Banning Alien Muslims - Constitutional Or Not?

In a conversation inspired by the rantings of The Donald several experts [Posner, Volokh, Gershman of the WSJ, Krikorian of NRO] have opined that the President's power to bar Muslims is probably Constitutional. Interesting.. One takeaway is that, at a minimum, Trumps critics who insist his proposal is blatantly, transparently unconstitutional are overstating the simplicity of the issue.

Hmm. If I had to bet on myself over Prof. Volokh I would back the Prof almost every time. Almost!

But my position is that if the President imposed a ban on Muslims based on a religious test (not, for example, country of origin or national security screening) then Muslim-Americans would sue and win.

Their first argument would be that family reunification has been a cornerstone of US immigration policy, which means they are being denied equal protection for religious reasons. Find someone whose (sympathetic) mother or daughter is still an alien abroad, gain standing, win.

Their second claim is that restricting entry based on religion may put the US on a road to establishing a de facto Christian-Judeo state religion simply by excluding alternative religions.

The Supreme Court Justices will think about America's history as a beacon of religious freedom, ponder the reputations of the bright lights that gave us Dred Scott and Korematsu, and find for the plaintiffs.

My bet, anyway.

WAFFLING QUIBBLING: Family reunification is the current US policy but it could be changed. The plaintiffs might win given current US policy but changing the policy so that they won't win might not be that difficult. In which case, is it fair to say they won on the basis of Constitutional protections?

Or is that too abstract? To switch gears, suppose the Feds and the states fulfilled the libertarian dream and got completely out of the marriage racket, performing only secular civil unions. Gays would then be eligible for unions but (I presume) lose their right to gay "marriages", since religious organizations cannot be compelled to perform them.

But no one is arguing that gays didn't win on the basis of a Constitutional right.

This can be overthought. Trump is energizing his base, not expanding it, and the last man (or woman!) standing will beat him.

OKAY, REALLY WAFFLING: My legal objections would amount to nothing if Trump announced a six month moratorium on Muslim immigration pending new guidelines. And per Krikorian he certainly seems to have statutory authority. Hmmph...

Comments

[Comanche Voter]

Maybe Tom--maybe. But I look back to the "Yellow Peril" immigration rules of the early 20th century that effectively barred all Orientals from entering the country.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Don't forget Plessy Ferguson for a hat trick of supreme idiocy.

Article V: Rescind Marbury Madison.

[Sandy Daze]

Trump is energizing his base, not expanding it, and the last man (or woman!) standing will beat him.

I think he is doing both.

The other thing he is doing is exposing with arc lights, the mendaciousness of the WDC cabal. Saw Ryan saying this is not who we are or some such drivel. Just when I was beginning to think he would be tolerable as speaker, he reveals himself to be another pea in the pod.

[Billy Beer]

"Carter Banned Iranians from Coming to US During Hostage Crisis"

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/261062/carter-banned-iranians-coming-us-during-hostage-daniel-greenfield

[Sandy Daze]

Immigration without assimilation is cultural suicide.
We have paused immigration previously, no reason why it could not be done again.

Sure, let it go through the courts. By the time the challenge and appeals wind their way through the system the pause will have defacto taken place.

http://www.immigrationeis.org/about-ieis/us-immigration-history

Excerpt:

From about 1880 through the mid-1920s, America experi­enced an immigration boom, “the Great Wave,” during which immigration averaged 600,000 annually. This was the period during which the U.S. industrialized, creating a huge demand for factory workers. The demand was filled primarily by European immigrants; particularly, in its second half, with immigrants from southern and eastern Europe.

In 1924 and 1926, partly in response to pressure from labor unions, Congress put in place the first comprehensive quota systems to limit immigration into the U.S. For the next 40 years, from 1925 to 1965, the United States had a relatively restrictive immigration policy, which allowed 200,000 people into the country annually, on average. Demographers sometimes call this period “the Great Pause,” although at the time, most Americans thought of it as permanent.

[Beloved Aunt]

"Poll: Trump’s rhetoric on Islam boosts him in NC primary"

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/262463-poll-trumps-rhetoric-on-islam-boosts-him-in-nc-primary

[Johns_Creek_Bill]

It sounds impolitic, however, Trump does have a point.

