The Optics Were Accurate

Ron Fournier of the National Journal presses on with his "How To Run A White House" series; today's topic is adjusting the President's schedule in response to crises.

Is the White House Lying or Just Bad at Crisis Communications?

Ordering a cheeseburger with fries while a downed airline smolders may not have been a great decision.

He links to a NY Times story making similar points:

Sticking to His Travel Plans, at Risk of Looking Bad

Obama Maintains Schedule Despite World Crises

WASHINGTON — As smoke billowed from the downed Malaysian jetlinerin the fields of eastern Ukraine on Thursday, President Obama pressed ahead with his schedule: a cheeseburger with fries at the Charcoal Pit in Delaware, a speech about infrastructure and two splashy fund-raisers in New York City.

The world is blowing up and Obama is out to lunch - the optics were spot on.

Comments

[Texas Liberty Gal]

But this article says Obama is winning & Putin is losing???

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-21/obama-seen-gaining-on-putin-as-u-s-prods-eu-on-sanctions.html

[Threadkiller]

Hapless Putz

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

"Is the White House Lying or Just Bad at Crisis Communications?"

YES

[lyle]

Why do bad things keep happening to him? He's such a swell guy!

[Ignatz]

--obama-seen-gaining-on-putin-as-u-s-prods-eu-on-sanctions--

Seen, eh? Optics anyone?
I guess if Vlad sinks a couple of full-to-the-brim Holland America cruise ships Barry will be "seen" as vaulting into the lead, and that's all that counts right?

[MarkO]

He just not that smart and he's a lair.

In addition, he's just plain bad luck.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

The Bloomie News report well and truly jumps the shark. It includes a quote that The Ukraine invasion proves 'Putin's weakness' and 'desperation'. Any quess who came up with that gem (NOT YOU IG, you read the article.)

[lyle]

Hamas has a stylebook:

http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2014/07/hamas-giving-civilians-how-to-lie-about.html

[Ignatz]

Roman Republic seen gaining on Caesar as he crosses Rubicon.

Japanese Empire seen gaining on US as bombing of Pearl Harbor goes off without a hitch.

Hitler seen gaining on Stalin as invasion of Soviet Union begins.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Ignatz-- all very apt ( although, I may have gone with Midway and surrounding Stalingrad metaphors)

[Rick B]

The "seen" headline sure sets up some nice "unexpectedly" stories for the fall.

Ukrainian Grain Exports Unexpectedly Blockaded in Odessa by Russian Naval Forces

Ukrainian Steel Sales From Donbass Region Unexpectedly Fall to Zero

European Natural Gas Deliveries Unexpectedly Interrupted by Gazprom

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

I think I agree with this conclusion: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/18/merry-handicaps-in/

[rse]

If you want kind of a break from the mishandling of foreign affairs, I have a new post up. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/sculpting-the-inner-eyes-that-guide-what-real-eyes-perceive-from-daily-experiences/

Matt-I am going to respond to your German Green economy comment from the other thread to point out that the Jeremy Rifkin book I use to discuss a required education for empathy lays out the Green Vision. It was part of the distributed capitalism push also coming out of Harvard B School. It does not work, but pushing it does destroy the West's ability to stand up to a Russia, China, or Iran's bullying.

On the odd Bloomie quote above, I noticed yesterday that Bloomberg News is a listed partner in the Baoa Forum.

Reading that Baoa material made me wonder what the effect will be of all that dollar debt held by the Chinese should they decide to redeem it instead of rolling it over or buying more. How do the Chinese benefit materially and not just ideologically or militarily from pushing to crash the US ed system?

[narciso]

well it's politico writers that can't helped, a similar problem here;

http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782

[Thomas Collins]

I wonder when the Tom Friedman types will stop pretending that Vlad's aggressive moves show weakness: Moldova? Central and western Ukraine? Latvia? Poland?

I suppose when Red China invades Taiwan, that will be a sign that the Mao princelings and the PLA are losing.

