Back On The Border; What Price Compassion?

The new NBC poll has an interesting question on the border crisis, the gist of which is, should we protect these unaccompanied minors or would that just be too expensive:

So by 51-43 respondents think we can't afford to take this problem on. Hmm. That might explain the White House about-face on accelerated deportations. From the Times:

After declaring the surge of Central American migrants crossing the border a humanitarian crisis, the Obama administration has shifted sharply to a strategy of deterrence, moving families to isolated facilities and placing them on a fast track for deportation to send a blunt message back home that those caught entering illegally will not be permitted to stay.

It is interesting to watch the Times stagger home to reality on the question of whether Administration policy helped fuel this crisis:

Until recently, most families were released to remain in the United States while their deportation cases moved slowly through the courts. But that policy fueled rumors reaching Central America that if parents arrived with young children, they would be given permits to stay. To stop such talk, officials said, they are moving swiftly to expand family detention.

Times reporters grasped this quite a while back, as did other media outlets; Times editors have been dead-enders, clinging to the original Team Obama talking point that it was all about the violence in Central America even after the Administration had abandoned it.

Comments

[Threadkiller]

A police officer in Helmetta, New Jersey, is reportedly under investigation after he was caught on video telling a man that because President Barack Obama has “decimated” the Constitution, he no longer has to comply with the founding document.

The incident began as resident Steve Wronko brought a camera inside a municipal building while “investigating” alleged problems with the Helmetta Animal Shelter. A police officer, identified as Richard Recine, eventually stopped Wronko and demanded to know who he was and what he was doing filming in the building

The cop’s shocking comments came as Wronko repeatedly cited his First Amendment rights, saying the amendment permits him to video record in a public building without being suspected of committing a crime. He brought up various case case law while trying to convince the officer on the issue.

“Obama has decimated the friggin’ Constitution, so I don’t give a damn,” Officer Recine said. “Because if he doesn’t have to follow the Constitution, we don’t have to.”

“Did you get that?!” the stunned man asked the young teen reportedly recording the conversation.

“That’s the law of the land, you have to follow it,” Wronko told the cop.

“Then you tell [Obama] that,” Recine replies

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/06/cop-leaves-man-absolutely-stunned-with-comments-on-obama-and-the-constitution-did-you-get-that/

As the Founders intended.

[henry]

Daddy, don't even think it.

[daddy]

Bret: He came in at 06:14...

The panel unanimously did not buy the speech, especially in regard to Putin's action on the border of Ukraine.

We are on the sidelines watching Putin do whatever Putin wants to do.

He has no idea of what the role of the President of the United States of America is.

None.

[Stephanie]

Daddy, don't even think it.

And if I had to guess, I'd say 5 3" 280 lbs.

[Ignatz]

Maybe this will innoculate this thread;

[maryrose]

Bammy just likes the sound of his own voice. Hence the frequent use of I my and me. Pathetic. and clueless.

[Threadkiller]

Turns out Hannity's presence can ruin Greta's show as well as his own.

[Extraneus]

Bolton: US should become involved in stopping ISIS in Iraq

Appearing on "The Real Story," Bolton said, "the only thing that is going to stop this growth of terrorism -- as states deteriorate all over the Middle East -- is an American involvement, with a coalition of others, who understand that the terrorist threat – the threat of extremist Islam, remains and is growing. And our policy the past several months has been passivity in the face of ISIS in Iraq and a whole series of other crises that we see developing too."

The U.S. approach in Iraq has also raised concerns over what message is being sent around the world to other areas like Russia, where President Vladimir Putin is heightening tensions with the Ukraine by ordering retaliatory sanctions against the West.

"I think it sends a message that the United States is uninterested and disengaged," Bolton said. "Whatever minimal order and stability there is in the world, and there's not much, is because of the United States and its structure of alliances -- our projection of our influence. And over the past several years, the fact is we have withdrawn, turned inward, we've reduced our influence. And what's happening is that chaos is spreading, bit, by bit, by bit."