If I were PIAPS I would be nervous - one more San Bernardino type attack by a goat rapist here legally on a visa (especially if it is issued after 12/4/15) and Oprah will be singing loud.

[Threadkiller]

...imposed a ban on Muslims based on a religious test (not, for example, country of origin...

I think they are synonymous.

Muslims have no country of origin; they have a caliphate in waiting.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

I'll cut Private Munster some slack and assume that Johnny B had a private cry when SOMEHOW Syrian Christans weren't able to escape oppression by immigrating here.

[Johns_Creek_Bill]

OT - Today is the 35th anniversary of me hearing from Howard Cosell that John Lennon had been shot.

RIP John.

John Lennon - A man whose taste in women was worse than Bill Clinton's.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Saw Ryan saying this is not who we are or some such drivel.--

Why is it so hard for these dumbasses to say "He's running for pres. I'm the speaker of the house. He can say what he wants in his campaign. I have no comment on it. Next."

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Thanks, Sandy, I was about to post that about how long court challenges would take. Muzzies don't assimilate unless you are one of them and go to the mosque. Look at Europe: Netherlands, France, Italy, Sweden and the UK. Sure there are few token professionals and even pols that "represent" their Muzzie communities. Its very cosmetic.

There is a madness, anger and violence inbred into this religion. You only have to live in the sand box or even moderate islamic states like Malaysia or Indonesia to witness it. To think someone coming from Pakistan can be fully vetted is a joke. It wouldn't surprise me if Tashfeen turns out to be an ISI trained plant.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Some online lender named Prosper loaned the jihadi bastards the $28,000.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

And here is a story on Prosper, a P2P lender.

[Sandy Daze]

The lawfare through the courts has been well used to obstructy, delay, and deflect criticism by this administration. And when that did not work, the resident just said that the court ruled in their favor (even when it did not). No reason at all why this idea (limiting muzzie immigration or mmore broadly from muzzie countries) could not follow the same example. The left knows that Trump knows that
1) he is right, and
2) even if he is not right, he can still act now (well in a year or so) and then drag it out in the courts

At least, Ma & Pa Kwettle wonder why the resident can do this kind of thing, and the repubs cannot seem to find the way out of a paper bag.

What Trump is saying, "I know how to get from A to B. Follow me."

A lot more refreshing than the current gruel offered.

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Iggy,

I wonder if there were any recent articles in Dabiq or Inspire on how to use Prosper and/or P2P loans? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Test

[lyle]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/did-trump-just-win-1449604108?tesla=y

Taranto makes some good points.

Thus Trump’s proposal for a pause in Muslim immigration “until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on” strikes us as entirely reasonable. That’s not to say it’s necessarily a good idea. There are potential costs in American-Muslim relations both internationally and domestically, and humanitarian costs as well. There are practical questions about how it would be implemented. The religious-freedom argument, although legally empty, is not without moral force.

Instead of debating the proposal in a reasoned way, the political class—both parties—and many in the media are treating it as a thoughtcrime. Yet the PRRI poll suggests a large majority of Americans are thinking along similar lines.

In keeping with my personal moratorium on Trump commentary (neither pro nor contra), I'll just echo what others have said here: love him or hate him, Trump is forcing the fetid, incestuous, political class and the media whores in this nation to confront issues they'd very much not like to confront. That the political criminal class and the whores are reacting precisely as one would expect makes me grimly satisfied with Trump's bellicosity.

Mencken:

A national political campaign is better than the best circus ever heard of, with a mass baptism and a couple of hangings thrown in.

If only on the hangings...

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

lyle,

Not only all of the above in your post but he is also bringing out of the woodwork the so called moderate muzzies, the CAIR disguised threat muzzie apologists, the muzzie extremist and even the sharia pushers here in America.

Watch what happens in the next few weeks, we will finally have a discussion on our immigration policies and relationship with Islam here in America. Good.

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

From Bill Kristol:

Presidential Poll Results

Well, the results of this week's presidential straw ballot were interesting. For the first time in our seven straw polls, Ted Cruz took the lead, with 30% of the first place votes, closely followed by Marco Rubio with 26%, and Donald Trump with 17%. No one else was chosen first by more than 6% of you.

Here's the tally: the first number is the percentage of the ballots on which the candidate was selected for first place; the second is the percentage of ballots in which the candidate was chosen for any of first, second or third.

