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April 18, 2015

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Captain Hate

One of the reasons I shill continually for the Weekly Standard is that its articles have more integrity than what Rupert's Gazette has devolved to (imo of course). In fact the next time one of Murdoch's underlings hector me by phone to come back into the fold I'll tell them that I don't trust them any more.

Few subjects encourage me to skip over more than any discussion of immigration in large part because I don't feel that anybody really addresses the full scope of issues rather than a few which tend to irritate me. This article from December, written in response to the GOP flailing in trying to respond to 404's EO, rewarded my time spent in reading it:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/what-do-illegal-immigrants-want_820648.html#

As they consider their substantive response to President Obama’s recent initiative, Republicans need to ponder how they have arrived at this point. Not for the first time, they will have to reflect on the shortsightedness of their natural allies in the business sector. More counterintuitively, the GOP will also need to think about how it has allowed immigrant advocates to define this problem in a way that admits of no solution.
narciso

note the two other candidates for Robert Hays' Stryker were Bruce Jenner! and David Letterman!!
(who did have a small role in the film)

narciso

you could reverse, the exclamation points,

Threadkiller

Arpaio contempt hearing this week: Intent is key

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/19/arpaio-contempt-hearing-intent-key/26050811/

Neo

The Pantone Color Institute, which normally finds itself in the news exactly once a year, when it proclaims the "color of the year" -- 2015's is marsala -- last week heralded the christening of a new color: "Minion Yellow," named for the rascally henchmen who assist Gru in the "Despicable Me" films.

narciso

any retreat will be considered a victory on the other side,


http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/04/obama-is-right-the-republican-senate-is-embarrassing.php

narciso

this fellow Pinchuk, is a busy oligarch:

http://www.pinchukfund.org/en/projects/11/

James D.

CH, part of the problem is that the GOP is absolutely terrible at expressing simple, straightforward ideas. Obviously immigration is a complex issue that has many facets.

But all conversation should begin with a basic principle, which the GOP seems unable or unwilling to state and defend: "A country has not only the right but the duty to control its borders."

Dave (in MA)

Narciso@9:30, and the studio was trying to push Barry Manilow for the role.

Man Tran

Narciso,

We ran into David Zucker at one of Horowitz's soirées a few years ago. Definitely a conservative and had a permanent tongue in cheek way about him that was delightful.

jimmyk

I presume henry and GUS are familiar with this, but it's still pretty shocking (via @Iowahawk):

As if the home invasion, the appropriation of private property, and the verbal abuse weren’t enough, next came ominous warnings. Don’t call your lawyer. Don’t tell anyone about this raid. Not even your mother, your father, or your closest friends.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417155/wisconsins-shame-i-thought-it-was-home-invasion-david-french

Appalled

James D.:

In this case, there is a real conflict between you thoughts and this -- which is a core American tenet (it being on the Statue of Liberty and everything):

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door

This is one of the reasons of the squirming about of the GOP on this issue. This sentiment is in our DNA, in the same way the Bill of Rights is. A lot of this really do believe this snippet of poetry, and it is part of our conception of American exceptionalism.

henry

Appalled, "yearning to breathe free" is not the same thing as whining for a free lunch.

narciso

if you read that great Spiegel piece, that Neo linked, (so great the nazguls don't believe it)
this is how Islamic State came to be, subterfuge,
blackmail, and occasionally stronger steps, which
is keeping with the Baath and the Golden Square before them, Bagdadi is obviously a figurehead, as was Zarquawi before him,

narciso

and yet we didn't let anyone come through this country, willy nilly, we had intake centers, like Liberty Island, like the Freedom Tower,

Rick Ballard

Henry,

I will be sorely disappointed if Chisholm is allowed to retain immunity regarding his actions. He really needs to be financially ruined. I really would like to see the RICO statutes invoked as they were in Atlanta regarding the fraudulent testing.

Orange is definitely Chisholm's color.

Captain Hate

I really would like to see the RICO statutes invoked as they were in Atlanta regarding the fraudulent testing

Yes that should be the template for dealing with those vermin. As for the Bob Corker types: Rope and lampposts.

narciso

so this began with Walker's inquiry into misappropriated state funds, isn't always about money, Armitage didn't let the favor Libby had done for him a decade ago, stand in the way of his pelf,

henry

Rick, that will have to wait for the SC. Very iffy.

