The Malaysia Airlines Crash

Here's a troubling detail from the news of the Malaysia Airlines crash:

BEIJING — Malaysian officials investigating the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines plane Saturday said they were not ruling out terrorism — or any other causes — as reports emerged that two Europeans listed on the passenger manifest were not aboard and may have had their passports stolen.

...

According to the airline, other passengers on the flight included 38 Malaysians, five Indians, seven Indonesians, six Australians, four French, two Ukranians, two Canadians and two New Zealanders. There were also a Russian, an Italian, a Dutch and an Austrian aboard, the airline said.

However, shortly after the list was published on the airline’s website, Italy’s ANSA news agency reported that Luigi Maraldi, 37, who was listed on the manifest, was in fact not on the plane (link in Italian). The agency said he had phoned his family to say he was alive and well in Thailand.

Austria’s APA news agency made a similar report about an Austrian citizen listed on the passenger manifest, Christian Kozel, 30 (link in German). APA reported his passport was stolen about two years ago in Thailand.

So apparently two passengers were travelinng with stolen passports, which is unsettling. However, what is missing is a baseline. The use of these stolen passports was discovered because the passenger list is under a microscope and receiving worldwide attention. It may well be that all sorts of underworld types travel all over Asia and the world every day on stolen passports with no one the wiser and no planes going down. Put another way, had this plane simply landed safely would anyone have noticed that a passport stolen two years ago had been used by one of the passengers?

 

The stolen passports absolutely might have been used by terrorists; planes don't crash every day, so suspecting terrorism is not unreasonable. But I don't think that based on this coverage we have nearly enough information to judge how common the use of stolen passports in international travel might actually be.

LATE UPDATE: The Times digs in and learns this:

Use of Stolen Passports on Missing Malaysian Airliner Highlights Air Security Flaw

...

Interpol created a database of stolen and lost passports in 2002 that has grown to more than 40 million documents available for governments to screen for terrorists, smugglers or swindlers who travel the world illicitly. But according to the international law enforcement agency, only three countries — the United States, Britain and the United Arab Emirates — systematically screen travelers against the agency’s database of stolen passports.

The two men with stolen passports who boarded the missing Malaysia Airlines flight from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to Beijing over the weekend did not have their passports screened. And last year, Interpol said, passengers around the world were able to board planes more than a billion times without having their passports checked against the database.

...

One of the many vexing mysteries of the plane’s disappearance was the hunt for the true identity of the two passengers who used passports stolen from European tourists in Thailand in the past two years. A senior American law enforcement official said Sunday that Thai officials were investigating a so-called passport ring operating on the resort island of Phuket, where both passports were stolen and where, he noted, false documents were routinely used by drug smugglers.

So apparently stolen passports are routinely used by criminals, not just terrorists.

Comments

[centralcal]

Miss Marple, you are one of my favorite newish commenters (and I follow you faithfully on Twitter, too).

I don't mean to be snarky to you, but I guess I am just in a mood these days. I am so tired of hearing over and over again the same old b.s. that we CAN'T do anything right (pun intended) on our side, unless we are more like or appeal to the side that is either pure evil or just "cultural" morons.

-----

Yes Jane! She says it and is vilified for it by all sides - left, middle, right, above and below. She SAYS IT, without fear!

God BLESS her! Seriously. I mean that.

[Threadkiller]

McCain as picked because he had a birth defect, just like Obama.

[Threadkiller]

As=was

[centralcal]

I am blowing kisses to you over the internet, Mr. Ratziwatzky or, however it is spelled.

[narciso]

I know Ronaldus Magnus was sui generis, but I recall Rush playing segments of the Detroit convention in 1980, he gave the Democrats no quarter, with a wry smile and a quick wit, he laid out the case against Carter, in terms even the future LIV's would understand.

[Threadkiller]

 but during the Carter re-election campaign of 1980, Jewish voters greatly abandoned the Democrat, with only 45% support, while Republican winner, Ronald Reagan, garnered 39%, and 14% went to independent John Anderson.

