Wages Stagnate, The Rich Get Richer, And The Times Cheerleads!

Jackie Calmes of the Times takes her paper's endless push for immigration "reform" to an analysis of Republican plans for regime change:

Economists See Limited Gains in G.O.P. Plan

WASHINGTON — Anticipating a takeover of Congress, Republicans have assembled an economic agenda that reflects their small-government, antiregulation philosophy, but also suggests internal divisions that could hinder a united front against President Obama — much as happened in the 1990s, when a Republican-led Congress confronted President Bill Clinton.

The proposals would mainly benefit energy industries, reduce taxes and regulations for businesses generally, and continue the attack on the Affordable Care Act. It is a mix that leaves many economists, including several conservatives, underwhelmed.

Yeah, yeah - conservatives are disappointed that they aren't going big and liberals hate it because they are liberals. So whatever. 

So what is the Republican goal?

With the prospect of Republicans’ winning control of the Senate and maintaining control of the House in the midterm elections, interest is rising over what they would do to address what polls show is voters’ top concern: economic growth and jobs.

Speaker John A. Boehner has been promoting a roster of 46 House-passed jobs bills that Republicans say could finally make it to Mr. Obama’s desk if voters put them in charge of the Senate for the first time in the president’s tenure. On Twitter, Mr. Boehner’s hashtag for the initiatives is #StuckInTheSenate.

Polls say "growth and jobs"; Boehner's bills say "jobs". So what does the Times say? Gosh this is suspenseful!

Missing from both Republican lists are two pillars of Mr. Obama’s agenda that many economists consider important for expanding the labor force and promoting long-run growth.

One is significantly higher spending for infrastructure. The International Monetary Fund recently called for such spending, saying it would pay off in broader economic growth.

 

More big government spending on infrastructure! Let's literally build a bridge to the future. As one of Nate Silver's 538er's points out, most infrastructure spending (including most transportation spending) occurs at the state level - e.g., the feds have provided a bridge loan to temporarily finance the new Tappan Zee bridge but eventually the locals will, or won't, pay for it. And of course, Republicans pay lip service to being federalists, so they might not gravitate to big Federal giveaways.

Let's move on to the other pillar of Obama's agenda, which somehow has not become part of the Republican agenda:

The other is an overhaul of immigration laws. Despite business pressure to provide a path to citizenship for the millions here illegally, and to admit more foreigners with skills, Republicans’ opposition has only hardened in this campaign. A bipartisan Senate-passed bill on immigration would increase economic growth by 3.3 percent in a decade and save $175 billion by then, the Congressional Budget Office estimated.

What else did the CBO say about the Senate bill?

CBO’s central estimates also show that average wages for the entire labor force would be 0.1 percent lower in 2023 and 0.5 percent higher in 2033 under the legislation than under current law. Average wages would be slightly lower than under current law through 2024, primarily because the amount of capital available to workers would not increase as rapidly as the number of workers and because the new workers would be less skilled and have lower wages, on average, than the labor force under current law. However, the rate of return on capital would be higher under the legislation than under current law throughout the next two decades.

So stagnant wages for workers but a better return to owners of capital - the rich get richer and the rest of us get, well, the warm glow that comes from being a responsible citizen of the world. And the thrill of sticking it to the dominant white patriarchy by letting them earn more on their ill-gotten wealth while paying workers less, pending their overthrow.

Even Paul Krugman has admitted that the immigration project isn't helping working class and unskilled wages. When will the Times notice?

WITH ENOUGH PROGRESSIVE PROFS LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT ANSWER... Per Brookings, we learn that a 2012 study found that waving in more unskilled workers raises the wages of even the unskilled, so now we know. No more studies! And no more common sense!

Comments

[Jeff Dobbs]

I swear I read the post before commenting.

[Threadkiller]

Happy Birthday, Bori!

Now off to read hit's comment.

[NKreBootDeux]

Uh-- TomM-- you didn't point out that the NYT left out the THIRD PILLAR ofObummer's evil plans... Tax Increases ON THE RICH. We got those in 2009 and 2010 and 2012, where is massive prosperity that Obummer, the NYT and Krugman all promised?

[henry]

Conflating anything Obama is doing with economic growth requires eating cookies from Colorado.

