Jihadists v. Domestic Right Wing Terrorists - To Which I Would Add...

Megan McArdle takes a long look at the recent study which generated this sort of headline:

"Homegrown Extremists Tied to Deadlier Toll Than Jihadists in U.S. Since 9/11"

I would say, read it all - some of the "right wing terror" may not be and some jihadists (specifically, the Beltway Sniper) may have been inappropriately omitted. Her most important point is this:

The most obvious thing to note is the choice of start date: Sept. 12, 2001. That neatly excludes an attack that would dwarf all those homegrown terror attacks by several orders of magnitude. Ah, you will say, but that was a one-time event. Sort of. It is no longer possible to destroy the World Trade Center, but we can't be certain to never again have a large-scale terror attack that kills many people. If you have high-magnitude but low-frequency events, then during most intervals you choose to study, other threats will seem larger -- but if you zoom out, the big, rare events will still kill more people. We don't say that California should stop worrying about earthquake-proofing its buildings, just because in most years bathtub drownings are a much larger threat to its citizens.

Yes. But let me add two related points. First, we are looking at fatal outcomes NET OF preventative measures. What is the mix of resources devoted to stopping jihadists, versus stopping right wing nutjobs? Just for example, why are we standing in airport lines with our shoes off?

To that, the study counted fatalities (which got the headlines) but also arrests.

Over their chosen time period 302 individuals have been arrested for jihadist plots while 183 non-jihadists have been arrested. If Team Obama can measure jobs created or saved, can't these researchers measure lives saved? OK, probably not - as an poor, out-of-timeframe example, this 1997 "plan" (with a possible KKK link) to blow up a Mitchell Energy natural gas plant might have killed thousands. Or not. Or what about the Times Square bomber, whose failed bomb might have killed thousands? Of course, these prospective casualty estimates come from law enforcement officials - the day may come when the FBI announces they have foiled a plot the consequences of which would have been trivial, but that day has not arrived.

QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS: The fool who posted that he was "putting wings on pigs" and then drove from Baltimore to NYC to gun down two police officers is not presented in this study as an example of ideologically motivated domestic terror. Why not? I can only guess.

This is from the intro to the report:

We examine both those individuals motivated by Jihadist ideology, understood as those who worked with or were inspired by al-Qaeda and its affiliated groups, as well as those motivated by other ideologies that are non-Jihadist in character, for example right wing, left wing, or idiosyncratic beliefs.

Even if the cop-killer doesn't fit their right wing profile, there ought to be room for him under "left-wing" or "idiosyncratic".

Comments

[Buckeye]

first?

[Cecil Turner]

Typical navel-gazing by innumerate lefty psych majors trying to push poll politics.

And if we exclude acts of war (like 9/11), it's still ridiculous. Add all their supposed extremist murders for ten years and it approximates the last couple months of post-riot violence in Baltimore alone. And the appeaseniks think banning the confederate flag and chasing down right-wing extremists is going to have an effect on the murder rate? Risible nonsense.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

The main point of her article was many if not most of the "right wing extremists" had little or no evidence they were right wing or the evidence was that they were not.

I've always assumed GIGO referred to careless data entry.

What is the acronym for intentionally loading up on garbage on the front end for the purpose of expelling just the right kind of garbage on the back end? SNAFU?

[Eric in Boise]

What is the acronym for intentionally loading up on garbage on the front end for the purpose of expelling just the right kind of garbage on the back end?

NYT.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

LOL, Eric.

[Appalled]

Eric wins the one liner award for the day.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

David Bernstein at Volokh takes on Judge Posner's incoherent critique of the Obergefell dissenters.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

Reposted
Still some links in the software:

http://www.jammiewf.com/2015/new-google-app-labeled-black-people-as-gorillas/

[reliapundit]

the times as bomber and the underwear bomber each failed to kill hundreds and only failed because their bombs failed.

[jimmyk]

kinks, not links

[James D]

We discussed McArdle's piece briefly yesterday. I am not as generous to her as others here. She sorta kinda got to the correct answer, after several paragraphs of waffling twaddle and granting the NYT authors a legitimacy they don't deserve.

The only response to the NYT article, and its authors, ought to be:

"It's nothing but distortions, slanders and lies, and you deserve nothing but contempt for writing it. Now go and shut the f**k up."

[Cecil Turner]

It's nothing but distortions, slanders and lies, and you deserve nothing but contempt for writing it.