[narciso]

they are just building more walls to the Cave, I recall many years ago, one of those prophecy programs by the World Wide Church of God, referred to Rifkin, in an approving way.

[Thomas Collins]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4462/proportionality-doctrine

The above link is to a short piece arguing that Israel's actions in Gaza meet the "proportionality" test often trotted out by conciliatory internationalists (leaving aside the reality that lasting peace usually is achieved by the unconditional surrender of one side or the other).

[Rick B]

"How do the Chinese benefit materially and not just ideologically or militarily from pushing to crash the US ed system?"

RSE,

The Chinese military oligarchs will benefit from a separate banking system in the same way as the Russian oligarchy in that a separate system would not be subject to capital levies as the OPM Famine deepens and EUtopia and the US start really gobbling seed corn in the futile effort to maintain the fantasy. It's not a matter of "crashing", it's a matter of bleeding followed by corpse robbing.

I'd put the southern Africans and Australians in the "most at risk" category in the intermediate future. Why should the Chinese military pay for resources which it can steal?

Who would defend southern Africa?

[rse]

"Obama is expected to sign the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act on Tuesday. Obama will also visit a Los Angeles community college that retrains workers for in-demand healthcare jobs."

Let me control my enthusiasm. Have the Governors pushing a vision of state planned capitalism along with mayors sure does dovetail nicely with China's desire to push that Asian vision on the US and the rest of the West.

[Thomas Collins]

Meanwhile, Europe's inability to develop a unified robust response to Vlad continues:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4464/eu-russia

Once again, the question seems to be what will it take for the Euros to figure out that conciliatory internationalism and a focus on climate change as the gravest national security concern do not constitute a credible response to aggression.

[Thomas Collins]

Meanwhile, Arab solidarity seems to be lacking in the case of the Palestinians.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4463/palestinians-arabs-betrayed-us

The myth of the gentry elite that the "solving" the Israeli-Palestinian situation is a key to peace in the Middle East is turning out to be as big of a joke as the consensus on the "settled science" of global cooling er global warming er climate change er hinky weather. . . .

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

ThomC-- but... but... BloomieNews and Jay Carney say Obummer/EuroWeenies are WINNING! over Putin.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

And from our ChiTown friend, the IRS continues to play, who hid the salami? http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/21/now-irs-reports-even-more-computer-crashes-doesnt-know-if-emails-still-exist/#!

[narciso]

It stands to reason, about the PLO, which was a front put up 50/50 between Saudi General Intelligence and the GRU's Sakharovsky who according to Pacepa, was Arafat's handler.

[narciso]

Back in the 80s, it was Thatcher, Kohl, Andreotti, the grand old man, of Italian politics, Mitterand, who was relatively sober
for a socialist.

[Thomas Collins]

"Obummer/EuroWeenies are WINNING! over Putin."

NK, Obama and the Euros have gentry public opinion in hand, while Vlad has the black boxes and eastern Ukraine in hand. I guess to Obama and the Euros that's winning.

[narciso]

one of the subplots in Ignatius's latest, is the CIA hires a Snowden type who subsequently tries to hack the BIS, with his Chinese, Russian and Israeli associates,

[Pagar]

[email protected]:42
Do not despair, the city council in Burlington, Iowa will get right on their central planning problem as soon as they pass the city ordinance that says the parent of any child caught playing with a toy gun will pay a $500 dollar fine or go to Jail for 30 days.

Sure makes me glad I left Iowa over fifty years ago.

IMO, that city council has gone insane.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

ThomC-- the Obummer/EU 'winning' meme has been adopted by JournoGentry like BloomieNews and Thomas Friedman, we are making a bit of sport over that.

[Pagar]

The story is on the Gateway Pundit blog for my 02:21 post.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

I have been predicting this for almost a year: http://hotair.com/archives/2014/07/21/the-media-is-drafting-elizabeth-warren-to-run-in-2016/

[narciso]

And then Volodya's fangs tore into the Solon's neck;

http://weaselzippers.us/193920-biden-the-badass-i-told-putin-to-his-face-he-did-not-have-a-soul/

[matt]

The dithering on the MH17 shootdown is indicative of how bad things really are. Putin is smiling like the Cheshire Cat and putting out the most base bullshit and the Euroditherers just can't seem to get their shit together.

