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December 07, 2015

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henry

What happened to overwhelming force, shock, and awe? Beast the crap out of anything LBJ did with his WH controlled ramp up.

Dave (in MA)

Second! Ish!


OT, the drummer from Rush has called it quits,
http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/12/rushs-neil-peart-says-hes-retired-from-music/

"There comes a time to... take yourself out of the game"
Is he talking about himself, or is he reacting to the singing as exemplified by the video at the article?

Beasts of England

First

Beasts of England

Fudge! How embarrassing...

Beasts of England

I'll say it again: if the reps can't beat the pro-Islam, anti-gun party at this juncture, then a prolonged journey to the wilderness is absolutely deserved.

narciso

this was my post from last night, re some of the common elements of both attacks this month,

Cecil Turner
Now is not the time to commit U.S. combat brigades to Iraq or Syria. But if necessary, at some future date, it should be a part of a regional Arab and NATO coalition.
If you want to be in charge, you supply the preponderance of combat forces (i.e., ground troops). That's the way allies have been running this sort of thing for centuries, and that's the way it is now. Fighting wars with somebody else's troops is a cute concept, but it only works when they are defending their own homes (and even then it's dicey). Arabs and NATO aren't going to fight this one for us.

If we want to beat ISIS, we have to put in ground troops. All this other stuff is window-dressing.

Sandy Daze

Numbers, numbers, numbers.

10K combat troops, then you need the combat support, combat service support, the aviation units, the command staff and other bits and pieces. All told maybe upwards of 60k Americans, not counting contract support for logistics, food, waste management, and security. Brings initial footprint first year to about 100K, not counting coalition contributions.

NTTAWWT.

Radical islamic jihad fundamentalism delenda est

Isaiah 6:8

Sandy Daze

Limeys 10K
Frogs 5K
Germans 1K (discreet deployment)
Spanish 1K
Italians 1K
Canadians 500
Aussies 500
Egyptians 15K
Jordians 5K
Turks ?
Russians?

Cecil Turner

Brings initial footprint first year to about 100K, not counting coalition contributions.

You could do it with less than half that in country (log tail in Kuwait), if you wanted to keep the footprint light. Not sure why you'd want to.

But numbers tells less than half the story. In order to make export terrorism a tactic of the past, we'd have to change the ROE dramatically. And that'd involve accepting considerable collateral damage, killing a great big bunch of "civilian" fighters . . . and get a lot more draconian about how we treat war criminals who shed uniforms and weapons at the first sign of coalition troops.

FTL

Aiii. Son of a malacca. New post.

(Nice call on the Dabiq thing, host--excellent idea so far as I'm concerned)

Repeating myself from the superseded post:

This link was posted by Miss Marple this morning a few threads ago.

Anyone who hasn't clicked over to read it yet is really missing out.

http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/12/point-deer-make-horse

This cannot be fixed with logical arguments. That said, there are alternative approaches that stop short of bullet box or the ropes & lampposts some so richly deserve. Jumping with both feet into any budding anti-P.C. backlash is one.

Sandy Daze

I'd like to see the formation of voluntary units, Americans who want to go fight this evil, those who have served, but are not serving now, or some who bring unique skills.

Precedent exists, and some are there (over there, over there) right now fighting with the Kurds, but the effort is not properly joined up.

Sandy Daze

The Big Green Machine has trouble doing anything small, all specops, smaller footprint sure, but the force would be used and abused.

O'Neil on Fox Sunday morning said send the Marines to do the job.

10,000 hungry Marines, with a liberal ROE, and not more than five lawyers might do the trick, but I am not convinced that Ashton Carter and the milquetoast FOGOs have requisite imagination...

anonamom

sandydaze--great idea

lyle

Great link, FTL. I'd seen it earlier but just now read it. Thanks for posting it again.

henry

Yes, send more than enough combat guys and let them kick ass. The lawyer battalions should go on weapons inspection duty in Iran.

matt

The president's Secret Service call sign has been changed to "Total Pussy".

FTL

Great link, FTL. I'd seen it earlier but just now read it. Thanks for posting it again.

Not mine, sir. Not mine.

