If It's Thursday

I think I can see the weekend from here. That is the weekend out there on the horizon, isn't it?

You know what Thursday and Saturday have in common? They are each spelled with 8 letters.  

You know what makes them different? HA.

 

Link to Last Page of Thread.

Comments

[sbwaters]

I went to the last page and it didn't go anywhere.

[James D]

First?

[Jack is Back!]

So, King Salman of the Sand Box is visting Bozo next week. I wonder why?

[Daddy on the new iPhone]

Momma and ZoBob just left for the state fair so I am off with the pups on a 2nd rare morning dog walk beautiful day and momma says she will bring me back a turkey leg from the Fair

[Porchlight]

Happy birthday, Glenda! Sorry I missed it in the last thread...

[Miss Marple]

Jack, It will be interesting to see the reaction between the two.

Since this wasn't a pre-arranged visit, I imagine the smack-down will be applied regarding Iran.

[Jack is Back!]

This is for Beasts when he checks in. 3 Pond Farm is across the road from Atlantic Golf Club. Ed Gordon's estate. When I played it (it has it's own yardage book) he had it for sale for $65 million. It may be more today. But think about the maintenance. The course alone is $2 million a year. Its acually 6 holes with 3 different tee boxes and looks at different locations to give you the 18. Rees Jones designed it and he lives across the road at Atlantic.

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/hamptons/sales/0036492

[Extraneus]

Don't we already know the Dems will filibuster the Iran non-support resolution?

[lyle]

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/stock-market-crash-foretells-third-coming-of-bush-t16893.html

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

RIP Darryl "Chocolate Thunder" Dawkins.

[Dave (in MA)]

The Chainsmoking Orange Crybaby called Trump a "Jackass".

I can't imagine that Trump isn't pleased.

[lyle]

http://dailycaller.com/2015/08/27/john-boehner-calls-ted-cruz-a-jackass-at-fundraiser/

[Rick Ballard]

Porchlight,

Not only did the majority of Texas chicks vote for Cruz in the general, they voted for him in the primary against GOPe Dewhurst as well. The aftermath of the MFM Trump Pump is going to leave Cruz sitting fairly well. I don't believe the blowhard is going to have a lasting effect but he's certainly hobbling the mushmouths here at the outset.

[Jack is Back!]

CH,

Didn't he come out of High School? One of the first?

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Happy hour must start pretty early for OrangeDrank.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

I think he was the first, JiB.

[Beasts of England]

I'm just a few million short after the market correction, JiB. Damn it!!

[Daddy on the new iPhone]

Yay. Rush In hour 2 on an anti Jeb rant for being so obtuse as to think that siding with reporters like Ramos who want to destroy the Republican Party is a good strategy.

About time he called out Jeb as a moron.

Plus Rush has big praise for mark Kevin's latest book. Nice to see these guys getting on the same page

[Porchlight]

Rick,

Texas isn't representative, of course, but it wasn't even close. We'll just have to see. I'm enjoying the ride so far.

[lyle]

What?? I don't believe it, Beasts. Word on the Street was you went short S&P futures last Thursday (BIG!) and covered Monday afternoon!

[lyle]

This just in:

WhoreHay Ramos' face is a great candidate for Backpfeifengesicht.

I'm feeling multi-culti today.

[Jack is Back!]

daddy means Mark Levin's book, BTW.

[Daddy on the new iPhone]

Thanks jack. Damn iPhone grrrrrrrr

And why won't people simply say to ramos's face and say he was lying when ramos says he was asking a question. Play the clip, make him watch it, then call him to his face a liar when he lies and says he was asking a question grrrrrrrr

Later

[rse]

So Beasts, that was not you bidding on those gulf-front Alys lots that came up about two weeks ago?

[GMax]

And a barrel of WTI oil is now up on the day a whopping 10.4%!!!

No disruption of supply anyplace I can detect. Just got oversold and corrected or did I miss some very important world news?

[lyle]

Just got oversold and corrected or did I miss some very important world news?

Zero today suspended all domestic oil production by EO, GMax.

[Beasts of England]

No short S&P. No Alys Beach. :(

[GMax]

waterfront lots in Alys Beach? Did they sell? Should have been quite easy to move them in this market...

