The 70th Anniversary of VE Day - Arsenal of Democracy Flyover

Recently I traveled with my family to Washington DC for my seventh grade son's field trip. Unbeknownst to the organizers, the field trip coincided with the 70th anniversary of VE Day.

A commenter here at JOM mentioned that there would be a flyover over DC on the anniversary, so the field trip was re-organized to take advantage of the opportunity to see it. So on Friday, May 8th the field trip took us to Arlington National Cemetery.  We timed the visit so that we ended at the Iwo Jima Memorial just before the flyover began, with a wonderful vantage on the lawn just below the memorial.  

The planes flew down the Potomac River and then turned as they approached the Washington Monument passing directly over the Mall. The flyover included over 50 aircraft from World War II and was organized with the planes flying in formations representing major battles and events in the war.

I'm not much of a photographer, but here is my favorite shot: a B-24 Liberator accompanied by three P-51 Mustangs, representing the Ploesti Raid:

 

For anyone interested, I've included all the photos and videos from our view of the flyover over at my blog TheVoiceinMyHead. 

I want to make sure even on this post that I give credit to my son for identifying all of the planes and helping his poor old dad understand the context of the battles and events the flyover was commemorating.  He's an incredibly intelligent and well-informed young man.

The entire flyover experience was amazing.  Earlier in the week when we first visited the National Air and Space Museum, we had the privilege of watching a tour bus of Honor Flight attendees from Chicago unload and tour the museum.  

It was humbling to be in the presence of heroes such as they.

Link to Last Page of Post.

Comments

[DrJ]

First!

[Miss Marple]

Thank you for this post, Jeff. I am now going over to look at your pictures.

[Eric in Boise]

That must have been splendid to see, Jeff.

At the air show at Mountain Home AFB here a couple of years ago, my (then) five year old grandson asked if I'd buy him a toy P-51 replica (one of his favorite planes). I told him "Sure, and did you know that if it weren't for this airplane, you'd probably be speaking some other language right now?"

He gave me a puzzled look, but the retired vet volunteer behind the counter just smiled.

[henry]

Nice pic & vids. Thanks.

[Miss Marple]

Wonderful pics and videos, Jeff! I am so glad you were there and got pictures! Thanks!

[Rick Ballard]

Nice post, Jeff. Does Hit Jr.'s interest extend to total planes involved on a particular mission and tonnage dropped to achieve the objective?

[Jeff Dobbs]

OL got some spectacular views of the planes at his place - based on where they were staged, their run down the Potomac took them right near his place, both for the actual flyover and practice flights.

IIRC. I mean he plied me with several vodkas on the meetup night, so my memory might be faulty.

[Thomas Collins]

Let's go back a World War. Has anyone read Hew Strachan's The First World War: Volume I: To Arms? If so, would you recommend it?

[maryrosee]

Great pictures Jeff
What a wonderful family memory

[Jeff Dobbs]

Rick:
Does Hit Jr.'s interest extend to total planes involved on a particular mission and tonnage dropped to achieve the objective?

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure it would.

If pressed, he's more into tanks than planes. But if it's WWII, he's read about it. Our father-son summer trip this year is going to be to Norfolk, so let's just add ships to the ol' resume.

In fact, I now need to go downstairs and get him off the computer - he's playing a WWII game.

If I was smart, I'd go to bed (sleep) too.

I'm pretty sure I'm not that smart.

[narciso]

great pics, jeff,

[Beasts of England]

Honor Flight is a damned impressive operation. I remember when my father-in-law took the trip. I don't know if they were the greatest generation, but it would be asinine to argue about it too much.

[Eric in Boise]

And for any fans of the "Fork Tailed Devil" (and what fan of military aviation isn't), this is 25 minutes of heaven. Absolutely wonderful P-38 stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI

Bonus points for JOMers for identifying the name of the ace with 38 kills at the 2:20 mark :)

[Miss Marple]

When I was selling furniture, I had an old guy who was a customer who had beenshot down in the Ploesti raid. He was helped by Yugoslav partisans who hid him in caves and barns.

He didn't tell me. His wife did.

[narciso]

time machime, TM, or is there another explanation,

[Johns_Creek_Bill]

Saw some comments on music at Mass in the prior thread.