Move along, move along! Nothing to be learned here!

[centralcal]

Which one would have been your pick in 2008? 2012?

DoT, my most favorite, I honestly cannot even remember who was in the running in 2008. I was beyond verklempt when McCain was anointed the chosen one, that much I DO remember.

2012 was even worse. I was a Palin afficianado, but she didn't enter the race. So, early on, I was really a Rick Perry fan. And, yes, he flamed out rapidly, spectacularly. I was left with .... well, I was left with Garden Gnome.

I voted for McCain. I voted for Romney. I will vote for whomever is not a fascist, marxist, communist this time too.

[narciso]

Maybe we've gone too far down the 'Brawndo
electrolytes' pathm, but there should be at least one instance, where the differences between the parties are disgusted, don't let the press be the moderators, send them into the pit, like the Persian emissary in 300.

[Danube on iPad]

"I hope I haven't misunderstood the LIV demographic as it has been explained to me here."

How has it been explained, and by whom?

[miss Marple]

Well, I am only discussing what I think about why many people find Palin and Cruz off-putting.

We do not have a gang of cheerleaders on TV to tell us how smart and well-spoken our candidates are, unlike Obama ( who is a really boring speaker/reader). If he had been a Republican we would have had a critique non-stop about his head flipping back and forth while reading the TelePrompTer, how he only has 2 tones, angry or lecturing, and a detailed list of all his pronunciation errors.

Well, we don't have a bunch of media cheerleaders to work with. So what is to be done?

Well, an old Victorian saying was "Deeds not words." A later saying is "talk is cheap."

My suggestion is that we need to emphasize actions which can be demonstrated to have gotten results. Sell these actions to the voters with easy to understand examples.

I have become a bor on several sites including here ranting about how the college loan thing is a scam, and the scammer in chief was out pushing everyone to go to college once again.

College loans and the debt kids are in, coupled with the burden of Obamacare, is robbing an entire generation of their future. They aren't able to afford marriage, or a home, or even a decent car.

We need these kids to understand how they were lied and cheated to, without making them feel like dummies..

[narciso]

And who will be the messenger who will get past the media battalions, past the armies of 'wquirrels' whose voice will be the right inflection, whose paet in his hair will be perfect but casual, yadda yadda.

[Danube on iPad]

"Likeability" ought not be something that influences voters, but it does. Voice and delivery affect likeability. It's sad, but it's certainly true.

[Threadkiller]

"How has it been explained, and by whom?"

NK and Rick Ballard explained it to me.

Go back and check it out.

[Danube on iPad]

Turned it on; ten seconds in heard Vitale's voice. Turned it off.

[21_cathy_f_in_tripep@d_prison_98]

The only reason I posted it is because it came from a priest. A pretty intolerant LIV priest, but a priest none-the-less. Since I'm not catholic I don't have a clue.

Father Peter isn't Catholic, either, he's Greek Orthodox. We had a schism in 1079.

[miss Marple]

Ok, I am done.

No one seems to understand the difference between looking for a "perfect candidtate " and taking our existing candidates and making them more appealing.

So, whatever happens, no one ever would listen to me anyway, as I am just some cranky old gal in the Midwest.

Any more news on the Malaysian plane?

[narciso]

We see how Ibrahim, the opposition leader over there, was convicted of a certain act, in a similar fashion as Timoshenko, the Zarina was silenced for supposed financial improprieties,

[narciso]

We see how every major publication from the Journal to USA Today, insists on the consensual halluciaation that we are in a recovery, that AGW is not merely a fact, but an article of faith,

[DrJ]

Arnie vs. the chicken:

http://doodlemum.com/2014/03/08/cat-versus-chicken/

[Threadkiller]

I am listening, MM.

The question of what would make the existing field more appealing, to me, must start with what makes them less appealing and whether we can live with that or not.

[Jim Eagle]

Now they're implying that all those unmarked combatants in the Crimea are from Blackwater. It is truly a Putin burlesque and Erik Prince is the fan dancer.

