The Smallest Straws In The Wind

Amidst the wreckage of the UVA rape story, a couple of details from the WaPo leave a flickering candle for, well, supporters of the Rolling Stone version of events. And do let me be clear upfront - any and all bashing of the Rolling Stone and their "editorial" process is fine with me, but I don't want to hear Word One criticizing an obviously traumatized young woman with a foggy memory. Her story may not be accurate, but it's not a lie if she believes it, is where I am coming from.

So, on to a couple of intriguing details. The gist - the identification of Phi Kappa Psi was always problematic and the non-Phi Psi frat guy that the WaPo did identify is hardly cleared, at least based on their reporting.

From the WaPo story it seems like we can dismiss Phi Kappa Psi as the scene of the alleged incident - they claim they did not have a social event that night, nor anyone working at the Aquatic Center in the fall of 2012.

But why do we think that Phi Kappa Psi is the frat in question? Well, because that is what Jackie told the Rolling Stone, but here is the WaPo:

Jackie contradicted an earlier interview, saying on Thursday that she did not know if her main attacker actually was a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

“He never said he was in Phi Psi,” she said, while noting that she was positive that the date function and attack occurred at the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity house on Sept. 28, 2012. “I know it was Phi Psi because a year afterward my friend pointed out the building to me and said that’s where it happened.”

That was it - a friend pointed it out? My guess is that the only people in a position to point out the house where the incident occurred are the three friends who bailed her out on the night in question. Are there other frat houses nearby? Just for example, Delta Upsilon is right next door at 171 Madison Lane (230 feet, per Google maps/ Phi Kappa Psi is at 159 Madison Lane, and why are we back to Mad Men?). Why couldn't Jackie have wandered a bit, or met her friends at the convenient nearby park? 

Let's come back to that, and learn about the search for the alleged assailant:

Earlier this week, Jackie revealed to friends for the first time the full name of her alleged attacker, a name she had never disclosed to anyone. But after looking into that person’s background, the group that had been among her closest supporters quickly began to raise suspicions about her account. The friends determined that the student that Jackie had named was not a member of Phi Kappa Psi and that other details about his background did not match up with information Jackie had disclosed earlier about her perpetrator.

The Post determined that the student Jackie named is not a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

Let me add that in their original version their final sentence ended as... "is not a member of Phi Kappa Psi and had never met her in person". They have since dropped that seemingly hard-to-prove claim. But they also offer this:

A name of an alleged attacker that Jackie provided to them for the first time this week, for example, turned out to be similar to the name of a student who belongs to a different fraternity, and no one by that name has been a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

Reached by phone, that man, a U-Va. graduate, said Friday that he did work at the Aquatic and Fitness Center and was familiar with Jackie’s name. He said, however, that he had never met Jackie in person and had never taken her on a date. He also said that he was not a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

Reached by telephone? Does he match the physical description of the alleged assailant? Was Skype broken? Does the guy have a yearbook photo? And, just wondering out loud here, were they expecting he would say, "Yeah, glad you called, I led that horrific gang rape everyone is buzzing about"? We *might* be talking about a psychopath who is manipulative and a smooth liar. Put another way, what do we suppose Ted Bundy would have said if the WaPo got him on the line?

If the WaPo wants to back away from the conclusion that this guy has never met Jackie, maybe they should tell us where they are in verifying what non-relationship their guy and Jackie might have had. And while they are at it, what frat he is in? (I am having distant memories of fraternity pranksters agreeing in advance that in the event of awkwardness they would refer to each other as members of some rival frat. Again, just saying.)

If we are playing at journalist let's agree that there are some small cracks in this WaPo expose that could (and probably will) be resolved promptly. I am delighted to see Phi Kappa Psi cleared; I am having a harder time believing that nothing of consequence happened to Jackie.