[Miss Marple]

lyle, You are kidding, aren;t you?

GMax, maybe it has to do with the Saudis, king coming here next week.

[GMax]

WTI jumping around a bit, currently only up 9% for the day, which normally a movement of that magnitude would have big news attached. I am going to go look at Brent and see if its similar...

[Jack is Back!]

I am convinced more and more that Trump reminds me of Chauncey Gardner. If you read this National Journal article by Andy Kroll, I think you'll see what I mean.

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/hamptons/sales/0036492

Everything is illiterate simplistic gobbledy-gook but it resonates as rational reasoning with some people. We are hanging on every word as if no one has ever explained it all like this.

[GMax]

Brent is the same magnitude, biggest one day gain since 2009 blares one headline. But I may have found the clue. Maduro has asked for an emergency meeting of OPEC. I wonder if the TP has even run out in the Presidential Palace!

[lyle]

Yes, of course, Miss M. But it speaks volumes that in the days of King Precious, that statement could be construed as at least possible, doesn't it?

[lyle]

No short S&P. No Alys Beach. :(

Bummer, dude.

[Porchlight]

Hahahahaha

[Porchlight]

Sorry for the big image...will find a smaller one if I can. Right click to embiggen.

[lyle]

http://spectator.org/articles/63899/jorge-ramos-gets-trumped

Lord quotes Ruben Navarrette Jr. writing for CNN:

And yet, even with all the progress and openness in Mexico over the past few years, there is still one subject that no one talks about, one that is still off-limits: race.

The enduring taboo subject is skin color, whether an individual's complexion betrays an allegiance to the Spanish who conquered the Aztec empire in 1521 or the Aztecs who were conquered. It's no exaggeration to say that, in this country and especially in this city, the best, highest-paying, most important jobs often seem to go to those who, in addition to having the best education and the strongest connections, have the lightest skin.…

Prejudice kills progress.

Mr. Lord continues:

Now let’s get back to Jorge Ramos. The blue-eyed, light-skinned Ramos — let’s be candid he is a European Mexican — is the epitome of what Navarrete is saying...

[rse]

Red and hubby were down there about two weeks ago and said 1st came up and sold for $4 million. Next slightly bigger for $5 immediately, and 3rd for $6 million. Apparently all the well-known architects working down that way are booked and not taking new business unless willing to wait more than a year to even start on plans.

[GMax]

So Quinny is going to get a blast from the Clinton Crime Family methinks. Doing a word association poll on the Red Witch and then publishing the results of the top 3 words that came to mind of the surveyed, to wit:

LIAR, DISHONEST, UNTRUSTWORTHY

Democrats you have yourself one hell of a frontrunner there. Will she look good in prison stripes? LOL

[Dave (in MA)]

The Chainsmoking Orange Crybaby called Trump a "Jackass".

I can't imagine that Trump isn't pleased.

Cruz, dummy.

[Stephanie]

I don't see any women having issues with Trump. Most are of the opinion that he is driving home what Trump is saying just as forcefully but with more substance and like the ball boy at the driving range, hoovering up the balls and driving them past the 350 yd. flag. He's been compared favorably to Fiorina in compactness of words and volumes of substance.

Most on my TL feed at FB have the race like this:

Trump/Cruz/Carson

Cruz/Trump/Carson

Cruz/Walker/Trump

Most of those on the Trump campaign pages are Trump first, Cruz second. Even those on the Cruz campaign pages are happy with either T/C or C/T.

Many are very dissatisfied with the responses Walker has given since the debate. He has walked back on several issues and has been 'lackluster' ala Bush according to them. I haven't seen as much posted about Walker, but I see what others post and have been personally underwhelmed as well.

I still think Trump won't get the nod and will throw his support to Cruz and that will seal the deal.

If Trump does get the nod, most are betting on Cruz as VP and Trump likely to hang around for at most one term with Cruz running as his successor.

That's the temp of the women voters I interact with and see posting on FB. Grain of salt and all that, of course.

[Stephanie]

And then there's this:

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/ed-klein-bernie-sanders-run-independent/2015/08/25/id/671805/

Dems might wanna watch out putting all their eggs in any basket to piss off Sanders!