Very proud of my daughter - she sang Ave Maria (Bach/Gourand) at 5:30 Mass last night and 10:45 this morning.

I recorded last night's on my IPhone but snuck my digital camera in for this morning. Sat in the balcony and videoed it.

[Soylent Red]

I'm in my mid-forties and WWII airplanes are still neat-o. I'm envious hit.

Dinosaurs and space travel too.

Anyway, maybe next year, if we all make a donation to the organization, they'll do a flyover of Harry Reid's house, and pull the pickle.

[Miss Marple]

Johns Creek Bill, that is wonderful!

I think the problem at my church is that our priest was ordained in the 70's. The music he likes is the music that was introduced when he was young.

I will cut him some slack, as he knows Pope Benedict personally (took a class from him at the North American Pontifical College) and is otherwise a great pastor. He just got the ok to stay at our parish until he retires, for which we are grateful and he is happy.

[pagar]

Gus, What has upset you about Gen Boykin?

[Soylent Red]

My landlord in Augusta, his father, got a posthumous DFC for things he did during the Ploesti Raid. Landlord had all kinds of interesting facts and artifacts.

My great uncle was a bombardier on a B-24. Got shot down somewhere in Germany and spent 14 months as a POW, some of it as a political prisoner at a satellite concentration camp, because he was such a troublemaker for the Nazis. Only book he had to read was a dictionary. Well into his 90s he would fill out NYT crossword puzzles in ink. Guy had interesting stories about flying in those old birds.

[Soylent Red]

EiB:

Is that Richard Bong?

[Soylent Red]

Oh shizzz...

I looked it up.

It was Tom Maguire.

[narciso]

that's why I made the time machine reference,

[Soylent Red]

narciso:

I hate to tell you this but it wouldn't be the first of your references that have gone over my head. ;)

[Rick Ballard]

Soylent,

I think of those as shooting stars reflected in my deep pool of ignorance.

[narciso]

simple how could our host be here and in 1943, leaving out the philadelphia experiment

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/17/fighting-entropy/

our daily belmont,

[Jim Miller]

"Biphobia? Who the hell is afraid of bisexuals?"

Among others, Dan Civilized, as I like to call Seattle's most famous sex columnist. (So far, he hasn't thanked me for improving his name.)

A few years ago, I noticed that he had done a piece attacking bisexuals for being annoying, or something.

(I think his attitude isn't uncommon in his group, though I haven't seen any polls on the question.)

[Jack is Lightnings!]

Soylent,

I have a special enignma machine for Narciso if you'd like to borrow it.

[DebinNC]

Atlanta news station's report of Honor Flight trip my dh and his dad took a week before BOzo barricaded the memorials to keep the vets out. As we all saw, the WWII vets broke through.

We watched a recent WWII movie last night, The Railway Man, based on a true story written by a Brit whose unit was ordered to surrender Singapore and were then tortured and forced to build the Burma railway. Very hard to watch but up-lifting in the end.

[Jim Miller]

DrJ - So what was the tech site, if I may ask?

(I always have mixed feelings about such claims. They are kind of fun to read, even though you know they are silly.)

[narciso]

obviously he can't be the same person, right,

[narciso]

they were showing Casablanca on TCM, early this afternoon,

[narciso]

and of course, this is the iconic scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

in terms of the central conflict in the film,

[DebinNC]

The actor playing "Sam" couldn't play a lick. The camera shows him singing and moving his arms, but never shows his hands.

[Jim Miller]

Tomorrow, it will have been 35 years since the big St. Helens eruption. (I'll probably recycle some of the pictures I've collected over the years. My favorite is still the aerial photo of the Crater Glacier.)

[Neo]

BBC America has up a message that they are watching the "Mad Men" finale on AMC.

[squaredance]

Strachan's book is masterful and well worth reading. It is one of the signal histories of the War. One hopes that he lives long enough to finish the trilogy, but this seem to be unlikely now.

It is a quite serious work with lots of detail, so if one does not have some understanding of WW1 it is easy to get lost in it; on the other hand, if you are up to it, it really is one of the fundamental works on the war and comes up in a great many bibliographies of other writers.

