Boo, Wall Street. Yay, Uhh, Evil Corporations....?!?

The NY Times knows that hedge funds are bad and their top dogs are worse, so they have no trouble drawing the battle lines in their front page story on hedge fund hero Bill Ackman versus Herbalife. However, I am utterly mystified as to how they sorted out good and evil. Their gist, as best I can determine:

After Big Bet, Hedge Fund Pulls the Levers of Power

Staking $1 Billion That Herbalife Will Fail, Then Lobbying to Bring It Down

Putting their money where their mouth is - sounds ominous!

...

The letter [from Congresswoman Sanchez to the FTC] was a small hint of Mr. Ackman’s extraordinary attempt to leverage the corridors of power — in Washington, state capitols and city halls — for his hedge fund’s profit after taking a $1 billion financial position called a short, a bet that will pay off only if Herbalife’s stock drops.

Corporate money is forever finding new ways to influence government. But Mr. Ackman’s campaign to take this fight “to the end of the earth,” using every weapon in the arsenal that Washington offers in an attempt to bring ruin to one company, is a novel one, fusing the financial markets with the political system.

Others have criticized the business practices of Herbalife, a company that sells vitamins and other health supplements through independent distributors, many of whom are lower-income Latinos or African-Americans. But Mr. Ackman’s attack is unprecedented in its scale, and Herbalife officials strongly deny his accusations that the company is a pyramid scheme that stays afloat by constantly recruiting new distributors.

Novel! Extraordinary! Unprecedented! So Mr. Ackman's behavior is nothing at all like, for example, the millions spent invested by multiple law firms rounding up plaintiffs and lobbyists for their incredibly lucrative war against Big Tobacco. Ahh, well, that was different, because tobacco is bad. But if Mr. Ackman's allegations are correct - IF they are correct - then Herbalife is also bad and shutting them down would also be in the public interest. Does the Times even examine that possibility? Not in this story.

And why are Team Herbalife cast as hapless victims of a Wall Street billionaire? BusinessWeek looked at Herbalife a year ago and noted this about CEO Michael Johnson:

His total compensation in 2012 was valued at about $10.3 million. In 2011 he exercised a batch of stock options and earned almost $25 million.

He took home another $44 million in 2013, so that adds up to a mere $79 million in the last three years. He presumably owed some taxes, so this hardly makes him a billionaire. But he is surely an Evil One Percenter who may or may not be making his fortune by exploiting blacks and Hispanics. Why the Times leaves this unexplored is a mystery.

Also a mystery - a dueling news service, Reuters, ran this just yesterday:

Ackman outspent by Herbalife in lobbying battle

By Svea Herbst-Bayliss BOSTON Sun Mar 9, 2014

(Reuters) - Hedge fund manager William Ackman, who is betting $1.16 billion that Herbalife is a fraud, spent $264,000 last year on lobbyists to press his case against the company, according to government documents filed in recent weeks.

That amount is dwarfed by the nearly $2 million Herbalife spent in 2013 on federal lobbying as the nutrition and weight loss company fought the billionaire investor's claims it runs a pyramid scheme. In an illegal pyramid scheme members earn more for recruiting new members into the scheme than for selling the products outside the network.

To recap, a possibly evil company run by a rich guy spends million on lobbyists defending itself from a crusader in the public interest who just happens to be a billionaire hoping to make hundreds of millions for his investors if his crusade pans out. (Ackman has announced that he will donate his personal profits on this to charity, but of course a buttressed reputation and happy investors won't be priced in to that contribution).

So how does one pick a side? And how does one keep a straight face while pretending that running to Washington for help in a business scuffle is novel?

To their credit, the Times does not hide that most of the lobbyists hired by Ackman fall on the Democratic side of the aisle, since that is where the administrative power currently lies.

Baffling.

LET'S NOTE: The Times was not providing for comments on this story (but now they are). However, their Deal Book flags the story and the first reader comment is so Pavlovian I almost wonder if it is authentic (No, I don't):

It's one thing to defend a vulnerable social group from exploitation, but using that vulnerability as a pretext to exploit the same group for one's gain is unconscionable. William Ackman is a sleazy operator, able to pull strings because he has the financial resources to do what an average citizen couldn't. I would call for an investigation into his questionable relationship with Representative Sanchez and others who did Ackman's bidding. If he was throwing money around to influence his agenda, some of it may have wound up in an elected official's hands. I hope that Herbalife's stock soars through the roof.

