Shelving The "Smart Diplomacy"

It's hard to be confident that this represents an upgrade, but Obama is shelving the "smart diplomacy" with Iran in favor of "creative negotiations":

Obama Urges ‘Creative’ Talks to Bridge Divide With Iran on Sanctions

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Friday directed his diplomats to use “creative negotiations” to bridge a sharp divide with Iran over the fate of sanctions if it agrees to curb its nuclear program, signaling flexibility in hopes of keeping a tentative agreement from unraveling.

Iranian leaders have insisted in recent days that the punishing sanctions be lifted as soon as a written accord is signed, a position that the country’s foreign minister reinforced on Friday. Mr. Obama did not repeat past American assertions that sanctions would be removed only in phases as Tehran follows through on obligations to scale back its nuclear facilities.

Oh for heaven's sake...

Instead, Mr. Obama suggested that negotiators seek a solution that would seem “more acceptable” to Iran’s political constituencies, while preserving leverage to force the government to abide by the deal. Rather than the timing and structure of sanctions relief, he said his priority was creating a system for reimposing the punitive measures if Iran is caught cheating.

“How sanctions are lessened, how we snap back sanctions if there’s a violation, there are a lot of different mechanisms and ways to do that,” Mr. Obama said at a White House news conference alongside the Italian prime minister, Matteo Renzi. The negotiators, Mr. Obama said, need to “find formulas that get to our main concerns while allowing the other side to make a presentation to their body politic that is more acceptable.”

Wait a second - the hardliners on our side are irresponsible nutjobs but the hardliners on their side need to be placated? I had a friend insist to me that Iran was desperate for this deal because sanctions are crushing their economy, but he couldn't quite explain to me why it seemed as if Obama, not the Ayatollah, was desperate for a deal. Other than the obvious legacy/Nobel II argument, of course.

As to the gist, please - here in Reality, once sanctions are lifted there will be many, many moneyed interests intent on keeping them lifted. Nothing will be "snapping back" except Obama's head in surprise when multiple European and Asian companies and countries put jobs and profit ahead of whinging from Israel and the US about obscure, hard-to-verify cheating by Iran.

Yeah, go ahead - score me as "Undecided" on this Iran deal. No, seriously - I can't decide if Obama is sincere but incompetent or a shameless liar who is incompetent. And normally I make these tough calls every day...

IGNORE THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN... White House aides scrambled to explain that Obama was simply enjoying his own mellifluous tones, not changing US policy:

As for Mr. Obama, his aides said he was not trying to signal a change in policy with his comments at the news conference.

“He was emphasizing snapback” sanctions that could be reapplied quickly “and the fact that this will be a subject of intense negotiation,” said a senior administration official, who insisted on anonymity to parse the president’s words. “But we’ve always made clear the principle that sanctions relief will have to be phased and in response to Iranian actions, and that continues to be the case.”

Oh, brother. Obama was lauded by Matt Yglesias for his creative "foreign policy by gaffe" back when we were young and optimistic in 2008. But Obama's stray flappings were far less helpful when he ad-libbed his Syrian red-line fever in 2012. As to Obama's ruminations about an "undivided" Jerusalem and Egypt as a non-ally, well, move on, haters.

Comments

[Jane]

Third time is the charm!

[Jane]

Incompetent or evil?

I'm leaning toward both!

[Jeff Dobbs]

TM:
here in Reality, once sanctions are lifted there will be many, many moneyed interests intent on keeping them lifted. Nothing will be "snapping back" except Obama's head in surprise

....when he reads about it in the newspaper.

[Ben]

So your position is not of the nutjob persuasion. This is a sea-change.

[Sidwhite]

OT but anyone know of a full analysis of the 5th circuit hearing on the immigration stay motion? Guesses on which way this panel will go based on the hearing banter?

[Johns_Creek_Bill]

King Three Putt must placate Iran so he can focus on the real enemy - The Republicans.

I opt for incompetent liar. Nothing in his background suggests that there is even a scintilla of sincerity in anything he has ever done, except for his sincere belief that the greatest threat to the world is the United States of America.

[Cecil Turner]

Per the State Department, we're paying the Iranians ~$12 billion just to continue talking (that was about three-months' worth of cash flow for the regime during normal oil prices . . . a lot more now). And what do the Mullahs do with the cash? Well, buy arms of course . . . including a cool billion (of our cash!) worth of S-300 missiles (a more advanced variant than the $800 million deal that ran afoul of sanctions back in 2007-10), making any plausible military strike impractical.

It's hard to see how we could've taken a stronger hand and negotiated more weakly. Iran's economy was crumbling before the oil price collapse, and they were absolutely desperate for hard currency. We fixed their main concern before even starting talks by unfreezing assets. More importantly, we tacitly recognized the Mullahs' right to enrich uranium at the start of the talks, the only purpose for which (and only possible result) is a nuclear weapon.