[Neo]

Darryl Dawkins (AKA "Chocolate Thunder"), known for his thunderous dunks and flamboyant nickname, has died.

The Lehigh County Coroner's Office confirmed that Dawkins died today. Following his professional playing career, Dawkins made his home in the Lehigh Valley.

The 58-year-old made history in 1975, when he became the first player ever drafted directly from high school to the NBA. The Orlando native played 15 seasons in the NBA, spending the majority of his career with the Philadelphia 76ers and the New Jersey Nets.

[henry]

Four way cage match: sanders, Biden, Trump, Jeb.

Scary.

[Dave (in MA)]

Would Jeb wear a Mexican wrestling mask?

[Stephanie]

Put it on PPV and retire the debt!

My money is on the younger whippersnappers. And it won't be Jeb, btw, no way no how. If Trump were to go 4th party their already fragile coalition with the grassroots will collapse.. to say nothing of those big $$ guys supporting Cruz and others that will NOT donate to a Jeb candidacy.

[GMax]

I am starting to change my views on Trump. He is not my candidate and will not be in the Primary, but I think the pundits have been universally wrong about him about almost everything so far. The meme currently going around is that he does not have the support at the levels being measured by polls as there are too many folks certain to vote in the primary.

My thought is after watching the reaction of some diehard supporters to any slights, that this too may be wrong. He is pulling in some folks who have not exercised their voting franchise in awhile, many because they thought it did not matter. If I am right, Trump might astound the pundits once again, especially if he is matched against the LIAR to end all LIARS in the general.

[Neo]

The Hill: Why Bernie Sanders won’t take the gloves off against Hillary

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) will “never” run attack ads against Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, a top adviser to the liberal firebrand told The Hill.

Sound like Sanders has all of John McCain's useless consultants

[GMax]

Chocolate Thunder had the memorable quote:

"Fo, Fo, Fo..."

Anyone know what he was answering?

[Stephanie]

That is what I'm seeing gmax... many who have been out of politics and not voting are wandering back in the door. Also, many blacks who have wandered off the dem plantation and are smelling what the Donald is shoveling are making some noises. Was astounded by the cashier at Lowe's the other day making complimentary remarks about Trump after I said something about needing to be a Trump to pay for maintenance on the house.

[Buckeye]

40 years ago I took a sales training class from David Sandler when he was still teaching these classes himself. I'm pretty sure he has passed by now, but he was a very interesting guy who really understood the psychology of human behavior.

The thing I remember most from his class was that more than 90% of "buying" decisions are emotional. Logic or rational thought has nothing to do with the ultimate choice.

My observation since is that he was correct, we just aren't very good at identifying the specific emotion that drives the decision, either in ourselves or in other people. The ability to identify these emotions are what separates the good salespeople from the mediocre.

The people who hang out here are the other 10%, at least when it comes to analyzing politicians and making rational informed decisions when pulling the lever. But if we think that the wisdom of our preferences will be obvious to everyone we will be sorely disappointed.

90+% of the people will pull the lever emotionally, and whomever does the best job of identifying and appealing to these emotions will win.

I think Trump understands this even better than David Sandler did.

[Miss Marple]

Heading out to the auction, after stopping by the post office. This looks to be a good auction. Will check in from my iPad ifthere's a lull.

Otherwise, will see you all later tonight.

BTU closed at 2.28. Yay, me!

[henry]

His prediction for a Sixers title run... Although I thought that was Moses Malone. (Saw both at the Spectrum).

[maryrose]

Steph
Some good statements regarding the state of the race
Yes Gmax dishonest was the word I was looking for to describe Hillary in the other thread

[Frau Edith Steingehirn]

lyle -
Ramos and his "Backpfeifengesicht"

All I can say is "Perfekt und Akzentfrei."

[Milli Vinilli]

"I don't believe the blowhard is going to have a lasting effect"

Keep dreaming, Ricky "Martin" Ballard

[lyle]

Thanks, Frau! High praise, indeed!

[lyle]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/08/27/trumps_a_narcissist_whats_his_supporters_excuse_127895.html

Zero is a narcissist. What are his supporters' excuse?

[Extraneus]

Good job, Miss M. Up over 49% today.

[Extraneus]

3rd highest gain on the board, I think.