Yay, millionaires! Boo, billionaires.

FULL DISCLOSURE: Some hedge fund billionaires are backing Ackman and some are investing in Herbalife; I am neither a long, a short, nor a billionaire.

 

Comments

[Threadkiller]

If only they marketed a chill pill.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Is TomM long or short on Herbalife stock?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

PS: thank you TomM for the comment clean up yesterday.

[narciso]

Yes unlike Steyer of Farallon Capital, or Gilliam of Newmont, which has been blocking the Pebblemine up in Alaska, or that kindly ole Dr. Soros. of the Quantum Grp, all 'honorable men'

[Ignatz]

--It's one thing to defend a vulnerable social group from exploitation, but using that vulnerability as a pretext to exploit the same group for one's gain is unconscionable.--

Isn't that the lefty mindset in a nutshell?
If it was just some lefty law firm stopping the exploitation of poor blacks and hispanics by Herbalife, and making millions in the process by bleeding them dry in court it's be great. They thought it was great Patton Boggs was "fixing" Chevron's little red wagon for the poor of Ecuador or Bolivia or wherever.
But if you do it via the market and stock price it's somehow evil Kahpeetall exploitation of those same people.

Of course the other thing that never enters a lefty's brain is, if the government didn't have so much power over our lives there wouldn't be anything for people to lobby or buy influence over.

[narciso]

So a New York Post piece from last September, names the firms on Herbalife's behalf, the Podesta Grp, the Raben grp, (by another former justice department official) and Ogilvy and Mather.

[narciso]

then there's the Iowa Republican, from last January which shows the solicitousness of Harkin for said firm, Godzilla vs, Mothra,
take a side.

[daddy]

RSE just linked to this Roger Kimball post on the last thread: So, Obama once again “delays” the law of the land on Obamacare.

How about we urge Boehner to make the House vote up or down on a bill mandating that the President abide by the rules of OFA as written and institute the timelined rulings as required by the written Law for full implementation of ObamaCare?

Then send it to the Senate.

As I recall, one of Alinsky's rules was to destroy his political opponents by making them abide by their own rules.

[Miss Marple]

Has anyone here ever received a notice from the State Department which wants to take a survey of family travel habits?

I am not really thrilled about receiving this. I can go on-line (not a chance) or call them. OR they will contact me if they don't get an answer.

[jimmyk]

What about all the lobbying and string-pulling to *favor* companies that people have a positive stake in? Like all the "green" businesses that Obama is doling out favors to. Somehow that never seems as evil as when a hedge fund guy is just exposing a company for what it is.

I will say that getting a politician involved seems less than honorable, though.

[MaryD]

Miss Marple, that is totally creepy. My reaction is to tell them to go pound sand.

[daddy]

But he is surely an Evil One Percenter who may or may not be making his fortune by exploiting blacks and Hispanics.

Psssst, Watch out TM,

Your postings at this blog at times get so terrific that the pennies you make off ad hits might elevate you into the ranks of the dreaded 1 percent evil-doers, so I'm urging you to squelch your natural brilliance and savvy wit every once in a while and instead post some drivel on your stinky loser Yankee's.

a friend.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Daddy-- I was on a Tiger Cruise on the FFG from Pearl to SD when the Stark was shot, it was pretty solemn in the Ward Room the day the news hit. The result was officers telling stories of their bridge watch experiences while they were floating around the Gulf for 3+ months during the tanker wars. It was shocking to hear the provacations Iranian/Iraqi pilots would engage in 86-87, and the carnage to commercial shiping. The tight Gulf ROE meant the Stark was inevitable, but the CO took the professional hit for the loss of the ship... and what 27 men(?). The USN is a harsh mistress.

[donald]

Off topic, but Michael Behenna, the nephew of my late buddy Rick has been paroled by the Army (Or whoever) and will be released from Leavanworth on Friday!

I've mentioned this here before, long story short, he shot an Afghani terrorist who had murdered two of his men after being ordered to release him. I'll admit the circumstances were murky due to insane rules of engagement, but basically he shoulda got a ticker tape parade. Instead, he'll still be a convicted felon. One that I betcha will have no problem moving on to a successful life.