[James D.]

How on Earth does the CBO figure that bringing in several million people, most of whom will be low-skill and unwilling to assimilate on any meaningful level into our culture, many of whom will require public assistance, and a majority of whom will be seeding money back to their country of origin, will produce any economic growth at all?

[rich@gmu]

It is as if Eric Cantor's defeat never even happened.

and weird didn't we beat this nag into glue yesterday?

[James D.]

And how can anyone with a straight face discuss CBO projections of wage levels and growth 19 years from now, when we can't accurately predict GDP growth for the next quarter, or produce accurate economic statistics for months or quarters that have already passed by?

[NKreBootDeux]

spot on henry. Gov't does virtually nothing to create general societal wealth and prosperity (although it makes specific cronies very wealthy) gov't can facilitate wealth creation by protecting property and contract rights, and providing general infrastructure and national standards for commercial activity. To increase wages and job creation, take away the taxes on wages and jobs created by ObummerCare. Removing that impediment alone will increase wages and jobs. Then abolish the tax code and write a simple program that raises 18-20% of GDP in taxes (sorry ThomasC) and repatriate corporate profits by dropping the corporate rates (how about 0%) and cut spending to 20% of GDP. Do those things and GDP and jobs will respond. Classical Conservative rant over.

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: James D. | October 23, 2014 at 10:14 AM -

A physicist, a chemist and an economist are stranded on an island, with nothing to eat. A can of soup washes ashore. The physicist says, "Let's smash the can open with a rock." The chemist says, "Let's build a fire and heat the can first." The economist says, "Let's assume that we have a can-opener..."

[James D.]

And regardless of culture, language or anything else, how in the world will importing millions of new low-skill workers increase wages for existing low-skill workers? Especially when the imported workers will have less ability to push back for higher wages than the already-existing workers (because they'll be less established, have less community and family ties in this country, etc)? And when increasing automation is reducing the need for low-skill workers in the first place? Adding ever-more workers to compete for ever-fewer jobs does not seem to me to be a recipe for increased wages, but I suppose I'm just not smart enough to work for Brookings or the NYT.

[fdcol63]

" ... waving in more unskilled workers raises the wages of even the unskilled ..."

That contradicts every "supply and demand" graph that I learned in my Macroeconomics and Microeconomics classes.

[Miss Marple]

TK,

Left you a note at the end of the last thread about the repairs. Do not worry, I am not being cheated. Thank you for your concern, though.

[rich@gmu]

reverse the supply and demand curve ... problem solved.

[RickB]

"will produce any economic growth at all?"

James D.,

The CBO doesn't handle double entry bookkeeping very well. The premise is that every added body will require shelter, food and clothing, so the "economy" must "grow" by X with each additional mouth. The other side of the ledger remains blank.

No one can claim the CBO has ever had any particular contact with reality. Any cursory examination of their previous forecasts, estimates and projections with comparison to actual outcomes would make such a claim risible to anyone but Paul Krugman and NYT subscribers.

[Iggy]

With labor participation rates at historic lows and the unemployment rate artificially suppressed because of it, how can importing "workers" possibly be needed?

After a trillion bucks in shovel ready stimulus left us with historically low labor participation rates and an unemployment rate artificially supprresed because of it, how can spending on infrastructure possibly be expected to improve the economy?

With the IMF regularly lambasted by Kruggy and other libs for promoting harmful and economy crushing policies how can any prog possibly expect following its policies to work?

[NKreBootDeux]

James-- you are using facts and logic. The immigration stuff and al of the Progs stuff is about political power for the Prog Elites, including the NYT. They invent these narratives to facilitate their evil plans. Facts and logic have nothing to do with it.

Danny Boy Malloy calls himself a 'porcupine', actually he's a drunken imbecile, so... http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/dems-dire-situation-connecticut_816989.html

[rich@gmu]

from the Brookings study:

>>>In the data-preferred model, a small but significant degree of imperfect substitutability between natives and immigrants and the other estimated elasticities imply that in the period from 1990 to 2006 immigration had a very small effect on the wages of native workers with no high school degree (between −0.1% and +0.6%). It also had a small positive effect on average native wages (+0.6%) and a substantial negative effect (−6%) on wages of previous immigrants in the long run.<<<

[Beasts of England]

Happy Birthday, Bori!

