No Story For Old Men

In "No Country For Old Men", Tommy Lee Jones told a parable meant to encourage a potential witness to cooperate. His success led to this exchange:

Carla Jean Moss: Sheriff, was that a true story about Charlie Walser?

Ed Tom Bell: Who's Charlie Walser? Oh! Well... uh... a true story? I couldn't swear to every detail but it's certainly true that it is a story.

It's true that it is a story. That may be where we are headed on the Rolling Stone rape story by Sabrina Erdely. The story has certainly called attention to some serious problems, starting with a campus administration hopelessly conflicted in its roles as victim advocate, trial judge and jury, and defender of the school's reputation.

However, questions of journalistic practice and basic plausibility were raised by editor Richard Bradley.

Then we have three friends who talked to Jackie right after the rape, and apparently discouraged her from going to the hospital or the authorities because they might subsequently be banned from frat parties. Not one of them is named, or interviewed; so the three people who could allegedly corroborate the assault don’t.

Then there’s the fact that Jackie apparently knew two of her rapists, but they are not named, nor does Rubin Erdley contact them, which is basically a cardinal rule of journalism: If someone in your story is accused of something, you’d better do your damnedest to give them a chance to respond. There’s no sign that Rubin Erdley did so. Why not? Did she not know their names? Would Jackie not tell her? Because if Rubin Erdley knew their names and didn’t call them, that is horrible journalism and undermines confidence in her reporting. And if she didn’t know their names—well, we’re back in Patrick Witt-land again.

The question of whether Ms. Erdely contacted the alleged rapists was picked up on by Judith Shulevitz of The New Republic, Paul Farhi of the Washington Post, and Hannah Rosin of Slate.

But let me come back to the three friends whose behavior was so callous and status-oriented as to be literally unbelievable. From the story:

Disoriented, Jackie [the victim] burst out a side door, realized she was lost, and dialed a friend, screaming, "Something bad happened. I need you to come and find me!" Minutes later, her three best friends on campus – two boys and a girl (whose names are changed) – arrived to find Jackie on a nearby street corner, shaking. "What did they do to you? What did they make you do?" Jackie recalls her friend Randall demanding. Jackie shook her head and began to cry. The group looked at one another in a panic. They all knew about Jackie's date; the Phi Kappa Psi house loomed behind them. "We have to get her to the hospital," Randall said.

Their other two friends, however, weren't convinced. "Is that such a good idea?" she recalls Cindy asking. "Her reputation will be shot for the next four years." Andy seconded the opinion, adding that since he and Randall both planned to rush fraternities, they ought to think this through. The three friends launched into a heated discussion about the social price of reporting Jackie's rape, while Jackie stood beside them, mute in her bloody dress, wishing only to go back to her dorm room and fall into a deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened as Cindy prevailed over the group: "She's gonna be the girl who cried 'rape,' and we'll never be allowed into any frat party again."

Uh, wow. I suppose it's possible that Jackie was so distraught and disoriented that her friends mistook her for drunk, although how they ignored the blood is inexplicable. Or perhaps the three friends were themselves a bit liquored up and not inclined to go chat with the police, although that does not explain why they won't make an Emergency Room run.

And a third possibility is that Jackie is, well, misremembering this. For starters, as best I can tell the three friends are never quoted directly with their side of the story. We are offered some specifics on Randall:

Greek life is huge at UVA, with nearly one-third of undergrads belonging to a fraternity or sorority, so Jackie fears the backlash could be big – a "shitshow" predicted by her now-former friend Randall, who, citing his loyalty to his own frat, declined to be interviewed.

OK, I'll accept that "shitshow" came from Randall, but his prediction does not unambiguously mean he agrees with Jackie's version of events.

Andy and Cindy reappear a bit later as Jackie recounts her struggles with the aftermath of her horrific night:

She was having an especially difficult time figuring out how to process that awful night, because her small social circle seemed so underwhelmed. For the first month of school, Jackie had latched onto a crew of lighthearted social strivers, and her pals were now impatient for Jackie to rejoin the merriment. "You're still upset about that?" Andy asked one Friday night when Jackie was crying. Cindy, a self-declared hookup queen, said she didn't see why Jackie was so bent out of shape. "Why didn't you have fun with it?" Cindy asked. "A bunch of hot Phi Psi guys?" One of Jackie's friends told her, unconcerned, "Andy said you had a bad experience at a frat, and you've been a baby ever since."

I see Cindy and Andy being quoted, but those look a lot like Jackie's recollections. By way of comparison, earlier in the story we also see direct quotes from "Drew", the alleged rapist, even though we are sure that Ms. Erdely has not interviewed him. And Ms. Erdely did explain to Paul Fahri of the WaPo that she loosened journalistic conventions for dramatic effect:

The story does take one journalistic shortcut. The alleged assault, described in graphic detail, is presented largely without traditional qualifiers, such as “according to Jackie” or “allegedly.” The absence of such attribution or qualification leaves the impression that the events in question are undisputed facts, rather than accusations. Erdely said, however, that her writing style makes it clear that the events are being told from Jackie’s point of view.

Hmm. Apparently, that included putting quotes around what Jackie remembered other people saying. Fair enough, but why not get any of the three friends to describe that night in their own words? Or if they all refused to talk, then report that and let the chips fall.