Friday, will be a truly and greatly blessed day!

http://allenbwest.com/2014/02/michael-behenna-wins-parole/

[jimmyk on iPhone]

And a happy birthday to Jim Rhoads, congrats to Marlene, and glad to hear MT is recovering well.

Re my last point above, I think there was a famous moment in 2007-8 when a big investor (Eisner?) spoke at a conference about the subprime house of cards. No need to sic the Feds on anyone, just air the dirty laundry.

[sbwaters]

Miss Marple, if required, reply that the government already knows your family travel habits because they track passport usage.

[Threadkiller]

Daddy, one thing that I have heard consistently from the news is the airliner "disappeared from radar."

How often does radar update the location of an aircraft? Doesn't it also determine the altitude of an object?

[Old Lurker test]

"Pound Sand" is too polite for me.

[MaryD]

HB Jim Rhodes, great news MT! Congrats Marlene; when are you coming home? We are warming up a nice blizzard for you. :-)

[jimmyk on iPhone]

Eisner @10:40 should be Eisman.

[MaryD]

Good 'un, OL! Understatement is a wonderful thing.

[sbwaters]

TK, I'm sure daddy will respond, or ManTran, but air traffic does not depend on radar reflection, which can be weak. Airplanes carry transponders that return additional information about the aircraft including aircraft ID number, altitude and airspeed.

A transponder is required for Instrument flying and flying above a specific altitude. Visual Flight Rules does not require a transponder, but sensible pilots use one and check in with air traffic control.

Losing the radar signal can mean that someone turned off the transponder, that something catastrophic happened, or that the aircraft went below the line of sight or range of the radar transmitter.

[sbwaters]

Happy birthday, Jim R. . . . and any I might have missed while doing real work. :-)

[Miss Marple]

I called my good old conservative Congressman about that passport study and they are assigning it to a case worker from the DC office.

[daddy]

--It's one thing to defend a vulnerable social group from exploitation

Thought this unknown and unexpected bit from my recent read (When America First Met China: An Exotic History of Tea, Drugs, and Money in the Age of Sail) concerning US ships importing Chinese "Coolies" (Ku Li --'rented muscles') to Latin America and Cuba in the 1850's, was fascinating:

The most daming commentaries were provided by publications that pointed out that most of the coolie ships were not owned by firms operating in the slave-holding states of the South, but rather by merchants who lived in the North, where anti-slavery sentiments burned hot. Were these merchants hypocrites, or worse, Southern sympathizers, that they could participate in this "new slave trade", as the abolitionist LIberator (newspaper) called it.

On Feb 19, 1862, Congress finally passed and President Abraham Lincoln signed, "An Act to prohibit the "Coolie Trade" by American Citizens in American Vessels", thereby making the United States the first Western nation to prohibit the trade. The broader coolie trade to Latin America continued until the 1870's, when the Chinese government, in conjunction with key Western nations, most notably Portugal and Spain, finally took effective steps to end it.

Apparently as a consequence of the Slave trade being outlawed, the sugar plantations in Cuba and latin America needed manpower, so the New England Clipper Ship fleets, now unable to make money transporting 49'ers to the diminishing gold fields of California, were ordered by their bosses to now reconfigure themselves to pick up Chinese Coolies and haul them to Cuba and Latin America.

The stuff I don't know...

[Bori]

Happy Birthday Jim R may it be a glorious day!

Great news MT!

Wonderful Marlene, I have years to wait before my princess takes that step but it must be wonderful!

[Ignatz]

Michael Behenna's Wikipedia page.
Sounds pretty bad, if understandable.
The prosecution's suppression of forensic evidence and 3-2 appellate loss by Behenna is pretty troubling.
Murky is a good word, Donald.
That the guy needed killing seems not in doubt.

[daddy]

Donald,

Thank you for that link about Behenna getting Parole.

[when will scales fall off Apostle Paul?]

Rand says Reagan would never tickle the tail of the dragon.

Veiled critique of the Neocons by libertarian poseur.

http://defense-update.com/20140309_russia-welcomes-us-destroyer-truxtun-moving-bastion-anti-ship-missiles-crimea.html

"Unconfirmed news reports claim the Russian Navy is deploying land-based ‘Bastion’ anti-ship missile systems as a response to the recent U.S. move entering two naval vessels to the Black Sea. The two American Arleigh Burke class destroyer USS Truxtun (DDG-103) crossed the Bosphorus Strait Friday, headed into the Black Sea, as tensions simmer over Ukraine’s Crimea region. The Russians also moved two naval combatants from the Mediterranean Task Force back to the Black Sea Fleet. Tension is mounting in the Crimea Peninsula with the preparations for a referendum on independence from Ukraine later this week."

