The Science Gets Unsettled-er

We live in a world of experts who study for years to become experts so that as experts they can expertly tell us what we need to know.

Until they're wrong.  Let's go across the pond for this story from the UK's Daily Mail:

For decades they have been blacklisted as foods to avoid, the cause of deadly thickening of the arteries, heart disease and strokes.

But the science which warned us off eating eggs – along with other high-cholesterol foods such as butter, shellfish, bacon and liver – could have been flawed, a key report in the US has found.

Foods high in cholesterol have been branded a danger to human health since the 1970s – a warning that has long divided the medical establishment.

A growing number of experts have been arguing there is no link between high cholesterol in food and dangerous levels of the fatty substance in the blood.

I admit, I have a rooting interest in this new direction because no matter how many experts tell me to do otherwise, no one is going to convince me to give up eggs, butter, shellfish or bacon.  Liver is negotiable.

Now, in a move signalling a dramatic change of stance on the issue, the US government is to accept advice to drop cholesterol from its list of 'nutrients of concern'.

The US Department of Agriculture panel, which has been given the task of overhauling the guidelines every five years, has indicated it will bow to new research undermining the role dietary cholesterol plays in people's heart health.

Its Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee plans to no longer warn people to avoid eggs, shellfish and other cholesterol-laden foods.

And in the category of "the Minuteman gets results" - what is the new direction for the "nutrients of concern"?

Doctors are now shifting away from warnings about cholesterol and saturated fat and focusing concern on sugar as the biggest dietary threat.

Do tell.

Turning back to the idea that science is never as truly settled as many experts would like to claim, and that experts are not omniscient, let's take a quick peak at some other offerings in the health section from the Daily Mail:

 

Look, undoubtedly some of this is really good advice. I wouldn't dismiss any of it out of hand, nor would I encourage anyone to dismiss what health experts advise out of hand either. It is the unwavering assuredness of some of the advice - not just in the above, but generally as well - that tends to bristle. At times there is little to separate what "a study has found" and "one weird trick!".

There are people who spend a lot more time trying to understand how diets impact their lives than I do, including reading up on the latest studies and news.  I hope that their efforts result not only in healthier living, but a better peace of mind in trying to live healthy. I praise them. I should probably be at least a little more like them.

But I also know that had I accepted the consensus of what experts said for decades on cholesterol I would have missed out on a lot of bacon and butter - and as it turns out, perhaps for no real health advantage.

 

Link to Last Page of Thread.

Comments

[Peter]

I think that Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said it best:Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Gee, the government keeps telling us to do the wrong thing.

I wonder if it crossed anyone's mind to just stop telling us what to do altogether rather than tell us the new wrong thing?

[Cecil Turner]

New guidelines? What's wrong with the old guidelines?

[henry]

CT, they lack that "fresh guideline" smell.

[MarkO]

Have I mentioned how much I love expert witnesses?

[Ben]

Diet tweaks a little but the over-arching assist to demise is the DNA bullet. It doesn't matter what you do, a bullet is waiting with your name on it. "It is written".

[Porchlight]

Caveat emptor. If people are going to be idiotically obsessed with what experts are saying and not use their own common sense, well, isn't it kind of like everything else in life when one does that?

[henry]

Porch, the greater risk is the "boy who cried wolf!" effect if the experts ever get something right.

[Extraneus]

My grandfather ate whatever he wanted to and lived healthy until age 87.

Warren Buffett:

“I checked the actuarial tables, and the lowest death rate is among six-year-olds. So I decided to eat like a six-year-old.” The octogenarian adds, “It’s the safest course I can take.”

[Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

Does the First Lady know about this?

[Miss Marple]

Discussion with my siblings the other night. Two were complaining about short-term memry problems (remembering names, terms for certain actions, etc.) and I had not complained about this at all.

I am the only one who does NOT take medicine to reduce my cholesterol, which apparently is now shown to be reducing fat in your brain as well, impairing function.

[Porchlight]

Porch, the greater risk is the "boy who cried wolf!" effect if the experts ever get something right.

That is a risk and we see it especially in areas like vaccinations.

But at least as regards nutrition, possibly the most tedious of the preferred modern topics of conversation, I argue that because they have been shown to get it wrong all the time, we can have no confidence at all that anything they say can be correct.

So it's actually better for us that they are frequently shown to be wrong, because that gives us a more accurate idea of their abilities.

[henry]

Archaeologists discover ancient humans that listened to their experts, meanwhile Lucy & co kept pulling the football away from them. Result, we are descended from Lucy.

[Marlene]

My father had his first heart attack at the age of 57 and died at the age of 83. He had several heart procedures in the following 25 years,but never changed his diet. Eggs,bacon,meat and potatoes. He also smoked until he had his heart attack. Family history played a role in his heart disease. I'm on a statin because I'm nervous about the family history. MM @1:02,I've also read that statins elevate blood sugar.

