Fiorina And The Opinion-Checkers

Sweet young Ezra Klein pretends to fact-check Carly Fiorina and succeeds in reassuring us that she holds opinions not held on the left.

Carly Fiorina won the GOP debate, but fact checkers will have a field day

And with what will they have a field day? Ezra provides three instances:

She made everyone else on the stage — especially Trump — look unprepared. But she did it in part by playing fast and loose with the facts. Her barrage of specifics often obscured a curious detachment from reality.

Compare [Trump's haze on Syria] that with Fiorina's crisp, machine-gun specifics:

What I would do, immediately, is begin rebuilding the Sixth Fleet, I would begin rebuilding the missile defense program in Poland, I would conduct regular, aggressive military exercises in the Baltic states. I'd probably send a few thousand more troops into Germany. Vladimir Putin would get the message. By the way, the reason it is so critically important that every one of us know General Suleimani's name is because Russia is in Syria right now, because the head of the Quds force traveled to Russia and talked Vladimir Putin into aligning themselves with Iran and Syria to prop up Bashar al- Assad.

Eventually the fact-checker has his day with this:

Her answer on Russia, for instance, was bizarre.

The Sixth Fleet is already huge, and it's hard to say why adding to its capabilities would intimidate Putin — after all, America has enough nuclear weapons pointed at Russia to level the country thousands of times over. Her proposal for more military exercises in the Baltics seemed odd in light of the fact that President Obama is already conducting military exercises in the Baltics. And the US already has around 40,000 troops stationed in Germany, so it's hard to say what good "a few thousand" more would do. And pushing on a missile defense system in Poland is a very long-term solution to a very current problem. In total, Fiorina's laundry list of proposals sure sounded like a plan, but on inspection, it's hard to see why any of them would convince Putin to change course.

Hmm. So it is an established fact that expanding the Sixth Fleet can't enhance our clout in the Mid East? That the prospect of weapons in Poland tomorrow won't encourage Putin to talk today?

Has Ezra even read his provided link on our military exercises in the Baltics? We are basing weapons but not troops in the Baltics and we have had one exercise involving boots on the ground in the Baltics. Does that strike him, as a factual matter, as meeting Ms. Fiorina's "regular and aggressive" requirement? Is her sense of Obama as delivering too little too late and too weakly really "bizarre"?

Ezra also picked on immigration:

Ms. Fiorina] went on to say that Obama "could have chosen to do anything to solve this problem. Instead, he chose to do nothing. Why? because the Democrats don't want this issue solved."

...

Her immigration answer was also odd to anyone who knew the issue's recent history. It's true Obama didn't immediately push immigration reform when he took office, but it was his top priority after reelection, and he spent a solid year trying to make the Senate's comprehensive immigration-reform bill — the one crafted, in part, by Sen. Marco Rubio— into law. That legislation was stopped by Republicans in the House of Representatives, not by the Democrat in the White House. "Send me a comprehensive immigration reform bill in the next few months," Obama begged in 2013, "and I will sign it right away."

I think Ezra is on to something if his point is that Ms. Fiorina's future as an Obama apologist is not as bright as his own but please - is Ezra unaware that Obama has been criticized by many in his own party for ignoring immigration when the Dems had an unassailable majority and only turning to it after the Republican takeover of Congress in 2010? Her conclusion, shared by many, is that Obama's commitment to "solving" this issue is not as strong as his commitment to demagoguing it. Is it really a "fact" that we are wrong? This is news analysis from NBC, which I think is still read by the center left:

Back in 2008 or 2012, Republicans COULD argue that President Obama didn’t make immigration reform a priority, or that he took steps to stymie reform in when he was a senator. (And 2010, in particular, the one REAL moment of the Obama first term when immigration was possible, it was Senate Democratic leaders who weren’t ready to give up the politics of the issue. And the White House didn’t fight.) But now, no reasonable person can say that immigration’s death -- in 2013 and 2014 -- is anyone’s fault but House Republicans.

So many suspects in the killing of immigration reform! Wait'll Ezra gets ahold of "Murder On The Orient Express".

