Tell Us What You Really Think

The Times looks at the government database hacking debacle and includes this gem:

In congressional testimony and in interviews, officials investigating the breach at the personnel office have struggled to explain why the defenses were so poor for so long. Last week, the office’s director, Katherine Archuleta, stumbled through a two-hour congressional hearing. She was unable to say why the agency did not follow through on inspector general reports, dating back to 2010, that found severe security lapses and recommended shutting down systems with security clearance data.

When she failed to explain why much of the information in the system was not encrypted — something that is standard today on iPhones, for example — Representative Stephen F. Lynch, a Massachusetts Democrat who usually supports Mr. Obama’s initiatives, snapped at her. “I wish that you were as strenuous and hardworking at keeping information out of the hands of hackers,” he said, “as you are keeping information out of the hands of Congress and federal employees.”

Maybe the House committee on government oversight should reach out to the Chinese and see if they can give us the Lois Lerner emails.

Comments

[henry]

TM, I'm sure the Chinese have an outsourcer with ROOT access to every fed computer in existence, along with every crony firm's systems.

[matt]

Doesn't it strike you as odd that once again, the President is off playing golf while Mom and the kids are off in Europe?

[peter]

No it does strike me as odd.

[Jane on Ipad]

We hired the Chinese and gave them the access - right?

[Jack The X4MER]

TM is en fuego today. 3 threads. So many choices, so little time.

Waiting for Frederick and his buddy to arrive at our hotel in Boston then off to the North End for Pizza!

[Soylent Red]

No it does strike me as odd.

Not odd at all, if you assume "playing golf" to mean "felating Reggie and chaining Kools."

Not odd at all.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

I'd rather be dead in a ditch than take a vacation with either one of them so mark me down for the 'not odd at all' queue.

[anonamom]

My kids think Reginas is best JiB

[daddy]

From a local article today on our Alaskan Wildfires, I found this bit about Lightning Strikes interesting:

officials reported Saturday that more than 80 new fires had ignited in Alaska over two days, a mix of lightning- and human-caused blazes. In Alaska's eastern Interior, one lightning-sparked fire had reached 30,000 acres.

On Saturday alone, there were 6,500 recorded lightning strikes in the state, said Tim Mowry, spokesman for the Alaska Division of Forestry.

“It’s been a big lightning day,” Mowry said. There were 4,500 strikes on Friday...

How do they know how many Lightening Strikes there are on a given day in the Alaskan Wilderness? An Alaska Info page says June thunderstorms cause as many as 3,000 lightning strikes per day in Alaska's interior. So how come it was more than twice that number yesterday?

National Geographic says Cloud-to-ground lightning bolts are a common phenomenon—about 100 strike Earth's surface every single second

But Wiki says that 100 strikes a second number is bogus, and that a 1997 NASA Study revises the number to 44 per second (plus or minus 5).

Wiki also tells us Florida gets the most Lightning Strikes in the US, the West Coast the least.

Anyhow, here's a supposedly constantly updating map of Alaskan Lightning Strikes, which I have not yet been able to make sense of, but thought I'd link to it if anyone is interested.

[Rocco]

Mmm...Regina Pizzeria

[henry]

Jane, we hired someone offshore that had Chinese employees, but never vetted who these employees were.

[Jack The Trans-Former]

daddy,

My part of Florida leads the state in strikes. We are the eastern end of the big summer cell movements every afternoon like clockwork and like clock work you can count on lightning strikes. Out at sea they provide our version of your Aurora Borealis. My neighbor's house has been struck twice in the last 5 years. He now has it totally "wrapped" with lightning arresters.

ananomom, they aren't hungry since they ate on the ferry.

I would love to talk to the guy at Fox Sports who thought having Tom Weiskopf on as the "architecture" commentator was a good idea. His courses are the opposite approach of those by the Jones family. Why not have RTJ, Jr. to do that commentary? Makes little sense to me. Pete Dye probably too old but Tom Fazio or even Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore have more in common with their designs for Chambers Bay.