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: Iggy | October 23, 2014 at 10:32 AM-

they will be doing it smartly this time ... with data.

[glasater]

Japan did the 'infrastructure' gig/gag for years and it has done squat for their economy.

What helps our economy is the government quit spending our tax dollars. And per NK's suggestion cutting the corporate tax rate...also per Kudlow :-)

[clarice]

HB, Bori!!

[rich@gmu]

>>>Despite the environmental regulations that Republicans want to soften or end, the energy industry is booming<<<

because of drilling on private land in North Dakota and Texas. The Zero Administration has wanted to put through a number of taxes on the oil and gas industry since his administration started and given the choice his administration would curtail fracking just because.

[glasater]

¸¸.•*¨*•♫♪ ░H░A░P░P░Y░ Birthday (¯''•.¸*Bori* ¸.•''¯)

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: glasater | October 23, 2014 at 10:40 AM-

They've also perfected ZIRP which ballooned their debt and shrank their capital markets.

[Old Lurker]

"we are going to TAKE those profits and reinvest them in..."

Hilary 2016

[NKreBootDeux]

So James REALLY doesn't like spiders, and OL REALLY doesn't like...

[Beasts of England]

@rich: your economist character forgot to say ceteris paribus before assuming that can opener. ;)

[Iggy]

Is there anything more one needs to know regarding the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the left than its silence or attempts to shift the blame over the declining income of the middle class and the soaring concentration of Fed manufactured wealth in the upper classes during Barack the Benighted's reign?

Why, it's almost like they know their policies will lead to exactly the opposite of what they proclaim they stand for.

[Old Lurker]

...and OL doesn't like much about government these days either.

To Rick's comment about CBO reliability, I'm not even going to link to three relevant stories just today:

WaPo "USIA whistleblowers report their own IG pulled key parts of their reports on misconduct..."

NYPost: "Census whistleblowers document fabrications in their reports..."

Drudge: "The (Weather Channel Founder guy) PROVES the AGW fraud using the governments own data..."

and the day is young.

[glasater]

Well, that too, rich :)

[rich@gmu]

lol ... ceteris paribus, assume a can opener.

>>>Nevertheless, to remain as consistent as possible with the estimating
rules CBO and JCT follow for almost all other legislation, the cost estimate for S. 744 does not incorporate the budgetary impact of every economic consequence of the bill.<<<

>>>The supply of labor in the economy would increase primarily because the legislation would loosen or eliminate annual limits on various categories of permanent and temporary immigration. Enacting the bill would, in CBO’s view, increase the U.S. population by about 10 million people (about 3 percent) in 2023 and by about 16 million people (about 4 percent) in 2033.<<<

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[henry]

GMax: a message from Chicago re polls in IL--

The Chicago Tribune hasn't called an election accurately for the GOP since Dewey.

oh, wait. And that early voting extension in Cook, Madison, and St Clair (the last two are E. St. Louis) Counties, only, won't have any impact either. If in the remotest chance this happens, I [the lurker] will personally drive a bottle of locally distiller vodka to his office. Place it on his desk, bow from my knees, and leave.

I feel comfortable in believing my car won"t be crossing the Ohio River any time soon.

-- end message.

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: Iggy | October 23, 2014 at 10:52 AM -

It will all end in tears. Probably not for them, but in tears nonetheless.

[Old Lurker]

...and yes, while I am hopeful about the election I simply assume they will steal just enough votes where needed to keep their con game going. It used to be crooks knew they were crooks but behaved badly anyway. Not anymore.

O'Keefe's video of those girls in CO gleefully supporting ballot stealing ("it's not even stealing or lying..."), and the other video yesterday showing that guy somewhere else stuffing hundreds off mail ballots into boxes, and Fox's video of the NEA types busing up to WI to bury Walker are all just further signs of how deep the hole is.

These crooks actually think they are morally right.

[Jeff Dobbs]

If you have poor workers who feels underpaid and underappreciated, you really need to import poorer and less skilled workers to make him feel better about himself. Relative to the overall population of workers, his skills are now higher on average.