A last but important bit of evidence calling into question the accuracy of the reporting on the three friends was dropped into a NY Times comment board several days ago:

Barbara Nordin       Charlottesville, VA 8 days ago

This is what Claire Kaplin [Kaplan - TM], a faculty member at the Women's Center whose title is Program Director of Gender Violence and Social Change, had to say on a Facebook thread:

I've learned from some of the students involved or interviewed that the reporter actually made some of that up. The scene about whether or not to go to the hospital never happened, and that when they wanted to take her to the police, she didn't want to go. That jibes with what I heard from administrators.

Then, in a second post, responding to another person in the thread, she wrote:

Cora

what I understand is that she [Jackie, the alleged victim] had much more support than the reporter stated. That some of the comments by friends were not said at all (the whole conversation telling her not to report). Both survivors were devastated when she called them to clear quotes. They learned that their "off the record" comments were not off the record. Also she really got the students riled up when she characterized them as passive, conservative, and not "radical" enough. You and I both recall some pretty creative protests from years past.

In other words, someone who should be at the forefront of advocating for victims of sexual violence is responding to the article, at least in part (and when she assumed, most likely, that others on the thread would agree with her), by (1) calling the alleged victim a liar, and (2) trashing the reporter's ethics.

Ms. Kaplan's UVA bio is here:

Claire Kaplan, Director of the Gender Violence and Social Change program, has been a feminist social justice activist for longer than she’d like to admit.

So just as described by Ms. Nordin, we have someone inclined to be sympathetic to the victim questioning aspects of the reporter's coverage. And since you ask, no, I cannot find the Facebook thread myself (probably a comment on my incompetence as a Facebook user, possibly a hint that the thread has since been deleted) but yes, I have an evidence-based belief that the comment appeared on Facebook as described. So yeah, Tweet me.

As with Ferguson, I hope we don't blur the lines between the symbol and the reality. Bret Stephens of the WSJ notes that with both UVA and Ferguson it is possible to accept the message even though the headline-grabbing story has problems:

UVA, Ferguson and Media Failure

Narratives and allegations are not facts, despite what the media would have us believe.

...

All of this [reaction to the Erdely piece] may do a great deal of good. With apologies to Bluto, there’s not a lot to be said in favor of Greek life, much less of the toxic blend of partying, drinking and hooking up. Nor is there much doubt that rape is a serious problem on college campuses, all the more so because an astonishing number of young men do not seem to understand that coerced sex is rape.

But using the Rolling Stone story as an opportunity to promote a worthy cause should not acquit the media from looking closely at the details of the story itself. And here there are some serious reasons to exercise caution.

...

Which isn’t to say that the rape did not happen, even if it may not have happened precisely in the way described in the piece. But it ought to raise a skeptical eyebrow. Mr. Bradley’s sharpest observation is that the journalistic fabrications that most often make it into print are those that “play into existing biases.” In the UVA case, he notes, those include biases against fraternities, men and the South—exactly the kinds of biases that led to the fabricated rape charges against the Duke lacrosse players in 2006.

Much the same could be said about other recent media sensations, Ferguson most of all. The killing of Michael Brown was many things, but for the media it was largely an opportunity to confirm an existing narrative, this one about trigger-happy cops, institutionalized racial disparities and the fate of young black men caught in between.

That narrative, also conforming to pre-existing biases, overwhelmed what ought to have been the only question worth answering: Was Darren Wilson justified in shooting Brown? If the media had stuck to answering that, the damage inflicted on the rest of Ferguson—not to mention all the squalid racial hucksterism that went with it—could have been avoided.

Pounding a specific story into the shape of a pre-formed narrative is a path to peril. As to the notion that the narrative was pre-formed, well, let's cut to the WaPo profile of Ms. Erdely:

Magazine writer Sabrina Rubin Erdely knew she wanted to write about sexual assaults at an elite university. What she didn’t know was which university.

So, for six weeks starting in June, Erdely interviewed students from across the country. She talked to people at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and her alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania. None of those schools felt quite right. But one did: the University of Virginia, a public school, Southern and genteel, brimming with what Erdely calls “super-smart kids” and steeped in the legacy of its founder, Thomas Jefferson.

What Erdely eventually found in Charlottesville shocked her, and it eventually shocked the nation.

It sounds like she wanted to do a bit more more than merely write about sexual assaults at prominent schools. Perhaps she kept looking until she found the facts she wanted, or near enough.

Fortunately, serious and supportive entities such as Slate and TNR might be able to get this story fully grounded without losing the central message.

ERRATA: I was among the early outrage group with the Duke Lacrosse story but switched sides in part due to the assurance of college age nieces and nephews that the initial reports were not accurate. Today, my analogous UVA sources insist that the Rolling Stone story is at worst "fake but accurate", if I may revive a glorious Times headline, so there's that.

Also, I can resist anything except temptation. This is from editor Richard Bradley:

Some years ago, when I was an editor at George magazine, I was unfortunate enough to work with the writer Stephen Glass on a number of articles. They proved to be fake, filled with fabrications, as was pretty much all of his work. The experience was painful but educational; it forced me to examine how easily I had been duped. 

And a bit later, describing a problematic detail in the Rolling Stone story:

A young woman is led into a “pitch-black” room. She is shoved by a man, who falls on her; they crash through a glass table and she lands in shards of glass.