BTW, I do not know if you know the wonderful (and useful) "A Very Short Introduction" series out of Oxford Univ. Press, but they have one that gives a nice short overview of ww1, and the bibliography and "further reading" suggestions are fantastic. These volumes are under 10 bucks, so they are worth getting, and to not be put off by the titles of the series as the writers are quite serious scholars, and in some cases high and leading experts.

(and, of course, Keegan has a wonderful bibliograhy in his notes.)

[Beasts of England]

Nytol

[Eric in Boise]

Tomorrow, it will have been 35 years since the big St. Helens eruption.

I really miss Harry Truman.

[Miss Marple]

Jim Miller,

I was newly married and had quit work as a geologist because I was expecting our daughter when Mt St. Helens was getting ready to erupt.

We were living in Evansville and the women in my bunko club all thought it would be so cool to go out thee and see it.

I told them they were nuts, as if it blew it was going to be massive and kill a lot of people. I was right.

People don't understand the power of something like that.

I have a framed print of Mt. St. Helen's in my laundry room. It's right next to the other potential disaster, vintage prints of Yellowstone.

[Miss Marple]

Nytol!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Guess where the B-24s took off from to bomb Ploesti.

Bennnghazzzzi!

My pop was crew chief on B-17s which didn't have the range to hit Ploesti from North Africa so they got slaughtered elsewhere.

[GUS]

Pagar, I saw him on FOX and he was quite positive that Obama can get things right.
I'm not upset, I just cannot respect people who still don't "get it".
Obama isn't fucking up by accident. He's a Marxist and the destruction to the Nation, the Economy, the moral and scope of our Armed Forces, the divisiveness, by race, gender and status of wealth is all on purpose. General Boykin is probably a very very good soldier.

[narciso]

yikes, that's a long flight,

[narciso]

I wound tend to doubt it, Gus, he's on the Family Research Council, he's warned about the dangers of sharia law, he was probably congratulating his own
unit, whatever they are called now,

[Jim Miller]

Miss Marple - Some of the people who died made the same mistake your bunko club members did.

Incidentally, it could have been even worse, if the blast hadn't come on a Sunday, as loggers would have been caught in the blast, along with sightseers.

I've hiked up it twice since the blast. It's not a difficult climb if you are in reasonable condition, and the weather is sunny and dry, as it usually is here in July and August.

[narciso]

he is certainly someone the regime, would consider an enemy,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--yikes, that's a long flight--

Not only that but IIRC it was a low level bombing run so they were slaughtered when they got there.

I think my pop's outfit hit Ploesti later, probably after they hopped the Mediterranean and were based in Italy. I can remember him reminiscing about how they got shot to pieces over Ploesti themselves.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I remember flying over Mt St Helens about a year after it blew in our KC 135.

Got to lay in the refuelers spot looking straight down through his fairly panoramic bottom window. Amazing light brown/beige scar like an octopus through the velvet green forest.

[narciso]

interesting what the two alternate locations for takeoff were,

http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/1-august-1943/

[narciso]

this one gives a better overview:

http://olive-drab.com/od_history_ww2_stories_ploesti.php

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

I think I mentioned this before but the youngest Hatette did some research in the Mt. St. Helens crater when it was still off limits and boulders rolling around, about the re propagation status. She told me that it was bouncing back quicker than anticipated.

Bytol

[Threadkiller]

Some sort of concert on ABC. A crab boat crew is subbing for Van Halen.

[Threadkiller]

Goodnight.

[narciso]

look who we find hereL

http://davidthompson.typepad.com/davidthompson/2015/05/that-frontier-spirit.html

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

LOL, TK.

[GUS]

Wasn't Ploesi ..Romania, and oil fields.

[Jack is Lightnings!]

That was Soluch Air Field in WW2 now known as Benina International Airport ien Benghazi. At first they wanted to move the B24 squadron to Syria to save fuel but decided to keep it at Souach.

Those Liberators were the planes that decided the war because the air planners saw what damage could be done and began the carpet bombing of German assets.

[Manuel Transmission]

My favorite uncle, who just passed a couple yrs ago was also a crew chief on 17s and later on 29s. He was in Tripoli after the war, but I have no idea where he was during the war.

[narciso]

not a relative, but a fellow alumni of my high school, basically reduced by Woodward to one dimension,

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKbarkerB.htm

[DrJ]

Jim,

DrJ - So what was the tech site, if I may ask?