[Jack The Trans-Former]

Thanks, Rocco. Right down from us. We're at Battery Wharf next to the Coastie Station.

Lovin' Bean Town:)

[Jack The Trans-Former]

Surprise, surprise.

3 Dead as Man Drives SUV into Crowds in Graz, Austria, before "stabbing bystanders". Oh, BTW, did I mention he is a Bosnian Muzzie?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3132535/Man-runs-car-crowd-killing-2-injuring-Austria.html

[Captain Hate]

THe Restraining Order on giving fast track to 404:

Dear Captain,

The House just voted to fast-track the largest international trade deal in history -- a move that would leave American workers in the lurch. But there’s still time to make a difference.

So far 67,000 supporters like you have signed on to protect American workers. Before the Senate takes up the vote, add your voice to ours and help us reach 70,000 signatures.

Sign on and demand Congress to say “no” to fast track.

Remember what happened when Congress rushed through NAFTA? One study found it displaced nearly 700,000 American jobs -- most of which came from the manufacturing sector.

We already know what happens when we get free trade agreements wrong: big corporations win, while working families take the hit. And if the House gets its way, American workers could be left in the dust again without a safety net.

Sign our petition today and tell Congress we don’t need another NAFTA.

Thank you,

Sherrod

[Jane]

If he mentioned Obamacare, I'd be more inclined to listen.

[matt]

NAFTA - Keeping Mexicans in Mexico. One side effect. It has raised Mexico's middle class tremendously. It has also fueled the auto industry and Mexican demand for U.S. goods. It's not all bad.

Now China on the other hand has been undermining us with every tool in the toolbox. Our dear leaders don't want us to wake up and find out that the Chinese have achieved world domination in the next 20 years.

And even when we know who has stolen our secrets and IP we still don't act.

[anonamom]

The Pope's bubble

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/19/how-thick-is-pope-franciss-bubble/

JiB, the day's young--they'll be hungry in a couple of hours.
Mike's Pastry afterwards. My oldest's claim to fame is that he ate a "lobster" there, but probably not after pizza.
One cannoli ought to do it. Don't let a line deter you--it moves fast.

[DrJ]

Surprise, surprise, surprise! (WSJ)

MIT Economist Had Bigger Role in Health Law, Emails Show

Jonathan Gruber, whose comments about the Affordable Care Act touched off a political furor, worked more closely than previously known with the White House to shape the law.

The emails provided by the House Oversight Committee to The Wall Street Journal cover messages Mr. Gruber sent from January 2009 through March 2010. Committee staffers said they worked with MIT to obtain the 20,000 pages of emails.

They depict frequent consultations between Mr. Gruber and top Obama administration staffers and advisers in the White House and the Department of Health and Human Services on the Affordable Care Act. They show he informed HHS about interviews with reporters and discussions with lawmakers, and that he consulted with HHS about how to publicly describe his role.

[daddy]

On the topic of Donald Trumps candidacy, it came up at the close of Kudlow's Show yesterday, with his regular "Money & Politics" panel of Steve Moore, Jimmy Pethokukis, and John McKintyre (editor of Real Clear Politics).

It was probably my expectation bias showing, but I got the sense that Larry Kudlow was expecting his guests to seriously dump on or dismiss Trump, but what I found instead was that even tho' all 3 plus Kudlow took various shots at Trump, none dismissed Trump, and in fact all of them praised his business skills by the end of the topic. There was a bit of dealing with the topic by proclaiming ignorance of Trump's specifics.

For instance:

Kudlow: JimmyP, Donald Trump...(laughing) What do you make of Mister Trump? Give me your honest, candid opinion, after all these years?

JimmyP: ...I'm not sure what to say about Donald Trump...

Kudlow: Steve Moore, is Donald Trump a Supply-sider, is he a Pro-Growth guy?

