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January 02, 2014


Publius of Idaho



second...is the link broken, or am I just a goofball.


Well it works for me, rich, but that's no guarantee it will work for everyone.

Account Deleted


The NBER fluff study has been superceded by the followup mentioned within the NYT fluffer.

The gist of the NEJM results:

Characteristics of the respondents are shown in Table 1Table 1Characteristics of the 12,229 Survey Respondents.. A total of 12,229 persons in the study sample responded to the survey, for an effective response rate of 73%. There were no significant differences between those selected in the lottery and those not selected with respect to the response rates to either the full survey (0.28 percentage points higher in the group selected in the lottery, P=0.86) or specific survey measures, each of which had a response rate of at least 97% among people who completed any part of the survey. Just over half the participants were women, about a quarter were 50 to 64 years of age (the oldest eligible age group), and about 70% were non-Hispanic white. There were no significant differences between those selected in the lottery and those not selected with respect to these characteristics (F statistic, 0.20; P=0.99) or to the wide variety of prerandomization and interview characteristics examined.

The NYT crowing was a tad premature.


Like Obama, Obamacare has the reverse Midas effect- it turns everything it touches to foecal matter.

Comanche Voter

Ah peter I would have said No S#@t Sherlock, but you beat me to the shovel. There's going to be a lot of stuff shoveled about the wonders of Obamacare over the next months. But ultimately the whole thing will stink like the manure lake at an Iowa factory pork farm.


adventures in health care up near Janet. MM dropped the link in the other thread...




I'm a goofball. It eventually worked.


--When Health Care Costs Less People Demand More Of It--

And that is why we need single payer.

When people demand more of something from a free market the market will deliver a supply.

When people demand more of something from the government the government will deliver them on a gurney to the morgue.
Presto! The demand curve drops precipitously.

Miss Marple

Hey, Science!!



If this story is true, boy do I need a good Lawyer for a heckuva Class action Lawsuit: A lack of sleep 'damages the brain in a similar way to being hit on the head'

And speaking of Lawsuits, I wonder when the first pilot files a Lawsuit to demand that he should be able to smoke legal pot in his legal time off? I think Active Duty Military folks might press the same argument , tho' with a little bit less success.

Seriously JOM Legal, do you guys see any Lawsuits like the above being successful as a result of the new marijuana Laws?

No reason:)---just for interest.

Dave's not here man.

Danube on iPad

"There's going to be a lot of stuff shoveled about the wonders of Obamacare over the next months"

Tens of millions of Americans are going to be screwed by this law, and they won't give a damn what gets shoveled.

Miss Marple

daddy, how were those cross-winds in Paris?

When I left Heathrow last Monday, they were pretty bad and we had a bumpy ride until we got some altitude.


That previous study reminds of this;



Thank you Miss Marple!

From your link:

Dogs have been found to be sensitive to the Earth's magnetic field and choose to align themselves along the north-south axis before they defecate.

I think I have found my next area of serious study.

Janet (and Jess), JIB (and Bandit and Jazz), get out your compasses guys and start taking readings.

Plus I'll keep my eye's peeled for moose droppings!


And it will be more difficult to get to those emergency rooms because many hospitals will be out of the system, as will more and more doctors.

MediCal has already driven many of the best doctors to opt out and the new demands for factory like treatment will drive more out.

The Leftists out here don't talk about that part of it.


MM,that dog pooping study makes me laugh. Our dog has to get his poop location just right. Now I know he is being scientific about doing his business.


Pioneer conservative talk show host Bob Grant has died--probably from the shock of tuning in to his old WABC radio station and hearing Curtis Sliwa and Ron Kuby in place of Rush Limbaugh.

Rob Crawford

Miss Marple's 6:34 suggests a new way to navigate. I do wonder, though, if it's influenced by the amount of iron in the dog's diet.

Account Deleted

"the government will deliver them on a gurney to the morgue"

If you read the NEJM study I linked above you'll find that for only $1200 in additional expenditures per year the proles will climb on the gurney grinning like Lenny listening to George's story about the farm.