[rse]

My maternal grandmother just loved that salt shaker. Made it to 95. She was the one who had known Ty Cobb because his dad and her dad were best friends. When Ty Cobb's mom shot his dad, a salesman, after claiming she thought it was a burglar as he was out of town, my grandfather had a heart attack within the week, supposedly due to the stress and horror.

Small towns.

[Porchlight]

Wow, rse. That is some story.

[Jack is Back]

I sure hope they take the World Cup away from Russia and Qatar as a result of the fraud and bribery charges. Tiime for Sepp to meet his jailer. When Qatar got the World Cup the alarm bells were so loud in the UK you knew this was inevitable. Russia had much the same reaction to the football nations.

[maryrosee]

MM I do not take any medicine at all

[caro]

Coincidentally, a book about Ty Cobb.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/books/review/ty-cobb-a-terrible-beauty-by-charles-leerhsen.html

[jimmyk]

possibly the most tedious of the preferred modern topics of conversation,

Surely not more tedious than deflategate. :)

I confess an interest in the topic because of a genetic tendency toward type 2 diabetes (2 of my 3 sibs have been diagnosed with it, my father has it, his mother had it). So I've gravitated toward paleo/low-carb high fat/protein diets, without going crazy about it or annoying people by talking about it.

Another case where science seems to have changed is on fasting vs. snacking. There's even a new fad called intermittent fasting. There is evidence (small sample warning) of health (cognitive) benefits. The linked piece has the innocuous recommendation of a 12 hour fast between evening and morning, and waiting 3 hours between eating at night and going to sleep. Not to hard, though harder than it sounds. I've been following this religiously and am no smarter but a little thinner. But remember how we were all told that breakfast is the most important meal of the day? I now frequently skip breakfast (except for black coffee, without which I'd be a wreck).

[jimmyk]

As evidence of being no smarter, that should have read "not too hard."

[maryrosee]

Jimmyk that's my breakfast too
How's the trip going for your daughter
I hope she's having a great time
It sounds like RSE s daughter is really enjoying herself

[maryrosee]

Caro
How is your visit with Jane going

[jimmyk]

Thanks, maryrose, she's back already, had a great time--not much sleep, but criss-crossed the country (not that Israel's a large country). What's nice is that they didn't just tour, but they brought gifts for soldiers, spend some time putting together food packages for the poor, etc.

[DrJ]

The linked piece has the innocuous recommendation of a 12 hour fast between evening and morning, and waiting 3 hours between eating at night and going to sleep.

Geez, you mean that I actually do something that is good for me? That's a first! :)

My "breakfast" consists of multiple cups of black coffee. And cigs, but that's not the healthy part.

[Jeff Dobbs]

When Bad passed away, her husband emailed several places one could donate in her memory. Once of those was the Legacy High School Band Booster club.

This showed up on facebook today...

So, the Legacy Band Boosters have finally decided what to do with the $ Sue left them. An ice machine is being purchased (along with a little extra $ from the boosters) that will provide the Band with ice right there next next to the Band Hall. The Sue Donovan Memorial Ice Machine will be dedicated with a plaque this fall. We'll post the details here and take pictures.

Her husband and daughter replied...

Perfect! There was nothing she liked better (not) than having to borrow the key from the athletic department to use their machine.
1 hr · Like

I couldn't help but giggle a little bit when reading "Sue Donovan Memorial Ice Machine." Practical and hilarious. She really would love it!
40 mins · Like

[caro]

MR, visiting Jane is almost like coming home. But it was brief as Jane was busy getting ready for the big weekend yard sale. And then she was driving off to Florida. She should be there by now, I think. I am now on Cape Cod, just around the corner from boatbuilder's brother's store. (Will he ever show up here?)

[Jeff Dobbs]

jimmyk:
I now frequently skip breakfast (except for black coffee, without which I'd be a wreck).

DrJ:
My "breakfast" consists of multiple cups of black coffee.

NO MORE THAN FOUR YOU GUYS!!! IT SAYS SO RIGHT UP THERE IN THE POST!!!!

[henry]

That 4 cup max (cup size not indicated) is directed at pregnant women (2 cups) and youth (no age limits specified) in a classic women and children hardest hit slight of hand by the authors to keep the chugging benefits to themselves.

btw, Jeff you are a youth in this scenario, the rest of us not so much.

[Porchlight]

Surely not more tedious than deflategate. :)

;)

That is interesting that you bring up intermittent fasting - a fellow at my church mentioned it to me the other day. After we finished talking about Deflategate. :) Anyway, he's lost quite a bit of weight in the last year, and says it's the only thing that's worked for him.

I think I could do it the way he is doing it - eating only between noon and 3 (or maybe it was noon and 5). But then I wouldn't be able to have dinner with my family.

