If You Were An Early Reader Of the WaPo UVA Rape Expose...

Jackie UP, Rolling Stone further DOWN. If you were an early reader of the Washington Post UVA rape expose exonerating Phi Kappa Psi I am begging you to go back and re-read it; despite the absence of any hints such as "UPDATED", majors news corroborating the notion of a group sex assault has been inserted into the original story at the original link. Presumably all for the Saturday Dead Tree readers, and I question that business model.

Conversely, if you are a late reader of the current WaPo version you might wonder why people seem to be talking about two different stories.

Here is the fourth paragraph I excerpted Friday afternoon:

A group of Jackie’s close friends, who are sex assault awareness advocates at U-Va., said they believe something traumatic happened to Jackie but have come to doubt her account. They said details have changed over time, and they have not been able to verify key points of the story in recent days. A name of an alleged attacker that Jackie provided to them for the first time this week, for example, turned out to be similar to the name of a student who belongs to a different fraternity, and no one by that name has been a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

And brace yourself for the current version, which has undergone a Sweet Jiminy revision (my emphasis):

A group of Jackie’s close friends, who are advocates at U-Va. for sex-assault awareness, said they believe that something traumatic happened to her, but they also have come to doubt her account. A student who came to Jackie’s aid the night of the alleged attack said in an interview late Friday night that she did not appear physically injured at the time but was visibly shaken and told him and two other friends that she had been at a fraternity party and had been forced to have oral sex with a group of men. They offered to get her help and she said she just wanted to return to her dorm, said the student, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

More details appears much later:

A student identified as “Andy” in the Rolling Stone article said in an interview with The Post Friday night that Jackie did call him and two other friends for help a few weeks into the fall semester in 2012. He said Jackie said that “something bad happened” and that he ran to meet her on campus, about a mile from the school’s fraternities.

The student, who said he never spoke to a Rolling Stone reporter, said Jackie seemed “really upset, really shaken up” but disputed other details of that article’s account. Rolling Stone said that the three friends found Jackie in a “bloody dress,” with the Phi Kappa Psi house looming in the background, and that they debated “the social price of reporting Jackie’s rape” before advising against seeking help. He said none of that is accurate.

“Andy” said Jackie said she had been at a fraternity party and had been forced to perform oral sex on a group of men, but he does not remember her identifying a specific house. He said he did not notice any injuries or blood but said the group offered to get her help. She, instead, wanted to return to her dorm, and he and the friends spent the night with her to comfort her at her request.

“The perception that I’m gravitating toward is that something happened that night and it’s gotten lost in different iterations of the stories that have been told,” said the student who requested anonymity. “Is there a possibility nothing happened? Sure. I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.”

Wow. Richard Bradley, who started this exercise in journalistic standards, wondered whether anyone from the Rolling Stone had talked to the three rescuers, as did I. They also seemed to be missing from the WaPo exoneration I first read. But they aren't missing now.

That is a headline-worthy addition to the coverage, and strong support for the "something dreadful happened somewhere" theory. If a PTSD victim (symptoms of which include memory loss of details of the key event) has transformed forced oral sex to rape, invented the broken glass table and misidentified the fraternity, is she a shameless lying opportunist or a victim of a very serious crime? That is not meant to be a tough call.

[ADD: Or maybe Jackie spent time with rape advocates who knew the Federal definition. From the Rape Abuse & Incest National Network:

For its Uniform Crime Reports, the FBI defines rape as:

Please note that this definition is rather graphic, which is inevitable when describing crimes this violent.

“Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

Under Virginia law we seem to be discussing Forcible Sodomy. Have a nice Sunday.]

I know that serious journalists covering this will want to re-think their coverage. Robby Soave of Reason wondered early on if the Rolling Stone story was a "hoax", and took this victory lap on Friday afternoon:

Virtually all details of the horrific gang rape at a University of Virginia fraternity detailed in an engrossing Rolling Stone article last month are now either disputed our outright debunked. A terrific Washington Post investigation—which includes an interview with Jackie, the accuser—casts serious doubt on the narrative Jackie told to Sabrina Rubin Erdely, the author of the originalRolling Stone piece.

...

In light of all this new information, it's impossible to say what exactly happened to Jackie. But it's clear that her story, as told to Erdely, is false. Not slightly false, or partly false, but false. And if Rolling Stone had done its job, the magazine might well have determined that before such a journalistic catastrophe unfolded.

If he wanted to stand by that in its entirety without any softening at all in light of the new information, I suppose I could defend his decision (I picked my rose years ago). But I don't see an UPDATE at his post either and I wouldn't be surprised to see some softening to the "Not slightly false, or partly false, but false" declaration. C'mon, the three rescuers exist and confirm she was in distress - that's not nothing.

On the other hand, any initial criticism of Rolling Stone was apparently understated. In addition to not interviewing the alleged perp, they didn't interview the rescuers? How ever bad a job people thought the Rolling Stone did, it was worse. Yeah, and their initial apology, since revised, was deplorable too.

But let's give Ms. Erdely a bit of a golf clap for the one comment she got from Randall, one of the three rescuers:

Two years later, Jackie, now a third-year, is worried about what might happen to her once this article comes out. Greek life is huge at UVA, with nearly one-third of undergrads belonging to a fraternity or sorority, so Jackie fears the backlash could be big – a "shitshow" predicted by her now-former friend Randall, who, citing his loyalty to his own frat, declined to be interviewed.

He called it. And all change.

OK, THE WAPO BURIED MORE HERE: Late in a follow-up process story about change coming to UVA we get more details:

Doubts about the accuracy of the Rolling Stone account continued to mount Saturday. A second U-Va. student who was among a group of three friends who came to Jackie’s aid after her alleged sexual assault during the fall semester of 2012 told The Post that details in the story were flawed.

The Rolling Stone account said that Jackie summoned three friends to help her after she was brutally raped at the Phi Kappa Psi house on Sept. 28, 2012. The article said that Jackie was bleeding and was wearing a blood-spattered dress and that she met her friends in the shadow of the looming fraternity house. It also claims that Jackie’s friends persuaded her not to report the attack for fear of it harming their social lives, a critical part in the article.

“It was not anything like what happened that night,” said the friend, who is identified in the story as “Cindy” and spoke anonymously because of the sensitivity of the subject. “That night was not very significant. I remember it, but it was not very dramatic.”

She said the students met Jackie near the U-Va. dorms, more than a mile from the campus fraternities.

“Cindy” said that Jackie appeared distraught that night but was not hurt physically and was not bleeding. The student said Jackie made no claims of a gang rape and did not identify the fraternity where she said she had partied. “Cindy” said Jackie told one of the friends there that a group of men had forced her to perform oral sex.

The student said there was never any discussion among Jackie and the group involving how their reputations or social status might be affected by seeking help.

The student said that when she read the Rolling Stone account, she felt betrayed. “It’s completely false,” she said, noting that she was not contacted or interviewed by a Rolling Stone reporter.

Jackie, in several recent interviews with The Post, stood by her account that she was gang raped at Phi Kappa Psi after she attended a party there with a date. Her version of events during those interviews was substantially similar to the Rolling Stone account.

I am now confused as to how anyone identified the fraternity, since the WaPo told us this:

“He never said he was in Phi Psi,” [Jackie] said, while noting that she was positive that the date function and attack occurred at the fraternity house. “I know it was Phi Psi, because a year afterward, my friend pointed out the building to me and said that’s where it happened.”

That seems to leave Randall not heard from, beyond his 'shitshow" comment. 

Two of the three rescuers have now spoken to T Rees Shapiro. Their stories seems to provide at least one witness to a contemporaneous statement by the victim alleging sexual assault (or not - if Jackie walked a mile back to the dorms and reflected on her situation, was that time for reflection as described in North Carolina law? I am not a lawyer, the incident is in Virgina, but let me ask anyway). Whether "Cindy" overheard Jackie's comments to the male rescuer or had them described to her later is not clear. To me, anyway, but right not now much is.

RICHARD'S RULES: Let's remember the exhortation from Richard Bradley, who started untangling this journalistic snarl back on Nov 24:

One must be most critical, in the best sense of that word, about what one is already inclined to believe. 

People are most easily duped by a story they want to believe. Just as two weeks ago the tide was running the other way, but right now there are plenty of people who want to believe that there is nothing at all behind the Rolling Stone story.

WHERE I AM COMING FROM:

I was an early critic of the Rolling Stone story, wondering whether we had actually heard from the three rescuers. Now they have arrived with information I am sure Ms. Erdely wishes she had exerted herself to gather earlier.

FWIW, this is the pretty-slim evidence on which I am basing my current view.

1. Jackie was reportedly an energetic, successful high school student (unrefuted from Rolling Stone, WaPo; might be false, but she did get into a good school and lifeguards have always struck me as athletic and can-do).

2. Something happened that night, Sept 28 2012. Her suitemate, Soltis, says she went into a downward spiral afterwards; her rescuers say she was "visibly shaken" and alleged forced oral sex with a group of men; per the possibly useless Rolling Stone story, Jackie failed three courses in one semester. From which I will at least take that Jackie is telling people she failed three classes; who knows whether any attempt was made to verify that?

3. She is now being treated for depression (RS, WaPo), has been diagnosed with PTSD (she claimed to WaPo) and is on medication (her claim). No word on whether she showed the WaPo her prescription bottle or waived privacy and allowed her psychiatrist to be interviewed. She has (reportedly, RS) gained 25 pounds and spends a lot of time with the rape advocates group.

4. She has reported a sexual assault to the Dean, a year too late.

5. Symptoms of PTSD include memory deficiencies around the events of the trauma. In other words, details get lost or confused. ThinkProgress is hardly my usual go-to, but Aviva Shen gathers some checkable anecdotes about rape victims and PTSD.

Points 1-3 convince me that something traumatic happened to her. OK, maybe she tripped on a sidewalk crack, bumped her head, and turned into a compulsive liar, but her statements, and (4) indicate she believed (and still believes) that the trauma was a sex assault.

The PTSD makes me inclined to put little weight on "'wrong" details. I would start with "something happened" and work forward, not with "It wasn't Phi Psi, so it's all a lie" and letting it rest. But that does make a nice chant...

MAYBE SOMEONE COULD FEMSPLAIN THIS TO ME:

I can only barely manage to square the logic in this WaPo piece about rape victims:

We should believe, as a matter of default, what an accuser says.

[BIG SKIP and]

And while the clock is ticking on the physical evidence, survivors are often grappling with the first stages of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), creating a perfect storm of foggy memories, isolation and denial.... 

The lasting psychological wound left by sexual assault is unique — and makes justice less likely. Survivors’ memories are often blurry, and they tell conflicting stories about what happened to them.

I think she might be trying to say the same thing I said above - start with believing that "something" happened to a victim and work forward. But I hope I wouldn't use the phrases "We should believe, as a matter of default, what an accuser says" and "Survivors’ memories are often blurry, and they tell conflicting stories about what happened to them" in the same article without that clarification. How about "we should treat an accusers broad allegations, if not all the details, seriously" and "survivors memories are often blurry"? Works for me.

Comments

[jimmyk]

First? Still Groundhog Day.

[Thomas Collins]

JiB, before yesterday's games, it wasn't the case that OSU had a rout of a solid team on its resume, and Texas Christian did not. Now that's the case. That's why I would drop Texas Christian from the top four and put OSU in the tournament. I understand your argument about not dropping a team when it performed. But the gap between 3, 4, 5 and 6 hasn't been that great for the last several weeks. I think your framework applies more to a situation in which a given team has opened up a significant performance gap with respect to the trailing teams.

[Thomas Collins]

Of course, we are assuming that The Committee wouldn't drop the nation's only undefeated team to make room for Ohio State.

[jimmyk]

TCU arguably had a tougher schedule than OSU, 5 top 20 teams vs 2.

Maybe the committee can engineer a tie for 4th and call for a one-game playoff.

[jimmyk]

transformed forced oral sex to rape

I'm not a legal expert, but "transformed"? Isn't "forced oral sex" actually "rape"?

[RickB]

jimmyk,

Per the Rapist in Chief, it's not even sex.

