Misquote And Mock

Politifiction does a fantasy check on a recent Ben Carson claim and surprises no one by backing the progressive story line.

Their headline:

Carson falsely says Thomas Jefferson helped 'craft' the Constitution

And their blurb:

Says Thomas Jefferson helped "craft" the Constitution.

— Ben Carson on Sunday, November 22nd, 2015 in a TV interview.

But to be fair, they reveal the palmed card in the second paragraph (my emphasis):

During a recent TV interview, Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson was asked which Founding Father impressed him the most.

"I’m particularly impressed with Thomas Jefferson, who seemed to have a very deep insight into the way people would react and tried to craft a constitution in a way that would control people’s natural tendencies and control the natural growth of government," Carson replied during a Nov. 22 broadcast on C-SPAN.

Wait, I thought, per the headline, that Carson claimed Jefferson "helped craft" the Constitution? Is that really the same as "tried to craft"? Just mumbling to myself here, but if some Obama fan claimed they admired him for trying to halt the invasion of Iraq under Bush, would Politifiction say that Obama was not in the Administration and the invasion happened, so the basis for the admiration is false?

It is back to palming cards in paragraph three and following:

Our ears perked up, because Jefferson was an ocean away from Philadelphia during the late spring and summer of 1787 when the Constitutional Convention met at Independence Hall. He was in Paris, serving as minister to France for the Confederation Congress.

So did Jefferson really play a role in crafting the U.S. Constitution? Let’s take a look.

That is the wrong question. Try resolving whether Jefferson "tried" to craft the Constitution. Just for example, take a look at his Dec 20, 1787 letter to Madison. A draft Constitution was being circulated for adoption, but Jefferson does not seem to consider it a done deal:

There are other good things of less moment. I will now add what I do not like. First the omission of a bill of rights providing clearly & without the aid of sophisms for freedom of religion, freedom of the press, protection against standing armies, restriction against monopolies, the eternal & unremitting force of the habeas corpus laws, and trials by jury in all matters of fact triable by the laws of the land & not by the law of nations. To say, as Mr. Wilson does that a bill of rights was not necessary because all is reserved in the case of the general government which is not given, while in the particular ones all is given which is not reserved, might do for the audience to whom it was addressed, but is surely a gratis dictum, opposed by strong inferences from the body of the instrument, as well as from the omission of the clause of our present confederation which had declared that in express terms.

And a bit later...

I do not pretend to decide what would be the best method of procuring the establishment of the manifold good things in this constitution, and of getting rid of the bad. Whether by adopting it in hopes of future amendment, or, after it has been duly weighed & canvassed by the people, after seeing the parts they generally dislike, & those they generally approve, to say to them ‘We see now what you wish. Send together your deputies again, let them frame a constitution for you omitting what you have condemned, & establishing the powers you approve. Even these will be a great addition to the energy of your government.’ At all events I hope you will not be discouraged from other trials, if the present one should fail of it’s full effect.

So Ben Carson admires Jefferson for trying to influence the outcome? Liar!

Or I suppose we could set a pedant to catch a pedant. Is Politifiction adamant in their belief that the Constitution was set in stone as of the drafting in 1787, so no other time period merits examination? What about that whole "living, breathing" document idea? Or, for example, what about the widely held notion that Marbury v. Madison in 1803 established the Constitutional principal of judicial review?

If the actual practical implementation of the Constitution can be considered an attempt to establish precedent that will guide the conduct of future members of government then surely Jefferson's two terms as President represent an attempt to shape Constitutional practice. As to whether Jefferson's conduct in office was wholly consistent with a limited government can be a different debate. But as an example, here is a pro-TJ look at the Louisiana Purchase:

Thomas Jefferson had always feared the costs of loose construction of the powers delegated to the national government in the Constitution, and the Constitution was silent about acquiring lands from other countries. Jefferson urged bringing the issue to the people to approve with a constitutional amendment, but Congress disregarded his draft amendments. The Senate ratified the Louisiana Purchase Treaty in October of 1803. While Jefferson did his best to follow what he believed was proper constitutional procedure, not enough of his contemporaries agreed with him and he eventually assented.

More on the triumph of expedience over proceduralism here.

And do let us note - even back in the Dec 20 '87 letter to Madison Jefferson was fretting about the lack term limits:

The second feature I dislike, and greatly dislike, is the abandonment in every instance of the necessity of rotation in office, and most particularly in the case of the President. Experience concurs with reason in concluding that the first magistrate will always be re-elected if the constitution permits it. He is then an officer for life.