And now I denounce myself for talking about dieting. ;)

[Porchlight]

The Sue Donovan Memorial Ice Machine. So great! And new students will always ask questions about it, so that will keep her memory fresh (and cool!). I hope her photo is mounted somewhere near it. What a sweet idea.

[DrJ]

NO MORE THAN FOUR YOU GUYS!!! IT SAYS SO RIGHT UP THERE IN THE POST!!!!

Maybe for a 100 lb. woman. I, uh, weight a bit more than that.

[Some Guy]

Stupid question alert...

Does the US have jurisdiction on the FIFA matter?

[Miss Marple]

Some Guy,

Yes, because they have offices or some sort of outpost in Florida.

[Miss Marple]

Regarding fasting:

My brother-in-law, ex Marine, has kept trim all his life and he's almost 80. He has, for years, eaten only one meal per day, usually between 6 and 8 PM.

In that meal he eats whatever he wants, and often it's 2 steaks or multiple bowls of chili or whatever.

Along time ago I was on a diet in which you ate very low carb except for the dinner hour, in which you could eat whatever you wanted within that hour.

I went off it after losing about 15 pounds because it was too hard for me to give up orange juice in the morning. Diet orange soda just wasn't the same.

[daddy]

In the category of I'll have what he's having:

Perhaps we ought to emulate the diet of our ancestors.

A 2-million-year-old human tissue was found in a cave in South Africa, in-between a mummified man’s teeth

Want some more, Lucy?

No thanks. I've eaten as much of her as I can take.

It's fun to be On Topic!

[Jack is Back]

Some Guy,

Of course they do since the thieves have used our banks to squirrel away their bounty plus it appears to go back to the 90's including when we hosted the World Ciup. Also, the bribes may have come from American sports marketing firms. Bet some of them are American.

[Jack is Back]

As a praticing and devout Roman Catholic, Rick Santorum makes my skin crawl. He is a snake oil salesman and doesn't represent any conservative catholic convictions I am aware of these days. But he is one creepy guy.

[daddy]

4 Cups of Coffee a day only

Bah, humbug@#$ "Surely that is the best worst of all possible worlds."

Voltaire, author of Candide consumed somewhere between 40 and 50 cups of joe a day

I think the more important question is "How many times a day did he have to go to the toilette?"

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

No story today can possibly be as rich as Tin Lizzie Warren ripping off grandmas by buying their houses dirt cheap and flipping them for "obscene" profits.

Guess the old battle tomahawk figured we needed a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to protect us from rapacious profiteers like her.

[daddy]

Rick Santorum makes my skin crawl.

Well JiB,

I wouldn't vote for him, but if I had intended to, this would make me reconsider: Rick Santorum’s First Campaign Interview Will Be… George Stephanopoulos

Moron.

[Miss Marple]

Jack,

My sentiments exactly.

He was down in the South back in 2012 and went to some Baptist worship service on Sunday morning. I could find NO record of him going to mass.

Plus, why does she home-school all of those kids? Don't they have a good Catholic school near them? I would think they do. Seems decidedly odd to me.

[Porchlight]

Lots of Catholics homeschool, MM. The Catholic schools in our diocese are just as liberal as the public schools and the teaching quality isn't much higher, either - or that's the problem as my Catholic homeschooling friends see it, at any rate.

[Miss Marple]

Porchlight,

I know that some homeschool; around here it's mostly due to cost, although if I were at a north side parish I know about, your excuse would make sense.

He's in Pennsylvania and I would like to know what diocese. It would make sense if it is as you say, although I am not convinced.

[Jack is Back]

daddy,

They deserver each other.

Porch,

Same here with some of our teachers. I have been darn close to home schooling Frederick. In fact, we have a Catholic teacher who home schools kids including religion. She has about 6 right now.

BTW, a lot of people think Home Schooling is at home when in fact most is at satelliite community places like this ladies home.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Maybe she likes homeschooling her kids.
That's odd?

[maryrosee]

I like the Santorums
There is no artifice or pretense there
They care deeply for their family and their daughter Bella

Their son just left for Boot Camp. Bella has special needs
His mom is still alive at 96.
He is a real American I admire him
He won't win but he belongs in the debate

[Jack is Back]

Just an example (or two):

He has a science teacher who is a West Point grad that is so lazy he shows Bill Nye videos to explain science. I get livid and have to take Frederick through the science and explain it in classical terms instead of Bill Nye's corrupted left wing viewpoint. He is not even a scientist. He is a mechanical engineer without an advanced degree but he does have eyeglasses and bow tie so he looks scientific. God!

Then he has very nice teacher in social studies (History) who is a transplanted Rhode Islander with the same sympathies of a Lincoln Chaffee who teaches Greek and Roman history as if we need to excuse their philosphy of democracy and classical thinking. You have no idea how much I have to fight her curriculum and bring Frederick back to reality.