Steve Moore: Well who knows? I mean...I don't know what he stands for economically. He's all over the map. I don't think he has any kind of Philosophy, it's all about him.

Kudlow: You just wrote a column on the Battle of Tax rates in this election. What I want to ask you is which side is Donald Trump on?...

Steve Moore: I honestly don't have a clue...I think he is a complete blank skate. In the weeks and months ahead we're going to have to find out what he stands for but right now it's impossible to say. He doesn't have an underlying philosophy as far as I can see.

It was a lot of those sort of comments, with various asides that he is a good businessman, a heck of a self promoter, and somebody who is speaking to a large segment of the Republican Base that is fed up with politics as usual. I had expected that the Panel would have savaged him, so even tho' they all got in some criticisms and none were great fans, none of them dismissed Trump. I thought that worth mentioning.

[pagar]

The fact that the person in charge when the latest leak was discovered, is still in charge is a national disgrace. The information in the WSJ that DrJ posted at 4:32 gives anyone all the reasons they need to not trust a single word that anyone in the Obama Admin says about anything. IMO every American will live to regret the fact that Pres Obama was given fast track authority on anything.

[glasater]

Richard Clarke--I know--was on Fareed's show this AM saying the Chinese hack of OPM is worse than Snowden's perfidy.

[daddy]

MM,

Thanks for posting your Dad's pictures from WW2. Terrific!

[narciso]

welp that's that:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/shock-video-yemeni-peace-talks-break-out-into-fistfight/

[henry]

glasater, what part of "noforn" got passed the contracting officer to allow any offshore firm (let alone the Chinese) get ROOT access to that (or any) system. ROOT is not just the keys to everything, having ROOT for over a year lets that "clearance" be piggybacked onto any other govt system. Snowden got a lot. The Chinese not only got it all, but we have no way of knowing how many back doors they installed elsewhere to ensure the continue getting everything. Yes, ROOT authority lets you do that, it's what it is for.

[narciso]

this is what occurred to me, although I imagine Snowden showed them the back door,

[narciso]

she forgets reconstruction was a good thing, as well as the point,

http://twitchy.com/2015/06/21/the-nation-editor-argues-that-voter-id-requirements-are-extension-of-the-civil-war-reconstruction/

[Jack The Trans-Former]

henry,

Of course, we could have set this all up as a way of us getting into the ChiCom's heart and soul of their IT. But only if Brad Thor or Tom Clancy was writing the story and they aren't.

Is there anything our Federal government can't screw up? Nope.

[henry]

JiB, if we had 3 dimensional chess players in charge sure. We have a clutz that cheats at horse instead. (Well, that and ValJar).

[Jane]

When was the hiring done? Under who?

[daddy]

On my Lightning strike state map above, it lists things like the following for a particular location:

Date/Time: 2015/06/21 12:42
StrokeType: GROUND_STROKE
Latitude: 62.0609967
Longitude: -147.5535231
Amperes: -55200
Precision: 1
--------------------------
Date/Time: 2015/06/21 12:44
StrokeType: GROUND_STROKE
Latitude: 62.0461592
Longitude: -147.5384794
Amperes: -38500
Precision: 1
-------------------------
Date/Time: 2015/06/21 12:20
StrokeType: GROUND_STROKE
Latitude: 62.1130872
Longitude: -147.4084799
Amperes: -31400
Precision: 1
-----------------------

All of that seems understandable at first glance to me, except the Amperes readings. I guess it's a measure of the power of the bolt.

This site tells us some fascinating stuff, including this on Ampere's:

An average lightning strike discharges about 30,000 amperes (20,000 amperes in the UK). The current in a lightning strike typically ranges from 5,000 to 50,000 amperes depending on the strength of storm. NASA has recorded strikes of 100,000 amperes and there are other reports of strikes over 200,000 amperes.

I don't have a working feel of how much power that say a 31,400 Ampere bolt actually is.