[Jane on Ipad]

Cathy,

Shows you how much I know.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Now you're talkin' my language.

Hey, Extraneus! I knew you'd show up for Unicorn Vengeance.

I think bgates got miffed at Miss Marple.

We went & saw "Saving Mr. Banks" this evening. It was very good.

I'm votin' for Ted Cruz in 2016.

[narciso]

I thought it was their version of Blackwater, the V.O., which is probably retired Spetznaz and other GRU operators,
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/obama-surgeon-general-pick-wants-doctors-to-ask-patients-about-guns-in-home-include-info-in-obamacare-database/

[Threadkiller]

For a baseline, here is what I find appealing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldx8gZDwZWs

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Thanks for the Palin link, Ann!

...apologize to Bob Dole...good Lord.

[narciso]

Well we're just winning friends everywhere;

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-08/india-backs-russias-legitimate-interests-ukraine

[Account Deleted]

Narciso,

This makes me think the Indians aren't wearing blinkers:

Delhi is “convinced that the West’s tacit support for a series of attempted coups against democratically elected governments — in Egypt, Thailand and now Ukraine — has only weakened democratic roots in these countries.”

I would have tossed in the complete and absolute failure to manage the aftermath of the Libyan coup and tied it to the Syrian pratfall as well. Who in their right minds would join the EUnuchs and BOzo the Clown in an encore performance of Fools on Parade?

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Palin is a little whisp of a woman. Really tiny.
I was pretty close to her up at the Lincoln Memorial back in October.

[Danube on iPad]

"Go back and check it out."

No.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Americans not allowed at the Lincoln Memorial.

Palin, Cruz, & Mike Lee showed up.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

**wisp**

[boris]

Most recent bgates comment I could find ...

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/200273-obama-golfs-with-alonzo-mourning-ahmad-rashad

"The White House said Obama placed calls to leaders in countries such as Britain, France, Italy, Lithuania, Latvian and Estonia before he hit the links."

[Threadkiller]

"No"

Why dId you bother me then?

[Jane on Ipad]

Someone send BGates an email - if you have his address.

[Miss Marple]

bgates got miffed at me? What did I say?

[Danube on iPad]

"Why dId you bother me then?"

Wasn't aware that I was bothering you.

I was interested to know your understanding of the term LIV, but not sufficiently interested to go back and look.

[Beasts of England]

I think leadership qualities (or the perception thereof) will be the top quality in 2016 as many Americans pray to be led back from the abyss. Here are my very early assessments of that quality.

Leaders: Perry, Walker, Jindal

Mixed: Carson, Christie

Lackers: Bush, Paul

I'd love to hear other opinions and if I'm missing some possible candidates.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

I probably remembered wrong, MM. Don't listen to me....I don't even know how to spell wisp!

[Miss Marple]

Back to the plane - now they are saying that there were FOUR fake passports.

You are going to have to do a whole lot of talking to convince me this wasn't terrorism.

[Miss Marple]

In case any of you were going to watch the new "Cosmos," I feel I should warn you that Obama gives the introduction.

Being as he knows all about science, of course.

[Frau Edith Steingehirn]

polly - a big misunderstanding with my post the other day (yesterday?).
I wrote:

"His voice!!!!!!
/s"

The /s I thought was understood by all/most internet folk as "off sarcasm."

I am absolutely *not* bothered by the Texas twang of Cruz or that upper midwestern accent of Palin. From a Seattle newspaper:

Sarah Palin is not a Minnesotan, but she can sure sound like one.

Turns out, there's a darn good reason for it, too.

The Republican vice-presidential candidate's hometown of Wasilla, Alaska, is in the middle of the valley where more than 200 broke families from the Midwest — many of them from Minnesota — relocated during the Great Depression.

This means Palin grew up listening to the children and grandchildren of those Minnesotans and being fed a steady diet of "yahs" and "ya knows" and even "you betchas."

