Misquote And Mock

Politifiction does a fantasy check on a recent Ben Carson claim and surprises no one by backing the progressive story line.

Their headline:

Carson falsely says Thomas Jefferson helped 'craft' the Constitution

And their blurb:

Says Thomas Jefferson helped "craft" the Constitution.

— Ben Carson on Sunday, November 22nd, 2015 in a TV interview.

But to be fair, they reveal the palmed card in the second paragraph (my emphasis):

During a recent TV interview, Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson was asked which Founding Father impressed him the most.

"I’m particularly impressed with Thomas Jefferson, who seemed to have a very deep insight into the way people would react and tried to craft a constitution in a way that would control people’s natural tendencies and control the natural growth of government," Carson replied during a Nov. 22 broadcast on C-SPAN.

Wait, I thought, per the headline, that Carson claimed Jefferson "helped craft" the Constitution? Is that really the same as "tried to craft"? Just mumbling to myself here, but if some Obama fan claimed they admired him for trying to halt the invasion of Iraq under Bush, would Politifiction say that Obama was not in the Administration and the invasion happened, so the basis for the admiration is false?

It is back to palming cards in paragraph three and following:

Our ears perked up, because Jefferson was an ocean away from Philadelphia during the late spring and summer of 1787 when the Constitutional Convention met at Independence Hall. He was in Paris, serving as minister to France for the Confederation Congress.

So did Jefferson really play a role in crafting the U.S. Constitution? Let’s take a look.

That is the wrong question. Try resolving whether Jefferson "tried" to craft the Constitution. Just for example, take a look at his Dec 20, 1787 letter to Madison. A draft Constitution was being circulated for adoption, but Jefferson does not seem to consider it a done deal:

There are other good things of less moment. I will now add what I do not like. First the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly & without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal & unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land & not by the law of nations. To say, as Mr. Wilson does that a bill of rights was not necessary because all is reserved in the case of the general government which is not given, while in the particular ones all is given which is not reserved, might do for the audience to whom it was addressed, but is surely a gratis dictum, opposed by strong inferences from the body of the instrument, as well as from the omission of the clause of our present confederation which had declared that in express terms.

And a bit later...

I do not pretend to decide what would be the best method of procuring the establishment of the manifold good things in this constitution, and of getting rid of the bad. Whether by adopting it in hopes of future amendment, or, after it has been duly weighed & canvassed by the people, after seeing the parts they generally dislike, & those they generally approve, to say to them ‘We see now what you wish. Send together your deputies again, let them frame a constitution for you omitting what you have condemned, & establishing the powers you approve. Even these will be a great addition to the energy of your government.’ At all events I hope you will not be discouraged from other trials, if the present one should fail of it’s full effect.

So Ben Carson admires Jefferson for trying to influence the outcome? Liar!

Or I suppose we could set a pedant to catch a pedant. Is Politifiction adamant in their belief that the Constitution was set in stone as of the drafting in 1787, so no other time period merits examination? What about that whole "living, breathing" document idea? Or, for example, what about the widely held notion that Marbury v. Madison in 1803 established the Constitutional principal of judicial review?

If the actual practical implementation of the Constitution can be considered an attempt to establish precedent that will guide the conduct of future members of government then surely Jefferson's two terms as President represent an attempt to shape Constitutional practice. As to whether Jefferson's conduct in office was wholly consistent with a limited government can be a different debate. But as an example, here is a pro-TJ look at the Louisiana Purchase:

Thomas Jefferson had always feared the costs of loose construction of the powers delegated to the national government in the Constitution, and the Constitution was silent about acquiring lands from other countries. Jefferson urged bringing the issue to the people to approve with a constitutional amendment, but Congress disregarded his draft amendments. The Senate ratified the Louisiana Purchase Treaty in October of 1803. While Jefferson did his best to follow what he believed was proper constitutional procedure, not enough of his contemporaries agreed with him and he eventually assented.

More on the triumph of expedience over proceduralism here.

And do let us note - even back in the Dec 20 '87 letter to Madison Jefferson was fretting about the lack term limits:

The second feature I dislike, and greatly dislike, is the abandonment in every instance of the necessity of rotation in office, and most particularly in the case of the President. Experience concurs with reason in concluding that the first magistrate will always be re-elected if the constitution permits it. He is then an officer for life.

Washington served two terms and declined a third run, as did Jefferson. One goal was to establish the Presidential two-term precedent, more or less respected until FDR and now mandated by, wait for it, a Constitutional amendment. The dead hand of Thomas Jefferson reaches from beyond the grave!

Well, history is bunk. The legacy media is having fun with their mocking points and away we go.