Washington served two terms and declined a third run, as did Jefferson. One goal was to establish the Presidential two-term precedent, more or less respected until FDR and now mandated by, wait for it, a Constitutional amendment. The dead hand of Thomas Jefferson reaches from beyond the grave!

Well, history is bunk. The legacy media is having fun with their mocking points and away we go.

DO LET ME ADD: Here was the original WaPo story with their creative headline:

Ben Carson, author of book about the Constitution, incorrectly states that Thomas Jefferson crafted it

Almost! Elsewhere the WaPo blurbed their breakthrough as follows:

— Ben Carson is in over his head: On C-SPAN last night, the retired neurosurgeon praised Thomas Jefferson for his role crafting the Constitution “in a way that it would control peoples’ natural tendencies and control the natural growth of the government.”

Close enough for progressive work!

Elsewhere, USA Today seized the reins on their latent racism and agreed with Ben Carson.

FWIW, Fred Barbash, WaPo author of the original hit piece, wrote a book about the Constitutional convention. That might explain his laser-like focus on that moment in time while ignoring Jefferson's advocacy for a Bill of Rights (added later), Presidential term limits, and so on.

Comments

[Old Lurker]

Get serious, TC!

Bears Lives Matter.

[lyle]

watched Bozo and his entourage pull up, inconvience everyone in the area then walk into the restaurant (over-rated in my opinion as well as Michelin).

Over-rated prez in an over-rated restaurant. Synchronicity!

[lyle]

I think you need one of these for maximum outrage, OL: #

[narciso]

well they probably do, but they lie anyways,

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/30/black-pastor-the-liberal-media-doesnt-know-the-real-trump-video/

[Miss Marple 2]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2015/12/james-murdoch-joins-center-for-a-new-american-security-board-216324

James is the CEO of 21st Century Fox and Rupert's son.

I assume we have him to thank for the bear fiasco.

[GUS]

Does the BEAR rape LeoTARDO because of Climate change??

[narciso]

reminds of that horrible film, the Happening, when plants seeking revenge for global warming, somehow drive man into a suicidal frenzy,

[lyle]

Was the Leo-raping bear a polar bear? Hah, trick question! Polar bears are extinct because of globull warmening, you heartless bastards.

[jimmyk]

Pandas aren't bears.

From Wiki:
For many decades, the precise taxonomic classification of the giant panda was under debate because it shares characteristics with both bears and raccoons.[56] However, molecular studies suggest the giant panda is a true bear and part of the family Ursidae,[3][57] though it differentiated early in history from the main ursine stock. The giant panda's closest extant relative is the spectacled bear of South America.[58]

[GUS]

Did LeoTardo become pregnant from his attacker??
I mean, what-with all of this SELF IDENTIFYING.

And, will "Tardo", keep the baby bear and breast feed in public????

HOPE AND CHANGE!!!!

[Jim Eagle]

More mad money on the loose. JC!

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/12/01/facebooks-mark-zuckerberg-is-giving-away-99-of-his-shares/

Look at this way, the $450mil he keeps pays for their cyrogenic chambers.

[narciso]

that would seem reasonable jimmy

http://therightscoop.com/marylands-deputy-ag-isnt-going-to-like-this-new-undercover-project-veritas-report-at-all/

the most shocking thing is why he's likely to be fired,

[Miss Marple 2]

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/illinois/2015/12/8584349/emanuel-fires-police-superintendent-amid-protests-over-video

Hoping the crocodile will eat him last. I predict that now that there is blood in the water they will go after Rahm.

Pity.

[narciso]

why didn't he just dilute them like he did to Eduardo Saverin,

[Frau Kartoffeln über alles]

Sitting here not far from Jim Miller and enjoying the cold by staying inside until the temp gets above 35 degrees. Today is our 59th wedding anniversary (118th for those counting at home) and I found a pork loin roast frozen in 2014 which I have marinating in beer, mustard, honey etc. It will be served with freshly-made Lithuanian-style potato kugel (mit SPECK). I realize I will incur the wrath of the food crazy Clarice wrote about, but that's tough sinew.

We return to CA on Thursday where I can retire from the kitchen and resume my JOM way of life.

[Miss Marple 2]

Jack,

I went over to read Zuckerberg's extremely long and sappy letter to his new son.

They are giving away the stock "over our lifetime."