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

clinging to the original Team Obama talking point that it was all about the violence in Central America

So the plan is to let the violence & crap overrun our nation???
Too bad for lovely families in South Texas. YOU get gunned down & YOUR communities get taken over by people from other countries because this administration is too damned incompetent to enforce our laws.

"...killing Border Patrol agent Javier Vega Jr. in front of his wife and two kids and his parents Sunday night while they were fishing in Santa Monica, Sheriff Larry Spence told FoxNews.com."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/05/suspects-in-murder-border-patrol-agent-arrested-and-deported-numerous-times/

[narciso]

maybe I'll put up some links to Megan Markle's twitter,

it seems it's not a question of if but when Volodya will go from special war to all out
war

[Threadkiller]

Photographer David Slater battles Wikimedia over claims macaque monkey owns copyright to selfie

http://mobile.news.com.au/technology/online/photographer-david-slater-battles-wikimedia-over-claims-macaque-monkey-owns-copyright-to-selfie/story-fnjwmwrh-1227016020721

[DebinNC]

Tomorrow BOzo is going to Ft. Belvoir to use service members as props as he signs the vet bill Congress passed last week ... and then probably hit the links. Scheduled to arrive at MV on Sat. for his 16 day Aug. vacay.

[henry]

Vlad can digest Ukraine in 16 days.

[Beasts of England]

Consider me inoculated! And thanks...

[Stephanie]

George Bush, Queen Elizabeth, and Vladimir Putin all die and go to hell. While there, they spy a red phone and ask what the phone is for. The devil tells them it is for calling back to Earth.

Putin asks to call Russia and talks for 5 minutes. When he is finished the devil informs him that the cost is a million dollars, so Putin writes him a check.

Next Queen Elizabeth calls England and talks for 30 minutes. When she is finished the devil informs her that the cost is 6 million dollars, so she writes him a check.

Finally George Bush gets his turn and talks for 4 hours. When he is finished the devil informs him that the cost is $5.00.

When Putin hears this he goes ballistic and asks the devil why Bush got to call the USA so cheaply.

The devil smiles and replies: “Since obama took over, the country has gone to hell, so it’s a local call.”

[JiB]

Back from dinner. We left around 6:05 and the Champ wasn't there yet. I told Mrs. JiB he wanted to make sure The Five was disrupted.

He succeeded because he got Fournier instead of Beckel to be his BFF.

[Dave (in MA)]

So I flipped over to Bloomberg when Howie Carr's show ended at 6:51 (grrr) and heard a bit of the presser. I heard POSOTUS refer to "Abu Mazen". What's up with that? I thought people used his nom de guerre mostly as a pejorative.

[Beasts of England]

Rim salt shot, Steph! ;)

[Jim Miller]

Here's a practical solution to Obama's lateness problem from Tony Hillerman.

(Hillerman was a reporter before he became a novelist, so I think that solution is similar to solutions he had seen while working as a reporter. Incidentally, I like that particular detective story quite a bit, for the picture it gives you of the political reporters of that time.)

[Miss Marple]

This popped up on my Twitter feed.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/4/5955253/Hollywood-egypt-white-people-exodus-gods-and-kings?utm_content=buffer3f7fb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Headline is "Hollywood likes to pretend Egypt was full of white people." Pictures of Liz Taylor as Cleopatra, etc.

They really are morons.

[Ignatz]

Epic, meticulous take-down of Barry's lies on insurance company bailouts a-comin'; bout a billion bucks worth the first year.
No doubt Lizzy Warren is all in on sticking it to the big corporations by giving them taxpayer dollars to insure [heh] they don't lose money.

[Ignatz]

I want to know why 90% of the time Jesus and the disciples all have British accents.
Bloody imperialist limeys.

BTW, Miss Marple will you please take your place in the corner facing the wall for five minutes for linking Vox without a rotating light and siren? Thank you. :)

[Miss Marple]

Ignatz, sorry. I couldn't believe it! It was something like an 8th grader would write. A C student 8th grader.

(I would have put up a rotating siren if I knew how to do it.)

[Ignatz]

It's only been three minutes! No talking!

[Miss Marple]

Back in the olden days, when Ben-Hur came out, our grade school's 5th and 6th grade got to go see it at the big movie theater in downtown Indianapolis. We also all got souvenir programs (and I still have mine somewhere).

