He Went To Iraq Based On Phony Intelligence

Brian Williams lied and his credibility died. Or did it? And why say he was lying when the human memory is so mysterious?

I'll say this - from Whitewater to Bosnia Democratic front-runner Hillarity! has the most convenient forgettery ever. When she switches to "I can't recall" mode it's hard to see how Brian Williams can press her for answers.

Of course, the fact that people misremember will itself be forgotten when it is a Republican candidate under the bright lights.

NOT AS WRONG AS HE THOUGHT: The pilot of Williams' helicopter has flies to the (partial) rescue: [UPDATE: And then backpedals; see below]

Helicopter pilot tells CNN Williams 'messed up': Rich Krell, who was piloting the Chinook that Williams was on, tells a slightly different story than the crew members who spoke to Stars and Stripes.

"Some of things he's said are not true. But some of the things they're saying against him are not true either," said Krell, who spoke exclusively to CNN on Thursday morning.

Krell explained that, contrary to Williams' comments in the past, there were three helicopters flying in close formation, not four.

"One of the birds broke down, so we were a flight of three," Krell said. "We were hauling metal bridges."

Williams was in the back of Krell's aircraft along with three other NBC staffers. Krell referred to his Chinook as the "second bird" in the formation. The "first bird," right in front of the "second bird," was struck by the RPG.

Due to his seat in the back, Williams was most likely unable to witness the RPG attack, Krell said.

All three of the helicopters were hit by small arms fire, Krell said, supporting Williams' past claims about that.

"The bridge expansions we were hauling took most of the hits," Krell said.

The three Chinooks took evasive maneuvers. Krell's helicopter dropped off its payload, then met up with the other two about 45 minutes later. That may explain why the other crew members told Stars and Stripes that Williams arrived in the area later.

Krell said of Williams, "Yeah, he messed up some things and said some things he shouldn't have. I [first] heard it a few years ago. ... Actually one of my flight engineers said, 'Did you hear him say that? Wasn't he on our bird?'"

Krell didn't seem overly bothered by Williams' revisionist history -- he chalked it up to wartime theatrics. "After a while, with combat stories, you just go 'Whatever,'" he said.

Hmm. That means this snippet of Williams' tale as told to David Letterman isn't quite so false:

Listen to what Williams told David Letterman in this appearance on the “Late Show” upon the 10th anniversary of his helicopter troubles: “We were in some helicopters. What we didn’t know was, we were north of the invasion. We were the northernmost Americans in Iraq. We were going to drop some bridge portions across the Euphrates so the Third Infantry could cross on them. Two of the four helicopters were hit, by ground fire, including the one I was in, RPG and AK-47.”

Well, yes, his helicopter was hit and yes, RPGs and AK-47s were being fired. Of course, his most recent broadcast claim is false:

In his broadcast, Williams repeated those claims: “The story actually started with a terrible moment a dozen years back during the invasion of Iraq when the helicopter we were traveling in was forced down after being hit by an RPG, Our traveling NBC News team was rescued, surrounded and kept alive by an armored mechanized platoon from the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry.”

As to Frequently Unasked Questions: Why is the media Swiftboating Brian Williams? Aren't we meant to accept war stories as gospel?

[UPDATE: Pilot in Brian Williams scandal: 'I am questioning my memories'

...

Bottom line: this pilot is revising his story - and, because of that, I'm revising mine.

What initially looked like an account that supported some of Brian Williams' war story -- that he came "under fire" that day -- no longer appears to be true.]

OR MAYBE NOT: From the Times:

On Thursday, yet another pilot, Rich Krell, gave a different account, telling CNN that he had in fact flown Mr. Williams, and their helicopter had come under attack. Mr. Simeone and Mr. Kelly strongly disputed Mr. Krell’s account.

Why was this so simple when John Kerry told war stories and so complicated now? And where were the Big Science articles explaining the foibles of human memory when Kerry was running or Libby was being tried?

Comments

[Sue]

First?

[Sue]

Rush is having fun with this today.

[GUS]

Lyin' Williams is sorry for misremembering.

[Jim Eagle]

Lets not forget that Chelsea was out running by the Twin Towers when they got hit.

[Captain Hate]

All those 18 credits shot clear to Hell.

[Tim Russert]

I recall Brian's helicopter getting hit with a RPG.

[Sandy--I Stand with Walker 2016--Daze ن]

...pants on fire...

