Keystone, Veto Threats, And Constitutional Headscratching [UPDATED/Resolved]

When is a Presidential veto threat not a Presidentail veto threat? When it is presented as reported by The Hill:

The White House said on Tuesday that President Obama would veto legislation that approves construction of the Keystone XL pipeline if it passes Congress. 

"If this bill passes this Congress the president won't sign it either," White House press secretary Josh Earnest vowed Tuesday of the pending Keystone legislation.

The WaPo had this:

President Obama would veto a bill that would allow for the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline, the White House said Tuesday.

"If this bill passes this Congress, the president wouldn’t sign it," said White House press secretary Josh Earnest.

The NY Times also ran the 'won't sign" language. Until we see the full transcript (WhiteHouse.gov) for more context, that is the best we've got. And it's not good enough! [But the language in the UPDATE is a clear veto threat.] Lest you have forgotten your civics, here we go:

Bill becomes law without president's signature
When Congress is not adjourned, and the president fails to either sign or veto a bill sent to him by the end of the 10-day period, it becomes law without his signature.

We all remember the "pocket veto", where the President simply holds the bill while Congress adjourns within the ten-day window.

But a threat to "not sign" a bill is different from a threat to send it back with a veto message. Is this deliberate ambiguity, or just a chronic inability to articulate a clear message? well, if this is one more case of the mumble-mouths, at least it is only baffling a domestic audience and not, e.g, Putin or Kim Jong-Un. 

One would hope that our Capitol Hill reporters would appreciate these Constitutional distinctions in presenting the news and the nuance, but who knows? In any case, this sort of parsing will be the daily norm under President Hillarity, so let's warm up now.

Pending clarification, we score this a Hmm...

ERRATA: This is more than a century old but even Ezra can follow Article I Section VII; still, I emphasized the key bit:

Section. 7.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

UPDATE: From the National Journal:

"I can confirm that the president would not sign this bill," Earnest said at a White House press briefing when asked about legislation set to advance in Congress this week that would green-light the project.

"We indicated that the president would veto similar legislation considered by the previous Congress, and our position on this hasn't changed," Earnest said. "I would not anticipate that the president would sign this piece of legislation."

That is clear enough.

MAJOR PROPS TO AN UNNAMED REPORTER. From the WH transcript, after much back and forth:

Q    Thanks, Josh.  The language you used on the Keystone issue -- you said that the President would not sign it.  If I remember civics correctly, that's different from a veto.  Are we correct in reporting this as a veto threat?
 
MR. EARNEST:  Yes.

 

Comments

[cindyk on IPad]

First?!

[Ben]

Maybe you could use Keystone as a luge for thrill seekers until oil goes back to $100 in a few years. :)

[cindyk on IPad]

First?! I've done this twice!!

[Thomas Collins]

I don't think Josh Earnest is doing the Clintonian "is" thing here. It's a veto threat. Congress should take Obama up on this threat. It will put the House and Senate critters on record for the 2016 election.

[Thomas Collins]

I don't think Josh Earnest is doing the Clintonian "is" thing here. It's a veto threat. Congress should take Obama up on this threat. It will put the House and Senate critters on record for the 2016 election.

[Thomas Collins]

I don't think Josh Earnest is doing the Clintonian "is" thing here. It's a veto threat. Congress should take Obama up on this threat. It will put the House and Senate critters on record for the 2016 election.

[Thomas Collins]

Wow. I didn't realize what a strong opinion I had on the topic of this thread.

[lyle]

For those who think Boehner getting reelected as majority leader is not a set-back, I dare you to click this:

http://online.wsj.com/home-page

Go on, I dare you.

[rich@gmu]

can you repeat that TC? missed it the first time.

[rich@gmu]

poof ****

[Eric in Boise]

Looks like Typhus Pad is in "delay" mode again. Anybody know any Gregorian Chants, or at least how to yodel?

[cindyk on IPad]

Seriously....it's like am this really obnoxious date of someone where all the cool people hang out. You know the drill....I start telling me cute little antidote and someone (cough, cough) changes the subject. WELL Mr Maguire...here I am for time number three ( think little train that could)!

