I Believe It Is Peace For Our Time

We have a deal with Iran. And let's keep our eyes on the prize - John Kerry gets his Nobel, maybe Barack gets a second (c'mon, he is still not George Bush!) and maybe this won't all go to hell.

And how can we doubt the wisdom and judgment of the man who described ISIS as the "junior varsity"? Who assured us in December 2011 that in withdrawing US troops he was leaving behind a "sovereign, stable and self-reliant Iraq"? Who held up Yemen as a model of US backed counter-insurgency, until the Iranian-sponsored rebels overthrew the government? Who famously said in 2011 that Assad of Syria must go, although with continued Iranian backing, Assad hasn't? Who agreed to overthrow Qadaffi in Libya, with no credible plan to win the peace?

I suppose supporters of this deal can argue that Obama can't be wrong about everything, but I think he is on a roll.

Comments

[Bon Appetit. Save your fork, there's yellow cake.]

So those centrifuges are making whirled peas?

[peter]

It's five fricking am, and I'm not foist? That's a pretty incomplete list of broken Obama promises.

[peter]

Happy Bastille Day at the LUN courtesy Jacky Terrasson

[henry]

This is a day that will live in infamy.

[Miss Marple]

Good morning!

I was on last night's thread having woken to BBC covering this.

Iran radio (says BBC) is portraying this as normaliziing their relations with the world and a great victory.

Christiane Amanpous retweeted some guy who said the Nobel Committee's work just got a whole lot easier. (If it is given to Kerry he will be insufferable.)

Netenyahu has had scathing criticism on Twitter.

Obama is going to speak at 7 AM. This demonstrates he CAN get up early if it is something that will make him the star.

[henry]

Walker said yesterday that whatever this deal ended up, the U.S. would back out of it day one of his presidency -- then get rest of world to install even tougher sanctions.

[Miss Marple]

I am watching Twitter and Mark Halperin has tweeted nothing but signals that opposition to this is only from the "conservative elite" and that American people WILL like it.

This has been followed by various MSM calling it historic" and "legacy."

White House already has made it political by dismissing any criticism as efforts to taint the deal.

We will see if Americans are that stupid. I don't think so, myself. Too many remember the hostage crisis and those "Death to America" chants.

[Steve]

Full Video - Scott Walker 2016 Presidential Announcement: 'Fight and Win For America'

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/07/scott-walker-2016-presidential.html

[pagar]

IMO, Henry has it right.

"This is a day that will live in infamy."

[Jack is Back!]

DOOM™®©

[Miss Marple]

You know, it's pretty sad when CHER said this would be a bad deal, and she was right.

[Jack is Back!]

Well, at least they gave Israel a copy of the deal. When they give us their opinion and analysis that will be best indicator of how bad it is.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.665821

[Miss Marple]

Jack,

Several people are pointing out that the list of entities on the list of who gets sanctions lifted include several Iranian agencies on thelist due to proliferation of WMD's.

[Miss Marple]

Well, here is Obama just making stuff up.

Says this will make things safer and stop proliferation.

He sounds angry.

[Jack is Back!]

Oh?

Philip Klein ‏@philipaklein 2m2 minutes ago
Obama says 2/3 of centrifuges will be eliminated. So, that means ~ 6k will remain. WH original claimed it would be limited to 500-1500 tops.

Did he have to remind me that he has been POTUS for 6 years so far?

What an arrogant little prick.

[Jack is Back!]

1994.

Deja vu all over again.

Sounds like the same words Clinton used in re The North Korea deal.

They got the bomb eventually.

[DublinDaveForever]

You're welcome.

[Miss Marple]

Obama said he will VETO any Congressional effort to dismantle this deal.

[Miss Marple]

I cannot see how this is anything but capitulation to Iran.

[Miss Marple]

IAEA wants to inspect.
Submits a request to Iran.
Iran has FOURTEEN DAYS to respond.

Insanity.