Now we're arguing over verification and breakout time, as if the difference between three months and a year makes any qualitative difference in a deal that spans a decade. It doesn't. Moreover, what the inspectors will be watching (if they're allowed complete access) is the Iranians finalizing a nuke program that's already well underway. In the fantasy world where sanctions could be "snapped back," it'd only last something less than a year anyway, until the mullahs' first atomic test. It's funny to see the political fighting over a few minor points, when we've already given away the game.

As to whether it's incompetence or treason, I can't see how anyone could be so consistently pitch perfect in capitulation on whatever point is most advantageous to our enemies. I'm willing to believe John Kerry is that stupid (and blinkered by ideology), but somebody in the Administration has to be smarter than that. (And besides, picking long John to negotiate for our side . . . well, 'nuff said.)

[exdemocrat]

Liar? Certainly. But incompetent? Not in the sense used here.

Let's consider a foundational question or two:
What is the status quo ante that any new deal with Iran is - presumably - intended to improve?

Answer: there is an ongoing sanctions regime in place intended to thwart Iran from getting the bomb.

Question: to what extent is that regime helping towards that end?

If your answer is 'yes', the next question is: are there modifications to that regime needed that would make it even more effective? And what could Iran do to render the regime no longer necessary?

Obama's incompetence lies not in his inability to follow simple logic but in his refusal to do so. That refusal is based on his disloyalty to the US and its citizens versus the interests of other nations and nationals. Nothing else explains his conduct in this matter (and many others.)

Obama should be impeached for failing in his most fundamental duty as President - upholding his oath of office.

[exdemocrat]

Senator Cotton should craft a new letter, this time aimed directly at the White House, stating that unless the President presents a convincing case to Congress (aka the People's representatives) as to why the deal it proposes to make with the Iranian regime is better for the US and its citizens than the status quo ante or it will impeach him should any such deal be concluded.

[Jane]

Sidwhite,

I bet Clarice has one. I'm betting on the good guys. We will see.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

What is with the human instinct to not take people at their word?

When the mullahs say "death to America and the Zionist entity" what do people think they mean?

When Barry says he's going to fundamentally transform America, that every backwater dictatorship is just as exceptional as the US and that his domestic opponents are his real enemies, why would anyone assume he doesn't mean exactly what he says?

He's a bad man doing bad things with bad intentions. That the results are catastrophic (and we're only at the beginning of the catastrophe) is the natural, inevitable result of bad policy and it appears he is quite content with those catastrophic results. Were he not he would change his bad policies rather than doubling down on them.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Here's the Slimes analysis of the 5th circuit hearing.

[Janet]

This is a good point in TM's post - "Wait a second - the hardliners on our side are irresponsible nutjobs but the hardliners on their side need to be placated?"

ME in chaos, giving Iran $$$ so they can fund all their proxy groups, helping Iran get nukes, importing ME "refugees" by the thousands...& here we sit with open borders.

Doom.

[exdemocrat]

Ig - note that the principle argument from the liberal judge in favor of allowing the EA amnesty to proceed pending litigation of its constitutional it was as follows:

"the [next] administration could simply end the deferred-action program at any point and deport people who were eligible for it"

If they chose to, therefore, any of the Republican candidates could issue a statement saying that he (or she) would do just that. If they did so, every illegal would face the dilena of going public in return for just 18 months of legitimacy before deportation.
Not exactly the message the amnesty's cheerleaders wish to spread.

[Jane]

OT: Just days before jurors are expected to hear prosecutors' arguments to sentence Tsarnaev to death, Bill and Denise Richard -- whose son, Martin, was killed and daughter, Jane, lost a leg in the the April 2013 attacks -- called on federal prosecutors to take the death penalty "off the table."

Essentially their argument is that they lost their son, their daughter was maimed and the mother brutally injured as well. They do not want their children to spend the rest of their lives living thru death penalty appeals.

I supported the death penalty for the Boston bomber asshole until I read this editorial. Now I want the jury to honor the victim's wishes (as long as the families of the other victims agree).

If given a life sentence he goes to CO to live 45 feet underground and never see the light of day (supposedly).

what do you guys think?

