Carson And Jefferson - USA Today Breaks Ranks

USA Today hopped on the "Carson is a Constitutional clown" bandwagon earlier today but has now hopped off:

Oops! Carson's not actually wrong about Jefferson: Column

Do tell! I should add that the USA Today climbdown is amusing and informative. Will it serve as an example to the many, many Progressive Groupthinkers that couldn't spend two minutes Googling Jefferson and the Constitution before bashing Carson?

That's not my bet, but I am never going to be smart enough to be a progressive. My goodness, I can't even spell "epistemic closure" and I am still hazy as to what an "echo chamber" might be.

Well, hardly for the first time - the InstaPundit gets results!

 

Comments

[Not last.]

One is the loneliest number is the number one.

[daddy]

Oops! Carson's not actually wrong about Jefferson:

Gosh. If only there was a different way a Banner Newspaper Headline could be printed to convey the same meaning as "Carson's not actually wrong," that didn't still link "Carson" and "wrong" in the same sentence.

I'm not a newspaper guy, so I'm not a professional or anything, but do you think something like "Carson Was Right" might work?

Maybe even "Carson Was Right" about Jefferson and The Constitution, and it's His critics who are Wrong."

I think that might work, but I know I'm veering into dangerous territory, not being a professional Journalist and all, so the Teams of Editors at USAToday probably know better, and the more honest thing is exactly what they've done (i.e.) let his critics off the hook completely while keeping "Carson" and "Wrong" tethered together in the Banner Headline, without ever saying flat out "Carson Was Right!"

I also wish they'd tell us if they like the crease in his pant.

[peter]

Third! not bad. If I had gotten out of bed when my alarm went off, might have been second.

[daddy]

Uh Oh,

Breaking News. A Russian Fighter Jet shot down. 2 Russian pilots eject before crash.

Stand by for this as the main story when you guys wake up. The shoot down and crash is on clear video already being aired. Initial report via SkyNews being shown of FOX Business says the Russian Jet was shot down by the Turkish Military.

Here's the BBC story just up: Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border'

Reporters on the FOX feed say Turkey (a NATO Country) issued 10 threats prior to shooting the plane down, and they have captured one of the Shot Down Pilot.

I sure hope this doesn't throw another chink into the upcoming Climate Change Conference.

[daddy]

Morning Peter, turn on the boob-tube.

Sure hope the 2nd Russian Pilot isn't picked up by the "Social Media" Jay Vee team.

[daddy]

Here's much better video from Russia Today, which maintains in the story that the Russian plane was over Syrian Territory, not over Turkey. Russian Su-24 fighter jet shot down over Syria - Russian MoD (VIDEO)

BBC says it was probably shot down by a Turkish F-16, but the Russian link says they think it was shot down by a ground based missile. I think the F-16 is more likely but that should be determined by the time you guys wake up.

[Steve]

Yes we can! Democrat Carlyle Begay (Navajo) SWITCHES from Democrat to Republican Party!

http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2015/11/yes-we-can-democrat-carlyle-begay.html

[daddy]

The UK Independent in unverified Twitter Updates with pics says both pilots have been captured by Syrian Opposition forces and one pilot has been killed by the Syrian Captors.The Independent

[peter]

daddy @ 1:31, apparently the emotion you are allowed to feel is you can be "down, or troubled, and you need a helping hand"

[daddy]

Big stink already ongoing over whether the Jet was over Turkish Territory or was over Syrian Territory when it was shot down.

CNN reporter says that in the past Russia has violated Turkish Airspace, and that the shot down jet violated Turkish Airspace today and was repeatedly warned, but Russia maintains it was not over Turkey.

CNN Reporter says that it's going to complicate the incipient "Let's Build an International Coalition" effort to combat ISIS.

CNN says Helicopters are over the area of expected landing of the parachutes, still looking for the 2nd pilot. Typical contrasting reports. This all only happened about an hour ago max.

[daddy]

Good one Peter:)

A little interesting to me is that the Shoot Down is not knocking all the other news off the channels, but I guess what with all the other news going on at the moment (i.e.) Paris, Brussels, Hollande arriving in DC, the bombing of ISIS targets, and the pipelined stories of the Candidates, the manipulated Intel reports etc. it's really not so odd.

CNN, FOX, CNBC, all seem to be back and forth on all those stories as the market sets to open.

What will Putin do?

[henry]

OK, so Obama got us into global thermonuclear war for thanksgiving?

Or does Vlad simply help the Kurds.