[lyle]

Allahpundit makes some good points:

Turns out the GOP leadership hates grassroots favorites just as much as the grassroots hates the GOP leadership. Dare we assume that Boehner also holds Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh in low regard?

Two things here. One: It’s going to be high-larious watching Boehner and McConnell react next spring if Ben Domenech and I are right and Ted Cruz emerges from the smoke as the GOP’s nominee. I think Boehner could tolerate President Hillary just fine, but the reality of President Cruz might send him into retirement. If you’re a Boehner-hater, there’s another reason to back Cruz in the primaries. Two: Arguably the worst thing about this is its lack of strategic foresight, not the insult itself. An attack on Cruz from the seat of establishment power will only help him among populist voters. If this blows up in media, it may even galvanize conservative support in the House for another crack at Mark Meadows’s resolution to remove Boehner as Speaker, a measure that’d be unlikely to succeed but could embarrass Boehner depending upon how many votes it draws. How is it worth taking a personal shot at Cruz when that’s the price? No wonder this guy routinely gets rolled by Obama and Reid.

[maryrose]

Obama approval rating has been tanking the last couple of weeks
Even on vacation he is despised and considered lame

[GUS]

GMAX fukwads like WHORE GAY RAMOS run their cake holes without fear of being CHALLENGED.
OrangeDrunk errrrrr drank, isn't going to challenge WHORE GAY or those WISE LATINA/LATINO du jour. Trump doesn't play nice with lying RACIST MF'ERS.

[maryrose]

Boehner has some plan up his sleeve wrt Cruz
I am afraid he thinks Cruz will go off the reservation during debt ceiling talks
Also Cruz and Cotton are the Senate point men for opposition to the Iran deal

[Try Hang Gliding]

Fo Fo Fo was Moses Malone. Although they did sweep the first and and final rounds they lost one in the conference final.

[Porchlight]

It's way too early for predictions. McCain looked like toast in summer 2007. As people drop out - and some are going to have to fairly soon - the race will change.

All I ask at this point is that my preferred candidate/s can hang in there until the field thins considerably.

[GUS]

The Hill: Why Bernie Sanders won’t take the gloves off against Hillary

Because SANDERS is.........CHICKEN!!!

[GUS]

Why is the MFM not reporting the RACIAL ANGLE of VESTER FLANAGANS' murderous spree???

We all know the answer.

[Pieirrot]

I am starting to change my views on Trump.

Gmax, I think you are speaking for many (me included).

[GUS]

VESTER FLANAGAN .....LONE WOLF.

[narciso]

The huntress was interviewing Mark meadows on her one america show, yesterday.

[GMax]

No Gus. That was a workplace accident. Despite being outside, and he was fired two years before etc etc etc...

[Frau Edith Steingehirn]

and "disgruntled employee", GUS. My local newsette did not give the history of Flanagan's repeated legal actions against other media businesses across the fruited plain.
I can image that Vester Flanagan SR. is/would be happy that Junior used a stage name.

[GMax]

Imagine my surprise. The ultimate insider, Cantor wants to endorse the third in line of a political dynasty. Who cares what Eric Cantor thinks anyway?

[narciso]

Well no candidate will be stupid enough to rely on public financing like maverick did.

[GUS]

Eric Cantor is dead to me. So is Weeping Orange Boner.

[maryrose]

Frau
One of the Black Lives Matters crony Vester shows by his actions that to him no lives matter

[maryrose]

Cantor is as clueless about Jeb as he was about himself

[GMax]

An early tell on the 2016 election?

Federal Election Commission reports tell a disappointing story for the party: The DNC collected $36.5 million in the first six months of the year and had almost no money in special accounts, including one designated for its convention. It had about $7.6 million in available cash and $6.2 million in debts and loans.

The Republican National Committee, coming out of years in the red, posted $63 million in receipts through June, leaving it with $16.7 million cash on hand and $1.8 million in debts and loans. Party fundraising dominance has flipped: At this point before the 2012 election, the DNC was outpacing the RNC.

[Extraneus]

Gotta go with AllahPundit. Boehner is a fool to go after Cruz.

[Stephanie]

For beasts:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/at-auburn-athletics-and-academics-collide-1440635278

[Extraneus]

Here's another thoughtful analysis by AllahPundit.

