.

[MarkO]

Iggy,

It's all about conditioning. A little TSA, some NSA, a bit of IRS, a dash of Obamacare. On a war footing, even Lincoln suspended the Constitution.

Who's going to stop him?

[[email protected]]

yikes. walked into a food fight. afternoon all.

[[email protected]]

MarkO-

who is Obama going to start a war with?