Back in the old days before the reset button was pushed we would have rolled the case out at the UN with photos, tapes and other resources.

"Winning" is not the issue. Mass murder is. And that sums up the whole class of fools who pass for leadership and an intelligentsia.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

[email protected]:31-- heh.

BTW-- why would Biden say such a thing about our strategic 'partner' Vlad I?

[peter]

Pagar @2:21 I blame Iowa for a lot, including getting Obama the nomination, ethanol scam to name two

[rse]

Rick-this kind of $ transfer quickly turns into a sense of entitlement. http://www.rsablogs.org.uk/2014/adam-lent/citizens-spend-tax-revenues-technocrats-top/#more-21906

It reminds me of how the SNAP cards are now being used. Knowing how vouchers impact education, I think this will also have the further effect of regulating even more of the private sector.

When the OPM famine starts in earnest, it will not be politicians in trouble so much as the so-called haves not being willing to fund the have-nots. Who may well feel entitled to take such neglect of their just rights personally.

[Jim]

It's not like it was 3AM.

[Eric in Boise]

As far as the press drafting Dances With Marx, at least there's an upside of no Hillary! in the WH.

The downside's a real corker, though.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

The IRS, is now in completely implausible who hid the salami mode: http://hotair.com/archives/2014/07/21/irs-lawyer-by-the-way-the-hard-drives-of-some-other-employees-who-dealt-with-lois-lerner-also-crashed/

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

A jihadi is convicted of aiding the Boston Bombing through obstruction. I wonder if Obummer will pardon him: http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/marathon-suspects-friend-guilty-of-impeding-probe?ocid=fbmsn

[Thomas Collins]

The Russkie rebels do have a macabre sense of humor; I'll grant them that.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/19/ukraine-rebel-leader-claims-flight-mh17-was-filled-with-already-dead-bodies/

[Extraneus]

Bolivia's president re-elected head of coca union, calls for growth of legally allowed crops

LA PAZ, Bolivia – Bolivian President Evo Morales has been re-elected head of the country's largest union of coca growers and promises to expand crops if he wins a third term as the nation's leader.

Morales told union members Sunday that Bolivia needs a new law regarding coca production.

Current law allows nearly 30,000 acres of coca leaf to be grown for traditional use. One proposal would expand the permitted acreage, including in the Chapare region that is Morales' political base, to more than 49,000 acres.

The United Nations, however, has estimated Bolivia already grows more than that, with nearly 57,000 acres believed dedicated to the crop last year.

Traditionally, coca leaf is used in religious rituals or to fight off fatigue and altitude sickness. It also can be used to produce cocaine.

[Ignatz]

Question for RSE;
The Soviet Union, among others, tried to use the education system to warp human minds and mostly what they seemed to accomplish was create a thriving jokes-at-the-expense-of-the-party industry as what the citizens were taught conflicted with what their eyes saw.

Does our western educational nomenklatura have a better chance of succeeding than their predecessors? With the ubiquitous nature of information now compared to the closed society they were in it would seem at first glance unlikely.

[jimmyk]

I have had two hard drives crash in 25 years or so of desktop computing, probably 20 different computers. In one of the two cases I was able to recover the data, in the other I didn't even try because it was a nearly new computer. That's all quite aside from whatever backups were done. When I worked in a quasi-government institution the C: drive was really a network drive and routinely backed up. E-mail was always on a server and also would have been backed up. And what about those Blackberry servers where e-mails would have been stored?

The IRS claims are utterly preposterous, and any judge worthy of the name should judge them in contempt, and they should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice.

[Marlene]

NK @ 2:24...Howie Carr is discussing the fake Indian.He is being very cynical today and thinks she could appeal to a certain segment,not just the moonbats in Mass. Remember,if you question her heritage,you are the racist.