It's kinda like Obama in the White House. He feels "not that smart" and underappreciated, so he goes and hires a bunch of really, really stupid cabinet members, who in turn hire really, really, really imecilic spokespersons and staffers, and voila, Obama feels like, relative to his overall staff, his not-that-smartedness is less not that smart.

Everybody's a winner.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Forget subject-verb disagreement, I have trouble with subject-subject disagreement in my own sentences.

The subjects are revolting.

[Old Lurker]

Hit, the solution is to never read your own posts. It will just make you crazy.

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: glasater | October 23, 2014 at 10:58 AM -

Here is the Heritage take on Japan's infrastructure build out ...

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/12/learning-from-japan-infrastructure-spending-wont-boost-the-economy

They have also pledged to do some more of the same.

[NKreBootDeux]

OL @11:06 pinpoints what others here have noted. today's Progs are so corrupt, they don't believe they are corrupt. And their narrative is so indoctrinated into their kiddie foot soldiers, that they don't consider crimes as wrong, so long as they serve the narrative. Today's Progs will become Orwell's nightmare if they steal a monopoly of power nationwide as they have in SF, NYC and ChiTown.

[Old Lurker]

NK, I saw video of those SF protesters yesterday...the line that got me was "Yay yay! Welcome to the Revolution!"

Mind you every person shown in my 11:06 rants and the SF video appeared to be white, middle class, and educated.

[NKreBootDeux]

OL@ 11:19-- there are different levels of 'free shit', like $100K do nothing government jobs with lifetime pensions and healthcare. There are your 'revolutionaries' right there.

[jimmyk]

So stagnant wages for workers but a better return to owners of capital

First, the issue could be framed as the impact on existing wages, as opposed to just looking at average wages. This is not to be read as opening the floodgates for cheap labor, but if unskilled immigrants come in and earn $8/hour, of course average wages will fall, but that decline vastly exaggerates the impact on existing workers' wages. (They will not get pushed down to $8, because they are more skilled.)

Second, I'm not sure the return to capital goes up much: Workers are paid according to their productivity. Businesses hire a bunch of $8/hr workers in the expectation they'll get $8/hr worth of revenues from them. For the most part (like 99%) it's not taking from existing workers, it's adding new $8/hr jobs.

The compelling reasons for restricting immigration is because of our welfare system (Friedman's quote about open borders and the welfare state being incompatible), especially because the welfare state turns those immigrants into Democrats.

[jimmyk]

What helps our economy is the government quit spending our tax dollars.

That's what bugs me about Boehner and his constant mantra of "jobs bills." The idea that jobs get created because of bills passed in Washington is the wrong message. Unless those bills are to eliminate spending and regulations, they aren't "jobs bills."

[GMax]

as I have said, if Eastern Time Zone elections are going as I anticipate even if Illinois is withstanding, I will very much appreciate it if my JOM friends would not enable my extremely bad habits. Alcohol poisoning could result from all the good wishes from just Rich and Melinda for gosh sakes...

[matt]

I would ask those same economists what, exactly, Obama's trillions of dollars in "investment" has yielded to date.

[GMax]

Sweet Dreams and Flying Machines in Pieces on the Ground:

South Dakota Senate

Public Opinion Strategies

Rounds-48%
Weiland-24%
Pressler-16%

Great Democrat hope white hot and smoldering...

[NKreBootDeux]

$8T in debt to crush our kids and grandkids?

[Beasts of England]

As P.J. O'Rourke said in one of his books - there are people out there who think that jobs are created when Washington rubs the magic genie bottle.

I see it in blog comments: 'Republicans have blocked the jobs bill to try and sabotage the economy!' Ugh.

[fdcol63]

Didn't you read the NYT story the other day, matt?

The stimulous "saved or created" millions of jobs and prevented the economy from a total collapse.

/end sarcasm

[centralcal]

Late to the party! HAPPY BIRTHDAY BORI!!! (I am so glad you shortened your name from boricuafud or whatever the heck it used to be! See how quickly Bori caught on!)

[James D.]