You can hear about it here: http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/04/us_attorney_responds_to_richard_family_plea_to_nix_death_penalty

[Jane]

Here is the editorial:

[clarice]

From Omri Ceren, at the Israel Project:
This Wall Street Journal article by Carol Lee and Jay Solomon went live yesterday just as everyone was going home, but it's everywhere this morning so I wanted to pass it along. Pasted at the bottom. It reports out the President’s comments from yesterday, which you would have gotten from me along with video, in which he moved to placate Khamenei's new demand for immediate sanctions relief upon signing a deal.
The White House is trying to spin the new concession, which contradicts the factsheet they distributed the evening of the Lausanne announcement, in two ways.
1st -- they're telling journalists that the new concession doesn’t matter because the snapback mechanism is more important than the sequencing of sanctions relief. That's a difficult position to defend politically, because it's obvious the White House caved again, and even more difficult to defend substantively, because snapback only works in theory if the Iranian economy is sufficiently fragile for pressure to matter - and immediate relief would stabilize that economy. Beyond the optics and the theory, very few people believe the administration's Rube Goldberg mechanism for restoring sanctions would even work (FDD's Mark Dubowitz has been saying so for months - http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/content/hill-briefing-wrap-iran-p51-and-congress - and David Rothkopf was brutal on the question last week - https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/09/hillary-clinton-is-the-real-iran-snap-back-obama-china-russia-sanctions/). It's just not a great position to defend.
But this is what the administration has left, so this is what they're going with. You'll see more of it – ‘snapback more important than sanctions’ - over the weekend and into Monday as White House officials do damage control.
2nd -- they're trying to borderline-gaslight journalists by insisting that there was no new concession, that the President didn't signal any new flexibility, and that sanctions relief will still be phased out. That line is falling a bit flat - Obama said what he said - but now the question is how they intend to square the circle. How do they make sanctions relief phased in principle, so they can keep saying they didn't cave, but instantaneous in practice, so that the Iranians will take the concession? On that point there's a suggestive little scooplet buried in the WSJ article:
The Obama administration estimates Iran has between $100 billion and $140 billion of its oil revenue frozen in offshore accounts as a result of sanctions. U.S. officials said they expect Tehran to gain access to these funds in phases as part of a final deal. Iran could receive somewhere between $30 billion and $50 billion upon signing the agreement, said congressional officials briefed by the administration. Complicating negotiations, U.S.-ally Saudi Arabia has repeatedly charged in recent weeks that Iran has provided significant funding, arms and training to Shiite insurgents in Yemen who gained control of the country’s capital, San’a, and forced the country’s president to flee. Iran has denied these allegations. Iran also is a major supporter of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, the Assad regime in Syria and a group of Shiite militias fighting in Iraq.
An immediate and irreversible infusion of $50 billion would boost Iran's GDP by more than 10% overnight and signal the end of meaningful financial pressure. But it would also allow the White House to continue insisting that sanctions relief was being phased out in principle: all the sanctions that matter would get removed immediately, but there would still be a few sanctions left as a legal matter.
The trick could still prove politically toxic on the Hill. It would provide the Iranians with an infusion of $50 billion for their terror infrastructure and their march across the Middle East, which would panic our Arab allies. who are at war with Iran because of those campaigns. It’s also $50 billion to a regime that is dedicated to America's destruction and that killed over a thousand American soldiers. That spins itself.
Omri.
412-512-7256
@cerenomri
---
U.S. Suggests Compromise on Iran Sanctions
President Obama said Tehran could receive significant economic relief immediately after concluding a deal to curb its nuclear program
By CAROL E. LEE and JAY SOLOMON
April 17, 2015 6:06 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama suggested on Friday that Iran could receive significant economic relief immediately after concluding a deal to curb its nuclear program, a gesture towards one of Tehran’s key demands.
Mr. Obama said such a move would depend on the final accord all

[Soylent Red]

Incompetent or evil?

The eternal question of Barack Obama rises once again. As a blank slate, I think you could paint him as either, don't you? Really the only hard and fast rule is that you paint in the medium of American blood and treasure.

"Wait a second - the hardliners on our side are irresponsible nutjobs but the hardliners on their side need to be placated?"

In this case the word "hardliners" is being used in two different contexts. Our hardliners do not agree with Zero's ideas about how we should be dealing with Iran.

OTOH, Iran's hardliners do agree with Zero ideas on how we should be dealing with Iran. In fact, they'd like more of it.

[Thomas Collins]

Extremely effective at doing Gramsci's and Ayres's and Cloward-Piven's bidding. What more could Obama have done to advance these individuals' agenda?

And with Congress still unwilling to call a halt to this, Obama has a chance to do much more damage before his term expires.

Regarding Iran, for example, which POTUS could have been more effective in setting forth the framework for Iran to become a nuclear power and to marginalize Israel?

Bernie Sanders would be a POTUS more supportive of traditional American interests than Obama.

[Frau Rechtlosigkeit]

Soylent - Pres. Blank-Slate told us we could write on him what we see/want. I see him as incompetent liar and want him lost from the rear view mirror.