Synergy: Ted Cruz invites Donald Trump to speak at D.C. rally to stop the Iran deal

Actually, the Daily Beast reported that Cruz was invited by Trump to join his photo op at the border, which is … odd. Everyone understands why Cruz has been hugging Trump, because he thinks he’ll inherit Trump’s anti-establishment voters eventually. According to a GOP strategist who’s “familiar with” Cruz’s thinking, “Cruz knows full well that Trump is a buffoon and is bad for conservatism. But he applauds him because it theoretically is good for Ted.” I’m not sure why Trump would hug Cruz back, though. Presumably he thinks he’ll pick up some of Cruz’s conservative credibility by association, but when Trump is asked about why he goes easy on Cruz, that’s not the reason he gives. What he says is that he’s nice to Cruz because Cruz is nice to him, a dim alpha-male approach to political alliances (i.e. “don’t mess with me or I’ll mess with you”). The smart play to impress conservatives who are leery of Trump would be to say that he admires Cruz for being the most staunchly conservative candidate in the race. Apart from Trump himself, of course.

...

They’re both already eyeing a confrontation down the road, though. Said Cruz to National Journal, with characteristic tact, “There will come a time as the campaign moves forward when [emphasizing] additional policy differences may well be merited. I don’t believe we’re in that phase of the campaign.” Said Trump to CNN, with characteristic bluntness, “I may have to [hit Cruz] if he starts getting really close. I may have to.”

[danoso]

Driving to Wisconsin this week I had the Sirius country station on from the 2000's (Y2Country or something like that). Played lots of Dixie Chicks, which got me to thinking. Those girls went out of their way to piss off their fan base (Ok it was mostly the dopey lead singer). So country fans went elsewhere. Seems like the GOP establishment isn't thrilled with us nowadays either. We should be more compliant and appreciative of their efforts. Yeah, good luck with that.

Dixie Chicks are no more, now that I think of it.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

You would think Cantor would be smart enough to urge all his GOPe brethren ixnay on the amnesty crap. But per Williamson and his ilk, the Trump supporters are the idiots.

[GMax]

Natalie Maines will one day be taught about in B School on case study of not knowing your customer...

[Stephanie]

The most recent New Hampshire poll (PPP) asked everyone who their second choice was.

Among Trump voters, Cruz and Carson were the top two vote getters as 2nd choices.

[GUS]

Do you think the PATHETIC JOHNNY BONER will call out RODHAM??

Nah, he's ball-less.

"Hillary: My Republican Opponents Treat Women Just Like Terrorists Do"

[GMax]

Well Allah can wonder all he wants. I think its pretty simple, the two men are running insurgent campaigns against the entrenched meritocracy. Trump sees an ally in the Senate like Sessions, and Cruz gets some attention by being around the guy sucking up all the oxygen.

And they seem to like each other. Is it hard? Think Boehner will get an invite to speak?

[Miss Marple]

I suppose Cruz could pick up Trump's supporters if trump withdraws and actively backs Cruz.

However, I think he won't be interested if he isn't the candidate.

So then all of those people who are following Trump will be left looking at choices which seem sort of drab; even Cruz will seem sort of plain vanilla.

Could get interesting.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

The Ditzy Slits weren't exactly marketing jeanyuses when it came to alienating their fan base. In addition to making political asses out of themselves, they also sicced ambulance chasers on some fans who committed the grievous sins of putting some of their out of print stuff online for people to enjoy. Yes it's a copyright violation but the fans weren't trying to make money off it.

Considering how country is in general on the conservative side of the entertainment spectrum and family values oriented, the Slits were really dumb.

[Stephanie]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/27/ted-cruz-and-donald-trump-planning-a-joint-appearance-to-protest-the-iran-deal/?postshare=7631440708434037

More...

Donald Trump revealed Thursday that he’s been coordinating with Ted Cruz for a joint appearance at an event opposing the Iran deal in Washington.

“We are talking to Ted Cruz, who is a friend of mine and a good guy, about doing something very big over the next two weeks in Washington,” the billionaire businessman said after a rally in South Carolina. “It’s essentially a protest against the totally incompetent deal that we’re making with Iran.”