DrJ or anyone, do you have a way to explain the equivalent of 31,400 Ampere's in understandable terms, by relating it to something that I can get my head around in everyday experience.

BTW, Off to pay more Library fines. Forgot to return some checked out books prior to heading to the Jane JOM shindig last week, and the Library just left the recorded message.

My computer account says my total fines accumulated and paid since 1996 is $272.10, and my new delinquency will add to that. Would $272.10 be the Library fine equivalent of 31,400 Ampere's?

[narciso]

yikes, daddy, that's quite a bill, that includes lost books?

[henry]

Jane, not sure who. OPM is not telling. Per this article ROOT was given out multiple times over the past 3 years. At this point, responsibility avoidance is job one. Business as usual under Obama.

[DrJ]

All of that seems understandable at first glance to me, except the Amperes readings. I guess it's a measure of the power of the bolt.

Amperes (or amps) is a measure of current, not power.

do you have a way to explain the equivalent of 31,400 Ampere's in understandable terms, by relating it to something that I can get my head around in everyday experience.

A typical household line is 120V, 15 amps. So the lightening bolt delivered about 2,000 times the current that your usual household circuit does.

That's a lot of current.

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

Closing in on the last two tee times. I notice Speith working on his driver, still. He should be putting but its the driver that has given him problems.

[narciso]

so the driver in Graz, just concerned about child custody or some such, nothing to see here,

[Miss Marple]

Drawing on the last thread, I have come to the conclusion that the worst thing about the Pope's encyclical is that it is a profoundly pessimistic view of our future and reveals him as someone with a mediocre mind.

I was a Benedict convert. I am still a fan of his teaching, and it will just sort of tune out anything from this pope that is not related to faith and morals.

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

daddy,

!00K amps are equivalent to 30K volts but not harvestable for power. Short duration. Wear rubber boots and don't stand in the water or hole a 2 iron over your head.

[DrJ]

!00K amps are equivalent to 30K volts

You can't convert those without knowing the load. You are assuming 0.3 ohms.

[narciso]

sorry domestic violence, wasn't that fellow down in Sydney the same way,

yes, miss marple 'the climate is a common good' is just part of a truly distorted world view,

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

DrJ,

I am assming that the lightning strikes we are discussing are negative not postive since they go to ground and not to objects like Airplanes or buildings. Therefore lower resistance. SWAG on my part but if you have time to do the calcs, I'd like to see what you come up with.

[narciso]

can he be more cliche:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/06/the-pope-steps-in-it-again.php

[glasater]

Henry, thanks for that explanation on the Chinese attack. And I even understood quite a bit of it : )

Clarke knows how bad this Chi-com hack would be given his background but didn't get close to giving any details and probably for good reason.

JIB,

I've been thinking on the Chambers Bay gravel pit history and if its anything like how the North part of our county was settled back in the late nineteenth century, those settlers and much earlier people were looking to build roads and railroad beds. So one of the first things they did was track down material for those purposes.

We have a neighbor who has a gravel pit on his property and he gives us access to it for building roads on our ranch.

Sometimes the gravel pits 'give out' and have lost their usefulness and I imagine that's what happened at Chambers.

[DrJ]

JiB,

I don't know what the resistance of the ground might be. Its potential is zero, but how it conducts current it a different thing.

I'm surprised daddy's number is reported as current, instead of energy or power -- I'd think those would be more useful numbers.

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

glasater,

Some Wag said it was used as a "garbage dump" but I can't find anything that it ever was used for that but was a dormant gravel mine. In any event, it is winning.

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

DrJ.

They're journalists who equate Amps to current not necessarily energy or power. Everytime the lights go out, the lady or hubby of the house sends them down to the basement to check on those figgermajigs called breakers. Some are numbered 15 and some 25 all in Amps. Voila - amps equal electric current.