His final point is that Ms. Fiorina misrepresented the Planned Parenthood videos, apparently conflating verbal recollections from a related documentary with the actual images from Planned Parenthood. Ooops:

Carly Fiorina spoke out against Planned Parenthood regarding the controversial videos released over the last few months. The scene she described, though, does not exist in any of the videos.

Fiorina: I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain.

We are aware of no video showing such a scene. The videos, released by the Center for Medical Progress beginning on July 14, have focused on fetal tissue being collected for research and have shown some aborted fetal tissue. As we wrote before, the use of donated fetal tissue has been important in several areas of scientific research.

Fiorina’s description matches up with one of the videos in a series the Center for Medical Progress has called “Human Capital” — but only with regard to how an interviewee describes her experience. Holly O’Donnell, an “ex-procurement technician” for StemExpress, a company that procures fetal tissue from Planned Parenthood clinics, relates a story of an intact fetus. She says that a Planned Parenthood doctor “taps the heart and it starts beating,” and then instructs her to remove its brain for collection.

People are saying it happened but there is no video so its all good? That might fly.

 

Comments

[jimmyk]

Which is more fun, fisking Ezra Klein or Paul Krugman? Decisions.

[About time.]

The Furies.

[Beasts of England]

Carly appears to be directly over the target, as they say.

[Gentlejim]

It'd be nice if the idiots on the left would fact check the dopes who are actually in charge, see 404 and Hiiligula. Not one thing that Carly has said has or will have any influence on our economy or our national security. The idiots mentioned above have eroded and continue to erode both. What is more important to our existence, some hair-splitting on comments made during a debate or actual policies and actions? The MFM and Left can suck an egg.

[Jack is Back!]

If she is drawing the attention of the juice Voxers then she is sliding up the threat level indicator. Good.

[anonamom]

re-post from twp posts earlier:

Just got a correction on the Diane Rehm Show!!!
My years of torture paid off.

Listening to it, Norm Whoever said Carly lied about the video
"showing" a fetus having its brain cut on.

She didn't say that. I tweeted this:

@drshow Norm just lied about what Carly said. She did NOT say you'll see them cutting on the brain. Replay the segment.

And he had to read the quote from WaPo. AND I WAS RIGHT!!
And this all happened in less than three minutes!!!!!

Make them play by their own rules, right Saul?

[James D]

I know envy is one of the seven deadly sins, but when I think about how much money a scummy, intellectually banrupt little turd like Klein has been handed, well...

Just my thoughts on the subject are probably enough to consign me to one of the lower circles of hell.

[matt]

6th Fleet is a mess. A command ship and a few destroyers and frigates spread from the eastern Med to Nigeria and back.

We rarely have carriers in the Med any more and the lack of forces is one reason we were unable to do diddley squat in Benghazi.

These Leftists must be crushed. They are utterly dishonest and utterly ruthless in their quest for domination.

The latest is Obama's invitation to transgenders, militant nuns, and a gay Episcopalian bishop to the White House for the Pope's visit. That is like inviting Lester Maddox to a reception with Martin Luther King.

In the meantime Putin is running rings around him and he dares do nothing to upset the Chinese dictator. The $500 million for half a dozen Syrian oppo fighters is just one more indication of the madness of Washington these days.

It has been a litany of disaster and lies and coverups.

[Jack is Back!]

A few threads back Deb (inNC) had a comment about the number of Catholics on the SCOTUS and in Congressional leadership positions. According to Roll Call, the house is 31% Catholic with 83 members Republican and 83 members Democrat.

http://blogs.rollcall.com/hawkings/time-pope-catholic-plurality-congress-achieves-partisan-balance/?dcz=

Of course, some are moar Catholic than others or as I call them CINOs.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Ezra Klein is, in the memorable words of Peter Boyle as Frank Barone, a clown with bubbles coming out of his bee-hind.

[Frau An- und Abmelden]

Repeating myself to support Art from Newport:

Art in Newport - shout it louder! A cake walk against Baba Boxer? It was anything but--just as Boxer sucker punched the able Bruce Hershenson "in the Year of the Woman."
Doesn't that carp ever get old?