A 40% increase in ER visits just as flu season is kicking in should put a smile on Dr. Zeke's face. There's just nothing like jamming a reaper ready population into a confined space with a good contagion spreading to get the results he's looking for.


how were those cross-winds in Paris?

Miss M it was terrible last night. Did an out back from Paris to Cologne. Paris was blowing like crazy, had a wet runway (which increases landing roll distance), and the wind at the time we were landing was off exactly at 90 degrees, reported as blowing at a steady 25 knots with gusts to 35 knots. For us Mad Dog boys (MD-11) that's a lot, since we have such a reduced tail surface and you are close to running out of rudder authority with those wind-speeds. Plus we were in the ice at about 2,000 feet both climbing out and on return, and things were very bumpy at altitude, with winds of 58 knots starting at only a few thousand feet above the CDG runway.---just all around nasty.

Cologne was beautiful, clear night, and I was hoping the plane would break so I could hustle downtown for their wonderful beer, but no luck breaking darn-it-all.

Tonight it was forecast to be as bad, but it was much less so. No ice, much smoother ride, and a simple out and back to Frankfort. Germany was still clear and smooth, and on landing back in Paris the wind was off the nose about 70 degrees and only gusting to about 20 knots, no bid deal at all, and the runway was dry.

Just had time to dash to the Bercy Hotel (near downtown Paris) and have a large Affligem here at the bar as they announce last call and I start catchup!


One thing that amazed me about the study was how often people use the emergency room:

On average, the Medicaid recipients visited ERs in 12 Portland-area hospitals 1.4 times during an 18-month period, compared with 1.02 visits for the control group without insurance.

I have used the emergency room once every 20 years, not months. MrsJ has about the same emergency-room usage.

How can someone go once every year or year-and-a-half?



Unless the law has changed Emergency Rooms cannot refuse treatment. So the hospitals either the hospitals will be stuck with the bill or taxpayers, regardless.

Rob Crawford
Paris was blowing like crazy

I've always thought Paris blew.


It's hilarious how people want healthcare that is affordable.

In fact; it's a LAUGH RIOT for the well-off.

Rob Crawford
I have used the emergency room once every 20 years, not months. MrsJ has about the same emergency-room usage.

How can someone go once every year or year-and-a-half?

They want to meet George Clooney.

Miss Marple

For years I have noticed the dogs deliberately pacing around the yard looking for the perfect poop position. I thought it was funny and pointed it out to my husband and kids. They thought I was nuts.

As far as I can tell from observation of my own dogs, they do orient north-south. I always thought they were watching for intruders and such, since the north and south fence lines are pretty much clear, while the west side is pretty much our house and the south fence line is covered by trees.

Now I know they are taking compass readings when they poop!


Must be nice to live levels above the the average sucker whilst in France. How does it feel to live high on the French Hog?

Miss Marple


My last use of the emergency room was 11 years ago. However, I can remember my mother (5 kids) making repeated visits for head lacerations, broken bones, etc.

So maybe some of the difference is because they are people with younger children, who tend to require casts and stitches and such.

Otherwise, I have no explanation.

Rob Crawford

Get a load of the loon in the LUN.

Jane-Rebel Alliance1

I've been to the ER twice in my life - both since Romneycare.

One excuse for creating Romneycare was to clear out the packed ER's. The people who frequent the ER's are people looking for a free meal, free drugs or a TV to watch. I suspect every ER in the state is packed tonite because it is 9 degrees out.

These people don't have insurance and never will - even if it is free. It will be exactly the same under Obamacare all over the country.

Rob Crawford
In fact; it's a LAUGH RIOT for the well-off.

That's why Pelosi was barking laughter while she was carrying the Mighty Gavel. She knows she's taken care of.

Listen, troll, people are being denied healthcare BECAUSE OF OBAMACARE. YOU WANTED THIS. THIS IS YOUR DREAM. WE NEVER WANTED THIS.

We knew the system we had wasn't perfect -- and that perfection is impossible in the real world -- and that giving air-headed theorists in government more power over us would just screw things up even more. AND WE WERE RIGHT!