So I figure this made a nice publicity splash but a lot of that stock will be held onto for quite some time.

Also, while everyone is thinking he's so wonderful, I figure it will be doled out to make his ta liability zero over quite some time.

And I don't think it's going to go to a lot of the people who THINK they will get some.

[lyle]

Happy anniversary, Frau.

[Jim Eagle]

for the German challenged: mit SPECK is "with bacon". There is nothing it can't do even for German food.

[Jim Eagle]

MM,

I realize all that, my comment was with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. Not every comment here is pontifical.

[Smokey]

My Own Private Hollywood

[Jim Eagle]

For Rocco, Dave, TC and others in the Bay State: David Price is now a Bosox. Hello, Yankees!

[narciso]

some of the handiwork that abu mazen facilitated,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/02/sports/long-hidden-details-reveal-cruelty-of-1972-munich-attackers.html?_r=0

btw, did you see who zaphod picked as his advisor on islamic state, Hamas fanboi Robert Malley,

[cindyk]

Question....do bears just rape the male gender....or should I be concerned about the bear who keeps pooping on my deck just below my bedroom window...?

[lyle]

Mr. Zuckerberg ​and his wife, a doctor, said their daughter is named Max. The couple will make their philanthropic donations through a new entity, Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, LLC. Its initial areas of focus will be “personalized learning, curing disease, connecting people and building strong communities,” Mr. Zuckerberg said in a in a lengthy letter to his daughter posted Tuesday.

Attaboy, Zuck. Nothing sez virtue-signalling like your very own non-profit. I'm SURE potential tax liability had NOTHING to do with this momentous decision...

[Thomas Collins]

Looks as if John Henry abandoned his reluctance to sign 30 some odd year old pitchers to big contracts, JiB. Or perhaps Henry has entrusted the franchise's fate to Dombrowski.

[lyle]

Ask the bear why he hates you, cindyk. Then apologize to him for climate change.

[Jim Eagle]

If it wasn't for college football, we are raising a generation of sissies. Thanks a lot you f**ing pussy parents out there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/young-fogies-modern-illiberalism-is-led-by-students/2015/11/30/6f58fd40-97a3-11e5-94f0-9eeaff906ef3_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-c%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

[Thomas Collins]

Boston fans are already into the yins and yangs of the Price signing. See comments on the article linked below.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/01/red-sox-agree-deal-with-pitcher-david-price/Tsv1SM9yjAU1TncmXJpFUN/story.html#comments

[Rick Ballard]

CindyK,

I'd advise great caution if he's wearing a fraternity pin.

[lyle]

Oops, my bad. First ask the bear which gender he/she/ze identifies as, cindyk. Then give him/her/zir a bunch of your money, move out of your house, and let him/her/zir move in.

And denounce yourself and your priviledge.

[Rick Ballard]

It really sounds as if he might be with OccupyYellowstone. Does he suffer from other defects in personal hygiene? A blend of pachouli and strong body odor?

Have you noticed a lot of empty Dorito bags in the area?

[henry]

the view from the Tilted Kilt. One of the Fleebaggers wrote a book about the whole Act 10 thing. Note, most of the Dems weren't returning to WI until the unions said it was ok.

[narciso]

this site, which I mentioned at the tail end of another thread, provides other clues,

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/convention/correspondence/

[narciso]

and there was this one at the start of the proceedings,

http://edu.lva.virginia.gov/docs/GWtoJT.pdf

[JMHanes]

Or you could go the old fashioned Pilgrim route, per Debby Witt's Thanksgiving post:
Invite the bear to dinner, kill him, and take his land.

[lyle]

Which institution of higher learning does the bear hail from, cindyk? If it's an Ivy, it's probably best not to challenge the bear. If it's from some third rate state diploma mill, use the ironic eye roll to utterly destroy the bear.

[narciso]

well if 'he's smarter then the average bear' you might have a time with it,

[lyle]

JMH has inspired me! Give the bear a smallpox laced blanket.

[Old Lurker]

Did you all see the great cartoon on Lucianne yesterday showing several Indians standing on the shore as the Mayflower sets anchor? One Indian said to the other "Don't worry, we subjected them all to very rigorous vetting."

[cindyk]

Lyle: The rumor is he/she is from Montana University...however I have met several of alumni and many of them are 401 glad-handers! That considered, maybe my potential bear raper is not so bad!