Criminently! CA Republicans could run a clone of Washington or Lincoln or Reagan and be cut off at the knees with NO support from the GOPe.
Tom McClintock could run the entire state with no help but if he ran for governor (again), he would end up in the Democrats' Slime-o-Matic. He is too valuable at this point to sacrifice.

Check with Meg Whitman about her cake walk. She said being CEO of a big corporation is easier than running for governor in CA. I admire Scott Walker for being able to take on the monsters in WI and winning.

[PDinDetroit temporarily in CA]

I am hearing from both Democrats and Republicans that I work with that they would vote for Trump.

SMH

[James D]

6th Fleet is a mess. A command ship and a few destroyers and frigates spread from the eastern Med to Nigeria and back.

We rarely have carriers in the Med any more and the lack of forces is one reason we were unable to do diddley squat in Benghazi.

You just gave me a flashback to one of Romney's many,many missed opportunities in 2012. When he brought up the reduced size of the Navy, and Zero snarked about how "we have these big ships called aircraft carriers now," the proper response would have been:

"Yes, Barry, we do. And if you ever bothered to attend your daily briefings, you'd know we don't send them out by themelves. That's why they're called Carrier Battle Groups. Each one has 10-15 ships. And for each one that's out on duty in the world, we need two or three of them, to account for crew training, repair, upgrades and all that. And incase you didn't take any geography classes in school, Barry, there's an awful lot of ocean out there in the world. so we need at least six of those battle groups on patrol at all times, which means we need twelve groups in all. So that's 180 ships right there. And then we still have submarines - those are the ones that go under the water, in case you weren't sure - and support ships, and all the cruisers and destroyers we send out on their own. So, yes, Barry, we do need more ships in the Navy."

[gaw]

I think Trump's base support is primarily the LIV crowd not the Tea Party people. They are very excited because it was from Trump they first learned that the Country was in trouble.
I would like to direct a question to Clarice and Jane or anybody who is current on Tea Party activities; has any candidate made any overtures to the TP for support or formulated a plan to persuade the members to join their campaign? I think the candidate who could successfully convince to TP people to support him/her would be the winner. It would also be a winner for the country.

[Frau An- und Abmelden]

Master Ezra's pants are as full as he is of himself. Another Dem who believed it when his parents told him he was clever and smart.
Bah!

[gaw]

"The" TP people

[sbw]

has any candidate made any overtures to the TP for support

[Jumping in where I am ignorant] There ain't no cohesive single organization. The TP are ideas. Espouse the ideas and you have a tea party following.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

What business does an Episcopal bishop, homo or straight assuming there are any of the latter, have being at a reception for Pope Che?

[danoso]

It is to laugh - I mean, if they want to discuss the finer points of what's in the PP videos, by all means let's go there.

[lyle]

Petulant, mendacious little prick:

Washington (CNN)As Republican presidential candidates lay into his record, President Barack Obama on Wednesday chalked up the attacks to expected election-year politics but said there was "nothing particularly patriotic" about their rhetoric.

"Despite the perennial doom and gloom that I guess is inevitably part of a presidential campaign, America is winning right now," Obama said at a meeting of the Business Roundtable in Washington. "America is great right now. We can do even better."

He cited job creation, the rising stock market and millions of Americans who now have health insurance as examples of a successful presidential run.

Don't you just love this Marxist/Socialist fraud citing a rising stock market as a success?

[anonamom]

so JiB, I'm really interested here--how do you classify CINOs?

[gaw]

Well SBW they were cohesive enough to do a terrific job in a lot of states the last election.

[Peter]

What up the fed

[anonamom]

Roger Simon agrees with my assessment of who looked presidential last evening:

http://pjmedia.com/diaryofamadvoter/2015/09/17/who-won-the-reagan-library-debate/

Question: how do we bring in the Trump supporters?
We need them.

[James D]

lyle @ 1:59

Especially when he himself and his fellow travellers specifically mocked the rising stock market as a positive indicator during GWB's Presidency.

[sbw]

they were cohesive enough

Absolutely. More as individual decisions than group voting.

I agree with you that much is to be gained to speaking to principles tea party types support.

[Frau An- und Abmelden]

"America is great right now. We can do even better."