That was courtesy of The Divine Miss Marple.

lyle

Way to go, MM2!

matt

I think the problem with shock & awe at this stage is that everything has already had the crap beaten out of it.

Damascus, Palmyra, etc.....

Threadkiller

Anyone else watching Trump?

boatbuilder, Esq., Lord of All He Surveys

That John C. Wright "Point deer, make horse" link is indeed very good.

It certainly explains the CT congressional delegation.

Tollhouse

Shock and awe had the effect of beating the enemy before they even had a chance to realize they were beat. You can't win without destroying their will to resist. They need to know they are lost and can't possibly win. You can't do that by using magic technology. They actually think we are weak because we can kill any of them instantly from around the world and we won't because they are in a mosque.

The Infamous Ignatz

There is some type of mathematical or physical paradox or maybe a vortex at work in the Middle East.

All armies, Israelis and possibly the Kurds, regardless of training, numbers or equipment, invariably fight savagely but incompetently to a stalemate of provisional, fluid borders until some external power decides to kill them all and establish temporary order.

It's like hundreds of warring ant nests scuttling about to and fro for centuries biting each others legs and heads off but never accomplishing a thing.

The Infamous Ignatz

*except* Israelis...

jimmyk

I don't see why we can't throw in a credible threat to nuke Raqqa, blow up the dome of the rock, turn Mecca into glass. I would think even the Jihadis might think twice about any kind of serious attack if that were the response.

narciso

the ypg do fight unlike the others, but even their determination has limits, so are their complement of supplies,

Miss Marple 2

Saw a clip on Greta, TK. Unfortunately, this computer has no sound. I will have to go find it on YouTuube later on my iPad.

He seems unapologetic about his statement. I left a long comment on the last thread about how I do not think his statement today about "keeping Muslims out until we know what's going on" is playing well in Peoria, even if it doesn't inside the Beltway.

Miss Marple 2

Oops. I meant the statement plays well in Peoria, not in the Beltway.

jimmyk

About Loretta Lynch:

It turns out that Lynch was a member of the radical Harvard Black Law Students Association (BALSA) from 1981 through 1984, and each year that she was a member, the group brought terrorist sympathizers to Harvard from the Palestinian Liberation Operation (PLO) — while denying Jewish student organizations the chance to participate in a campus forum. This move was so extreme that the Harvard Crimson even condemned the BLSA.

http://victorygirlsblog.com/loretta-lynch-was-a-member-of-a-harvard-group-of-anti-semitic-terrorist-sympathizers/

Tollhouse

What you see in the mideast isn't western style warfare, you are seeing raiding/razzia tactics. These are attack where your enemy is weak, flee whenever the enemy fights back. They attack from secure areas, raise some hell, and then back home. There isn't any strategic or even tactical objectives, the objective is the terror raid.

narciso

they posted that one quickly,

http://therightscoop.com/trump-defends-muslim-immigration-ban-on-fox-news-full-interview/

JMHanes

In re, Obama instructing Congress to "authorize the continued use of military force against ISIL"

Once the political necessity of doing something about Syria/ISIS became clear, Obama started maneuvering for authorization, but I think it's because he was looking for potential "partners" to share the blame if things did not go well.

Perhaps others will recall that back in July of 2014, he had Susan Rice petition John Boehner to completely rescind the Iraq AUMF, when Congress was already resolving to oppose intervention in Iraq. I remember thinking the timing was very odd, but only somewhat later realized that they already knew how badly wrong things were going on the ground, and that the epic proportions of the unfolding humanitarian disaster would soon become clear. I believe they were desperately trying to create an ironclad excuse for doing nothing.

narciso

and here is the event that bridges the two interventions,


http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/07/pentagon-confirms-u-s-airstrikes-kill-top-isis-leader-in-libya/

jimmyk

I hope no sane person thinks that killing a "leader" accomplishes anything. For every one killed there are more to step in. Only massive and overwhelming force will accomplish anything.

Rick Ballard

I don't see a way to support deployment of ground troops while the buffoon is in office and his Pattycake ROE are in effect. I fully support continuous bombing, first to remove the oil money fueling IS and second to level Raqqa and Mosul on a block by block basis until the Sunni who live there and support IS grow so weary they take up arms and drive them out to be slaughtered.