Comments on slash dot.

[narciso]

recall Susstein's recommendations to defuse opposition, use false flags,

[DrJ]

The Mrs and I watched "The King's Speech" tonight. I had seen it on a plane back or forth to DC, but never in the comfort of my home. Do watch it -- its exaggerations notwithstanding, it is well worth it.

I do find interesting that most of the music is German: Mozart and Beethoven. Given the setting of the movie, that is odd.

But it is hard to dislike one that ends with the second movement of Beethoven's fifth piano concerto, which arguably is the most beautiful piece ever written.

[Stephanie]

Only took me 3 hours to catch up on the threads since Wednesday night. Dang y'all are prolific.

Trip was fun if you discount the amount of estrogen that was flying around.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Wonder if your uncle and my pop ran into each other Manny.
My dad was in the 301st BG which I think was primarily in Algeria, although he started in England in the 8th AF, went to Africa when the 12th was formed and ended in Italy as part of the 15th.

[GUS]

Clarice. As I read your PIECES today (fantastic btw), it seemed as though you were reading my mind. One thing that has really bothered me for years, is that, the Clinton Global Slush fund, has been taking money from JOURN-O-LISTS, and FOREIGN GOVTS for FECKING YEARS. WTF is wrong with this NATION. The mf'ing Secretary of State is recieving mf'ing CASH from JOURN-O-LISTS and FOREIGN GOVTS. She recieved the CASH while running for President and while serving as SEC STATE. I've recognized this for 8 years. And the RIDICULOUSLY THIN RUSE, that the money is going to CHARITY is RETARDED. WTF is wrong with us. When does this pile of CRAP go to PRISON???.
Connecting the DOTS is pathetically easy.
LASTLY, WHY HASN'T ANYONE ASKED ABOUT....................WHAT ELSE WAS ON THE CHAPPAQU SERVER??????

[glasater]

I do volunteer photography for our local Kirkman House a historical site and they are doing a display of what our town was doing during WWII. Its pretty interesting to learn what was going on in ones community in that time.

We had a German prisoner camp in our community that was pretty loosely run as I understand and it was located on our fairgrounds.

I've photographed the remnant poppies that were grown on a field for medicinal purposes during the war and I'm told by an old timer that the field was guarded.

And I know one elderly gentleman who was a B-17 pilot in Europe pretty well who lives here and is still going strong. Mid nineties I think is his age.

[Manuel Transmission]

Iggy,

I'll try to remember to ask one of his boys the next time I see them. Like a lot of the old timers, he may never have talked about it much.

I only remember about Tripoli because he came to visit us in MT when he was home on leave (or maybe about when he mustered out) around '50 or '51 when he gave my mom a lovely wooden case with dates (!) in it and she kept that forever.

The only story he told me many years later was when Lemay flew a flight of 29s non-stop from Tokyo to DC and one of them had engine trouble and landed in Chicago. He had the task of getting it turned quickly. I think this was the first time the jet stream was understood well enough to exploit.

[GUS]

Hey Man Tran, my Grandfather..."Grandad" joined the Scottish Black Watch-British Army at 40. All able bodied men had to fight to save Britain. Grandad was wounded severly at El Alemein in '42. He was imprisoned for nearly 2 years, and had both ankles blown apart by a mortar or machine gun. HE NEVER TALKED ABOUT THE WAR.
One summer, when I was still a kid of 12 or so, my Scottish Grandparents came to visit us in Wisconsin. I had broken my hand, and my Grandad would massage the hand after the cast came off. We were close and it was lovely. I asked Grandad about the WAR. HE BLEW UP and told me how much he hated the Germans........etc. I will never forget. I will never forget. He was a fine man, and he was crippled in a war he didn't ask for.
His Father in law, whom he never met, and whom I am named after was KILLED....ALSO in Egypt, in WWI, 3 weeks before armistice....and buried in Damascus.