Posted on the previous threads:

Addressing Beester on my Morgana attributes the closest I can come is my long long legs....

Daddy: when my kids were young we were able to travel several times overseas, and thanks to my husbands excess of frequent flyer miles, and a good friend who was an agent with the airlines, we always flew first class. Many a trip we were on the upper deck of the 747. The first time we were flying coach as a family we turned the daughter (then 10) right towards economy. She then said in a very loud voice, "I am not sitting in the back with THESE people"!! Red faced and humiliated I steered her briskly toward her seat and we had a LONG discussion!!

As an aside, this delightful young women works with autistic teenagers and is the most caring compassionate person I know.....SIGH!!

[Danube on iPad]

RIP Ed Martin:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/05/vice-admiral-edward-martin-vietnam-pow/

[jimmyk]

Go on, I dare you.

Well, I guess we were warned. I take it Boehner didn't follow up that smooch with a swift gavel to her noggin?

[Dublindave]

Our man Boehner survives.

Better prepare this weeks envelope.

[lyle]

a swift gavel to her noggin

Why would he do that? She wouldn't feel a thing.

[Iggy]

Heh.

[Ben]

More 'DOOM' for End Timers. Heh.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/06/first-congress-boehner-election/21330229/

[rse]

http://blogs.cfr.org/renewing-america/2015/01/06/five-reasons-for-slow-growth/ came out from the Council on Foreign Relations today.

We have to be able to counter these bogus arguments for what is wrong. Clearly the elite want to continue to push government as the answer and are planning to build an economy around education, health care, and infrastructure. Just relying on the multiplier effect of unionized wages I guess.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

DoT - Thanks for sharing the story of your friend, Vice Admiral Martin, with all of us here.
It sounds like he was a wonderful officer, and a good man. Sorry for the loss of your friend.

[lyle]

Okay, I'll stipulate that I'm a small minded, vindictive, ignorant hick with hardened animus towards the fraud in in the WH. But, even if nary a one of you fits that description, (and good on you for that) I, again, dare you to click on this for just a cheap giggle. Scroll down for the pic.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/01/the_obama_renaissance_lasted_about_a_week.html

[jimmyk]

Why would he do that? She wouldn't feel a thing.

Ok, maybe use it to pound a stake through her heart.

[Jane]

Sorry Dot.

[lyle]

Ok, maybe use it to pound a stake through her heart.

Again, still wouldn't feel a thing.

[Ben]

"Now, let us take to heart the advice of Mr. Winston Wolf. The White House veto threat is not a categorical threat to the pipeline's construction. The president is saying that the bill in question is premature, that it is short-cutting established procedure that already is underway, and that it is an improper federal infringement upon the function of the state judiciary of Nebraska. The president has not eliminated any of his options. While his most recent public statements indicate that he has soured considerably on the death-funnel, if his own State Department review were to approve the construction of the pipeline, the president would have considerable cover, and the death-funnel's congressional fans would have a considerable weapon at their disposal. But this skirmish today does nothing more than illustrate (again) that the Keystone XL pipeline has become little more than a fetish object for the political right. It needs to be built simply to anger the people who don't want it to be built. It's like watching people waving carved wooden totems at each other while chanting spells unintelligible to the uninitiated. The fact is that the pipeline is inherently dangerous, that the fuel that it will carry is inherently poisonous, that the company seeking to build (and to profit by) the pipeline is inherently dishonest and that, until people in Nebraska started raising holy hell out on the prairie, the political process pushing the project was inherently fixed. None of these facts change no matter how devoutly you chant the spells. Those are the perils that the politicians who have lined up behind the death-funnel are willing to risk to hang a political scalp on the wall, the country's breadbasket be damned."

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/The_Pipeline_Veto

Fetishism sounds like fascism.

[Captain Hate]

Sorry for the loss of your friend.

He sounded like an incredible guy.

[RickB]

TC,

We're going to be watching the Fascists play the veto game for a while and it's important to remember they'll be gaming cloture, passage and override votes to minimize negative electoral impact. Senators can vote no on cloture, yes on passage, then finish up with a no on override and point to the passage vote as the "record". House members can vote yes on passage and no on override (if necessary) and then point to the passage vote.