The program said that they deliberately chose British people to cast as the Romans and Americans and Israeli actors and actresses to play the Judeans.

The movies rarely cast anyone but British people as Romans, to this very day.

[Stephanie]

Oh holy snit. The hubs is watching America's Got Talent (ick) and they just had on as semi finalists two guys dancing salsa together. The taller guy was playing the 'girl.'

DOOM

[narciso]

well not in this crowd, Abu Mazen was the one who financed Munich, according to Abu Daoud,
one of the only Black September figures who
survived the 'Wrath of God' operation, hr made the decision to partner with Hamas,

[Danube on iPad]

I can still see the great Jack Hawkis grandly extending his arm toward the great city below him and intoning, "Rome!"

[narciso]

You put in the LUN, or as referred to another piece, but Vox is really too annoying for even
Graham Chapman to bother anymore,

Pointing out to the twit, that Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, aka Greek would be pointless, I think
Leonor Varela is Panamanian played her recently

[Danube on iPad]

"As the Founders intended."

Would you please say what the Founders did, or did not, intend about the incident described?

[narciso]

Questions you don't expect an answer to:

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2014/08/06/will-the-u-s-help-the-kurds-fight-isis/

[daddy]

Dennis Miller on O'Reilly sez that to help out with the drought in California men should quit growing lawns and should start growing beards.

[peter]

Totally OT, actually maybe not, because I haven't read the thread, but I have a technical question. I broke my smartphone, and don't feel like paying full price. My carrier (the one that starts with a V) is telling me that I can't get a discounted new phone until December, even if I renew my contract. If I buy an unlocked phone, what do I have to do to activate it?

[Threadkiller]

It was sarcasm, Danube.

If I were a betting man I would place my wager on the side that believes the Founders did not intend for a law enforcement officer to justify his unlawful behavior by reasoning that the CIC is lawless.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Verizon-Replacement-Phone-Activation-/10000000001211420/g.html

[narciso]

he's been too charitable:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/08/nrsc-rescued-pat-roberts-reports-politico/

[daddy]

Dennis Miller will probably get fired for this

but he just ran video of the 23 year old Sophia Loren climbing out of the water in the movie "Boy On A Dolphin", and I believe his point was that if you are a 12 year old boy watching that scene and you would prefer to have sex with the guy on the boat rather than Ms Loren, then you know you are gay.

Apparently I am not gay.

[Miss Marple]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/214546-obama-to-interrupt-vacation

Coming back to DC on August 17-19. No one seems to know why.

[narciso]

well how about that,

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/06/Anti-Amnesty-Candidate-Military-Vet-Siphoned-Votes-from-Milton-Wolf

I think they call that a litmus test.

[Stephanie]

Go Jason!

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/165167-libertarian-republican-justin-amash-defeats-big-business-backed-opponent-destroys-victory-speech/

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"Apparently I am not gay."

Because you are not a 12 year old boy?

[Ignatz]

--Dennis Miller on O'Reilly sez that to help out with the drought in California men should quit growing lawns and should start growing beards.--

I make my prediction now so it can be checked later.
In my experience as a lifelong CA native, a cool summer, as we're having, especially one with above average monsoon moisture, as we're having, usually results in early fall rain and then a dry winter.
We'll be in a fix if my prediction is right.

[Ignatz]

Any male of any age who would prefer any guy over Miss Loren, forgive my incorrectness, has something seriously wrong in his head.
Literally, a serious mental problem.

The head shrinkers used to agree with me until they decided to be correct in a way I refuse to be.

[Danube on iPad]

"I would place my wager on the side that believes the Founders did not intend for a law enforcement officer to justify his unlawful behavior by reasoning that the CIC is lawless."

I would place my wager - a very large one - on the Founders having no intentions one way or another about such an event. Their concern was with how power should be allocated among the congress, the executive, the judiciary and the citizens. Under the struture they established, this event would have been the exclusive concern of state (or local) government.