Ted Cruz 30% 66%

Marco Rubio 26% 60%

Donald Trump 17% 32%

Ben Carson 6% 28%

Chris Christie 5% 28%

Carly Fiorina 4% 32%

Mike Huckabee 3% 13%

Jeb Bush 3% 13%

Rand Paul 3% 10%

John Kasich 2% 10%

Rick Santorum -- % 2%

[new lurker]

Well, I am with Iggie some posts back when he said that Donald Trump is saying what our parents and grandparents said--defeat the enemy and win the war!

[henry]

The WI AG is getting tough on the John Doe prosecutors. A letter for now, but this guy is from GUS's county. More to come.

[Skoot]

Taranto nailed it. Trump says we don't know which muslims are on the brink of murder. The response is "how dare you speak like that, why, these muslims are a breath away from murder."

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Islam is completely incompatible with individual freedom, in every sense of this sacred endowment. The imams will ensure all Islamic followers across America take up arms or legal barricades against us, when and if they think we've been softened up enough to conquer. A prominent Imam recently was quoted saying, "There is no such thing as moderate Islam - Islam is Islam". A worldwide caliphate is their goal, and for the life of me, I don't understand why we're helping them build it!

How does any sane person think we can welcome hundreds of thousands of Muslims into our society, without eventually paying a horrific price?

[daddy on iPad]

Way way behind, but as I drive around hearing all the slamming of Trump for his "Un-American" targeting/focusing on Muslim's, let me ask this:

Why the hell, when our President tells his head of NASA that his top priority is to reach out to the Muslim World and only the Muslim World, and tell them how great they have been in contributing to the Space Program, why isn't that the same thing? Did the President tell the NASA Head to reach out to the Jews, who were a hell of a lot more important to the Space Program than Muslims have ever been? No.

How about Hindus? Their great math accomplishments, inventing zero and inventing our numeral system? And their great mathematicians over the last 1500 years including Ramanujan and Chandrashekar? Why the hell didn't the President order his NASA flunky to reach out and congratulate them for their great scientific contributions? Why didn't' he reach out to them?

How about the Chinese? Their science was absolutely brilliant. We would have got nowhere without their invention of gun powder and paper and metallurgy and clocks and a ton of other tangential stuff. Why didn't the President tell his NASA Head to target them for kudos?

How about the Russians? How come he didn't send out his NASA Head to make it his number 1 Priority to pat the Russians and their Greek/Russian Church history on the back for their very real contributions to Space programs?

How about the great ancient cultures surrounding the Mediterranean: The Babylonians and their Math, the Egyptian mathematicians, The Unbelievable achievements of the Greeks and Greek Science, and then the Romans as well. Why are none of them worthy of being singled out by this President?

Then last of all, Christians and Western Civilization in general. Why didn't the President send out his NASA head to make it his highest priority to reach out and thank Christians and Western Civilization for their contributions to NASA and Space Travel? Why the hell not? Why only focus on 1 religion, Islam, and their fairly non-existent contribution to Any of this? All those other religions and cultures I mentioned did as much if not one hell of a lot more than Islam to contribute to our Space Program, yet the President decides to only focus on one Culture, one Religion---Islam. Only Islam is deserving of Official recognition of their achievements to the Space Program and only Islam is named as the top priority for our NASA Head to go out and praise and engage in official outreach as part of his NASA Head chief duties. Why the hell is that? What's the big deal about Trump focusing on Islam iwhen Obama does the same thing every damn day and we have to fund it?

I'm sick of the hypocrisy. The President can focus only on Islam, only on Muslims, and supposedly that's 100% fine. Yet Trump decides to focus on that exact same group, that same Religion, Islam, but that's out of bounds under some idiotic PC assumption that it's "Un-American" in this country to only focus on 1 Religion.

Horseshit.

[Gus]

They are all afraid of Trump AND Cruz.

The GOP lightweight pansies, are sitting in FIRST CLASS, bitching about and ripping Trump and Cruz.
They are saying the Pilot and Co-pilot suck and should quit flying the plane.
Yet none of those left seems to have a Pilot's license.
The GOP will commit suicide FOR US, unless they get Jeb Bush or possibly Rubio.

[NK]

daddy-- I am thinking a winning majority of voters agree with your 6:43.

[NK]

I think this is pretty representative; the Muzzies say FU to the rest of us. They really do look for the strong horse, rich , poor, it matters not, they all fall in line with the powerful: http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/08/some-muslims-pretty-irritated-at-being-asked-to-help-root-out-extremism/

[Jack is Back!]

Daddy,

Thank you for reading all those books so we don't have to and summarize your thoughts so succinctly and spot on. Keep flying so we can all get smarter✈️

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

How are the gun grabbers able to make this statement?

"backers of the measure cite Government Accountability Office data that show more than 2,000 people on the list bought firearms from 2004 to 2014"

IIRC - The NICS federal background checks for gun purchases *prohibits* the feds from retaining any record of the name, address, and other personal information of the purchasers of firearms. The NICS system is prevented by law from becoming a database of gun purchasers.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-register-october-30-1998-on-nics

So, how on Earth do the feds/GAO know that 2,000 people on the list bought firearms?
Is there some federal registry of gun purchases that the public isn't aware of?
The feds/GAO do not have access to dealers' sales records in aggregate, do they?

Or, are there enough states that require gun registration to enable the feds/GAO to identify 2,000 purchases from the states' registration info?
But how would the feds/GAO have access to state registration info?

The graphic from TM's earlier thread originated from the White House, but the original contains the following wording, which does not cite the GAO as above:

"The need to act could not be more clear. From 2004 to 2014, for example, 2,000 people on the terror watch list were able to purchase guns."

I'm thinking it's likely the gun grabbers are making up the GAO part, since oBOzo's White House isn't citing the GAO in their claims. But, it is oBOzo, so the default position is to "lie, lie, lie" at every opportunity, so who knows?
Here's the White House link: (Beware, massive propaganda warning!)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/12/05/president-obama-addresses-nation-keeping-american-people-safe

(Apologies for the length of this)

[henry]

Rights and due process are for military aged Syrian Islamic-fascist men -- not for citizen gun owners.

[FTL]

The left are condemning Trump harder for putting the immigration pause idea out there than they condemned the San Bernardino terrorists for sending jihadboy's coworkers hot lead and pipebombs instead of thank you cards for the nice baby shower they organized.

GOPe is falling over themselves to show their inside-the-beltway collectivist masters that the deer really is a horse.

The public at large are supportive of a pause.

The big question: Does the public at large start questioning other whoppers they are constantly told that simply are not so, or do they Gell-Mann Amnesia their way to the next speech/newscast/campaign commercial?

[Jeff Dobbs]

Daddy,

It helps to remember that Obama thinks the root cause of Muslims turning to terrorism is tied inextricably with poverty and a sense of grievance.

I'm not defending his stupidity, but if that's what you thought, then Muslim outreach on the level of telling them how wonderful they are makes some stupid sense.

Back in 2008, The American Prospect did a big, long piece on "the Obama Doctrine" which ultimately came down to this:

They envision a doctrine that first ends the politics of fear and then moves beyond a hollow, sloganeering "democracy promotion" agenda in favor of "dignity promotion," to fix the conditions of misery that breed anti-Americanism and prevent liberty, justice, and prosperity from taking root.

I remember it because at the time I mocked it by liking the Obama Doctrine to a Stuart Smalley "daily affirmation"

[DublinDaveForever]

What I love about the Trump/GOP proposal of banning all Muslims from the United States(including those serving in the U.S armed forces)is it scares the shit out of the Jewish-American community.Even Israeli media has universally condemned it and forget about Jewish groups here in the U.S....they're up in fucking arms.

I mean it just about raises every single mental red-flag Jews have.It's going to consolidate them as a Democratic voting bloc in the future.We lost a few per cent of them in 2012...I have a feeling we'll get them back plus some.

Also,the GOP plan basically lights up every minority fear imaginable(then they came for me blah blah).

I don't think the GOP will see the inside of the White house for the next 70 years.I also believe mid-term participation is going to increase from here on out.

Thanks.

[henry]

FWIW: the Scott Adams Master Persuader take. It offers one answer to FTL's question, and given the educational focus on feelings these days he may be on to something.