It's a Sunni problem, make the Sunni pay the full blood price to correct it.

JMHanes

Yes, jimmyk, between alQaeda and ISIS, I've lost count of the all the leaders, and high value targets, we've done away with. It always seemed particularly meaningless when we were dealing with decentralized, distributed units and networks.

narciso

now we only need to know who from,

https://mobile.twitter.com/TomDickson/status/674032514080464896

JMHanes

Via Instapundit :

And as Gay Patriot notes, “Once again, Donald Trump steps on a negative news cycle for Obama.”

Momto2

Very good piece about Yale (off topic unless the broad topic is "What is this world coming to?"....)

Yale

lyle

One word bomb: MOAB.

peter

posts just come and go like mirages in the desert here on Typhus pad.

Threadkiller

Stuff like Gay Patriots moaning is probably why I spend time defending Trump, Ig.

I will try to think of how GP is being positive here before I comment further.

narciso

the fundamental problem is that nothing gets done as long as Obama is in office, he hired Hamas fanboi Robert Malley as his ISIS coordinator, Slithering Harry Reid didn't get the memo,

the Iranians are moving not only with missile development but compatible missile platforms,

Dave (in MA)

Suspended
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQu93b2X2E
Suspended
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MvFkc5Xdyk
Should be susbpended by his thumbs

2 weeks in the penalty box each.

Dave (in MA)

Zero should be...

Miss Marple 2

Trump inserted himself in the news cycle once it became clear Obama wasn't going to do anything.

It is actually a pretty good campaign trick.

He's taking advantage of public sentiment to get more people listening to him.

Whether it is a good idea for the country that people get riled up, I don't know. I am only describing what is going on.

If you had to make me take a stand, I would say his numbers will go up, not down.

But then I thought Romney was a slam-dunk, so pay no attention to my opinion.

Stephanie

Not a Yuge deal GP. The Obama news cycle was more of the same from him and easily acknowledged and moved on by most voters. Just confirmation of yesterday's news and the week before's.

The Donald has launched the vanguard again and from what I see on FB, the only ones with their panties in a bunch are the coasties and the lefties which, whiners are gonna whine.

When you drill into the visa and travel visa and other visa programs, we are not able to vet anyone coming in with sufficient scrutiny whether it be a 'vacation' claim, a 'refugee' claim or a 'fiance/marriage' claim.

How many French radicals of muslim persuasion could book a trip to WDW and claim a vacation and come here and do damage? All you would need is to have some local jihadis pre-stage the necessities here for the attack and have a few 'gay' muslims fly in for Gay pride at WDW and not a damn one of the people at Homeland or INS would dare bat an eye in their direction.

The entire system is ripe for infiltration and Trump is justly calling for a a pause and a relook at EVERYONE who is allowed in... starting with the self id'd muzzies.

Miss Marple 2

Gorka is on Kelly File again. Just thought I would give you all a heads up. He will be up in a few minutes.

Threadkiller

It seems GP's strategy in the car race is to hope that Obama's ditch-mobile runs out of gas before the finish line.

Trump should have been praying with GP for the same outcome instead of concentrating on getting to the finish line first and driving around Wreck-it-Ramadan.

Silent mode does not help Odummys numbers crater. It does, however, help the odds of one of our major cities turn into a crater.

Threadkiller

It seems GP's strategy in the car race is to hope that Obama's ditch-mobile runs out of gas before the finish line.

Trump should have been praying with GP for the same outcome instead of concentrating on getting to the finish line first and driving around Wreck-it-Ramadan.

Silent mode does not help Odummys numbers crater. It does, however, help the odds of one of our major cities turn into a crater.

James D.

And that'd involve accepting considerable collateral damage, killing a great big bunch of "civilian" fighters . . . and get a lot more draconian about how we treat war criminals who shed uniforms and weapons at the first sign of coalition troops.

I don't see a problem with any of this. I suspect a strong majority of Americans outside of Manhattan/DC/Hollywood would not, either.