Comments

[NKontheNovreboot]

"Are there other frat houses nearby? Just for example, Delta Upsilon is right next door at 171 Madison Lane (230 feet, per Google maps/ Phi Kappa Psi is at 159 Madison Lane, and why are we back to Mad Men?). Why couldn't Jackie have wandered a bit, or met her friends at the convenient nearby park? "

Oh Jeez, Maguire is doing the obsess with the possible 'facts' thing again. How many angels will he make dance on this pin?

[RickB]

"I am having a harder time believing that nothing of consequence happened to Jackie."

Gimme a list of the classes she took and the names of her featherpassers and I'll take a stab at guessing "what happened to Jackie". It may even involve more than the standard mind rape perpetuated every day on most college campuses.

[NKontheNovreboot]

RickB-- I'll have to introduce Maguire to my daughter "... all girls lie." The Oberlin radio gal explained this for all of us.... the Jackie girl did something incredibly stupid and humiliating, and now feels horrible remorse. So she lied about it. How hard is this? Is this anything new... how long ago was 'To Kill a Mockingbird' written?

[Mad Jack]

Related to the last post - did Jackie say she actually got into Brown? But couldn't go because the family couldn't afford Ivy League tuition? The Ivy's may be a lot of things I don't like but they are very generous with student aid. When we toured Brown with my boys I was complaining that it was a Commie institution but when the Admissions lass said parents with AGI under 200K were only expected to contribute 10% to tuition and no student loans I was happy to let the Commies pick up the tab. Alas, they never bothered to apply.
Without knowing anything about her family circumstances I'm not in a position to question her version of why she went to UVA but I can't imagine UVA nets out as cheaper then an Ivy for non-1%ers.

[Mad Jack]

Off for beverages with my UVA Class of '80 buddie. This should be entertaining.

[Tom Maguire]

How many angels will he make dance on this pin?

How many do you want? Right now I feel good for at least three or four, although the caffeine should wear off soon (if there is a G*d in Heaven...)

the Jackie girl did something incredibly stupid and humiliating, and now feels horrible remorse. So she lied about it. How hard is this?

That is almost surely right, but the WaPo doesn't get there. What, I can't play journalist critic too?

[Iggy]

The hottest stories are always the ones where there is a potential socio-political application and no one has any idea what actually happened and so projects whatever they please onto them.
All sides hope their projected version is right and if it turns out it isn't it won't make a bit of difference the next time some unknowable story pops up.

Most of the appeal is in the tension as the story unfolds to see if our world view is confirmed or destroyed.

Current events or the Weekly Reader as soap opera; only our personal stake is our belief system not some glamorous character we identify with although even then we can identify with Trayvon or George or whoever the pro-antagonists are to the point we sometimes start calling complete strangers we know nothing about by their first names.

Kinda sick when you get right down to it; for no other reason than no anecdote confirms or denies much of anything.

[narciso]

asking rhetorical questions:

http://www.france24.com/en/reporters-20141205-france-jewish-population-jews-attacks-anti-semitism-emigration-israel/

specially as a Nusra Front outfit, Pearl of Hope, has been charged,

[Beasts of England]

This is the first I've heard of this story...

[MarkO]

Words fail.

[MarkO]

Support for TM?

Melissa McEwan ‏@Shakestweetz

I can't state this more emphatically: If Jackie's story is partially or wholly untrue, it doesn't validate the reasons for disbelieving her.

[Danube on iPad]

Any day on which the WaPo, Rolling Stone and The New Republic all absorb savage dubbings is a banner day in this sports scribe's book.

[Iggy]

Utah commissions study on what would happen if Fed land in UT other than national parks, monuments and wilderness areas were transferred to the state.
Result? If they didn't sell any land they would still make a profit and take better care of it than the Feds.
Self serving? Presumably no more than claims to the contrary.

[Iggy]

-- If Jackie's story is partially or wholly untrue, it doesn't validate the reasons for disbelieving her.--

Pretty sure it validates some.