[daddy]

Morning, Henry.

Over at the Independent a tweet posted 20 minutes ago, I think by a Journalist says this:

Andrew Roth
@ARothWP
Vice-speaker of the Duma suggests evacuating Russian tourists from Turkey following "act of aggression." twitter.com/Vinokurov12/st…

In The Independent Videos, you can hear the guys filming the shoot down, the parachutes, and the searching Helo's, screamming Alahu Akbar at the top of their lungs.

[anonamom]

If daddy hadn't noted that Turkey is a NATO member, I'd not have gotten the import of that news.

(Why I hang here, even at the airport. Daddy, I got to bring my liquids through. I'm guessing they are thinking what I am thinking--it's not the passengers, its those workers that are breezing by in the next line who are the threat to me. Nothing personal, of course!)

[daddy]

Here's the UK Daily Mail's Take: BREAKING NEWS - Turkey shoots down RUSSIAN jet for violating its air space: Flaming Su-24 fighter spirals into the ground in Syria

It has a video purported to show the dead Russian Pilot. It explains a bit more who exactly are the troops on the ground in the region where the pilots were captured. Also this:

The Turkish Army later released a radar analysis image which they say tracks the movement of the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 jet, showing where it entered Turkish air space, and where it went down.

Two F-16 planes on aerial patrol duty in the area intervened against the plane in question in accordance with the rules of engagement at 09.24am.'

[daddy]

Yep, Anonomom, big potential stink.

Hopefully the violation of Turkish Airspace is undeniable via Radar and Satellite tracking etc.
Surprisingly FOX Business has been on the story more than regular FOX, and CNN is back and forth between the shoot-down, bash Trump, the shoot down, bash Carson, the shoot down, praise Obama, etc.

And TM doesn't pay me enough to click on over to Morning Joe.

[Beasts of England]

Welcome back, NK!!

[henry]

So, what does NATO do now? Does it survive when Turkey calls on it, and Obama wimps out?

[rse]

daddy-when you are home you make a fine overnight jom reporter. You have to wonder how many previously contentious Thanksgiving get togethers may have "maybe Trump is the answer" binding formerly Dem or Rep voters?

If we hear of Florida voters trying to change their party affiliations before deadline or switch from Independent where you cannot vote in primaries at all, we will have the signs of a wave.

[daddy]

So, what does NATO do now?

Good question.

We know that Putin wants to tear NATO apart. I'm not smart enough to see if this helps him do that, or how he can use it as a crisis to achieve that goal.

Hopefully Wretchard will have some input late today.

One of the CNN guys says Putin and Russian forces will probably keep working with France in the near term, but probably not with anyone else in NATO, thus making a coalition against ISIS unlikely, and therefore beneficial to ISIS.

I'm off to bed in a few minutes, so over to you guys.

[pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

"SWITCHES from Democrat to Republican Party!"

I have never figured out why an American would admit to being a Democrat.

[henry]

We wil soon have an answer to the NATO question....

The lurker notes:

iBama's last act of flexibility.

@haynesdeborah: Turkey requested extraordinary @NATO council meeting to inform members of downing of Russian jet. Meeting will happen at 5pm Brussels time.

[Jack is Back!]

Henry,

But was the term "article 5" used? That's 11am here. I really don't like it when we force our ManBoy to make a decision.

[henry]

JiB, stocks aren't low enough, oil not high enough for an Article 5... but it is early yet.

[Marlene]

Good Morning! I posted on the previous thread,more coffee please! My question re: Turkey shooting down the Russian plane? Now what?!

[Gentlejim]

Well JiB, if 404 holds true to form his decision shouldn't take more than 6 months to arrive.

[Jeff Dobbs]

A lot of catchup from last night....

Welcome back, NK! Sorry to hear about your mom, and my deepest condolences. In her honor please allow me to note for everyone else here that she would have turned 91 last Friday.

Miss Marple:
Go into any bar and listen to what people say when ISIS atrocities come on the TV. What do they say?

"Bomb the crap out of them." That's also what Trump said.

I'm going out on a limb and saying I spend more time in a bar than anyone here (although daddy may give me a run for my money due to his traveling). I think you're exactly right about what people would say. From my interaction with the blue collar guys and gals in my bars, that hasn't yet translated to Trump love at this point. Everyone is still in the mode of thinking of him as a reality show start/clown.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Also....

Happy Birthday Mr. Tonto!!!

[Miss Marple 2]

Good morning!

I believe we will have a lot of talk and posing for pictures.