Dunno if BOzo will veto but I doubt we'll see any vetos overridden.

[boatbuilder]

The libs tell us all the time how smart they are and how stupid the Republican base is. And yet their hero president has no qualms about feeding their base such self-evident bullshit as this "won't sign" ploy. TC's estimable opinion to the contrary, he isn't going to veto Keystone, but he wants the base to know that he's fighting for them. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee.

[Old Lurker]

TC has one opinion for each part of his treadmill suit.

[rich@gmu]

hummm ...

voting for a pipeline bill == fascism.

collaborating with environmental and railroad interests to prevent pipeline == just so darned good and pure

and I feel awful this evening. a balmy 20 degrees out about now ...

[Ben]

"That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee.
"

or a ride on the short bus. If he vetoes be sure he has the poll numbers in hand.

[boatbuilder]

"...a small minded, vindictive, ignorant hick with hardened animus towards the fraud in in the WH."

Like dragging red meat in front of this dog, Lyle. Cheap giggles well worth the click.

[rich@gmu]

think Rick covered it above.

[boatbuilder]

"...the fuel that it will carry is inherently poisonous..."

How do the poll numbers look for banning the internal combustion engine?

[Steve]

Going Viral:
Carrie Underwood - Something in the Water (video)

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/01/carrie-underwood-something-in-water.html

[Beasts of England]

Inherently poisonous? Whatever in the fuck could that possibly mean? Peak stupidity raises its ugly head once again. Santa Maria!!

p.s. I'd like to be on record as pro-long long legs.

[RickB]

Rich,

When you think Watermelon, think suborning perjury and buying judges in Ecuador or defacing natural history monuments in Peru. Punk Watermelons blogging at Esquire don't make the cut.

[Ben]

" banning the internal combustion engine?"

Too funny. You seem to think he's a socialist, like Teddy The Bullmoose striking a balance between WW and conservative Republicans. Imagine making pristine wild lands sacrosanct from intrusion by well-meaning capitalists.

[henry]

Rich, I'll take your 20 temps. We go to -9 tonight, the sun will burn us up to -3 tomorrow, then the bottom falls out tomorrow night (-12). At least it will make a nice welcome for the Cowboys.

[Iggy]

Death funnel.
Good inherent grief.

[jimmyk]

Condolences, DoT.

[Beasts of England]

I enjoyed the special the other morning showing oil derricks on TR's ranch in the Badlands. Really classed the place up! Too bad the bleeding hearts didn't spend their own precious capital buying to place up to render it sacrosanct. Oh, well. I call it progress. Forward!!

[Iggy]

65° in sunny CA.
Need more rain.

[Extraneus]

I've mentioned this before, but since it was so much fun I'll do so again.

As a college student government president early in my 1-year term, I asked the Senate to pass an amendment to the constitution adding the "If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law" language.

A history & gov't professor had written the constitution, as he was often so proud to note, yet had forgotten to eliminate the pocket veto....

The Senate passed the amendment, which I then pocket vetoed until the last minute of my term, when I signed it as my last official act.

Prior to that, I used the pocket veto multiple times, including on a bill to fund that same professor's club's trip to Washington, DC, for which he impotently excoriated me in the student newspaper.

:-)

[Ben]

" Forward!!"

*drink*

[Captain Hate]

Death funnel.
Good inherent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1ZDzBoUf8

[Beasts of England]

Sorry to hear that, DoT. Thanks for sharing that link - looks like we lost another great gentleman and sailor.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

cindyk - Long, long legs are the best thing to have!

I've always enjoyed your posts, so hang in there, ok?

*One* of these days TyphusPad will work as designed without infecting us.

[Beasts of England]

So instead of putting your money where your mouth is and funding some of those precious vistas, you chose to co-opt my meme? I'm not surprised at such a weak retort.

Missed you the last few weeks, Ben. Jail or rehab?

[Comanche Voter]

I don't know. Another way to vote "present" by neither signing nor returning the bill? Old habits die hard. And maybe he could go golfing on the 9th day and have a little transportation malfunction on his way back from the course.

I mean time for Val Jar to put her thinking cap on here.