Seventh Summer of Recovery draws to an end...

[Beasts of England]

We're doing great, eh, Barry? Checked those food stamp figures lately?

[narciso]

Yep why we are not raising rates.

[Texas Liberty Gal]

I posted this on another thread before I realized 2 more threads had been created. This is a good article about Ted Cruz from Rich Lowry. Says if he wins Iowa he'd be in good position to get the nomination. I can dream can't I?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/ted-cruz-sitting-pretty-213151#ixzz3luk71P8v

[Beasts of England]

The people who support Trump outside of the nominal republican voter base probably can't be brought back in, anonamom. I'd guess that they just return to not really caring.

[sbw]

Tex, we could do a lot worse.

[Porchlight]

In total, Fiorina's laundry list of proposals sure sounded like a plan, but on inspection, it's hard to see why any of them would convince Putin to change course.

But none of them are factually incorrect, right?

Why is Klein, supposedly in a fact checking role, offering his OPINIONS on whether a stated plan is any good?

[henry]

Fasten seat belts!

Seriously, sit before reading.

Yes, Mystery Gaff Theater 2016 coming to a TV near you. (ht, CLU)

[henry]

Porch, Klein was trained by our wonderful universities that his opinion IS fact. That he is attractive to [insert species / gender of his choice], that he is intelligent [compared to other potted plants] etc.

[Jack is Back!]

anonamom,

Kerry, Pelosi and Biden are CINOs for their stands on same sex marriage, abortion and contraception, IMO. There may be other examples of "cafeteria" selections that the CINO will pick and choose.

[Thomas Collins]

Duke & Duke may want to ponder the significant possibility that an Establishment GOPer can't beat The Hill, Biden or Warren in the general. Of Fiorina, Trump and Carson, Fiorina is the best non-establishment candidate. Fiorina-Rubio would be a tough ticket to beat. Kasich-Rubio or Kasich-Fiorina? Won't fly.

[Thomas Collins]

If juiceboxer Klein was sent on an errand to carry prog water against Fiorina, it's a pretty good indication that Fiorina's performance caused The Hill's people "runs" to the water closet in which her server is located.

[matt]

CINO's are basically those who do not follow the teachings of the church. We also call them cafeteria Catholics.

The Telly over London way yesterday reported that whoever is the Anglican archbishop is pressing to hold a synod next year.

Apparently it is make or break time for the Anglican/Episcopalian synod. The African and other conservatives have had enough and apparently the Brits and Americans don't believe in anything except smiley faces anymore.

[Porchlight]

matt,

I hope there will be a split. If so, our own parish will go with the Africans/conservatives.

[Porchlight]

Good points, henry and TC.

[Thomas Collins]

Overall debate winners? Fiorina number one and Cruz number 2. It was fine for Carly to shine in Triple A. She has now established herself as a major league candidate. Cruz is doing a good job of articulating his conservative policies while reaching out to Trump supporters. When the Trump balloon deflates, Cruz is in a good position to get many former Trump supporters, even though Trump is not a conservative.

[jimmyk]

Why is Klein, supposedly in a fact checking role, offering his OPINIONS on whether a stated plan is any good?

That's a rhetorical question, right? :)

As TC more or less said, on the left there are no objective facts, only whatever can be used to achieve their ends.

[daddy (Vote for Pedro!)]

Rush just had on a woman caller in hour 2 who said she wasn't impressed with Carly. She said that Carly should say, "Look, I'm an ugly broad", but even being an ugly broad I got to where I am based on my brains and hard work and what's inside me.

Then Rush got to talking about Y boys look at girls. Anyhow, personally I think Carly's pretty good looking. Definitely a lot better looking than Hillary.

So since this pic is currently headlining Drudge, how about Caption Time:

What are these Boys talking about?

"So would you do Carly?

"Only if my only other choice is Hillary!

[BR]

Speaking of servers, this is intriguing:

Domain Name ca.gov (U.S. Government)
IP Address 199.103.61.# (County of Placer)
ISP County of Placer
Location Continent : North America
Country : United States (Facts)
State : New York
City : Staten Island
Lat/Long : 40.5865, -74.1497 (Map
...
Visitor's Time Sep 17 2015 1:31:52 pm
________________________

Placer County, CA - but NY?

