The Cornyn amendment was offered by Republicans as an alternative to the Feinstein amendment. Here is a WaPo description of both:
The Senate rejected a measure... from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) to prevent individuals on the terror watch list from purchasing firearms on a 45 to 54 vote. The amendments were offered to an Obamacare repeal package currently being debated in the Senate and they needed 60 votes to be adopted.
Pretty cursory, but Prof. Volokh has more here, and his theme is an utter disregard for due process. I am not a parliamentarian but the 60 votes were apparently needed to suspend a rule and consider the amendment to be in order.
Over to the Cornyn alternative:
To counter Feinstein’s amendment, Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas) proposed a measure that would give the attorney general the power to impose a 72-hour delay for individuals on the terror watch list seeking to purchase a gun and it could become a permanent ban if a judge determines there is probable cause during that time window.
Cornyn argued that Feinstein’s amendment was “un-American” and violated individuals’ constitutional rights by potentially preventing someone mistakenly on the terror watch list from purchasing a firearm. Cornyn recalled that the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) was once put on the terror watch list by mistake and he argued Feinstein’s amendment presupposed “that the federal government is omniscient and all-competent.”
That didn’t sit well with Democrats.
“To use Sen. Kennedy – let him be on the watch list, he’s not going to go buy a gun and hurt anybody,” Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) argued, calling Cornyn’s alternative “dangerous” and “ridiculous.”
Cornyn’s amendment failed by a vote of 55 to 45.
The Cornyn failure was at least a majority, and since you ask, it included three Democrats with fifty-two Republicans. Yes, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) was a yea. The Nays were all Democrat.
Both amendments can be found in this .pdf file - NoFlyFeinsteinCornyn. Search on "Feinstein" or head to p. 65 for one, then "Cornyn" or p. 75 for the other. The gist of the Cornyn proposal is shown as a picture below.
My question - evidently the Republican Senate was behind this, so one presumes the Cornyn amendment meets the due process concerns aired by Messrs. Volokh, Cooke and others. But have they confirmed that?
And a second question - just what are the Democratic objections? Isn't this at least half a loaf, is it too grave an encroachment on law enforcement "privileges", too hopelessly cumbersome, or what?
Just offhand, if the 2,000 figure in ten years cited by the Administration is meaningful, that is less than one case per business day. They're too busy?
And I feel obliged to add this NY Times editorial denouncing the no-fly list with passion and conviction in April 2014:
After eight years of confounding litigation and coordinated intransigence, the Justice Department this week grudgingly informed Rahinah Ibrahim, a Malaysian architecture professor, that she was no longer on the federal government’s vastly overbroad no-fly list.
...
How can Dr. Ibrahim be a terrorist and not be a threat at the same time? Welcome to the shadowy, self-contradictory world of American terror watch lists, which operate under a veil of secrecy so thick that it is virtually impossible to pierce it when mistakes are made. A 2007 audit found that more than half of the 71,000 names then on the no-fly list were wrongly included.
In a recently unredacted portion of his January ruling, Judge Alsup noted that in 2009 the government added Dr. Ibrahim back to its central terrorist-screening database under a “secret exception” to its own standard of proof. This would be laughable if it weren’t such a violation of basic rights. A democratic society premised on due process and open courts cannot tolerate such behavior.
It's TimesWorld, so it is hard to psychoanalyze this sort of flip-flop. My guess - they have somehow convinced themselves that the only people on the current no-fly list are creepy Christian white guys like the Planned Parenthood shooter or Dylann Roof of Charleston. If and when they realize that it is a list Donald Trump could endorse because the Americans on the list are (very probably) predominately Muslim, well, stand back as they stand up for a misunderstood minority. Oooh, I can feel their outrage just thinking about it...
First!
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:03 PM
Second! Amendment!