"When people settle a new area, there's not a set accent," said Joe Salmons, director of the Center for the Study of Upper Midwestern Cultures at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. "And it takes several generations for a new accent to form. What that means is, she was raised in an environment where there were a lot of people who were new to Alaska, and those Upper Midwestern influences were going to be very strong."

From the sound of things, Palin listened well.

Like a true Midwesterner, her O's tend to sound "pure" or long, Salmons said. She also tends to turn "you" into "ya."

Again,
Lake Wobegon accent = wonderful!
Sarah Palin accent = gag-inducing
The aritcle (LUN) noted that Palin drops the "g" from coming or going, which Obama does regularly. The media clean up after him. I wonder why? /s

[Miss Marple]

Don't forget about setting your clocks forward.

[Eric in Boise]

Delurking for a minute just to say : Good job on the permanent February 9th, JOMers. Keep it up.

Boise Zoo was delightful today and very busy as the temp hit 60. The mama anteater was out briefly with her baby riding on her back. Adorable.

Keep calm and carry on.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

via E.W. Jackson on FB -
Don't forget to set your clocks forward one hour tonight! You don't want to be late for Church in the morning.

[Threadkiller]

"I was interested to know your understanding of the term LIV,"

LOL!

I've been drinking but I'm not drunk yet. There is a standing definition of "LIV" on the pages of JOM, but you are not interested enough to research it?

I assumed you wanted to catch me in a misquote of that definition and drag Donofrio and Arpaio into the mix.

I could be wrong.

[Beasts of England]

Mixed: Cruz

[narciso]

And they have the nazgul Seth McFarlane as cohost, four false passports, what kind of outfit are they running over there,

[Miss Marple]

Maylasia has convened a counter-terrorism task force to investigate. The minister in charge of transportation said they were probing a possible terror link.

Above info came over Twitter.

[Miss Marple]

Well, from what I can figure out, if you have a passport and it doesn't say "FAKE" on it you pretty much get through.

Some security.

And apparently this isn't just Malaysia, it's almost everywhere.

[Danube on iPad]

"but you are not interested enough to research it?"

Correctamundo.

[Miss Marple]

Off to set my clocks and head to bed.

Night, all.

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

Maylasia has convened a counter-terrorism task force to investigate. The minister in charge of transportation said they were probing a possible terror link.

Obama's gonna give 'em a call as soon as he's off the links.

[narciso]

Yes, but you would think there would be a flag on the # of that particular person, along with a match to the new passport, just being ehetorical,

[Threadkiller]

Faking interest is the same as being interested.

[matt]

Kennedy was a natural orator and had great speechwriters. That he made some really bad decisions is shrouded by the Camelot myth. Johnson made few great speeches. Nixon was Nixon. Ford was out of his league.

Carter was one of the greatest fools I have head speak. Reagan was a great. He had great writers, he edited his work very well, and he spoke from the heart. GHWB was a drone. Slick Willie could charm the pants off a $20 whore and look you in the eye as he stole your wallet and screwed your girlfriend and you still liked him.

GWB was okay but done in by a supercritical press, and Obama is a fuckin farce. And very few of these presidents actually studied oratory except for Reagan, an actor.

Cruz has argued before the Supreme Court at least twice, which makes your bones as a lawyer.

At a very young age I got to hear MLK speak and he was transformational. When one studies the classics, one finds that rhetoric was one of the most important skills for the public arena.

Demosthenes, Cato, Cicero, even St. Augustine and Savanarola were able to spellbind a crowd and even the intelligentsia. Hitchins and many others were pretty good at the Oxford Union.

What we see today is pathetic sloganism and pandering for the most part. Palin is refreshing simply because she upsets so many apple carts. The same goes with Rand, who I believe has a true 18th Century Constitutional heart. I have seen his dad's Paulians at work, whom I despise.

But certain truisms need to be repeated time and again. The Constitution matters, all of it. Faith matters. Righteous conduct matters.These are unpopular ideas today, but they will, simply because of the truth of these ideas, not fade away.

Because the world will force its ugly way into our carefully constructed lives again whether we like it not. Are we friends of liberty or the minions of tyrants?