"As the Founders intended" seems to have become something of an all-purpose non sequitur. What they intended was a federal system in which untold millions of disputes and competing interests could be addressed and resolved. I'm quite certain that, as they intended, this one can and will be handled by the appropriate authorities.

[Ignatz]

And can I just say how proud I am of daddy for making amends for his previous....hmm, "lapses" I suppose is the polite term for it.

[Beasts of England]

Sophia appears to be very good with her hands...

[Ignatz]

I take TK's point to be a lawless President has consequences in encouraging lawless behavior by other, downstream, law enforcement personal, which seems a pretty logical and unexceptional observation.

[Dave (in MA)]

Click on it if it doesn't fit.

[JiB]

WH reporters like everyone else dependent on the Govt are dead end pussys.

BTW, good night.

[narciso]

And so it goes;

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-170-heavy-fighting-overnight-on-western-edge-of-donetsk/

[Danube on iPad]

I take TK's point to have nothing at all to do with the Founders' intent.

The Founders considered a number of ways to address a lawless presidency. Dealing with lawlesness at other levels was left to others.

[Jim Miller]

Kind of hard to believe that Sophia Loren was nicknamed "Stuzzicadenti" (Toothpick) when she was a kid.

[narciso]

just brutal ignorance,

http://therightscoop.com/obama-claims-palestinian-authority-has-recognized-israel-praises-mahmoud-abbas-as-sincere-for-peace/

[daddy]

As I read about these thousands of Mountain-top people in Iraq slowly dying of thirst, I vaguely recall President Bush 1 being forced to assist possibly the Kurds back around desert storm times by I believe RFK Jr or some other politicians from the Left. Anyone remember the particulars on that? Maybe also Somalia.

Reason I ask is because I hear nothing from the Left nowadays about us having to save any of these new folks being slaughtered over there, and I'd like to know who they are and why they aren't speaking up now.

Narciso...

[Ignatz]

Noah Rothman says voter ID is an inevitable tide.

[Threadkiller]

    "Towards the preservation of your government and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts. One method of assault may be to effect, in the forms of the Constitution, alterations which will impair the energy of the system, and thus to undermine what cannot be directly overthrown."

[narciso]

the Brits seem to have been behind Operation
Provide Confort, it was Peter Galbraith, as a Senate staffer, who made a big deal about the Anfal campaign, and Halabja in particular,

the networks primarily NBC made the big stink about Somalia, pushing for intervention,it was Misha Glenny in the New York Review of Books, who drove the drumbeat to get involved in Bosnia, and Christian Amanpour then at CNN

[Threadkiller]

Peter, my 8:48 was a link for you.

[narciso]

Bill Clinton pushed on the latter, and then sent Warren Christopher, to twiddle his thumbs,
one of his top aides, was Tom Donilon,

[daddy]

Thank you, Narciso.

OK. I'm off to listen to terrible talk radio. Later.

[narciso]

no good books, to read, some of those selections, seem quite painful

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/operation-provide-comfort

[cathyf]

I guess in NBC World, they don't care at all about the dangers that the children face getting here, and that it is evil to lure them here. And they don't care about the trafficked children -- the system that the Clinton and Bush Administration spent years setting up to protect them has been blown up in the Obamachaos.

To the pimps and coyotes, it's only about the money. Since NBC can't imagine any other issues, they must be pimps and coyotes, too, right?

[sbw]

Click on it if it doesn't fit

Click on what?

[Rick B]

Before we write "BOzo should do X.", shouldn't we determine what activates the Curse of Obama? I'm concerned about the Yezidi but I'm afraid that if BOzo actually does something they could all be dead within 24 hours.

[Jim Miller]

If you are interested in the effects of "top two" primaries, you can see some of them in Washington state's partial
election returns". (Votes are valid as long as they are postmarked the day of the election (Tuesday), so they don't even have all of the votes yet.)

Biggest example: In the 4th House district, there will be two Republicans on the ballot in November, and no Democrats.

For those interested in winners and losers: Republicans will probably gain a little in the state senate and house, so they will -- probably -- keep control of the senate and gain a little in the house.