Janet

That poem isn't in my DNA & it doesn't look like the Bill of Rights is in the DNA of the Democrats.

That poem doesn't take precedence over our Constitution.

James D.

Appalled, there is no conflict at all.

Control of our borders does not mean turning everyone away. It does not mean slamming the door on everyone who is "yearning to breathe free." It simply means we - as every single other sovreign state on the planet - choose who we allow in, and under what conditions. We decide how many, and how frequently, and how much effort is made to assimilate them.

Nothing in the poem conflicts with that.


Ben

Yes. Those John Doe investigations are shocking especially since the victims are no doubt white. Wrong ox gored.

henry

narciso, yes. it started with a simple crime discovered by Walker. Then the progs decided he wasn't of the body and did as Landrew wanted.

Appalled

henry:

You ever see how hard your average Mexican immigrant construction worker works?

henry

Further note. That article glossed over the complicity of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal as house leaker for Chisolm in attempting to cause as much damage as possible in the elections (all three of Walker's plus the various senate recalls).

clarice

Oh, I double -nay, triple--those wishes about the John Doe thugs in Wisconsin. That would be the cherry on top of the hot fudge sundae
.

narciso

hence Soros creates the infrastructure for the assaults with CREW, through Air America, and MSNBC, which is the pupal stage of the former, and the times Monica Davey, still looking for the ppny,

Threadkiller

Only hard working Mexican construction workers hop the border.

narciso

meanwhile the waiting list for legal immigrant is 4.4 million, if I read that right,

Extraneus

Re: the John Doe article, how can they force you not to see a lawyer?

Eric in Boise

You ever see how hard your average Mexican immigrant construction worker works?

Absolutely. So is it asking too much that they do the "hard work" of following the process to come here legally, with respect for our laws?

An antiquated notion, I know...

Old Lurker

Yes, "Yearning to be free" is the operative phrase. This country was founded upon and became great in the human instinct to throw off the shackles of serfdom, monarchy, dictators, and religious correctness. Serfdom to Serfdom in how many generations?

Janet

You ever see how hard your average Mexican immigrant construction worker works?

???? Let them come legally.

These guys weren't construction workers - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/06/suspected-gunman-in-border-patrol-agent-murder-has-ties-to-gulf-cartel-sources-say/

It's ridiculous to debate immigration when the left throws out...My friend Tom from Mexico is nice, therefore we should have open borders. Let him come legally.

henry

Ext, it is an odd part of the WI Constitution. I don't understand how inability to speak to counsel squares with the US Constitution, but it is the law here. In theory, the legislature will address some of that in the next month or so, along with what to do with the GAB (another prog controlled co-conspirator of the DAs).

narciso

much like the Daily News, trumpeted the Huntress's efforts when she went after the Top Men, then she became an unperson, when she went after Obama,

Ben

'Let him come legally'

I love it when family values are touted by law-abiding conservatives. who would'nt hesitate to break a law when their family is hungry. Ox gored. Yours? So sad. Mine? Apocalypse!

narciso

and when the law is silent, then the Vercotti treatment applies,

narciso

this was what Engelbrecht got from OSHA and the EPA, although this was magnitude worse,

H/t Ring Lardner.

Compare and contrast Jade Alert and John Doe, a soon to be marred couple.

Rick Ballard

Henry,

The John Doe business is the best example of "scratch a progressive and a fascist bleeds" since Wilson's Sedition Act of 1918. It was true in the beginning and it has never changed by a millimeter.

Wisconsin would be the right place for progressive fascism to die.

narciso

category error, this is nothing like Curtiss/Wright

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/04/27/dangerous-gamesmanship?currentPage=all

which the Democrats didn't care for in the 80s as I recall, because they were as always on the other side,

Appalled

James D:

Immigration is an issue that has been thoroughly trashed by both sides, with the result being that there is no real law for most people, and one that is arbitrary and capricious for the unlucky who get caught.

The reality is that, if you are Mexican, you are a fool if you try to immigrate legally, because you will be in line forever. If you go the illegal route, you will not be caught, more likely than not, and nobody will look into your eyes and enforce the law on the books, because that enforcement will undoubtedly be unjust.

In my world, the immigration law would be simple, loose, not larded up with special cases and exceptions, and enforced. (I would support a fence -- but waiting more than a week to come into this country, provided you are not carrying disease, or don't have a record, is wrong.)