Operation Snapback - the preezy might want to talk to the alleged Searchlight pederast before acting.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

I believe Obama suffers from a disturbingly disordered brain function - he is unable to act logically in any sphere of normalcy. This dysfunction is exasperated by an narcissistic ego and the determination to follow his fatally flawed instincts to wherever they take him. Compounding the monumentally disastrous effects Obama's foreign policy 'decisions' are presenting to American security, is the fact that no one in his inner circle or any of his hand-chosen federal agency heads have the nerve or the wisdom to stop him.

Therefore, it is my opinion that Congress should use the Constitutional tools at its disposal and find a way to expeditiously, legally declare Obama mentally unfit for office. Congress should then seek humane institutional confinement for Mr.Obama for the duration of his term in office. The escalating danger this president presents to every American and to every American ally throughout the world is so obvious, even some in his far left voting base and the liberal media are beginning to sense the aroma of impending doom.

Surely my comments must sound sarcastic......or not.

[Man Tran]

CH from last night,

Teh Tams and moving to NY: if she still is hanging with her gal pal from a few years ago (the one who looks like Linda Carter during her WW days), it might be a bit tough working out the details. Anything short of her own show probably involves commuting.

[Steve]

Star Wars Celebration Anaheim Live Stream, Powered by Verizon - Day 3

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/04/star-wars-celebration-anaheim-live.html

[exdemocrat]

Or not, I suppose:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/17/marco-rubio-in-spanish-obamas-first-executive-amnesty-important-people-benefitting-from-it/

[Captain Hate]

what do you guys think?

It should be decided on the merits of the case and not what the victims want.

[exdemocrat]

Jane - obviously that would be a win for those interests who seek to eliminate the DP by making the appeal process interminable.
Also, while the defendant may be able to waive his appeal rights, that wouldn't prevent subsequent challenges to that waiver, nor, more importantly, to habeas actions on his behalf.
Could be useful for trading for future deserters though, I guess.

[Captain Hate]

Man Tran, thanks for those details. Tammy is admirably reticent to bring her romantic life into her on air discussions other than to openly state that she is teh lezzo. Maybe she does that so that the dimwits that she regularly skewers won't take out their butthurt on her squeeze without at least doing a bit of work to determine just who she is, which would eliminate a significant number of the lazy loads..

[daddy]

daddy will be interested to hear that Indianapolis's xcellent mayor, Greg Ballard, is being talked about as a primary challenger.
Ballard is an ex-Marine logistics officer who ran and defeated Bart Peterson, a 3-term mayor.
Ballard had zero political experience.

Miss Marple,

The cheers me up big time. Very encouraging. Plus excellent comments at the link to the Indianapolis Star story, which IIRC endorsed Greg Ballard's Dem opponent when former Marine Officer Ballard first ran for Indianapolis Mayor 2 terms ago. He has obviously made an overall good impression in his 2 terms. Thanks for the link.

And kudos to you for your correct reading of this Pence guy from the git-go. Boy, did you have him pegged.

[Rick Ballard]

The Persian Rug needs to explain how "snap back" will win the approval of Putin and Xi. I don't believe the Eurasian Co-Prosperity Sphere has any further interest in playing nice with the UN/IMF/World Bank agglomeration of idiots.

The Persian Rug needs a thorough beating and he's going to get it.

[Semper Fi]

We doin't need jarheads in Indianapolis but rather in Iraq, Afghanistan and soon, Iran. We need to kill this enemy, not placate with kissy face appeasement. Do any of you think they don't want to eliminate you, your family, your values or your country? Really?

[Jane]

Semper Fi, we know they want to eliminate us. You are barking up the wrong tree.

[daddy]

"I am going to get some yard work done ahead of the bad weather heading our way."

Posted by: Miss Marple

Is it Groundhog Day?

PHIL
Listen! In ten seconds Larry is
going to walk through that door
and take you away from me.

RITA
Larry?

PHIL
But you can't let him. Please
believe me. You've got to
believe me.

RITA
I don't --
Larry pokes his head in the doorway, looks around and spots
Rita.

PHIL
Look.
As Rita turns around to see Larry, Phil grabs a pen and pad
from a passing waitress and quickly writes something down as
Larry makes his way to their table. Phil finishes writing.

LARRY
(to Rita)
You ready? We better get going
if we're going to stay ahead of
the weather.
Phil hands the paper to Rita. She reads it.

RITA

(READING)
" . . . stay ahead of the weather. "
Larry looks at the paper.

[Semper Fi]

Mame, not barking up any tree just makiung a stetement of fact. I lurk here from time to time and notice that no one except for Cecil and Sandy have no idea on how you defeat this disease to freedom and liberty. All they talk about is Obama and his Marxist politicies yet no one presents a solution. Mine is what you all might call " elimination theorty". You may think you are the tree but you are only someone wathcing the tree.

[daddy]

Clarice posted this great new Anti-Hillary ad on an earlier thread.

