Somebody Won!

A Victory Lap open thread for whomever won the debate last night. Or The Voice, although how much Reality TV can we endure?

As some wag surely noted the big loser was the public's grasp of American foreign policy - in however long this took, there was no discussion of the Iran non-treaty, the climate change non-treaty, Obama's re-opening to Cuba, our fraught relations with China, Putin and the Ukraine, the collapse of Europe in the face of their refugee debacle... actually, a lot was left out.

I came away with the strong impression (as did Doc Drezner) that Ted Cruz has no idea what "carpet bombing" or "saturation" bombing means (or meant) and that The Donald would be up on stage a long time before he realized that conversation about the three legs of our nuclear stool is not a reference to Iron Man on a high-fiber diet.

I thought Rubio did as well as he could on immigration, claiming that his eyes were opened and he learned a lesson about the importance of Border Security First during the Gang of Eight debacle. Ted Cruz was transparently lawyerly in this phase, which was not a good look for him.

The group sing-along to "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Sy-ri-a?" was interesting. Strong support from some for Assad as a strongman in a troubled region, others insisting that Assad must go. Barry Red Line has tried both sides of this debate, so something for everyone.

Comments

[henry]

from our lurker:

Need a new holiday! National Tea Party Day!

On this day in 1773, the Boston Tea Party occurred when colonists, in objection to the Tea Act, dumped 342 chests of tea into the Harbor.

[Jeff Dobbs]

I won the debate. I kept it turned off.

[henry]

Wolf accomplished his goal of making the Republicans look like a bunch of warmongering lunatics.. each more xenophobic than the next. Any sign of sanity was cut off (sorry Carly & Ben & at times Chris) -- and proceeding returned to who would pair off for a slap fest or promise the most crony goodies to Hewitt.

CNN continues to be despicable.

[henry]

6 students suspended from kindergarten for sex in school. Note: Racine Unified is one of the few WI school districts to recertify its union and has a union majority on its school board.

[James D]

I HATE these debates. They do not serve the R's well at all.

Having ten candidates on the stage in a two-hour (less commercials) show is a recipe for disaster to begin witrh, regardless of who the ten are or who the moderators are. It almost inevitably has to devolve into a food fight and contest for who can deliver the best one-liner.

Allowing CNN to moderate the debate and ask every question through a prog lens is a huge mistake, as a lot of folks commented here last night. Yes, when it comes to the general, they'll have to deal with that problem, but during this phase, when the candidates are still defining themselves, allowing CNN or other MSM outlets to shape those definitions is a recipe for defeat next November.

[Threadkiller]

Rubio's continued support for the extra-congressional war in Libya should be enough to knock him off of any conservative's short list.

[anonamom]

Believable. Truthful. Presidential. Definitive.

http://therightscoop.com/frank-luntz-focus-group-loves-ted-cruz/

[Marlene]

The original Tea Partiers were dressed as Mohawk Indians! That is racist! *faints*

[Centralcal on iPad]

Dr. Ben Carson was the mystery cougher - so says Chris Cillizza on Twitter.

[Threadkiller]

Thanks, ccal.

[Threadkiller]

I don't think Fiorina did herself any good with the "men talk but women walk line" she borrowed from Thatcher.

Since I am the resident misogynist, I will defer to others as to whether that comment may have offended male voters.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Our best leaders have always been God-centered. ISTM the only candidate who is not self-centered is Doctor Carson. He understands the dark source of 'political correctness' and how effectively it destroys individual moral conscience and responsibility, and ultimately, entire societies. He knows that only by inspiring the country to return to our founding principles can America be resurrected and restored.

We need inspiration as a nation to recognize and revive our Constitution as the only method to bail us out politically. And the personal example Doctor Carson sets as a man who relies solely on God for wisdom and strength, is a powerful message for each of us.

[Peter]

It did not offend me

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

I don't often disagree with our esteemed host, but I am pretty sure that Cruz has a very good understanding of the meaning of 'carpet bombing.'

That said, I am very happy this morning, as the consensus seems to be that the candidate I support did *very* well last night. Yeah!

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

So does everybody agree that Hewitt is a self promoting blowhard?

[Buckeye]

TK

Carly borrowing from Thatcher didn't bother me. For the most part I agree with her and her positions on the issues.

I think she hurts herself much more by her perpetually angry look. She may be getting dissed because she is a woman, or she may be getting dissed because she has sunk in the polls, not sure.

The "I'm pissed off and I want you to know it" look isn't doing it for "regular guy". He already gets that from his wife.

Maybe it works with some women, but I don't know any that have her at the top of their list.

[Threadkiller]

I dunno, CH. WP says Hewitt is a badass.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/16/did-a-debate-moderator-just-get-donald-trump-to-back-down-yes-yes-he-did/

[lyle]

What are you people talking about? Did I miss something last night? :)

[Buckeye]

Yes I think Hewitt is a blowhard, another embarrassment for Ahia.

I don't like the fact he is making white haired guys look bad either:)

[henry]

Buckeye, take a hint from my nieces... purple dye. leave the white hair to Hewitt.

[Threadkiller]

Yeah, the angry look doesn't play well.

When I'm patching the roof in a lightning storm to keep my family warm and dry, I could do without the extra knowledge that women get it done, additionally when my wife is saving a life, I'm certain she doesn't need to know which man made that possible.

Just like the latino wedge is ridiculous to drape over a truly conservative audience, I think the gender wedge has been worn out.

Trump supporters don't talk about this stuff.

[NK]

henry-- Tea Party 1773? UN-possible. There were no SUVs in 1773, so Boston Harbor was frozen and unnavigable. White Man's lie!

[James D]

Just like the latino wedge is ridiculous to drape over a truly conservative audience, I think the gender wedge has been worn out.

I agree. I think it's a huge mistake for any R to go that route. Going for the broadest demographic category - "the latino vote," "the woman vote" is playing right into the Dem's hands.

They're the ones who make a living telling people that they're defined entirely by what demographic box they fall into, and the interests of that group are defined by - and best met by - a big, powerful, intrusive, progressive government.

When the R's try to play that game, all they're doing is reinforcing a core Dem message.

[D R]

"additionally when my wife is saving a life"

Or ending one.

[Threadkiller]

Dirty Rod is hilarious.

[Dave (in MA)]

Jane won. I've seen the signs.

Reince Pubis came in last.

[buccaneer morgan]

You betcha, captain, last time he was on the milk carton, unfortunately they let him out.

[Old Lurker]

Cruz - Carly.

Stop trying to confuse me.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Hugh Hewitt has always bugged me.

[buccaneer morgan]

The pod gets on my nerves,

[peter]

Marco Rubio reminds me of Rick Lazio, and that is not good, for obvious reasons.

[buccaneer morgan]

Raqqua is berlin, so all their nodes shuld be taken out, that's not the same as Carpet bombing.

[peter]

LUN, maybe they can sell this here in the US and call it a "merkel.'

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I came away with the strong impression (as did Doc Drezner) that Ted Cruz has no idea what "carpet bombing" or "saturation" bombing means...--

Since I didn't watch the debate I'm not sure what this means. Drezner says nothing on the subject but quotes a tweet that says Cruz knows nothing because bombing IS would kill civilians.

Did Cruz suggest one could carpet bomb IS without harming any civilians?
Or was the tweet asserting Cruz is a know-nothing because he suggested carpet bombing IS and doesn't realize that we no longer drop any bombs where we might kill civilians?

[buccaneer morgan]

Mccants has often struck me as a nudge, he doesn't offer a solution,

[NK]

Nixon used Linebacker II pretty effectively to change Ho's heart and mind about Paris talks. Nixon's resignation and 74 Dem Avalanche caused so much hardship, like the '09 Prog Orgy in Congress and EOs.

[buccaneer morgan]

The ypg has not been aided by erdogan, in fact he has often bombed them, Carson was relaying his impressions.

[JeanD]

TM, is your recent blizzard of new posts a symptom of "Trumpocalypse Now!" or did the yuge number of them simply sweep the old masthead away?

[buccaneer morgan]

The coup, nk, we must stop thinking of Watergate as a legitimate function.

[Threadkiller]

Heart of Trumpness.

[Rick Ballard]

Obama Surrenders to Putin

Absolutely no surprise whatsoever.

[NK]

JeanD-- thanks, I hadn't noticed that.

[NK]

watergate was a constitutional coup, but it was the start of the Dem/Media double team, that has become a formal partnership.

[cheerleader]

For some reason people call him U U. I thought he was from California.

[Puddin Floppy-Feet]

Tea Party = Boston = John Kerry

Sailing on Senator John Kerry's Yacht Isabel. Available now for charter at $45K/week. Wonder if taxes are included?

http://www.extravaganzi.com/sailing-on-senator-john-kerrys-yacht-isabel/

[Jeff Dobbs]

Buckeye:
The "I'm pissed off and I want you to know it" look isn't doing it for "regular guy". He already gets that from his wife.

Aha! I always knew I was irregular.

[NK]

RickB-- as John Effin' Kerry, flouncy frenchman would say: "Mais bien sur!"

[Jane]

I admit, I turned the channel to see who won The Voice - and boy can he sing.

TC, the eagle has landed! Thank you!

[buccaneer morgan]

Dreamer is another who was blinded by Obama's pants crease.

[henry]

This is an interesting assessment of Trump.

[Dave (in MA)]

Buckeye | December 16, 2015 at 09:50 AM, maybe the "regular guy" needs to get a nicer wife.

[buccaneer morgan]

I was watching the karellen takeover on childhood's end, recap or prophecy?

[Dave (in MA)]

Lurch figured out a way to cover the taxes that he was previously dodging?

[Buckeye]

"Buckeye | December 16, 2015 at 09:50 AM, maybe the "regular guy" needs to get a nicer wife."

Sounds like Hit figured that out early in life ;)

Hit, you strike me as being pretty "regular". Anybody that plays pool and drinks High Life is regular in my book.

[Rick Ballard]

Henry,

The OODA Loop is old hat, the new,improved buzz involves the Overton Window. Trump has renovated the political house and installed a YUUUGE Overton Window, thereby [INSERT SPECIOUS ANALYSIS HERE].

[henry]

LOL Rick.

[Rocco]

I'm convinced the Carpet-bombing News Network tried to sabotage the front runners with the "killing innocent civilians" meme. After Cruz was asked about it, they took a Twitter (or audience, I forget) question which asked the same thing. Trump and Carson were carpet-bombed too.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

The problem with applying the OODA loop to politics is there are three players not two and the third party is only an observer who makes the final [A]ct when he votes.

And this year a large segment of the third player is so cheesed off that it has so far ignored tactical errors because they endorse the strategy.
Moreover his metaphor of Trump as Imperial Japan fails miserably. There are so many aspects of the comparison that are inapt or backwards that it is worse than useless. It also suffers from the above mentioned problem of a third party that decides who wins not how many carriers are at the bottom of the sea.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I suspect a large majority of Americans would greatly prefer some of their civilians dying rather than some of ours so I'm highly skeptical the policy of not killing our enemies for fear of killing our enemies families is a winning one for any candidate.

[henry]

At a certain level, any analysis is ultimately Tarot or Palmistry.

[Thomas Collins]

Glad to hear that you now have the goods, Jane.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Here's a look at amount of time each candidate spoke . . . what percentage of total speaking time they got . . . and where they currently are in the RCP polling average.

Obviously Trump's not going to get 33% of the time speaking, but he was a little under what you might expect as the clear front runner. Otherwise, it was Christie who got the biggest bump in terms of minutes vs polling.

BTW - you add up all of the minutes - and the candidates spoke for one hour and 42 minutes out of a three hour debate.

[buccaneer morgan]

Peta mallard has to render his opinion, re the huntress's notions the other day.

Btw one of chavezzuela's chief intelligence officers was on the take from exporters.