In honor of MM's bathroom repairs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1slibJ52yoc

[NKreBootDeux]

bori = cool handle

[Old Lurker]

Except for the phony (free money fed) run up in stock prices, I'm not sure where capital has earned much of a return for a long time now. Particularly if you filter out the slicing and dicing (derivatives etc) that can in shell game fashion move yields around from one tranche to another while losing sight of which slice gets the risk, and which gets the reward.

[Captain Hate]

That's what bugs me about Boehner and his constant mantra of "jobs bills." The idea that jobs get created because of bills passed in Washington is the wrong message. Unless those bills are to eliminate spending and regulations, they aren't "jobs bills."

My disillusionment with the GOP and it's incestuous relationship with Wall Street is nearly 100%. I used to think that these guys knew WTF they were talking about regarding the economy but the party of Reagan has become the party of crony capitalism.

[sbw]

I want to remind all JOMers how much I relish and appreciate your exchange of ideas. It helps me flesh out my thoughts and, eventually, my editorials.

I freely, gratefully, and often credit JOMers individually and collectively, but sometimes I mangle the thoughts together so much the individual credit is impossible. For that I apologize.

[Old Lurker]

What Jimmy said at 11:28...

[NKreBootDeux]

OL-- your real estate side is showing.Capital investments in Fracking, social media apps, even railroads have paid many handsome returns to many investors (granted the low cost of funds helped the ROI). Unfortunately, lobbying investment pays off too well for cronies.

[fdcol63]

What CH said at 11:46 ...

[sbw]

CH: <My disillusionment with the GOP and it's incestuous relationship with Wall Street is nearly 100%.

Wait! What? You mean both parties favor crony capitalism?

[peter]

that was a major tell, wasn't it fdcol63? those silly slogans trump logic if you say them often enough, but wait a couple of years and they just sound stupid. Bush lied, thousands died, did its damage, and wasn't "fisked" until eight years too late. I remember watching one of the Dem national conventions, think it was 96 and every speaker said "the Republicans want social security to wither on the vine" thus effectively killing reform for the next twenty years. Now they just print money, so the vine isn't withered, just a little, "airier?"

[Extraneus]

They invent these narratives to facilitate their evil plans. Facts and logic have nothing to do with it.

Right on, NK.

Global warming... Keynesian economics... All just b.s., invented by their real leaders and lapped up by their idiot followers.

[Old Lurker]

"(granted the low cost of funds helped the ROI)"

Exactly making my point, NK. "low cost of funds" simply means the owners of that slice of the capital get squat while the owners of the slice which leverage on that free money get nice returns. History proves that that worm will turn some day.

Even in real estate, I can buy a plain vanilla income property for all cash and earn a mid single digit return. Then I could borrow against that for a phony low rate first mortgage and so long as the loan rate is lower than the going in cap rate, my return on my net cash invested is leveraged nicely into double digits maybe. Until the borrowed capital reverts in cost to "real" levels, that is...

[NKreBootDeux]

OL-- this part I agree with. You give a real world explanation * of the trap created by the Fed's ZIRP and QE. QE is obviously the greater danger because it directly creates artificial asset bubbles in specific asset classes, while ZIRP does so indirectly in broader assets in the manner you laid out.

Dear All-- please pay attention to OL as he knows what he's talking about. That is all.

[GMax]

Lets look at sample size ( larger sample reduces the MOE ) and recent polls in NH:

Sample size -> result
322 -> Shaheen +3 (UMass)
500 -> Shaheen +3 (Suffolk)
600 -> Shaheen +1 (ARG)
645 -> Shaheen +2 (CNN)
921 -> Brown +1 (NEC)

HMMMM if Scotty Centerfold loses it will be by an eyelash, but the trend is clearly in his favor and he closes well.

[Janet]

I was polled last week by Quinnipiac. I keep looking for the results....none yet.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/

The last Virginia results were from Sept.

[Stephanie accidentally OnT?]

Happy Birthday, bori!

[Man Tran on old iPhone]

jimmyk from last night:

Another anecdote and then I'll stop. An acquaintance was taking some higher math in a class aimed at non-conventional students--sort of continuing education, part-time, etc. The Americans were working very hard, while the foreigners were completely bored, sitting at the back not paying attention. But the foreigners got the top grades--they'd all had the math already in their native country, they just needed the credential.