[GUS]

George SnuffaluffaGUS is hired by ABC, immmmmmmmmmediately after working as PRESS SECRETARY/FLACK/ADVISOR to IMPEACHED PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON. George SnuffaluffaGUS was famous for being a pit bull and reproaching those who "questioned" Mr Clinton's CHARACTER and lack thereof.
SnuffaluffaGUS was, and is not a professional JOURNALIST. He is HOWEVER, a hack and JOURN-O-LISTA!!! George SnuffaluffaGUS, has been hired, paid and accepted by ABC COMPLETELY SILLY and BIASED NEWS, and paid a FORTUNE. Meanwhile, not only is GEORGE SNUFF......GUS....reporting with EXTREME BIAS, but GEORGIE BOY is PAYING the CLINTON'S, including a SEATED SECRETARY of STATE for ACCESS. And further, Georgie THE HACK, grills people not of his BIAS, as he PAYS THE CLINTONS for access.

Who doesn't understand how FILTHY, WRONG and CORRUPT this behavior is?????????????

[GUS]

Howard Kurtz is a fucking joke.
The MEME that SnuffaluffaTARD had worked to become a journalist is a fucking joke. How stooooopit are these motherfuckers??? Steffalotofshit, is a lying hack. We are allowing bastards like Snuffaluffagus to play us. BUt for the love of JAYYYYSUS, Howard Kurtz is a PROM QUEEN.

[GUS]

ONE MORE COMMENT. In case I haven't made it clear before.....HOWARD KURTZ has an iq of less than 80. Americans, and even FOX NEWS viewers should "get it". If you don't understand STEFALIBTARDUS et al, and if you don't understand that Conservatives are being RAPED....then you are a fucktard moron.
I've lost all faith in the GOP and even those who CLAIM to be CONSERVATIVE.

[Gentlejim]

GUS,
At the risk of seeming obtuse, I'm not quite clear how u feel about Kurtz and the "Top Men" in the GOP. ;)
Serious now. I AGREE WITH YOU.
Back to work.

[GUS]

GentleJim, what confounds me, is how NORMAL, 100 i.q. peeps don't GUFFAW at Howie Kurtz. He's FUCKING TARD!!
This ASS-HAT is paid. He's a fucking CLOWN.

[GUS]

the U.S. ADMITS that "ISIS" has the "ADVANTAGE" in Ramadi.

The OBAMA Admin, is a SHIT STEW of INCOMPETENT and LYING MARXIST HACKS.

I mean these FUCKERS are COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT. They are MARXISTS and LYING LOSER HACKS.

[Gentlejim]

Just heard that ISIS has recovered a cache of weapons left by Iraqis in Ramadi.

[Jane on Ipad]

I'm surprised Obama hasn't given them nukes.

[Miss Marple]

I am pretty sure GUS has gone to bed, but I would like to say I agree 100% with him about Howard Kurtz. His show is so pointless and boring that when it comes on I usually see it as a signal to do something more entetaining, like cleaning the bathrooms.

The number of times he has had a big issue staring him right in the face and he ignored it are too numerous to measure.

[Miss Marple]

By the way, here is the second part of Fernandez. The solution is not what you were thinking, I bet.

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/17/fighting-entropy-part-2/

[Miss Marple]

I put together two ideas I picked up with reading articles here, so tell me what you think of it.

1. Assume there is a violence gene which has never been eradicated in the Middle East.

2. Assume we have to be more adaptable and quicker on our feet to fight ISIS.

I would empower the military to form hundreds of lightning strike forces, similar to that which struck ISIS and killed the "oil minister." They would be kept together as a cohesive unit.

Further, I would recruit people who even had prison records, such as gang members, providing we could figure out if they could operate as teams.

Leaders of such groups would be officers who had shown unusual aptitude for cobbling together solutions.

Allow these teams to strike at will i ISIS country. Sometimes they would arrive in helicopters, sometimes they would come overland. Sometimes they would appear as everyday Iraqis until the last minute. They would strike, kill as many as possible, then disappear. These attacks would be numerous, constant, and unpredicatable.

Objectives:

Disrupt any attacks they were planning.
Make them prey instead of predators.
Kill as many as possible.

[maryrosee]

MM
I like how you think
What you are describing is guerrilla warfare
Very effective in the Vietnam War

[Miss Marple]

UK Energy Minister announces law against wind farms

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=c920274f2a364603849bbb505&id=4bf62549e5&e=96bb006873

[Miss Marple]

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/05/17/paris-in-latest-violent-antisemitic-attack-two-assailants-pin-down-victim-while-another-beats-him/

[Miss Marple]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/liz-cheney-has-a-follow-up-iraq-question-for-obama-and-hillary/

The question to Obama and Hillary is:

"Knowing what we now know, would you still have abandoned Iraq?"