[Jeb Who]

"Poll: Donald Trump nearly doubles lead in New Hampshire"

"Overall, 32% say they support Trump (up 6 points since September), with Rubio a distant second place with 14% (up 5 points). That 18-point lead is almost double the 10-point lead Trump held in September over businesswoman Carly Fiorina.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie holds third place in the new poll with 9%, followed closely by former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (8%), Ohio Gov. John Kasich (7%), Texas Sen. Ted Cruz (6%), and both businesswoman Carly Fiorina and former neurosurgeon Ben Carson at 5%. Fiorina has dropped 11 points since the September poll.

The CNN/WMUR poll was conducted by the University of New Hampshire Survey Center by telephone from November 30-December 7"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/donald-trump-poll-new-hampshire/

[Jeff Dobbs]

Wow!

So after I mentioned the Mosconi Cup being tied 3-3 . . . the Euros won the next 3 matches to go up 6-3.

The last match of the day just ended. The Euros were in control of the match the whole way and the Americans were missing some easy shots. They fought back to get to hill-hill (both teams needing one win to take the match).

After the Euros tried a safety, Shane Van Boening was left with a full table run at the two ball which had no pocket. Two choices . . . return a safety or carom off the two and try to pocket the nine in the corner for the win. Very difficult, low probability shot.

He absof'inlutely nailed it. Like a boss.

Still leaves US down 4-6 going into tomorrow. But that was a huge pick me up for the Americans to end the day.

[DublinDaveForever]

United Kingdom attempting to ban Donald Trump and the GOP from ever entering their country again.

[Rick Ballard]

Constitutional? How can one endeavor to forecast the outcome of a Nine Monkey sophistry contest? We really can't know until we read the feces on the wall.

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Well we know that the Irish are looked on the same way in the UK. What's new? If anyone knows about terrorisim against innocent people its the Irish. In fact, I think the IRA was a partner with a numbrer of the same Islamic terrorists we are trying to suppress.

Are you a terror sympathizer Dave? Did you put dollars in the barrells at Gaelic Park on Sundays in the Bronx?

[squaredance]

Side-stepping for a moment the very real issue of whether or not there was any "science" at all before the introduction of rigorous empirical methods, the notion that there was any actual and real "golden age" of Islamic science is pure multicult claptrap. There in fact is no such thing at all in Islamic culture such as it was or is today. What accomplishments there were were really the inheritance of the Persian, most immediately formed by the Sassanids who in turn inherited the rich synthesis of Hellenic, Roman and Ancient middle Eastern culture (including the Egyptian input) through the Seleucids and the Greco Bactrians. And of course there is a importation of Indian and Indo-Ayran influence and ideas as well.

Thus the notion of a glorious Islamic civilization during the first few centuries of Islam--the so called "Caliphate" perio--is completely untrue. In fact Islam was a calamity for Civilization throughout the Islamic lands, and was so long before the Turkic/Mongolian intrusions and conversion. Obviously, after the Central Asian invaders converted what came forward was perhaps the worse barbarian destruction in history. One could make the case that is was worse than the barbarian invasion of the Western Roamn Empire. Native Hindu/Buddhist Indian intellectual culture, for example, was almost completely extinguished there.

This myth of Islamic accomplishment is a modern notion thrown out in desperation by Muslims in order to some how excuse the very real fact that their civilization is a primitive one stuck in the medieval period, and this propaganda is further push about by the usual Western hating Leftist in academia and elsewhere. In the former case it is a sort of mass delusional narcissism; in the later case it is treason.

Informed and educated Leftist know it is a lie, but still they repeat it. Why? Because they view Islam as a partner in their destruction of the West in general and the USA in particular.

(and I would argue that there is "Chinese science" is practically certainly not "brilliant", and rather not "science" at all.)

The real marvels, the real precursors to what we call science today are the wonders of the Greeks and the Indians, particularly their mathematicians. It is not really true that the discovery of algebra came out of converted Persians--its real discovery comes to us through India. The introduction formal proofs and methods by the Greeks is one of the great watersheds in history.)

As a matter of fact, modern science and mathematics, and with these the major part of modern rational engineering, are almost wholly a creation of Western Civilization.

When the left tries to convince us otherwise they great violence against us.

[windansea]

Apologies to TM and others arguing the legal points is Trump position constitutional etc

Don't. fucking. care.

