Income Inequality - Back To The Stone Age!

Ian Morris of Stanford has a guest column in the Times on the history of income inequality:

Everyone on earth was a forager 15,000 years ago, surviving by hunting wild animals and gathering wild plants. These methods had low yields and worked best when people lived in tiny bands and moved around a lot. Foraging also made it difficult to accumulate wealth and power: There was no room for kings and aristocrats. Foragers tended to be very poor but very equal. (By one calculation, the typical hunter-gatherer’s standard of living was equivalent to about $1.10 in 1990 values.)

This all changed, though, about 11,000 years ago with the beginning of farming. Because more food could be produced, the human population exploded. There were roughly 6 million foragers in the world in 10000 B.C., but by 1 B.C. there were about 250 million farmers. Big social groups that stayed in one place, working their fields, flourished at the expense of smaller, less sedentary ones. Between 9000 B.C. and A.D. 1800, almost all foraging societies went extinct.

Farmers were typically richer than foragers, with average living standards equivalent to $1.50-$2.20 per day. Farming society needed more complicated divisions of labor than the foraging world. Some people became aristocrats or godlike kings; others became peasants or slaves. And economic inequality surged.

...

Anthropological studies of foraging societies suggest that their Gini coefficients for income and accumulated wealth both averaged around 0.25. In farming societies, however, the average income inequality almost doubled, to 0.45. The Roman Empire scored around 0.43, England in 1688 about 0.47, and France on the eve of the Revolution an eye-watering 0.59.

...

But then everything changed again with the industrial revolution. Fossil fuels released a flood of energy, with steam and electricity powering machines that vastly augmented human and animal labor.

Leaving us where? Well, it's complicated:

If the twists and turns of economic history over the last 15,000 years and popular will are any guide, the “right” level of post-tax income inequality seems to lie between about 0.25 and 0.35, and that of wealth inequality between about 0.70 and 0.80. Many countries are now at or above the upper bounds of these ranges, which suggests that Mr. Piketty is indeed right to foresee trouble.

At the same time, the patterns of the past tend to reveal new questions just as much as they answer old ones. Farming swept away foraging and fossil fuels swept away farming; today, there are signs that the fossil fuel world, in turn, is coming to an end. New energy sources, technologies that break down boundaries between mind and machine, and shifts toward living in virtual rather than physical spaces all threaten to make the 21st century the biggest rupture in history, dwarfing the agricultural and industrial revolutions.

If so, then we should learn another lesson from history: that what works well in one age can fail completely in another. It’s quite possible that a century from now worrying about the right level of inequality for a fossil fuel society might seem as irrelevant as worrying about the right level of inequality for Neanderthals does today.

 

 

Comments

[matt]

foist?

[narciso]

we eat fossil fuels now? manufacturing replaced farming, what is this professional idiocy, or self taught,

[matt]

Glog kill mastodon by self. Glog trade meat for woman. Glog strongest hunter. F**k Ian Morris.

[Captain Hate]

The GOPe was not amused:

http://www.weaselzippers.us/228606-sc-lawmaker-suggests-replacing-confederate-flag-with-white-surrender-flag/

[narciso]

I don't recognize this country,

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/09/time-surprised-gamers-dont-like-kate-uptons-game-of-war-ads-either/

[Captain Hate]

I have to see if this is locally available:

http://www.weaselzippers.us/228613-st-louis-microbrewery-introduces-new-beer-that-mocks-islam-libs-go-bezerk/

[Jeff Dobbs]

Everyone on earth was a forager 15,000 years ago

FACT CHECK: I was not even around 15,000 years ago, so this is clearly FALSE.

[Old Lurker]

"Glog trade meat for woman."

Where Glog learns the meaning of Slippery Slope.

[Thomas Collins]

There is most likely less wealth inequality than there has been in a long time, if an adjustment is made for the level of living. For example, megabucks hedge fund honcho no doubt can afford a Plutonium smartphone plan that provides better service than working stiffs Jane and Joe can afford. But Jane and Joe can still have a very serviceable smartphone with which they can research, text, call, and view Kate Upton and Johnny Depp ads and videos. Same with nutrition. Jane and Joe can eat as well as hedge fund honcho. The steps the progs are pushing to supposedly lessen inequality, by inhibiting economic growth, will actually increase inequality.

[Thomas Collins]

And if Jane and Joe want to see Michelangelo's David, they can most likely find flights to Italy at an affordable price. They may not have their own plane or be able to stay at an Italian mogul's place, but they can get just as much out of Italian art and sculpture as the hedge fund honcho.