[MarkO]

This is such an open and public lie, one has to be concerned that it took so long to be exposed. This didn't happen in a corner.

[Jim Eagle]

And Jimmah's SEAL trained killer rabbit.

[NKvirusedand back]

The cream of connecticut's political and media class. Williams and Blumenthal lie about matters military, Chris Murphy bounced rent checks and was evicted, and of course twice elected Danny Malloy's son plead guilty to armed robbery and 'numerous'drug crimes, while Danny was not prosecuted by his Stamford cronies for home improvement kickbacks from contractors doing business with the city. Scum, all of them: http://articles.courant.com/2009-12-10/news/hc-web-malloy-son-1211dec10_1_dannel-malloy-prison-sentence-shippan

[Jim Eagle]

Barney Frank's denying he was running a brothel out of his townhouse on Capitol Hill.

[James D.]

MarkO, most of the MSM-ites live (like the Dems do) in their own constructed reality, where truth and falsehood are based not on anything objective, but on their wants or needs of the moment.

[Captain Hate]

The ewok has had some time to think about this:

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=354789

[NKvirusedand back]

And of course a JOM classic, the media conspiracy with Fitz to falsely allege that the CIA 'operative' leak came from the WH.

[Brian Williams]

I got burned on that play during practice, so I knew it was coming. Browner did a great job on Kearse, so I jumped the route and intercepted the ball.

I'm going to Disney World!!

[Jim Eagle]

BW at 12:36,

Only if you get vaccinated first, dude.

[NKvirusedand back]

AoS properly dumps on Wiliams in that post.

[Cecil Turner]

I'll give him this much: when telling a story repeatedly over the years, one tends to remember the story more than the actual incident, and details tend to evolve. That said, the initial report is an obvious attempt at misdirection, and the distinction between being on a downed helo or a helo that came to the aid of a downed helo is hardly trivial or difficult to recall.

On the other hand, I'm not convinced he had a lot of credibility to lose.

[Jim Eagle]

Can't top this:

"Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family to ever go to a university? Was it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because they didn’t work hard, my ancestors who worked in the coal mines of northeast Pennsylvania and would come up after 12 hours and play football for four hours? It’s because they didn’t have a platform upon which to stand."

h/t Neal Kinnock

[Extraneus]

So Obama considers the Crusades as some sort of stain on Christianity?

What ethnic group feels the same as he does about that? Jews? Indians? Blacks? Swedes?

Who foams at the mouth over the Crusades?

[James D.]

I never thought Williams was anything more than an empty suit to start with - a real-life version of the William Hurt character in "Broadcast News".

It's not as though he, or NBC News generally, had any credibility in the first place to lose in my eyes.

[henry]

Oh, well if Chris Cuomo is defending him that changes everything.

[NKvirusedand back]

henry, Chris and andy cuomo may be sweating the media taking a look at the career of the maternal grandfather and the beating which effectively ended his life when PreetB starts poking around in andy's corruption closet

[Danube on iPad]

Blumenthal...Blumenthal...say, wasn't he the one with that wife-beating thingy? And wasn't there a DUI in there somewhere?

[Brian Williams]

So there I was waiting in the men's room for Senator Craig the locker room attendant. I had a needle ready, and quickly got the balls just the way Tom likes them. I'd say it took about 90 seconds.

[jimmyk]

Not surprising that many MSM creeps are closing ranks. I'm sure half of them have their own whoppers that have yet to be exposed.

[Captain Hate]

Not that one, DoT.

[Jim Eagle]

They have been reporting the Obama life story and political philosophy lie for the past 6 years why should they think their lies aren't safe also? He sets a fine example for serial lying and self-exaggeration.

DoT, wrong Blumenthal. That was Sid Vicious, Manic Max's father.

[lyle]

Only half, jimmyk?

[matt]

The Muslims took Jerusalem from the Byzantines in 637. The Sassanid/Parthian empire took Jerusalem in 614 and massacred over 90,000 Christians. They razed the Church of the Holy Sepulchure.

Umar, the one who set the Koran in stone, was welcomed as a savior by the Jewish community and allowed both Judaism and Christianity to continue under the rules of jizya.

Jerusalem was then something of a backwater until it was retaken in the First Crusade in 1099. Then the crusaders basically massacred everyone and established the Kingdom of Jerusalem etc.

So it has gone back and forth for centuries. Know your history, Obama.

[jimmyk]

Lyle, the other half has made a career of covering for the lies of Democrats.