DO LET ME ADD: Here was the original WaPo story with their creative headline:

Ben Carson, author of book about the Constitution, incorrectly states that Thomas Jefferson crafted it

Almost! Elsewhere the WaPo blurbed their breakthrough as follows:

— Ben Carson is in over his head: On C-SPAN last night, the retired neurosurgeon praised Thomas Jefferson for his role crafting the Constitution “in a way that it would control peoples’ natural tendencies and control the natural growth of the government.”

Close enough for progressive work!

Elsewhere, USA Today seized the reins on their latent racism and agreed with Ben Carson.

FWIW, Fred Barbash, WaPo author of the original hit piece, wrote a book about the Constitutional convention. That might explain his laser-like focus on that moment in time while ignoring Jefferson's advocacy for a Bill of Rights (added later), Presidential term limits, and so on.

Comments

[rse]

First?

[James D.]

I've got a much shorter and clearer answer:

The writers at Polotifiction are fucking liars, and the world would be a better place had their mothers been regular clients at Planned Parenthood.

There.

[rse]

Well I have made it through all 1,059 pages in about 13 hours of reading.

GOPe really should be shot.

[James D.]

The same applies to the WaPo, obviously.

[rse]

http://news.yahoo.com/house-speaker-colorado-shooting-shows-mental-health-reforms-154327686--business.html

Either Ryan is deliberately lying about the way ESSA works or he needs better staffers that can accurately read statutes.

[buccaneer morgan]

Acquainted with grizzlies I say.

[NK]

So if the WaPo Barbash creature is knowledgeable about Madison and the 1787 Convention, then he is deliberately lying about Carson. This is my shocked face!

[NK]

OMG, Cohen is brain dead, but still has his byline. This is beyond moronic.... he's gone plaid:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-president-who-lost-his-voice/2015/11/30/dac3b812-978b-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html

[clarice]

Indeed,NK.

[Appalled]

Gee. Jefferson was upset there was no Bill of Rights. He agitated for one to be added. And gee- what do we mostly fight about these days when we talk about the Constitution. The Bill of Rights.

Jesus -- reporters will go to any lengths to demonstrate a tea party politician is ignorant about history, and almost always end up soiling their underwear in the process.

[clarice]

http://fusion4freedom.us/where-did-that-97-of-all-scientists-agree-comment-come-from/

A useful retort to the nonsensical claim about 97% of climate scientists agree that AGW is real and dangerous.Send a copy to the pope if you have his addy.

[lyle]

From NK's 1:04:

But [Obama] is a cautious man who fears his rhetoric running away from him.

"Cautious"? That's what the elites are calling it? "Pusillanimous" is more like it.

[buccaneer morgan]

Seeing as they see little use for the most of the amendments.

[Au Contraire.]

Yes, c, the use of '97%' immediately marks the user as an ignoramus or a propagandist.

The quarrel isn't so much over AGW, as the Catastrophic AGW. It ain't happenin'.

[Old Lurker]

The quarrel isn't even about that.

It is about transferring wealth.

And it is about controlling populations.

[lyle]

Maverick weighs in:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/11/30/mccain-lets-face-it-trumps-rhetoric-is-turning-muslims-all-over-the-world-against-us/

The ne plus ultra of the GOPe.

[NK]

The legitimate statistical-physics quarrel is about the magnitude of the temp changed caused by the CO2 ( I am sticking with Crichton's 1C from doubled CO2) What the UNers and Statists are up to has nothing to do with that legitimate inquiry.

[Old Lurker]

Ask the old man for a complete list of all Muslims who are not already against us. One sheet of paper should be all he requires.

What a fool.

[GUS]

NK, why do you hate TEH CHILDREN?? This is about stopping all the CHILDREN from enjoying a future that President Dick Suck is trying to build.

[Threadkiller]

Jefferson the loon?

On January 6th, 1821 at the age of 77; Jefferson began writing his autobiography.

On page 35 of the draft version, Jefferson recalls a debate over treaty obligations for The Treaty of Paris, which was formally signed between America and Great Britain on September 3rd, 1783, though not finally ratified until it was signed by the Continental Congress convened in Annapolis on January, 14th 1784.  According to Jefferson, based on International Law; the validity of the instrument did not go into effect until ratification:

"On the contrary, it was argued by Monroe, Gerry, Howel, Ellery & myself that by the modern usage of Europe the ratification was considered as the act which gave validity to a treaty, until which it was not obligatory."1

1. Vattel, L. 2, § 156. L. 4, § 77. 1. Mably Droit D'Europe, 86.— T.J.

http://pixelpatriot.blogspot.com/2015/09/vattel-is-law-part-1.html?m=1

But..., but..., Vattel wasn't translated until the 18th century!