[James D.]

I can actually be on topic for once, because I have a Herbalife experience.

Back in grad school, when I was looking for part-time work, I answered an ad for a part-time sales position, which turned out to be a Herbalife recruitment meeting.

It was fairly creepy and cultish, with a heavy push to get all of us attendees to sign up on the spot, which involved making a down payment and agreeing to go to their HQ in (I think, but could be misremembering) Chicago for training, ASAP.

I also remember very specifically the recruitment video they showed us. It featured a celebrity endorsement by Kenny Loggins, complete with the song "Danger Zone" from "Top Gun" playing to introduce him.

Needless to say, I ran out of there the moment I could, and didn't look back. So count me in with the "it's a crooked pyramid scheme" camp.

[Threadkiller]

Thanks, sbw.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/travel-news/plane-in-midair-crash-with-skydiver-in-tampa-florida/story-fnjjv9zn-1226849766686

The camera was at the right spot, unlike the plane...

[Man Tran on iPhone]

SBW,

You are correctomundo on the transponder. However, as daddy can probably confirm from his traveling along that route, the radar signal may have been too weak to trigger the ping from the transponder. He may also have a better idea how primitive the national air systems are in that region. (Do they record their radar for replay, etc.)

Thanks everyone for the kind wishes on the Mk I eyeball. Should be flying again shortly.

TK, the R&D thingy is a specialty instrument for practitioners of the obscure art of contact mechanics. If DrJ was into third body modification of creep forces between to steel objects instead of proteins, he'd be saving grant money for one of these.

The easy way of thinking about it for a car guy is the tire tester that is used on a racetrack to measure the friction limit for that particular running surface. (And the bleach box introduces a third body factor.)

[narciso]

Herbalife, might be marketing placebos, but what of hedge funds, specially the ones in the derivative market, just another game of fizbin,

[narciso]

So which was the most proximate radar to MH-370. that would indicate altitude as well as speed.

[Threadkiller]

PTFE comes to mind, MT.

Remember Slick50?

[Threadkiller]

Here is a pretty good write-up on Slick50:

http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

Zinc is also mentioned.

When breaking in a new camshaft, don't forget the zinc! I understand the contact mechanics of that firsthand.

:-)

[Danube on iPad]

Headed for Los Barriles, down on the Sea of Cortez south of La Paz, in a couple of hours. Wahoo.

[Threadkiller]

Am I using the term correctly, MT, or am I f'n it up as usual?

[The eyes have it.]

How many cameras were operating at the Pentagon.

One---and it wasn't a plane that swooshed by.

[Man Tran on iPhone]

TK,
Hah! I made the mistake of getting sucked into a lube product yrs ago that actually did what Slick 50 claimed. The problem was trying to do legit business in a pool of sharks like that. The aftermath was a much lighter checkbook, but a lifetime supply of magic stuff only given to friends. Iggy might give a testimonial on how smooth his gun slides are operating.

[Threadkiller]

Have a safe trip, DoT. Let me know if you need bailing out.

BTW, can you sneak us into the christening?

http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/lcs4/Pages/default.aspx

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

What is the order? "Bring the ship to life."

[Threadkiller]

A better link?

http://www.coronadocommissioning.net/

[Threadkiller]

Bullet Slick?

[centralcal]

Have fun, DoT!

[Man Tran on iPhone]

TK,

Yes, breaking in a cam is exactly the same game. The zinc is acting as an EP lube until the high points of contact can deform/wear into a level that doesn't exceed their Hertzian limits. If the micro level of failure is not controlled, galling and tearing will damage much larger regions of the running surface.

Rolling contact of steel wheels on rails has all those same problems generally without benefit of the third body material. That is what the RR industry is trying to improve.

[Jim Eagle]

Happy Birthday Jim Rhoads.

Still no word about the maintenance facility ping reports from the plane. Very odd.

If the P3 can't find wreakage then there isn't any. It is equipped with "magnetic anomaly detectors" which can pinpoint large items of metal, flys low altitute with engine loitering for hours on end. I think their also flying MH-60H Sea Hawks with FLIR off of the Pinckney.