You left out "propaganda." Other than that . . .

[squaredance]

Yes, well this is mostly just for the converted...maybe those converted can usew this to push a few friends and family over the edge.

The amazing thing is that much of the HYT regular readers now are of the upper middle class now out in the burbs. They have no idea what will happen to them should the Left achieve total control

What is glaringly missing in all this, of course is the very real damaged the various fronts of the Left cause: OWS, all the anarchist protesting at various "global conferences", and the very real murders of people like Ayers.

Of course, the Millennials eat all of this up without question. They, like the upscale "sophisticates" who read the times, a in for some real shocks in time.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

--...and the very real murders of people like Ayers--

For a second my heart leapt like a chamois among the crags at the possibility I had missed some welcome news and then I figured out what the sentence really meant.
Rats.

[squaredance]

Well, that is an interesting question: would that really constitute "Murder".

[GUS]

Meanwhile down at the Naval Yard, all of our resources are chasing a "SQUIRREL!!"

[Captain Hate]

Shocking the MFM gets this entirely wrong. It's almost as if they have an agenda...

http://www.weaselzippers.us/228017-kelly-file-no-there-isnt-a-pattern-of-black-churches-are-not-being-burnt/

[Jim Miller]

Tom - If you go back a little farther back to the 1993 WTC bombing, you'll find an even more ambitious terrorist attack:

"On February 26, 1993, a truck bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. The 1,336 pounds (606 kg) urea nitrate–hydrogen gas enhanced device[1] was intended to send the North Tower (Tower 1) crashing into the South Tower (Tower 2), bringing both towers down and killing tens of thousands of people.[2][3] It failed to do so, but did kill six people and injured more than a thousand.[4]"

I recall reading, years ago, that the terrorists hoped to kill as many as 250,000 people, (All of the people in the towers, and then others in buildings set on fire in a chain reaction.)

If they had succeeded, the atatack would have been more deadly than all of our wars, except the Civil War and WW II.

[Captain Hate]

Soros's money going for blow (both kinds):

http://www.weaselzippers.us/228029-soros-donates-1-million-to-hillary-clinton-super-pac-run-by-david-brock/

[Captain Hate]

DrewM echoing some of my arguments about how the GOPe has created an opening for Trump:

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=357640

[Jim Miller]

When I saw that NYT piece, I glanced at it, and immediately suspected it was wrong. But I didn't take the time to even find out whether the data was available, much less do the analysis that McArdle did.

Which I think is pretty good, though I haven't gotten around to linking to it, yet.

But, if you don't like her analysis, let me suggest you do your own and post it here, or elsewhere, and let us know about it.

Or perhaps you dislike the way she wrote it up. In that case, re-write it to your satisfaction and post it here, or elsewhere, and let us know about it.

(There's nothing especially technical in her analysis so you should be able to re-examine the data, even if you have never had a course in, for instance, statistics.)

[MarkO]

This is the world of false equivalence in which Ron Fournier is King.

[James D]

Jim Miller @ 11:24

My issue with her article (aside from her writing style, which drives me nuts even when I agree completely with whatever point she's trying to make) is that any level of analysis of the NYT piece in question is granting it a legitimacy that is undeserved.

If you want something slightly longer:

"The NYT piece is a piece of dishonest progressive propaganda. To come up with its count of 'right wing terror attacks' it conflates every incident over the last 13 years in which any identifable political opinion of the perpetrator was conservative, regardless of the actual motives or circumstances of the attack. That is crap on toast, and since it's the premise of the whole piece, we can safely ignore the rest of it, and anytihng else from its authors in future."

There.

[jimmyk]

Jim M, the comments here are largely supportive of her analysis but critical of the blase writing style. I don't have time to rewrite the whole piece, but let's start with the headline (which she may not have chosen), the soporific "Tallying Right-Wing Terror vs. Jihad." Why not "NY Times Pushes Absurd Propaganda on 'Right-Wing' Terror"? Or something a bit more instructive.

Then it takes her quite a while to get to the point, which is that the tally of "Right-Wing" terror is based on absurd criteria. Only she doesn't say that. The paragraph begins: "Counting the other types of extremist terrorism is a little murkier." (Zzzzz.)

It's not murky, it's preposterous. Neither the study nor the NYT should have used "Right-Wing" at all. They could have said "non-Jihadist," for example.