[jimmyk]

Know your history, Obama.

Please, you're talking about a guy who just claimed that George Washington made beer in the White House.

[Sue]

Looking at TM's lead, it could be Bush lied, Williams almost died.

[lyle]

Point taken, jk.

[Porchlight]

That Prayer Breakfast speech is one of the most despicable of Zero's presidency and that's saying something.

He's not a fool. He's on the bad guys' side.

[narciso]

of course this weasel, got all verklempt when the Huntress deigned to point out, the intramural Syrian fight was not our deal,

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/muslim-leader-white-house-meeting-bigotry-certain-republicans-nothing-new_840365.html

[NKvirusedand back]

So the Repubs have apparently settled on their ObummerCare replacement, (Has Ryan signed off on this?) this is generally where the Repubs were in '09, this is certainly not classic economic theory (retains the prior condition prohibition) but it is smart politics because it is based on choice and anti-DC rhetoric, which is where the important voters are. Predictable but solid, will they pass this through '16 budget reconciliation, NO, but they must try to defund ObummerCare through reconciliation. Speaking of defund, Sallie Mae should lose it's $22BILLION bailout for THIS YEAR. http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/02/04/more-care-less-obama-hatch-burr-upton-health-aca-column/22884285/

[Captain Hate]

Please, you're talking about a guy who just claimed that George Washington made beer in the White House.

Everything 404 says about history, particularly US history, is either absolutely incorrect or betrays some childlike knowledge of a misleadingly poor summary of whatever event he's bloviating about. He's like the Cliff Klaven of presidents.

[Captain Hate]

He's not a fool. He's on the bad guys' side.

It's like he's trying to get the opposition party to point this out so he can claim victim status and animate his dwindling supporters. I can't think of another explanation.

[NKvirusedand back]

Porch@1:25 -- hear hear.

BTW the 'bad guys' are MB and other Islamists. Obummer undermines muslims who are trying to drag their religion to civilized levels of tolerance and modernity, like King Abdullah and al-sisi. al-sisi celebrated Orthodox christmas in the Copt Cathedral for God's sake. And Obummer undermines him at every turn.

[NKvirusedand back]

PS: Obummer is with the Bad Guys, but he's also a fool.

[lyle]

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=354789

Must click.

[James D.]

CH @ 1:29

At least Cliff Clavin had a good heart, and could usually be counted on to try and do the right thing at the end of the day.

Obama is more like the Newman of Presidents.

[Captain Hate]

Tammy Bruce: What if Megyn Kelly had done what Brian Williams and Rodham did?

[henry]

Dan Rather found the frequency, Williams is an honest, decent man. Next thing you know, Kerry will admit it's Brian's hat that he still has.

[NKvirusedand back]

Our discussion yesterday-- IT'S ON: the muzzies demand immunity from scrutiny based on the seditious acts by muzzies. I demand muzzies be investigated when they assert any Jihadi slaim to impose sharia. We know where Obumer will go with this, let's see what the voters say: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/muslim-leader-white-house-meeting-bigotry-certain-republicans-nothing-new_840365.html

[Jim Eagle]

Remember, we wouldn't be commenting here if Al Gore hadn't invented the internet.

[cathyf]

Totally off-topic bleg here...

On Saturday our h.s. is hosting a speech tourney, and I am making chili and cornbread for the judges/coaches lounge. The last time I did this I used the Jiffy corn muffin mix (the cheap little boxes.) It was kind of meh -- tasted like cornbread, which everybody loves, but it was kind of dry. Does anybody have a better cornbread (actually I think I am going to make corn muffins this time) recipe? Or some tricks to doctoring up the jiffy little blue box version?

[narciso]

he clearly didn't learn the 'lesson of not being seen'

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2015/02/influential_aqap_ide.php

[Wille N.]

Put a little weed in 'em, cathyf.

[RickB]

I certainly hope Brian Williams retains his job. He exemplifies the entire MFM and is as fine a representative of media core values as Obama is of the Fascist Party values.

[NKvirusedand back]

cathyf-- go to food network website for cornbread/muffin recipies. Try the cheddar/jalepeno one... delish and easy to make. Even I did it.

[Janet]

"The president’s decision to link medieval Christian violence committed in the name of their faith to the atrocities perpetrated by Islamic terrorists today, however, has eroded the foundations his argument that religion plays no role in the global war against Islamist terrorism."