Don't want Sharia law in my country and don't want to protect anyone who wants it here.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

That Trump fellow might not be a seasoned politician but he's certainly adept at producing terrible behavior by his detractors.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--What accomplishments there were were really the inheritance of the Persian, most immediately formed by the Sassanids who in turn inherited the rich synthesis of Hellenic, Roman and Ancient middle Eastern culture (including the Egyptian input) through the Seleucids and the Greco Bactrians.--

Also, many of the great "islamic" and "arabic" brains were jews and christians caught up in the wave of muslim conquest and who either labored as dhimmis, faked conversion or actually did convert.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

windandsea - Amen.

(And thanks for re-posting the BMW forum link!)

[Threadkiller]

he's certainly adept at producing terrible behavior by his detractors.

It is a curse for some of us.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--he's certainly adept at producing terrible behavior by his detractors--

Not only that but he's got a way of showing us just how stupid they are as they keep kicking themselves in the head the same damn way every time, while trying to put the boot to him.

[squaredance]

It is pretty rich to here the Left whinge about constitutional issues, particularity whe the first things that came out of them after this last shooting where pointed and open attacks on the first and second amendment.

The country should really be aghast at Obama's attempt to disarm us and silence us after such a failure to protect us, not worrying about Trumps quite reasonable suggestion that we place pause on Muslim immigration until we sort this out.

Our grandparents would of course side with Trump; they would not recognize the degraded nation we have become.

The fact that this is even controversial shows just how decadent 50 years of Leftist brainwashing has made us.

[squaredance]

Iggy, in fact most of them were Christians, with a smattering of Jews. This is particularly true in the area of translation of the classics and classical philology in general throughout that period.

Oh, and also it is a complete myth that Islam played a major role in"transmitting Greek classical literature. There were Greeks enough in Byzantium for that. We now know that knowledge of the classics through the middle ages was broader than once thought--in fact during the Renaissance much of the literature recovered was found in European monasteries. That which was not discovered there was brought by Greeks fleeing the fall of Constantinople or, prior to that, scholars visiting said city.

the Mulicult hucksters are practically incapable of uttering one truth about the hisory of the West

[windansea]

The fact that this is even controversial shows just how decadent 50 years of Leftist brainwashing has made us.

Exactly, we're hosting a legal argument with people who want to destroy us using our own constitution and laws.

[Sandy Daze]

Squaredance,

I am always interested in your views (not that my interest or lack thereof mean anything whatsoever); although some of your earlier posts, while good, tended to singe my corneas.

Saying that, I want to compliment your excellent 1941 & 1954 contributions.

Thank you.

[Momto2]

White House attacks Trump's hair (but won't call the terrorists Islamic or Muslim).

'Let me just step back and say that the Trump campaign for months now has had a dustbin-of-history-like quality to it. From the vacuous sloganeering to the outright lies, to even the fake hair, the whole carnival barker routine that we've seen for some time now.' Josh Earnest today....

[squaredance]

Thanks Sandy.

[Dave (in MA)]

The confirmed bachelor from SC says, "Want to make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell."

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--We now know that knowledge of the classics through the middle ages was broader than once thought--in fact during the Renaissance much of the literature recovered was found in European monasteries.--

Yep, but try getting a modernist to give credit to a medieval monk.

Concur with Sandy's 8:07 as well, including the singed corneas. :)

[squaredance]

Let me just step back and say that the Trump campaign for months now has had a dustbin-of-history-like quality to it.

What ridiculous English. I mean "for months now has had a dustbin-of-history-like quality"? Really now. Must have been a poli-Sci major.

What cretins--bad ideas poorly articulated. It is like junior high school politics.

This is what happens when one does not ever have to earn an honest living. I swear they are even more primitive than the Soviet Nomenklatura--at east we got some good pianists and chess players out of them.

What buffoons.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I think Lindsey Graham needs a mail order Pakistani bride via Saudi Arabia.
Might make a man out of him.

[Thomas Collins]

This is an easy case. The Constitution established a sovereign nation. An inherent aspect of sovereignty is control of which non-citizens enter. Exclusion of Islamic US citizens coming back is unconstitutional. Exclusion of foreign Islamics most assuredly is not unconstitutional. The fact that so many in our gentry class think otherwise is a sign of intellectual decay that may be beyond repair. But I remain optimistic only because of my belief that God has Special Providence for drunks, orphans and the United States of America.