Did these guys read French?

Impossible! Or, as they say in France, "Impossible!"

[Threadkiller]

...19th century...

[Carol Herman]

Doesn't stand a chance at getting elected.

But, ah, the purpose he's there! So you can be accused of racism.

That's how the MSM works.

[Rick Ballard]

It's rather fitting that progressive fascism should end with a congregation of bankrupts assembled in Paris promising to spend money they don't have to fight a problem which doesn't exist.

[NK]

RickB@200-- Brilliant!

[lyle]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/12/climatista-drama-in-paris-illustrated.php

Click for the cartoon. Maybe some enterprising JOMer could copy it and post it here.

[lyle]

Of course the cartoon is from WUWT.

[Old Lurker]

Of course this could never happen here!

"HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuba on Tuesday re-imposed limits on doctors leaving the country, saying its universal and free healthcare services have been "seriously affected" by the flight of vital medical specialists.

In a rare backtrack by Cuba on modernizing reforms of recent years, the Communist government said it would reapply restrictions that had been lifted in 2013."

[clarice]

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2015/11/in-typical-environmental-reporting.html

Bees are back --more than ever..Another green scare proves baseless--defeated by capitalism.

[GUS]

Jerry Rivers is shitting all over Obama.

Talk about Crocodile Rock!!! CHOMP!!!!!

[Jim Eagle]

To bee, or not to bee, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The stings and welts of outrageous mis-fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleepst...

[Miss Marple 2]

Here's the cartoon.

[Jim Eagle]

Al Gore says there are fish swimming in the streets of Miami. No shit sherlock. Anyone who has ever been to The Red Fish in Coral Gables off of Old Cutler Road knows all about fish in the streets and parking lots. Its called high tide, full moon and wind out of the east.

[matt]

Of course the author of the Declaration of Independence had no influence whatsoever on the Constitution despite having sent a number of letters on the exact subject to its authors.

Last week the Left's meme was that Carson was wrong about Jefferson as an author of the Constitution. When that fallacy was pointed out they went on to another fallacy. It's is the political version of 3 card Monty.

[GUS]

Jack that's not what Gore meant.
Is it not ironic that the EXACT time frame since Gore has left office, the world has cooled and GORE has become wealthy. My son is 14, schools (not his) have taught GLOBAL WARMING throughout those 14 years.
A lie is the truth to LIBTARDS.

[GUS]

Ass Carter just put more boots on the ground.
Then the BUTT PLUG in CHIEF stood up his daily STRAWMAN.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/11/30/robert-davi-donald-trump-is-the-john-wayne-of-politics/

Davi nails it pretty well as far as the memory test of cavemen party goers.

He also includes this, which makes my previous point:
http://youtu.be/baUuXQ443fA

[Cecil Turner]

This is a new twist:

U.S. to deploy additional special ops forces to Iraq, Syria
President Obama has ordered the deployment of additional special operations forces to both Iraq and Syria to gather ground intelligence, conduct raids and enhance the air campaign against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), Defense Secretary Ash Carter told Congress on Tuesday. [ . . . ]
Carter explained that the "targeting force" will focus on strengthening the Iraqi Security Forces and defending Iraq's borders.

It appears Obama's neo-vietnam strategy has finally reached the "vietnamization" phase. Again.

[henry]

Yeah Obama is in full LBJ mode now.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Except Barry is playing both the French and US roles by starting out with his own Dien Bien Phu by withdrawing and losing a won war and now having to go back in and deal with a mess he created.

He will likely avoid the late LBJ role by being too timid to commit enough troops to make a difference.

All of the bad aspects of Ike, JFK, LBJ and Nixon with none of the virtues; a tour de force.

[henry]

well put Ig

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Damon Linker demonstrates his fetal mind.

[NK]

LBJ-- for all of his Vietnam faults (and they were huge and many) at least he wanted to defeat Ho and the Soviets, he was a fool advised by fools. The MB mostly likes ISIS, and will join with them once ISIS topples the Alawite Ophthalmologist. Obummer loves MB, but also has an alliance with the Mullahs who own the Ophthalmologist, so it's complicated. He's putting our people in the middle of all that with no clear objective. Poor devils.

[NK]

Ig, indeed, very true. Alas

[DrJ]

Just great:

House, Senate negotiators agree to five-year highway bill that reauthorizes Export-Import Bank

What is Reagan's quote on immortality again?

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Jeff Sessions says the omnibus crap sammich just finances 404 for the future including refugee settlement and sanctuary cities. I'm so glad Saving Private Munster is making such a difference.

