Let Me Highlight Charles Blow's Auto-Humiliation

Charles Blow takes up the story of Michelle Obama's "Hands Up - I Can't Reach" brush with hideous racism at Target:

In an interview with People magazine, Mrs. Obama recalled a trip to Target during which “the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”

Could the Target shopper who asked Mrs. Obama for help simply not have recognized her and needed, presumably, a taller person’s assistance? Sure, in theory. Or could the encounter have been disdainful and presumptuous, a manifestation of some inherent bias? Sure, that too could have been the case.

Could there have been some combination of those forces at play? Also possible.

The truth is, we don’t know. The lady asking for help might not even know. We are not always aware of our biases, let alone are we always able to articulate them. And people can sometimes be hypersensitive to bias when they are submerged in it.

All we know is that Mrs. Obama questions the encounter and has misgivings about it. For her, it’s a feeling. Others might hear this story and feel that Mrs. Obama possibly overreacted or misconstrued the meaning of the request.

Evidently Mr. Blow does not read any right-wing sites or trouble himself with Google, but we can help. There are answers to some of Mr. Blow's questions in Mrs. Obama's description of the same incident to David Letterman in 2012:

"That’s my Target run. I went to Target," she said. "I thought I was undercover. I have to tell you something about this trip though. No one knew that was me because a woman actually walked up to me, right? I was in the detergent aisle, and she said — I kid you not — she said, ‘Excuse me, I just have to ask you something,’ and I thought, ‘Oh, cover’s blown.’ She said, ‘Can you reach on that shelf and hand me the detergent?’  I kid you not.”  

As the audience laughed, she went on, “And the only thing she said — I reached up, ’cause she was short, and I reached up, pulled it down — she said, ‘Well, you didn’t have to make it look so easy.’ That was my interaction. I felt so good. ... She had no idea who I was.

So, there is no "presumably" about it - per Mrs. Obama, the woman was short.

Does Mrs. Obama describe the encounter as "disdainful and presumptuous"? Hardly.

Did Mrs. Obama have "misgivings" about the encounter? I suppose it depends on the meaning of "I felt so good", but a reasonable guess is she didn't have a problem with the incident at the time and later considered it to be an amusing anecdote for Letterman. Of course, people with PTSD can say all sorts of things...

Which leaves us where? Perhaps PEOPLE took her comments out of context - maybe she was responding to her husband's stories about being mistaken for a valet or a waiter with the obeservation that sometimes people get mistaken for the help and its No Big Deal. Yes, it's hard to square that with the presentation of the PEOPLE excerpt, but maybe the transcript will reveal yet another agenda-driven reporter in action.

Or (my guess!) Mr. Blow is being a bit trusting and naive here:

All we know is that Mrs. Obama questions the encounter and has misgivings about it. For her, it’s a feeling.

Well, we know that at one time Mrs. Obama did not seem to question the incident. We also know that she and her husband are under pressure to rally to a particular side in the "Hands Up", "I Can't Breathe" controversies. So it is possible she has re-purposed a once-amusing anecdote into a tale of our nation's legacy of slavery because it suits the current political climate.

Maybe.

QUESTIONS HE WILL NEVER ASK OR ANSWER:

Mr. Blow delves into social science and delivers an amusing aside here:

These [pro white/ anti-black] biases were also strongest among those 65 and older, although those 18 to 24 ranked second among the age groups (this strand of bias among college aged people deserves its own study). 

I have not performed or attempted to locate such a study of our nation's youth, but I have met a number of survivors of the college admission process. A near-universal observation made by this cream of America's young crop is this - it's a hell of a lot easier to walk into the school of your choice if your black.

Whether this makes them "anti-black" I don't know, but I don't know just what survey responses lead to an "anti-black" score, either.

IDIOM FAIL: "Cream of the crop" is being put down as a failed idiom on my scorecard. Cream rises in, for example, a butter urn; it is hardly a "crop". Help me out - is there any crop that results in cream, or am I right to think that people have been abusing this image for too long? (Spoiler Alert: Google can be such a party-pooper, even when the party is only in my own head.) Well, I won't be crying over spilled milk.

HE MUST BE THE OTHER GUY: Charles Blow explains to CNN that he, too, is harrased "all the time" in stores by racist whites who seem to think he is a store employee. We may have videotape of one such encounter.

Comments

[Buford Gooch]

First, Last, whatever.

[BB Key]

1

[henry]

Charles Blow, co- poster child for advancement on basis of skin color (shares with JEF) demonstrates all he has going for him is melanin. Again.

[daddy]

Megyn Kelly and Marko Rubio this minute discussing the probability that Raoul Castro and Obama are probably already looking at this as a way to get the Gitmo prison program shut down.

Yep. If I'm Raoul I'd say that I'd take the Gitmo prisoners off your hands if you give up the Gitmo Base. Sadly I have no difficulty imagining that Obama would take that deal sometime between now and the end of his term.