[Porchlight]

That's a rhetorical question, right? :)

Yes. :)

But even four/eight years ago, articles purporting to fact check didn't insert such obvious opinionating.

It just the drooling Pavlovian stupidity of the lefty social media audience. You just put the words "fact checking" anywhere in the headline or lead paragraph and they all start tweeting it around. EZRA KLEIN TOTALLY DESTROYS CARLY!

[jimmyk]

I like looking at the financial market before and after the Fed announcements. This was the 10-year Treasury yield. Note how it starts to decline an hour or so before the announcement:

Maybe some information trickling out in advance?

[daddy (Vote for Pedro!)]

@drshow Norm just lied about what Carly said. She did NOT say you'll see them cutting on the brain. Replay the segment.

And he had to read the quote from WaPo. AND I WAS RIGHT!!
And this all happened in less than three minutes!!!!!

Make them play by their own rules, right Saul?

Great job, Anonamom!

[Thomas Collins]

Biggest loser? Kasich. If, when the Trump balloon deflates, a Duke and Duke candidate comes to the fore, it is still most likely to be Jeb. Kasich did nothing for Duke and Dukers to want to stop giving $$$ to Jeb and be a sugar daddy/sugar mommy for Kasich. Now, I must say, Kasich has a pretty good record as a candidate, so perhaps his last Duke and Duke man standing campaign will work. At the moment, I don't see it.

By the way, by biggest loser I am talking about, along the lines of my criterion for biggest winner. who did the most to hurt or help a realistic shot at the POTUSey. As much as I admire Ben Carson, I don't think he has a realistic shot.

[Extraneus]

Europe migrants' life-jacket capital

The city of Izmir on Turkey's Mediterranean coast has long been known as a tourist destination. But now people fleeing Syria's civil war are using it as a staging post on their journey to Europe and providing shopkeepers with an unmissable business opportunity, reports the BBC's Manveen Rana.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

A split in the Episcopal church would bring me back into the fold on the side of the African/Asian branch. Let the rest go to Provincetown.

[Porchlight]

I don't know, TC. I think Walker is the biggest loser because I think he had, prior to the Trump bubble, the best shot against Jeb.

I have this weird feeling at this point (and I know it's early) that Jeb will fail, with Kasich as his beneficiary for the eventual nomination.

[Thomas Collins]

I also think Fiorina played identity politics at the right time and rejected it at the opportune moment. Trump's comment about Fiorina's appearance was Trump leading with his jaw to a Fiorina right cross that makes Trump look like an idiot more focused on insulting women than leading the country (which is why I think it was smart for Fiorina to reference women knowing what Trump meant, as opposed to saying everyone knew). However, when it came to the face on the ten dollar bill, Fiorina expertly discussed the issue in the context of opportunity for women, not identity let's get a female on a bill politics.

[henry]

Ext, I wonder if they have a recycling market going for those life vests... sending actual boats to retrieve from the beaches then resell.

[Thomas Collins]

Looking at both debates as a unit, Porchlight, I would say Walker is the biggest loser. I think Walker would make the most capable POTUS, but his debate performances and overall campaign so far haven't been helping him.

As far as Jeb goes, he should thank Trump for letting him get in his GWB kept us safe remarks. Jeb looks like an eager young intern trying to impress the Senator for whom he works.

[Porchlight]

Cap'n, there must be some splinter Anglican churches in your area. How about this one? According to the website, they use the 1928 BCP.

http://saintjamescleveland.com/

[Porchlight]

I think Walker would make the most capable POTUS, but his debate performances and overall campaign so far haven't been helping him.

True.

Well, them's the breaks. He is still young. Might be too late for the country, though.

[daddy (Vote for Pedro!)]

A split in the Episcopal church would bring me back into the fold on the side of the African/Asian branch.

Captain,

20 years ago when the Episcopal Church in my small town of Morehead City split, the Church became part of the Episcopal Church of Rwanda. They led to a big Court Case where my mom got called in as a testifying witness. I don't know how much money that cost, but the Court ruled that the property belonged to the non African based Episcopal Church, so they got booted off the property and the Gay bunch moved back in.

Have no idea how expensive that all turned out to be, but stand by to have your wallets out.

[daddy (Vote for Pedro!)]

TC,

I agree with everything you've said in the thread above, and desperately hope you're right about Cruz being well placed to pick up Trump voters when/if Trump implodes.

And Carly's 20 dollar bill answer was great.

[Beasts of England]

I noticed the life jacket store pictured above has one sized for a little tike.

[Buckeye]

"They are very excited because it was from Trump they first learned that the Country was in trouble."

Pretty condescending comment in my opinion.

There are lots of fine folks who are admittedly low information types who understand very clearly that the country is in trouble.

They know this because they can't find a job.

They know this because the see our infrastructure crumbling.

They know this because they see innocent people getting murdered in sanctuary cities.

People have latched on to Trump because they have listened to Dem and Repub politicians tell them they will fix things and then never do.

May very well be misguided, but it is understandable. In fact, maybe even rational.

[Jack is Back!]

Izmir is also the smuggling capital of Turkey. Used to be gold, diamonds, drugs and such but now its the lucrative human cargo line of business.

And for Janet, they have a very sophisticated Light Rail system or streetcar:)

Lots of Russians in the summer.

[Cecil Turner (on mini pad)]

I agree with everything you've said in the thread above, and desperately hope you're right about Cruz being well placed to pick up Trump voters when/if Trump implodes.

I think he is. Cruz is number two in the money race (or was last I checked), and is staying in the game in the polls. I really think Walker would make a better pres, but unless something changes soon, he's going to run out of steam/money.

[Miss Marple]

Buckeye,

Well said and I agree 100%. Most people don't have the time or inclination to follow all this stuff. They are busy working or trying to find work, and a lot of them don't have Fox because they cannot afford cable.

But they know something is wrong.

[Porchlight]

Cruz really seems to be doing a good job running his campaign. Pleasant surprise so far.

[Ann]

Dont't know if this has been posted, but you can't believe it... til you see it. :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3237930/Jeb-Bush-gets-head-Republican-candidates-manages-tower-Donald-Trump-stands-tiptoes-group-photo.html

[Extraneus]

Wow. That should do him in, Ann. (Don't think anyone posted that here before you.)

[clarice]

Excellent posts TM and anonamom.

I don't know--in response to the question posed to me--if anyone has made a specific appeal to the tea party.

[Miss Marple]

That tip toe thing only works if you aren't caught. If you do get caught, it makes you look petty and insecure.

[Dave (in MA)]

Huck and Kristy Kreme were sucking in their guts.

[Jack is Back!]

rse,

You know CC has problems when a liberal NE governor like Andrew Coumo wants to re-evaluate the program.

http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/East-End/121826/Governor-Calls-For-Review-Of-Common-Core

[Ann]

Hi, Ex:

I thought the most cringe worthy part of last night's debate was when Jeb wanted Trump to apologize to his wife. It was so pathetic.

Anyways, he is done. I hope his PAC money doesn't go to "Pathetic Man #2"..Kasich.

I was at a party long ago and Kasich didn't want me to mention he was a republican. HA!

[anonamom]

matt and Jib, re: CINOs--I categorize myself as Catholic. Spent every school day for 12 years in religion class, til it became theology class in high school. We just never got the the info on how to look into other people's souls to evaluate their Catholicism, and knowing a certain someone has children from an earlier marriage, wondered what served as the litmus test, as marriage for life must not.

And I'm guessing you both have what 12, 14 kids? Or had the most amazing luck with that natural family planning?

I'm just yanking your chains here. I don't think we should be killing viable babies in the womb as a method of birth control, but I also don't think a married couple needs to have twenty children from expressing their love for each other either. Like apparently every other couple in my parish, as the largest family I've ever seen has five children, not the ten or twelve of my youth.

matt, did you see/hear CF last night when legalization of marijuana was discussed?
What did you think? I thought of you.

[Stephanie]

RE the Tea Party and Trump...