Per Tammy Bruce, clock boy is homesick for Texas.

[Rick Ballard]

Anyone else having problems with 'ole Typhuspad?

[Dave (in MA)]

Only for the past few years, RB.

[Old Lurker]

I saw that story about Clock Boy.

Wonder if he has the right to return?

[lyle]

Thanks, MM2!

[Cecil Turner]

He will likely avoid the late LBJ role by being too timid to commit enough troops to make a difference.

He already avoided the main LBJ role by running for reelection.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Tammy suggested Clockmed's ambulance chasers have suggested his trash family has a better chance of winning the scam lawsuits if he is back in the state.

[Old Lurker]

Dropping that suit should be the minimum price of letting him back in.

[lyle]

Which means it won't happen, OL.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I think we should import millions more Clock Boys.

[Jim Eagle]

Don't you have to go through those little things called interrogatories and depositions in civil lawsuits? I don't think Texas is a Sharia state, yet.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

"DICAPRIO RAPED BY BEAR IN FOX MOVIE!"

The only thing worse I could think of would be;
DICAPRIO RAPED BY FOX IN BEAR MOVIE!

[lyle]

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/scientist-obama-ancient-space-alien-to-fight-climate-change-t17255.html

[Old Lurker]

Since Texas is my fallback line, I sure as hell hope not, Jack.

[Old Lurker]

Iggy, I saw that story on Drudge but can't figure how the bear got the zipper down without a thumb?

[lyle]

Here, I'll save you a click:

Ex-scientist James Hansen, who abandoned science as "just another corporate lie" and resigned from NASA after his plan to send cats to the center of the earth was shot down, has published a new, shattering, on-the-eve-of-the-Paris-conference-government-funded study in which he argues that Barack Obama is in fact an all-wise ancient space alien sent to earth many thousands of years ago by an all-wise race of ancient space aliens.

"He is here from ancient alien space to save humanity from climate change at the Paris climate conference," said ex-scientist Hansen. "Just listen to the man talk. Have you ever noticed he always talks to us earthlings like he is God speaking from on-high to simpletons? Like he's smarter than everybody else? That's because he's an ancient space alien sent here thousands of years ago to save us from climate change at the Paris conference."

For his proof he has produced numerous ancient artifacts purporting to be pictures of ancient aliens one of which he claims is Obama's [O Ba Ma, as Hansen spells it] ancient real birth certificate. It is a hieroglyph of two alien-looking creatures and a small jug-eared baby creature wearing what appear to be space helmets or fish bowls depending on the angle of the viewer.

The study, which concludes all humanity should listen to and obey O Ba Ma about everything was funded by a generous pre-Paris conference government grant.

[Jim Eagle]

LBJ had McGeorge Bundy as the NSC rep in his bomb plans lunch group.

BHO has Ben Rhodes in the same role.

What could go wrong? At least Bundy had the intelligence to resign and join the Ford Foundation. Ben's only out is to host the CBS morning show if he wants it.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"Iggy, I saw that story on Drudge but can't figure how the bear got the zipper down without a thumb?"

Was it a panda?

[lyle]

One more but you have to click this one:

http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/hillary-clinton-has-anothe-brain-event-t17252.html

[Michael Cohen]

A Beard cannot rape its spouse

[Old Lurker]

LBJ had a bunch of WWII and Korea fighters available to him. And our pal Curtis LeMay spoke up about bombing back to the stoneage...

Obama makes do with Ben and his PJ Boys.

[Dave (in MA)]

One in Five Hollywood actors are raped by bears.

[Jim Eagle]

OL,

But Bozo will have better talking points with Ben on the job.

[NK]

Pandas aren't bears.

[Old Lurker]

Jack, and Bozo probably knows all about those flaps on the back of PJB's PJs.

[NK]

Davein Ma@2:47-- WINZ THE INTERNETS!! Thank yous to everyone else for playing and enjoy your lovely parting gifts.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

The other four consented.

[Old Lurker]

Can a bear even say "put some ice on that" ?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

The comments are even funnier than the post on that 3:38 link, lyle.

[Cecil Turner]

Duffle Blog still has it:
US NOT SURE WHO IT’S FIGHTING IN MIDDLE EAST, BOMBS ISRAEL ‘JUST TO BE SURE’

[NK]

OL@at 3:50 -- c'mon now be realistic, jeez.
Bath House Barry wore assless PJs back in the day.

[lyle]

Bear actor rape is a national disgrace. I demand congress act and fund the "National Bear Actor Rape Prevention" law.