Unfortunately, Pedro Celis will barely miss the cut in my 1st House district. I thought the odds were against him beating DelBene, and from what little I have seen of Sutherland, I would say he has even less chance.

[Danube on iPad]

Try as I might, I simply cannot determine what TK's 10:48 has to do with the Founders' intent regarding the incident with the cop.

Somehow I doubt that he will give a straightforward and concise explanation.

I respectfully suggest that there are uncountable occurrences daily throughout America that have nothing to do with the Founders' intent, and that it is idle to attempt to shoehorn every mundane matter into the framework of that intent.

[Rick B]

"it is evil to lure them here"

The real evil will be revealed when Congress slaps the "faith" groups with an audit which determines they were paying the coyotes to haul kids up. The coyotes are charging more than an average years income in Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala to haul a Gordito to the border and dump them.

The Gorditos aren't paying for the trip.

[Dave (in MA)]

Noah Rothman says voter ID is an inevitable tide.

Racist.

[Dave (in MA)]

Click on it if it doesn't fit

Click on what?

The picture. It's too wide, so if you click on it you'll see it all.
There's no image showing? Try this: http://s17.postimg.org/a0g6u2ue7/boyonadolphin.png

[narciso]

well about NBC, we're just haggling over price,
You know I was thinking 5-10 million work permits, issued in this climate, may not bt
the cunning, cunning plan, they were thinking about,

so there was a spoiler, actually two in Kansas, what are the odds

[Captain Hate]

As I read about these thousands of Mountain-top people in Iraq slowly dying of thirst, I vaguely recall President Bush 1 being forced to assist possibly the Kurds back around desert storm times by I believe RFK Jr or some other politicians from the Left. Anyone remember the particulars on that?

Didn't Bush I sell the Kurds out at the behest of Powell?

[Threadkiller]

What I doubt is whether you give a shit about any of my explanations.

I can accept that though, if for no other reason than to keep the peace between us.

[AliceH]

re: Voter ID Posted by: Ignatz | August 06, 2014 at 10:01 PM

My new retort to liberals claiming voter ID won't stop voter fraud that doesn't exist anyway:

"I'll believe Voter ID has no effect on election integrity when Liberals agree I should be allowed to use a utility bill to buy a gun."

[MarkO]

My youngest son was forced to leave this country... because of this Sollozzo business! Now I have to make arrangements to bring him home safely. But, if some unfortunate accident might befall him. Or if he gets shot in the head by a police officer... Or if he gets struck by a bolt of lightning, I'm going to balme some of the people in this room! And that I do not forgive.

But, that aside, I assure that I will not be the one to break the peace we have made here today.

[Danube on iPad]

"whether you give a shit about any of my explanations."

Give me one and I'll let you know.

[Threadkiller]

Nice try.

[MarkO]

Internecine bloodletting, pat. pend

[jimmyk]

The picture.

I thought sbw was making a joke, and I was going to say something like "You have two choices." But then I got distracted by the awful baseball game.

[Ignatz]

It has a shorter lifespan than a Gaza cease fire.

What is a JOM one, Alex?

[narciso]

well he shot a dirty cop, who was in the pay of the Solozzos, it's kind of curious how the Mob's influence in Cuba, is used as the rationalization for why Batista had to go,

a Castro zampolit, named Cirules, has provided most of the sludge, that the likes of TJ English recycled, as Fontova points out with 175 citations,

[Danube on iPad]

I repeat: Give me one and I'll let you know.

But as everyone already knows, none will be forthcoming. None ever is.

[Threadkiller]

Everyone knows except you, I guess.

But you persist. With an insulting tone I might add.

Didn't you accept our new accord?

[Janet - the districts lie fallow, while the Capitol gorges itself]

You 2 make JOM almost unreadable...like entering a room with 2 Jr. High age girls being drama queens. Bickering, taunting,...
It gets really old.

[Threadkiller]

Goodnight Janet.

[Threadkiller]

Goodnight all.