Several of the FB pages of tea party groups are filled with Trump, Carson and Cruz fans... not much action otherwise, but many, many are on the Trump Train or the Cruz Missile. Those of a social cons persuasion are Carson, but they have doubts about his constitutional stands and economics but haven't given up the ghost for Carson, yet. They will migrate to Trump or Cruz watch and wait...

[GMax]

Yeah hard to believe old Jebbie thought he would get away with that one. Trying too hard to be high energy makes you do small stupid stuff apparently...

[matt]

In my former beach town there was a great kerfuffle when the congregation rejected the local Episcopal Diocese' teachings on social issues.

It turned into a nasty legal fight and the Diocese won, evicting the congregation. The Diocese is now selling the prime waterfront land to developers and a lot of people are up in arms.

There is another Anglican Catholic church in town as well. Not sure how that all fits together.

[Stephanie]

After 7 years of GOP collaboration with the Communist in Charge I'm deaf to the cries of the "Dangers of Trump".

This! is what the TP is saying on FB.

[Lurker Susie]

I usually lurk but today I will share my recent interaction with Trump supporters. The young man who owns his own landscape business and does my lawn. He has to compete with illegals or competitors that hire illegals. The young man who recently painted my interior. Owns his own company but has more competition with illegals and green card holders. I recently had Sheetrock work down and you guessed it, illegals taking construction jobs. They all have young children in elementary school, big impact in schools. My 90 year old democratic aunt loves Trump, she has never voted for a republican and said she will vote for Trump. These people love Trump and hate Hillary.

[Dave (in MA)]

I love how people keep making a big deal about Fiorina's "angry wife/angry boss face".

[Jack is Back!]

anonamom,

I hear you and I am not looking into anyone's soul. Its not up to me but there are Catholics who do not even pretend to practice the tenets of their faith (abortion being one of them). That is up to the clergy, not me, ewas to whether they should be excluded from the sacrements. But I will say, that I know some very devout Catholics who take their faith seriously. Go to church daily, participate in church minisitries, tithe, volunteer, perform high stewardship, etc. I admire them more than I do the Pelosi and Kerry's of the world who spit in the eye of the church's most elemental teachings and tenets.

When I was the vice-Chair of our Parish council, the 3rd largest parish in Florida (12,000+), I was exposed to a level of stewardship, spirituality and devout participation I had never witnessed. Pretty incredible people who truly live their faith. And you well know that the size of a family can be regulated by processes other than contraception and still be in compliance with the teachings of the church:)

[Some Guy]

I love how people keep making a big deal about Fiorina's "angry wife/angry boss face".

Anyone mention Hillary's "wolf in grandma's clothes" face?

[Porchlight]

Like apparently every other couple in my parish, as the largest family I've ever seen has five children, not the ten or twelve of my youth.

anonamom,

The one little note in The Sound of Music that strikes me as sour (or at least as inauthentic) was when Maria expresses surprise at hearing that the Captain has seven children. Surely that number couldn't have been particularly surprising to any Catholic in 1930s Austria.

Now granted, part of her dismay was hearing that she would be governess to seven children. But the joke is obviously meant for a modern American audience.

Growing up in a town of only 20,000, there were nevertheless three separate families of more than ten children each who had kids my age. Such a family today would be almost mindblowing. Even among the traditional Catholic families I know, the most kids any family has is seven or eight. Of course, some may not be done yet. :)

[Buckeye]

"And you well know that the size of a family can be regulated by processes other than contraception and still be in compliance with the teachings of the church:)"

Easy to say, hard to do;)

[lyle]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/17/poor-steward-federal-land-management-to-blame-for-out-control-fires-say-critics/?intcmp=hpbt1

Check out this little nugget from the comintern:

But Ingalsbee is dubious of claims that turning land over to the private sector would result in better management.

“Much more aggressive fire suppression occurs on public lands, in fact, to prevent wildfires from spreading onto private lands which are unprepared and unsustainable given wildfire,” he said.

Janine Blaeloch, director of the Seattle-based Western Land Project, which seeks to protect the environment the interest of the public in land ownership, agrees.

“Private ownership is always going to lead to maximum exploitation of resources for profit,” she said. “If you value preservation of functioning ecosystems and wildlife habitat, only public land will provide that in any significant way.”