[boatbuilder]

"False in one, false in all." Bullshit is bullshit, TM, even if (especially if) it comes from someone as messed up as this woman evidently is.

Why should anyone believe any of this?

[Thomas Collins]

Meanwhile, Yvonne Abraham of The Boston Globe classifies the falling apart of the Rolling Stone article as a disaster for all. However, her piece does not mention the disaster a false rape accusation is not only for the male being falsely accused, but also for that male's loved ones and friends, many of whom are female.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/12/07/rolling-stone-uva-rape-story-disaster-for-all/sXnOfwEr4FMVrJBhLeAFNK/story.html

[Old Lurker]

How could one not read a story on Fox which begins "Report: robots could eliminate need for most lawyers"?

[narciso]

this explains a lot:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2014/12/a-callow-clickbait-obsessed-millionaire.html

[Ben]

I'm surprised this topic didn't reach the surface.

Maybe y'all were just expecting it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/bill-cassidy-mary-landrieu-2014-louisiana-senate-elections-results-113367.html

[boatbuilder]

OL--was that report written by an insurance company exec?

[Ben]

http://news.yahoo.com/funeral-held-man-shot-cop-nyc-stairwell-200125285.html

"The 28-year-old Gurley was killed Nov. 20. Police say Officer Peter Liang was patrolling a pitch-dark stairwell when Gurley and his girlfriend opened a door into the stairway.

Police have said Liang apparently fired by accident, killing Gurley. Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson said Friday that he would present the case to a grand jury.

An aunt of Gurley's, Janice Asiedu, tells TV station New York 1 that she wants "justice to be served."

**TRAINING**

[Old Lurker]

That would be ironic, Boatbuilder...one robot to another.

[Thomas Collins]

The polls had Cassidy anywhere from 10-15 points up, which was consistent with the 57-43 final result, Ben. So I think you are correct; this one had no surprise value, and the reasons for Landrieu's loss have been fully discussed in the context of the November 4th US Senate and House results.

Besides, how could that compare with the College Football Playoff, Obama's sore throat, the Rolling Stone undocumented article, and China going after former honchos?

By the way, Ben, I need to take respectful issue with a comment you made on another thread that rape is about power. If one looks at the demographics of rape, it is clear, albeit incredibly politically incorrect to utter, that a substantial part of rape is unfulfilled horniness. The younger males, who typically have more gas in the tank, are far more likely to rape than the older ones. This is important because it emphasizes the necessity of societal mores to channel that horniness. I know that approach is considered hopelessly out of date, but, as the movie Casablanca teaches, as time goes by, the fundamental things apply.

[Old Lurker]

Show of hands...how many of you covered by Obamacare would receive a CT Scan for a sore throat?

[jimmyk]

"robots could eliminate need for most lawyers"

OL, not just lawyers:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/terminator-robots-could-end-human-4734501

In any case, the legal profession must already be reeling from this:

http://www.wired.com/2014/12/court-says-chimp-not-a-person/

But perhaps another court will find that robots have rights and are entitled to legal representation (robotic or otherwise).

[RickB]

"Why should anyone believe any of this?"

It's very clear Jackie and the Seven Dwarfs must be read with attention to the precautionary principle as it pertains to ANYMALES. Jackie's recovered memories serve to enhance the purpose of the entire tale and should not be dismissed simply because they were complete fabrications. In fact, the very serious nature of the enhancements warrant a thorough investigation as to whether ANYMALES should be allowed on campus at all.

[Thomas Collins]

OL, I wonder whether Obama's docs have reason to be concerned that what is ailing the Prez may be more than a sore throat.

[Captain Hate]

Cassidy was on Rove News Sunday and now Rush is on.

[Threadkiller]

Before Obama was put in the CT scanner he quipped to the techs: "I hope you're all Marxist, Socialist, Homosexual, Black-liberation, non-citizen Muslims."

[jimmyk]

At the risk of sounding like an old fogey: Just a couple of generations ago colleges (and by extension, parents) recognized what can happen when you put together thousands of 18-to-20-year olds. They had single-sex dorms and parietal rules, mainly for the protection of women. Then in the 1960s some geniuses decided that was out-of-date, and we see the result. Even though the "rape epidemic" claims are surely BS, it's still a big mess. (A similar story could be told about the military.)