[Threadkiller]

Hertzian?

I assume it has to do with frequency.

Will sombody please send MT a cigar for providing me a topic other than my usual?

[Danube on iPad]

"BTW, can you sneak us into the christening?"

Probably, if necessary. A very dear friend is the ship's sponsor. I believe it will be open to the public.

The ship will be standing in to S.D. Bay in about an hour.

Adios.

[Jane]

Happy B-day Jim - and good news Donald. I remember that case and it was deplorable. (Unless there have been many and they are all deplorable.)

Have fun Dot. You are going somewhere I've never heard of. I really need to get out more.

[Sarah]

Thanks for your help Dr Seuss. We raised over a million shekels and have ALREADY made a contribution of 5000 dollars to our first candidate choice.

I do not like this, Uncle Sam.
I do not like this healthcare scam.
I do not like these dirty crooks
Or how they lie and cook the books
I do not like when Congress steals
I do not like their crony deals
I do not like 'oh yes, we can'
I do not like this spending spree
We're smart, we know nothing's free
I do not like reporters' smug replies
When I complain about their lies
I do not like this kind of hope
And we won't take it
Nope, nope, nope!

[Thomas Collins]

Happy Birthday, JR!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9xJxT3fjSk

[Ignatz]

-- Iggy might give a testimonial on how smooth his gun slides are operating. --

Not to mention three or four huge, frozen crescent wrenches and my 3/4 drive ratchet I had forgotten in a regrettable spot.
I could make a joke about how happy Mrs MT must be with such a lubrication czar for a hubby, but I won't. :)

[Threadkiller]

Nice threadkilling, Ig.

;-)

[marlene on Kindle]

Happy Birthday Jim! Mary,we're here until the 22nd,so darn,we'll miss the blizzard.

[Miss Marple]

Steyn is on for Rush, if anyone is interested.

[rse]

New post up http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/adding-comrade-education-and-psychological-predation-to-our-descriptions-of-envisioned-cybernetic-learning/

I thought the phrase mind arson needed some company given the outrageous intentions we are dealing with.

Time to work in the yard. I bet I am not the only one looking at what companies want to do fairly simple yard work these days who just decides they need the exercise anyway. Not all increased employer costs can be passed on. Some make customers disappear.

[sbwaters]

The zinc is acting as an EP lube until the high points of contact can deform/wear into a level that doesn't exceed their Hertzian limits.

This is why I love this place!

[daddy]

...the airliner "disappeared from radar."

How often does radar update the location of an aircraft? Doesn't it also determine the altitude of an object?

TK,

All good questions which I can't answer precisely and to get those answers we'd need to have someone familiar with both Malaysia's Radar ATC capabilities and Viet Nam's Radar capabilities to know the particulars.

SBW's comments above are correct. I'm a few beers to the wind tonight but here's some longwinded comments which might apply.

In the Battle of Britain, newly invented incipient radar allowed the Brits to know something metallic was coming thru the air, and to guestimate the following from the radar return: position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed. (Dot's father's input on Naval radar in that great book "Neptunes Inferno" also shows how invaluable it was if it had been used correctly by our Naval forces onboard the Atlanta). Sadly, it wasn't.)

As I understand it, those 3 ingredients (position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed) still are the prime things you can get from a raw radar return from a plane you are looking at that is not sending out any transmissions at all.

Now with Transponders installed in individual airplanes, once they assign a specific 4 number 'squawk' to a particular airplane and it is entered into the airplane's onboard transponder, in addition to that still basic radar return info the radar guy is getting, now much more precise info is transmitted from the airplane to ATC's radars, letting them know very precise airspeed, headings, and altitudes (within a hundred feet), plus your Flight Number. And when asked by ATC to "Ident" you hit a button and it sends out for a short time a ping, making you illuminate in some manner on ATC's radar screens, and that is how they can precisely identify you from anyone else out there.

Now in Malaysia, unlike many parts of the world, (since they are often a non-radar environment for example in the Penang region where we launch from) upon initial switch to Lumpur Control radio, which is a Radar environment, they immediately ask us to verify our 4 digit transponder code and to confirm what altitude we are currently passing. That allows them to look at their scopes and verify they are looking at us and that they are getting proper info from us, after which they say "Radar Contact", and thus the mandatory old voice reports from years back that you had to do telling where you were and what your altitude was and when you would hit your next point are all obviated and you can now simply read your book without being hassled.