[Buckeye]

"I suspect a large majority of Americans would greatly prefer some of their civilians dying rather than some of ours so I'm highly skeptical the policy of not killing our enemies for fear of killing our enemies families is a winning one for any candidate."

Completely agree. If the Muslim world doesn't want to wake up with early onset rigor mortis they better reign in their crazy thugs.

[buccaneer morgan]

The iaea discovered the mullahs were lying, unlike Paul pillar's stew in 2007.

[Threadkiller]

Does that speaking time include statements from the candidates?

I wouldn't think so.

[anonamom]

Carly's "angry" look is less than ideally done Botox. Need an artist to not overdo it, leave the right "lifting" muscles so you can still have a neutral looking face when at rest.

Aging is not for sissies. (Or the overly vain. Not that she is.)

I'm A-OK with Cruz-Fiorina

[Buckeye]

"I'm A-OK with Cruz-Fiorina"

I am too.

Botox or no Botox, I like her regardless of how she looks. I have no doubt she could do a fine job of chopping bureaucrat heads, which I am all in favor of.

My old boss used to say when some business activity or company we were turning around was too bloated..."time to shrink it like a prune".

Valuable philosophy.

[NK]

Carly on the Ticket as VP helps on several levels. She brings the positive Trump quality of truth telling, and persuadable women will be... well... persuaded by her, who might be put off by Cruz. Of course persuadable women luv Rubio.

[clarice]

NK. I think Carly is Clinton Kryptonite, myself.

[Buckeye]

NK

Buckeyette is 28, so clearly in the demographic pool of females you would think Rubio would be targeting.

Nonetheless, he had her shouting at the TV last night. She thinks he is a smug asshole. She is clearly brighter than most, so maybe she doesn't fall in the "persuadable" category. But my sample of one has him in trouble with female Millennials.

[NK]

I do to Clarice. She helps Ted, Marco and Le Donald, if there is such a thing as 'help' for Le Donald.

BTW, his daddy was a card carrying commie, can't you tell: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/jeh-johnson-immigrants-web-posting-216795

[Threadkiller]

"Persuadables" is a group that is somewhat pro baby killing and government cheese, but will vote based on looks and gender.

[NK]

unmarried millennial gals the best hope is no turnout b/c they don't like Hilligula. Married w/children 30+ gals is the target.

[Buckeye]

"We are dealing with private communications and things for which there is an expectation of privacy,' Jeh Johnson says in an interview."

Who has any expectation of privacy on any kind of social media??

If you do, you are a moron.

[NK]

looks gender and demeanor. yep, strictly high Q-score voters.

[NK]

Buckeye-- actually the point I took from that is that this cretin and Obummer look for any excuse not to investigate jihadis and Leftists, but they will scour cyberspace to dig anything up about real americans.

[Marlene]

Carly has an angry look? Compared to Hillary? Carly has a pleasant speaking voice.
Hillary's voice is the voice of the meanest teacher you ever had,or when your Mom was really,really angry with you (usually when you were a teen-ager).

[NK]

Marlene-- yes, meanest teacher... and a drunkard.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Who has any expectation of privacy on any kind of social media??--

Well apparently there are privacy settings allowing private discussions between select individuals so I can see a problem with NSA style Hoovering operations.
However, it seems ludicrous to suggest that one has any expectation of privacy anywhere when, as a foreigner, you ask for permission to enter this country from the government entailed with protecting its citizens from foreign maniacs. [There's that word of the day again]

[Old Lurker]

Carly's looks?

Anybody seen Hillary?

Brings to mind a disgustingly dirty joke so I will leave it there.

[JMHanes]

Ignatz:

"Drezner says nothing on the subject but quotes a tweet that says Cruz knows nothing because bombing IS would kill civilians. Did Cruz suggest one could carpet bomb IS without harming any civilians?"

He did try to walk that cat back a bit when pressed for a direct answer.

BLITZER: To be clear, Senator Cruz, would you carpet bomb Raqqa, the ISIS capital, where there are a lot of civilians, yes or no?