[glasater]

Being by a heavy population center I'm sure Chambers was used as a dump in an earlier life, JIB. Kinda sounds like reverse snobbery in a way turning a dump/gravel pit into a world class golf course. The pros playing today might argue with that description.

I played in a state tournament years ago at close by Fircrest GC. Lots of military in the vicinity also.

[Threadkiller]

An electric argument?

I have switched to Kirkland Light* so this may take awhile for me to get all Google on y'all.

*CH, please don't think less of me.

[anonamom]

I didn't say it WAS a garbage dump--I asked IF it had been one,
before I read it was a gravel pit.

A low shot looking up of a turfed over dug out gravel pit looks a lot like the garbage "hills" they create in Michigan when they are maxed out and turf them over.

[DrJ]

JiB, amps do equate to current, by definition. I'd still be more interested in the integral with time of the power -- that is the energy of the lightning strike.

[peter]

JIB, I am glad you are having a good time in Beantown. I have not had a lot of luck in the North End; last time I was there my son was rowing in the Head of the Charles, we waited it seemed for ever for a table.

[Extraneus]

Folks, Ms. Archuleta is the first Latina director of OPM. Get with the program.

[Jack The Transformer]

Today you could watch the open on an old black and white TV and it wouldn't make any difference.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Is that COSTCO's beer, TK? I don't think I've ridiculed beer choices here, other than some of my own, before so I won't start now.

At first I thought you were talking about a municipal electric company.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

I assume the USGA paid Chambers Bay enough to redo those greens starting tomorrow. That course looks much better to watch the tourney on tv than to be there.

[Extraneus]

P = VI (Power = Voltage x Current)

(1 Watt of power = 1 Volt x 1 Ampere)

V = IR (Voltage = Current x Resistance)

(1 Volt = 1 Ampere of current x 1 Ohm of resistance)

If we knew the resistance of the air that carried the current, the current numbers would tell us the voltages and we could calculate the power.

This website says the potential of an average lightening bolt is around 100,000 Volts, so a 50,000 Amp lightening strike would equate to around 5 billion Watts of instantaneous power.

http://www.windpowerengineering.com/featured/business-news-projects/how-much-power-in-a-bolt-of-lightning/

[Miss Marple]

Captain Hate, I have been known to drink CVS's Merlot, which is 3.50 a bottle on sale.

JiB and DrJ are probably horrified. LOL!

[Man Tran]

I've dealt with ground grids for safety of equipment on wayside bungalows. My first production systems went in on the Florida East Coast in JiB's neck of the beach. That coral sand is awful, so it is a double damn equipment safety issue. Getting the ground down to about 1ohm is about as good as you can get down there with a couple of chemical rods. If you take a hit on one at that impedance, you'll get fused glass all around the copper tube.

I think the power companies lay out very large arrays to get a stable reference at substations. I doubt the impedance get a lot less than 1ohm, but it won't glass up with repeated hits.

[glasater]

For Henry altho he may have already seen this link but Cathyf posted it on FB along with Chaco and A(Bub):

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-agency-plundered-by-chinese-hackers-made-one-of-the-dumbest-security-moves-possible-2015-6

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Miss Marple, I know from personal experience that DrJ believes in drinking whatever you feel like.

[DrJ]

JiB and DrJ are probably horrified.

Nah. Drink what you enjoy (or can afford)!

I almost got into an argument with a "hostess" at Ferrari Carano Vineyards (northern Sonoma County). She was rather huffy in insisting that I should drink a $35 or more bottle of wine per day, otherwise my life would be wasted.

Uh huh. I do not have a budget that allows for that.

[narciso]

but they are an independent body, snorfle,

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/06/21/iran-parliament-rejects-inspections-of-military-sites-scientist-interviews/

[Extraneus]

Forget the lightening. This is supposedly a serious logic problem. What the hell does it have to do with the redhead?!

http://io9.com/youll-need-all-3-clues-to-solve-this-puzzle-1650957105

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Thank you for posting that, DrJ; I was worried I'd inaccurately paraphrased you. Or misunderstood.