When you swap from Malaysia Control to Ho Chi Minh Control (as a consequence of leaving Malaysian Airspace and entering Vietnamese Airspace) you are now given a new Vietnamese VHF frequency for voice comm on VHF Radio. You are just at the limit of his broadcast range so you need to speak loudly and distinctly, and often you have to repeat your call multiple times after a few minutes if no-one answers. The Ho chi Minh guy, when you do contact him on radio, looks at his scope and sees that old time radar blip of an object having position, bearing, and some speed, and he asks you to confirm your squawk and your altitude." Once you do that, and it pops up on his radar screen, he tells you "you are in Radar Contact" and likewise voice reports are not required, but he''ll ask you to call the next sector on a different frequency since they don't have the finest sector transition system in the world, and you set your timer in the cockpit and when it goes off you put down your book and make a call to the new frequency and do the drill all over again. (And he may have asked you to ident as well but he does not need to if the numbers he's looking at match what you told him and you're the only guy out there at the moment). So that how the transponder system works.

How often that info appears on his screen I can't say, but I suspect with a standard capability it sends out a signal whenever interrogated and probably on some reasonable timescale as it crawls across his radar sector heading to the next guys sector for a handoff.

What I think I'm hearing from these Malaysian Flight 370 reports is that the Transponder info stopped ASAP. That can happen if you turn it to off or standby---or blow up. We used to turn it off in military planes at times for various reasons I won't go in to, but in Commercial aviation you never turn it off unless you have landed and the field wants you to go to a standby mode for taxiing, such as Bangalore.

Anyhow, as I understand it, the Vietnamese had Malay Flight 370 on the old blip of position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed. We need to know if they ever got a decent Transponder reading from Flight 370 since as I understand it, it was early in the entry to Vietnam Airspace when Comm and radar data was lost.

The Investigators do know from Malaysian ATC if the Transponder system was working and I suspect it was, otherwise it would have caused a stink among Malaysian ATC and I think we would have heard about it by now. As for what the Vietnamese were getting, I still do not know if they ever got transponder info. I suspect they did initially as I believe they confirmed altitude "Flight level 350", which they would not get from the simple old fashioned radar blip, but they then lost it at the time they lost everything else.

If it was turned off it would stop giving out precise radar info such as speed, heading altitude. That could be intentionally or inadvertently done in the cockpit, but unlikely, because If the plane was still intact and the transponder simply failed or was turned off, that old info of position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed, would still be available if somebody was looking at it on the radar scope. That it seemingly vanished all together would indicate that the transponder failed and that the plane itself was blown apart enough that it no longer gave a decent radar return. It is also worth mentioning that in the time it takes to punch 4 typewriter keys (2-3 seconds?) I can enter into the Transponder a code that will continue to broadcast that I have an Emergency until power from the transponder unit ceases.

But if the plane had a catastrophic failure, which seems likely, then it makes sense that the bored Vietnamese Controller at 2 AM swiveling in his chair and smoking a knock off Winston, lost them on Transponder radar, and on the old fashioned blip return.

That's where we'd have to know the frequency of the transponder sending out info and the Vietnamase's capability of receiving that info, and also the frequency of the old time radar's scan. FWIW, in Navt Alameda in the office I would have on the old AM Radio listening to Talk Radio or Magic 61, and about every 20 seconds or so you'd hear a "Blip" on the radio telling you the radar from whatever boat was in port was irradiating you and ever living thing on base about every 20 seconds. That 20 seconds, or whatever number of seconds it was, was the frequency in Alameda for the old time Boat radar interrogating for position, bearing, and a decent guess at speed, just like back in the Battle of Britain.

Sorry for the way long post, and I'm sure I have parts of it not precisely correct. Hope it answered the questions, TK. There are others here who know this stuff better than I do.

[Captain Hate]

HB Jim Rhodes

For as many times as I may agree with Rand Paul on specific issues, we know he can't escape the crazy genetic link.

[narciso]

Happy birthday, jim rhoades, it seems the one who bought the tickets is an Iranian national
living in Thailand.

[Jane]

And he paid cash Narc.