Alternatively, this bear actor rape thing, er, fleshes out the punch line of the old joke about the hunter (I know, stick with me, here) who, after several attempts to hunt a bear with ever more increasing gun lethality and instead gets buggered each time by the angry bear, the bear finally asks the hunter, "This isn't really about hunting, is it?"

[lyle]

They usually are, Ig.

[NK]

LYLE!!! this is a family blog.

[Dave (in MA)]

NK, I liked your Faux pas by faux President comment @ Patterico, so there.

[lyle]

Things have changed since you've been gone, NK. It's time someone told you... ;)

[Dave (in MA)]

Can a bear even say "put some ice on that" ?
The polar ones, sure, but only as long as the Arctic ice lasts.

[Dave (in MA)]

lyle | December 01, 2015 at 03:57 PM, now that you gave away the whole plot of Leo's movie, why bother even going to see it? Try a "***spoiler***" next time.

[lyle]

I know this has probably been linked but I can't resist:

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/12/1/the-usual-suspect

French President Francois Hollande is hosting Obama, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and other top advisers at L'Ambroisie — one of the finest gastronomic restaurants in the trendy Marais.

L'Ambroisie's menu is fit for a king — or an occasional president. ...

Obama told reporters snapping photographs to be careful in the luxurious surroundings, "Don't break the chandelier. You can't afford it."

Insert puchline here: _______________

[Old Lurker]

Back in my borrowing days when called to account by my banks, I wish I had thought to talk back to them like this:

"Puerto Rico’s governor, Alejandro García Padilla, told the US Senate on Tuesday that the troubled Caribbean island has “no cash left” and can no longer repay its $72bn debts. The territory announced it would honor a $354m debt payment due on 1 December as Padilla was testifying, but Padilla said austerity measures had not only eaten into essential services but caused tax revenues to crater. With more than $900m due in January, the governor said his options were restructuring or disaster. Padilla gave the Senate a deadline of Dec. 11 to provide Puerto Rico a viable restructuring plan."

[lyle]

Mea culpa to all JOM cinephiles!

[Marlene]

The province of Nova Scotia has approved a lease to allow the Norwegian oil company Statoil to explore near Georges Bank and the entrance to the Gulf of Maine. The reporter at the Portland Press Herald received most of his information from an oceanographer from the Bigelow Laboratory. Then,halfway through the article, the reporter makes the disclaimer that he is a trustee of the Bigelow Lab. Fair and balanced,ha,ha.

[Old Lurker]

Lyle...it was the Drudge headline story today and Rush talked about it so you are off the hook.

[Old Lurker]

My 4:08 was for NK so he can do better for his workout clients.

[lyle]

Whew!

[James D.]

lyle @ 4:07

Wow, he is the most classless person imaginable, isn't he?

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.unionleader.com/For-our-safety,-our-future:-Chris-Christie-for-President
William Loeb III, spinning in his crypt.

[lyle]

So sorry, you're supposed to answer in the form of a punchline, James D. :)

(but, yes, yes he is)

[Gentlejim]

97% of bears approve of raping Hollyweird actors.

[GUS]

The Packers got raped by the Bears on Thanksgiving.

But it wasn't RAPE-RAPE.

WHOOOOOOOOOOPEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

[Jim Eagle]

French President Francois Hollande is hosting Obama, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and other top advisers at L'Ambroisie — one of the finest gastronomic restaurants in the trendy Marais.

My fashion designer niece lives in the Marais and was walking back to her atelier when the Gendarmarie all of sudden cordoned off her sidewalk and the street. So, she stood there and watched Bozo and his entourage pull up, inconvience everyone in the area then walk into the restaurant (over-rated in my opinion as well as Michelin). She is French through and through, although from the conservative southwest and was not impressed.

But like she tells me, she survived the attacks on Friday so Obama is not so hard.

[Marlene]

Dave,I'm amazed about that endorsement.
When I was in 5th or 6th grade,I worked on the school paper. One day I came home from school and said,now I know how William Loeb feels,running a paper. My parents laughed.

[Thomas Collins]

Bear? Fox? Buggery hunting? DiCaprio? Can we get back to wholesome talk such as trying to convince BOE to take Destiny and Tatiana to the Dom champagne room instead of spending all his dating time with non-stripper gals?

[Thomas Collins]

Bill Loeb is a spinner in his crypt? Jeff, this thread is out of control!

[narciso]

I have found zaphods natters at his usual pace, no more no less, to richard cohen,

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/obama-while-speaking-in-paris-on-planned-parenthood-shooting-this-just-doesnt-happen-in-other-countries/

I assume this was not part of the plot of the revenant, just coincidence on the part of the bear

[lyle]

Sorry, TC, bear actor rape isn't some hazy and inchoate threat years in the future, it's happening right now!