Reminds me of some of Tom Wolfe's writings about the communes where people decided that bourgeois habits like brushing teeth were out-of-date. Eventually they figured out that their parents weren't so stupid.

[mockmook]

Oh dear, RickB, you are coming awfully close to criticizing Jackie--that's not tolerated by TM.

[Thomas Collins]

You left out "Newport Box smoking", TK.

[Captain Hate]

Like Althouse I used to subscribe to TNR and NYRB before they went full retard.

[Captain Hate]

Rush is banging on Garner being arrested for depriving the State of its insatiable appetite for revenue.

[Threadkiller]

LoL, TC.

[Captain Hate]

Rush is hammering the Repuke Chicken Littles cowering from a "shutdown". Chris Wallace is summoning his dead commie father to help him out here.

[Captain Hate]

Rush is completely slatterihg Chris Wallace. Rove, Boehner and McTurtle most impacted.

[Sandy "I Stand with Walker 2016" Daze ن]

Most likely covered in comments of earlier threads, which I missed, but...

As the screw turns, wasn't it that men, keeping to themselves, created un-matched power
centers which had to be opened up to women, the break the patriarchy. When the ERA failed, then direct action began leading to, IIRC, the Cosmos Club on WDC (among others) and more recently Augusta Golf Club. One of the last bastions is the Greek system, and we can't have that, although there are still the public facilities, which as in some of the newer schools being built, are unisex.

But the screw continues to turn, and maqybe same-sex education, all boys schools and all gurlz schools aren't such a bad idea.

It is all so confusing, when the betters try to convince the lessers all should think, be, act, behave, learn, espouse, pray, talk the same.

[Threadkiller]

http://townhall.com/columnists/pauljacob/2014/12/07/oh-brother-n1928472/page/full

Justice.

[Captain Hate]

Never forget Pearl Harbor. Thanks, Sandy.

[James D.]

invented the broken glass table and misidentified the fraternity, is she a shameless lying opportunist or a victim of a very serious crime? That is not meant to be a tough call.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but...

If you can't remember details, then perhaps you shouldn't talk about them in a front-page expose in a national publication.

[Beasts of England]

Is this a rape thread or a rape-rape thread?

[Ben]

Thomas; Depends on the variety of rape. Testosterone build up creates an aggressive style. Anomic rape is more appropriate as 'power'. There are manual remedies for horniness.

Burglars often take a dump on your prized oriental rug, It's a final insult to their intrusion, and it's an expression of contempt and power.

[Ben]

Lacking the proper form of 'anonymous rape'

Strike anomic.

[Captain Hate]

Jane Harman must have received a release waiver from the rest home to come on the Rove News Sunday panel.

[Captain Hate]

Jane is in the Uncle Leo mode.

[Threadkiller]

That sounds like a shitistic, Ben.

[A to the F]

How is oral sex forced exactly? Couldn't she, yknow, fight back by biting them?

Seems to me like a guy of slutty drunk girl's remorse? She wanted the cool frat boys to like her, so she started handing out BJs like candy and before she knew it she'd blown half the frat and was the laughing stock.

Realizing the error of her slutiness, she concocted the "forced oral sex" story so she wouldn't look like the extremely damaged goods she was and might still maintain some integrity with her friends and date-ability with the guys who might hear about it later.

[Captain Hate]

George Will and Juan have apparently made a pact to support each other's stupidity.

[A to the F]

Case of slutty drunk girl's remorse... (wish there was an edit)

[RickB]

mockmook,

Jackie doesn't exist. There may be a woman at UVa who underwent some sort of trauma but Jackie is simply a character in a dystopic fairytale.

Juanita Broderick exists. Paula Jones exists. Kathleen Willey exists. Monica Lewinsky exists and has the blue dress to prove it. Male sexual predators definitely exist - Hillary Clinton will swear to it.

[Thomas Collins]

Yet most who would want reforms to minimize anomic rape, Ben, wouldn't even consider reinstitution of aspects of college life, such as parietals, which would go more towards minimizing anomic rape than "male privilege" seminars.