Also, it occurs to me that this gets Obama off the hook with Hollande, who wants everyone to join up. "Of course, Mr. Hollande, we cannot ask deal with Russia since they have infringed Turkish air space. NATO and such, you know. Surely you understand."

My level of cynicism is such that I would not be surprised to find out that Erdogan did this at the request of Obama so as to forestall any sort of dealings witht he Russians vs. ISIS.

And I don't think Turkey should be in NATO anyway, as they have gone Islamic fundamentalist.

You can bet money that TURKEY will invoke Article 5, even though Hollande did not because he knew Obama would refuse. And Turkey WILL invoke it, because Obama will go along in order to keep the French and UK and Germany OUT of Syria.

What a mess.

[Jeff Dobbs]

JMH:
I've been in and out of town so much this year that I decided to stay home for Thanksgiving and gave myself permission to accomplish nothing but visit with old friends this week.

If you find yourself hankerin' for some in person company, please remember that our door is always open. We'd love love love to have you over for Thanksgiving.

(although, truth be told, we'll be at our friends' house. but you're invited. i mean, who wouldn't want to show up to their friends' house with . . . the most interesting woman in the world!)

[Miss Marple 2]

John Hayward ‏@Doc_0 1m1 minute ago

Putin on the Turks: "Do they want NATO to serve the interests of ISIS?"
0 retweets 0 likes

[rse]

New post up that is an update of my classic why governments want to keep citizens ignorant using Hayek's observations.

http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/being-thankful-we-know-about-the-new-mandate-of-student-success-to-create-and-then-sway-a-group-mind/

[henry]

While Obama changes his depends over Turkish pilots hitting their target, someone is asking the question that needs to be asked did GAB break the law in discussing John Doe with Lerner? Yes, a felony FTSAH with cash and jail time attached. The same question needs to be asked of the DAs leaking to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal (Dan Bice's wife works for Chisolm as far as I can tell).

[NK]

Happy Birthday Mr. Tonto.

Well, Obummer and the Mullahs get what they want, Armageddon, and Allah be Praised, return of the 12th Imam. Does that make us de facto allies with the MB and ISIS?

[Buckeye]

I wonder what US built surface to air missile was used.

At least the Turks were nice enough to test it's effectiveness against an SU-24 for us.

[Buckeye]

MM

If the Turks invoke Article 5, Zero will go along.

Other choice is to send Kerry and James Taylor but he can't sing in a Turkic language.

[Threadkiller]

Rand Paul made the case of what would be the result of the Rubio no-fly zone. Although it wasn't the US doing the shooting, and it may have been an air space violation, the effect will be the same.

If it was over Turkish air space, why are the Russian helicopters not being turned away?

[henry]

TK, it crashed in Syria... the pilots bailed over Syria. Where it was when shot is an open question.

[henry]

More from our lurking friend:

@zerohedge: SYRIAN OBSERVATORY SAYS RUSSIAN HELICOPTER HIT IN SYRIA, REBEL GROUP SAYS IT STRUCK IT WITH ANTI-TANK MISSILE: RTRS

[Threadkiller]

Thanks, Henry. Which group has the one pilot?

[henry]

TK, the Turkomen. Or both pilots are dead. Not much is clear beyond the plane crashing and two chutes landing in Syria in a Turkomen area that Russia has been bombing lately. Turkomen are ethnic Turks in Syria, Turkey likes them.

[Buckeye]

I see the SU-24 was downed by Turkish F-16, so probably standoff air to air?

[Threadkiller]

Thanks again, henry.

[NK]

So the Turks scrambled F-16s and splashed that old shitbox SU-24? (1960s F-111 industrial espionage) Good. Someone has to punch Vlad the Impaler in the nose. The MB doing it with NATO hardware, however, was not good. I'm sure Vlad will double down and now send more Mig-29s to escort bombing raids in Syria/Iraq.

[Momto2]

All of this going on and Jake Tapper/CNN tweeting about Trump seeing people jump on 9/11. My fingers are itching but I won't reply....I'm being nice all week = Thanksgiving!

[Johns_Creek_Bill]

Random thoughts

Putin has to do something.

King 3 Putt will dither.

My guess is that both King 3 Putt and Putin have no use for NATO.

If I were in the Baltics I would be getting very nervous.

Sarajevo.

[Momto2]

King 3 Putt will dither.

So JCB - isn't that par for the course? (Sorry - really bad pun)

[pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

http://gotnews.com/fact-check-muslims-did-celebrate-9-11-according-to-the-ny-times/

Anyone want to guess if the NYTs is an acceptable source to the leftists?