[Old Lurker]

That's Decreasing Marginal Utility, TC.

I could live as well on $100 million as on Ten Billion, and so on. (Not that I know, but I think that is true.)

But in limiting the person who would create the wealth that spans those two numbers will deprive all of society in so many ways.

Also, one really really must dig into the numbers that compare these things over time since most do not fairly account for the income value of all the safety net programs in place, and in measuring wealth, to the extent that safety net is a bankable entitlement, then the Present Value of all one's future safety net transfers really should be scored as an asset to the recipient.

And so on.

[Cecil Turner]

OL, you almost made me snort coffee. Thanks.

[danoso]

Some people became aristocrats or godlike kings;

With the advent of agriculture, wealth started to form, and would concentrate in towns. It was the first time in human history that stealing was worth it, so marauding bands would go from town to town, taking whatever they could.

Some enterprising group of marauders thought it would be better to just keep stealing from the same town, promising to keep other thieves away. They simply demanded their tribute in return.

The start of government. And it really hasn't changed much - they set themselves up as our betters, and keep us in our places.

[Buckeye]

OL @ 11:56

I am trying to remember what I traded to learn about the Slippery Slope. Getting old is bad in so many ways.

[henry]

What was the Big Mac index at 15,000 years ago?

How long did Raquel Welch's suitors live? (not very long from the non Raquel parts of that film).

[Captain Hate]

You know what else happened when foragers became farmers? Beer.

[henry]

CH, I heard the beer came first.

[Old Lurker]

Have I said "F em all" yet today?

WaPo Headline "Boehner calls for review of Confederate symbols in the U.S. Capitol"

[henry]

OL, Washington owned slaves. Move the government to Topeka.

[Old Lurker]

Henry,

More than a few in DC are calling for the demolition of the Jefferson Memorial, the renaming of the city, and oh, the right for illegals to vote.

[Cecil Turner]

Foragers tended to be very poor but very equal.

All you really need to know about that one. (And you can insert "socialists" or "communists" for "foragers" with little loss of meaning or fidelity.)

[Captain Hate]

Welp they needed a stockpile of grains for it first, henry. I snagged that from that book from the beer writer in the WSJ wrote about brewskis in history and specifically this in Babylon.

[Captain Hate]

And you can insert "socialists" or "communists" for "foragers" with little loss of meaning or fidelity.

Or homeless.

[Jeff Dobbs]

OL:
WaPo Headline

henry:
Washington owned slaves.

Resolved: WaPo needs to change its name more than the Redskins do.

[narciso]

it would seem no,

[Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

IMO, we would be a lot better off as a nation if we found out why Boehner was in the U.S. Capitol as a so called leader of the gop. He is just doing what the leftist want.

[Miss Marple]

Pagar,

I am still convinced a fair number of them are either being threatened or blackmailed.

[Old Lurker]

It would be OK with me if, since Boehner is evidently just about symbols and not substance, that as one such symbol every donor to any republican in the country would send 5% of said donation to a kitty for anyone willing to go against Boehner in a Primary. I would not care who they are or how pure they might be, but that guy needs to be Cantored ASAP.

Just sayin.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Income Inequality - Back To The Stone Age!--

Do we actually know how much Fred Flintstone made relative to Mr. Slate?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Meep. Meep.
Wretchard weighs the worldwide left in the balance and finds them wanting.

Nothing works out as advertised, but this never discredits the Acme brand.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

I am still convinced a fair number of them are either being threatened or blackmailed.

Birthers are equally convinced of the same.

[narciso]

I've been considering the Wile E metaphor for a while now,

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

“I believe that Mr. Trump is kind of telling it like it really, truly is,” Brewer told host Don Lemon on CNN’s “CNN Tonight.”

“I think that the people of Arizona realize that we picked up the tab for the majority of the violence that comes across our border in regards to the drug cartels, the smugglers, the drug houses,” she added. “It has been horrendous.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/247376-ex-arizona-governor-trump-telling-it-like-it-is

Rodeo Clownette...

[jimmyk]

Because there's a "right" amount of inequality independent of the level of standard of living. What's that Churchill quote on socialism? "Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

[glasater]

No deal 'yet' on Iran.

[narciso]

well this is different:

http://sputniknews.com/world/20150709/1024417451.html?

[narciso]

does it matter, the Top Men have committed not to challenge it,

[Cecil Turner]

Trump calls Snowden a "traitor"? Even a stopped clock . . .