Lots of family stuff going on,but I've been lurking.

[Ignatz]

I judge the Red Squaw's chances as better than the Red Witch's, but then I calculate Cankle's odds at zero, so I still say Mrs Crabapple will never be CIC either.

[Extraneus]

They must have a lot to hide, Jimmy.

[narciso]

the vampire image came to mind, blame the strain, the Master's helper Eldritch (watch
the Lovecraft) covers up the pandemic, by putting forward a story about a faulty air
circulation system,

Wonder if anyone asked the Solon if the events in the Donbass, are proof of the wisdom of partition,

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Fauxchahontas-- the centerpiece of her prog manifesto is student debt bailout. What did the poor darlings debt pay for? HER salary and pension. Will she stab the academy in the back and say rollback tuition to appease her parasite targets? not likely. She's in a box. The Media will spin like crazy for her, she won't excite the younguns.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

We are getting to decision time soon. Will Vlad continue to play the political blackmail and proxy fighter game in Donetsek, or does he go full Crimea and annex Eastern Ukraine with an invasion?
4 months ago I was in the continued blackmail camp. This Buk shootdown suggests Vlad will be more aggresive than that.

[Cecil Turner]

The problem with these "crises" is that they're perfectly predictable results of this Administration's bungling foreign policy:

• Pull all forces out of Iraq, rise of Islamic surgency;
• Appease Russian expansionism, get more of same;
• Reward youthful illegal aliens with "path to citizenship," get a sudden influx of more youthful illegals;
• Reward Iranian uranium enrichment efforts, get more enrichment;
• Remove accountability for Hamas, embolden militants.

(The only one of those I might give 'em a pass on is the last one . . . it's not like Hamas needs an excuse to attack Israel . . . but it's also not like their diplomacy is helping.)

The bottom line is that a rational response to any of these requires them to see the world as it actually is, instead of through the distorting prism of leftist ideology. And they are constitutionally unable to do so.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

CecilT-- as Glenn Reynolds would say, Obummer sees all of these things as features-- not bugs.

Obummer despises a strong America and a safe Israel, so all of this is just peachy for Obummer.

[lyle]

He's taking Ukraine, NK. No one will stop him. Not the Eunuchs. Not the US. No one.

[squaredance]

Well the old USSR Nomenklatura actually believed in Education and in competing internationally in cultural and intellectual matters. It is true that toward the end they were not doing so well at this, but nonetheless this is what separates them from today's crop of neo-communists in America--the latter want to literally tear down anything resembling civilized existence whatsoever.

In a certain sense, the communist built the "modern" educational system in the USSR. They had little to destroy.

So there was an outer layer or three of "useful idiot" social engineering for the new Soviet Man (meant mostly to frighten anyone who had a brain at all), but there was also filtering for students to elite schools where standards were exceptionally high.

The fruits of this were obliviously in STEM, but they go beyond that. For example, Russia produced some of the best classical pianists of the last half of the 20th Century--people like Richter and Gilels.

Granted, there was a great deal of cynicism in this, but there was some respect for what the west had achieve culturally, particularly after the war (and after Stalin).

The educational system was not merely a patronage racket like we see in America. They actually had to know something.

Our pack of vipers want to wipe everything out. They are, bizarrely, greater barbarians than the Soviets every where, excluding the worse years of Stalin perhaps. They attack standards everywhere, even in the "elite" schools, and have a real contempt for real learning, culture or even science (witness global warning "science").

That being said, it is not true that the Nomnklatura and their attempts at "social engineering" in the USSR merely left a legacy of cynical "jokes". They left a bitter legacy of millions dead and millions more whose lives were devastated and left barren. They in effect destroyed Russian Society, and very much damaged the very psyche of the Russian peoples.

Russia is still very much in under this cloud today. For people who know Russia, Putin is a great tragedy for the Russian people. He will lead them event further into darkness rather than bring them into light.

Of course, if we do know throw off our Leftist tyrants here we are not far behind them.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

All of Ukraine? Land mass twice the size of Texas with nationalistic ethnic Ukraines who could easily mount an insurgency? I still don't see that, but the MH-17 shootdown with the SAM-11 BUK is a major escalation.

[Threadkiller]

Is there evidence that Obama's foreign policies are having an effect that Obama does not want?

[James D.]

Does our western educational nomenklatura have a better chance of succeeding than their predecessors? With the ubiquitous nature of information now compared to the closed society they were in it would seem at first glance unlikely.

The difference is, in the USSR, people could see that their standard of living was terrible, but the government kept telling them it wasn't.

Here, people can see that their standard of living is decent, but the progs are telling them that it's not good enough - and they're telling them who to blame for that fact. That's a MUCH easier sell, unfortunately

[narciso]

you were saying;

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/authorities-russia-continues-firing-at-ukrainian-positions-moves-100-extra-military-units-to-border-357167.html

[lyle]

Well, the Ukes (if you will) gave up their big deterrance as a sop to nuclear de-escalation. How's that working now?

[rse]

Ignatz-the Soviets understood the nature of the system they were dealing with. The kids most under attack now in the West are the high-achieving UMC suburban or private schools. Most of those parents are busy and are quite sure their property taxes and the fact that others 5 years ago went to Ivies or the exorbitant tuition are the protection.

Remember I still have one in high school so not only do I understand the theory and what is intended, but I also still can fave an SUV full of teenagers asking me questions.

Will the teachers be allowed to teach this year?

How can we be held responsible for material no one was allowed to teach us?

I have listened to the Super lie to parents faces about what is going on in reliance of misperceptions of what words like rigor mean. I have told a school board member that something was factually untrue and I could prove it only to have her retort that would mean ** was lying to her and he wouldn't do that.

Of course her faith is the whole reason to lie because it keeps the parents who ought to be in open rebellion in check. They believe because she believes.

I joke about the Diva, but she is an auto-didact like her mom and dad. She may hate school, but if anything having to teach herself is making her stronger.

So the answer is that many parents still have no idea any of this is going on. The new definitions of student achievement and new kinds of 'testing' that are not about knowledge and get satisfied by group projects with free riding are all designed to keep the obscuring going as long as possible. Into college for many.

[MarkO]

Feels like 1939.

[Ignatz]

--Reward Iranian uranium enrichment efforts, get more enrichment;--

If we're extremely lucky that's what we'll get.

[cathyf]

The Soviet Union, among others, tried to use the education system to warp human minds and mostly what they seemed to accomplish was create a thriving jokes-at-the-expense-of-the-party industry as what the citizens were taught conflicted with what their eyes saw.

Does our western educational nomenklatura have a better chance of succeeding than their predecessors?

Be aware of what they also produced: a whole nation of useless drunks whose usual emotional state is envy and revenge. So the only thing that gets them off their worthless butts is the opportunity to tear down and snipe at anyone showing some initiative to work and make something of themselves.

To anyone who protests rse's work with "ridiculous conspiracy" and "can't possibly work", we need to answer that OF COURSE it's not going to work the way that they think it will. Because OF COURSE they are completely oblivious to how anything works. But that's the WORST PART -- if the world worked the way these delusionals think it does, then the outcomes would not be nearly as bad as it's going to be.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

That map sure does look like an annexation/partition play. TBD.

[MarkO]

"Is there evidence that Obama's foreign policies are having an effect that Obama does not want?"

Only to the extent they might interfere with campaigning for total control of the government.

[narciso]

Well Volodya thought the 2nd Chechen war would be a quick round of 'shock and awe, subway bombings, Beslan, black widows, have made that a poor guess,

[squaredance]

MH-17 looks to be a typical Russian screw up with client thugs; I rather doubt it is a directed action from the Kremlin or that is is a part of some premeditated "strategy", and I further doubt that Putin is very happy about it. The Russian regime consists of opportunists and thugs so they will see what they can get out of it now, but it really puts them in a terrible position with Europe. We will have to watch this play out so far as the EUrocrats go.