So maybe some of the difference is because they are people with younger children, who tend to require casts and stitches and such.

I tried to think back to the days when I was young. As far as I can remember, I went to the emergency room once from birth until I was 18. Even when I was approaching anaphalactic shock from dozens and dozens of bee stings, we didn't go to the emergency room.


"One excuse for creating Romneycare was to clear out the packed ER's. The people who frequent the ER's are people looking for a free meal, free drugs or a TV to watch"

Shit fun for free, as it were. We love sitting in plastic non-ergonomic iron maidens watching a reality show, so we can get some pain-relief or anti-biotics for free. The only thing worse is having an atavistic shell of humanity, telling me I'm doing CUZ it's FREE.

Rob Crawford

Shut up, Dana. You've never lacked for anything in your pampered life.

Miss Marple

My lawn guy cleared my lawn tonight. He asked me if I had signed up for Obamacare, which I did not since I am on the Medicare punishment plan.

He has had to deal with it, and he is Not Happy. Had to tae his infant son to ER and is now stuck with a $5000 bill because of the deductibles. His wife is appealing the bill. He said it was chaotic as no one knows who is covered and who isn't (as was detailed in a link I provided from a Daily Mail article about a California hospital).

We will survive this, as I am convinced Americans will figure out ways to bypass this stupidity plus ignore anything Obama says. Obamacare will end up being some abandoned program which still gets funding, sort of like some of those Depressionera programs.

I despise these people running our government, and the troll can go pound sand. I hope he ends up eating from a trash can.


--How can someone go once every year or year-and-a-half?--

At least three ways.
1. The ER functions as their primary care physician.
2. The ER functions as hospital admittance rather than personal doctor referral.
3. You get chronically sick like Mrs. Iggy was. Last time either of us had been there for ourselves was as children. Once you're chronically ill with something bad episodes pop up where you transition to a state that does not allow for slow poke admittance to the hospital. In the years 2006, 11,12 and 13. we used the ER at least five times.


"We knew the system we had wasn't perfect"

Hellfire, you say. When was that opinion propounded from the pulpit of Beck and Limpbaw?

Maybe you meant 'perfect' from the perspective of profit. No claims paid....BUILLIONS in profit dispersed amongst the elite one percent =perfection. Thanks for the perfect raison d'etre.

Account Deleted

Now the prog scum is an imaginary Medicaid recipient. I'm certain he defrauded enough students at Pitzer College over his thirty years as an indoctrinator to have a very nice health package, far better than the innocent and ignorant proles he raped and plundered along the way.

Miss Marple

DrJ, There were 5 kids in my family. I am the oldest.

I went to the ER FIVE times for stitches in forehead, left forearm, left knee, left foot, and right foot.

Next sister went for hand and forehead stitches.

Next sister went for broken arm.

Youngest sister went for stitches in forehead and leg, as well as sparkler burns.

Baby brother went for broken ankle and huge lump from getting hit by a baseball in the forehead.

We were a rowdy bunch.


as suspected by many

Delayed Departure Of Several Hours Likely Caused Doomed Vessel To Lose Race Against The Weather - See more at:




Of course if you are chronically ill then you may need to use the emergency room more than others. The study is an average over a pretty large population, so that suggests the primary-care "choice" probably is right.

Still, one trip to the emergency room every year of year-and-a-half? Really?

Account Deleted


You are applying a rational standard to a population which does not and probably can not. The reason the actual health of the population did not improve with additional care is the same. Making poor choices is rather endemic when the means to make a rational choice does not exist.

Danube on iPad

"Seriously JOM Legal, do you guys see any Lawsuits like the above being successful as a result of the new marijuana Laws?"

I don't. After all, booze is legal, but they can still prohibit your flying within X hours after drinking, or with an excessive blood alcohol level. Problem is, there are no such handy measurements for pot. But they'll figure it out. More important, perhaps, is that it's still a violation of federal law.