It was so good I'm relinking it: Is Hillary Trustworthy

[Miss Marple]

Jane,

What the parents don't realize is that if he is incarcerated for life, one of two things are possible:

1. Numerous terrorist attacks and hostage events demanding that he be set free.

2. Obama giving him a full pardon for "humanitarian reasons."

I sympathize with their concern about endless appeals, but I am more concerned about the problems keeping him in prison will cause.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

What is he 21?
He'll die of old age before he gets executed anyway.

[narciso]

I think it was Lenin, who illustrated the short sidedness of capitalists, re their main adversaries, something about rope. rich reminded me
some weeks ago, that is was Italy and Greece that were the primary recipients of pre Revolutionary Iranian crude,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--...no one except for Cecil and Sandy have no idea on how you defeat this disease to freedom and liberty. All they talk about is Obama and his Marxist politicies yet no one presents a solution.--

That is not a statement of fact.

[narciso]

McVeigh was pretty much a fast track because he waived his last appeal, if memory serves, six years

there was a piece in the Post, how the authorities were talking one of the heads of the ISB mosque a bad sign,

[Semper Fi]

So, give me your solution that you have presented here previiously to denoucne my statement, Ignatz?

Date and time appreciated.

[Miss Marple]

Well, I am a retired grandmother (well, sort of retired except for my business) and as much as I would like to sling a rifle over my shoulder and head out to join the Resistance, I sort of have limitations due to arthritis and high blood pressure.

So I comment on sites. It's what I can do.

[daddy]

Jane,

As of this morning our Government Hill bears are still alive. Here's todays local TV Broadcast on the controversy:

Anchorage reacts to Fish & Game’s plan to euthanize Government Hill bears

[narciso]

at every step, they minimize the danger posed by their malfeasance,

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/04/figures-sympathetic-buzzfeed-article-on-american-jihadi-downplays-hertreasonous-role-with-isis/

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Of course they want to eliminate us. And Obama is - for some insane reason - giving them every possible license and recourse to do so! That is why I believe Obama needs to be stopped, using whatever method is Constitutionally available -- since Congress has stated publicly that 'impeachment is off the table'.

[Semper Fi]

I am off to chow.

But I want to share something first with all of you. This is not policy or politics or snarking your political opponents but something more real. Life and death. Those fuckers in Southeast LA, the Crips and Bloods or the MG13 or whatever they are called are pikesrs to the death squad of towel heads coming for yoiu. Don't discount what I am telling you. I am just a stupid lurker that had to speak up because there is too much naivite here based on what you think is important tot discuss like income inequality and Obama's birth certificate.

It is so unimportant you wont believe me when I tell you that they are coming and they are coming to kill you. Bombs, bullets, crasshing planes or domes. These fuckers are for real. Dumb as rout cks but as lethal as a 50 call from 10 feet.

Enjoy you saftey.

[Jane]

Semper Fi,

Well then I say you should post more, if for no better reason than you gave.

[narciso]

so it would seem:

http://babalublog.com/2015/04/17/u-s-air-support-only-for-terrorists-no-freedom-fighters-need-apply/

[pagar]

Not the smartest diplomacy!

http://rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/muslim-imam-in-tennessee-preaches-jews-christians-are-filthy-their-lives-property-can-be-taken-in-jihad-by-muslims-in-america/

"Yasir Qadhi is not only a Memphil Imam, but is is also the Dean of Academic Affairs at the Al-Maghrib Institute. He is a hafiz (has memorized the Qur’an) and he has an M.A. in the Islamic Creed and a B.A. in Islamic Sciences from Islamic University of Medina, as well as a master’s and a doctorate in Islamic Studies from Yale."

What do the people who teach the subject at Yale believe? What did the people that taught this guy at Yale think/do about his beliefs?

[narciso]

we have some inkling, after all they invited the Taliban's spokesman to lecture:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/1395/pandering-for-saudi-dollars-at-yale#

around the time of the 'great debate' in the streets of Tehran, Princeton had invited Mousavian one of the lead negotiators from the first round of nuclear talks, to which he admitted he had deceived, as a visiting scholar.

[Jeff Dobbs]

no one except for Cecil and Sandy have no idea

I don't think you should be calling out Cecil and Sandy for having no idea.

[Semper Fi]

That is not what I sad, man. Go back and read my post. This is sort of typical here. Making shit out of reality. But then some people have to be snarky and jerks when others are trying to be real.

[Jane]

Semper Fi,

The door is open. Go for it.

[Miss Marple]

Semper Fi, are you familiar with black humor?

Many of us know how serious the situation is. Many of us are OLD and cannot do much except carp and call and write.

I asmire you for your service and appreciate your concern, but attacking us when we are doing our best is not really helpful.

What do you suggest?