[DrJ]

CH, nope! Wine or beer or other booze is something to enjoy -- it certainly is not a need. Do as you like and enjoy it! Who cares what others say?

[henry]

Thanks glasater. What I wonder is whether the breach went much farther than OPM. How secure was anything else on the govt network to trusted, inside, ROOT access? Plus, how many other govt departments used the same outsource contractors? As big and bad as the admitted hack is, do they have any clue how far it really extends?

If you were running ops dependent on secure data, can you assume anything except your data is completely blown?

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

NOAA says lightning can be either positive or negative. Negative is more common but positive is more dangerous, especially as the kind that can reach out and touch someone miles from the storm.
It also says what I had always heard that the bolt we see is the return positive stroke after the first negative downward strike.

[Rocco]

There was a time in this country when life was considered a gift from God and to not defend that life was to hold that gift in contempt.

Didn't Pope Francis recently call for an armed response to ISIS?

Is his Swiss Guard not armed?

You've lost me Pope Francis!

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

So why shouldn't this Archuleta broad be prosecuted for criminal negligence?
Because of her skin color?

[sbw]

CT, from an earlier thread: And I'm not going to pretend it's the Speaker's fault one of our guys didn't play by the rules.

CT, rules, you say. Whose rules, Washington’s of Jefferson’s?

My reading of the Constitution does not list Boehner’s rules.

[glasater]

Henry @ 7:08

Appreciate your comment and similar thoughts cross my mind. We know how incompetent these bureaucracies are.

The only saving grace might be how 'stovepiped' various agencies operate. IOW protecting the turf might be a good thing in this case.

[henry]

This is odd. The claim is liberals are more biased in reading science results, and the story suggests this carries over into publication / rejection. Specifically social science here. (I did not read the publication, so don't know how well it holds up).

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Am I the only person shocked that in 2015 there are still clowns in the US Open crowd yelling "Baba booey" after a shot? At least Augusta National runs them quickly.

Another sport ruined by the Pacific Northwest.

[anonamom]

MM, I see you have Trader Joe's in Indianapolis.
They sell a red we've enjoyed--Trentatre. $5.99.

From Inexpensively.com

Trentarte Rosso 2007; Available at Trader Joe’s, $6. This is a very well balanced wine that is imported from Italy. Trentarte means thirty three and the bottle is aptly named because it is an equal blend of Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon and Montepulciano. This is in many ways (despite the price) typical of the good Super Tuscan wines that received so much press over the past few years with flavors of rich cherry and many earthy tones intermixed.

[pagar]

http://www.weaselzippers.us/227097-damage-from-chinese-hack-of-the-opm-is-beyond-measure/

Unbelievable!

[Threadkiller]

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/435/138131/

Yeesh

[Jane]

Malbec in a box. My favorite as well as Athena red - under $10.00

[henry]

Glasater, stovepiped COBOL. Yeah, except we know the ACA site connected to many of these stovepipes throughout the govt without any thought to security. (Note, these were IRS, HHS, and payroll related things ??OPM?? So connections are there once on the inside). Maybe the operational systems are on a different net (except hackers routinely get to these from the public web). All I am sure of is the scope of this hack keeps expanding as details dribble out.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Look everyone, please do not respond to this or comment on this - or say anything related to this. It is just my opinion, and I want to say this because I believe it, especially on this day.

If you feel differently - it doesn't need to be said.

Please.

I truly think Ben has done right by his son. I truly think whatever else we see here from him, he's been a good dad. All the shit he gives us here can be separated out for this for me.

Be the biggest dickhead asshole on the internet - and still raise a son right? You still raised a son right.

Happy father's day, Ben. You've earned it.

JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR: I probably won't speak to or about you again for another 4 years, Ben. Just like the last (almost) 4 years (yes, it's been that long). But you can keep trying to contact me if you want. It won't help, but if it makes you feel better, I won't begrudge you badgering me online. I promise to read at least some of what you write. Just please keep being a good dad.