[Miss Marple]

Just had the Hannity show on and that Michael Cohen (I think) spokesman/lawyer for Trump was on.

Said Carly was good for reciting memorized lines andof course she gets all her information from an adviser.

Apparently not. Her spokeswoman was also on and she said she writes her ownspeeches, answers any question asked, and her information comes from her life experience (head of various worldwide charity efforts, corporate dealings with international companies, head of an advisory group for the CIA).

(Before she said this Michael said that Trump does no preparation for the debates.)

So I think that caught Michael sort of flat-footed.

Anyway, I think she now is in Trump's gunsights so we will see what happens. Since he doesn't have much of a staff, the mud he slings her way is whatever he can dredge up in the New York Times.

[GMax]

Commissar Janine is such a good little watermelon, aint she?

[anonamom]

Thanks JiB.

It bothers me enormously that anyone who supports abortion on demand, until birth, would
identify as Catholic. I understand what you are saying too--just wondered where this cafeteria Catholic would fit in the CINO definition.

Because I do follow my conscience, and the spirit of the law, not infrequently. They educated me--this is what they have to deal with. ;-)

[Extraneus]

My great-grandmother had 18 children. Granted, she looked pretty old.

She's not on this list, but some of the men seem pretty impressive. (Ismail Ibn Sharif, for example, had 867.)

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--She said that Carly should say, "Look, I'm an ugly broad"--

Not Miss Universe material now equals ugly?

[Rick Ballard]

Texas Liberty Gal,

Lowry is wrong to put such an emphasis on a "win" in Iowa. The Deaniacs and Ronulans did a fine job of making Iowa worthless and there is no reason to believe Donulans can't do it again. I don't doubt Cruz has a plan for Iowa but South Carolina is more important and will get more attention. He wants a win in SC as the lead in to SEC Super Tuesday on March1.

Emphasizing Iowa's "importance" (none) is a set up for knockdown stories if the Donulan pod people reprise past idiocy.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Frito-Gay launches rainbow colored Doritos in honor of LGBTWHATEVER "pride".
I DON'T wonder what flavor they are.

[Daddy on the new iPhone]

That tip toe thing only works if you aren't caught. If you do get caught, it makes you look petty and insecure.

It also leads to the easy rejoinder ' Jeb's a little light in his loafers."

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

I'll check that out, Porch; thanks for the link. I know exactly where it is.

[mike in houston]

Cruz ad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4K_uFZW9Jk

[rse]

henry-the Workforce Data Campaign is pushing this vision for getting Business and large employers on board.

http://www.workforcedqc.org/sites/default/files/files/WDQC_EmployerEngagement.pdf

[Gentlejim]

I don't get the crap about Carly's looks. I think she's plenty attractive especially given her brains and attitude. I'll take an "average" looking smart woman over a bombshell idiot every time.

[gaw]

Bucky and Miss Marple

I did not mean to be condescending but I can see how you could read it that way. I think most of Trump's early support came from people who had never heard such news distributed through the MSM. Trump, a celebrity with a national audience, broke through that wall of silence with a loud, non-PC voice that we hadn't heard before. I liked what I heard but I didn't particularly like Trump. However he was instantly popular with the people you are talking about Buckeye. It is my opinion that they will not desert Trump and may not vote if he isn't the nominee. They will have to be persuaded at the county and precinct level and that is where the TP people, again in my opinion, will be invaluable.

[lyle]

Since Frito-Gay is owned by Pepsi, that isn't too surprising, Ig. You'll recall them shamelessly shilling for the Lightbringer circa '08. Yet another company on lyle's boycott list. Man, is it growing daily.

[lyle]

I'll take an "average" looking smart woman over a bombshell idiot every time.

To say nothing of drunken socialist soulless grifter hag.

[anonamom]

She could soften the look with the shorter hair in Ig's pic above, and as I've noted before, I think a bit less Botox next time it wears off. Her face isn't very expressive, thus the "mean" look.

There's actually a meme about that look--Resting Bitch Face. From ---NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/fashion/im-not-mad-thats-just-my-resting-b-face.html

(Just doing my best to keep JOMers up with pop culture)