I say this with the expertise inherited from my grandfather, author of the 24-hour rule (no alcohol within 24 hours before flying). My naval aviator buddies tell me that it has evolved into the 24-foot rule (no drinking within 24 feet of the airplane).



YIKES!!! The pisser puss isn't even worth yelling at.

Miss Marple

You know, I see a lot of poor people every week at the food pantry. Most of them are not a bad lot, just simply suffering hard times. Their biggest problem is that they are uneducated.

If you have small children and they are sick, you tend to go where the doctors are, which in their minds would be those big buildings called hospitals. linics and emergency med places and such aren't always open.

The poor try to get care as quickly as possible, and don't want to go through bureaucratic BS any more than we do. Hence they go to ER's.

BB Key

MM, did you visit any ER's in Italy :)


" now stuck with a $5000 bill because of the deductibles."

For those who get a $5000 dollar bill and have to put it on a credit card because their budget is already maxed out.

"To keep it relatively simple, let us assume you have an outstanding balance of $5,000, the annual interest rate being charged is 12% (1% per month) and the minimum payment is 2% of your outstanding balance. If you just pay the minimum of 2% ($100) and have no additional charges, $50 of the payment goes to pay the interest and your balance is paid down to $4,950. If you continued on that schedule, it would take you 299 months (almost 25 years) to pay off the balance."


IMO, most people who live paycheck to paycheck can not afford $5000 deductibles.

Miss Marple

No ER visits in Italy. However, they were debating revisions in their healthcare program in Parliament, which was right across the square from our hotel.

Lots of people showed up and yelled at the building, and there were a lot of carbanieri there to keep things from getting out of hand.

We had a cab driver who explained it to us, and said that he was from the right and was disgusted with all of the talking. Made me feel right at home!

Danube on iPad

"It's hilarious how people want healthcare that is affordable."

It's even more hilarious that they think everyone else has a duty to give it to them. More hilarious still is that they elect clowns who make it even less affordable.

In the end, the parasites always have shitty lives. And that is to be celebrated.



I really, really hope a Crown Prosecutor lights those jackasses up.

BB Key

Have any of the people who do the graphics on basketball courts ever watched a game on TV ?

Danube on iPad

"How does it feel to live high on the French Hog?"

Absolutely wonderful. How does it feel to be a blood-sucking, whining useless parasite?

Pretty lousy, I'll warrant. And that's good.


Too funny. The apparent reluctance to dissuade lurkers that you are anything but corporatists, like the present occupant of the WH, makes one wonder if the cat's out of the bag, and the bagmen have acknowledged those facts as true without exception.

Any who wish to dispute the validity of this unholy marriage should speak now, or forever hold their sanctity of marriage vows, disavowed.


Miss Marple,

Dogs have been found to be sensitive to the Earth's magnetic field and choose to align themselves along the north-south axis before they defecate.

This also intrigues me re: Navigation on the high seas during the 17th/18th Century and eons before. If it was overcast and you'd lost your lodestone or compass or your sight of the Big Dipper, imagine how valuable it would have been to simply have your pup squat on the deck and give you a fecal paste point to Polaris!

If this hypothesis is true, I have to believe that it has been noticed before by ancient SeaFarer's and that it would appear somewhere in the archives or the ancient doggerels chanted aboard ship about navigation. What a very interesting observation.



Miss Marple

daddy, I am serious about watching my dogs. I have done so for years, and laughed about them finding the perfect place.

They always orient north-south.

What an interesting idea about ancient seafarers!

Now it doesn't work if you have dogs on a leash, I notice. This might also explain why dogs are reluctant to poop while on a leash.

I note also that when I walk my dog, she never feels the urge to poop until we round the corner and head north.

Danube on iPad

"MM, did you visit any ER's in Italy"

Actually, my wife had a dental emergency in Rome, and taking care of it cost $1,000 for a two-hour treatment. When I asked our lovely guide why the Italian system didn't take cate of it, she said "Oh, it would! But she would have had to wait until March."

Meantime, my trip insurance carrier has picked up the tab. Purely private. Profits made all around.

The dog barks, but the caravan moves on.