[narciso]

skydragon watchers, confuzzled,

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/emissions_up_temperatures_down/

[lyle]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2015/07/08/chris-matthews-donald-trump-can-be-dangerous-saddam-hussein

If this means President Trump would be disappearing Chrissy and his MESSNBC cohort, sign me up. And no, I don't imply industrial shredder usage. That would be too kind...

[matt]

In studying the Bushmen of the Kalahari one finds that the Karoo, or chief, has many more lion hides, gourds of fermented meerkat piss, and elephant toenails.

In far off Papua New Guinea, the chief of the Huli wigmen (I am not making this name up)has a large collection of shrunken heads to add to his ritual power that the average wigman does not have. He also has the corner on the Bird of Paradise feather cache and the fattest and ugliest women.

Lastly, deep in the Amazon, the chiefs of the Tupinamba tribes have the best and largest canoes and cocaine stashes.

So even in the pre-historic tribes that remain the social order is clearly stratified. Can someone pass the feather now?

[Extraneus]

Foragers tended to be very poor but very equal.

Whoever wrote this doesn't understand the basics.

Tony Montana:

"First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the women."

As Glog mentioned, this was true 15,000 years ago.

[Captain Hate]

Attention TK:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/curtis-houck/2015/07/09/megyn-kelly-eviscerates-obama-administrations-refusal-crack-down#.nxwzah:yuXy

[henry]

Can someone pass the feather now?

First you need fat ugly women to trade with the Huli wigman chief -- he has all the feathers stashed.

[narciso]

glog, caveman human resources coordinator,

[Captain Hate]

Per Tammy Bruce, in Oregon a 15 year old can get a state financed sex change operation without parental consent.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Another PPP poll...this one national

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_US_0414925.pdf

The GOP’s front-runner is…Donald Trump?

Raleigh, N.C. – Every month, PPP polls Republican primary voters nationwide about their preferences for the GOP presidential nomination. Almost every month, the top four candidates have been in a statistical tie, with various candidates jockeying back and forth for slim leads. But for the first time in three months … PPP has found a candidate who puts serious distance between himself and the rest of the field: Donald Trump.

Trump leads with 26% over Huckabee’s 17% …

“Donald Trump is certainly getting a lot of traction with Republican primary voters,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling. “A lot of GOP voters have not been happy with their choice of candidates and Trump is filling that void, at least for the moment.”

Published: April 14, 2011

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Magpie Kelly is hawt!

[lyle]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/09/oregon-allowing-15-year-olds-to-get-state-subsidized-sex-change-operations/

UNDER A FIRST-IN-THE-NATION policy, 15-year-olds will be allowed to get a sex-change operation without parental notification in Oregon, and the state will even pay for it through its Medicaid program, the Oregon Health Plan.

Well, why not? It's not like Medicaid will run out of money any time soon.

So save your outrage for the report where a 15 year old gets gets to shoot guns without parental consent. THAT would be beyond the pale, eh?

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Magpie Kelly follows broken clock theory.

Plus, she is hawt!

[lyle]

I missed it by THAT much, CH. I blame Typepad, natch.

[narciso]

that's the plan that has gone Andrea Doria no,

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

More from time machine Gallup.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147233/huckabee-trump-romney-pace-gop-field-2012.aspx

[Captain Hate]

Teh Magpie is ultra hawt when she's pissed off. As are most other women except for Mrs Hate.

[Old Lurker]

How Oregon can do that without at the same time absolving the parents of all further responsibility for the child seems so wrong to me. I mean, emancipate the kid, make him a ward of the state then hack away. But at least the legally and financially responsible parents should at least be able to protect themselves and perhaps their child in court before something irreparable is done.

So so so wrong.

F the Village too.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--15-year-olds will be allowed to get a sex-change operation without parental notification--

Will OR at least provide a name tag so when the parents get home they know who the strange girl on the couch staring vacantly at the TV is instead of the strange boy that was there when they left for work?

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/shock-poll-trump-rolls-into-statistical-tie-with-bush/article/2567932

A present day national poll?

[lyle]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-women-live-longer-than-men-20150707-story.html

Why do women outlive men? Science zeroes in on answer

Thoughts, OL? ;)

[narciso]

his tennis pal, Bandar's palace probably the same
way

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/colin-powell-
rips-trump-would-tell-hotel-workers-to-stay-home/article/2567886e
way

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Repaired link for narciso' s 2:15.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/colin-powell-rips-trump-would-tell-hotel-workers-to-stay-home/article/2567886

[James D]

How Oregon can do that without at the same time absolving the parents of all further responsibility for the child seems so wrong to me.