[daddy]

On the topic of Death Penalty verdicts in US trials involving black on white crime, I suppose I am not surprised that I had to go to an Australian link to find out anything about the verdict that was just handed down regarding the Black murderer of the visiting White Australian College Baseball player in Oklahoma:

Chris Lane: Chancey Luna, 17, found guilty of murdering Australian baseballer in Duncan

Luna has been found guilty of murdering Australian baseball player Chris Lane and sentenced to life in prison without parole.

Lane, originally from Melbourne, was a student at East Central University in the town of Ada and was shot in the back while he was jogging on a street in Duncan, Oklahoma, on August 16, 2013.

The jury only took a little over an hour to find 17-year-old Luna guilty of first-degree murder, after a four-day trial.

Fairly straightforward story on the tragedy from the Australian Broadcasting network, but if you click on the NBC version you get treated to the Black murder's White mother blubbering about how her murderous son is not a murderer: 'Bored' Teen Convicted of Murder in Shooting of Australian Student Chris Lane

Luna's (the killers) mother tearful and angry over the decision: "They got what they wanted. They took my son...My son is not a killer.

According to a Google search this Black on White murder verdict has been covered at the UK Daily Mail, the New York Post, and the New York Daily News, and at a couple local TV networks.

If I can trust Google's posted links, this Black on White murder verdict does not appear to have been covered by CNN, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, FOX, The New York Times, The LA Times, The WaPo, and the rest of the usual suspects.

Apparently the shooting was not a "Hate Crime", it was simply a Black guy shooting a White guy because he was bored.

[narciso]

ABC got it right, well it must be a 'local crime story' meanwhile the two minute hate continues in North Charleston, where they have gone to question Schlager's partner, who happens to be African American,

[daddy]

Nice line from Rand Paul:

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) dinged Hillary Clinton during a speech in New Hampshire on Saturday, suggesting the Democratic presidential candidate could face a serious primary challenge.

"I´m starting to worry that when Hillary Clinton travels, there´s gonna need to be two planes – one for her and her entourage, and one for her baggage,"

Paul, himself a presidential candidate, said to laughs and applause

[Jeff Dobbs]

Yes, it was snarky. I don't like grammar nazis, but you know...that is what you said, even if I knew what you meant.

Here's the thing: You come in as if You Are The Only Man Who Gets It And Everyone Else Is An Imbecile and you get treated like the guy who thinks I'm The Only Man Who Gets It And Everyone Else Is An Imbecile.

Most times - in any area of life - the guy who comes in as I'm The Only Man Who Gets It And Everyone Else Is An Imbecile typically gets no traction on actually getting the ear of the audience he just insulted.

So, if you want to inform, you may want to try a different approach.

I think there is less disagreement with your positions than you think there is. There might be disagreement about the amount of time spent on this topic versus that topic - but not on what needs to be done about the topic that animates you.

[narciso]

of course. Geraldo 'removed all doubt' but that's already been stipulated,

[narciso]

rhetorical question, no we dare not:

http://moelane.com/2015/04/18/gary-hart-oligarchy-citizens-united/

[sbw]

Semper Fi, your definition of the main battle front is different than mine. And to suggest that many of us are not on the front line, confuses what the front line is.

This is a viral war of ideas. Boots on the ground stop the cannon fodder from advancing but don’t defeat the ideas.

The long march through the culture has to be stopped here. You go shoot 'em up, but the rust here will bite you in the ass if you are not careful.

[DebinNC]

I don't know what it is different about OK that caused BOzo to fail to carry a single county in either election, but I wish whatever it is could be identified and replicated elsewhere.

[henry]

Reality sandwich: very few here are active duty military. Several more served in the past (does not include me).

Semper Fi, while I appreciate your "elimination theory," yelling at a bunch of civilians accomplishes nothing. Attempts to incite (?????) via badgering will not work.

For whatever reason, the American character is to ignore peril as long as possible, avoid preparation, then respond with creativity and vigor. (see Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima). A military corps to build on is but one requirement, the other is the unrivaled industrial capacity of a free market economy combined with unrestrained scientific inquiry. Most of us here live in and are concerned with erosion of the latter.

[narciso]

from last night's thread, btw, it's odd it all ended up with Team Assange:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11546891/Ben-Afflecks-slave-owning-ancestor-censored-from-genealogy-show.html

[narciso]

no, she's probably wrong, the problem isn't
'austerity' it's no growth policies,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11546046/The-most-terrifying-thing-about-Nicola-Sturgeon-is-that-she-may-be-sort-of-right.html

but the Tories are tied to the LD's like Scrooge was to Marley,

[daddy]

On the Black on White murder, I found this interesting.

The ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) story says this:

(The Killer) Luna did not show remorse or provide an explanation for his actions before he was sentenced.