I suppose I need to hear what are the popular arguments Obama would be faced with as to why he should not turn over Gitmo to the Cubans. What are the particular arguments and how would they be publicized/voiced, and by whom, as to what does the US give up by giving away Gitmo. I'd need to hear that, and weigh it against the praise Obama believes he would receive from the hate America crowd across the planet and the pleasure he would have from sticking it to this country that he and his mentors so hate.

If the argument is simply that it is a capitulation to the Communist Govt of Cuba, well it seems to me that he has already capitulated to the Communist regime of Cuba, and as to whether it reduces the strategic Military strength of the US, his track record indicates that he believes such reductions are either a good thing or relatively unimportant.

Overall it strikes me that giving away Gitmo to the Cubans would fit right in with the mindset of every Leftwing idea from every Leftwing icon Obama has considered praiseworthy in his books, speeches, etc.

Charles Blow I assume would be for it.

The NYTimes would probably praise him as the New Gandhi, as I suspect would the UN.

What do you guys think?

Bill Richardson said on Lou Dobbs that Obama was doing this Cuban stuff now "for his Legacy".

Do you guys believe that Obama believes giving away Gitmo to the Cubans would be a plus or a minus to his Legacy?

[Thomas Collins]

This is TM's revenge for our tweaking him about the Rolling Stone article posts. Now we have to deal with commenting on a post about Charles Blow and Michelle Obama and People Magazine and Target. That will teach us!

By the way, when I am in a library, it isn't at all unusual for me to be asked by an individual shorter than I am to retrieve a book on a high shelf. Should I be offended that I am viewed as a book retriever as opposed to the sleek three piece suit treadmiller that I am?

[GUS]

Can you imagine being trapped inside Bichelle Obama's tortured brain? Seriously. She is at the absolute pinnacle of what America, NAY THE WORLD, has vis a vis comfort, riches and prestige, YET, she doesn't want to help a SHORT WHITE WOMAN get a box of laundry detergent, and uses the made up bullshit encounter to make herself a victim of a perceived slight.

What a worthless steaming pile of CRAP.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

For her, it’s a feeling.

Good Lord. What do ya do with that?
I guess avoid people that are constantly LOOKING to be mad like Michelle Obama. The problem is with THEM not the people they interact with.

[clarice]

Gitmo was granted to the US in perpetuity, Obama cannot just give it away.

[Thomas Collins]

If I'm a Gitmo prisoner, daddy, I'm hoping Obama doesn't give me over to the Castro boys, who would treat me far worse than the US. But if Obama does give up the Gitmo lease to the Castros, I have the perfect places for them to be relocated: properties owned by good liberals such as Steyer, Kamarck, Gore, Kerry, Friedman, et al. Perhaps Lena Dunham could take a few in.

[GUS]

Daddy, it's been reported that Obama's clowns were "Negotiating" with Cuba for several years. WHO THE FUCK WAS NEGOTIATING? Who is the GODDAMNED GENIUS? Is it the same fuckwad who traded the TALL-E-BONN 5 for fucking Bergdahl???? Was it RODHAM?? KERRY?

THE GOP needs to grow some balls. Seriously, this shit cannot stand.

[Miss Marple]

I am a short person. I often ask people who are taller to get things from a tall shelf. WHY Kroger places items which people who cook from scratch (usually older and shorter women) on the top shelves, is beyond my understanding.

I will ask anyone who is taller: men,women, blacks, whites, whatever. My alternative is to STAND on the lowest shelf edge as a step stool and hope I don't fall or pull everything over on me.

I am so outraged by this story that I cannot think of the appropriate response, other than to say it is more of the Obama BS.

[daddy]

I believe Spain granted us Gitmo in perpetuity.

Clarice,

I will do some checking but I wonder if we had some similar deal with the Philippines as both acquisitions were a result of the Spanish American War.

I know the status of the US Bases in the Philippines changed during the Carter years. I think we originally owned them, but then they were turned over to the Philippines as their territory, and thats when we started renting them.

Anyhow, just a point that I need to learn about. Same thing with the status of the Canal built in Panama. Bori might know that history inside out.

I do recall that stink a few years back about Obama supposedly giving away some Alaskan islands to the Russians. World Net Daily pushed that as fact, yet FactCheck.org pushed back against that story: FactCheck.org: No Obama conspiracy to give Alaska islands to Russia

[Thomas Collins]

Do any Guantanamo history aficionados know whether the description of the history of the US/Cuba Guantanamo arrangements described in the article linked below is accurate?

[Thomas Collins]

Whoops!

http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/funfacts/guantan.htm

[Captain Hate]

Welp I have no choice but to go OT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOellal73JA

[clarice]

Thanks, TC--I was fed false info.