...

The story of what happened to Jackie is similarly horrifying—and similarly incredible. Having been raped for three hours while lying in shards of glass “digging into her back”—three hours of which Jackie remembers every detail, despite the fact of the room’s pitch-blackness—she passes out and wakes up at 3 AM in an empty room.

Again: It’s possible. You can’t say it isn’t.

It's always the Shattered Glass with this guy. Although I do wonder, how drunk were these guys if they were willing to roll around in broken glass to rape this girl?  

I CAN SEE CLEARLY NOW: The invaluable Ashe Schow lets me segue to an objection I can answer:

I had some lingering questions about the account, namely some clarifying details about how Jackie was able to recognize someone in a supposedly “pitch black” room...

My guess is the room was dark and seemed "pitch-black" upon entry. Eventually her eyes adjusted and she could make out faces. Certainly, guys were reportedly able to grab and punch her in the darkness.

So why darken the room at all? Who knows?

MORE SKEPTICS: Jonah Goldberg:

Rolling Stone has published an incredible story about a rape at the University of Virginia. The story has sent shock waves around the country.

But when I say the story is incredible, I mean that in the literal, largely abandoned sense of the word. It is not credible — I don't believe it.

I am not saying terrible things don't happen. I don't think the author of the story, Sabrina Rubin Erdely, is deliberately fabricating facts, , nor do I believe that all of her reporting is wrong. There may in fact be an outrageously callous attitude toward sexual assaults at UVA. Rape, particularly date rape, may be a major problem there. I've talked to enough people with connections to the campus who think that part is credible enough.

 

But the central story isn't about a spontaneous alcohol-fueled case of some cretin refusing to take no for an answer (an inexcusable offense in my opinion). It is an account of a sober, well-planned gang rape by seven fraternity pledges at the direction of two members. If true, lots of people need to go to jail for decades — if.

 

Erik Wemple of the WaPo:

 

Rolling Stone whiffs in reporting on alleged rape

 

...

Yet Rolling Stone bears a great deal of responsibility for placing the credibility of the accuser in the spotlight, thanks to shortcomings in its own reporting. Consider that:

* Erdely didn’t talk to the alleged perpetrators of the attack, asThe Washington Post’s Paul Farhi has reported.

When asked repeatedly on that Slate podcast whether she’d interviewed the accused, Erdely sounded evasive.

...

The charge in this piece, however, is gang rape, and so requires every possible step to reach out and interview them, including e-mails, phone calls, certified letters, FedEx letters, UPS letters and, if all of that fails, a knock on the door. No effort short of all that qualifies as journalism.

As to the three friends: 

* Witnesses aren’t named.

Following the alleged incident, Jackie emerges from the Phi Kappa Psi house and huddles with three friends, whose names are changed in the piece. Why the pseudonymous treatment for the friends? Perhaps they feared that being identified would provide clues to the complete identity of Jackie; perhaps they just don’t want to get involved; one of them, “Randall,” tells Erdely that he doesn’t want to be interviewed because of “his loyalty to his own frat.” And perhaps they also couldn’t speak to the events in the room because they hadn’t witnessed them — and that makes the outreach to the alleged perpetrators all the more critical.

The Erik Wemple Blog has requested an interview with Erdely, which Rolling Stone has declined, though Erdely did speak to Slate and to The Post’s Farhi. Separately, we asked for an answer to this question about the friends. Rolling Stone spokeswoman Melissa Bruno told the Erik Wemple Blog that “dozens” of Jackie’s friends were indeed interviewed — some were on the record, and some wanted to remain nameless because “they were concerned about retaliation on campus.”

In her comments to Slate, Erdely said, “I spoke to, you know, virtually, all of her friends to find out what she had told them at various points.” So the stories matched up? Erdely was asked. “Well, I found it to be very consistent,” she replied. Then why wasn’t this information included in the story?

 Mr. Wemple also makes this important point:

That said, when Erdley asserts that “something happened” on that night in September 2012, she rests on firmer ground. On-the-record comments come from Rachel Soltis, a suitemate of Jackie in 2012, who says, “At the beginning of the year, she seemed like a normal, happy girl, always with friends. Then her door was closed all the time. We just figured she was out.” Soltis is also quoted this way: “The university ignores the problem to make itself look better. They should have done something in Jackie’s case. Me and several other people know exactly who did this to her. But they want to protect even the people who are doing these horrible things.”

If the story is one of administration indifference to a hoffific tale, as Ms. Erdely has argued to Slate, then the question is not whether the tale was true in all its details but whether the administration reacted appropriately despite not knowing whether it was true. Well, maybe.

Comments

[henry]

I guess I shouldn't read a story not for me.

[Cecil Turner]

First rule of war stories: Never let the truth get in the way of telling a good story.

As long as we're clear this is entertainment, it's all good.

[James D.]

If you start from the assumption that virtually any story in the MSM that's not both about, and backed up by, objective, unquestionable, verifable facts, is full of lies and distortions, and is written solely to push an agenda or propel the author's career without regard either to the truth, or to the damage the distortions and lies will do to their targets, then articles like the RS piece are a lot easier to understand.