[Ben]

Changed from DSL (verizon) assholes to Hughes Satellite access. Twice the reception at the same price. It was a beatch where I live but worth it. I heartily recommend. Good CS and response times.

Ez Pz.

[henry]

Active shooter at army base in El Paso. ( ht Mel).

[Beasts of England]

That's good to hear, Ben. I feared that maybe your gay lover had you locked up like the Gimp...

[henry]

Plus, Bill Gross With a sober look at the markets. It isn't pretty.

[Captain Hate]

I thought I was the last DSL holdout.

[Ben]

That's a sad way to console yourself over inadequacies, BoE. I'm not quite as homophobic as yourself so I don't find your response intimidating. Maybe you should expand your misogyny by considering a tryst off the record. You may find a home.

[Jim Eagle]

Not Army base but the VA hospital near Ft. Bliss.

[henry]

CH, no cable here in the sticks. DSL or cell phone connect only.

[Beasts of England]

Homophobic? Some of my favorite girlfriends are bisexual and I support them completely. Mysogynistic? Women are a gift from God and I was blessed with two daughters.

More swings and more misses, Ben. I was hoping you'd become a more worthy foil in 2015. The year's still young, padnuh, don't stop thinking about tomorrow. Your inadequacies could disappear any year now...

[Ben]

'No crossed swords" BoE.

Make sure the threesomes are one boy two girls.

Need i say that?

[Captain Hate]

Ouch, henry; I sure don't miss all those youtube interruptions for buffering. Or overnight downloads

[Jim Eagle]

A friendly reminder:

[Ben]

"“Falling oil prices are a bigger drag on economic growth than the incremental “savings” received by the consumer…..Another way to show this graphically is to look at the annual changes in Personal Consumption Expenditures (PCE) in aggregate as compared to the subsection of PCE spent on energy and related products. This is shown in the chart below."

http://www.counterpunch.org/

[Ben]

'Friendly reminder'

Does Frederick know how big an asshole his dad is?

[Threadkiller]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2015/01/05/woman-seeks-200000-from-house-after-staffers-dog-bites-her-finger/

Now we know how they got to McClintock.

[GMax]

Prepare for some really good kabuki and some really bad explanation from the poorly named Josh Earnest. Zero is going to have to vote something other than present for a change. It will be clarifying for the LIV and white nominal Democrats. I realize there is quite an overlap there...

[Jim Eagle]

To all my aggrevied Lions' friends: Lets not forget this from last August. Was the fix in?

http://sportsnaut.com/2014/08/nfl-head-officiating-cowboys-party-bus/

[Beasts of England]

Sounds like your jealousy of the wealthy and successful has driven you insane, Ben. Too bad. I'll be happy to underwrite your therapy if you think you can be cured. Just let me know...

[Eric in Boise]

I'm out of Tito's, Danube, but will raise a glass of Guinness to your good friend tonight, and toast his service. Many condolences.

[Beester]

Danube: For a great man, for your friend

High Flight

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .

Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high un-trespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

[Eric in Boise]

Does Frederick know how big an asshole his dad is?

Feeding or not, that's over the line. Knock that crap off right now.

[Ben]

'jealously of wealthy and successful'

Trust-fund babies are to be pitied. Those who rise on the backs of others, equally so. Stop trying to justify your narcissism with tales of bravado. It's unseemly for any normal person.

[Extraneus]

I'd like to see Sue's comments on that link Jack just posted.

:-)

[Eric in Boise]

Thanks, Beester. That brought back fond memories of my dear dad. I read that at his funeral.

[Jim Eagle]

Here's another guy from that party bus:)

[lyle]

Boy: Mom, when I grow up I want to be a pilot.

Mom: You can't do both, son.

Sent from my retired Army LTC uncle.

[Beasts of England]

Didn't know I was speaking of myself, Ben. Further, if you have any record of me rising on the backs of others or having trust funds I'd be terribly excited to hear of such. Of course, your assigning those qualities to those you find wealthy and successful simply proves your unjustified hatred and insanity toward same. Seek professional help, sweetie.

[GMax]

OH and might I say, HOW BOUT THEM COWBOYS!

[Danube on iPad]

"...a small minded, vindictive, ignorant hick"

I like the cut of your jib, son,

[Jim Eagle]

lyle,

Or, according to Chuck Knox, a profesional football player.