Those are almost verbatim words from our DIL, who, in her mid-40s went back to school and was required to take a 'refresher' math class. The class was absurdly out of place for her pursuit, but the foreign students (the only ones remaining, except her) were still sleeping through it.

[Old Lurker]

Hey New Yorkers....

If the kids' schedules are as complicated as they seem they will be, Mrs. OL and I might have to take our traditional family Thanksgiving dinner to NYC instead of home.

Any ideas where we might reserve a "traditional family Thanksgiving dinner" for 10-12 in the city? Am I already too late?

[hrtshpdbox]

I saw something on Fox News recently, a penal that might have included Pat Caddell (can't remember), and the participants all agreed that the GOP is squandering an opportunity by not running national ads that emphasize how a vote for GOP candidates will help neutralize Obama policies. Seems like a good overall message to me, in terms of gotv. The reason there are no such ads, the panel agreed, and this is horrifying to me, is that consultants make less money on ads like that. I do believe they quoted consultants getting something like a 15% fee on a targeted ad buy (i.e. they spend a million dollars on a statewide ad and pocket a cool 150k for their efforts). If all this is true, it's very disturbing.

[hrtshpdbox]

A panel, not a penal, for crissakes.

[Old Lurker]

Pretty much explains the Bush years, huh?

"Nicolle Wallace, former Communications Director for President George W. Bush and current co-host of the View, appeared on the syndicated show Wendy Wednesday afternoon to talk about her new gig as well as her career in Republican politics. During the interview, Wallace, who spends much of her time criticizing her fellow Republicans, endorsed the idea of Hillary Clinton running for president in 2016. The former Bush staffer declared that she was a “huge fan of the idea of a Hillary Clinton candidacy.”

[NKreBootDeux]

OL-- I have never done restaurant Thanksgiving, but I'd always recommend 'One if by Land' http://www.oneifbyland.com/, and a second place I've never been to is 'Friend of a Farmer' but based on its rep may be good for Thanksgiving: http://www.friendofafarmerny.com/

Farmer is on Irving Place, near where I went to HS and where my mother lived in a tenement during the depression.

[Old Lurker]

And this pretty much explains why sucking up to the MSM (hiring somebody you shouldn't just because it looks good you think) can bite you in the butt: "Ray Rice eyes a return to the NFL—and now the former Raven looks to cash in, as well. The running back filed a grievance against the Ravens for wrongful termination of his $3.5 million contract."

[Old Lurker]

Thanks NK.

[narciso]

ah don't get me started on 'Norma Desmond', as for Wendy!!! a growth tank for LIV's bloodworms,

[NKreBootDeux]

ahh.. Friend of Farmer has a thanksgiving menu. yum..

[hrtshpdbox]

I had a splendid meal at One If By Land, Two If By Sea in 1982. I'll bet the place hasn't changed one bit since then (I'd hope not, anyway).

[Old Lurker]

Just looked at it!

[narciso]

Speaking of Scams, this week's PoI, broached a scenario not unlike the ORCA fiasco, or was it
a fiasco,

[Jeff Dobbs]

hrtshpdbox:
A panel, not a penal

I suggest all you filthy-minded cretins out there who see those words and giggle because your first thought was "penile" . . . blame Miss Marple.

Because that is what happens when JOM starts the day with toilet humor.

And don't even try to deny that that's exactly what you're thinking about right now.

[Man Tran on old iPhone]

Stepping into Jim Miller's realm, I received this from a friend this morning:

Estate Consequences I-594 is a spouse's nightmare --

· Initiative 594, page 13, requires that upon the death of a firearm owner, the spouse has 60 days to take all of the deceased spouse’s firearms to a dealer in order for the dealer to perform a background check on the heir. If this doesn't occur, the heir is non-compliant with the law.

o Page 15 states that an individual will be prosecuted on a weapons felony charge for each firearm that is in non-compliance. (If the estate involves 5 firearms, they can be prosecuted 5 times!)

· In many cases, the spouse is not the executor of the estate; the executor is often a relative or trusted friend. Regardless, the executor has only 2 months to transfer ownership of the firearms. This is an unrealistic requirement for a grieving spouse who has to deal with medical bills, grief, stress, and possibly a move. In many estates, the firearms take a back seat and don’t get addressed for several years.