[squaredance]

Actually, I would like to send Graham off to Pakistan as a mail order bride. I am ok with routing him through SA.

[peter]

I've been reading JOM long enough that I can spot a turd comment within the first few words and simply scroll down.

[Thomas Collins]

As far as current immigration policies go, that doesn't override plenary powers based on an essential aspect of sovereignty.

The reaction of the gentry class to the San Bernardino jihadist attack has me more pessimistic about my adherence to Special Providence than I ever have been.

[DrJ]

Wow:

Dow Chemical and DuPont in Advanced Talks to Merge

Dow Chemical and DuPont are in advanced talks to merge, in a tie-up that would cap off the strongest year ever for takeovers and come amid a surge of deal activity in the agriculture industry.

[narciso]

meanwhile back at the ranch:

https://twitter.com/search?q=Ted%20Cruz%20climate%20hearing%20from%3AjunkScience&src=typd

[boris]

I would like to send Graham off to Pakistan as a mail order bride

lol

[Momto2]

What ridiculous English. I mean "for months now has had a dustbin-of-history-like quality"? Really now. Must have been a poli-Sci major.

He was actually reading a prepared statement . So who do you think wrote it? It would be bad enough if he was just speaking off the cuff - but to actually PLAN to say this???

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Forget that ranch. how about this old ranch?

Wonder if Trump is man enough to apologize to Geller for less than he has said? The man is a complete idiot.

http://pamelageller.com/2015/12/the-daily-beast-when-donald-trump-accused-pamela-geller-of-taunting-muslims.html/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[narciso]

it's my metaphor, for changing topics,

http://www.weaselzippers.us/244465-heres-what-the-fbi-reportedly-found-in-the-car-of-the-mother-of-san-bernardino-terrorist/

one reason I'm still for Cruz,

[Jojo]

The cheaters can't beat Trump in a honest contest so they want to disqualify him.

[Janet]

The confirmed bachelor from SC says, "Want to make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell."

It is amazing to see these losers come out fighting for foreign Muslims.

Where were they when tea party Americans were being slandered?

Graham has been a loser for a long time -

"I wish we could find a way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we're in a war," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said about the Koran burning in Florida."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/03/lindsey_graham_free_speech_is_a_great_idea_but_were_in_a_war.html

[narciso]

i'm not overreacting, because jumping to conclusion, causes shin splits,

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/nobel-peace-prize-winner-elbaradei-says-trump-should-be-punished-by-law-for-speech/

it's like Hollywood Squares middle east edition,

[Threadkiller]

Geller is asking for the apology or the conservative stalwarts at The Daily Beast are asking on behalf of Geller?

[henry]

Happy news, the Venezuelan opposition say they have a super majority now.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Any Joe Ely fans here?

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

janet,

The problem is he is so inconsiistent. He has jumped on others for criitizing Jihadi's in the past now he wants to ban all Muslims. Be careful in what you hear from him and where he has been in the past. He is nothing less than a blowhard with no memory of what he has said in the past.

He may be resonating. But for all the wrong reasons.

[narciso]

the primal scream seems to have hidden this development,

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/san-bernardino-shooters-planned-attack-least-year-advance?cid=sm_tw_msnbc

[narciso]

it was in his job description, but still,

http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20151208/source-san-bernardino-mass-shooter-syed-farook-had-photos-of-a-rialto-high-school-on-cell-phone

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

-- Exclusion of Islamic US citizens coming back is unconstitutional.--

However, arresting the ones coming back with a terrorist honey in tow would be very good for the constitution of the USA.

[boatbuilder, Esq., Lord of All He Surveys]

Square--One thing that I have said for many years is that we have been lucky that the islamofascists are so scientifically and technologically backward. Imagine if they were Germans.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Happy news, the Venezuelan opposition say they have a super majority now.--

It never ceases to amaze me that so many of these thugs wilt when they most need the iron fist.
Maybe Maduro is gonna try the Danny Ortega route.

[Janet]

THIS is what the cesspool in DC will fight for?...foreign Muslims?