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/02/05/obama-you-know-christians-were-just-as-bad-as-isis-a-few-centuries-ago/

[Danube on iPad]

CH and JiB, I know that. But I delight in posting that same line every time the Senator's name is mentioned.

[Extraneus]

Dozens of Dems might skip Netanyahu's congressional address

Vice President Joe Biden, who usually sits next to House Speaker John Boehner during joint sessions of Congress, hasn’t committed to attending either, according to Politico.

Would they really do this? I hope they do.

[NKvirusedand back]

Janet-- unfortunately that's an easy one for Obummer. 11th Century European Crusader attrocities were committed by REAL Christians, 21st Century ISIS are not real Muzzies, they are just bad boys, like racist cops.

[lyle]

I hope they do, too, Ex. It would clarify things.

[Barack Obama]

Honesty. Let's talk a moment about the importance of honesty. It's been told many times, but I think it's worth repeating in this context. George Washington, the father of our country, when he was growing up about the age of my youngest daughter, well, he was asked about his father's favorite tree there at the White House. You see, it was no longer standing. It had fallen. When his dad asked him about it - and his dad was a stern man who took discipline very seriously. When his dad confronted him, little George Washington 'fessed up, "Pa, I cannot tell a lie, I cut that tree down with my wooden teeth."

We could all stand to learn a lesson in the retelling of that story.

[Danube on iPad]

Nice WaPo piece on Williams:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/02/05/why-war-reporters-cant-stand-the-brian-williams-scandal/

I really don't think he can last.

[Brian Williams]

I knew a water landing was dicey, but the Hudson was calm that day, and I just didn't see any other alternative to save the passengers.

I'm journalist, saving people is what we do.

[Janet]

this is funny (from Tom S. on FB)-

[Captain Hate]

DoT, I hesitated before hitting the Post button because I suspected that.

[Brian Williams]

I remember saying "George, Let me go across first to see if the British are waiting to ambush us." So I jumped into the Delaware and swam across, dodging ice floes. Well the Hessians were all drunk as skunks so I gave the signal and George and the rest came over in their boats.

[Brian Williams]

"Abe" I said "It might be political suicide, but need to go to Gettysburg and just say a few words, yes your opponents will try to tie you to the terrible casualties, but you have to go. Here I wrote down a few lines for you."

[Extraneus]

This will only make it sweeter when the R candidates with guts commence re-ridiculing Hillary over the Bosnian sniper fire incident.

[RickB]

I supported Heritage candidate Tom Cotton from the moment I first read of him. Arkansas is very lucky to have such a Senator.

As far as I’m concerned, every last one of them can rot in hell, but as long they don’t do that, they can rot in Guantanamo Bay.”

Note to Fascists - He's the future. Get used to it.

[Captain Hate]

Tammy Bruce: The Republicans should demand that 404 apologize for comparing this country to ISIS.

[Brian Williams]

"Ronnie," I said, "you have to go big or go home. Tell Gorbachev to tear down that wall."

[lyle]

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/pelosi-members-won-t-boycott-netanyahu-speech-but-they-might-be-too-busy-to-go-20150205

[George]

I didn't know that the Jim Crow Laws were proposed by Christians, I thought they were a Democratic response to a Republican idea.

[Old Lurker]

"Tim," I said, "I don't care if we know who leaked that story, let's say it was Scooter."

[Brian W.]

So I told Tank Man, "dude, just stand in front of those four tanks. Even though the Chicoms have murdered thousands of your friends in Tiananmen Square, we'll have cameras on you for this one. You don't have to thank me. I'm a journalist."

[NKvirusedand back]

OL-- your 2:09 isn't fabulism.... that actually happened.

[lyle]

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-the-americans-are-begging-us-for-a-deal/

[Sue]

Rick,

Cotton is awesome.

[DrJ]

OT, and good news for a change: my former thesis advisor has been elected to the National Academy of Engineering. Yay! This is a well-deserved honor.

[narciso]

Actually having read Tom Holland's survey of the early days of Islamic conquest, that wave is much like what ISIS has done just in the last few years, against Byzantine territory,

[Brian Williams]

I was talking to some of my former college classmates who went on to achieve degrees more advanced than I did (Doctorates, Masters, Bachelors, Associates) and they all told me "Don't sweat it, big guy, you've still got your integrity".

[Sue]

They weren't after Scooter Libby. They were after Dick Cheney. Libby was an unfortunate accident.