[NKontheNovreboot]

CecilT-- I agree with that. Based on the Media's fraud in Iraq 'war crimes', Katrina, Obummer the 'light bringer' Ferguson, etc etc. I will assume this is a fabrication, until real evidence of whatever happened is produced. My 21yo daughter's take on this stuff? Boys are pigs... girls lie. That is the reality of college life today.

[Old Lurker]

Smart girl you got there, NK.

[Iggy]

I think I linked the original Rolling Stone article several days ago when it came out.

While reading it I remember that odd feeling of, on its face, a compelling story, but hovering behind it that uneasy feeling of manipulation and advocacy dressed up as straight reporting.

As usual Bret Stephens nails it.

[Danube on iPad]

Too long.

[Miss Marple]

While we are on the subject of journalistic malpractice, I would point out that the New York Times story about some GOP aide calling anti-amnesty people "the boxcar group" is totally unsourced and intentionally placed in the story to cause dissension within the GOP.

Whenever reading MSM pieces (particularly in the NYT or Washington Post) one must ALWAYS keep in mind that they use "unnamed sources" as a way to inject falsehoods into a story.

[Jack is Back!]

Rolling Stone is a good enough clue for me. Marginally fictitous and most likely exagerrated for their target audience.

Another mid-day laugh:

In the great days of the British Empire, a new commanding officer was sent to an African jungle outpost to relieve the retiring colonel. After welcoming his replacement and showing the usual courtesies (gin and tonic, cucumber sandwiches, etc.) that protocol decrees, the retiring colonel said, "You must meet my Adjutant, Captain Smithers, he's my right-hand man, he's really the strength of this office. His talent is simply boundless." Smithers was summoned and introduced to the new CO, who was surprised to meet a humpbacked, one eyed, toothless, hairless, scabbed and pockmarked specimen of humanity, a particularly unattractive man less than three feet tall.

”Smithers, old man, tell your new CO about yourself."

"Well, sir, I graduated with honours from Sandhurst, joined the regiment and won the Military Cross and Bar after three expeditions behind enemy lines. I've represented Great Britain in equestrian events, and won a Silver Medal in the middleweight division of the Olympics. I have researched the history of.....”

Here the colonel interrupted, "Yes, yes, never mind that, Smithers, he can find all that in your file. Tell him about the day you told the witch doctor to fuck off.”

[clarice]

You really fell initially for the Duke story, TM? I always thought you published your first post as a provocation. Live and learn.

[Jeff Dobbs]

This was the second to last straw:

Hit is clearly no help.
Posted by: Jane | November 22, 2014 at 09:06 PM

This, from the previous thread, was the last:

That Hit. always falling down on the job!
Posted by: Jane | December 02, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Kiwi has been purged from The List. There is no avenue for appeal. Decision is final.

[Soylent Red]

Boys are pigs... girls lie.

Thus has it ever been.

Although I do wonder, how drunk were these guys if they were willing to roll around in broken glass to rape this girl?

I dunno TM. I've occasionally contemplated crawling across broken glass to get away from some bimbo...

[steve]

How does a reporter who wants to write about a particular issue 'find' someone such as 'Jackie'? Is there a Facebook page where gang rape victims list their contact information in case someone wants to write a story about them? Do reporters call people at random hoping one of them reveals that she was was raped and agrees to be profiled for a story? Or does she somehow find someone who knows Jackie well enough to know what happened but is nonetheless willing to give Jackie up to a reporter?

[NKontheNovreboot]

OL-- and my little gal is blunt about it. Twice in the past 6 months she has sent a Prog aunt to the fainting couch expressing her views about 'rape culture.'

[sbw]

Happy birthday Clarice, and many many more, and to TS9 at a distance.

[MarkO]

Happy Birthday, Clarice.

[MarkO]

UVA story? Fake. Fake. Fake.

Then, again, UVA has always been a Duke wannabe.

[Captain Hate]

While we are on the subject of journalistic malpractice, I would point out that the New York Times story about some GOP aide calling anti-amnesty people "the boxcar group" is totally unsourced and intentionally placed in the story to cause dissension within the GOP.

If TM didn't slavishly report what they say, I'd have no idea that the NYT even exists anymore.

[Old Lurker]

NK's daughter...blunt?

Joke, right?

[Captain Hate]

UVA: Home of the empty trophy case. And Perky Katie.

[Old Lurker]

As a Virginia gentleman, MarkO, I will not rise to that bait in your 2:02...

[clarice]

Thanks.

When you start off with one of those "make a difference" journalists it's wise to take it all in with a gimlet eye, and I do on this one for sure.

[NKontheNovreboot]

OL@2:02-- heh... and she's stubborn and judgmental as well... I know... SHOCKA. Where the heck did she get those traits?

[Bori]

Or does she somehow find someone who knows Jackie well enough to know what happened but is nonetheless willing to give Jackie up to a reporter?

How about someone who heard about Jackie's story and is willing to fill-in the details? Or tell the story secondhand.

[Old Lurker]

Cap'n "And Perky Katie"

Alas, so true. And some very bad lawyers too. Though I think 100% of all MBAs from UVa are outstanding.

[MarkO]

The UVA article is like apocryphal religious stories that defy all reason and rational thought but make the adherents feel good.

That was the Rather "fake but accurate" story.

May someone sue The Rolling Stone out of existence. Of course, because no one is named, that won't happen. I wonder why no one is named?