[rich@gmu]

happy birthday jim rhoades.

congrats to marlene and family.

good to hear you are healing Man Tran.

lots of news today.

[Miss Marple]

I found this in the Sydney Morning Herald. The pilot was 53 and had been with the airline for almost 30 years. The co-pilot was 27 and had been with them since 2006. Please read to the end of the excerpt:

Mumbling and static were heard from the cockpit of missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370 before connection was lost, according to a pilot who was flying another plane in the area.

“There was a lot of interference … static … but I heard mumbling from the other end,” said the pilot who was asked to make contact with flight 370 by Vietnamese air traffic control.

“That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost connection,” he said.

The pilot, who asked not to be named, told Malaysia’s New Sunday Times newspaper said he established contact with flight 370 as he was flying a Boeing 777 to Narita, Japan.

His plane was 30 minutes ahead of the missing plane.

The pilot said he thought nothing of losing contact, as it was not an unusual, until it was confirmed that flight 370 never landed.

“If the plane was in trouble, we would have heard the pilot making the mayday distress call. But I am sure that, like me, no one else up there heard it,” he said.

“Following the silence, a repeat request was made by the Vietnamese authorities to retry establishing contact with them.”

The pilot said the voice he heard may have been either Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, or co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27.

“But I am sure it was the co-pilot,” he said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-search-continues-as-stolen-passports-raise-terrorism-fears-20140309-hvgqm.html#ixzz2va6RnsLG

Questions: Could there have been an oxygen depletion causing the mumbling? That, of course, would not explain the transponder being shut off.

Secondly, are they investigating the background of the co-pilot? Could he have been an al Qaeda plant who took over the plane? If so, did he crash it or take it somewhere?

[Ignatz]

--it seems the one who bought the tickets is an Iranian national--

A Shout out to Barry for easing those sanctions.
Time for reset or another red line?

[matt]

cronies versus phonies?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Daddy-- thanks for the exhaustive insight. So the Transponder squawk was either deliberately turned off on the flight deck (hijack?), or a catastrophic failure occured abruptly stopping the squawk. No distress radio call heard. Iranian national living in Thailand uses stolen passport to buy ticket? a lot going on here.

[maryrose]

Happy Birthday Jim Rhoads! I hope you enjoy a great day!
I loved sarah's speech at C-PAC. I also caught some of Rick Perry's.
Just looked at the polls at realclearpolitics and all is well. Any predictions on the Jolly/Sink race?

[DrJ]

Happy Birthday, JimR!

All this Malaysian airliner stuff is interesting and a bit unnerving. I'm sitting in a plane at the moment, headed to DC.

I know that chances of anything happening are very remote. I keep repeating that.

[JoJo]

would a plane hijacked to a different course suddenly disappear off radar?

[Stephanie VIP shhhhh its fight club]

HB Jim!

[glasater]

Carl Icahn nor the other traders on CNBC's "Fast Money" can fathom why Ackman is making this kind of bet against Herbalife. After all this company is providing a real product(s) in exchange for money.

Unlike this company - ZeekRewards which a few of my good friends got themselves mixed up with and lost some money investing in a total Ponzi scheme.

[matt]

HB, Jim!

It is all speculation until we know. Better to wait on the experts.

Terrorists usually claim their victims and proclaim their allegiance very loudly after an incident.

[pagar]

HB, Jim!

[Stephanie VIP shhhhh its fight club]

Congrats Marlene!

[rich@gmu]

on the thread topic sort of...

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/grassley-questions-education-agencys-ties-to-wall-street/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Department of Education employees possibly tipping off a hedge fund cashing in on the for profit ed sector.

can't find a good link but Department of Energy employees tipping of the timing a SPR release

and can't find another link about hhs employees tipping off hedge funds on cms data.

(these are the 3 i can recall there is a fouth a standard insider case at the FDA that was prosecuted)

interesting government employees can be in an "expert network" and not get rounded up in an insider trading scheme like SAC.

[rich@gmu]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hundreds-in-government-had-advance-word-of-medicare-action-at-heart-of-trading-spike-probe/2013/06/09/044944d0-cec7-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_print.html

here is the hhs info from the wapo

[rich@gmu]

>>>Terrorists usually claim their victims and proclaim their allegiance very loudly after an incident.<<<

not necessairly. a commercial aircraft which was bombed out of panama in the early 90's comes to mind.