[Miss Marple]

Two of my sisters have been to Guantanamo. One lived there with her Navy husband back in the early 80's; the other flew on a Navy transport plane to visit her.

The sister who lived there didn't like it, because she is not an outdoors person and wasn't one to swim, scuba dive, or get in the sun. I would have enjoyed it tremendously.

On the other hand, she did like the commissary, the post exchange, and the day trips to various islands.

[Iggy]

--I suppose it depends on the meaning of "I felt so good", but a reasonable guess is she didn't have a problem with the incident at the time and later considered it to be an amusing anecdote for Letterman.--

Michelle was intimidated by Letterman's white privilege. Per Blow, she probably didn't even know she was at the time and the gap-toothed-perv [h/t CH] probably didn't even know he was oozing it.

When white people and black people talk it takes several years for academics to formulate and understand what they said to each other and why.
And the people who said what they said really don't know what it is they actually said until that magical teachable moment arrives.
Michelle has now learned what she meant to say but didn't.
And now we all know what we're allowed to think about it too.
It's so much easier this way.

[Carol_Herman]

I'm not sure, but I think Charlie Blow was coupled up with John-John Kennedy, when the magazine "George" was created. When Kennedy, his wife and sister-in-law died in the plane crash he was piloting ... the magazine folded.

But Blow didn't get his start because of melanin, he got his start because he was connected to John Kennedy, Jr. (Who probably had no talent for editing a magazine. But had the connections to get one started.)

Michelle's story got composed as she ran around Target trying to "reach" a story her publishing friends would publish. Even her clothes were picked out for her. She not only came in with her "assistant." But brought a crew along that included a cameraman.

At 5--11" Michelle's height would be obvious to a shopper who couldn't reach the top shelf for merchandise she wanted to buy.

I'll assume the shopper was white. Because the product wasn't then stolen.

[Iggy]

Jeez.

[Captain Hate]

It took a lot of searching to find out the party affiliation of this guy; and yes, it's what you'd expect:

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/springfield_city_councilor_bud_7.html

[Carol_Herman]

I don't know what the big deal is about Cuba.

At least Limbaugh mentioned the cigars! When JFK knew he was going to put the embargo in place, he first ordered thousands of Cuban cigars.

I also knew back in the 1990's anybody who wanted to go to Cuba, from America (after the Soviet's failed). Was to fly to Canada. Cuba knew it couldn't stamp the American passports. Probably, people going to Cuba just used their driver's licenses to cross into Canada. And, there they got a "piece of paper" that let them fly on to Havana. (Half of Miami has already used that route!)

I don't see any big deal with Cuba, 90 miles offshore of the USA, having diplomatic openings put back into place.

The number one reason we have Las Vegas, was the closure of Havana to the mafia.

I had an aunt and uncle who visited Cuba way back when it was still legal. (End of the 1940's?) My aunt came back and told her sister (my mother), that they visited a whore house where a woman smoked a cigarette using her vagina. She was able to blow smoke rings! (Said my aunt to my mom, in one of those unforgettable stories kids can get to overhear.)

[Miss Marple]

It's really simple. We just have to look at what the current Obama narrative is, and then wait for the edited stories to appear.

They think we are stupid, so it never occurred to them that someone would have archived the Target story in its earlier form, nor that people could look it up. (Perhaps this is because THEY are so stupid they don't know how to do this.)

They also are counting on the press not checking past comments or questioning them.
Laura Bush wouldn't have gotten away with this BS, for example. The press would have been all over the contradictions.

The Obamas are disgusting people.

[Danube on iPad]

In August of 1962 the brand-new DDG to which I had just reported as a fresh-caught Ensign stopped at Gitmo to refuel on her way around to her homeport of San Diego. It was a Friday afternoon, and we were to remain overnight. I went ashore to the Navy Exchange and bought the very first Bob Dylan album.

Then I proceeded to the Officers' Club, where I discovered that at Friday Happy Hour all rum drinks were five cents. In those circumstances a man has to get drunk to save money. That's what I did.

[Jane on Ipad]

How did we get Gitmo to begin with? Treaty?

[Iggy]

Double jeez.

[clarice]

The best of MSNBC:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKT_iwg9xbY#t=58

[Jane on Ipad]

I hate it when I do that. Thanks TC.

[Coolpapa]

If you, like the Obamas, Sharptons, Jacksons, Holders, et al, continue to drive looking only through the rear-view mirror, you will eventually end up in a ditch.

[daddy]

Interesting link, TC.

If the text is accurate about these 2 items:

1)---(The 1934 Agreement) To the U.S. this means an “open-ended duration” that can only be terminated by mutual agreement (or when the U.S. chooses to do so).

2)---(The 1996 Helms/Burton Agreement--signed into Law by Bill Clinton) “the duration of the base,” as explained by Olga Miranda in her essay How To Exit the Guantánamo Treaty, “will now depend on whether Cuba has a government that Washington approves of.”