The district attorney said Luna also expressed no emotion at the verdict, nor sentence.

Now we swap over to the NBC story which says this:

After his guilty verdict Luna was escorted to his cell. On the way he made a quick and quiet apology to Christopher Lane's family.

That's from the video, and they show video of him supposedly making this apology.

They are lying. It is nonexistent. Watch the NBC Video here and see if you can see or hear any apology.

This is BS, and is as much BS as the lies about Tea Party folks hollering out Racial slurs at Black members of Congress.

If NBC has some other video of this monster apologizing then show it, but don't show us this and claim he's apologizing in it because he isn't. NBC is lying.

[narciso]

besides the Zimmerman matter, this is the network that apparently lied about who had taken their leading foreign correspondent, Richard Engel, so magic eight ball says yes,

[Extraneus]

Those fuckers in Southeast LA, the Crips and Bloods or the MG13 or whatever they are called are pikesrs to the death squad of towel heads coming for yoiu. Don't discount what I am telling you.

Whoa.

Do any of you think they don't want to eliminate you, your family, your values or your country? Really?

Wait. You mean, they're super serious???

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--So, give me your solution that you have presented here previiously to denoucne my statement, Ignatz?

Date and time appreciated.--

Not particularly interested in denouncing your statement, but there have been innumerable discussions here around "rubble makes no trouble" vs nation building vs idiot trolls who think we deserve what we get vs most things in between. I personally am solidly in the rubble/trouble camp which it sounds like you are as well.
You will however have to waste your own time if you'd like date and time stamps.

You should lurk more.

[narciso]

so where are those supposed incriminating emails,
there are very few WASps in Affleck's family tree,
and the Assange link does not really point to them,

[And will be again, but not soon enough.]

Face it, but for Allah placing unearned wealth under their feet, they'd be nowhere.

[Neo]

Why does the word "poodle" come mind ?

[narciso]

what is the farsi word for poodle:

http://www.iranwatch.org/iranian-entities/mohsen-fakhrizadeh-mahabadi

note how these discussions never mention the personnel, locations, or operations that would be underscrutiny,

[daddy]

Professor Gates wrote: "For the first time one of our guests has asked us to edit out something about one of his ancestors - the fact that he owned slaves.
"Now, four or five of our guests this season descend from slave owners. We've never had anyone ever try to censor or edit what we found. He's a megastar. What do we do?"

I wonder if Professor Skip Gates declined for "Editorial Reason's" to not include the biographical info about being descendants of slave owners, in the shows he did on those four or five other guests?

My guess is no but to find out I'd have to watch his Bulls#$% Show and I ain't doing it.

[Jane]

Scott Walker is about to give the keynote speech at the NH Summit. On C-span and maybe Fox.

[Skoot]

Nice comments from retired Gen.Mattis go around paywall yada.

Hey, I heard Gary Player was doing pushups in the 60's..... what? too soon:)

[exdemocrat]

Daddy - I'm not sure they claim it is in the video, so its possible it happened off camera. Nevertheless, the decision to lead with that tidbit (even assuming there's a witness to it) tells the tale.
(BTW, in all the murder cases I worked on, there never was a mother who reacted any other way than this one. It may sound harsh, but IMO that denialism is a contributory factor.)

[narciso]

Skip Gates doesn't seem to 'grok' the purpose of his own show, mind you he's asking the folks who couldn't think of anything to ask their patron Zaphod, which is how they came up with White House Down,

[maryrose]

This probably belongs on the Turkey thread but Barack Hussein will pa der to them that is a given
And in return just like in the Iraq war during President Bush they will refuse to help us

[Miss Marple]

My personal opinion is that Gates pre-selected people by checking out their history first.

In a nation with so many people whose ancestors arrived after slavery ended, and with another bunch descended from people from the North, what are the odds that he would have 4 or 5 in one season descended from slaveowners?

[narciso]

he has given them carte blanche in Libya and Syria, where they compete with the kingdom and the emirates in funding the most extreme rebel factions,

[maryrose]

In answer to Semper Fi
We obtain small victories like getting local people elected to state government
In Ohio we dumped a sitting governor Strickland and made sure our state legislature both House andSenate. Are Republican. Lucan
We could have defeated Obama in the last election if he didn't have thugs like Lois Lerner targeting conservative get out the vote groups

[maryrose]

Also we got Rob Portman elected to the Senate and he is tough on terrorism
Are you from California Is t it time you dumped DiFi and Boxer and get Repub Senator

[narciso]

this interview, plus the journal review, suggests he missed the point:

http://www.npr.org/2015/04/05/396359930/explosive-protests-u-s-bombings-during-days-of-rage

they were trained in Cuba, in order to do this from the get go, much like the Brigatte Rossi trained in Czechoslovakia,

[henry]

Jane, what time is Walker speaking? Went to CSpan and saw him wander past the tables, but nada since besides a bunch of NH muckity mucks drinking wine.