I guess the progs are just smarter than us. They'd have to be, to reconcile in their minds that a 25-year-old is too young to be expected to have their own health insurance; a 20-year-old is too immature to be allowed to drink or smoke; an 18-year-old high school student can't be trusted to possess athsma medication or advil while in class; but a 15-year-old is perfectly qualified to have major, irreversible, life-altering surgery without the consent - or even knowledge - of their parents.

[narciso]

sorry wrong link
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/colin-powell-rips-trump-would-tell-hotel-workers-to-stay-home/article/2567886

[jimmyk on iPad]

"So even in the pre-historic tribes that remain the social order is clearly stratified."

But that's ok because it was based on brute force, whereas in capitalist societies people get rich from voluntary transactions, which is not ok because [mumble ]

[Jeff Dobbs]

TK:
A present day national poll?

I don't know the value of limiting the choices to three actual candidates, but the leading response in that poll is "Wouldn't Vote"

JULY 7TH, 2015 (5-DAY ROLLING)
716 Responses

Wouldn’t vote
28%

Former Fla. Governor Jeb Bush
26.4%

Businessman Donald Trump
24.9%

Fla. Senator Marco Rubio
20.7%

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

I don't know the value of an April 2011 poll that includes undeclared candidates.

[Captain Hate]

A fellow Moron pointed out, in reference to the woman murdered in San Francisco but extends to other things which he can't use for political points, how unmoved Preznit 666 is by other peoples' misery particularly when he was either the cause of it or could have done something to prevent or ward it off. He is really a horrible person and I doubt that any of the GOP candidates will ever point that out.

[Jeff Dobbs]

I know the value of an April 2011 poll that includes undeclared candidates.

[Miss Marple]

Trump's rise is directly proportional to the ridiculous pile-on of criticism on Twitter from a rash of young political consultants who seem to think if Trump wins they will not have jobs, plus the criticisms of assorted candidates and pundits.

In other words, the more he's attacked, the more people will dig their heels in and probably talk him up to their friends.

So far, he's gotten attacked by a lot of people including Colin Powell. I don't suppose anyone asked Powell why he showed up at the coffins of those diplomats, have they? I wonder how he feels now that he knows he lent his rapidly disintegrating reputation to a lie.

Meanwhile, I have counted support for Trump from Ted Nugent and Jan Brewer. I should probably make a chart.

[Captain Hate]

Being attacked by Colon Bowel (somewhat inarticulately but that might have been mistakes in the transcript) is the gold standard of commendations.

[Buckeye]

I would think most parents would have a pretty good idea that their 15 year old was a head case and prone to go off and do something really foolish.

However, if it was my kid, and it happened without my consent, there would be hell to pay. And have no doubt it would be dirty and underhanded. Tit for tat.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Was the purpose to trash PPP?

[Buckeye]

I would think most parents would have a pretty good idea that their 15 year old was a head case and prone to go off and do something really foolish.

However, if it was my kid, and it happened without my consent, there would be hell to pay. And have no doubt it would be dirty and underhanded. Tit for tat.

[lyle]

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/black-owned-bakery-sued-by-gay-confederate-reenactors-t16608.html

[lyle]

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/black-owned-bakery-sued-by-gay-confederate-reenactors-t16608.html

[Buckeye]

JOMland is getting the same treatment today that United, NYSE and WSJ got yesterday

[James D]

He is really a horrible person and I doubt that any of the GOP candidates will ever point that out.

No, they won't, and that's a big part of the problem. The GOP needs to abandon the turtle/goldilocks crap. Imagine if one of the candndates went in search of a microphone and said something like this:

"Look. Obama's IRS is run by crooks who abuse their power and lie to Congress and to federal judges. His OPM - the government's human resources department - just allowed the personal information for 30 million American citizens to be stolen by China. His attorney general has been instigating race riots across the country. His secretaries of state - both of them - have helped to set the whole Middle East on fire, restarted the Cold War, and insulted every ally we've got. His labor department lies about the unemployment rate and every other statistic they give out, and we have fewer Americans in the work force today than we did in 1977. His supreme court picks are drooling embarrassments who wouldn't know the law if you smacked them in the head with a Constitutional Law textbook. It's time for him, and his party, to clear out of the White house while there are still some parts of this country left standing."

[Jeff Dobbs]

No, the purpose was to remind that Trump was doing even better in the polls in 2011 than he is now.

I did not remember that at all.

Of course Obama had to go and ruin #TrumpMania2011 by releasing his long form birth certificate.

[Captain Hate]

I'm listening to Fiorina on Hannity last night just destroying Rodham's performance on the CNN interview by making one excellent point after another. Tammy Bruce is smitten.

[lyle]

James D for head of the RNC!

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

I heard this on LA radio yesterday:

”San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi has deflected blame in the release of a Mexican national now facing murder charges in the Pier 14 slaying by demanding to know why federal authorities returned him to San Francisco to face a 20-year-old marijuana charge in the first place.

The answer, it turns out, is that the Sheriff’s Department asked federal officials to do so”…

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/07/09/report-san-francisco-progressive-sheriff-intentionally-sought-illegal-alien-murderer-to-protect-him-from-deportation/

San Francisco sent transportation to San Bernardino to pick this guy up and take him to his sanctuary.

How many others have had the same treatment? This can't be a one off.

Kinda a Demolition Man/Judge Dredd "create chaos" plot.

If Magpie Kelly cracks this case I will go easy on her for a while.

[Old Lurker]

Lyle: "Thoughts, OL? ;)"

The better construction of that question, "why women live longer than men" is "why do men die before their wives?"

To which the answer is "Because they can???"

This is proving to be one of those days on JOM which Mrs. OL had better not see!

[Cecil Turner]

Now here's the art of the deal: Hillary trades 'Scooby Doo van' for $10m Learjet.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Obama's handlers released an image of a purported BC.

Trump is doing well now because #loonsvotetoo and Trump hasn't betrayed his birther brothers.

This weekend he and Arpaio are filling the arena with supporters in Arizona.  

[lyle]

http://pjmedia.com/blog/senate-dem-obama-should-have-waited-for-congressional-ok-before-fighting-isis/

WTF? So much wrong in this headline, one scarcely knows where to start.

First of all, a dem concerning himself with constitutional powers? Really?

Second, Precious is "fighting ISIS?" Where?

[Jack iis Back!]

Be careful putting too much into the poll TK linked at 2:11, they polled more Dems than Repubs and only about 10% independents. But I guess that is okay since the DNC has been picking the Republican candidate for POTUS the last two times anyway.

[Jeff Dobbs]

TK:
Trump is doing well now because #loonsvotetoo and Trump hasn't betrayed his birther brothers.

Heh.

Oh - and Steve Hayward is calling Trump an immigration wimp because he hasn't addressed . . . wait for it . . . anchor babies.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

:-)

[Buckeye]

Since N719JB only costs $4K/hour to operate, Shrillary can fund that with Clinton Foundation pocket change.

[Jeff Dobbs]

OL:
This is proving to be one of those days on JOM which Mrs. OL had better not see!

Don't look at me.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

Holy shit! Hayward's clever attack on Trump ends up destroying anchor babies Jindal and Rubio.

He even uses the John Eastman YouTube I posted here so many times!

Hahahaha!! I knew all the toung-tying the assholes engaged in to defend their un-constitutional positions on citizenship would betray them, but I didn't think Hayward would be the dummy that spilled the beans.

Hayward does rhyme with Harvard.

[Threadkiller Mobynatious]

...toung-tying assholes...

[Old Lurker]

Oh Jeff...

[Buckeye]

This aircraft (N719JB) is not available for public tracking per request ...

I figured as much.

[Cecil Turner]

But I guess that is okay since the DNC has been picking the Republican candidate for POTUS the last two times anyway.

I notice "wouldn't vote" is ahead and surging. Personally, I didn't think Rubio was that bad. Not my first (or second, or third) choice, but . . .

[Buckeye]

Rubio would be a HUGE improvement over 404.

Besides, his wife is hawt.

[Jane]

TC,

I'd like to see Italy so I'm in.

Thanks for the referral.

[Old Lurker]

You KNOW the David is bigger than real life, right Jane?

[jimmyk]

Rubio would be a HUGE improvement over 404.

That right there is faint praise. Larry "Bud" Melman (if he were alive) would be a huge improvement.

[Buckeye]

But was Melman's wife hawt?

[Captain Hate]

Wow, the ewok must be jonesing for a cig and lashing out and some of the Horde aren't reacting well to it (ie. not cowering like abused dogs). I think I know the guy who posted this in "real life":

Yep you got that right...stupid people say stupid things. Funny how everyone is talking about illegals, but if we took your advice we would not be. Keep wasting your time blogging,, your making no difference in policy. Ban me little man...could careless. Your insights are tired.