[narciso]

per the Horde, '18 credits' lied to General Petraeus, back in 2007, just call him Tommy Flanagan

[jimmyk]

Dozens of Dems might skip Netanyahu's congressional address

Can Rs schedule a vote to override Barry's veto of the repeal of 404Care right in the middle of the address?

[Captain Hate]

Per lyle's 2:13, will Congress have to approve any deal with Iran?

[Brian Williams]

They were throwing everything they could at us, screaming curses and threats, but we kept walking with our heads held up. I was determined that those kids were going to attend Little Rock Central High. Because education and journalism class, but especially journalism class.

[narciso]

'He'll never get over Macho Grande' Williams reminds one of Robert Hay's 'long winded raconteur' from Airplane,

[jimmyk]

will Congress have to approve any deal with Iran?

When I heard Lindsey Graham speak a couple of weeks ago, he said that they would insist on that, which tells me that the answer isn't automatically 'yes' (I guess because it's not a treaty?), and therefore that Barry will feel free to do whatever the hell he wants.

[jimmyk]

In fact, here's the story:

Obama would veto bill for congressional approval of Iran deal

[James D.]

To go along with Lyle's 2:13, there's this:

http://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/2015/02/obamas-secret-iran-strategy/

To the extent the theory in that piece is true, Obama really and truly ought to be either impeached for high treason, or removed on 25th Amendment grounds due to insanity.

[AliceH]

DrJ@2:14my former thesis advisor has been elected to the National Academy of Engineering

Yay! Congrats to your former advisor, and THANK YOU, DrJ, for sharing - the good news deficit has been getting to me.

[Some Guy]

He Went To Iraq Based On Phony Intelligence

You've got a pretty big typo there TM, "with" isn't spelled b a s e d o n

[narciso]

Michael Doran, is one of the most perceptive middle east analysts, he reminds of the illegitimacy of the deal, that Bibi is rightly concerned with,

[jimmyk]

It seems not out of the question that enough Ds could vote to override a veto of congressional approval for the deal. People like Chuckie Schumer, Menendez, etc. That nefarious Jewish influence. The question is whether even that would stop Obama.

[boatbuilder]

"Don't be so hard on poor Hillary. She just has it mixed up with that time I invited her to go quail hunting."
Dick Cheney

[Captain Hate]

Doesn't Congress have the "power of the purse" ability to refuse to allocate funds for the deal?

[boatbuilder]

I resent the slander of comparing Williams to Cliff Klavin. Klavin's Buffalo Herd Theory of why beer makes us smarter is one of the great contributions to modern thought.

[Jeff Dobbs]

AliceH:
Yay! Congrats to your former advisor, and THANK YOU, DrJ, for sharing - the good news deficit has been getting to me.

Well, I had a really good night at pool this week.

Stats should come out tomorrow, but I'll probably end up in the top 30 in the nation for the week (#SpreadsheetDontLie).

So there's that.

[jimmyk]

It seems that Barry has a lot of discretionary cash floating around for whatever purpose he wants. And if there is not enough, he can just fine a couple of big banks and get some more. But yeah, I suspect if Congress got its act together it could make like difficult for him. That's a big 'if.' I'd like to see the veto override.

[RickB]

jimmyk,

What happens if the Saudis support Israel glassing the Persians? It's a regional dispute and the Saudis understand the Persian long term plan to take Mecca, why wouldn't they support an Israeli checkmate? They've rented Crusaders for decades and they don't even have to pay the Israelis to pull the thorn.

The Global Village Idiot vision of Whirled Peas no longer pertains and the OPM Famine coupled with lousy demographics makes its return rather unlikely.

[Captain Hate]

If 404 had a son, he'd be just like this:

http://weaselzippers.us/213242-islamic-state-child-hopes-to-one-day-capture-his-own-pilot-so-he-can-burn-him-alive/

[boatbuilder]

"...we were only doing a hundred forward knots." "...with rounds coming into the airframe..." "four birds".

It is astonishing to me that it wasn't immediately obvious to everybody listening (OK, other than Letterman and Baldwin) that this guy was bullshitting.

Any non-military person who wasn't trying to BS would have said "a hundred knots" (or even MPH), "aircraft" or "copter" or "helicopter."

[Captain Hate]

It seems that Barry has a lot of discretionary cash floating around for whatever purpose he wants. And if there is not enough, he can just fine a couple of big banks and get some more.

Those settlement just happen an nobody seems concerned with how the money is used.