[maryrose]

Congratulations Marlene! How exciting for your family!
My fear is that the terrorists took over-then the mumbling occured that that other pilot on a different plane heard, and then it was deliberately crashed.

[daddy]

would a plane hijacked to a different course suddenly disappear off radar?

Not unless it went out of range of the interrogating radar.

If it was within range of the interrogating radar and still intact and at significant altitude, No, it would not disappear.

It would continue to provide a return to an interrogating radar scope as a blip, depicting position, and if enough radar sweeps occurred and returns were received it would provide basic heading, and speed info, just like back in the Battle of Britain days.

[rich@gmu]

is this thing being flakey for anyone else?

happy and safe travels to Dot and to DrJ.

[JoJo]

tidbits from the Daily Mail coverage: "...Malaysia's air force chief said radar tracking showed it may have turned back from its scheduled route before it disappeared.
more....The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a U.S. government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough."

[Miss Marple]

I am sorry to say, JoJo, that the US government source is suspect.

I no longer believe anything coming from the government, including time and temperature.

[sbwaters]

And "and" and "the".

[henry]

Look who's running things for the WI Dems. Not a big surprise: the current Senate Minority Leader is a convicted shoplifter; one Assembly gal from Milwaukee commutes to the Capitol on a suspended license (and gets mileage reimbursements); and the party communications guy has multiple DUI's. This does not include the tire slashing friend of Stradivarius thieves (Gwen Moore's son) and a host of other miscreants.

[Miss Marple]

Sheryl Attkisson has resigned from CBS. She just tweeted it.

[jimmyk]

Just posted that on the new thread, Miss M. Politico reports that it was over her frustrations with CBS's bias.

[Miss Marple]

Sharyl Attkisson.

WHY do parents (especially people with hard-to-spell last names) burden their children with creatively spelled first names?

[Miss Marple]

Thnks, jimmyk. I didn't know there was a new thread. LOL!

[Bori]

"The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a U.S. government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough."

If the coverage is so thorough, why haven't they found the plane?

I realize that an explosion would be far more likely to be picked-up by its heat-signature, but those satellites see things far smaller.

Of course, I don't think they want to advertise what sort of capabilities they have in the area.

[Captain Hate]

Congrats Marlene.

[GregQ]

Sorry, Tom, but Ackman deserves every bit of grief he's been getting. What he's doing is the moral equivalent of buying an insurance policy on your home, and then encouraging the local pyros to burn it down.

If Herbalife is doing something illegal (I have no idea, because I have absolutely no contact with the company or its products), that's a matter for the police, not lobbying politicians to change the rules to destroy the company.

I hope the stock price doubles, and I hope Ackman, and his hedge fund, go bankrupt.

[Tom Maguire]

Why couldn't it be the moral equivalent of buying a house next door to a meth house and calling the cops every day to demand they raid the place?

If they do, the baddies are busted, the neighborhood is cleaned up and the value of the house rises. Is that so awful? It is not as if the police, or the SEC, are all-knowing and prioritize their investigations perfectly.

My impression is that Ackman is lobbying to trigger an investigation, not "to change the rules to destroy the company". That sort of rule-changing is the purview of Big Telecom, Big Finance, Big Defense, and all the others businesses which, completely unbeknownst to the Times, lobby all the time.

This statement by famous short-seller James Chanos is interesting. He asserts this:

"Many of the major corporate frauds and bankruptcies of the past quarter century were first exposed by short sellers doing fundamental research: Enron, Tyco, Sunbeam, Boston Chicken, Baldwin United, MicroStrategies, Conseco, ZZZZBest and Crazy Eddie are but a few examples of this phenomenon."

Chanos was an early short against Enron and came to fame busting Baldwin-United back in the day. So, is he also evil? Or is flushing out frauds OK unless you are billionaire?

[Greg Q]

"Why couldn't it be the moral equivalent of buying a house next door to a meth house and calling the cops every day to demand they raid the place?"

Because he's not calling the cops, he's calling politicians.

Really, do you think that a politicians who's paid off to "hold a hearing", and does, is going to hold an honest one?

Sorry, but no sale. I'm not ever going to believe in the honesty or decency of someone who does what Ackman did. You want to short sell a company? Fine.

You want to pay off politicians to trash a company after you've sold it short? You're scum of the earth.