I have no faith will get to that place. Too many interest groups profit on the dysfunction. (Much like the rest of government). And there is always the opportunity to pander to fear to stall policy.

Eric in Boise

I have known people with hungry families, Ben, and they chose to accept donations from the food bank, or family, or do extra work on the side to get through.

Not a one of them resorted to breaking laws (e.g. stealing) with the rationalization of "Hey, my family's hungry, so it's OK".

Something tells me that's not how you'd roll.

narciso

the '86 bill was passed with the promise of enforcement, but that was inconvenient for the business interests that pushed it in the first place, much as tax hikes are rarely followed by
budget cuts, in so far as the former always have opportunity for loopholes, until those are closed,

Ben

The cognitive dissonance is SOP for the GOP.

Whining about overeach of teh LAW and in the same breath lamenting it's jnadequacy.

Ben

Food banks in Guatemala? There is a disconnect hereabouts Eric.

narciso

one sees the last 10 years have taught you nothing about how the law is abused, and conversely is silent,

Fortunately, the yearning to be free is a renewable resource.

Well, the exceptional political order drives the prosperity and both are the attraction. The attraction will continue past when the exceptional is no longer, carried by the inertia of prosperity.

glasater

The D's were in control of congress in '86, Narciso so any immigration law was going to be suspect.

Appalled

narciso:

With respect to immigration, it seems the more complex and restrictive the law, the more unenforceable it becomes.

If you keep it simple. the fairer it will be, and the easier it will be to enforce.

But, again, the law will never get to that place.

Ben

Appalled is right about many of the agrarian workers with better skillsets and job integrity than our own laborers. They have strong family values and the drive to succeed. It's a shame our process is daunting in time sensitive issues like feeding your kids.

narciso

the Dems shot down Bork, and didn't stop until they got someone amenable to their designs, they made it impossible for Miguel Estrada, to remain a judicial candidate, same for Rogers Brown, but they always get their apparatchiks in place,

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki


Ordinarily I enjoy Appalled's contributions, but that 9:53 has to be the dumbest thing he has ever written here.

exdemocrat

Generally, I don't waste my time reading what trolls write, but whenever I do, I am always impressed by how consistently they succeed only in revealing their stupidity and venality.

Man Tran

Kim,

You're en fuego this morning considering all the zings over on Willis' latest.

Ben

Ig: He was fine until he loafed 'american exceptionalism'

exdemocrat

Here's a simple immigration law for you, appalled: given the threat of terrorism, no person should be allowed to enter the US without a thorough security clearance. Agree?

James D.

Appalled, before you even get to what the law should be, do you agree with the premise that we have the right to decide what that law is, and to determine who can and can't come into the country, and under what circumstances?

Because the arguments of the left start from a premise that we don't have that right.

Extraneus
In my world, the immigration law would be simple, loose, not larded up with special cases and exceptions, and enforced.

Mine, too. You can come here if you have a job and can support yourself and your family. If, at some time in the future, you are unable to do so, you will need to go back where you came from. None of you will be eligible for government handouts of any kind, except for public schooling.

Appalled

Ignatz:

OK. Why dumb? I can take it.

Threadkiller

Guatemala is filled with conservative starving lawbreakers.

narciso

'we campaign in poetry, and govern in prose,' some one said, Liberty Island was the reality for much of the 19th Century, and the Freedom Tower to our South,

Jeff Dobbs

Let's try another angle on discovering where the TM "TOO amok" line is drawn.

New Thread.

Appalled

James D:

Neither the UN or President Obama, acting on his lonesome, have the right to set US immigration law. Their actions contribute to the general lawlessness that surrounds current immigration "policy".

James D.

We agree on that, Appalled!

But do you agree on the larger premise? That as a sovreign state we have the right to control the number and types and circumstances of immigration into the country?

rse

Kim-I think you'll appreciate where the "believe it anyway and act accordingly" edict actually comes from and why. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/meaningful-learning-or-internalized-hammer-and-sickle-style-habits-of-mind-and-behaviors/

I also believe that the 86 act was intended by Kennedy and his desire to push what he saw as in the USSR's interest (as laid out in the book Dupes) to change the voting population in this country to make a different kind of future majority the reason for a different kind of K-12 and higher education. It was of course the same vision as before but a new rationale. It was also a rationale that was hoping to piggy back on civil rights laws. Precisely what this administration has done in earnest.