[Tom Maguire]

You really fell initially for the Duke story, TM?

Lacrosse is affirmative action for suburban white kids who don't have the guts to be humiliated by their betters at football. Not that, as a track guy, I would say that to their faces...

[Jane]

Was it here that I read about how Opec 's lowering oil prices won't hurt fracking? If so, why?

[sbw]

Boys are pigs... girls lie

Translated: Boys are . . . focused... girls are, too.

[Jane]

Fine Hit. If it makes you feel good to harm a little puppy, so be it.

Harrumph!

[daddy]

Good Morning!

Insty links to Wretchard's latest.

By way of discussing whether if the name of the twice robbed, Hindu Quicky-Mart owner in Ferguson is never mentioned does he actually exist in the narrative, Wretchard mentions an interesting bit of Physics discussion between Einstein and Mach:

If nobody notices Indians and “Asians”, do they really exist? Ernst Mach once asked Albert Einstein a similar question.

Mach was an Austrian physicist whose name is used as a measurement of speed, as in “Mach 1,” the speed of sound at sea level. He was a contemporary of Einstein, to whom he suggested a thought experiment: What if there was only one object in the universe? Mach argued that it could not have a velocity, because according to the theory of relativity, you need at least two objects before you can measure their velocity relative to each other.

Taking this thought experiment a step further, if an object was alone in the universe, and it had no velocity, it could not have a measurable mass, because mass varies with velocity.

Mach concluded that inertial mass only exists because the universe contains multiple objects. When a gyroscope is spinning, it resists being pushed around because it is interacting with the Earth, the stars, and distant galaxies. If those objects didn’t exist, the gyroscope would have no inertia.

[daddy]

Sorry, I forgot the Obligatory Apu pic.

[henry]

Jane, most current fracking in ND and Texas is profitable down to $40 or something. Plus newer technology makes it cheaper over time. (As some articles I've seen explain it -- I don't know the details).

[daddy]

FOX is headlining a new study in the Headline ticker at the bottom of the TV Screen:

NEW STUDY: Small Successive Hits To A Young Persons Head Cause Damage

Who'd a thunk it?

[NKontheNovreboot]

TomM-- I'll relay your thoughts to the Darien LAX Association... they are sure to go over well. BTW the Duke Coach at the time of the idiocy was Mike Pressler, out of Wilton Ct. In 1990, Duke formed a search committee for a Lax coach, they invited a number of Duke LAX captains to the committee, one of them was the '84 captain and darien resident. When this all was going on I asked him what he thought. A serious and thoughtful man the '84 captain said: 1. He voted against Pressler because the reports were that Pressler was a big party guy in H.S. and Wash/Lee U, and he allowed his players to do whatever they wanted off of the field-- this was a recipe to embarass Duke my friend thought; and 2. While the LAX guys had committed no crime and were railroaded by the media and Duke faculty (plus the DA), what were they doing inviting strippers to their Frat house? How is that acceptable for men who put on the Duke shirt? That was one LAX captain's view anyway.

[Jane]

Henry,

I thought I saw something about how a halt in fracking is possible, while a halt in drilling is very costly. But I could be imagining it.

[Porchlight]

Duke lacrosse II.

The Duke story was also hinky from the beginning. I was too chicken to venture that opinion when it first broke, however.

[Jack is Back!]

daddy,

Its like coffee. Without it I wouldn't have the inertia to get up in the morning.

jane,

Don't know about the price that locks down fracking. Anyone know the break-even cost including rail transport? With the pipeline it could absorb at least 10-15% more impact. Seems to me OPEC would be committing collective economic suicide if they tried to bottom out the price. The frackers would just shutdown for the winter. And Russia, Venezuela and the sand box would be all a titter.

[Iggy]

Jane,
First read Everything the Liberals Have Told Us About Energy is Wrong, at the Federalist.

And then if you have the time read this long article at The Atlantic; What if We Never Run Out of Oil?

The second one is full of silly climate change concerns but recognizes hydrocarbons in one form or another are essentially limitless.

[Porchlight]

How does a reporter who wants to write about a particular issue 'find' someone such as 'Jackie'?

I think 'Jackie' usually finds the reporter, probably through mutual prog friends.

[FTL]

I do not disagree that pushing an agenda/narrative is at least somewhat behind these kinds of things, but I find it entertaining that honest people strain themselves looking for the reasons behind why liars tell lies.

Liars tell lies because they are liars. Please do not fall into the trap of projecting your values onto people who have none.

For liars like Obama, the Clintons, and "Winter Soldier in Cambodia" Kerry, I would bet that the primary reason behind their pervasive dishonesty is the satisfaction they derive from practicing deceit.

[NKontheNovreboot]

Porch-- in truth, for those of us from areas where LAX is the Uber Sport, the Duke allegations seemed very plausible.

[jimmyk]

How is that acceptable for men who put on the Duke shirt?

I had the impression it's not only acceptable but expected, if not mandatory.

[Iggy]

I would think the oil sands would be much more vulnerable to a prolonged drop in oil prices than shale oil or gas. You just plug an uneconomic well til it's economic again.

Oil sands are comparatively hugely labor, water, energy and infrastructure intensive.

[Porchlight]

The second one is full of silly climate change concerns but recognizes hydrocarbons in one form or another are essentially limitless.