That is not to say that Obama in Co. will not totally screw this up.

Let us hope that we do not get WW3 out of it.

[Ignatz]

--That being said, it is not true that the Nomnklatura and their attempts at "social engineering" in the USSR merely left a legacy of cynical "jokes".--

It's fortunate for us then that no one made that argument.

[lyle]

I rather doubt it is a directed action from the Kremlin or that is is a part of some premeditated "strategy", and I further doubt that Putin is very happy about it.

Based on what evidence?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

@4:16-- that's probably the most logical explanation. It still puts mass murder blood on Putin's hands though. he gave the SAMs to his stooges and trained them how to use them. He is culpable for the consequences.

[Jane]

Howie Carr's poll today was on how much time the marathon aider and abetter should get. 83% said the maximum - which is 20 years. Anyone know who the judge is?

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

OL-- do you know anybody who lives on Colebrook Terrace in Potomac?

[Ignatz]

I think people can be poorly educated so they don't know too much but I think it has serious limits because once it's past a certain point not only does the real world conflict rather painfully with what they're being taught but it reaches the point of attempting to alter immutable human nature which never works because of that inconvenient immutable part.

[lyle]

Let us hope that we do not get WW3 out of it.

So who, exactly, would be on OUR side? The EUnuchs? Really?

[Ignatz]

--but it really puts them in a terrible position with Europe--

So Europe will put serious pressure on Putin and heat their homes with their own furniture next winter?
What's good for Ikea isn't necessarily good for Europe.

[squaredance]

Well when I see this:

The Soviet Union, among others, tried to use the education system to warp human minds and mostly what they seemed to accomplish was create a thriving jokes-at-the-expense-of-the-party industry as what the citizens were taught conflicted with what their eyes saw.

The implication appears to be that this is the primary result. This, as I point out, is not true, and in fact the 'create a thriving jokes-at-the-expense-of-the-party industry" was really a minor side effect of their Agenda (and BTW, it most certainly was not an "industry").

So, given the comment, Ig, it is not strictly true that "It's fortunate for us then that no one made that argument".

They may not have meant to have made it, but the words speak for themselves.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

Lyle and Ignatz point out the insanity of Euro Watermellons these past 20 years. They have led to a point where Putin is the EU's virtual sole source for NatGas energy. Wait... maybe the EU Watermelons were Russian plants the whole time. Very KGBish.

[MarkO]

How are the Russian stories about the downing of the airliner substantially different from Obama's lies about Benghazi?

[lyle]

Taranto, writing about a one on one with Barry and a single young mother, Tanei Benjamin, in Wilmingtion, DE:

He admired her commitment to finishing school, he told her.

He said it reminded him of his late mother, Ann Dunham, an ambitious student who for a time took government assistance to take care of her children while building her career. . .

She said she watched him walk away, wondering if maybe her daughter, Arona, now 6, might have great things in her future too.

"She did it," Benjamin said of Obama's mother. "Maybe I can too."

As I read this, "did it" = screwing a Communist.

[lyle]

How are the Russian stories about the downing of the airliner substantially different from Obama's lies about Benghazi?

Their's don't involve a hyper-ambitious, soulless and medacious woman with a penchant for pantsuits and booze and an unrequited lust for the White House?

[squaredance]

Lyle, my experience with the Russian regimes, both Soviet and post Soviets.

It is extremely hard to believe that he would order the downing of a civilian airplane, and Russian FACs or their bosses do not have much room to improvise. It is most likely some stupid response from one of their client thugs, and no doubt inadvertently prompted by some general spetsnaz goading.
The heretofore limp response of the West (and not just the EU) no doubt played its part as well.

On that note, the political situation for the EUocrats is more fluid than you imagine, and yes, Putin can screw this up considerably. He does not have the winning hand that you imagine. He certainly cannot annex all the Ukraine now. That is off the table after this incident.

I imagine that right now a lot of bribes are being floated around Brussels, but if Putin does not pull back from all of this, that will not be enough.