To this non-Lawyer, that seems like it plays into Obama's policy of ruling by Executive Order. (i.e.) he can give it back when he (Washington) wants to, and if he thinks Cuba has a Government that he (Washington) approves of.

All he needs is some speechwriters and photo-ops to play it up as the Anti-Racist, Anti-Imperialist feel good social justice theme of the day, with a couple of these thrown in for emphasis: 'It's the right thing to do."

Then do the photo-op tour of Havana to cheering crowds.

[Miss Marple]

Nytol.

[jimmyk]

I just have a feeling that Blow is an idiot.

[Eric in Boise]

bought the very first Bob Dylan album.

Wow. Still have it? I'd love a "six eye" Bob Dylan S/T to go with my original copy of "Freewheelin", but it's probably out of my reach.

[Joan]

Gosh, you guys, I had a kimchi story on the last post and you all ran off and left me.
:)

[Eric in Boise]

I had a kimchi story on the last post and you all ran off

Well, darn. That really stinks.

[daddy]

Joan,

If you'll excuse me I'll repost your Kimchi story since it was a good one:)

I ordered a kimchi one time (hoping the probiotic might be good for me.) It was shipped next day air and arrived in a wrapped and boxed Styrofoam container. When I carried it inside and placed it on the kitchen counter, I smelled something "dead" so I took it outside to open it. Oh my goodness, it was as if I'd opened a box with a head inside. Greenish white, with eyes--and the most ghastly odor. I slapped the top back on the container and left it outside (hot weather.) It was so revolting I couldn't touch it. I left it outside and asked my husband to throw it away for me when he got home from work. :) He told me he would--if I promised never to buy/order anything like that again. I was certain kimchi was going to make me healthy. :)

My brother-in-law used to go to Korea quite often for the old Cities Service Oil Company, and he said sometimes the kimchi "pots" ?? would explode. Wonder how their neighborhoods smelled? :)

Posted by: Joan

[Joan]

Oh, thanks, Daddy. :) I seldom think of anything to say on here -- except when I get mad, and, thankfully, I haven't been steamed up about politics for a couple of weeks -- doesn't seem to do any good.

[Joan]

Oh, and Eric, that is really funny! It did stink. :)

[Sandy "I Stand with Walker 2016" Daze ن]

Was at GitMo in 94 associated with Operation Uphold Democracy. Arrived Golfe de la Gonave on USS America and after about a month were were relocated to the Leeward Point Gitmo.

FWIW - I agree with those who think that he wants to give back GitMo.

Bastard.

[Stephanie - Should a man offer a lady a tiparillo to celebrate? Rapist!]

It's Christmas and y'all are posting about kimchee? Ain't it time for some recipes? NOT for kimchee BTW.

I'm at an impass. It's too humid to make divinity, and I can't decide on what kind of cookies to make other than a second batch of Pumpkin Spice. Sugar cookies are just so blah. Suggestions? Spritz cookies? I'm loaded with decorations for cookies, but I just can't get motivated to make sugar cookies. Humbug.

[daddy]

Me too Joan,

I have a heck of a time staying on topic since it usually flames me off:)

Speaking of going OT...

The Traveling Kimchi seems to be the logo of a Half-Korean/Half-Irish gal from Austin, Texas who is a Law student in Korea, and in the attached link she sings a tune accompanied by a guy playing a decent ukelele.

Wonder if she does any Christmas numbers?

[Stephanie - Should a man offer a lady a tiparillo to celebrate? Rapist!]

He'll also take a swipe at Bush by saying we need to 'divest ourselves of the memories of that awful legacy of torture at Gitmo.'

[Stephanie - Should a man offer a lady a tiparillo to celebrate? Rapist!]

2004: America, f*** yeah!
2014: F*** America? Yeah…

http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/18/patton-oswalt-a-tale-of-two-tweets/

[Danube on iPad]

"Wow. Still have it?"

I did until our latest move, but then I think I got rid of all 33 RPMs. "I Am A Man Of Constant Sorrow," etc.

[Danube on iPad]

What is the position of Obama's justice department concerning the return of fugitive convicted murderess Joanne Chesimard?

[daddy]

He'll also take a swipe at Bush by saying we need to 'divest ourselves of the memories of that awful legacy of torture at Gitmo.'

Absolutely, Stephanie.

There have to be tons of Lefty speech writers out there just dying to write his "We apologize to Cuba and the World speech." I think even Peggy Noonan would kill for the chance to pen it, and Chris Matthews and David Brooks would pee their pant-crease all over again in homage.

Brooks would claims he's the reincarnation of JFK. Matthews that he's the reincarnation of MLK.

[Iggy]

--If you, like the Obamas, Sharptons, Jacksons, Holders, et al, continue to drive looking only through the rear-view mirror, you will eventually end up in a ditch.--

As long as Barry's buyin' the Slurpees I'm OK, otherwise...what are you talking about?