Reading stuff like this always makes me wish Julian Simon were still alive.

[clarice]

TM--I'll never look at track stars the same way again.

As for frat boys inviting strippers to their houses, these days, to paraphrase Iowahawk it's the best thing to do --and get receipts, boys.

[Captain Hate]

Porch-- in truth, for those of us from areas where LAX is the Uber Sport, the Duke allegations seemed very plausible.

I thought they were crap and the story was full of holes from the get go.

[Porchlight]

Porch-- in truth, for those of us from areas where LAX is the Uber Sport, the Duke allegations seemed very plausible.

NK, I spent many years in ye olde Fairfielde, Conn. I still smelled BS from the beginning.

[Holly]

Happy Birthday, clarice, mrs hit, and top secret.

[NKontheNovreboot]

Porch-- it's gotten worse, well TomM's take about LAX boys is an indication.
For you Texans, I'm told the local Thanksgiving Day game between Darien-New Canaan HS drew 8,000 people last week ... 8,000 people for a Ct public HS game. Wow.

[Captain Hate]

Fucking retards. I just heard that some dipshit for the St Louis Rams saying the team won't punish their players for that crap hands up garbage because of their First Amendment rights. They were on the job and the First Amendment doesn't apply to them being disciplined by the team or league. The league regularly fines players for not having their socks on properly.

Idiots.

[matt]

As a former host of a couple of LAX parties in the day, I will refrain from comment. What goes on at LAX parties stays at LAX parties. I sampled other parties at Johns Hopkins and Long Island and found them to be equally enjoyable. No dead bodies and minimal hurling.

That the article in Rolling Stone is being savaged leads me to wonder if they even fact checked it. Her editor should have made sure of the facts before publishing.

[Porchlight]

8K - that is indeed a huge number for public HS football in CT, NK.

[Porchlight]

That the article in Rolling Stone is being savaged leads me to wonder if they even fact checked it.

If it is even possible to fact check it, given the lack of actual confirmable facts in it.

Which should have told them something.

[daddy]

Being a Multi-Culti guy I had decided not to wish Clarice a Happy Birthday, since as we all know the 7th Day Adventists don't celebrate Birthdays, because they consider celebrating Birthday's to be echoes of Pagan Cult Worship, and therefore who wants to offend the sensibilities of the Witnesses Witlesses, just to wish Clarice a Happy Birthday? Not me.

But then, following their beliefs in more depth, I came upon great Christian Father Origen, (3nd Century AD) explaining in more detail why Birthdays should not be celebrated:

"Origen [a writer of the third century C.E.] . . . insists that `of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below.'" -The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913, Vol. X, p. 709

Well the way I read Origen is that only sinners celebrate Birthdays.

But since we're all sinners, (me and Clarice included) what the Hell.

Happy Birthday, Clarice:)

[James D.]

I think that the team - and the league - would do well to remember that their paying audience is likely to be very offended by the idiotic gesture of the Rams players.

At some point, becoming the all-thugs-all-the-time league really will turn away enough of the audience to cost them real money.

[Captain Hate]

There's no tangible evidence that editors do anything other than fill in a spot on a masthead in current publications.

[matt]

Falling through a glass coffee table and not having your back shredded borders on the incredible. Getting raped in that position also sounds incredible. The pain would almost certainly have caused screaming beyond belief.

We had a case out here where the son of a senior deputy sheriff and his friends drugged and raped a girl while videotaping it. Luckily a witness or two called the local PD. Those kids are in the graybar hotel for a long time.

I have a hard time believing that in this day and age no one would speak out about such an atrocity regardless of frathouse loyalties.

If Holder wants to investigate something this sounds like a better use of resources. White privilege and all, y'know.

[Jane]

Thanks Iggy

[matt]

porch;

around 90 miles south of you or so there is a HS stadium that holds @ 30,000 that is often filled on both Friday and Saturday nights in the Fall.

Fooball is serious thing in Texas.

Here in SoCal the big games, which are now dominated by, ahem, the Catholic schools are ofter played at Anaheim Stadium.

[Captain Hate]

When Goodell first became kumishunur he got off to a good start by hammering some bad actors in a league that was still reeling from the likes of Rae Carruth, who was complicit in the murder of his pregnant girlfriend. After that he went full Costanza and almost every decision he makes is a terrible one.

[Iggy]

Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses are very different groups, daddy.

The former are an idiosyncratic but seemingly Christian group whereas the latter deny the divinity of Christ and are therefore not Christian within any meaningful or orthodox definition.

[James D.]

I have a hard time believing that in this day and age no one would speak out about such an atrocity regardless of frathouse loyalties.

I don't.

But I do find the allegations in the article to be beyond belief. I simply cannot imagine not one, but several (presumably wealthy and privileged) college men having sex atop and around jagged shards of broken glass and in the wreckage of a wood or metal table.

Even if they were all psychopathic enough to not care about what they were doing to the victim, I cannot imagine anyone being so drunk that they would not care about being cut by sharp pieces of broken glass or bruised by the metal remnants of the table. And if they were that drunk (or otherwise high), I can't imagine how they would have been able to perform sexually - or do anything else that required even the slightest degree of physical coordination.

[Iggy]

The clothes-horse metrosexual is being replaced by the body obsessed "spornosexual".

In neither case does actually appreciating or even noticing women seem to be a priority.

[NKontheNovreboot]

A UVa Lax player.. Chevy Chase bred... did murder a female LAX player in April '11. Horrible and inexplicable things happen, but I continue to assume the majority of the particulars of this story are false in whole or substantially.

[Eric Stratton]

The other unbelievable alleged fact in the article: Six college boys raped a girl for three hours? 30 minutes each? I don't think so.

[Captain Hate]

O/T Is anybody surprised that the NCAA four team playoff is just as contentious and fraught with feelings of unfairness as the BCS and bowl systems? Not that it would be a magical remedy but I don't know why they didn't go with the same setup they have in Divs 2 and 3.

[kaiserderden]

Its all a fabrication ... something may have happened that night but none of the "facts" in the story are true ...

[Ben]

"deny the divinity of Christ and are therefore not Christian within any meaningful or orthodox definition."

Please cite your spurious evidence for same. While you're at it, include the ultra-orthodox nonsense of 'Rapture'.

[NKontheNovreboot]

Ahem... and the FCS, Div I-AA. Fordham at New Hampshire saturday, 2nd round playoff.

[solaris]

The reporter has already more-or-less admitted the story is a lie in the service of the Greater Good.

“I could address many of [the questions] individually . . . but by dwelling on this, you’re getting sidetracked,” she wrote in an e-mail response to The Post’s inquiry. “As I’ve already told you, the gang-rape scene that leads the story is the alarming account that Jackie — a person whom I found to be credible — told to me, told her friends, and importantly, what she told the UVA administration, which chose not to act on her allegations in any way — i.e., the overarching point of the article. THAT is the story: the culture that greeted her and so many other UVA women I interviewed, who came forward with allegations, only to be met with indifference.”

That is, she does not want to get "sidetracked" by discussions of the guilt (or even existence) of the alleged individuals, the story here in her eyes is "the culture that greeted her".

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

Here's some irony for ya...a man dressed up as a woman is gonna dismantle health & safety regulations for the abortion industry in Virginia!

http://www.operationrescue.org/archives/transgender-health-commissioner-making-final-push-to-gut-virginia-abortion-clinic-safety-laws/

Safeway better print the calories in their deli potato salad, damn it!...but a hallway wide enough for a gurney is too much for Planned Parenthood.

"The person who granted those variances, Dr. Marissa Levine, was recently promoted by McAuliffe to the post of State Health Commissioner. Levine, who was formerly known as “Mark Levine” prior to sex change procedures,..."

Pretend woman says big abortion doesn't need to follow health & safety regulations!

[Captain Hate]

Dammit, I always forget the FCS, which is all they use here and don't append the AA:

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/stat/iaa-bracket.htm

[Porchlight]

around 90 miles south of you or so there is a HS stadium that holds @ 30,000 that is often filled on both Friday and Saturday nights in the Fall.

Oh yes, I know. Even our local team, the Westlake Chaparrals (formerly QBed by Drew Brees), play regularly for 10K.

But for CT public HS football, 8K is a big deal.

Aren't they cute? ;)

[Some Guy]

I just heard that some dipshit for the St Louis Rams saying the team won't punish their players for that crap hands up garbage

If the 'Pants Up, Don't Loot' coalition were the Official Protest of the NFL™, then they'd get fined.

[daddy]

I love TM's passion when he get's on a mission in a post (as long as it doesn't involve me having to consider going on a diet).

Great energy, TM.

[PDinDetroit]

Happy Birthday, Clarice and Mrs Hit and TSK9 and PD's granddaughter! This PD is not ready for grand-kids just yet,,,

NK - glad to hear Blue is doing well. I have a Tri-Color Black Border Collie named Jake. Best dog a man could have, he is just happy all day long and minds very well. He was a rescue pup so no papers but I really wouldn't care about it anyways. Border Collies will take a "job" around the house if one is not assigned and he took up protecting the home - his "radar" goes off even before mine (except at 3 am when dad has a shotgun in hand).

JamesD - sounds like your Daisy is just like my Daisy - she would be happiest in a one cat home, she boxes the ears of the other cats in the home, and absolutely detests Sylvester (a Tuxedo Cat) and beats on him even though he outweighs her and is not declawed. This cat loves to hear the water "bubble" in the 3 gallon pet water station and will move it to the center of the kitchen just for the fun of it - talk about headstrong! You will find another cat, take the time to grieve and heal first - I lost 16 and 18 year old cats within the past 2 years and will not replace them.

Beasts - may your shots be true and putts be short, hope the round was fun.

As for Detroit and the power outage, the Joe Louis Arena lost half the lighting on Sunday afternoon during the last Red Wings home game, so not surprised about it. I do find it interesting that just a few blocks over in Greektown that the power was on in businesses (if the reporting was accurate). Detroit is already a tangled mess, can only imagine what the "power cords" look like (the most terrifying tangle of cords in a Data Closet comes to mind here...)

All right, all caught up.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

"the culture that greeted her".

Perhaps Sabrina Erdely's next story could be about a rotting journalist culture that is allowed to destroy the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity on "she said" evidence.

Erdely reminds me of the CBC.