This is the question raised so well 240 years ago.

[narciso]

this seems to the more recent one;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10685413/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-terror-fears-over-stolen-passports-used-on-missing-plane-MH370.html

[Patriot4Freedom]

Posted on the last thread . . .

The man in Frau's picture posted in the previous thread at 5:10 is *NOT* the psychotic troll who is here stalking Clarice. The man pictured is *much* better looking than our moronic pest.

The man with Arianna "PuffHo" Huffington is a Greek grocery chain owner by the name of John Catsimatidis (his hot, younger blonde wife, Margo, is in the full picture on his left). They hosted a party for Arianna's sister, Agapi, a writer, in 2012. She has some nutty (natch) book about the gods/goddesses within us all. Some funny stuff at her site:

http://www.unbindingtheheart.com/

[clarice]

I don't remember who the a\spat with bates involved. I remember I liked both posters very much. I wish bates would return. I miss his sharp wit.

[narciso]

Some have made the comparison with AF 447, but that seems a little far afield,

[Frau Nachthemd]

Setting my clocks ahead? Ya betcha!

Probably tonight...

I hate time changes. They are evil and dangerous. Y'all be careful.

[glenda]

polly..don't believe we've met..I'm glenda, from Texas,a Palin admirer, with a clear understanding of why she resigned her governorship..but most of all;I advocate for, and respect persons with disabilities, no matter the label..so the way you chose to condescendingly speak of her beloved son; I counter..

Her voice ? Her cadence ? If you judge a person by these things..you probably disliked GWB or FDR, Jimma Carter and maybe, Cagney or the "Duke". Obama's smooth melodic speech fooled many--turn off the volume and CC her speeches.. maybe then you will understand.

Never the republican candidate? Maybe, but--they're used to losing...why change?

[glenda]

polly..don't believe we've met..I'm glenda, from Texas,a Palin admirer, with a clear understanding of why she resigned her governorship..but most of all;I advocate for, and respect persons with disabilities, no matter the label..so the way you chose to condescendingly speak of her beloved son; I counter..

Her voice ? Her cadence ? If you judge a person by these things..you probably disliked GWB or FDR, Jimma Carter and maybe, Cagney or the "Duke". Obama's smooth melodic speech fooled many--turn off the volume and CC her speeches.. maybe then you will understand.

Never the republican candidate? Maybe, but--they're used to losing...why change?

[narciso]

But that great deal that Brown and Murkowski signed on to;

@FoxNews: BREAKING: Moscow mulls freeze on US military inspections under arms control pact Russian news report

[Danube on iPad]

"Faking interest is the same as being interested."

Saying stupid things is the same thing as saying stupid things.

[clarice]

*bgates* not "bates"

Pagar that Tabor case involved whether the govt.'s rules on employment discrimination covered teachers in a religious school. The plaintiff was a minister, but that is a far cry from a claim that the govt has the right and intends to to pick religious leaders.

[Danube on iPad]

Harry Truman was the poorest orator among all the presidents of my lifetime. Ike was not much better. I don't think HST could win an election in this day and age, but I would rank him behind only Reagan among those I've seen.

[narciso]

When Schmidt and Wallace, and Davis, (last seen handling the Yanukovich account) also decided to take a dive, not considering the consequences she didn't falter,

[glenda]

I apologize for the double..granny is tired :)

frau, CC, ignatz, matt....Exactly ! mwah :)

narciso !

[Frau Nachthemd]

Before I set those clocks, I see I have left Patriot4Freedom with the impression that I thought I posted a picture of the current troll.
NO WAY -
I only pointed out the sisters Stassinopoulos and said, jokingly, our troll knows them since he accuses others of knowing the people in photos he/she/it posts.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.
The grocer and his lovely wife were innocent bystanders.
Arianna Stassinopoulos not so much.
The troll not at all.

[Gus]

Beasts???? Is that a Hummingbird?