[MarkO]

Wait. More corroboration:

Sally KohnVerified account
‏@sallykohn

What I will certainly not apologize for my is instinct to trust women & their stories, esp in a society that routinely does the opposite

[Iggy]

Women must be bolstered knowing a big manly man like Sally Kohn is on their side.

If she'd let her beard grow she could be a lumbersexual too.

[Eric in Boise]

Still trying to figure why Sally's Kohn's parents gave him that stupid name.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

a comment at the WaPo -

fallingstar1971
6:12 PM EST
"Any women that falsely accuses someone for Rape and it is proven false, should face the SAME PENALTY the accused would have faced had he been found guilty. SAME PENALTY.

This would stop tomorrow"

[Jack is Back!]

OT: How Sports in America Evolved. Watch tot he End:)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eqLB8wyrE_A

[Tom Maguire]

Support for TM?

Melissa McEwan ‏@Shakestweetz
...
et al

Some combination of "Politics makes strange bedfellows" and "I made my bed, now lie in it - or run!" comes to mind.

Well. I know what side I am on (that would be "Truth and Justice", for those lacking a scorecard. And the Yankees.) - they can be on any side they choose.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

the Jackie girl did something incredibly stupid and humiliating, and now feels horrible remorse. So she lied about it. How hard is this?

Exactly.

[Beasts of England]

A boy named Sally.

#HillaryCountrySongs

[Extraneus]

James O'Keefe confronts an accuser

Guess what happens.

YouTube

[Extraneus]

Whistleblower alleges agency cover-up over $300M ‘boondoggle’ to protect Obama nominee

Senior officials at the Social Security Administration (SSA) tried to hide a damning report on a $300 million computer system that lawmakers have called a “boondoggle” in order to protect President Obama’s nominee to lead the agency, a whistleblower claimed in an interview with FoxNews.com.

Whistleblower Michael Keegan told FoxNews.com that McKinsey & Company, a consulting firm, issued a draft report in December 2013 saying the agency had spent $288 million over six years for a new computer system processing disability claims that has yet to launch.

But Keegan said he was present at a meeting of senior officials in May of this year where they decided to sit on the report as long as Carolyn Colvin’s nomination for commissioner was pending.

“They hid the report,” he told FoxNews.com.

[Jack is Back!]

Mass resignations at The New Republic and I mean MASS.

Was up?

[Jane]

Holy cow.

I should probably stop there.

Off for beverages with my UVA Class of '80 buddie. This should be entertaining.

Oh good, something to look forward to.

Any day on which the WaPo, Rolling Stone and The New Republic all absorb savage dubbings is a banner day in this sports scribe's book.

Mine too. But can't we get the NY Times in on the glory?

@sallykohn

What I will certainly not apologize for my is instinct to trust women & their stories, esp in a society that routinely does the opposite

Geez you make me embarrassed to be a chick.

"Any women that falsely accuses someone for Rape and it is proven false, should face the SAME PENALTY the accused would have faced had he been found guilty. SAME PENALTY.

Or more if someone gets wrongly convicted.

It's all just yucky.

[NKontheNovreboot]

Maguire@6:04-- just funnin' ya big guy. Personally I get a kick out of your dissecting facts to probe narratives. Plus this particular thread has resulted in some hysterical comments.

Additionally, and I would hope this is not necessary, but speaking for myself, none of my snark is aimed at Jackie, or any girl who feels remorse for making a mistake. I am only mocking the Prog forces who want to wield that remorse to exact revenge against the idiot who created the remorse, and use 'University Boards' as a mechanism of college authority to effect that revenge. That Prog effort to redfine 'rape' and turn the concept of due process upside down are the objects of my disdain.

[rich@gmu]

>>>Was up?

Posted by: Jack is Back! | December 05, 2014 at 06:48 PM<<<

the facebook billionaire who now owns it, decided he liked the "brand" better than the staff and was going to move them to NYC and change the direction of the magazine. cutting the print edition to 10 print editions from 24 too.

[Iggy]

That Stranahan/O Keefe video is hilarious.
Libs have no idea what to do when somebody challenges them.