Stephanie

Sample from FB on the Donald's recent statement:

He isn't just running his mouth because he can afford to do just that. This dude hasn't been proven wrong on anything he has siad. Everyone else running Dumocrat or Republican just play the Political Correctness Garbage. Maybe it's time for something other than a Career Politician with Hundreds of Favors to repay once elected. ‪#‎TRUMP2016‬

GMax

I stand with Ralph Peters. Who will join me?

Threadkiller

I stand with GMax!

Momto2

If one person has posted this on FB I bet thousands have - it's the M&M analogy - complete with colored photo - if you have a bowl of all of these M&M's and knew only 10 were deadly poison but the rest were safe - how many would you eat?

Trump is tapping into the majority that say "none!!!"
or at least have them tested. Maybe if they would just give you a headache or temporary illness you might chance it but we're talking about DEATH. All mixed in with the pretty colorful nice Muslim candies that are sweet and harmless are the ones that kill and you can't tell them apart. What should you do????

narciso

cruz's plan is a more practical notion, however it still falls afoul of the vetting issues,, by next year, there will be huge Islamistm cohort coming from Europe, if they are not already there,h

the slayers in Woolwich, and Paris, and Sydney were already longtime residents there, the last Al Shahaab leader to go 'norwegian blue' was an American,

Miss Marple 2

Gorka says we should stop using the term radicalized. We never talked about Nazis been Nazified or Comminists being Communized.

He says this puts the burden on someone else and not the people who CHOOSE to wage jihad.

Momto2

I love everything he says MM. (Gorka) Let's put him somewhere important!

Sandy Daze

As pertinent today as when he (VDH) wrote it 14 years ago, excerpt:

"... But Patton, like William Tecumseh Sherman, would insist that it is only by military defeat and subsequent humiliation first that the supporters of terrorism against the West will understand the wages of their support for Islamic fascism. Once people in the Middle East, like the Germans, see that the Islamic fascists are defeated—and that everybody who supports and condones that ideology are synonymous with it and thus must pay for their complicity through some measure of sacrifice and suffering—radical bellicose Islamicism really will end. Patton was quite clear about defeating, humiliating, and then helping Germans—the proper order of such a progression in attitude being absolutely critical.... "


http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/?p=4565

Miss Marple 2

Momto2,

I love listening him, too! He cuts right through all the carp and tells it like it is in a very stern and eloquent manner.

Also, he has a great voice!

narciso

we can add another to that lisr

https://twitter.com/JammieWF/status/674025015831101440

DublinDaveForever

It's over.

Threadkiller

My wife asks an interesting question. Are the individual photos of Jihadi #1 & #2 from driver's licenses?

narciso

I know consider the source,


https://news.vice.com/article/khan-is-gone-new-details-emerge-about-the-us-blogger-killed-in-a-cia-drone-strike?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

GMax

The only thing standing between the Dallas Cowboys and the 1st pick in the NFL draft is that the Cleveland Browns are even more futile. But the Cowboys are tied for the 2nd pick, with San Diego and Tennessee. If the Redskins will find some offense and quit punting the ball every 4th offensive play, we will continue our pursuit of that top pick...

clarice

I don't think so--wife refused to drive.

JMHanes

Rick Ballard:

"I don't see a way to support deployment of ground troops while the buffoon is in office and his Pattycake ROE are in effect. I"

I'm with you Rick. The fighting men and women with the guts to serve under this "Commander-in-Chief" should be getting hazardous duty bonuses up front. Bless 'em, every one.

Sandy Daze

The problem is, in waging ever more technologically precise warfare, "smart bombs" "pinpoint targeting" we have developed kinetic precision excellence in inverse relationship to psychological humiliation and domination.

That is, until their minds, their very thoughts are conquered, the body count just will not matter.

Another, if imprecise example, the USS Vincennes shoot down of an Iranian airliner visited a certain psychological karma on the Persians, they called down, if only briefly.

Not until all muslim arabs understand and SUBMIT to western will, not until then will victory (and security) be realized, and even then after a few centuries, they will come back again.