[lyle]

Taranto refers to a Hilligula email:

Seven months before [Mrs.] Clinton left office, a top aide suggested to her that she still had “plenty of time” to “run up the score on total countries” and set a globe-trotting goal of 110 countries, according to an e-mail released Monday.

The e-mail, sent by Clinton press aide Philippe Reines three years ago, casts a political light on one of Clinton’s core talking points as a candidate for president: that she was a nonpolitical and hard-working secretary of state, who, as she frequently notes, visited 112 countries. . . .

The subject line for the e-mail is: “100 and counting . . .”; Reines included a list of 94 countries that Clinton hadn’t yet visited for her to “choose from,” as he put it. Some of the countries had asterisks by them.

“Asterisks appear next to countries you visited prior to becoming SecState, but not since—so they would count,” Reines wrote.

Clinton replied to the e-mail by asking one of her staff members to print it out for her—her standard response to messages she deemed important

He observes:

This was purely gratuitous; Mrs. Clinton was flying to country after country for no reason other than to get there. Now she’s the inevitable Democratic presidential nominee, and her campaign declares: “We need to take bold action to combat climate change.”

Well, not her personally. More like you and I need to pay more for energy so she and all the other progtards can feel good about themselves.

[lyle]

The rumor is he/she is from Montana University

A Grizzly, no less! Was he on the football team?

[GUS]

Henry, Gus Jr., and I, drove right passed the Tilted Kilt. Laughter ensued.

[GUS]

Black Bears lives Matter.
Polar Bears are priveliged bastards.

[Miss Marple 2]

lyle,

Seems like Carly was spot o:

"Flying is an activity, Mrs. Clinton, Not an accomplishment."

[lyle]

http://news.investors.com/ibdeditorials.aspx

Since I lack the ability to post pictures, click for the Ramirez cartoon. It's too good.

[JMHanes]

Clarice, I'm delighted to see you back from the beyond, too. Not sure which thread I saw you on, though, so I just hope you end up dropping by this one!

[Miss Marple 2]

http://freebeacon.com/issues/obamas-motorcade-for-climate-change-talks-costing-784825/

The Free Beacon got the costs for hotels and cars, plus other stuff.

Almost $2 million.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Ramirez;

[Miss Marple 2]

$2 million would give 2000 families $1000 for Christmas, which would be a Godsend for many.

[James D.]

Well, not her personally. More like you and I need to pay more for energy so she and all the other progtards can feel good about themselves.

And this is why I was talking about guillotines and Reigns of Terror in the previous thread.

[Miss Marple 2]

Even the sites for collectors and antique dealers are getting in on the global warming scam:

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/could-the-clothes-on-your-back-halt-global-warming/

[JMHanes]

Speaking of the Wash Free Beacon, I've been glad to see them keeping tabs on Chinese depradations:

Calling China’s maritime views on the sea “exclusionary and absolutist,” [Admiral] Harris said China appears to be rejecting the policies of the late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping who urged patience in dealing with China’s territorial disputes….

China, Harris said, is shifting from patient state into “a nation in a hurry” through the massive island building spree that began last year in disputed waters of the South China Sea. The activities significantly heightened tensions in the region, he said….

Chinese military units are now warning ships and planes legally operating in the sea that they are not permitted to enter China’s claimed security zone, a zone Harris said “does not exist.”

I was surprised that Obama actually allowed poor Harris to let a U.S. warship encroach on one of China's fantasy islands in what is called a freedom of navigation operation (FONOP). Then I read this. Although I can't vouch for the source, it sounds a lot more like the Obama I'm familiar with:

As it turns out, the USS Lassen reportedly did not engage in a FONOPS to demonstrate that the islands China has built exert no right to territorial waters reaching out 12 nautical miles. Instead, the U.S. ship reportedly conducted an “innocent passage,” turning off its radars and grounding its helicopters as it transited within 12 nautical miles of the islands. Undertaking “innocent passage” is done only in another nation’s territorial waters.

In short, the United States, by its actions, may have actually recognized China’s claims.

We've got your "accidental foreign policy" right here. Some additional details: Did the US just fumble its South China Sea strategy?

Xi Jinping knows a cheap date when he sees one.

[GUS]

Listening to Obama lie and lie and lie and lie and strawman and lie and lie and lie, makes me wonder HOW RETARED are our grown ups. Our media, and our EDUCATED GOVT Bureaucrats are completely RETARDED.
IRAN has NOT BEEN STOPPED from getting a NUKE.
Our UNEMPLOYMENT numbers are not DOWN.
Our Economy is NOT GROWING,
ISIS is NOT CONTAINED.