The whole thing in the Ukraine smacked of egosim, chauvinism and a lack of broader cogitation and planning. The Ukraine is not Georgia. Putin now reaps the fruit of this.

Again, we have to see how this plays out. It is a very big deal in Europe right now, much more so than here.

[Ignatz]

--They may not have meant to have made it, but the words speak for themselves.--

Well, I made it and what I said was the Soviet's education system mostly turned out cynical citizens who made jokes about how bad things were compared to what they were told in school.

What you said was;

it is not true that the Nomnklatura and their attempts at "social engineering" in the USSR merely left a legacy of cynical "jokes".

"Merely" indicates my argument was that was all it produced; jokes.
I didn't mention the Soviet Nomenklatura nor social engineering. Both aspects of the Soviet system went far beyond fantasy school curricula.

You went on to point out that one of the results of Soviet social engineering was millions of dead citizens. Obviously you're speaking of something beyond K-12 education which was all I mentioned, unless the Show trials were really the Show and Tell trials.

What you said about the Soviets was accurate. What you said I said wasn't.
Not a big point but nobody likes to be misinterpreted even if it's to make a legitimate point.

[NK(withnewsoftware)]

@4:42-- I think this is right. And Kiev is not Grozny, so Putin has to calculate much differently. He's a despot, but a rational actor.

[lyle]

I defer to your expertise dealing with the Russians, squaredance, but from what I've read, it takes quite a bit of training to fire one of those rockets and successfully hit a target. Given that, it couldn't possibly be some Ukrainian peasants dragged into service for plausible deniability.

I have no doubt that pretty much all of Europe is damn nervous but with Vlad controlling the gas valve, what are they going to do about it? Pay him off? They're already paying him.

[cathyf]

I think people can be poorly educated so they don't know too much but I think it has serious limits because once it's past a certain point not only does the real world conflict rather painfully with what they're being taught but it reaches the point of attempting to alter immutable human nature which never works because of that inconvenient immutable part.

I think you seriously underestimate the power of envy. The "real world" is that the peck-and-drool crowd end up with nothing, while the industrious end up with something. Immutable human nature is that the peck-and-drool crowd is easily convinced that their poverty is the fault of the industrious, and that if they just gin up a mob they can take "back" what is rightfully theirs.

I have said over and over that I think that the most important Commandment is "thou shalt not covet". The other commandments say not to lie, cheat, steal, kill -- this one says "don't even THINK about it!"

[narciso]

well Vor Volodya does fancy himself a czar, something Garton Ash did notice 20 years ago, when he met him at a conference, in St Petersburg

[Ignatz]

Uh oh;
All that heat supposedly sinking into the oceans doesn't seem to be there.
Oops. Back to the drawing board for the Team.

[squaredance]

Ig, I merely cut and pasted your words.

And you in effect said it all voer again with this

Well, I made it and what I said was the Soviet's education system mostly turned out cynical citizens who made jokes about how bad things were compared to what they were told in school

Again, this is not "mostly" what they turned out--again, it is a side effect. I noted what in fact was the main result.

Also, you really cannot separate out the "educational system" from other elements of the the Communist project in the USSR. The educational system was quite intertwined with everything else, not to mention that there were poltical officers in the schools, and that their notes of individuals followed those individual throughout their lives, often profoundly influencing their destinies. You know, you can actually measure some purges by the time it takes to "educate" a new "cadre" (one especially sees this in the political leadership outside of the Russian Soviet).

If your argument is that you where "merely" talking about the educational system it is a specious one.

I think that you just misspoke. More to the point, the American neo-communists in "education" here, certainly do much more damage than a "cynical jokes industry", as did the Soviets.

If you want a good history of this, I suggest some of the early chapters in Paul Johnson's "Modern Times".

[Ignatz]

The peck and drool crowd pecks and drools and always has regardless of what they're taught; "The poor you will have with you always".

Those who can, do, and when they do they begin to realize what they were taught by those who can't was a crock.