[lyle]

It's much easier to be a poorly educated rube from the sticks like me and bow down to my betters, I've decided. In fact, I'm not going to wait for them to confiscate my guns. I'll give them to the Government and donate the FMV to PP. I hear they're into cutting edge research that can cure me from Jesus. And from the snake-handling. Maybe I'll pull a front tooth to show my sincerity...

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Trump has a knack bordering on genius for saying things that outrage the puritan left and even the phantoms of the feinting couch right, but that just straddle the line of good sense enough that he makes it all about him all the time without completely discrediting himself.

He's like Muhammad Ali at his peak; even the people that hated him wanted him to stick around to keep saying stuff they hated.

[narciso]

hello, mcfly, was this thing on,

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20151208_02010921

[Miss Marple 2]

Jack,

I remember when he went after Geller. I have mixed feelings about her, because I think she sometimes gets carried away.

Trump probably felt like it was risky behavior because of all of the people at that gathering. What would we have thought if those gunmen had made it in?

However, it does seem like a flip-flop.

However, how many people in the US sort of felt the same way originally, thinking we should be tolerant and understanding? Maybe Trump is reflecting public opinion, as in the "for God's sake they were so nice to those people they threw them a damn baby shower, and all they got was murdered!"

At some point people's tolerance hit its limit. It seems to me Geller just hit her limit quicker than Trump.

[Threadkiller]

This is the link geller provides to give context to The Dailey Beast's concern-post:

http://m.therightscoop.com/trump-doubles-down-calls-pamela-geller-an-obnoxious-blowhard/

It cuts the interview with Trump, but I found the more interesting Q&A from Cavuto at the 3:30 mark.

[Rick Ballard]

The new Venezuelan government will be in power for the default[s] and follow on devaluation. The Chavistas, champions of the poor, will be retiring with their stolen wealth beyond reach.

Like Democrats.

[Threadkiller]

...cuts the interview with Trump before it actually ended..

[lyle]

Then again, I may have drunk too much moonshine...

[narciso]

and wrong way Corbyn was caught singing Enver Hoxha standards, the one openly Maoist leader in Europe,

[Momto2]

Nothing to worry about

[Momto2]

Oops - meant to add to link - two Afghan flight training guys are missing - failed to report - near Valdosta, Ga. - Moody Air Force Base.

But reporter says "nothing to worry about"...

[narciso]

the capacity for credential morons hyperventilating
re Trump's 'modest proposal' while ignoring the very circumstances that prompted such a suggestiom os extraordinary,

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

MM,

She gets carried away? I almost lost my glass of wine. But thanks for the laugh. Compared to one Donald J. Trump?

We are on the same road to fascism that Mussolini orchestrated so well back in the 30's. No reaonsable voices, even Geller (who is above reason when it comes to Islam) are allowed to be heard.

Forgive me for being in the minority here but Trump is the worst nightmare we can imagine. He won't make America great again he will make it more like Italy 1930-1944.

[Threadkiller]

From your link, Momto2

Lt. Co. Jeffery Hogan assumed command of the fighter squadronin January, and remarked that the Air Force had "never done this mission in this way before, ever."

I am starting to doubt there will be a 2016 election.

[narciso]

if we hadn't seem this movie before, so the mother had to have been aware of what the fledgling shaheeds were doing, the goofy neighbor who chose not to declare a 'canoing accident' had married into the family, shaheed no. 1, had been planning
an operation for a year, and had pics of another future target 'pipe bombs anyone' on his phone,

[Jack is Back! (On Alert!)]

Off to bed. Slaap lekker all.

Tots morgen. Stay alert.

[Jane]

I'm skipping ahead to say 2 things you have probably heard. 1st Insty confirms what anonamom talked about re: statins (which I stopped taking after that conversation and I think my mental acuity has increased (altho you would never know it from what I post here)

and 2nd: As per our earlier conversation you have persuaded me that banning Muslims is constitutional.

[narciso]

much the same was said about Silvio, another well connected developer and media property, with a
way with words, even out of power, he claimed valuable real estate in Umberto Eco's and Andrea
Cammilleri's noggin,

[Threadkiller]

Farooq's mama drove a Lexus?

That does not totally surprise a former mechanic/profiler.

The cultural car of choice is a Camry, but mama must have had a better handout income stream.

[Threadkiller]

Now that I think about it, Sienna mini vans are common ride for the refugees as well.

Sure explains the new Toyotas ISIS cruises around in.