[Jack is Back!]

Not all sites (i.e. Military) included in verification and inspection process.

Can we arrest and try Bob Corker for treason?

[James D.]

MM, you said it exactly right. Capitulation, and insanity.

[James D.]

Can someone remind me again why it was so vital that the R's win the Senate?

[Jack is Back!]

Clarice's favorite pundit on Iran:

Omri Ceren ‏@cerenomri 5m5 minutes ago
Sanctions relief will include American-murdering archterrorists. Arms embargo is being dismantled. No anytime-anywhere. Wow.

[Miss Marple]

Kerry is on now bloviating.

I am absolutely convinced this is a way to destroy Israel.

Obama has set this up so that anyone who opposes the deal is wanting Iran to have nuclear weapons, when the opposite is true.

I am waiting to hear what the Saudis say.

[Jack is Back!]

If you want to follow Omri Ceren and his very crisp analyis go to the link.

https://twitter.com/cerenomri

[DublinDaveForever]

For the adults,access to the supply chain pretty much nails it.

For the Republican party we pretty much have to wait for Trumps response.

And this is why you'll never be allowed to make important foreign policy decisions ever again.

[Miss Marple]

Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.

It's 1939 all over again.

[Miss Marple]

From Twitter:

[Miss Marple]

CNN Breaking NewsVerified account
‏@cnnbrk

All of Iran's goals in #IranDeal have been met, Iranian President Rouhani says http://cnn.it/1HsrUI7

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

from Lileks Sept. 2006 -

"There’s something else behind the indifferent reaction, though. Everyone has already accepted the idea of Iranian nukes. I think it’s been factored into our subconscious calculations, where they lie as great red glowing things whose threat is somehow still abstract. They won’t use them. They just want them. The way we all want a big-screen TV, and would keep it in the box once we bought it.

I frequently hear people remark that Iran would not be stupid enough to use a nuke, since they know it would bring about retaliation. But MAD only works if the other guy’s SANE. If the Administration regularly made remarks like Ahmadinejad and the other top-tier leaders, critics in the West would have long ago been dissolved in a puddle of corrosive urine. Imagine the President of the United States addressing a group of supporters and leading them in a chant of “Death to Iran.” Imagine what that might mean.

If it helps clarify things, imagine a flash of lightning."

[pagar]

"All of Iran's goals in #IranDeal have been met, "

None of any sane American goals have been met, IMO.

http://soopermexican.com/2015/07/14/the-deal-is-a-historic-mistake-netanyahu-responds-to-nuke-deal-announcement/

"‘The Deal Is a HISTORIC MISTAKE’ – Netanyahu Responds to Nuke Deal Announcement"

IMO, this whole deal has been set up to wipe out Israel.

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

"I sure hope Obamacare covers massive third degree burns and radiation sickness." ~ Soylent

[PD]

My mother said in 2008 that if Obama got elected, then we were headed for the Biblical End Times in Revelations. It has been prophesied and written, there is no stopping it. Matthew 24 should be your comfort, fear not and trouble none over this.

Today is a very large step in that direction, being that those in power in Iran are Twelvers and want to bring about Armageddon and a 1000 year peaceful rule. Woe to those who oppose Israel for you will fall.

My mother, now 84, watches sports and tends her gardens - enjoying what time is left. It is not her that is sick, it is the world. Her efforts are not wasted - she who worried the most now worries the least.

My wonderful wife and I are getting my Royal Oak house ready for sale, the amount of work has been staggering but I have a home that someone will love and find peace there. As our painter paints every room, one more part of my old life fades away and I have more room for wonderful experiences with my love.

For those interested, my migraines have been reduced by 75% and even ones that I do have occasionally are not as bad nor as intense and last about 4 hours (instead of all-day or multi-day). The MHNI Clinic and their specialists in Ann Arbor Michigan have truly been miracle workers. I await Nerve Ablation for the neck and hope it will last 12 months instead of 6 months. My big hurdle right now is being out of shape after 2 1/2 years of being completely sedentary and pushing past physical/emotional limits.