Miss Marple

Danube, I imagine the premiums we paid for our trip insurance helped pay for your wife's treatment.

I am not at all upset about this. I paid for the peace of mind, your wife got the treatment. All is good and working the way things should.

Meanwhile, they are no doubt still yelling at the Parliament building in Rome.


Thanks america;

Here, according to the Census Bureau, are the 30 counties that had the highest median household income in 2012: ....County..................................Median Household Income 1. Falls Church City, Va....................................... $121,250 2. Loudoun County, Va..........................................$118,934 3. Los Alamos County, N.M.................................$112,115 4. Howard County, Md........................................$108,234 5. Fairfax County, Va...........................................$106,690 6. Hunterdon County, N.J....................................$103,301 7. Arlington County, Va..........................................$99,255 8. Douglas County, Colo........................................$98,426 9. Stafford County, Va...........................................$95,927 10. Somerset County, N.J.....................................$95,574 11. Morris County, N.J..........................................$95,236 12. Montgomery County, Md.................................$94,365 13. Prince William County, Va.................................$93,011 14. Williamson County, Tenn..................................$93,003 15. Putnam County, N.Y........................................$92,950 16. Nassau County, N.Y.........................................$92,543 17. Santa Clara County, Calif.................................$91,195 18. Charles County, Md.........................................$89,203 19. Marin County, Calif..........................................$88,654 20. Hamilton County, Ind......................................$88,429 21. Delaware County, Ohio....................................$87,470 22. Forsyth County, Ga.........................................$87,380 23. Calvert County, Md.........................................$87,215 24. Anne Arundel County, Md................................$87,083 25. Fairfax City, Va................................................$86,963 26. Scott County, Minn.........................................$86,324 27. Fort Bend County, Texas.................................$86,037 28. Suffolk County, N.Y.........................................$85,717 29. St. Mary’s County, Md.....................................$85,478 30. Rockwall County, Texas...................................$85,164 - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/census-dc-suburbs-dominate-wealthiest-list-falls-church-va-where-31#sthash.yZnbv8zS.dpuf

Miss Marple

ricjh, I see Hamilton County in Idnaian made the list. That's the north side of Indianapolis, full of highly-paid execs plus most of the pro athletes from the Colts and the Pacers.

I live on the south side, where people are not as affluent. We do, however, pay cash.

BB Key

R!oll Tide !


and of course the formatting would break. good thing we don't have a barrel.

Here, according to the Census Bureau, are the 30 counties that had the highest median household income in 2012: ....County...
1. Falls Church City, Va. $121,250
2. Loudoun County,Va $118,934
3. Los Alamos County, N.M $112,115
4. Howard County, Md $108,234
5. Fairfax County, Va $106,690
6. Hunterdon County, NJ $103,301
7. Arlington County, Va $99,255


Can't find the main text of the Science piece, you need a AAAS #, but from an earlier one in this series, it has been counterintuitive to the intentions,


This was the piece from one of the authors;


Miss Marple

Magnetic dog pooping is sweeping the internet!



Somebody should show that list to Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer, rich.
They could then sponsor a bill moving everyone under the median income to those counties (with a suitable buffer zone or moat and armed guards for any of our pols who might live there too) and then they'll all be above the median and, Presto!, no more low income people.
We wouldn't even have to mess with the minimum wage.



we have 13 of the top 30 in my slice of heaven and points north up by Old Lurker. I live in 5 and 2 and was looking to upgrade to 1.

nice guys finish fast

Looks to me like the Beltway takers working in DC are gonna haveta ante up. Screw the public unions and revolving-door scabs with contractors binge syndrome.

Just desserts.


Here's one spin on the report;


Rob Crawford
YIKES!!! The pisser puss isn't even worth yelling at.

Tapped a vein of bitterness there. The self-proclaimed compassionate are GD blaming US for the harm THEY caused. I'm sick of this shit.

They made this mess, they need to have it hung around their necks.

Rob Crawford
The apparent reluctance to dissuade lurkers that you are anything but corporatists...

WTF? Have you been in Colorado partaking?