[Gus]

Danube my friend. Of course you are correct about Truman. Truman was a one term VP and not well known. The death of FDR vaulted him into the Presidency, and the end of the war, the BOMB ETC, and the times, made it easy for him to be reelected. Of course, Truman wasn't nearly as cool as Chocolate Jesus, but he was a MAN.

[Ignatz]

People seem to be getting a might cranky again.

Guess I'll retire with my cc kisses to dream of. :)

[Beasts of England]

It's an early J-200, Gus - a very nice one!

[Threadkiller]

Saying stupid things is the same thing as saying stupid things.

[Gus]

Beasts, do you own that?

[Beasts of England]

No, Gus - another listing at Gary's Guitars. When I was surfing guitar porn the other day, I hit Gruhn's site and he had for sale the earliest known Stratocaster: 1/54 neck date, 0100 markings on the pots, etc. Asking a cool $250k. I didn't buy it...

[Beasts of England]

Houdini! ;)

[Captain Hate]

I don't think HST could win an election in this day and age, but I would rank him behind only Reagan among those I've seen.

Rank him behind Reagan for what?

[Gus]

Beasts, isn't Gary's a Wisconsin company. LaCrosse mayhaps??

[Beasts of England]

Cincinnati, Ohio!

http://www.garysguitars.com/

[Gus]

Beasts, as much as a ADORE guitars, I have a hell of a time going to stores like Gary's and Gruhns (sp) or any Nashville operation. It's painful. I WANT I WANT I WANT.

[Threadkiller]

In a testament to my Google skills I present a clown playing a Framus similar to mine. The clincher is, he is playing the only song I know and just about as poorly as me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YS8z35WX9o

I possess a unique set of skills.

[Beasts of England]

It's tough for me, too, Gus. Unfortunately, Nashville is one of my frequent traveling destinations. Gruhn moved his operation away from Broadway, so now it's an effort to get there instead of walking by it every time I'm downtown.

[Jeff Dobbs]

heh. heh heh. heh heh heh.

[Beasts of England]

Is yours a twelve-string, TK? I like Framus, by the way - an uncommon instrument...

[Jeff Dobbs]

bgates and boris had a dustup on Jan 29. Employer based insurance.

bgates and NK had a dustup on Jan 15 (or thereabouts). Lincoln.

I think the idea that bgates would stop posting due to a dustup is not credible.

[Danube on iPad]

"Truman wasn't nearly as cool as Chocolate Jesus, but he was a MAN."

Dropped two bombs. Integrated the armed forces. Saved Greece. Instituted the Berlin airlift. Rightly fired MacArthur. Saved and preserved South Korea.

[Danube on iPad]

"Rank him behind Reagan for what?"

The value, accomplishments and nobility of his presidency.

[jimmyk]

HST also didn't finish college. Just sayin', for those who think that's a disadvantage for Walker.

[Beasts of England]

Goodnight, friends. Gotta turn in early - losing an hours beauty sleep will not be pretty. ;)

[Jeff Dobbs]

183,000 still without power in NC. 74,000 of them in my county.

[jimmyk]

Speaking of Walker, Drudge has a poll for 2016 Republicans with 11 "candidates", and didn't include Walker for some reason.

[Danube on iPad]

Truman Doctrine. And perhaps most of all, Marshall Plan.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Apparently there was a basketball game of some import here in NC tonight. All I know is the pool hall was overrun with idiots so I came home early. Everyone was wearing blue.

Go to hell Blue Tar Devil Heels!

[Threadkiller]

12 string. Beasts. The neck is laminated perpendicular to the fret-board, is that makes sense.

It is an odd looking duck.

Haven't opened the case in over 5 years.

[Threadkiller]

...if that...

[Another Bob]

Gus, I think you're thinking Dave Rogers' place in LaCrosse.

(Who has a 1935 Martin for sale, asking a cool $125K.)

[Jeff Dobbs]

hit and run jr is taking guitar lessons. He had an evaluation today.

Evaluation: "Solid performance"

Rock on, hit and run jr . . . rock on.