I pray all of you are well and that God provides to you peace that passes all understanding.

[henry]

Well, yes, terminate the Iran deal along with everything else Obama did.

[Miss Marple]

PDinDetroit,

I think those are some words offering good advice.

I do think, however, we are called to stand against evil, even if we are in the Last Days, of whom no one knows the hour but the Father.

I am so glad your migraines have lessened! That is really good news!

[jojo]

the idiocy of evil gloats
as it ever has
foretelling its end
as it ever shall be

[jojo]

revision

the idiocy of evil gloats
as it ever has
foretelling its end
as it ever was

[Miss Marple]

From Twitter.

[PD]

Miss Marple - I agree completely, stand against evil but do not be troubled even if it cannot be stopped. Matthew 24 says it better than I can (and must be read in its entirety).

[clarice]

PD glad to hear you are better.

[rse]

And to shift attention slightly, while we are rightfully outraged on the surrender to the mullahs, last night McConnell suddenly invoked cloture on ECAA so the up or down vote has to be Wednesday. http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/campaign-k-12/2015/07/senate_majority_leader_moves_t.html?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=campaignk-12

I am right on the cybernetics but there will be no time for an outcry to build despite lots of blog traffic because of this quick vote. Then reconciliation can create the nightmare bill wanted all along and there can be a quick up or down on that before anyone can read it and get comments up.

And corker does deserve arrest. Thinking like the agenda 21/iclei mayor he was except on the foreign policy stage where being Pollyannish can be deadly.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

You're welcome.

Posted by: DublinDaveForever

Thank you.

[Captain Hate]

Maybe Bob Corker can share Lurch's Nobel prize since he reversed the Senate's advantage in turning down this garbage deal. I don't ever want to hear from the GOPe toadies and lickspittles how we have to hold our noses and vote for these complicit traitors in the future, assuming there is one. They have sold every person out who voted for them other than their crony capitalist masters.

[James D]

PD, thank you for your words. BUt I have to admit, for myself, I find no comfort in Matthew 24. I find only fear and terror there. I guess my faith just isn't strong enough.

[Miss Marple]

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/full-text-of-the-iran-nuclear-deal-124062297481.html

[Marlene]

Morning! Just a quick story from Maine before it goes down the memory hole. Former Sen.George Mitchell's 17 year old son "accidently" caused a fire that burned an acre of woods near Mitchell's MDI home. He was playing with a lighter. He will not be charged and his name wasn't released. I'm shocked that the incident is mentioned in the paper.

[Miss Marple]

Anyone seen a statement from the Saudis, yet?

[Marlene]

PD,good to hear your health is better.The best news of the day!

[Captain Hate]

404 has commuted more jail sentences than the last four Presidents combined, giving a big middle finger to the judges and juries who jailed these vermin in good faith.

[Miss Marple]

http://sana.sy/en/?p=48381

Assad likes the deal.

Quelle suprise.

[Extraneus]

Obama said he will VETO any Congressional effort to dismantle this deal.

That didn't take long.

[sbw]

From a previous thread, squaredance on capitalism: merely a resource management method

Dismissive, aren’t we.

Capitalism is a dynamic feedback system of exquisite sensitivity. It is a cataclysmic change of the human mind. It is a check on human frailty and a defensive tool against the venality of oppressors. It ingeniously connects independent individuals creating a check on Hobbes’ unfettered Leviathan.

Pretty impressive for a mere resource management method.

[Captain Hate]

With any luck he'll stay in New Hampshire:

http://dailysignal.com/2015/07/13/john-kasich-on-common-core-i-want-kids-to-jump-higher/

[Captain Hate]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/07/13/why-i-support-donald-trumps-campaign-and-its-probably-not-what-you-think/#more-103649

[Jack is Back!]