[Miss Marple]

http://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2015/05/18/lets-celebrate-the-death-of-the-mainstream-media-n1999522

This really has no new information, but it is still satisfying to read, and Schlichter is very good at crafting insults.

[James D.]

re Jeff/hit's comment on the prior thread about his "get off my lawn" tendencies.

You're not the only one! I've been a Get Off My Lawn guy pretty much my whole life (even thoguh I don't actually have my own lawn for anyone to get off of).

[Rick Ballard]

"Assume there is a violence gene which has never been eradicated in the Middle East."

Wrong side of the coin. Assume, rather, a docile and servile population with a less than average IQ. That's the necessary condition for "success" on the part of predators seeking plunder and dominance through force. The Romans had few problems in England, they had to wall off Scotland.

Shia fleeing from Sunni isn't news any more than Persians using Shia cannon fodder would be news. The news will occur when Persian and Saudi Sunni run through all their Shia cannon fodder.

[narciso]

the original Bourne series, not the movies, had an international fictional international outfit of smuggglers, criminals spies, who were fighting the Vietnam war, for profit, with some military support, the hero was someone who had taken the identity of one of these ruffians,

Carlos Slim's was one of the signatory to this clubhouse, so his paper is not really going to investigate seriously,

[narciso]

Well Emperor Claudius might take issue with that pesky Eceni problem. that bedeviled him for a time,
but one looks at how diligently the Sauds have been in Aden, as opposed to points north where the real threat lies,

the last proxy fight between Nasser's men in Yemen,
and the Ilkwan's irregulars claimed 60,000 men,

[James D.]

Is anyone else experiencing internet problems this morning? Some sites (like this one) are slow, but working. And some (like the company that hosts my website and email) are totally unreachable.

[narciso]

no, I had a brief 404 moment, last night, but other than that,

http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2015/05/16/ted-cruz-the-only-republican-arrogant-enough-to-be-president/

Goldman is sometimes a little too provocative, no we didn't intend it to be Switzerland, I think the fact that Chalabi has been kept out to this very day, in the christmas tree cabinet, yet there is a whole host of Iranian proxies who have occupied baghdad for the last 10 years,

[narciso]

the problem, 'miss marple, is that Bradbury's 'firemen' are in charge, running the 'shells' as civilization burns,

[new lurker]

If I were a mother of someone who had been killed in Ramadi, I would be incensed. I have no family member who was killed there, and I am still incensed.

[Cecil Turner]

Bonus points for JOMers for identifying the name of the ace with 38 kills at the 2:20 mark :)

I must be watching the wrong clip. All I saw at 2:20 was the host (Jeff Ethell) doing a preflight.

[narciso]

actually it was at 2-10, my hunch about the events re Benghazi, were born out by Herridge's report of DIA cables,

[Rick Ballard]

Narciso,

It makes sense to tune up the Saudi army in Yemen before heading north. Salman really doesn't need a festering boil to the south if he does have to engage Persians seriously. I won't be surprised if the Sunni green light Sisi for a serious move in Libya as well. The possibility that Red Witch will succeed BOzo's Behind and continue his idiocy has to weigh as heavily as the OPM Famine on Salman.

[Eric in Boise]

Mornin, all.

He mentions an ace named Tom Maguire, Cecil. I watched again and it's actually at 2:18, so I was off a bit.

[narciso]

in retrospect, it would have been better for the Mutawakkites to hold Asir and the adjoining province, the Sauds have had a loose stopper, since they come from Mejd anyways.they really can't hope to contain the Ikwan,

[narciso]

that was back in their confrontation in the 20s,
the Ilkwan also moved north toward Najaf and Karbala, after the Brits left,

[Threadkiller]

Asked why he suspended without pay John Jastremski and Jim McNally, despite the vigorous defense of their actions and intents in the team’s near-20,000-word rebuttal (The Wells Retort), Kraft refused to comment “for what he claimed were a variety of reasons.”

Oh.