· If the surviving spouse or executor takes the firearms to the dealer and, for whatever reason, doesn't pass the background check, I-594 requires the dealer to confiscate the firearms. I-594 contains no information on how long the dealer can keep the firearms or whether they can then be sold.

· Page 10 says if the firearms are being transferred to an out-of-state resident, that person is required to wait 60 days to take possession of the firearms. Again, whoever takes possession of the firearms is subject to a personal background check. If they don't pass the background check, the firearms must be confiscated by the dealer -- by law.

Breathtaking...

[hrtshpdbox]

H&R, there's no denying my mistaken insertion of penal there; it was an unintended penal implant (like when the wrong guy is sent up the river for a crime he didn't commit).

[GMax]

I got yur penal hanging here bud...

[clarice]

Take them with you.Have your firearms buried with you and save your survivors a lot of trouble.

[lyle]

Is that a WA law, MT?

[lyle]

Nicole Wallace can eat shit.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/an-affair-to-remember-1414018811

[GMax]

Bloomberg has an article about the coming blame game and its not pretty here is but a taste:

Democrats say they appreciate Obama's decision to avoid campaigning in competitive states. But that doesn't do much to soften frustration with what they describe as near-political malpractice by the White House, basic missteps that some blame on an insular president who they say takes advice from aides with little campaign experience. “Folks are beginning to scapegoat and second guess, but there are plenty of reasons to do that,” said strategist Jim Manley, a former aide to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. “President Obama doesn't like to get his hands dirty. He seemingly floats above it all.”

[peter]

old lurker go to a website called chowhound and then go to their manhattan "board" then type in thanksgiving. There will be excellent suggestions from New York's most knowledgeable foodies. Actually a surprisingly large number of restaurants do Thanksgiving.

[maryd]

GMAX @ 12:07: Thanks so much for the New Hampshire polling information.

More fun with Queen Jeanne:
1) She lied in this week's debate about the fact that she has campaigned again nuclear power in the past, and has gotten caught. They will be debating again tonight, so I hope Scott calls her on it.
2)She made the news by having an accredited Breitbart congressional correspondent kicked out of a session at a local manufacturer. All other reporters were left alone. I guess when you're in the shape she is, every one looks like James O'Keeffe.

[clarice]

I remember Wallace more for her knifing of Palin while she worked for McCain than for anything she did in the Bush WH.

[lyle]

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/221603-can-lewinsky-make-a-difference

So Monica is coming out against cyber-bullying. I guess be bullied by Sid Vicious, Bill and Shrill, and damn near the entire DC press corpse is just A-okay.

[hrtshpdbox]

Clarice, Wallace (and Steve Schmidt) were a disgrace. Amazing that McCain could pick such a great VP candidate and then squander her like that.

[NKreBootDeux]

OL-- BTW, do you plan to take the family to Thanksgiving Dinner by subway? ;-)

[Man Tran on old iPhone]

Lyle, it's on our WA ballot. Hope the progs in King county don't buy into it.

[Old Lurker]

If you guys don't clean up you penile vs penal vs panal confusion, then I will have to ask Beasts if his 10:50 "ceteris paribus" had something to do with G Spots?

ducking again.

[lyle]

Good luck, MT. King county progs are insane, though.

[lyle]

Funny. The MFM just isn't too interested in the elections in 11 days. Can you think of any reasons why? Puzzling...

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/10/22/what-election-network-news-gives-up-on-covering-midterms/

[James D.]

Nicole Wallace can eat shit.

That's about the kindest thing I can imagine to say about her...

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"OL-- BTW, do you plan to take the family to Thanksgiving Dinner by subway? ;-)"

Hopefully not AT Subway. Incidentally, the MTA waitresses and masseuses may have Thanksgiving off.

Seriously, I can't add to previous recommendations, having never done TG dinner at a restaurant or knowing anyone who has (not that there's anything wrong with it :)).

[clarice]

OL, I don't think this is particularly traditional but this restaurant is warm and welcoming and the food is great. And I think the first settlers would have eaten Italian had they known better.http://www.felidia-nyc.com/about-us/ You might call and see if they are doing any special for Thanksgiving.