According to Eli Lake, Devin Nunes, the chair of the House G2 Committee, says the intelligence community disagrees with Neville, Jr. and believe this opens the path to the bomb for Iran.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-07-14/house-intelligence-chairman-deal-paves-way-for-iranian-bomb

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Iran wants the bomb.
If it didn't pave the way would the Iranians have signed it?

[Jim Miller]

Credit to Tom Maguire for getting the Chamberlain/Disraeli quote right. Here's a fuller version:

"My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds." (His Wikipedia biography has a recording you can listen to.)

Chamberlain followed that triumph with increases in British efforts to re-arm, and diplomatic efforts to check Hitler. (He spoke on 30 September 1938 and was calling for increased armament in October, though he rejected a proposal to put industry on a war footing.)

[pagar]

Just for domestic consumption.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6160/iran-quds-day-death-america-israel?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Captain Hate]

It should be noted that Iran doesn't fly the Confederate flag so how bad can they be?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

While I don't use the term capitalism, I agree with SBW that the free market is far more than a resource management method.

It is the basis of human interaction and advancement, outside family and friends.

[sbw]

basis of human interaction and advancement, outside family and friends.

Ooh, Iggy, I wish I’d said it that well.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Can I get a job at the paper? :)

[Old Lurker]

SBW at 8:55 reveals an exquisite talent for words. He should consider a career in publishing.

:-)

[rse]

This analysis from Claudia Rossett is demoralizing but right on the money. http://pjmedia.com/claudiarosett/historic-iran-nuclear-deal-today-even-more-historic-and-terrible-reckoning-to-come/?singlepage=true

I guess this deal is to foreign policy what Altgeld Gardens was to refurbishment. In name only.

[henry]

rse, I didn't realize Obama's fundamental change meant at the atomic level.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Pillsbury Dough Boy unimpressed by Barry Chamberlain's assurances.
Contains this curious Barry quote which must be a typo;

Inspectors will have 24/7 access to Iran’s nuclear facilities. Iran will have access to Iran’s entire nuclear supply chain, its uranium mines and mills, its conversion facility and its centrifuge manufacturing and storage facilities.

This ensures that Iran will not be able to divert materials from known facilities to covert ones.

And the actual time Iran has to sanitize any suspect sites appears to be a minimum of 24 days not 14.

[Miss Marple]

Senator Kelly Ayotte just called it an "historic capitulation" on the arms embargo.

[Jane on Ipad]

And the hostages?

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

Look at this evil too...
http://liveactionnews.org/breaking-planned-parenthood-director-caught-on-tape-selling-aborted-baby-parts/

What times we are living in. :(

[henry]

Jane, as far as I can tell, their blood will be used for signing this agreement.

[Marlene]

Jack, just FYI...if you're going to NH on Saturday,this is NASCAR week-end at the NH Motor Speedway. (Loudon,near Concord) 93/89 will have race traffic with the usual tourist traffic.

[sbw]

Thanks, OL. Sometimes words flow. Sometimes they don’t.

Ig, your writing demonstrates what an excellent job applicant you would be.

[Jim Eagle]

Marlene,

We are going up to Hanover on Friday for an overnighter before going to pick up Frederick at camp. Then driving south to catch the ferry back to Long Island. Hopefully we are in couter-traffic around 1pm when we head back. Thanks for the reminder about the race.

[Miss Marple]

Stephen Hayes says he will be surprised if the hostages aren't released soon.

Of course, Hayes believed the Arab Spring BS when I told him it was like Tehran, 1979. He was believing "credible media sources on the ground in Cairo" which included Amanpour and Anderson Cooper.

So basically, Hayes is very gullible.

[Miss Marple]

Fox reports there will be a conference call with Israel AND the King of Saudi Arabia.

[Old Lurker]

Is this not yet another sign that our country is over?