[Ben]

"James Okeefe"

You can't be serious.

[NKontheNovreboot]

TNR-- last thing I read by them was the Beauchamp fables. are their offices still at 1201 20th St NW-- I worked there for 1 year back in the day. Directly across the street from the Palm JiB!

[Threadkiller]

NEW YORK – Following confirmation by the National Archives that President Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the immigration policy he announced to the nation, Washington-based watchdog Judicial Watch has called for an investigation into whether the White House has engaged in a criminal conspiracy to spend taxpayer funds on unauthorized purposes.

“The fact that President Obama did not sign an executive order appears to involve a recognition by the White House that President Obama did not have the authority to make the changes in immigration law outlined in his Nov. 20 speech,” said Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch.

..........

He believes White House counsel concluded Obama lacked the authority to defer prosecutions under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, DACA, program and decided to implement the policy through a memorandum issued by Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. The memo was never filed with the Federal Register for a period of public comment, as federal law requires agencies to do when making rules.

“Jeh Johnson did the bidding of his boss, engaging in a political act, not a legal act, that involves misappropriating public funds to open offices and hire employees to implement the directives of Johnson’s memorandum,” Fitton said.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/watchdog-executive-order-ploy-criminal-conspiracy/

When will these loons gjve up?

[Danube on iPad]

"If Jackie's story is partially or wholly untrue, it doesn't validate the reasons for disbelieving her."

I can't be sure what the author of that statement means to say. The fact that a story is untrue is not cause to disbelieve it?

[Buford Gooch]

Having consensual sex (even if drunk or high) with a group of young men is likely to make one feel immense remorse. Easy to turn it into an accusation of gang rape. Adding embellishments could make one feel better, and think it a more convincing lie.

Am I saying this is what happened? Of course not.

[Miss Marple]

One thing that also should be considered about Jackie is the onset of a mental illness like schizophrenia.

Something happened to her, or she THINKS something happened to her. I would suggest she needs psychiatric care rather than meetings with a reporter or an affirmation group. She might need serious medical treatment.

[Danube on iPad]

"esp in a society that routinely does the opposite"

Surely Ms. Kohn has the Juanita Broaddrick case in mind.

[anonamom]

Do we even know for certain that there is a Jackie?

[Extraneus]

"If Jackie's story is partially or wholly untrue, it doesn't validate the reasons for disbelieving her."

I think it's the "reasons" for disbelieving her that are at issue in that sentence. See, we'd instinctively disbelieve her because we're part of the pro-rape patriarchy. It's not that we really disbelieve her, though [wink, wink]. It's just that since we're pro-rape, we don't like it when they complain.

[Ben]

" She might need serious medical treatment."

What she doesn't need is your untutored and uneducated speculations. Now go play with ebay.

[Miss Marple]

Will...not...respond.

[Jack is Back!]

NK,

But did you get your charaterure up on the wall? Most of those folks are dead now.

When do the bowl games begin?

Tonight is Sinterklaase in the JIB household and I have an eleven old true believer who is going to worry himself to sleep. Forgot to buy organs, so Sinterklasse and Zwarte Peet will have to do with a pear and cookies.

[Miss Marple]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/new-beverly-hills-riyadh-overruns-753288

Saudis and Chinese overrrun Beverly Hills.

[Jack is Back!]

.....caracterture......

[Iggy]

--The fact that a story is untrue is not cause to disbelieve it?--

I believe she means it doesn't validate the reasons people doubted Jackie's story if those reasons weren't "progressive".

[Jack is Back!]

.....oranges....

I hate iPad and autocorrect.

[Thomas Collins]

From the WaPo piece, it is clear that the student advocate and Rolling Stone writer pressured Jackie to go ahead with the interview. Whatever did or didn't happen to Jackie, it seems as if the advocate and the writer were pushing their own agenda to use this story as a narrative.

[Jack is Back!]

Iggy,

It's the Prog litmus test: Can you believe a lie if it advances our narrative?

[Extraneus]

And let's face it - the only reason we would believe a cop, or the forensic evidence that indicates he might be innocent, is because we're racists.

[Enlightened]

I'll believe her story if she shows her back which should have numerous scars from being raped viciously by several men all the while laying on broken glass shards. Her clothing would have been shredded. There would have been blood all over her back. And there is not a girl or woman, scared or not, that would take being raped or regretting her decision to screw some jerk who got rough, and decide not to report it because she would not be invited to any more frat parties. I also find it quite convenient that "Jackie" indicated 1 out of 3 women at UVA have been raped. That is the statement of a Rape Culture Advocate.

[Ben]

" it seems as if the advocate and the writer were pushing their own agenda to use this story as a narrative."

Jaysus. You truly believe the journo will shit-can career for a story?

You are stupid BAB. Next member of the stoopid?

[Miss Marple]

Why am I thinking of Dan Rather now?

[Iggy]

LOL, MM.

[Thomas Collins]

My oldest child was raped in college, Ben. I have personal and up close experience in dealing with people with various agendas, including smart ass college profs who fancy themselves as anarchists shaking up society to achieve their vision of a better world.

If you'd like to continue this in person, give me a call at 781-247-3163. Any time, any place, Professor.

[Some Guy]

You truly believe the journo will shit-can career for a story?

Dan Rather on Line 1 moron.

[rich@gmu]

>>>I can't be sure what the author of that statement means to say. The fact that a story is untrue is not cause to disbelieve it?

Posted by: Danube on iPad | December 05, 2014 at 07:17 PM<<<

Fake, but accurate.

The facts are wrong, but the narrative is right.

[Iggy]

Informative article at the Federalist on chokeholds and chest compression from a guy who works in mental health where it has been an issue for some time.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

This story really got me because I have a son in college in a fraternity & because this same lying crap was used against Americans that opposed Obamacare. I get accused of being a hater because I'm a Christian too.

a reminder of the WaPo's hesitant questioning on Dec. 2nd.

"In a much-cited piece, Richard Bradley, a former editor at George magazine, writes of his skepticism of Erdely’s piece because it plays to our biases about fraternities and college men. Surely it does, but that consideration shouldn’t be held against it."

Why not??? I am sick of the false underlying premises put out by the libs.
It is time to call out the MFM on their biases.

The girl is presumed to be telling the truth while those she slanders are assumed to be evil. It was the same with the liars of the Congressional Black Caucus about Americans at the Kill The Bill rally.

We have got to start conceding NOTHING. The left must give a specific individual's name & some facts...or they need to shut up & be called on their lies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2014/12/02/rolling-stone-whiffs-in-reporting-on-alleged-rape/

[Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

IMO, they are simply leftist propaganda spreaders. Nothing to do with journalism.

[rich@gmu]

>>>are their offices still at 1201 20th St NW<<<

not anymore. In Silicon Valley speak the new management wanted "to break shit". Yeah, another TMZ!

[Ben]

Pick up the phone Thomas, per your challenge.

[rich@gmu]

seriously?

[rich@gmu]

anyone watching the PAC 10 Championship tonight?

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

I wish Breitbart was alive to see James O'Keefe's continuing work & to see Rolling Stone's lies exposed.
The Breitbart site did great work on exposing Dunham too.

[Miss Marple]

Occupy/Gardner protesters are in Macy's in New York, tromping around with signs and yelling.

Merry Christmas.

[rich@gmu]

or the NIU BGSU battle on the gridiron.

[rich@gmu]

duh it is the PAC 12 ... Utah and Colorado.

[Iggy]

While we chase our tails over false/questionable narratives, the couple of thousand people left in Kobani try to survive as IS continues to turn the rubble into smaller rubble and we fly a few pointless sorties overhead.
Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.

[narciso]

Is there a day when some story is released, that is not in part or entirely a falsehood, whether it's this or Ferguson, or Bridgegate or Benghazi.

[RickB]

"That is the statement of a Rape Culture Advocate."

The absence of color in the fairy tale could lead one to consider Wymnz Creative Studies as the probable major. I await discovery of the blue dress prior to moving on to suggesting just putting ice on it.

I wonder whether Hillary has expressed an opinion on the Rape Culture? She certainly has the experience and background to do so.

[Jane]

Having consensual sex (even if drunk or high) with a group of young men

Do you think that happens a lot?

[Stephanie]

I suspect she had a lousy evening one night trying to get noticed at a social event or a bar and maybe got dissed by a frat guy (we don't even know if she was with anyone else that night - male or female) and made up a story to make herself feel better about the dis and it snowballed.

She got known around the 'advocate' groups and they shared their stories in mutual commiseration and she suddenly felt included in a group of some sort on campus and then as she got more confident around them she started embellishing the story as theirs were told (fish tales). Then someone suggested she talk to the reporter. Big time attention plus she couldn't say no without the advocate groups getting suspicious and she told her tale and as the advocate pressured her for details she wilted and had to be propped up.

I find it curious that she refused to name names until recently and held the reporter to a no names named standard for both herself and the accuser. Why? So he couldn't be contacted for the story to affirm or deny it happened. Plus, staying anonymous on campus she can continue to be the 'hero'/martyr within her advocate world where she is involved in a mutual validation of misery without any repercussions (like getting dropped from the martyr status)from having other folks come forward and say she wasn't where she said she was when she said she was.

Some girls/women love to play martyr and be petted and told how awesome their martyrdom is. Known a few and its sad to watch the downward spiral as they try to come to grips with the charade and the tightrope they walk.

[Stephanie]

She will continue to play martyr and be petted for as long as she can. That the 'advocate' quoted in the article is into doubts I place the martyr fail at Christmas break. Major bets she doesn't return to college for the spring semester. Also major bets that she has been using the martyrdom as a crutch for all other failings in her life.

[Danube on iPad]

Janet Cole on line 2.

Stephen Glass on line 3.

Holding....

[Thomas Collins]

Ben and I had an interesting talk on the phone. I hope Ben doesn't mind me saying that he was direct, focused and snark free. We left the call in what I would say was respectful differing assessments on issues we discussed.

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: Stephanie | December 05, 2014 at 08:13 PM-

problem with that it that she'd have to a. know her story wouldn't hold up under scrutiny and b. if caught, out she won't be at UVa for much longer.
(ie. the fraternity she accused can file an honor complaint against her for making false accusations and they could sue both Rolling Stone and the accuser-truth might not be a defense in college (and their weird disciplinary boards), but it usually works in a courtroom).

I'm not sure what to believe.*

*Other than the whole thing should be taken away from schools and referred out to the police. Real victims and real assaults aren't prosecuted (allowing for the inevitable escalation, an example of which happened right there in Charlottesville) and psychodrama gets elevated.

Posted by: Jane | December 05, 2014 at 08:13 PM

where to begin ...

beasts, where you at?

seriously though, the Porn culture is also an ugly undercurrent on campus, as bad as prescription drug abuse and alcohol abuse ...

[Sue]

I'm retry sure this was an episode of Law & Order, SVU.

[Sue]

Retry? Ok. I'm pretty sure...

[Ben]

It is gratifying to have a real-time conversation, Thomas.

Good to know we can disagree without intemperate asides.

Thanks for your reach-out. We all need more of that.

[Stephanie]

Jessica Valenti on Twitter:

This DOES NOT mean this woman lied about being raped - many victims have trouble recounting details of trauma

Except that she is crystal clear in when the non existent party occurred as the frat doesn't have any record of a party on that date.

I also find it interesting that she called the 'party' a 'date' party, so my question is this: if this was a 'date party' what the f were the dates that the other 4-6 guys had that night doing while they were supposedly getting their freak on? Frat date parties are usually formals, too and not general parties.

She also got the time of year for rush wrong for that campus and seems to have a limited knowledge of frats other than snippets that would be gleaned by movies, gossip and other second hand biased stuff she has heard/read/seen on tv and most of what she purports to know is wrong.

Can't wait for her descriptions of the devils and angels on her attackers shoulders...

[Danube on iPad]

I'll absolutely watch OSU v. Arizona. Those are two good teams, enjoyable to watch, and if you haven't seen them play you should. It's at Arizona, and their defense has given Mariotta real problems. Could throw the BCS into a cocked hat.

[Old Lurker]

Good job, TC and Ben.

[Stephanie]

Rich, yeah but she's been shielded from any consequences by the advocate groups and is still unknown to be 'the one' on campus because of that. Per the WaPo she is still attending classes and living in anonymity. The advocate groups have an omerta 'law' and she has flown under the radar til now and thought she was safe to continue the lie. Be a bitch when one of them realizes that the person they also shared their darkest hour with was a fraud and undeserving of having been the recipient of their own deepest darkest moments and they 'accidentally' disclose her to an outsider who conveniently has a really big mouth... and it will happen. Nothing like a female true believer getting frauded by an attention seeking martyr type for an onslaught of revenge.

[anonamom]

I stand with Janet.
TC--so sorry for your family's experience, and for anyone who is truly assaulted. I don't deny it happens, regularly. Allowing regretted sex to be called rape works against supporting crime victims.

We've had this discussion ad nauseum here, and it's been had elsewhere as well, but for the record:

There is not a rape culture on campus, there is a drunk culture on campus, fueled by a ridiculous legal drinking age.
That coupled with teenaged girls' lack of understanding of male sexuality, along with their strong desire (is it OK to say biologically driven?) to be part of a couple, causes them to get into situations where sexual contact is extremely likely to result. And having grown up in a popular culture that likens sexual intimacy to scratching an itch, there's not a whole lot stopping either person from satisfying the urge.
So when said girls find the result is not the coupling they sought, regret is very frequently the result.

That study which showed "one in five coeds raped"--two schools, self-reported, small response, with "unwanted physical contact" being counted. Yes, getting swatted on the butt was counted as a sexual assault.

But now we are supposed to pretend that regretted sex is rape, whenever the regret kicks in, and no matter what the facts pertaining to the encounter are.

I don't doubt that these girls feel like they've been raped---but they've been raped by the Left, not their classmate.

I agree with Megan McCardle--if you are raped, go to the police, and let the prosecutor put the guy in prison to stop him from raping another woman. If you have any doubt that that is what your situation warrants--then maybe you need to consider that you weren't raped.

[Eric in Boise]

Does TC/Ben's thing count as an official JoM meetup?

What does the style guide say about the absence of adult beverages?

[Comanche Voter]

I don't know. Some people--both female and male--are mentally fragile. Long ago I was practicing law in a big firm in Southern California. As an associate, you took what you got in the secretarial ranks--didn't have much choice. I was given a secretary who'd left a small town law firm in Northwestern Iowa. After the fact I suspect she'd had an affair with one of the Iowa lawyers that hadn't turned out well. So off she goes to a big city in Southern California--where, being a bit of a rural girl from a small town in Iowa, she didn't fit in well with the other secretaries (God knows what the rules among females are, because I sure don't).

I knew she was having difficulties (which is surprising in and of itself, because I never was among the most sensitive of men).

But an unhappy past--and an unhappy present, and one Monday morning I arrived to learn that she'd checked into the psychiatric ward at a local hospital and didn't expect to be out for several weeks.

I suspect that mental fragility wise, my ex secretary and the UVA "rape" victim are close sisters.

[rich@gmu]

it could, but I think if Arizona gets the win they'd get a slot easily. They'd be the PAC 12 champ with some impressive wins (although they'd go in with 2 losses and SEC sore heads would complain, because that is what we do).

[Enlightened]

And why does her story sound so remarkably similar to this:

"My story is typical. It is ordinary, normal and average. I was a first year student out at a party drinking in the fall, and a guy who insisted on walking me home invited me to hang out in his room, where he forced me down and raped me. It's not unusual -- practically commonplace. And that's terrifying.

From the "Rape Advocate" in Jackie's story.LUN

So we are to believe that UVA is such a nest of rapists, that 2 years after Jackie, 3 years after this gal, women still continue to enroll there. Call me a skeptic.

[sbw]

If Obama DIDN’T sign an Executive Order on immigration,
. . . and Congress signs a continuing resolution that funds Homeland Security as Jeh Johnson has implemented the non-existent Executive Order,
. . . will Congress inadvertently have authorized Obama’s immigration plan on its own?

[narciso]

yeah, what Mayor Slay said earlier:

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/12/05/st-louis-police-investigating-possible-hate-crime-in-bevo-neighborhood/

[Thomas Collins]

Well, Eric in Boise, I would say that the use of technology would not disqualify an interaction from being a JOM meetup. As far as adult beverages go, I'd say it's no more necessary to have adult beverages than it is to have a participant in a three piece suit on a treadmill (although anyone who visits me could be treated to that event).

Anonamom, it's a tough situation all around. Visiting hours are now laughed at, but colleges providing increased license apparently has not resulted in increased self-discipline.

[narciso]

shirley they can't be serious:

http://tass.ru/en/russia/765518

[rich@gmu]

Posted by: Stephanie | December 05, 2014 at 08:49 PM -

the whole sexual misconduct industry on college campuses is about as close to the Junior AntiSex League ...

[daddy]

that man, a U-Va. graduate, said Friday that he did work at the Aquatic and Fitness Center and was familiar with Jackie’s name. He said, however, that he had never met Jackie in person and had never taken her on a date. He also said that he was not a member of Phi Kappa Psi.

Seems to me we now know more about this guy than we know about President Obama's College career, so why do we need to know more?

[Eric in Boise]

Guess we'll score it as official, then, TC. :)

Seriously, I'm glad you were able to have a constructive discussion with our good friend Ben.

[Old Lurker]

How is your daughter doing, TC, if you don't mind my asking?

[Danube on iPad]

Correction: the game is at Levi Stadium in Santa Clara.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

from Breitbart April 2010 - http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2010/04/26/No-More-Beer-Summits--Tea-Party-N-Word-Incident-Didnt-Happen--And-the-Congressional-Black-Caucus-Owes-America-an-Apology

"It is a slander with real-world repercussions.

The absence of a real investigation by a press that played up the accusations is a more-than-tacit admission that they were hoping the allegations were true." ...

"Congressman Carson refuses to respond to our requests because he can’t answer questions that deserve answers. The press is drawing a line in the sand for those that are doing the job the press should be doing: “Are you calling a civil rights legend a liar?”

Unfortunately, I am. And the mainstream media are as complicit in this lie as Congressman Lewis."

[Stephanie]

If you offer a class on how to use a vibrator and your instructor offers assistance in correcting your technique, is it rape? Can you have remorse later and then define it as rape? Is the university creating a culture of rape for offering the class?

Agree with anonamom about the culture of drinking v the culture of rape.

[Thomas Collins]

I think she is fine, OL. It is not great that her assailant lives in the same general area that she does, but at least the young man was not allowed at her school during the time she was there (whether or not due to my efforts, I have no idea).

The rape happened at a frat party. But I have no particular animus towards frats. Rapes can happen anywhere, and so can events leading to false accusations. Jackie's story has particularly touched me because it brought back memories of individuals and group agendas.

I was never involved in frat life. I commuted to a school with frats and sororities (Brown University in Providence, RI). My youngest child was in a sorority, but I never encouraged or discouraged my kids from doing the Greek thing.

Notwithstanding my personal experience, I object to bureaucrats such as Teresa Sullivan referring to women who have made accusations of rape as "survivors" in the context of a case still under investigation.

[narciso]

So sorry to hear that, T.C,