I appreciate that power is a part of it. But power is overemphasized in this context. Every human interaction has a "battle of pure prestige" element to it. But the Title IX memo advocates have gone off the rails in their own pursuit of power.

[Ben]

Forced oral-copulation sounds dangerous, with the teeth thing.

[Threadkiller]

Forced oral copulation doesn't happen in prisons because of teeth and fighting back.

[Ben]

"Forced oral copulation doesn't happen in prisons because of teeth and fighting back.'

Have you been to prison? Sounds like another 'shitistic'.

They don't fight back. It's healthier that way. They also 'eat salad' without resistance, which is futile.

[Miss Marple]

I will have to watch the re-run of Fox this afternoon. I have been wrestling with wrapping paper to get the presents wrapped for the giving tree at church. I drew a girl who wanted art supplies, and this necessitated wrapping several boxes and constructing them into a stack and then securing the entire thing with tightly tied wire ribbon and then making a big bow.

Quite an accomplishment for me, as I am not particularly coordinated.

Mass is at noon, so must go get ready.

[Beasts of England]

Shawshank Redemption, FTW.

[Captain Hate]

Are we really having an argument that oral sex is never rape because the ostensible victim can bite the perp's wang? As if the victim is in that position just by accident? Just shut up with this line of argument, idiots.

[Threadkiller]

Forced oral copulation does happen in prisons despite teeth and fighting back.

[Ben]

Reader discretion advised.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tossing+the+salad

[Thomas Collins]

Let's see, we have Newport Box, sore throats, oral copulation and salad tossing on this thread so far. Where's Jessica Jaymes when you need her?

[Threadkiller]

Sorry, CH.

I was having fun helpering their stupid point.

[Captain Hate]

George Will: The English language is not Hillary Clinton's friend.

[Captain Hate]

I didn't mean you, TK.

[Captain Hate]

Juan: Hillary is a political titan with whom Republicans can't compete.

[rse]

TC-I think college and that time of life really are when girls who have not had close ties to a brother or dad really get lost now. Freshman year Red and I had a disagreement over her friends' behavior that I saw as promiscuous and said was ultimately a bad idea. She disagreed. Now with a few years to see the actual long term effects, she sees my point much more. Luckily we started this dialogue long before she went away.

[Ben]

" But power is overemphasized in this context. Every human interaction has a "battle of pure prestige" element to it"

Well said. I think we're in agreement.

[Thomas Collins]

OK, let's take a break from the oral and emphasize the cerebral. Pop quiz. No cheating with Google. If tonight's Bolts/Pats game were being played in the first year of the AFL, what would be the names of the teams? First correct answer gets treated by me to nachos at Jerry Remy's in the Seaport District (but you cover your own transportation).

[Captain Hate]

Boston Patriots versus Los Angeles Chargers?

[Mike]

Slate has an interview with Andy, largely corroborating what Cindy told the Post.

[Thomas Collins]

And the Title IX memo adherents, rse, drown out discussion of issues such as the one you raise about the effect of close ties with a male relative. Not to mention that demonization of males, if bought into by middle school and teenage females, makes developing those close ties difficult.

[Thomas Collins]

That's it, CH! Nachos will be served!

[Mike]

Here's the link to the Slate piece.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/12/06/rolling_stone_uva_rape_story_continues_to_unravel_jackie_s_friend_andy_speaks.html

[Captain Hate]

Bobby Jindal slattering Common Core. And that concludes my coverage of Rove News Sunday.

[Beasts of England]

Political Titan? Yeah, she really titaned Barry's happy ass in the primary, didn't she? Are you being obtuse,* Juan?

* obligatory Shawshank tie-in

[Captain Hate]

I loved the AFL. Come back to Cleveland, TC, and we'll get some nachos to go and eat them at Squire Valleeview farm.

[Captain Hate]

Off to Medina, Ahia for some antique hunting for Mrs H and Waffle House for me. BBL.

[Iggy]

One thing seems clear to me; the selection process for a four team playoff has not only not done anything to alleviate the selection controversies of yore, but may have made them worse.
It's not that complicated if you're bound and determined to use a selection process; you always have gripes so you better make the pool big enough so that most people will ignore the little fish complaining.
Eight teams would presumably accomplish that.

[Beasts of England]

Forty six talking heads at ESPN have the following teams ranked at number four in the CFP:

26 / 46 - Ohio State
12 / 46 - TCU
9 / 46 - Baylor

KC Joyner has both OSU and TCU in the top four, dropping FSU altogether. 16 pundits endorse the JOM consensus of Bama v. OSU and FSU v. Oregon.

[Thomas Collins]

I think eight teams is the ideal, Iggy. I realize that 9, 10 and 11 would complain. But 9, 10 and 11 would typically have significantly less of a case than 4, 5 and 6. On the other hand, if one likes plenty of post selection trash talking from various schools and their fans, 4 is the best number.

[Thomas Collins]

I'll let you know the next time I am in the Cleveland area, CH.

[Ben]

Sort of on-topic; I surely would enjoy the views of others here with regard to Julian Assange essentially being charged with rape because his condom broke. Sweden has been quite gender-biased of late.

[Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

On topic of today's date.

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=56894

73rd Pearl Harbor Day!

Never forget!

[Threadkiller]

Essentially?

[Comanche Voter]

Ah the old Buffalo Springfield song with the line, "Something's happening here, What it is is not exactly clear". Shades of 1968.

That covers Jackie. Frankly I feel sorry for the lady--she's emotionally in not mentally fractured goods.

[Ben]

' I surely would enjoy the (serous) views of others "

[Threadkiller]

Vauge circumstances deserve serious reflections.

[Iggy]

From todays Pieces;

Looks like the skeptics or “rape denialists”, as we are known in certain quarters, proved right.

Lefties know what is important. The tolerance of diverse skin colors and culture is; the tolerance of diverse thought is not.

The only part of the Constitution leftism aligns with is the part stricken through regarding the importance of pigment.

[Bori]

Apparently the RS writer Ms. Eldely has a thing for rape stories.

My wife's cousin lives in Norristown, PA and told us that she wrote an article for the Inquirer about a rape by Catholic priests.

That story is also falling apart as the subject whom she based the story on made factual errors and his claims are falling apart.

Some notable details that are similar to Jackie's story, gang-raped by 3 priests and 1 teacher abd raped for hours at a time.

One conviction has been overturned, 2 are on appeal and 1 priest died in prison.

[Iggy]

Also from today's Pieces;

Within hours, St. Louis police Chief Sam Dotson rushed to tell the large Bosnian community there that it was no hate crime.

"There is no indication that the gentleman

… was targeted because he was Bosnian," Dotson said.

Has any black victim's family ever been told he was not a victim of a hate crime because there was no indication he was killed because his ancestors were Bantu or they came from Guinea Bissau?
Affirmative action even extends to hammers in the skull?

[Darleenclick]

"Something must have happened!"

Which was the refrain most heard around the McMartin preschool debacle of the 1980's.

Deja vu

[clarice]

TM, As everyone here knows I have the most respect for you, but if there is a Jackie and there were a trial of this incident, no jury would convict on the basis of the ever changing story . Never.

[MarkO]

Burn the witches!

[RickB]

Bori,

She makes archives of her dreck available online. She could work for National Enquirer if they would just eliminate their standards as Rolling Coprolite has done.

[Iggy]

--That is a headline-worthy addition to the coverage, and strong support for the "something dreadful happened somewhere" theory. If a PTSD victim (symptoms of which include memory loss of details of the key event) has transformed forced oral sex to rape, invented the broken glass table and misidentified the fraternity, is she a shameless lying opportunist or a victim of a very serious crime? That is not meant to be a tough call.--

It may not be a tough call, but we don't know if it's the right question.

As boatbuilder notes, since it is now evident she lied to Erdely, it is kinda tough to put much credence in what she told her friends, even if it was contemporaneous.

[Stephanie]

Countdown clock is on... 31 minutes to the Final Four Reveal Show.

[Thomas Collins]

Iggy, I wouldn't classify Jackie as a liar, because I suspect the "advocate" and the "journalist" encouraged the "recovery" of the "memories". I doubt Jackie's state of mind rises to the level of intentional deceit. I'd say the "journalist" better fits the definition of liar.

[Thomas Collins]

It doesn't look as if it has leaked, Stephanie. Perhaps our national security folks should hire The Committee to advise them on keeping secrets.

[Slocum]

I think at this point, there are about 3 possibilities. One was covered by 'The Onion':

http://www.theonion.com/articles/visiting-parents-unknowingly-strike-up-conversatio,28294/

That is, she was promiscuous, regretted her behavior and decided was coerced after the fact (perhaps even convincing herself). And maybe it wasn't even promiscuity. Maybe she gave on BJ to one guy who then blew her off and she felt used.

The other possibility is the she really was forced to give oral to some number of frat brothers. Which, obviously, would be horrible and felonious.

And the third is that nothing at all happened and she's a mentally unstable young woman with Munchausen tendencies who invented the story to get attention and kept embellishing it over the years since. Clearly, there's a definite status associated with claiming to be a 'rape survivor' among the SJW crowd (see Lena Dunham and the apparently fictitious 'Barry One').

I really don't know how to bet among the three possibilities. But I take it to be significant that A) the details of her story changed so radically over the years, and B) clearly those closest to her did not seem to find her very credible.

[Stephanie]

This chick is a fabulist. Actually both are. The sickchick is a drama queen. She embellished the 'telling friends that night' part of the story to make them look bad; because, she doesn't feel that they were sufficiently empathetic to her 'plight.' They probably still are friends with her and have no idea she secretly resents them, but she feels lingering hostility at the dis to her divaness of their not being sufficiently indulgent to her that night thus the opportunity to exaggerate their perfidy was gleefully undertaken. She wasn't sufficiently petted and is now baring her claws.

I'd be interested to know why she is no longer roomies with the first year roommate. Most people go out of their way to avoid diva personalities due to their incessant neediness. It appears she may have bailed at the first available opportunity.

[Tom Maguire]

I'm not a legal expert, but "transformed"? Isn't "forced oral sex" actually "rape"?

Interesting. I bet it varies by state, or might be under sodomy. But here is the FBI:

For its Uniform Crime Reports, the FBI defines rape as:

Please note that this definition is rather graphic, which is inevitable when describing crimes this violent.
“Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

[clarice]

Steph, you may well be right, but I think that reads more into this than the facts warrant. All I can say is that I'd hate to be the prosecutor advancing her case.

[Old Lurker]

Before I assume my place in front of the TV at 1:00, tell me who the Skins are losing to today?

[Stephanie]

AP:

Alabama
FSU
Oregon
Baylor
OSU

Just released AP poll. USA Today still not published.

[Thomas Collins]

The Native Red Hued Potatoes are playing the Rams, OL.

[boatbuilder]

According to "Cindy", in "Jackie's" account the events of that night "weren't very significant" and weren't "dramatic." Forced oral sex by three guys with others watching is not significant or dramatic? Perhaps not as dramatic as seven guys raping her over three hours on broken glass, but it's nonetheless, if true, horrendously traumatic.

This is a complete fabrication, TM. "Something happened" to Tawana Brawley and to similar "victims" of other phony racist attacks that have been alleged and fallen apart. That the alleged victim suffers from mental illness isn't really in doubt. What is in doubt is why this should be treated as anything other than an incidence of mental illness hijacked in service of an agenda.

[Stephanie]

Maybe, Clarice, but 10 years of dealing with one gives me guidance to know the likely moves and countermoves that will be undertaken to maintain diva status and the thinking behind the manipulations. High maintenance doesn't begin to describe a drama queen.

[Old Lurker]

TC, my snark about Obama's sore throat CT Scan was not that his doctors might be justifiably worried (like that split, SBW?!) about something given his smoking and friendship with...welp you know who..., rather it was wondering what they would do for me if I showed up with a sore throat and my Medicare Card or if somebody younger presented his Bronze Plan Card.

Then again, they can radiate that guy three or four times a day and I will be happy to foot his bill.