"NEW YORK – At a hearing Monday in Manhattan in which he (the judge) ruled filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza must continue community service for four more years, U.S. District Judge Richard M. Berman said he considers D’Souza’s violation of federal campaign-finance laws to be evidence of a psychological problem and ordered further counseling."

[DublinDaveForever]

This is probably one of the most historic Foreign policy deals ever done by an American President and it seals Barrack Obama's bona fides on the middle east.

This may also help clean up the mess created by the Republican party in the ME. and it may set in the mind of the American people that Republicans are just not qualified to deal with complex foreign policy matters.Sure,they can say "no,no,no,no" like a difficult 2 year old, but that essentially is all they have to show for the last 7 years....saying no over and over again.

Democrats have literally changed the fabric of American society forever.This President will go down in history as quite possibly one of the greatest American Presidents.

This is fucking huge.

[Miss Marple]

OL,

Reminds me of the Soviet Union labeling dissidents "insane."

[Old Lurker]

Indeed, MM. Or all the other communist regimes since 1917.

Thought Police are already rampant here so this means re-education camps are finally being deployed.

I hope we all get to share the same barracks when they come for us here.

[Jim Eagle]

I am now, more than ever, convinced that DuDa is a parody and since we haven't seen bgates in ages, it has to be him. No one, not even Josh Earnest or David Axelrod actually believes and opines like that. But it is even better than anything the Onion could produce.

[Threadkiller]

I hope everybody on planet earth reads CH's 9:02.

[DublinDaveForever]

In the midst of all this political failure a smart person would realize that the Democratic party and the Republican party are one and the same.A smart person anyway.

I have literally sat in an office and watched a member of the DNC and the RNC discuss how best to make Jeb Bush the candidate because the Democrat said and I quote "Walker will be trouble".

The game is fixed to serve the interests of a few, and the pain you're feeling stems from the fact that your interests don't align with those people.They're smart people,they know what works,what makes societies successful and Conservatism for them simply doesn't work in this day and age.It's a political ideoligy that's out of it's time.Just like sometimes you need to raise taxes,sometimes you need to cut taxes......knowing when is for the smart folks to decide.

The game is rigged.

[DublinDaveForever]

sorry....Republican candidate

[squaredance]

It is a cataclysmic change of the human mind. It is a check on human frailty and a defensive tool against the venality of oppressors.

What absolute poppycock. Slave markets were perfectly capitalistic, and so far as "free markets" go, which is a concept that you confuse with Capitalism, perhaps one of the "freest".

capitalism is morally neutral, and one have some form of it without "free markets", democry (in the modern sense), or even universal suffrage.

Reread what I wrote: You are confusing the larger Civilization, with all its ramifications, with "capitalism". What you suggests a fetish of of it as a pure abstraction and takes it out of historical, poltical and practical context.

Strictly speaking, capitalism, in the practical sense. is about managing resources: the chief resource being "Capital" or excess value, and all that goes with that.

Capitalism is not the same as "free markets" but of course requires markets to be as free as possible to reap the highest benefits.

It is most manifestly not true that "It ingeniously connects independent individuals creating a check on Hobbes’ unfettered Leviathan." This result, to the extent that it actually occurs and which is always highly elusive and rarely permanent in any actual political form, is due to the broader "background" of our civilization. There is no sign at all that it is acting as a check" against the state in places like China or India, and this is of course why we squint our eyes and call these systems "State Capitalism"

One need not look further than "Capitalist China" or the emerging consolidation of "Capital" (realy, debt) under the growing globaist order to see this.

Now, if you want to say that these are "perversions of true capitalism", I would agree, but I would say that this amounts to a distinction without a difference.

This is rather my closing point in that post: as we move away from the underpinnings of Capitalism historically provided by our civilization, we see again that as a technique, capitalism in and of itself is not sufficient in and of itself to keep vouchsafe human flourishing or the Civilization we should cherish.