A spokeswoman for the Texas senator said Cruz invited Trump to join him on the Capitol grounds “to call on members of Congress to defeat the catastrophic deal that the Obama Administration has struck with the Islamic Republic of Iran.”

The spokeswoman, Catherine Frazier, said the event will be co-sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots, the Center for Security Policy and the Zionist Organization of America.

Morton Klein, the president of the Zionist Organization of America, said the rally will take place Sept. 9.

More than any other Republican in the race, the Texas senator has steadfastly avoided publicly criticizing Trump, even after he shot to the top of the polls. As a litany of others trashed The Donald for his comments about Mexican immigrants and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Cruz carefully avoided any harsh words.

The Texan even traveled to Trump’s New York office last month to pay his respects, invite Trump to the U.S-Mexico border and build the rapport, hoping that he can eventually peel away some of the mogul’s support.

[Buckeye]

Huma "Vince Foster" Abedin would be wise to secure her own protection and stay out of parks.

[Beasts of England]

Hilarious, Steph! Thanks for the link! :)

[Frau Kuckkucksei]

These kids are not in Lake Wobegon:

Since the Minnesota Department of Health and Human Services (DHS) fully-staffed their new child care fraud investigative unit in the spring of 2014, they’ve worked with the FBI to shutter daycare centers around the state. Of the cases that have hit the news since then, all have involved Somali-run businesses.

There's no teat like a gigantic, stupid American public teat:

Khadra Abdisafad Hirsi, 47, was the director and co-owner of Ace Daycare Center in Eden Prairie. In February, Hirsi pleaded guilty to knowingly submitting fraudulent claims to the state of Minnesota’s Child Care Assistance Program. From November of 2011-May of 2013, Hrisi inflated the number of children using her daycare’s services and fraudulently obtained $300,000 in payments from the state of Minnesota and the U.S. Departments of Health and Human Services. Earlier this month Hirsi was sentenced to one year and one day in federal prison and ordered to pay $300,000 in restitution.

Hirsi, who also goes by the name of Khadra Duale, was employed by the City of Eden Prairie as a part-time community services technician, also known as the immigrant liaison, from October 2003-September 2011, she was also part-time staff at the Eden Prairie community center. Hirsi was paid $284,944 in salary and $35,806 in health and dental benefits by the city during that time.

The article ends by stating that this might all be a coincidence.

P.S. Hirsi and her husband, formerly called "leaders in the Somali community," have filed for bankruptcy. Is that a Guinness record of some kind?

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Can you imagine the quivering of the mashed potatoes in Lurch's lantern jaw when Trump calls his work "totally incompetent"?

[Buckeye]

Have we seen Lurch cry yet??

[Pieirrot]

… many blacks who have wandered off the dem plantation and are smelling what the Donald is shoveling are making some noises …

Stephanie … I don’t think the GOPe realizes the opportunity that Trump is giving the Republican party to cut into the black vote. Illegal immigration is a very big deal for blacks. They are keenly aware that millions of blue collar jobs that blacks could and did successfully hold have been taken by the illegals. And now, for the first time, someone believable is talking about building a wall and sending the illegals back to Mexico. This is dynamite.

Of course, if Trump maintains his lead, it won’t matter what the GOPe realizes

[Stephanie]

Most of this is stuff we have seen before, but have we seen that first photograph?

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/obamas-occidental-college-transcripts-indonesian-national-islamic-religion/

[bunkerbuster]

Can you even imagine how entertaining and edifying it is for liberals to observe the popularity of Trump? He is living, flaming proof of the right's mountainous intellectual insecurity, bombastic stupidity and feckless narcissism.
We thought Sarah Palin was good at that, but Trump puts her to shame...

[Porchlight]

As others have said, the Chixie Dicks never understood and frankly never liked their audience.

This is endemic in the alt.country/y'allternative/Americana/whatever you want to call it genre of which my husband is nominally a member. The artists only like an idealized version of their music (where the Carter Family is sitting on the front porch drinking moonshine and strumming the mandolin and supporting Stalinists like Woody Guthrie) and an idealized version of their fans. The actual, icky, sometimes conservative fans, not so much.

This is an age-old phenomenon among artists of all kinds, but it really became obvious in the 60's folk era.