[Thomas Collins]

At the end of her piece, when she refers to individuals plotting attacks, McArdle is on the right track. Note that even arrests don't tell the full story. At the Democratic Convention in Boston in 2004, does anyone really think all the jihadists in Boston during that week were arrested? It was the strong law enforcement presence that resulted in no attack.

Ultimately, the NY Times piece is useful only for insight into the extent to which the typical East Coast gentry NY Times reader wants to ignore the threat posed by jihadism, and to fantasize instead about right wing conspiracy plots.

[Cecil Turner]

Or perhaps you dislike the way she wrote it up. In that case, re-write it to your satisfaction and post it here, or elsewhere, and let us know about it.

Or, just point out what you don't like about it, as above, and quit. It's hardly the most pressing issue in America, despite what you might read in the NYT (or alternet).

BTW, if you follow that alternet link, you'd find they've been hashing and re-hashing this narrative for months.

[jimmyk]

ok, didn't see James D's post before posting mine, but making the same point.

[Cecil Turner]

I like JamesD's better. (And particularly "crap on toast.")

[James D]

Aside from all the other things about McArdle's piece, I don't understand who the audience is for it.

It's not us, because we already know her point and agree with it.

It's not progs, because they already know her point, know it's true, but will lie about it because that serves their agenda.

It's not low-info people, because they're not going to read 1,000 words on the subject; it's unlikely they'll get past the first paragraph, if they even make it that far.

And I don't think it's the mythical "persuadables" because they're persuaded on emotion rather than facts & logic, so her analysis is lost on them anyway.

So who is it actually written for?

[James D]

I can't claim "crap on toast", because I picked it up from somewhere else. Sadly, though, I can't remember where I first read it.

[henry]

James, headline scanners who will get the prog message that evil right wingers are very dangerous, Sharia implementing jihadis less so. Meanwhile the garbled article gives cover to the propaganda by poorly arguing something fair.

[narciso]

it's Bloomberg, James, don't try to figure it out,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3145225/100-extremists-year-lecture-universities-Fanatics-given-platform-spread-hatred-West-despite-ministers-demanding-crackdown-radicalism.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Spenser, Emerson and co, have discerned a similar network going back 20 years,

[James D]

henry @ 12:09

See, that makes sense to me. Especially considering McArdle's circle of friends includes half the staff of Vox...

[narciso]

the byline by Scott Shane, gitmo detainee apologist was all I needed to know.

[henry]

And the truly absurd (hat tip a lurking unit in Chicago):

https://twitter.com/senatorshoshana/status/616640438590664704/photo/1

The American Revolution was a mistake. per McArdle's friends at Vox.

[narciso]

crimethink must be stamped out,

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2015/07/02/serta-to-stop-trump-mattress-line-over-comments-about-illegal-immigrants/

for the future, though, it would be good is the statements were not so redolent of shoe leather's taste,

[narciso]

the other phantom panic:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/02/department-of-education-still-standing-by-comments-official-made-in-debunked-rolling-stone-article/

[narciso]

welp that's not really surprising, israel is considered the enemy,

http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-blasts-obama-for-opening-an-embassy-in-cuba-but-not-one-in-jerusalem-audio/

[Buckeye]

Praying that Soros wakes up tomorrow with a serious case of rigor mortis.

Of course if someone was successful in helping him die in a fire, I wouldn't lose sleep over that crime.

[maryrose]

Works is the only thing propping Hillary up
On Fox Business Lanny Davis was spinning so fast it made me dizzy
According to that Clinton sycophant Hil hates WallStreet and all their big bad money
More lies

[maryrose]

Should be Soros

[narciso]

I imagine Lanny's brief is much the same:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/07/01/e-mails-show-whats-behind-cnn-political-analysis-talking-points/?dg

[narciso]

about three quarter down the page:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/07/01/e-mails-show-whats-behind-cnn-political-analysis-talking-points/?dg

[narciso]

actually it's funded by the google bros, bernie Schwartz of Loral, all the usual suspects,

[narciso]

sorry about that, flathead messes with the algorithm:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=589

[Thomas Collins]

I think McArdle's audience for her critique of the NY Times piece is persuadable feelers who think they're intellectuals. I'm not inclined to second guess her writing style. Perhaps she will fail in persuading, but I can't think of a better way to attempt to persuade feelers who think they're intellectuals. Telling them they're idiots for not focusing on the extent of resources around the world devoted to addressing jihadism isn't going to persuade them.

[Tom Bowler]

QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS: The fool who posted that he was "putting wings on pigs" and then drove from Baltimore to NYC to gun down two police officers is not presented in this study as an example of ideologically motivated domestic terror. Why not? I can only guess.

If they did classify that one as ideological, I suppose they would have said the fool was right wing. You know, like Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Thomas Collins]

Great to see you checking in, Tom Bowler. I love the Oswald analogy. Brings backs memories of the attempts to paint Oswald as a rightie extremist.

[Buckeye]

Markets taking a dump before the long weekend.

Traders must not of seen the wonderful jobs numbers DuDa.

[Captain Hate]

So nobody wants to talk about Zippy's new overtime regulations as a way to move the economy into uncharted levels of prosperity? Tammy Bruce and the Fox Bidness people did:

http://tammybruce.com/2015/07/videos-tammy-on-fox-discussing-greece-and-obamas-proposed-overtime-pay-expansion.html

Carter was Milton Friedman compared to this lazy imbecile.

[narciso]

well it will certainly go voom, now captain

[Captain Hate]

about three quarter down the page

It's always better to read what teh Forehead is yammering about rather than risk a retinal scorching from the studio lights being amplified off that broad expanse.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

What is the acronym for intentionally loading up on garbage on the front end for the purpose of expelling just the right kind of garbage on the back end?

How about "GAG ME"?

Garbage Aggregated Grandly = Manure Expelled

[narciso]

it was a Discover the Networks link, I'm surprised he had to be told what to squawk about Red Queen's
chancellorship

[Miss Marple]

Zippy proposes things which sound good to those affected.

A lot of lower-level managers get stuck with working 50+ hour weeks with little compensation, especially when compared to union underlings.

Mandating paying them overtime is not a solution, however.

When I worked for the coal company years ago, they had a problem with people not wanting to leave the union to take supervisory jobs. So they added some other incentives like free tuition for courses, the same level of medical coverage as the union, bonuses, etc.

Each industry is different and one size doesn't fit all, but Obama doesn't care about that. This is just something to propose in order to make himself look good and Republicans look like meanies.

[Captain Hate]

Steven Hayes:

One week before the June 30 deadline for a deal with Iran, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei made a series of demands about the final terms. Among them: He called for an immediate end to all United Nations Security Council and U.S. economic sanctions on Iran; he said Iranian military sites would not be subject to international inspections; he declared that Iran would not abide a long-term freeze on nuclear research; and he ruled out interviews with individuals associated with Iran’s nuclear program as part of any enforcement plan.

The New York Times headline read "Iran's Supreme Leader, Khamenei, Seems to Pull Back on Nuclear Talks." That’s one explanation. The more likely one: Khamenei understands that Barack Obama is desperate for this deal and will agree to just about anything to make it a reality. In private remarks caught on tape, top White House foreign policy adviser Ben Rhodes likened the Iran deal to Obamacare in its importance to the administration. And on April 2, the president held a press conference to celebrate the preliminary "historic understanding with Iran" that, he said, was "a good deal, a deal that meets our core objectives."

But the impending deal is not a good one. It legitimizes a rogue state, shifts regional power to the world’' most aggressive state sponsor of terror, strengthens the mullahs’ hold on power, and guides Iran to nuclear threshold status. Those are not our "core objectives." They are Iran's.

Ewok

And here's why I not only quit the GOP but now cheer its coming demise: The GOP, thinking it was clever, which it is not, has already approved this treaty, whatever it turns out to be.

Corker proposed it, but then they all went along with it. Including our Senatorial presidential candidates.

This piece of shit, whatever it turns out to be, is already US law.

Corker + lamppost + rope. Some assembly required.

[Captain Hate]

Zippy proposes things which sound good to those affected.

He has the economic knowledge of a seventh grader who has been moved along to that level out of sheer laziness of his teachers and that none of them want to deal with the lazy turd again. This is part and parcel of that dunce not understanding what auto insurance covered and dropping that bomb of idiocy in a national telecast, upon which his MFM enablers made no comment.

[narciso]

signs of intelligence life out there:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/02/cnn-shock-poll-big-majority-think-confederate-flag-symbol-of-heritage-not-racism/

[Old Lurker]

Cap'n,

We have a new puppy and an 16 month old grandson.

Neither of them speaks. Nor are they educated in anything.

Both get everything they want, when they want it.

[Captain Hate]

How old is your pup, OL? Teddy is 11 weeks; I'd forgotten how much *fun* it is to housetrain a dog.

[narciso]

Stavros seems to have realized he went off the cliff, and is hanging to the question mark like Wile E Coyote, I don't he can get back to land though,

[Thomas Collins]

Wait a minute! If the cartoon character Zippy achieved real life status and became POTUS, he would be a better bargainer with Khameinei than Obama!

[James D]

CH,

No doubt. But you wouldn't give them control of nuclear weapons, either.

[James D]

Sorry, I meant OL, not CH!

[Miss Marple]

narciso,

Signal to the dems that their strategy needs to be re-tooled. Otherwise, they would have deep-sixed the poll. Printing it tells the dems, "Hey guys, it's backfiring."

[Miss Marple]

http://www.webb2016.com/jim-webb-announces-candidacy-for-president/

This should be interesting. At least he doesn't hate the military.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

The racial divide in that CNN poll is disappointing. Shocking that it exists with a post racial President doing so much to bridge the gap.

[narciso]

maybe he's upset about harold taking his role in the new star trek,

http://twitchy.com/2015/07/02/will-these-liberal-pols-be-asked-if-they-agree-with-dem-supporter-george-takei-were-waiting/

[narciso]

'mission accomplished' now they've even moved on to the duke boys, more then they expected,

[narciso]

reason why it's Morning Joke,

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/the-sharpton-angle.php

Silva went on to Lauer and the Cycle, to promote his new book,

[Captain Hate]

maybe he's upset about harold taking his role in the new star trek,

I'm sure Princess Chelsea is ordering one of her gazillion assistants to write out one of those check thingies to that homo Star Trek guy and sadly return his Rodhambucks.

[daddy]

Jane: attack on the 4th?

Nope. The attack is the threat of an attack on the 4th. Keeping vigilant is tiring and debilitating.

The UK Daily Mail posts this pic with the attached header:

On edge: The FBI is setting up command centers at each of its 56 field offices across the country ahead of the July 4th weekend over fears of a possible ISIS-inspired terrorist attack

[Jack is Back!]

Back in the day, we had an old saw: You work overtime for promotions and regular time for your pay.

Ever since McVeigh and to some extent the Branch Davidian fiasco in Waco, the Prog media (and that represents over 75% of all media) are convinced that we are at risk from Right Wing Extremism. I believe faux rights organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Human Rights Council do nothing but churn out all the fake proproganda to promote that visiion.

Not suprising an intellectually challenged McArdle would pick up a NYT piece of "dog's breakfast" and miss the point but carry the line.

[Jack is Back!]

....Human Rights Campaign....

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

--He has the economic knowledge of a seventh grader...--

Hey! Most seventh graders could run a lemonade stand.
Could Barry?

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

--jim-webb-announces-candidacy-for-president--

If they want to fit his head and her calves in the same venue they're going to have to debate in the Superdome.

[squaredance]

Well, Iggy, if they did that Hillary just might actually sell some tickets.

[narciso]

zippy's just full of insights:

http://www.weaselzippers.us/228033-obama-says-police-officers-should-adopt-new-soft-look-uniforms-sheriffs-association-head-mocks/

[rse]

http://pjmedia.com/davidsteinberg/exclusive-a-shocking-admission-comes-from-within-darin-lahoods-disillusioned-campaign-about-il-gop-governor-bruce-rauner-directing-the-race/ indicates a level of corruption that just reeks of desperation.

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

Wretchard points out there is a crescent in crisis from Ukraine through Turkey, the ME, North Africa and of course Greece.

Meanwhile Barry paints a rainbow on the WH and blocks our true enemies, the Redskins from building a stadium.

[Buckeye]

Actually, the thought of Webb debating Shrillary has some appeal.

He will give her a much bigger headache, and is far more likely to call her out than Bernie.

May do more than what any Repub can do to expose her.

[Thomas Collins]

Eric in Boise may have the one liner of the day locked up, but CHMI's 3:12 PM is the leader going into the turn for the two liner of the day.

[daddy]

FOX News (Shep) reporting on an Oregon Program (OreGo) set up by the Oregon Dept of Transportation that installs some device on one's car and that then charges people per every mile they drive.

FOX Reporter Dan Springer: A small GPS device is put in their car...It will track where the car goes and charge the drivers Credit card a penny and a half for every mile traveled...The whole point is to get more money than the Gas Taxes currently bring in, to keep up with Road and Bridge maintenance. With more hybrids and electric cars on the road Gas Tax Revenue has been flat.