The whole advance in places like India or China could fall apart in less than a generation. This could well be cause by a failure to "graft" in onto a Civilization that heretofore found it alean It is working now, ironically, because the globalists, who detest our civilization, have allowed it to ocur, or at least allowed them into the global "value chain". Simultaneously, they empowered local elites without really changing much structurally. (Something like 80% of the firms in some Chinese markets are government owned, I would point out). Should the chain break, and there are hard times ensue, and elites are threatened, one wonder what form of "capitalism" will remain.

Now this does beg the question: Are these globalist and local elites "capitalists" or is this another "perversion" of it? I would respond again that it hardly matters as the roots of this project and this "form" of capitalism, grow out of or descend from the "capitalism" that you so valorize. The chief point here is that there is no way in "cap[ticalism" iteslf to combat this "New Order", but can only be fought on a broader "civilizational battle field". This is, again, at least partly because "capitalism" is in itself a practice or a technique.

As to your notion that I am being "dismissive", I would counter that I am being accurate and concise, and would posit that your rebuttal to that is superficial and ahistorical.

And I will add that if the current Globalist tyranny achieves it final goal, then capitalism as an "historical" phenomena, will most certainly have proved "cataclysmic", though not at all in the sense that you mean it.

This would not be a failure of "capitalism" but a failure of Civilization.

[MarkO]

Thanks, JiB. I was late to the game this morning.

I repeat, however, the obvious:

DOOM™®

Obama may have been born in Hawaii, but he is clearly the first Third-World President of the US.

[Miss Marple]

Corker on Fox now.

Says they haven't seen details of the agreement.

This is not true, as the full thing is available on line.

Says there is great skepticism.

[Miss Marple]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3160876/Knifeman-shouting-Allah-great-forces-tourist-knees-holds-blade-neck-Rome-s-Colosseum-terrifying-random-attack.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

[rse]

G7 has commissioned this report on using Climate Change to institutionalize statism. http://www.newclimateforpeace.org/#report-top

[Old Lurker]

Corker still have some pieces of silver left over?

[Janet - I wish my family had a poncho]

Love this, Captain - "It should be noted that Iran doesn't fly the Confederate flag so how bad can they be?"

[sbw]

I won’t burden the blog by repeating content, squaredance, but far from being superficial and ahistoric, my view is available for free online at exploringcharacter.com both in 218 pages as a PDF or as an audiobook titled Individuals, Journalism, and Society.

[Rick Ballard]

How long will it be before Netanyahu and Salman invite Sisi over to discuss their common interests?

[Miss Marple]

I figure within 2 weeks, Rick.

Lou Dobbs on now saying it is ridiculous.

[henry]

Even Lindsey Graham tweeted that it was a worse disaster than he expected.

[pagar]

"Says there is great skepticism."

Did he also say there is nothing that can be done and we will have to accept the sellout of America?

[Miss Marple]

Lou Dobbs also says this is a capitulation, which I said yesterday.

I should have used the word "surrender" yesterday. Maybe that would have been picked up and the LIV's would understand it. I am not so sure they understand "capitulation."

[squaredance]

Sbw: So you refuse to face my position and its very, but refer me to an article that reflects and restates your hobby horse? You may not realize it, this is not valid argumentation.

Again: your position is superficial, and historical, as is the resource you point me too, and this is proved by you refusal to argue it.

Imagine my surprise.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--and so far as "free markets" go, which is a concept that you confuse with Capitalism, perhaps one of the "freest"--

Well, except for that little matter of the third party who had no say in the contract.
A free market is not free of any regulation; that is anarchy. It is regulated to protect innocent parties from harm by others.

It was "civilization" after all, not the free market, which created the framework of laws codifying and legalizing slavery.

[Dave (in MA)]

Marlene

Hadn't seen you on in a while, but I wanted to mention that some Maine real estate agency has been running ads on the Howie Carr show offering fed-up MA residents the opportunity to "leave the moonbats behind" and come up there.