[AliceH]

This is pretty good: http://calwatchdog.com/2012/05/15/bullet-trains-green-jobs-and-the-war-between-data-and-storytelling/

Includes this quote from “The Escape Artists: How Obama’s Team Fumbled the Recovery,” Noam Scheiber’s new book about economics policy-making in the Obama administration:

In December [2008], the economic team dutifully prepared a list of drab but high-bang-for-your-buck outlays to [Rahm] Emanuel. The list included … $20 billion to repair existing roads and bridges, $5 billion to repair public housing units and another $5 billion to upgrade sewage treatment facilities. …

“Emanuel’s brother, Ezekiel, a doctor who was joining the administration as a health care adviser, happened to be staying with the future chief of staff when the list arrived via fax. “There’s nothing that really gets my heart racing,” the brother later complained. “What would get your heart racing?” Rahm Emanuel asked glumly. “I don’t know. How about high-speed rail — getting from New York to D.C. in 90 minutes?” Within days, some $20 billion in high-speed rail investments had immaculately materialized on the list.

Sweet dreams, all.

[Extraneus]

A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions.

The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/07/millions-uninsured-americans-exempt-from-obamacare-penalties-in-2016-watchdog/

[Another Bob]

rse, what would you think of a state ed department that as a matter of policy does a "delete and cleanse" of their email DAILY? And their reasoning is "I couldn't possibly store all my emails".

Nah, it's all innocent and there's nothing they're trying to hide from the public.

It is somewhat more original than a couple dozen "hard drive crashes" coincidentally occurring a few weeks apart.

[Another Bob]

Oh, LUN.

[Beasts of England]

I threatened to tell my ex-wife about this site if the bickering continued unabated. I'm warning y'all. She's never lost an argument. And she's a fun-sucker, too. No more fun of any kind!™

[Beasts of England]

Happy PGA Championship Thursday! Tiger is going to tee it up. Silly boy...

[henry]

This is disturbing. A local town raises real estate taxes on homeowners who do not consent to a search of their home's interiors. (Note, my farm has a 3/4 mile border with the town in question -- maybe I should patrol that border).

[Marlene]

Morning.Another northern Maine border story...a Rwandan man wanted on a warrant in Canada was arrested in Houlton,ME. A citizen reported a suspicious person walking near the international boundary.He was arrested and taken into custody in violation of entry without inspection. He is wanted in Canada for violating human rights under international law. The coyotes and drug cartels are violating human rights every day on the southern border. The northern border patrol is able to concentrate efforts on one person.

[Bori]

It not just amateur hour, is that they hear and believe what they want to. They filter everything else.

Obama claims Palestinian Authority has recognized Israel, praises Mahmoud Abbas as ‘sincere for peace’

http://tinyurl.com/lfat4bg

[Beasts of England]

Crazy article, henry. I'd say it's time to deploy a certain trebuchet to your border! ;)

[Another Bob]

Henry, when we lived in a "neighboring" state, we also received a "request" to permit a county assessor into our home for an "inspection". The language of the letter was ambiguous regarding whether it was some sort of mandatory thing. Since nothing good for me would result, I round filed the letter and quietly awaited developments.

Our assessment went up, but not by a suspicious amount. But I never checked to see it ours was out of line relative to the neighbors.

I'm skeptical if the "no appeal" claim.

[Beasts of England]

Why would an inspector need to come inside? If you've made substantive value-added upgrades to the property, wouldn't you need a building permit for such? Wouldn't they have a record of that for appraisal purposes? Screw letting someone in my dwellings. Not gonna happen.

[henry]

Beasts, the trebuchet can reach the border from my command bunker house, as can other 2A thingies. ; )

[Jack is Back!]

Woke this AM to 3 deer in our backyard where we have 2 apple trees. They saw us approach (Mrs. JiB has great closeups since she has a real camera:). They then walked toward us to leave by a section of 6' high fence and hedgerow. They did it with ease. We are now allowed 8' high fencing because of the deer nuisance.

They eat all Mrs. JiB's Lily's and other flowers. She is not amused.

Of with Frederick to Tennis Camp.

[NKLoggin'IN?]

Last Night -- The Sophia Loren Gay test? 23 yo (or 73 yo) Sophia Loren would straighten out Andy Sullivan if she had about 10 minutes lead time. That's no test at all.