[Ignatz]

I'm not going to argue a minor point of hyperbole with you squaredance and I've read Modern Times a couple of times, but I do have to say the new and improved squaredance who engages in nice, respectful discussions instead of telling me what a blind, simpering fool I am for not shooting either my neighbors with the Obama bumperstickers, or, failing that, for not shooting myself because I didn't shoot my neighbors is very welcome. Hope he sticks around.

[Ignatz]

Comment from my WUWT link;

Merrick says:
July 21, 2014 at 10:43 am

So, as I’ve commented before, water is densest at 4C. Above 4C water expands. That’s what warmists think is driving sea level rise along with the essentially non-existent land ice losses. Below 4C water expands, then expands a lot when it goes through the transition from liquid to solid. A quick look at Figure 2 from the paper shows that everything below 400m is below 4C. So the deep ocean cooling is causing the ocean to expand. The sea level is rising because of GLOBAL COOLING.

[squaredance]

All I can say is;

It's fortunate for us then that I NEVER made that argument.

Really ig,

simpering fool I am for not shooting either my neighbors with the Obama bumperstickers, or, failing that, for not shooting myself because I didn't shoot my neighbors is very welcome.

Is just a preposterous assertion, and you are just putting words in my mouth here.

Every thing I have said has come true. Witness the current so called "border crisis".

I said that JOMers where not prepared for what was coming, and I was right.

Much worse is yet to come.

[matt]

The new Russia is worse in many ways than the old USSR. Drug addiction, abortion, poverty and hopelessness are worse than ever.

You can move upwards, but it is still a nomenklatura. Russia's population is destroying itself. But Vlad needs the image of strongman desperately.

He is gambling the hand he was dealt and is willing to go all the way, which we and the Europeans are not. No one has the military nor the wherewithal to wage war and it is all but impossible to tell the citizenry of France, Germany,Holland et al that it will be a cold winter because of Ukraine's problems.

The Western political class has been castrated by leftist/socialist magical realism and will only wake when the Chinese and their allies begin to squeeze hard.

[Cast Iron]

"you are just putting words in my mouth here."

Yelled the Pot to the Kettle...

[Steve]

Watch Live: Gaza City under fire as Israel steps up ground operation

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2014/07/watch-live-gaza-city-under-fire-as.html

[Captain Hate]

I said that JOMers where not prepared for what was coming, and I was right.

I was prepared for what was coming; it's the nutless excuse for an opposition party that's stuck with their tiny dicks in their hands, not knowing what to do against a lawless administration.

[Extraneus]

Much worse is yet to come.

Just about everyone here agrees with you on this point, sd. No one says that this is the dawning of a new, better, age. The country is clearly being gang-raped and pillaged, and many here believe that only civil violence and/or secession will turn the tide. I hope you are armed, as we are, because I know you're on our side.

[cathyf]

I have to say, Iggie, that I'm with squaredance here. You think that the black humor of those living under the thumb of the totalitarian state is effective in protecting the proles from having their souls destroyed. It looks to me like the black humor isn't even, on balance, on our side. "I can see Russia from my front porch."

I remember the day that we learned that Sandy Berger had smuggled documents out of the Archives in his underwear. I made a point of watching Jay and Conan that night. Not a single joke about Berger's name sounding like Burgler. Good Lord, not a single joke about Berger's underwear!. Instead the only political joke over both shows was an incredibly lame joke about Bush confusing Lance Armstrong and Neil Armstrong, which would only be funny to people (like Conan's writers) too stupid to know that Bush is a rabid bicyclist.

[Anonamom]

I so hope those parents in Iowa have money in the bank to pay the fine for their children having toy guns. I didn't "allow " them; my oldest started making them out of Legos when he was not yet four.

Boys will be boys, and God bless them for that!

[Kettle Noir]

"You think that the black humor of those living under the thumb of the totalitarian state is effective in protecting the proles from having their souls destroyed.

You can't state that by anything he ACTUALLY wrote.

Why do people have to misstate or alter what someone said to make their point? I don't get it.