[daddy]

ExDem,

It sure looks to me like they are saying that he apologized and that they are trying to show that apology. They open with him walking in handcuffs surrounded by cops and media microphones, and the reporter says:

"After his guilty verdict Luna was escorted to his cell. On the way he made a quick and quiet apology to Christopher Lane's family."

Then they immediately turn on the audio of the scene we have been watching and let that audio run for a few seconds, so that if he was offering "a quick and quiet apology" we would hear it.

I'm guessing NBC intentionally produced the clip that way to make us think he apologized and that we saw and heard it. But he didn't. At least not in what they showed us.

That's what caught my attention in the first place. They told me he apologized so I was surprised that I did not hear it when they turned on the audio and I didn't hear it. So I replayed that bit again and again and again. I can't say exactly why NBC is intentionally misleading us about what appears to me to be an unrepentant murderer, but in my opinion they are intentionally misleading us.

I think anyone viewing that clip and not paying close attention would come away with the impression that they had just seen the perp apologize for the murder. (I'm probably overthinking this, but I'm angry)

[clarice]

Oh dear, Miss Marple, strap on your armor:http://rightwingnews.com/democrats/blacks-only-indiana-school-district-bans-white-grade-school-kids-from-field-trips-to-colleges/

[clarice]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/02/01/donations-to-karl-rove-s-groups-decline-98-after-declaring-war-on-tea-party/

[daddy]

My personal opinion is that Gates pre-selected people by checking out their history first.

Good point, Miss Marple.

Why is Skip Gates, Obama's knee-jerk racist Harvard buddy choosing these guests with slave-owning ancestors, and what is he trying to accomplish by highlighting them? Legitimate questions.

BTW, Scout has a hurt foot and woke up this morning unable to put any weight on it. Took her to the vets who couldn't find anything sprained, cut, or broken, so they gave her some big aspirin and said don't walk her over the weekend.

I'm thinking this will be the first day of no long dog walks in 4 or 5 years. (Fry won't care since he's lazy)

Don't know what to do with myself.

[lyle]

(Obama won't care since he's lazy)

[maryrose]

Rove needs to embrace the Tea Party and I hasve the whiteboard to prove it all Repubs should take note if running for office
Jindals killing it on Cspan

[Jane]

Henry,

He was supposed to speak at 6:30. Sununu is introducing him now (after he gets his 2 cents in)

[Miss Marple]

clarice,

I read about that this afternoon while taking a break from yard work.

South Bend is dem country, up there by Notre Dame. If I were a parent I would be throwing a fit, for sure.

However, because it is not in the Indy area it won't get much coverage here, unless talk radio covers it on Monday. I will send a note to Tony Katz who has been on a rant about how schools act like THEY are the boss of kids in all things.

Rush is off the big station here as of Monday. I will have to see what station won the contract since Emmis dropped him. (Their excuse was like the Colts had to drop Peyton Manning because they couldn't invest in him at the end of his career. I am not buying it. Jeff Smulyan is a big democrat donor.)

[Jeff Dobbs]

That Breibart-Rove link is from Feb 2014, clarice.

Comparing donations in 2013 vs 2012 is stealing a base. I think it safe to assume that the first year after a presidential election is the lowest political fundraising year for everyone.

If donations in 2014 were down, that might be a story. But a quick google shows stories of Rove-associated organizations spending 100M on the election.

[narciso]

our most recent lurker, seemed to be 'dissapointed'
that there wasn't more hulk smash, type commentary, at this site,

[narciso]

so Schumer's creature, best known for kneecapping W, first undercounts the number of jay vee recruits in the American pool, and then defames Poland, almost to Volodya's specifications,

[narciso]

when we elected someone who never knew it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-did-america-forget-that-its-america/2015/04/17/2bf6642e-e467-11e4-905f-cc896d379a32_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b

[henry]

Jane, I grabbed a beer & waited it out. Walker did well, and I was surprised by how well Sununu did. Thanks again for the heads up!

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

TM -

Thank you for the several very thoughtful posts today.

If I may be so bold, may I suggest limiting your posts to one on any given day? That way, your work will have the opportunity to be fully explored and appreciated, before it gets passed over for the latest post.

It saddens me, seeing your contributions receiving only a limited response.

[Gentlejim]

Narc, I read some of the comments following the article. Is there some sort of genetic mutation that occurs when one becomes liberal that makes it impossible to stay on subject? Comments always seem to be deflection, "Bush did this or that" or " But, but but". Liberals are worse than five year olds in that respect.

[narciso]

maybe it's studied ignorance or a Soros directed swarm at work,