YOU are the GD fascist. YOU were the one arguing FOR this slice of tyranny.



don't give them any ideas. and the min wage issue seems to be gaining steam. the plan is to send it to 10.10/hr. just full of awesome.


He does like poking beehives, with a honey filled stick;



"YOU are the GD fascist. YOU were the one arguing FOR this slice of tyranny."

For someone with a reputation for smarts, you sure are a douchenozzle, Marmalard.


narc, I'm an AAAS member so I'll pull down the publication. But tomorrow, as it is cocktails time and I'm in the house. The AAAS membership number isn't.


>>>They made this mess, they need to have it hung around their necks.

Posted by: Rob Crawford<<<

agree with you 100%.


Thanks Dr. J, I'm sure the data is no less damning then the conclusion, since that's the mean data point they are citing,

Miss Marple

Heading to bed.

Good night, everyone!


good night to you miss marple.


Well, in Dana's defense, it must be pretty depressing to look back at those 30 odd years spent grinding away at 12 hour work weeks, 8 months a year, pitilessly sucking the retirement accounts of working class Americans dry, or sticking young kids with more debt than the mortgage on his first house cost, and see how little he has accomplished.


I'm one of seven children. My mom visited the emergency room over 50 times raising us. We were klutzes. But each time was an emergency. Broken bones, blood, stitches,etc. I'm old enough to remember the doctor that delivered most of us coming to the house for routine matters. When he retired our new family doctor didn't do house calls. An office visit required a 15$ payment at the time of the visit.


Even before it was Carlos Slim's sandbox, they were lying;



$59,416 per year for 2013-2014 (on campus with room and meal plan).

Maybe we should get an ocare program going for the high cost of higher education.

Rob Crawford
Maybe we should get an ocare program going for the high cost of higher education.

And make it more expensive?


I went to the ER when I was 15, when I broke my nose in a car accident. Next trip was when I was 49. Thursday morning at 6:15 DrF noticed the tick that had been hanging around on the small of my back since the previous weekend's girl scout camping trip. I was so freaked out that I wasn't willing to wait until the clinic opened at 7.


I think rich, had tongue planted in cheek, Rob,

Rob Crawford

I should have realized.


at least the parking at pisser is cheap. mine runs about $700 a year.

Rob Crawford

LUN: The left's Obamacare might cost a man his vision.

Sometimes I think "hanging it around their neck" has the right words, but the wrong order.



Parking is one major revenue source for colleges. Another is telephone services. You have no idea what a simple telephone costs faculty and others on campus.

My advice: walk to campus. Park off-campus.


In general poor populations are sicker than more affluent ones, and even the uninsured are more affluent than medicaide receipants, otherwise they would have Medicare. Also as a generalization, the poor have a different mindset. It is along the lines of shit happens. Actions and results are disconnected. Even when resources are available can you get people to use them.
I work at a hospital in an underserved, read poor, community. The people are good, and smart, but getting them to do things I think are obvious to their self interest, like follow up, is exceedingly difficult. So they show up in the ED.

No science, just my gestalt.


but I chose wisely otherwise:

6 George Mason University

Public (In-State)




couldn't find Pitzer, but did see Claremont ranked pretty high.


>>>My advice: walk to campus. Park off-campus.<<<

part of the eval. but walking is out of the question.

didn't realize that with the phones. they farm out running the parking to a private firm.


So they show up in the ED.

Viagra or Cialis?



The Hill highlights the latest Gallup polling whereby 59% of the uninsured had a negative experience with Obamacare in December. Just wait until the employer mandate kicks in and creates a huge cohort of chronically pissed off. I see Hillary deciding that a run in 16 would be bad for her "health".


they charge us for scantrons and blue books too.


Ah scantrons, surprising they haven't come up with something more advanced in twenty years,


didn't realize that with the phones.

This may vary from campus to campus. My experience is that this is a separate profit center, and they seek to maximize the profit from a captive audience with no alternatives (before cell phones at least).

One other area is space. The last time i was in academia I had five offices, partially to keep them reserved for others who needed the indirects.



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