[Ben]

I have no record of your history BoE, but neither do you have any of mine. However, I did note the non-denial, denial...

[Captain Hate]

The GOPe's handmaiden gloats:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/01/06/the-backbenchers-act-wears-thin/

Honestly, from reading the comments from Bezos's Gazette's acolytes, who is she really writing to? I like the line that the House will vote to repeal 404Care. Really?

[Beester]

High Flight--a little beauty goes along way in dealing with dark times or dark souls.

Nytol

[lyle]

That works, too, JiB.

[Miss Marple]

Today I discovered the British War Relief Society. In the days when Americans were made of sterner stuff, there was a huge effort to help the British people in the years 1939-1941, before America entered the war.
All of these efforts were brought under one umbrella group, the British War Relief Society, headquartered in New York.

I acquired 12 plates issued by Wedgwood having 12 different London landmarks on them, issued in 1941 to raise money for the British War relief. Two of the landmarks, the Guildhall and the Middle Temple Hall, are noted as being destroyed by enemy bombing in 1940. Two others, Buckingham Palace and the Houses of Parliament, are noted as having been "attacked by the enemy" in 1940.

Pretty cool pieces and I sure hope a buyer will find them as fascinating as I did. The transfer is in brown on cream, and some of the sites (like the Houses of Parliament) show vehicles of the era.

This is my pleasant addition to what has become a fractious site today.

Now back to work.

[Beasts of England]

So you make the accusation without knowledge and then try to deflect based upon my non-denial? You're upset, Ben. Don't be ruled by your angry obsessions. I'm quite serious. I'm also done responding to you, but I sincerely wish you well. We live in wonderful times in the greatest country in the history of civilization. We are all blessed beyond comprehension. Stop and smell the roses, sir. All the best.

[Danube on iPad]

O'Reilly will cover Dersh tonight.

[Sue]

Seriously? If the fix was in why didn't Suh stay suspended? Get a better excuse as to why the Lions were unable to score a TD after the 1st quarter and only scored 3 points in the second half. Go Boys!

[Jim Eagle]

Sue,

Does that bus have snow tires and a heater?
😄

[Ben]

." All the best."

Thanks. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on well-wishing.

[Threadkiller]

 If the fix was in why didn't Suh stay suspended?

That would have been too obvious.

[Beasts of England]

They sound lovely, Miss Marple!

[Iggy]

The scrofulous Cowboy's ignobility is exceeded only by the creeping nematodes of Denver.

But I still love Sue. :)

[Captain Hate]

O'Reilly will cover Dersh tonight.

No telling what he thinks THE FOLKS should know about this.

[sbw]

Beasts, there is noise cluttering the signal on the site. Please attenuate.

[Jim Eagle]

MM,

I may be intereseted. What is your eBay site?

[Iggy]

I too am a DSL captive, CH.

[Captain Hate]

Get a better excuse as to why the Lions were unable to score a TD after the 1st quarter and only scored 3 points in the second half.

Matthew Stafford is such a choking dog that only a certified idiot like Terry Bradshaw thinks he's any good.

[Sue]

We're play Green Bay Sunday. Regardless of how many phantom calls the refs found against the Cowboys. One for holding that erased a TD. If we had lost y'all would be aware of video showing Pettigrew had Hitchens face mask thereby preventing Hitchens from turning his head and making a play on the ball. He would have intercepted the poorly thrown pass had he been able to turn his head. Instead it hit him in the back.

Y'all would be better off arguing the fix was in when they failed to flag Bryant for being on the field without his helmet.

[Miss Marple]

Thanks, Beasts!

One of the fascinating things about what I do is finding the flotsam and jetsam of history, whriling around in the backwater of central Indiana.

A couple of years ago I found a WWI British sweetheart pin from the Lancastershire Rifles, in original box. The only thing the auctioneer noted was that it was probably sterling silver. It was a very accurate small depiction of a rifle (British Enfield). It also had the flowers of the British empire (rose, thistle, daffodil and shamrock).

I ended up selling it to someone from Canada. I always wondered how it wound up in a little auction house in Beech Grove, Indiana.