Sandy Daze

A quicker, a more expedient approach is B61 over mecca, not very likely, but that would /WORLD create A "safe space" for the West.

Sandy Daze

would /WOULD

narciso

wouldn't that be the proverbial kicking over a hornet's nest,

Momto2

So two weeks before the attack - Farook deposited $28,500 in his checking account - then he withdrew $5000 three times and transferred into his mother's account.

If I put $15,000 in my mom's checking account you'd better believe she would want to know where it came from. I sincerely believe she was in on it. What do you think?

Sandy Daze

But none of these options, even Jack Keene's 10K--even that will not happen under this regime (with the necessary ROE), absent another WTC-magnitude attack.

Rick Ballard

It would be far better to kill Saudi princes (particularly royals) than put American troops back into the Iraqi cesspool to chase the Saudi's Sunni tools. If we're not willing to deal with the real Black Widows then we are better off conducting Sherman's march to the sea via air beginning one block at a time in Raqqa and Mosul.

Tollhouse

Not sure that would result in anything positive. You can see in the shia version of islam, losing the hereditary leadership, supposedly promised of god, simply allowed shia religious leaders to develop doctrines that were explicitly contrary to sunni thought. If they lost Mecca or the Kabah or some other holy place they would just shift doctrines to account.

For a literal religion, there has been much add on texts and interpretations over history, largely due to fratricide amongst muslims and of course the world completely bypassing and escliping the muslim world since the 16th century.

narciso


this is what the vaunted islamic state, was proud of when tub of lard moore, called them the resistance,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3702710.stm

Sandy Daze

Either we are committed to victory, or we are not.

As has been observed by others (Wretchard ?) 43 was actually the best hope the arab muzzies had...

Since 44 threw that chance away, the likelihood of a more "significant" response has greatly increased.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has any appetite for nation building any longer.

We do have an appetite for nation destroying, particularly when WTC-magnitude attack (s) occur.

When that attack comes,

"... Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war... "

Sandy Daze

In that day, the idea of (the horror) banning muzzies from entering America, will seem so quaint...

narciso

well Sandy, know the terrain more then most, I still worry, 'this is not the beginning of the end,
but the end of the beginning'

Sandy Daze

Completely agree, narc.

Sandy Daze

Completely agree, narc.

Tollhouse

Just wait till Egypt explodes. Ten years maybe? The Euros will have to act at that point. They won't have a choice in the matter.

The Infamous Ignatz

--Gorka says we should stop using the term radicalized. We never talked about Nazis been Nazified or Comminists being Communized.

He says this puts the burden on someone else and not the people who CHOOSE to wage jihad.--

Oh my gosh, the guy sounds like a veritable genius.
Somebody said something almost identical a thread or two ago. Can't remember who it was now.....:)

The Infamous Ignatz

The Gay Patriot comment was retarded, TK.
But his stupidity doesn't translate into a more trustworthy Trump, only a less trustworthy GP.

JMHanes

Is anyone here familiar with the Christians at Risk organization, which per their website appears to be operated by the Knights of Columbus? They ran an appeal on one of the news channels, for funds to aid persecuted Christians in the Middle East, which seems like something worth doing in one way or another.

Threadkiller

Agreed, Ig.

narciso

they will find any reason to ride a squirrel.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/ken-shepherd/2015/12/07/iran-tests-missile-thumbing-nose-un-obama-administration-networks

Sandy Daze

JMH, a few weeks ago our priest brought in the group "Save Iraqi Christians"
Seemed legit, websites :
www.helpiraq.org
www.adoptarefugeefamily.org
www.merci.help.iraq.org

But on balance, I strongly prefer Clarice's brilliant idea to resettle all displaced /refugee middle east Christians in Italy.

Italy's native birthrate is about .3 meaning it is a country rapidly growing old, with very few children soon to be supplanted by North African muzzies.

At least with middle eastern Christians, the culture will stand some small chance to not too radically changing. Moreover, Italy is closer and southern Italy is similar environment.


JMHanes

Thanks Sandy, I'll check them out. Love the Italian idea too!

Stephanie

new fred.

Anthony

It's not our war -- let's stay out. What is wrong with that?

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame