Geez, Was The Senate Democrats Torture Report Politicized?

In preparing their report on the CIA torture program, did the Senate Democrats present an objective survey or promote their preferred narrative? We get a surprising answer from a surprising source - here we go, from the NY Times:

Did the Torture Report Give the C.I.A. a Bum Rap?

By DAVID COLE  FEB. 20, 2015

WASHINGTON — IN December, when the Senate Intelligence Committee issued its long-awaited report on the C.I.A.’s detention and interrogation program, it seemed to confirm what I and many human-rights advocates had argued for a decade: The C.I.A. had started and run a fundamentally abusive and counterproductive torture program. What’s more, the report found that the C.I.A. had lied repeatedly about the program’s efficacy, and that it had neither disrupted terror plots nor saved lives.

And the switcheroo:

But the principal lesson drawn by countless commentators in the initial news cycle — that torture does not work — was reached before nearly anyone read the full report and responses by the C.I.A. and the Republican members of the committee. The report and responses amount to 828 pages. I’ve now had a chance to read the documents in full. And I suspect the C.I.A. was treated unfairly.

...

The area of dispute concerns the report’s “headlines” — namely, that the C.I.A.’s tactics did not work, and that the agency repeatedly lied about that. The report focuses on 20 prominent instances in which the C.I.A. claimed that information obtained from detainees they subjected to coercive tactics helped identify high-level terrorists and disrupt terrorist plots. The committee concluded that every such claim was a misrepresentation.

When one places the C.I.A.’s accounts of the 20 cases side by side with the committee’s accounts, however, the truth is far from clear. In each instance, the C.I.A. makes a credible case that information it obtained after using coercive tactics played an important role. The C.I.A. says, for example, that 75 percent of the information that led to the capture of Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, who pleaded guilty to conducting research on explosives for a potential terrorist attack, came from the interrogation of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind, who was waterboarded 183 times. Information from Mr. Mohammed, the C.I.A. claims, also helped it capture several other key Qaeda terrorists, disrupting their efforts to kill innocent civilians.

Similarly, the C.I.A. maintains that intelligence extracted from Abu Zubaydah, the first person subjected to the coercive techniques, contributed significantly to the arrests of multiple terrorists, including Mr. Mohammed; Jose Padilla, an American who planned to set off explosions in high-rise apartment buildings; and Ramzi bin al-Shibh, said to have helped organize the 9/11 attacks. The committee contended that the most useful information from Mr. Zubaydah actually came while the F.B.I. was questioning him, using noncoercive tactics before he was waterboarded. But the C.I.A. points out that Mr. Zubaydah had been subjected to five days of sleep deprivation, a highly coercive and painful tactic, when the F.B.I. interrogated him.

The committee repeatedly asserted that critical information was obtained not from C.I.A. interrogations but from detainees in “the custody of a foreign government.” In detailing how the United States located Osama bin Laden, Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, who led the committee, cited seven such instances. But she did not even acknowledge the likelihood that the other governments, to which the C.I.A. was regularly rendering suspects for torture, used techniques even more abusive than the C.I.A.’s. Her account is hardly evidence that torture doesn’t work.

Without the underlying documents, it’s not possible to resolve the competing claims, but many of the C.I.A.’s responses appear plausible on their face. At a minimum it is possible that the C.I.A.’s tactics did help it capture some very dangerous people planning future attacks.

That conclusion in turn casts doubt on the committee’s other main finding — namely, that the C.I.A. repeatedly lied about the program’s efficacy.

Wow. Is it possible the Senate Democrats simply embraced their original talking points rather than presenting a fair report, and that the media lapped it up?

NY Times readers and no one else will be surprised.

 

Comments

[lyle]

“The Presidential power to veto legislation is one I take seriously. But I also take seriously my responsibility to the American people,” he continued. “And because this act of Congress conflicts with established executive branch procedures and cuts short thorough consideration of issues that could bear on our national interest — including our security, safety, and environment — it has earned my veto.”

Except for the last five words, all lies.

[Jane]

I'm the bartender Jib, and the radio announcer. That chicks carrying golf club thing, isn't happening.

[Jane]

He's a sick joke, lyle.

[lyle]

Who's the masseuse physical therapist?

[Dave (in MA)]

On the debate moderators: I can't get too worked up about the primary debates except as an indicator of what the GOP will do in the general.

The contraceptive topic was kicked off by a question asked by Democrat operative George Stephanopoulos during a Republican primary debate, giving er, birth to the whole "War On Women" "issue".

[exdemocrat]

JiB - Gayle in full flow is something that, i think, any sports fan of any stripe would find pretty awesome.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

Chicks carrying golf clubs???? Only if they are my own!!

I think beasts may be having weather issues. Huntsville got slammed by the stuff that keeps missing us. Looks like they got iced to the tune of half an inch. There's a FB post of trucks sliding down a hill in Huntsville that looks pretty scary.

We are due for another round tomorrow night which will probably be another near miss for us. I've had enough and looked at somewhere to play some golf and feel the warmth. Looked at St Augustine world golf village and Tampa and ended up booking us back at the casino in Gulfport again. I just can't beat the free room nights v $600 for a hotel room for 3 nights. Man I'm getting cheap!! Plus we're getting into spring break season and I don't want to get into that mess. Get off my lawn!

[Dave (in MA)]

Screw golf, I'll see you at the bar.

[Jack is Back!]

exdem,

He sure is but has a ways to go to supplant "the prince" Brian Lara:)

BTW, who do you think will be the first Secretary of the Department of the Internet.?

[lyle]

Who's the cabana/towel boy?

[Publius of Idaho]

That would be me.

[Jane]

Jaw-dropping headline from CNN leaves conservatives stunned; Dems feel faint

[henry]

JiB, the inventor Al Gore

[lyle]

Way to step up, Publius. I move that you will be exempted from the usual Speedo requirements of the job.

[Jack is Back!]

Well if Jane and Stephanie won't carry Ivan Boesky's golf clubs then there goes that concept. Back to the drawing board.

What if I design a few croquet and bocce courts instead?

But enlarge the clubhouse and put a martini bar and pub in there?

Also, Big Screen TV's and NFL Red Zone?

[Publius of Idaho]

Anything to get on the island, lyle. :)

[Eric in Boise]

Seconded!!

[Jeff Dobbs]

POOL TABLE!

[Jack is Back!]

Hit,

There is not only a pool table but its an Olhausen.

[Jack is Back!]

We also have no fly and no ferry list. Wiilliam Devane is the first guy on it.

[Jeff Dobbs]

You're the best, JiB.

[Publius of Idaho]

Provided I could get into a Speedo, I'm sure that would get me thrown off the island.

[jimmyk]

The contraceptive topic was kicked off by a question asked by Democrat operative George Stephanopoulos during a Republican primary debate

Perhaps, but my impression is that Stephy was largely ridiculed for that question, and Romney handled it pretty well with his "WTF?" response. The WoW nonsense only took off when the Catholic Church fought the contraception mandate a bit later.

[Jane]

Click on my link above. It will make you happy.

[jimmyk]

Wiilliam Devane is the first guy on it.

I must confess I missed the origin of all the William Devane jokes.

[DrJ]

jimmyk,

Devane hawks gold on Fox -- it seems like it is nonstop. Several people here have Fox on in the background, and so got their fill of him.

[Old Lurker]

"what's in your safe?" DrJ

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

No offense but I vote rich for cabana boy. He's the youngest here isn't he? Cougar fights!

You forgot the mud wrestling pit, JiB.

[Porchlight]

Click on my link above. It will make you happy.

It did, Jane.

Anyone check to see if the headline is still up or if it's been changed?

[Porchlight]

I can no longer find the story at CNN. It must be there, but it's buried now.

[exdemocrat]

it's not really needed now http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/24/mcconnell-caves-but-reid-wants-full-surrender-from-boehner-as-well/

[Jack is Back!]

Steph,

There is a special biker area on the north tip of ilsland where we have a Hog Pen and mud wrestling pit. In fact we have a Bruce Rossmeyer Harley franchicse there.

[Porchlight]

McConnell hasn't caved until he offers up a clean funding bill and Dems vote yes. He's saying he's open to it and Reid is saying only if Boehner agrees to pass it. That's a really, really big if and McConnell knows it.

[Dave (in MA)]

jimmyk | February 24, 2015 at 05:22 PM, my recollection is that it wasn't an issue that anyone was talking about in the campaign until Stepho threw it out there, and though it was largely ridiculed by conservatives, it started the whole discussion that became "The War On Women" that was used by the Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) against the Rs.

[Porchlight]

Anyway, it would have been helpful if the people tweeting screenshots of the original CNN headline had also linked the story. Because it seems to be unavailable under any headline.

[Old Lurker]

Boehner should tell McConnell to drop the veto and proceed with what the House sent him. McTurtle is the guy with all those seats coming up in 2016. He can fix this and teach the Dems a lesson at the same time. Otherwise he's got Reid in charge from here on out.

[Threadkiller]

This was the link

http://m.cnn.com/latest/2015/02/23/senate-dems-block-dhs-funding-bill-again?fullarticle=true

[Jack is Back!]

in Re the Steph question on birth control: Does anyone here believe the RNC have learned anything about the set up? I don't think so when you look at the line up of RNC debates and who is bringing them.

This is why I never give to the RNC but to individual candidates and have told them so and they just don't understand my position. Screw the RNC and their stupid people who work there.

[Threadkiller]

From Feb 3rd.

Democrats block funding for DHS to protect Obama immigration orders

By Ted Barrett

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/02/politics/immigration-funding-bill-vote/

[GUS]

Why do we have a Republican Party. They are useless.

[Porchlight]

I found that one, TK. But click it. It goes to the CNN homepage, not to the story.

[Porchlight]

Darn it, never mind. Now it's working for me.

[Porchlight]

Anyway, the tweet Jane linked up thread is referring to a recent headline - I think. At any rate it was posted yesterday afternoon.

https://twitter.com/LeonHWolf/status/570023647940882434/photo/1

[Porchlight]

Here is local coverage from yesterday afternoon. But good luck finding it on CNN.

http://milwaukee.cityandpress.com/node/9179244

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

I'd offer Reid less each day they hold out. I once you get it down to funding just the essential personnel salaries only, call it a day. Permanently. I don't have Jeh and top management in that essential personnel category, either. They don't need travel, entertainment, and capital expenses for a while. Let em suck on that.

[centralcal]

Well, about this island - there better be cabana boys. Ann, Clarice, Janet, JMHanes (she will reappear if the island does), glasater, Sue and I* will need someone to carry Jane's expertly mixed cocktails to us gals under our beach umbrellas, doncha know.

-----

*including all girl gang members not already mentioned - hey the list was getting a little long! ha.

[Jack is Back!]

Porch and TK.

You are wtinessing the first screen shoit of CNN trying to increase audience which of course means ad revenue. Watch as MSNBC does the same thing. Moderately at a time like the frong in the sauce oan.

[lyle]

Steph for majority leader!

[Porchlight]

Search CNN for "dhs." You get nothing.

http://www.cnn.com/search/?text=dhs

Follow the link in this story. It looks like it's going to ABC coverage of the Dems filibuster but instead goes to a story that was obviously changed last night and the new story talks about McConnell's changing tactics.

It's been totally disappeared.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

the Steph question

Stephy too.

Please quit insulting my nickname!! Call him that Greek midget or something but come on!!!!

[Porchlight]

Sorry to go on about this. But it's making me crazy.

Look at the URL: Senate Dems to block DHS funding again.

http://www.wisn.com/politics/senate-dems-to-block-dhs-funding-bill-again/31431402?absolute=true

It's from yesterday.

Now click it and look where it goes. The byline is Ted Barrett at CNN. CNN just disappeared the story about Dems blocking funding and replaced it altogether with this new story suggesting that McConnell's caving.

You know they got chewed out by the WH for that headline.

[Extraneus]

What stops the RNC from producing their own debates?

They could hire a law professor of their choosing and have one on Constitutional issues, a retired general or foreign affairs prof for another, an ex mayor on domestic issues, a panel of radio personalities, etc.

These would be so much more substantive than what we're used to, and the questions would focus on things Republicans actually care about.

Is it the need for a national TV network? If so, why not just go with Fox or even CSPAN?

Does anyone know? I honestly don't get it.

[Threadkiller]

Too vast for me to believe, porch.

[Porchlight]

:) TK.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

They are using brine here this year so I have a noob question for all you snow savvy JOMers:

Are you supposed to get your car's undercarriage washed after the snow event is over? I understand that brine is highly corrosive for cars, so I was wondering if having the car wash do an undercarriage wash would mitigate the damage?

Thanks in advance

[Threadkiller]

They do not want a debate where everyone pretends to agree, Ext. By having ths Crowleys of the world ask ridiculous questions that pick off the more conservative candidates, the remaining RINOs can claim that media bias did in their competitors.

[henry]

Heh, the local TV News is fluffing for the protestors... They want a repeat of 2011 to get ratings up.

[henry]

Stephanie, yes on undercarriage wash. ASAP.

[Threadkiller]

If possible, Stephanie, wash it off as often as possible. It does a number on exposed metal.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

Porch, I figure their surveillance and counter tactics for negative stories are much more rigorous than those they employ v ISIS. How many hours do you figure they spend on narrative watch?

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

Thanks, guys. I think this is the first year they have done brine v the usual sand and gravel prep.

[Miss Marple]

Extraneus,

I don't know, because it seems to me that the networks (especially CNN) need the ratings more than the RNC needs the networks.

My only conclusion is that when we tries to remove the GOP debates from network control, the counter-threat was to shut off coverage of GOP candidates for the duration of the campaign.

That would be a formidable threat. And the RNC knows it works. Back when Bush was running against Gore they disappeared W from coverage for almost a month. This was preceded by hints that "Bush was a lazy campaigner."

It made me so darn mad that I joined with 2 other women and we produced the "Bush-Cheney Victory Tour" threads on Free Republic, where local people would report on their appearances and send in their ow photos.

The guy who eventually became Bush's White House photographer eventually started sending us photos on the sly, which helped tremendously. He was angry at the press for how they were killing the coverage.

So, it is important to keep that in mind when wondering about the debates. The press can kill a campaign by simply killing coverage.

[jimmyk]

Sorry, Steph! :)

It just takes too long to type out the preferred Snuffalopogus. I'll go with George.

Not to belabor this, but I thought the suspicion was that George got the word to ask the question because the Dems were planning to flog the WoW/contraception issue. So like a good Dem soldier he went ahead and asked. At the time it seemed to come from nowhere and was regarded as bizarre (and ineffective), but sure enough, a month later the whole issue was trumped up by the Democrats.

I don't think he did any actual damage with the question, but he revealed his ties to Dem operatives and foreshadowed their strategy.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

The press can kill a campaign by simply killing coverage.

Ask Fred Thompson.

[GUS]

{{What stops the RNC from producing their own debates?}}

Incompetence, cowardice, lack of leadership.

[Stephanie De Nile is a river in Progtopia]

Thanks jimmyK. I started wondering what comment I had made on abortion when I first saw that. Then it dawned on me ... doh!

[Frau Meerrettich]

I shall be Clarice's kitchen drudge. My job will be to make everything is ready. The position requires cooking wine...for Clarice and for me.

[Miss Marple]

My local car wash is giving unlimited washes for 2 months for $29. After that, it's $29 for each month.

Since we have so much junk on the street plus starlings have decided to park over my driveway, I thought this was a good deal.

[Skoot]

I guess Obama will have to stop taking credit for singlehandedly lowering oil prices now.

[GUS]

Whether or not Snuffotardalot was successful in his attempt to SLIME the GOP is irrelevant. ABC allowed it. The GOP has not protested it vigorously. If someone had attempted to slime a friend of family member of mine, I'd see to it that they were put on notice or on crutches. The dickless wonders of the GOP sicken me.
90plus percent of them. They stand up to threats to their PARTY POWER inside, but do not protect US.

[Jack is Back!]

Steph,

Living on the beach I get a car wash every other day. Even in the garage I have salt cover on the vehicle.

[Extraneus]

I don't know, MM. The MSM won't help the GOP candidates no matter what they do or agree to, but they will attack conservatives more than moderates during the primaries. I think I'm leaning toward TK's theory.

As for Fred, they did cover him. They constantly mentioned or implied that he wasn't campaigning when he was hitting three or four cities a day.

[Frau Meerrettich]

I'll have to work on "getting things ready" for Clarice since my proofreading is lagging today. BTW no wine so far today but not enough tea!

[Jack is Back!]

Frau,

As long as you and Clarice are cooking under the edicts of Gary Taubes or not only will you be release from St. Janes but also JOM:)

[Jack is Back!]

Can someone tell me what Obama's lapel pin represents? Doesn't look like the flag.

[Extraneus]

Fiorina to Clinton: ‘Flying is an activity, not an accomplishment’

On Tuesday, Fiorina said that despite Clinton’s extensive travel as secretary of state, “every place in the world is more dangerous today than it was six years ago."

She also went after Clinton over recent reports on how the Clinton Foundation had lifted its own ban on foreign donations, and potential conflicts of interest that could arise from that should Clinton run for the White House.

“Really? This is the best we can do is to have yet another decade of campaign finance scandals?" Fiorina said.

I hope she runs.

[Frau Meerrettich]

JiB - I can just as easily sit in the bar with Jane.

[rich@gmu]

Frau-

the "kitchen drudge" is now a Sous Chef.

so Obama vetoed Keystone and the Reps are caving on amnesty and net neutrality ... good times, good times.

[Extraneus]

NBC’s Richard Engel: ISIS ‘effectively taking over’ Libya

[Jack is Back!]

AB Stoddart. The inside beltway kool aid drinking idiot of the week.

So far.

[Miss Marple]

Extraneus,

I saw her interviewed a couple of days ago and was really, really impressed with her presentation, command of language, and quick and intelligent replies.

She also has a lot more foreign policy experience than I realized, due to conducting international deals. She's even met Putin.

Now, I might not like her when I really get more informed about her, but she is definitely an asset for the GOP.

Also, she started as a secretary!

[Danube on iPad]

Don't know the answer re the debates, Ext. I've wondered for many years.

"Anything the Zero admin does re: net neutrality can be reversed by the next guy, right?"

It's the FCC that does it. It can be undone by legislation (signed by the president), or by a subsequent FCC. It consists of five commissioners serving staggered five-year terms, each appointed by the president. No more than three can be from the same political party.

[rich@gmu]

Stephanie-

not the youngest. Eliot wins that race easily.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"Devane hawks gold on Fox -- it seems like it is nonstop."

Thanks, DrJ, guess I've missed that somehow. I do see all the Fred Thompson reverse mortgage hawking, which doesn't help his standing with me. Though I suppose he starts with a bit more of a reservoir of good will tjan Devane.

[Extraneus]

Best headline of the day?

Doctor says the Black Madam charged in buttocks-injection death blackmailed him after affair

[Danube on iPad]

Walker surges in poll:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/24/frontrunner-scott-walker-25-ben-carson-18-jeb-bush-17-in-new-poll-of-republicans/

Hate to say it, but I believe Ben Carson is a lightweight.

[Danube on iPad]

Try to imagine the kind of man who would vote for Hillary Clinton.

[Stephanie]

But, Eliot's gonna be the golf pro.

Y'all are gonna have to be lenient on the noise rules; cause, I'm gonna be pool and golf side during the day and doing the remodeling and construction jobs at night.

[Miss Marple]

Danube,

Carson is an intelligent man of sterling character. However, his personality is very humble and mild, which sort of comes across as passive.

Also, the type of guys who would vote for Clinton include public employee union members, Pajama Boy types, FSA members, etc.

[Porchlight]

I agree re: Carson. Like him a lot, but we don't need a neophyte. Quite the opposite.

[rich@gmu]

amnesty cave ...

http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/mcconnell-throws-in-towel-on-dhs-fight-but-reid-waiting-for-boehner-to-cave/

why have a GOPe congress when thy act like dems when they get there. knew they would sell out, but figured it would take at least a year.

[Threadkiller]

About 3/4 the way through, Ben Carson says the "t" word:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sKXRmdiLNmc

No, not "JATFI."

He said "treason."

[Jane]

Steph,

I don't know about your weather but don't get your car washed when it is below freezing.

[Jane]

Hate to say it, but I believe Ben Carson is a lightweight.

No worries, it's gonna be Walker/Martinez

[Stephanie]

Everyone on FB needs to check their privacy settings... a few days ago many of the shares of your posts started getting a 'privacy warning' that the share was not gonna post as a public post.

Of course, FB could have put me on conservative probation, too. Fkers.

[Stephanie]

I won't Jane, but it's due to go above freezing on Friday between storms, so a quick car wash trip is in order.

It was actually above freezing here, today. But yucky. I think grey is my least favorite color. :(

[Ignatz]

Can we please have a new thread with a shorter title?
This one is so long I can't use that one weird trick to get to the end page without scrolling through all the others.

[Porchlight]

rich, McConnell could be saying that but Reid is saying no deal unless Boehner goes along. We'll see. I don't think the House will do it and McConnell knows that.

[Porchlight]

I forgot the one weird trick, Iggy.

[Miss Marple]

I don't know the weird trick, either!

It sure would help me on the iPad!