[Jeff Dobbs]

As seen on Instapundit:

WHY DOES OBAMA HATE BEER LOVERS? Obamacare calorie rules brewing trouble for craft beer makers.

Talk about a red line!

But you know who likes having homemade craft beer (that will not be subject to Obamacare rules)?

Obama.

The pres­id­ent talked to Today show co­host Sa­van­nah Gu­thrie in the White House kit­chen Sunday, be­fore the Seattle Seahawks and New Eng­land Pat­ri­ots took the field in Phoenix for Su­per Bowl XLIX.

“We make beer,” said Obama, dressed in a lav­ender ging­ham shirt with the sleeves rolled up. “First pres­id­ent since George Wash­ing­ton to make some booze in the White House.”

Of course, while the media gets the lie about Carson around the world three times before truth realizes it's time to boot up, here we have Obama flubbing the fact that construction of the White House didn't even begin until after Washington was not only no longer president - but a year after he had died.

Obama is not that smart (™ MarkO).

(ftsah, t-minus two days until i can have my first beer in four weeks. what a time to be alive!)

[windansea]

Poll: Ted Cruz pulls even with Donald Trump in Iowa

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/poll-ted-cruz-iowa-trump-216166#ixzz3sPyrKXJp

[buccaneer morgan]

Well the USA today climbdoen has some of the snark dear leader would use, 23rd out friend the sultan, we discover that the grey wolves who have been at various times and foes to him, the ergonokon gambit have been tied to everything from Chechen auxiliaries to that bombing in bangkok a month or so back.

[Buckeye]

hit

why on the wagon?

[Sue]

Happy birthday Tonto.

Buckle up folks. The ride is about to get bumpy.

[buccaneer morgan]

Goose* was on Fox business, whining that trump was was threatening Americans by his attacks on American muslims, Que... A stronger version of winning the future,

*Lindsey.

[Threadkiller]

http://m.wmur.com/politics/challenges-to-cruz-naturalborn-citizenship-to-be-heard-in-nh-next-week/36482768

This story is a week old, so I assume the hearing is today.

[jimmyk]

Saw on Twitter:

Razor ‏@hale_razor 1h

In Russian Thanksgiving, Turkey shoots you.

[Tom Bowler]

"the question that needs to be asked did GAB break the law in discussing John Doe with Lerner?"

Henry, do you have any sense as to whether, even in a Republican administration, criminal charges will pursued? It would be nice if some of these bad actors in the bureaucracy are prosecuted, but what are the chances?

[NK]

For Daddy-- my nephew needed some legal advice to break an apartment lease in Hanover, but he's otherwise fine. Before writing that next tuition check (Hanlon letter link doesn't work but I'm sure you have it): http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/23/dartmouth-president-announces-investigation-black-white-intimidation/

[jimmyk]

Seems to me politicians only get jail time when suitcases of cash are involved.

[pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

Is this new or not? I can't keep up.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media

[henry]

Tom B, I have no idea. I do know most of the R legislators are very po'd. I'm not sure what the AG will do. At this point I'm not sure the civil suit will survive the reform of John Doe law, campaign finance law, and the GAB. I'm not holding my breath.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Buckeye:
why on the wagon?

Saw an article about some study that said even 30 days off the sauce can give your liver time to heal (among other potential benefits). While I've joked and railed at the ridiculousness of "health studies" - this was a "what have I got to lose?" situation.

Also, I really could stand to lose a few pounds.

Lost 10 so far. Those who have met me know that I'm not a big guy, so 10 is fairly significant. Could stand to lose 5-10 more to get back to tip-top fighting shape.

[Miss Marple 2]

Noah Rothman Retweeted
Jesse Rodriguez ‏@JesseRodriguez 7m7 minutes ago

Two Russian pilots who parachuted from their fighter jet after being fired upon by Turkey were shot dead as they descended to the ground
6 retweets 0 likes

[Miss Marple 2]

Listening about Hollande visit reported by James Rosen. Seems to me it's about like I said. Coalition with Russia is "superfluous" since Obama already has that "65 nation" invisible coalition.

[Momto2]

Just read more "Clock-Boy" news. He is threatening the School Board /City of Irving that if they don't pay the $15 million in 60 days he will also file a Civil Rights lawsuit . He also wants a formal written apology . Ha!

I hope Texas lives up to it's reputation in this situation.

[Jeff Dobbs]

new thread