CRUZ: You would carpet bomb where ISIS is, not a city, but the location of the troops. You use air power directed -- and you have embedded special forces to direction the air power. But the object isn't to level a city. The object is to kill the ISIS terrorists

Pretty awkward, IMO.

[lyle]

Then just tell me, OL. No one else had to hear it...

[NK]

OL-- disgusting joke? can you dish by e-mail?

[NK]

Lyle-- great minds!

Top 100 Brit authors? feh... this is our line of business

[Old Lurker]

Nope. Wouldn't be prudent.

[NK]

JMH-- Cruz's answer is spot on for a good candidate, no?

[buccaneer morgan]

Not really you don't spell out everything, not rule out anything, Raqqua is the key node and it has been mostly untouched like Quinn said in the homeland opener. This was all too subtle for a Rupert pull in network.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Speaking of maniacs, I was headed out for my daily jaunt to flightaware24.com - I really enjoy tracking those planes!

Found a new one for me, so put the tail number in google, which usually takes me to flightaware.com for the registration information.

Anyway, I saw a link to youtube of my plane . . . and it was this guy.

FBI Uses Mind Reading for Surveillance; FBI Spy Planes N67K

This is evidence of a FBI intimidation tactic towards me in regards to the mind reading surveillance program they are at the moment utilizing on us Americans. This video is 3 clips spliced into one. Notice in the 2nd clip, the FBI plane flies by where I live and then veers 30° east from its original flight path.

I'm putting the plane tracking down and backing away slowly. Nice and easy like so no one gets startled.

[lyle]

Pretty awkward, IMO.

Here, try this on:

http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2015/12/perhaps-most-terrifying-trend-in-todays.html?spref=fb

Only 27 percent said that officers in senior leadership positions had the rank-and-file’s best interest at heart—a clear indicator that careerism is having a corrosive effect on the military. . . . This ‘wussification’ of the US military has probably been underway for decades but it shifted into hyperdrive after the ascendency of Barack Obama. . . . This is not your father’s Army. It isn’t even the Army I joined in 1999

[buccaneer morgan]

The stone program e.g: has been used indiscriminately with little regard for collateral damage.

[lyle]

Fifth #GOPDebate is over. Like the first, not one word about income inequality, climate change, or racial justice. The Rs are out of touch.

— Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) December 16, 2015

[JMHanes]

lyle:

What's as depressing as that stat is the fact that it doesn't surprise me at all. It's going to take a lot more than money to fix it, too.

[Old Lurker]

Jeff, yesterday's flight maps were interesting.

Most of them are perfect circles over and over again like a dog chained out in the yard.

Then you posted one that looked like my grass guy mowing the lawn.

I wonder which one is safer to fly? The circle could put you to sleep, but the other seems to have its own difficulty.

MT?

[henry]

Bernie is out of touch... the climate change got called nuts when ISIS is attacking us.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

The Great Regulation Caused the Great Recession.
Interesting read.

[buccaneer morgan]

There's an op-ed in the journal, re the flaws in
The big short, directed by will Carroll's trainer.

[Jeff Dobbs]

OL:
Then you posted one that looked like my grass guy mowing the lawn.

That's the FBI, mowing your thoughts...

BTW, still no suspicious flights over Clarice's neighborhood.

[lyle]

Fron Iggy's 12:52:

Housing bubbles deflate when delinquencies and defaults begin to appear in unusual numbers. . . . One by one, investors cash in and leave. . . . The reason for this longevity [of 1997-2007] is that one major participant in the market was not in it for profit and was not worried about the risks to itself or to those it was controlling. . . . [T]his was an insider who kept buying, injecting more money into the market. In the end, this insider never sold. . . . Instead, it held onto the assets as they fell in value because it was not in the game for the profits it could reap. This insider was the U.S. government pursuing a social policy.

(Emphasis mine)

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Pretty awkward, IMO.--

I don't have a problem with his answer. Carpet bombing is not exactly a precise term, especially over time.
He pretty clearly is using the term to mean intensive shock and awe type destruction where IS is concentrated rather than indiscriminate, high altitude, WWII like gravity bombardments.