Any of you guys believe that that's "The Whole Point"?

[Stephanie]

For the Ahia contingent:

https://twitter.com/jigosdeck/status/616602095429517312

[Buckeye]

daddy

Is it now a requirement for licensing the vehicle in Oregon?

[MarkO]

Some years ago, and I don't have the energy or desire to look it up, I predicted that Obama's strategy with Iran was containment, and that Iran would certainly have the Bomb.

His actions are treasonous and he is worse than FDR, Wilson and that piker, Carter.

Boom.

[maryrose]

daddy
How dare anyone put anything on your car and try to track your mileage
It is Orwells world for sure

[Miss Marple]

I pulled this out of that Wretchard article that Ignatz linked above:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article4484459.ece

Britain considering forming a Dad's Army of retired marksmen to combat ISIS in case of a terror attack in britain.

[Porchlight]

Well, Jim Webb enters the ring. I admit I'm surprised and encouraged. Any Dem challenge to Herself at this point has to be viewed as a sign of her growing weakness.

[Jack is Back!]

Anyone think Oregon will be the first and only state to do this? Hello, California and Washington and here on the east coast, NY, NJ, CT, RI, MA, VT, maybe NH and ME. Definitiely MD.

Blue Hells are copy cats and its usually from something CA has done but now OR has given them the equivalent of a "tax and spend" boner.

[Thomas Collins]

See below for a link to an interesting piece arguing that King v. Burwell and Michigan v. EPA may indicate that SCOTUS is reasserting what most people of common sense think should be the case: Courts, not administrative agencies, interpret the law.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/07/philip-hamburger-chevrons-last-days.php

I am in the process of reading Professor Hamburger's book. If you're a fan of English history, I think you'll like it even if you're not a fan of the rules of administrative law.

[Jack is Back!]

I love the headline:

Mr. Sulu Set Phasers to Racists

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/02/mr-sulu-set-phasers-to-racist/

[Eric in Boise]

Any of you guys believe that that's "The Whole Point"?

Not really, because the way our betters solved the problem here is by hitting us with a seven cent per gallon gas tax increase that took effect this week.

You're welcome, peasants.

[Old Lurker]

6 month rescue mutt, Cap'n. Now a sibling for our 6 y.o. other rescue mutt.

Supposed to be housebroken but when we came to Nantucket she forgot all that. She is very quiet and likes to go find a remote room to do her business, and I am getting tired of going on poop patrol.

All was doable until YL came with Baby Max and now Mrs. OL and I comment each night when we go to bed that we now know what getting old means. But YL is leaving the kid with us so they can go to a wedding someplace this weekend, so it is not going to be pretty around here this weekend!

But I will say I am being cured of my OCD "everything in its place" problem, as well as any sense that I am in control of, well, ANYTHING!

We love it.

Puppy class starts Monday and the Invisible Fence guy just left so I have hopes that will help. (At home we are completely fenced and gated so the dogs have the run of the place, but Nantucket does not allow that sort of thing and there are maybe three dogs for every square foot and as many children, bunnies and deer so we are hoping the Invisible Fence will help us out. Stay tuned.)

[Porchlight]

OL, you can relax. Mrs. OL has been in control all along. :)

[Cispigmented Heteronormative Microagressive Ignatz]

--the Invisible Fence guy just left--

Now if you could just find an Invisible Poop guy you'd be set.

[James D.]

JiB, you're absolutely right.

If the imposition of a GPS on everyone's car (and thus the requirement to provide the government with a record of all one's movements at all times) doesn't rouse a mass movement of protest and disobedience, then the country really and truly lost for good.

[Jack is Back!]

OL,

Did the fence guy work with the dogs? If not, you need to walk them with collars on to the flags (hope he left the flags up) and make them undsrstand not to get to close to the flags. They'll learn, pronto.

The answer to puppy poop in the house is walking them every 2 hours. Its a PITA but they need to know they do their business outside. I have one of those Staples kind of bells that I would ring everytime we went out. Pretty soon the beagles would start to ring the bell to let me know they had to go out.

Its all better than having to clean up with Nature's Miracle.

[maryrose]

Hope you are going to have a wonderful time with Baby Max and the new pup
Those two will keep you young and hopping
How did they do on the ferry ride

[Frau Steingehirn]

"Its all better than having to clean up with Nature's Miracle."

Sounds like a slogan for the 2016 election.