[Threadkiller]

Jeff. You are great!

[Threadkiller]

JIB, Google and Kirkland Margaritas have failed me. Go to The Green Dragon, in Boston, for History and breakfast and your own history. The bestt breakfast I have ever had. Can't find shit on the interwebs...

Trust me.

[maryrose]

JIB
Love Beantown and I am jealous of you eating in the North End
I can't wait to get back there
Maybe next summer and then on to the Cape

[maryrose]

From the the other thread
Between Dowds article and the comments the Times is all out of love with Hillary

[Rocco]

Lots of history here if this is the place you're referring too Tk? And the Freedom Trail is a great way to spend a day walking around Boston.

http://greendragonboston.com/

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

Eff JP Morgan.
How bout "believe what your conscience and values lead you to, don't intentionally harm other employees, do your job and you'll be rewarded"?

[Threadkiller]

Rocco, Happy Father's Day. I hope you knew I was f'n with the resident ding-dong on the fetus jab.

That is the place, but the breakfast menu somehow eluded me online.

[Threadkiller]

Ig, I will be sending you an email soon. Any interest in rebuilding an 1894 Winchester that means a lot to me?

[Rocco]

Thank you Tk and Happy Father's Day to you too.

Freedom Trail

[Captain Hate]

Yeesh

Speaking of which, my review of this high priced swill is the fourth from the top:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30/4072/

[Captain Hate]

Happy Father's Day to all my fellow Dads. My Hatettes have called and I think I've used up my stories of Father Hate (not that at my age I don't repeat things; hopefully they stay consistent but I won't test that today).

[narciso]

so you would recommend against it, Capt, what's with the Wizzo Company testers, then,

[Beasts of England]

How many PSI in an ampere? I always forget.

[lyle]

You're a bigger man than I, Jeff. Huzzah.

[Captain Hate]

Yes, narc, a lot of my fellow hop kissing sots were more generous than I was. I won't argue that it's subjective but I have a certain expectation of that type of beer that just wasn't met. I had another of that style from California's The Bruery and it was much much better.

There are times that an American brewery takes a style and tweaks it a bit to make it different but interesting in it's own way. That same brewery, Avery, did that with their Oktoberfest, The Kaiser, that differed from the gold standard, Ayingers, in ways that I found very successful. Not so with Salvation.

Somebody suggested that maybe I just got a bad bottle. I responded that it wasn't flat at all and that even though that's not the sole indicator, there are plenty of alternatives and life's too short to not try something else or go with what I already like.

[lyle]

And what's the RS in an ohm, again, DrJ?

Anyone but me see the overall view of that golf course and not see it as a metaphor for out times?

[Jack The Trans-Foraer]

So, i go down to the bar waiting for Mrs JiB and the boys to finish their dinner outside and meet up with a couple of guys watching the Open. We get aloing well, no poltics, no deplategae, no nothing just talking.

Found out that you go to Modern Pastry not Mikey's because it is a tourist thing. Then the older guy leaves and tells me he is a retired 2 star general US Army fought in Iraq first time.

You never know who will sit next to in a bar. Be careful!

[lyle]

Meta typo alert.

[glasater]

Henry, I can somewhat read between the words you write and sense your deep concern. You and I are pretty lucky in that we either live in a refuge of sorts or have access to one. Don't know how other JOMmers are set up but I do worry about those who live in or close by heavy population centers.

[Captain Hate]

Guys hitting irons 280 yards are flirting with the unpossible.

These greens are making the leaders look like Phil did all weekend.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

--Ig, I will be sending you an email soon. Any interest in rebuilding an 1894 Winchester that means a lot to me?-

I'd be happy to do any stock work TK, but do not rebuild actions or reblue. Wood is my thing; metal other than basic stuff is not.