They are everywhere and every parent needs to be vigillant and question their kids every day on what they are hearing, learning and incorporating into their thinking. You only get one chance to corret their understandings. Its like terrorism. They only have to get lucky once but we have to catch everything.

[Jack is Back]

maryrose,

Love you. But why does he think he has any chance? If he scrapes up more than a few million dollars he should give it to St. Gertrude's House or some other anti-abortion facility. He has zero chance. He won't even make into the debates.

[Threadkiller]

Maybe Stephanopoulos will ask Santorum about his eligibility issue.

[maryrosee]

He's on Fox right now
He's against Common Core

[narciso]

Foster Fries will spot him for a while, not as long as last time, what is the point of going on Snufflelafagus,

[Threadkiller]

This is shaping up to be a retread of the last pansy-style GOPe field.

I'm voting for Rand.

[Jack is Back]

I am voting for Rubio jsut to get a TK special edition thrread.

[narciso]

I was leaning toward Cruz, but I might have to give Rubio consideration after his dodge on Iraq,

http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2015/05/27/jeb-bushs-hot-tub-time-machine/

[Miss Marple]

Well, as I said, my primary doesn't come until May, so my vote doesn't count. I don't have money to donate, either, so all I can do is advocate for those I like on Twitter.

Right now I like Walker and Fiorina and want them in the debates. I am also partial to Rick Perry if he decides to run.

I distinctly remember some stuff Santorum pulled in the last election, so I don't like him. However, everyone has to decide for themselves on candidates and there will be a lot of reasons for who people support or don't support.

[maryrosee]

I personally like Walker Carly Fiorina and I think Cruz and Rubio make good arguments
Give Jeb a cabinet post where he can't get into trouble
Give Santorum Dept of Education to make the progs froth at the mouth
Rand Paul should dismantle the Fed and then be in charge of the Intelligence gathering

[narciso]

this has been much of my reservations about him,

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/05/27/rand-paul-lets-face-it-republican-hawks-created-isis/

[maryrosee]

Newt Gingrich and Huckle berry were the worst in the last election
Iowa muffed up Santorums win thus hobbling his initial run out of the gate
Is it any wonder their straw polls are going the way of the dinosaurs

[henry]

Santorum, Huckabee, Trump are all causes of skin crawl. Jeb and Kasich are past their sell by dates. Nice scrum elsewhere with Fiorina taking point against Hillary.

Right now I prefer Walker twist some arms locally on the prevailing wage law (too many Tommy Thompson crony types whispering in too many ears slowing down what should be an easy reform).

[narciso]

well huck wasn't in the last election, however his team, was running bachmann and then santorum's campaign,

[maryrosee]

Santorum won 11states last time 4 million people voted for him
His ideas are truly conservative

[maryrosee]

I also like Christie

Ducking
I renounce and denounce myself

[Jack is Back]

maryrose,

He is a failed candidate and stil makes me reserved to his efficacy. Just don't like him. Something I can't put a finger on but its there.

[maryrosee]

Narciso
He screwed Romney in 2004 and we were stuck with McCain

[Miss Marple]

Santorum hung on long after he should have withdrawn in 2012. So I put him in the same category as Huckabee, who did that in 2008.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I'd sure as hell rather be choosing from the field that includes Santorum and Huckabee than the one that includes Lady Macbeth, the chief Weird Sister and a half witted Banquo's ghost striding out of the smoking Baltimore slums sans his shirt.

[Miss Marple]

Very true, Ignatz. Very true.

[Jack is Back]

And you'll get your chance, Iggy. Hell, you'll even get the chance to vote for Fat Guy and Hair Main.

[Jack is Back]

Is James Comey taller than BOR or David Gregory but he does make the AG look like a midget.

[maryrosee]

Should have been 2008
Best presidential election moment
Ohio goes for Bush on election night 2004
Thank God for the Amish voting in Holmes County
They had to bring more ballots to the polling places

[maryrosee]

It's settled
Give the Huckster and Santorum cabinet posts and let the games begin

[Peter]

I listened to Santorum's announcement and he sort of grew on me.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I want the chance NOT to vote for the incoherent Christie.

[narciso]

that is inspired shorthand, Iggie, bravo.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

That is a true compliment coming from the king* of shorthand, narc. : )

*Co-regent with Cap'n Hate.

[Porchlight]

We need a Sanders nickname.

[narciso]

'not the Colonel' he's a tough one to summarize,
how has it been down there,

[Jeff Dobbs]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, anyway about FAKE diet studies.

http://io9.com/i-fooled-millions-into-thinking-chocolate-helps-weight-1707251800

(via ace sidebar)

[Bill Peschel]

To bring it back on topic a bit, the editor of The Lancet recently admitted that "much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue."

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/05/behind-science-fraud-chapter-4.php