[Dave (in MA)]

The Communisty Organizer just sold off a couple of ambassadorships to big money donors, and they were confirmed along party lines. The new Ambassador to Hungary is a soap opera producer with no ties to Hungary, and the new Ambassador to Argentina has never visited Argentina, but they're both big fundraisers, so there's that.

[clarice]

Thanks , again--and , daddy, how did I know it was you from the get go?
I thought the LAX story was nonsense almost from the first.

[PDinDetroit]

NFL "Player" Darnell Dockett Posts Questionable Photo of Malia Obama on Instagram -asks when is her prom!

Waiting for the MSM outrage in 4..3..2..1..

LUN

[daddy]

Although I do wonder, how drunk were these guys if they were willing to roll around in broken glass to rape this girl?

Best story I know re: this sort of behavior, is a good friend (nameless) who was swapping spit with a Flight Stew in the elevator heading up to the hotel room, when she did a tad bit of regurgitation vomit in his mouth, and him having to decide whether to keep on going for it or call it a night.

One of the funniest stories ever, especially if you're 2 sheets to the wind and the character is relating it in his inimitable fashion to the usual suspects.

FWIW, I don't believe the broken glass story one bit.

[Iggy]

So?

[daddy]

Not that, as a track guy, I would say that to their faces...

TM,

What was your best time in the 440? Or were they doing the 400 Meters by the time you came along?

[Eric in Boise]

At least they're not claiming she had her hands up the whole time.

[Iggy]

Jeb Bush promises not to pander to conservatives if he runs in 2016.

Practicality is not, of course, the primary attribute many Republican primary voters look for in a presidential hopeful. Still, Mr. Bush noted, the viability of an unapologetically pragmatic bid has not been tested.

“Frankly, no one really knows that because it hasn’t been tried recently,” he said, prompting a round of knowing chuckles among the business executives in attendance.

Mr. Bush recognized what he had implied and quickly heaped praise on the last Republican nominee, Mitt Romney.

How many things wrong can a guy get in a couple of paragraphs?
My son with schizophrenia is more attached to reality than Jeb.
Jebo delenda est.

[Iggy]

--So?--

That was re whether stewardess barf sets or kills the mood.

[daddy]

Jane, most current fracking in ND and Texas is profitable down to $40 or something.

That jibes with what I heard yesterday from an Oil guy yesterday on a local Talk Show. He mentioned that there was a theory in the business that the Saudi's were pushing to get it down to a target of $40, and then to ride on their multi billion dollar reserve cushion while the Fracking business dried up. $40, according to the Oil guy was where it's seriously counter-productive cost wise for Fracking.

[Dave (in MA)]

regurgitation vomit

Is there another kind?

[Ben]

Saudis on point for destroying Petrodollar. Banksters choosing the best bridge to jump from.

[clarice]

OTOH, I read that unlike deep wells, fracking ops can be shut down and then restarted without much trouble or cost at all.

In the meantime, Iran, Russia and Venezuela are eatring merde.

[Annie Lennox]

how drunk were these guys if they were willing to roll around in broken glass

Well, you get used to it after a while.

[Thomas Collins]

"inviting strippers to their houses"

Real men go to the club, party in the VIP room with overpriced bottles of Dom and overpriced house fees (not stinting on tips to the strippers, of course), and then go to the mud wrestling pit. Real real men invite their wife or fiancée or girlfriend to witness all this (and indulge in a few lapdances themselves, if they want).

[Jeff Dobbs]

...or head to Maine for some zumba?

[MarkO]

Oh, TC. There are so few real men. "Eyes Wide Shut" seems like a dream to me now.

It's a fable. Written to avoid repercussion from any source. Total deniability.

[MarkO]

Eric,

You are so naughty. Maybe too naughty for the nice town of Boise.

[Extraneus]

lol @ 1:45, Jack.

I, too, have an ornery cat (well, it's my wife's), who has hissed at me from Day 1 and bullies our big German Shepherd to the point that the dog won't go up or down stairs or even cross a room if the cat is in the way.

A year or so ago, we got a cute little kitten who's been whipping the mean cat's ass ever since. (Nothing too nasty, but quite fun to watch.) She's great friends with the dog, too. They even sleep together. NTTAWWT.

[Old Lurker]

Hmmmm.

(CNSNews.com) – Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said in congressional testimony today that the Affordable Care Act--also known as Obamacare--will not apply to illegal aliens who are allowed to stay and work in the United States as a result of President Obama's executive action.
“Mr. Secretary, is it true that the illegal immigrants who are granted amnesty will not need to comply with the Affordable Care Act?” Rep. Lou Barlett (R-Pa.) asked Johnson at a House Homeland Security Committee hearing on President Barack Obama’s executive action on immigration.

“Those who are candidates for and are accepted into the Deferred Action Program will not be eligible for comprehensive health care, ACA,” Johnson responded.

Barletta then asked: “So therefore, an employer may have a decision to make: Do I keep the American worker and provide health insurance or pay a $3,000 fine or do I get rid of the American worker and hire someone who I do not have to provide health insurance, and I won’t get fined. Is that a possibility?”

“I don’t see it that way,” Johnson said.

“You don’t think any employers will see it that way?” Barletta asked.

“I don’t think I see it that way. No. No, sir,” Johnson said.

[Old Lurker]

See what happens when you make the rules up as you go?

[MarkO]

"See what happens when you make the rules up as you go?"

That only works if you're smart.