When does the REVOLUTION begin, VIOLENCE IS COMING. Or we're just frogs in a sauce pan.

This shit is getting VERY SERIOUS.

[JMHanes]

lyle:

"…[Clinton] was a nonpolitical and hard-working secretary of state, who, as she frequently notes, visited 112 countries…."

Maybe Ted Cruz can ask her to name them, in the Presidential debate. The moderators certainly won't.

[narciso]

like an anniversary gift,

http://twitchy.com/2015/12/01/much-of-rep-alan-graysons-senate-campaign-staff-jumps-ship/

[JMHanes]

narciso,

A belated Happy Anniversary on your fortuitous arrival in this wonderful country! I don't think I actually know your story -- how old were you at the time?

[JMHanes]

n -- please don't feel obliged to answer!

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Any idea who is slated for Dondi's vacancy on the GOP side? I'm sure it's unrealistic to expect Allen West amirite?

[Dave (in MA)]

like an anniversary gift,

http://twitchy.com/2015/12/01/much-of-rep-alan-graysons-senate-campaign-staff-jumps-ship/

Even just seeing his name I want to punch him in the face.

[narciso]

I was a wee lad, back then,

it's a big contest Captain, there's my own and jib's congressman, the lt gov, who is also Cuban American, among others,

[Jeff Dobbs]

As to the bear, cindyk, you could also try the Jimmy Buffett strategy...

Liquor

(lyrics)

[narciso]

one problem, their lead candidate, is the layabout that they sacrificed West two, Pat Murphy,

[Stephanie]

http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/2015/12/if-you-are-going-to-buy-a-guitar-this-christmas-buy-one-of-these-gibson-anti-crony-axes-seriously/

Guitar players might want to take note of this..

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

A spirited primary, narc? May the best conservative win! I don't suppose Cheeto Crist will waste anybody's time running for this office, no?

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

ABM: Anybody But Murphy?

[narciso]

yep that's about the size of it,

http://postonpolitics.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2015/12/01/state-reps-rooney-hager-harrell-back-carlos-lopez-canteras-senate-bid/

[Frau Kartoffeln über alles]

Thanks, Lyle. Being married for 59 years is easy enough: chose well and treat him well. As I've said before, he's kept me out of the slammer.

JiB - was that a slam at German food, the country that gave us potato pancakes and Lebkuchen? You didn't catch that the bacon was in **Lithuanian-style potato kugel**?

[matt]

I do believe that the National Manbearpig Love Association is now agitating for Man-Bear marriage as a Constitutional right.

This reminds me of one of the final scenes in Trading Places when they put Al Franken wearing the gorilla suit into the cage with the real gorilla.

[narciso]

yes, I referred to that bit, early in the last thread,

[cindyk]

Jeff: God's Own Drunk....wow don't give me ideas...I'm alone and isolated too too often in Montana...GRIN😉

[Jeff Dobbs]

Heh, cindyk. For some reason that song just started being played regularly at my bar. On someone's playlist on the jukebox it would seem.

[jimmyk]

Mr. Zuckerberg ​and his wife, a doctor, said their daughter is named Max.

Ok, I should probably mind my own business, but I do hope for the kid's sake that Max is short for Maxine, so this is not a 'boy named Sue' situation.

[Frau Niemand]

I once met a woman named Maxima who identified as Asian.

[Dave (in MA)]

Did she have sisters named Sentra and Altima?

[clarice]

See noe, JMH--If we don't stop global warming, not only will our streets be full of fish, but those fantasy islands might get swamped.

[clarice]

About the bear rape--it COULD happen. Remember the flap about the book Libby wrote while in college which featured a young girl caged with a bear who raped her?
I thought bears just ate people. What do I know?

Congrats, frau!

[narciso]

I must have missed that one, I thought his was about a clerk in Japan,

[Frau Niemand]

Thanks, clarice ::smooch::

narciso, I really enjoyed the Japanese tale. I bought it during the Libby debacle. My best friend, a NYT liberal, returned it saying she couldn't read it. We have exchanged books for forty years. Go figure the "Power of Prog."

Dave (in MA), I was reluctant to ask. I only remembered her name because of the auto.
I denounce myself

[Jane]

Okay, I had to skip over the bear rape thing. Any word on the Mayor of Juneau being murdered? Has Daddy been around?

(NOw I will go back and read)