As an aside; if you can look through a mirror is it really a mirror?

[jimmyk]

Michelle has now learned what she meant to say but didn't.

Sounds like one of those "recovered memories" that they pushed on kids from the Fells Acre case. I'm sure the racism was so painful for her that she suppressed it for years, and only now can come to terms with it.

[jimmyk]

So is giving back Gitmo another one of these things that Barry can just decide to do without any consultation or authorization from Congress? The quotes from TC's link that daddy posted above don't make it clear whether an act of Congress would be required.

[Eric in Boise]

Thanks, DoT. Would have loved to be on the receiving end of some of that, as a vinyl collector. Take care.

[Danube on iPad]

Largest GOP House majority since 1928.

1928. Something must be getting through somewhere.

[Sandy "I Stand with Walker 2016" Daze ن]

I can think of only one way that will stop the executive.

[Eric in Boise]

"have been"

Screw the JoM style guide entry on forbidden corrections. Posting something like that drives me to distraction.

[Sandy "I Stand with Walker 2016" Daze ن]

Steph -

Rum balls
ginger snaps
Mini-mince pies
spritz, sure
peanut butter with the Hershy dark chocolate kiss on top

[Sandy "I Stand with Walker 2016" Daze ن]

dark chocolate kiss on top...

Sounds like a story from Beasts, "...there I was, I never expected this would happen to me..."

[jimmyk]

I can think of only one way that will stop the executive.

I can think of several, but only one legal one. :)

[clarice]

Knock yourself out:http://www.marthastewart.com/275359/holiday-cookies-for-santa/@center/307035/santas-workshop

Goodnight.

[Joe Kidd]

FWIW: https://www.facebook.com/joekiddone/posts/10202600938699314

[narciso]

I remember when Gitmo was hated because Haiti and were being interdicted, {this was around the time, a few good men came out, Robbins and Satan's on made a big deal, then '94 came, then it was all kosher, then 2002 and it became a Bete noise all over again

[Stephanie - Should a man offer a lady a tiparillo to celebrate? Rapist!]

Ohh good idea Sandy Daze. Thumbprint cookies. Some with chocolate some with raspberry preserves.

Thanks!

[Danube on iPad]

Nytol.

[Iggy]

AFAICT the 1996 Helms/Burton Act does not refer to Gitmo at all. It prevents the president from ending the economic embargo without congressional approval and only then if it is determined Cuba has established a transitional free government.

[narciso]

Autocorrect has gone all freudian, former spook asks a similar question about the released asset
that I had. A piece on Pajamas Media, reminds us Team America was Rudin ' s baby

[Iggy]

The Gitmo lease was established by an official, Senate approved treaty in '03 and then reaffirmed by a new superseding official treaty in '34.

I don't think even Barry is rash enough to take a bite out of that poison apple.

[daddy]

Watching the Megyn Kelly replay. She has on Mark Thiessen and he made a good comment but he got 1 word wrong:

Mark Thiessen: This has been a banner week for the worlds last Police States. First North Korea launches a cyber-attack on the United States and gets away with it, and forces Hollywood to unilaterally withdraw a movie. And now the Castro Brothers have succeeded in forcing the United States to unilaterally end 5 decades of isolation and we get nothing in return. Its terrible for the Cuban people, but it's even worse for the United States because it sends a signal to the world that we can be pushed around. Nine US Presidents stood up to Fidel Castro and Barrack Obama Blinked.

I think Mark needs to change that last word "Blinked," to "Winked."

[jimmyk]

Yeah, I'm not confident the info at TC's link is so reliable. The writer seems to have an agenda.

I don't know if this is more reliable, but it says: "The agreement, later confirmed by the Treaty of 1934 between the United States and Cuba, in effect gives the United States a perpetual lease on this reservation, capable of being voided only by our abandoning the area or by mutual agreement between the two countries." I wouldn't think a President could dissolve a treaty any more than he could ratify one, but what do I know?

[jimmyk]

"this" being
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/09/how-guantanamo-bay-became-the-place-the-us-keeps-detainees/279308/

[narciso]

That was around the time that Summer welles, Harvard ,04, and perhaps the highest ranking hay official at the time at State, was running Cuba

[Enlightened]

At a hospital today in Vacaville California, there was a black woman, and myself, a white woman. We spoke to each other about which floor we were going to. We both got off on the ground floor. As we exited, she said "Goodbye and I hope you have a very Merry Christmas". I replied "Thank you, and you do the same".

Now, according to FLOTUS, I acted in an ingrained, racist manner.

I am literally at a loss for words.

Now I will be truly racist and reiterate - only 690 days left of this stinking hag and her wussy husband :o}

[narciso]

There's a piece at Ricochet that ricochet the narrative is going for

[narciso]

Ridicules blow

[Carol_Herman]

Obama is looking for a legacy.

And, what'da ya got? The Orange lush. And, McTurtle.

As to Cuba, most people shrug. Plus, lots of men are looking forward to their first puff on a Cuban cigar. Rush says the Dominican Republic actually took over the growing of excellent tobacco. (A cigar needs different crops for the wrapper. And, the fillers.) They've had time to cultivate this crop. And, grow it! (Rush says the Dominicans will put up a fight!)

Is a Habanaros the Cuban cigar?

Plenty of Americans have gone to Cuba by traveling first to Canada. (Which is easy.) In Canada they get "paper" to fly to Cuba so they don't need passports. This trade's been going on since the Soviets failed in Cuba. (1991?)

Do the people who travel to Cuba stay overnight? I don't think so! Cuba doesn't even have enough chickens ... so a "chicken in every pot" happens about once a month.

There was once even an epidemic of blindness affecting adult males. And, females. That was due to the lack of vitamins in sufficient quantities ... in the diets.

Being a dictatorship, when the reason was discovered, Castro ordered every man and woman to drop their pants so they could get Vitamin B12 injections.

The Europeans knew about this.

Only in America was the news blacked out.

[Bori]

Jimmy K,

I will have to research to make sure but the Naval Base has a different status from other unincorporated territories of the US.

The US does not claim jurisdiction over the Naval Base's territory only as a leaseholder. Being a Naval Base it must obtain Congressional approval before closing so some Congressional action should be needed before Obama can surrendered it to Cuba.

[daddy]

I don't think even Barry is rash enough to take a bite out of that poison apple.

Iggy,

I do. I am confident in Obama's rash enthusiasm for doing whatever he can to continually put his domestic political enemies in situations where they will have to either boldly unite to fight back against him or sheepishly acquiesce to his un-Constitutional fait accompli's. I don't see the bold uniting, and I don't believe he does either.

Again I am talking thru my hat since I do not know the specifics of what was the difference between our bases in the Philippines and our Base in Gitmo. Both prizes were acquired in the Spanish American War from Spain. I need to know what was the Legal reasoning that allowed us to give back the Philippine Bases, and how that was different from Gitmo? How did that arrangement go from what I believe started as apples to apples, to being apples to oranges?

[Threadkiller]

The US does not claim jurisdiction over the Naval Base's territory only as a leaseholder. 

Agreement Between the United States and Cuba for the Lease of Lands for Coaling and Naval stations; February 23, 1903

...the United States shall exercise complete jurisdiction and control over and within...

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/dip_cuba002.asp

Courtesy of Cement Heads Anonymous.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/12/elected-officials-questioned-time-to.html

[Bori]

Before she died my mother would visit Cuba once a year, usually from Canada but at least twice from Mexico.

What Matt said earlier may apply to older Cubans but the younger generations are very different. For instance it used to be that the Cuban government would provide housing for newly married couples and a larger allowance of vouchers but it stopped doing that.

Those that are active in the Party do better but unless they show athletic or academic excellence the options are very few for them. Most are just resigned to their fate and do what they can to survive. Their is an entrepreneurial spirit but mostly it is geared to bartering for whatever goods and services are available.

[Threadkiller]

Most are just resigned to their fate and do what they can to survive. Their is an entrepreneurial spirit but mostly it is geared to bartering for whatever goods and services are available.

Recovery Summary

[Bori]

Courtesy of Cement Heads Anonymous.

You forgot the preceding line...

While on the one hand the United States recognizes the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of the Republic of Cuba over the above described areas of land and water, on the other hand the Republic of Cuba consents

Which means what I said, the US does not claim the territory is or was an unincorporated territory bound by the applicable Constitutional laws.

Our jurisdiction ends with the start and end with the "lease".

[Threadkiller]

Did the lease end?

[Threadkiller]

In 1936, the Canal Zone fell into a gap in the law, covered neither by the citizenship clause nor Revised Statutes section 1993 (passed as the Act of May 24, 1934), the only statute applicable to births to U.S. citizens outside the United States. As then-Representative John Sparkman explained in 1937: "the Canal Zone is not such foreign territory as to come under the law of 1855 [Revised Statutes section 1993] and, on the other hand, it is not part of the United States which would bring it within the fourteenth amendment." The problem was well known; Richard W. Flournoy's 1934 American Bar Association Journal article,Proposed Codification of Our Chaotic Nationality Laws, explained "we have no statutory provisions defining the nationality status of persons born in the Canal Zone . . . ."

http://www.michiganlawreview.org/articles/why-senator-john-mccain-cannot-be-president-eleven-months-and-a-hundred-yards-short-of-citizenship

[daddy]

For comparison, and as possible info re; precedents, we get this from WiKI (consider the source) about US Bases in the Philippines:

1898---The Spanish forces in the Philippines surrender to US Naval Forces

1901---President Theodore Roosevelt, a strong supporter of the establishment of a naval station at Subic Bay, issued an Executive Order establishing the Subic Bay Naval Reservation. (It becomes a major US Naval Base overseas.)

1945---Subic Bay was designated Naval Advance Unit No. 6, and become a submarine and motor torpedo boat base shortly after the Philippines were liberated from the Japanese...The nearby town, Olongapo, and its 9,000 Filipino residents remained under United States Navy administration when the remainder of the Philippines became independent on 4 July 1946

1947---The Military Bases Agreement of 1947

...signed by President Manuel A. Roxas and Paul V. McNutt, the United States high commissioner in the Philippines and concurred in by the Philippine Senate on March 26, 1947, and accepted and ratified by the US on January 21, 1948...In the United States, the administration decided to consider the bases pact an executive agreement, thus requiring no Senate approval.

...The agreement provides principally for the granting by the Philippines to the United States the right to retain the use of the bases in the Philippines...The Agreement was set for a period of 99 years...This agreement would undergo amendments over the years. Notably in the 1966 amendment, the agreement was cut down to 25 years of the unexpired portion of the 99 years, expiring in 1991.

1979---The Military Bases Agreement of 1947 was amended in 1979, (Jimmy Carter President) changing the role of the Americans at Subic Bay from landlord to guest. The amendment confirmed Philippine sovereignty over the base

1991---The Philippine Senate rejected a negotiated treaty that would allow an extension of the stay of the U.S. bases in the country.

The US packs up and leaves.

[Threadkiller]

Oops. That was meant for another thread.

[Davod]

Back to Cuba: Andy McCarthy has an excellent article about the trade embargo - part of which I include here.

"...In other words, it has been American policy for decades – the policy Obama says does not “work” – that the United States may and should provide significant aid as long as Cuba, in return, stops terrorizing its citizens, respects basic human and civil rights, respects democratic freedoms, refrains from arming terrorists and insurrectionists, liberalizes its economy, establishes a free press, and lays the groundwork for free and fair elections.

So, if that hasn’t “worked” to encourage Cuban reform, what is the president suggesting will “work”? Giving Cuba aid and legitimacy without requiring the regime to change? Why would we want to give an American taxpayer dime to, or help legitimize in any way, a regime that rejects these basic elements of a civilized society?

And has it occurred to the media and the president’s other apologists that American law and policy have not relentlessly mandated a blockade on and isolation of Cuba for all these years? All that had to happen to eliminate the restrictions, without any congressional action, was a halt to the persecution of the Cuban people by the Castro dictatorship.

The blockade is still in place because the Castro regime will not change and therefore Obama cannot make the required representations.

So, since the dictator will not change, what will “work” is for us to change? What will “work” is to give the dictator the recognition, the legitimacy, the aid, and the trade money in exchange for no reforms?

Why worry … just two more years of this, right?"

http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2014/12/18/what-part-of-keeping-cuba-isolated-has-not-worked/?singlepage=true

[BR]

OT - This Neuroscientist Is Trying to Upload His Entire Brain to a Computer

"... Steven Hawking and Elon Musk's theories that robots will supersede human intelligence and become our biggest existential threat, paints a pretty bleak vision of the future.
Neuroscientist Randal Koene has the answer. Instead of allowing robots to become our cold, lifeless overlords, why don't we just become partially robotic ourselves?"
___________

And guess who was his inspiration? Science Fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke.

If you look at this from outside of time, and backwards, you see these people as already being robots, artificials trying to sap humanity and the beginning was here and now with people like Clarke and this protege, causing untold misery back into history all over the universe with space wars, misuse of electronics, etc.

So, it's interesting to observe this at its beginning and throw the whole damn thing in reverse till it implodes and vanishes.

[daddy]

Perry Mason OT,

No skirts of consequence on tonights episode:(
Case of the Brazen Bequest--Dec 1961, but a dame named Maizie is given enough strong alcohol to get her good and lubed, and then poured into a Taxi to drive her somewhere to drunkenly embarrass Perry's Defendant. Anyhow, describing that episode Paul Drake says this to Perry and Della:

"There's more. It was also Haskell who saw to it that Maizie was stoned and then sent out to the Campus."

I did not know that the word "stoned" was used prior to DoT's Dylan LP he bought in Gitmo in '62 and listened to over nickel Cuba Libre's. And here I thought "stoned" referred only to marijuana highs, not alcohol benders.

Shows what I know.

Oh well, two questions for Danube:

1) Were you "stoned" in Gitmo in 1962?
2) On what?

:)

[BR]

Ha, Indians would ROFWL if they read this. Shhhht, don't tell him, past life memory proves experience and memory is not stored in that mushy shock absorber between his ears. Anyone who uses their body to think must be already half-robotic. Thought is not physical.

[BR]

1976

1973

Inception Date Unknown

"Made in China" - circa 20th Century Earth

[Bori]

Did the lease end?

Wrong question. Who has the authority to end the lease, that is the question.

Cubans want to end the lease, do we?

[daddy]

Cubans want to end the lease, do we?

Bori,

The question I suppose is who is "We"?

If "We" is the Congress, that's one thing, but if "We" is the Executive only, as appears to have been the case in the Philippines per that 1947 Agreement, then my non-legal mind thinks that using that as precedent, the Executive is "We," and thus can make that decision.

But even if he can't, my guess is that as Commander in Chief I think he could use the last 2 bolded sentences of Article 3 posted below, to essentially accomplish the same goal of shutting down Gitmo.

Here is the text of the 1934 “Treaty of Relations between Cuba and the United States.”
The full text of the relevant Article 3 is this:

Until the two contracting parties agree to the modification or abrogation of the stipulations of the agreement in regard to the lease to the United States of America of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations signed by the President of the Republic of Cuba on February 16, 1903, and by the President of the United States of America on the 23d day of the same month and year, the stipulations of that agreement with regard to the naval station of Guantanamo shall continue in effect. The supplementary agreement in regard to naval or coaling stations signed between the two Governments on July 2, 1903, also shall continue in effect in the same form and on the same conditions with respect to the naval station at Guantanamo. So long as the United States of America shall not abandon the said naval station of Guantanamo or the two Governments shall not agree to a modification of its present limits, the station shall continue to have the territorial area that it now has, with the limits that it has on the date of the signature of the present Treaty.

That appears to me to say that if the President as Commander in Chief decided to order all the troops and ships and dependents out of Gitmo, effectively abandoning the Naval Base, the US Base at Gitmo would be moot, or shrink to such a size as to be insignificant and worthless.

Hope we don't have to find out if I'm right.

[daddy]

Instead of allowing robots to become our cold, lifeless overlords, why don't we just become partially robotic ourselves?"

BR,

My problem with that is, would a Robot me have to obey the 3 Laws of Robotics?

Per Asimov:---The Three Laws are:

1) A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2) A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3) A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

I like 'em fine until I become the guy who has to obey 'em.

On the other hand, if there are enough Robot upsides, who cares about humans:

Turning off my conscious modulator now...

[Captain Hate]

Just what the hell is going on in McAwfulville?

http://weaselzippers.us/208522-virginia-dem-lawmaker-that-had-an-improper-sexual-relationship-with-a-teenager-to-resign-then-seek-seat-in-special-election/

Where is the damn outrage? This perv should be lynched instead of running for office. Where is the GOP on this? There should be wall to wall ads on what a scumbucket he is. Or is the GOPe punishing the state for turning on Forrest Gump?

[Janet]

Joe Kidd's link at 12:16 is interesting.

"...it only happened because, as The Gateway Pundit's Jim Hoft reported three years ago, she "tipped off AP photographer Charles Dharapak so that he would be at the store to memorialize the moment." Hoft's apt lede then: "Another staged moment in the lives of Barack and Michelle Obama."

[Extraneus]

Didn't someone say the short Klanswoman was an MSNBC producer or something?

[Miss Marple]

Janet,

Their whole lives are staged. They probably have computer files cataloging all events so they can reer to them for multiple purposes. For example, the Target event was first an "I'm just like you" event and now is a "racists are everywhere" event.

The narrative has changed and thus the meaning of the event changes to suit them.

And the press just goes along with this because they are in blind obedience.

[Janet]

I just have a feeling that Blow is an idiot.

Hah!

[Miss Marple]

Extraneus, According to her sister, the woman's husband works for MSNBC.

[clarice]

Right as predicted, Noonan on Cuba http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-cuban-regime-is-a-defeated-foe-1418946550

[Pagar]

http://babalublog.com/2014/12/18/quote-of-the-day-democratic-cubans-have-been-thoroughly-betrayed/

""Obama has been inconsiderate with our civil society, which confronts a tyrannical government. In Miami, in November of 2013, Barack Obama promised me and Bertha Soler that he would consult our civil society and all non-violent dissidents before taking any actions regarding Cuba. Obviously, this has not happened, and what did happen is all too real: democratic Cubans were not at all taken into account."

[Jeff Dobbs]

So . . . Rondo going to the Mavericks....

Yay Sue.

I usually don't follow the NBA until closer to the playoffs - so I'm just looking at the standings now. Holy cow, the Southwest division...

Memphis 21-4
Houston 19-6
Dallas 19-8
San Antonio 17-9
New Orleans 13-12

The division is a combined 89-39 - a .695 winning percentage.

For comparison, in 2013 there were 3 teams with a .695 winning percentage or better in all of the NBA.

Stupid Pelicans dragging the division down like that.