narciso

I hadn't considered that angle, rse, just as the HMO bill, helped create the conditions that drove Obamacare, as with the CRA revisions and the financial crisis,

Appalled

James D:

Before this thread goes entirely dead -- yes, I do agree.

narciso

if it was good enough for Obamacare:

Obama’s announcement that he was taking Cuba off the list triggered a forty-five-day period during which Congress can vote to reverse his decision. The White House is in a position to prevail: Obama can veto any congressional resolution he doesn’t like, on either Cuba or Iran. If he does issue a veto, the White House would need the votes of only a third plus one of the members of the House or the Senate to uphold it. Still, departures in American foreign policy as momentous as making peace with the Castro regime or resetting nuclear diplomacy with Iran ought not to be constructed on narrow vote margins in Congress. U.S. v. Curtiss-Wright helped to establish what was referred to during the Cold War as the One Voice Doctrine. That is, despite shifting disagreements between Presidents and Congress, the country should seek to project unity abroad, in order to reassure allies and deter enemies. The doctrine has flaws; it can be used to rationalize an imperial Presidency during national crises, among other things. Yet cohesion in foreign policy is surely preferable to senators sending freelance missives to declared enemies of the state.

narciso

always on the side of the enemy, in nebulous deals, against our interests,

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

From the files of Mindless Verbiage comes this gem of inanity:

More academic waistrels coining a course on the anti-historical Shame of Crones. Western Civ continues their descent into the maelstrom.
Posted by: Ben | April 19, 2015 at 10:44 AM


Could just as easily have been written in three or four different iterations using those words. I'm partial to this random order of the words . . .

"Western academic Crones continue their descent into more Shame. Anti-historical waistrels coining a maelstrom on the course of Civilization."

(Sorry, a tech glitch prevented this from posting yesterday. But it looks just as apropos this morning.)

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--OK. Why dumb? I can take it.--

Because there is absolutely no conflict between secure borders and the sentiments expressed on the Statue of Liberty.

"Give me your tired, your poor, etc", in no way equates with "We will gladly be forced to take your tired, your poor, etc".

The first is a confident, volitional act of Christian charity.
The second is the enervated acquiescence of a failed state too insecure to even defend itself or its heritage and which in the end will no longer be a destination for those yearning to be free because it will no longer be free itself.

Ben

I pissed off a Game of Thrones fan. HBO hasbara.

Appalled

Ignatz:

This is why I ask questions -- your point is much the same as James D's (and the rhetoric would go well in a SciFi story as well).

I think the better answer is that there is not necessarily any conflict between the Statue of Liberty's poem, and sound immigration policy. But I do believe there is conflict between the Hell No rhetoric of Steve King ("Amnesty pardons immigration lawbreakers and rewards them with the objective of their crime—citizenship") and his colleagues and the sentiments on the statue.

narciso

his colleagues are naive at best, do they want skilled labor, that's what in demand, this bill doesn't do that,

boris

"But I do believe there is conflict ..."

Exactly so. You do believe all most some conservatives harbor Appallingly ugly sentiments.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--But I do believe there is conflict between the Hell No rhetoric of Steve King ("Amnesty pardons immigration lawbreakers and rewards them with the objective of their crime—citizenship") and his colleagues and the sentiments on the statue.--

The goalposts are now out of the stadium.
This;

Obviously immigration is a complex issue that has many facets.

But all conversation should begin with a basic principle, which the GOP seems unable or unwilling to state and defend: "A country has not only the right but the duty to control its borders."


is what you said conflicted with the Statue's sentiments.
It doesn't.

Appalled

Ignatz:

Let's be careful of charges of goalpost alteration because the principle of defending one's borders means very different things to different people.

Some days I'm smart and some days I smart.

Man tran, the whole carbon cycle thing is terribly perplexing to me. I'm gratified that this new satellite may help hammer down some of our ignorance into useful knowledge. Nice pearl by Bill Illis over there.

What's the solution, rse? Must it fail big time, as it must, or is there an alternative?

narciso

well it can't work, but then again it's not supposed to, as was the beta test models in the UK and other places,

boris

"the principle of defending one's borders means very different things to different people"

Since consensus between open-border and closed-border advocates is impossible no solution is possible ... but the least we can do is make them equal citizens because anything else would fall short of out "ideals".

Got it.

boris

out Our "ideals"

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Wilson/Plame