Posted by: Peter | December 07, 2015 at 03:09 PM
Dem opposition just confirms my "what if" posted on a previous thread whereby the POTUS just puts all names on the list and forces each to Opt Out with permission only. No judge required.
Posted by: Old Lurker | December 07, 2015 at 03:09 PM
Cornyn is all in for more government and more power for himself. Period.
The Dems are for due process except when it helps liberty -- Cornyn's amendment didn't grow power fast enough for them.
Posted by: henry | December 07, 2015 at 03:10 PM
If I heard the Fed correctly, he said the FBI had an open investigation into the San Bernardino shooter prior to the attack.
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:11 PM
ef'm both Henry.
Posted by: Old Lurker | December 07, 2015 at 03:12 PM
FBI guy in California speaking at press conference.
Listed all the things they are following, have found, are investigating. For example, subjects did target practice at several ranges in LA and they have evidence of that.
He made a point of saying the FBI is a-political. One could take that either way, couldn't one?
Posted by: Miss Marple 2 | December 07, 2015 at 03:12 PM
TM not that hard. When evil Rethuglicans are in control of the No Fly List = Very bad to terrible. When the Fascist Liar Party is in charge, happy days are here again and there is nothing to fear but fear itself ( pay no attention to the IRS in that booth...
Posted by: GMax | December 07, 2015 at 03:14 PM
Increased police presence in the area through the Christmas holidays, says the ATF guy.
Posted by: Miss Marple 2 | December 07, 2015 at 03:15 PM
Here we go...
http://www.nysun.com/national/hillarys-reichsfluchsteueremerges-as-a-tax/89374/
Posted by: Old Lurker | December 07, 2015 at 03:16 PM
Hillary is so typical of all fascist liberals.
And stupid.
Her proposal at 3:16 will keep every buggy whip company here and ensure that no new idea will be birthed inside the US in corporate form ever again. Nobody has ever figured out how to fence in ideas, and in this day and age, locking in capital is nearly as difficult. My lawyer friends will make a fortune making a mockery of this, should it become law.
Posted by: Old Lurker | December 07, 2015 at 03:21 PM
Shemp's buddy Johnathan said "what we do know is Farooq spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on the weaponry."
But the Feds don't know how the two most expensive weapons got into Farooq's slimy paws.
Was the IED factory counted in the "thousands upon thousands" of dollars?
Where did Fox get their estimates?
Narrative building.
Ig, any idea how much the pistols and rifles would have cost?
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:23 PM
Fox Ticker states that there were no prior investigations on Farooq.
I must have heard wrong.
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:26 PM
Hillary adopting policies of Weimar and Nazi Germany....this is my shocked face.
Posted by: NK | December 07, 2015 at 03:27 PM
Not just the weapons, TK. Ammo, tactical gear, pipes, bomb components, explosives, and $65,000 in the bank.
Posted by: Miss Marple 2 | December 07, 2015 at 03:27 PM
and brand new Go Pro cameras!
Posted by: NK | December 07, 2015 at 03:29 PM
http://www.preoccupiedterritory.com/to-get-obamas-attention-isis-renames-self-global-warming/
Posted by: lyle | December 07, 2015 at 03:29 PM
I was listening to that FBI SB update, MM and I sure didn't hear there had been an 'open case' on the Farooks prior to the massacre.
Posted by: glasater | December 07, 2015 at 03:32 PM
That is what the list may be, MM. We have no idea what it actually is.
If the FBI guy says they do not know how the rifles came into the possession of the terror couple, how does the media claim thousands were spent?
Galvanized pipe and caps doesn't seem so expensive, they all know how to make clocks from scratch, the tactical gear(shirts and pants with many pockets) wasn't body armor, etc.
They didn't pay for babysitting and he worked so I'm not sure the case could be made that this is a budget busting arsenal.
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:34 PM
Oops! Iran testing medium range ballistic missile tests. And what is the UN going to do? Stern warnings. That'll do it.
Posted by: Sue | December 07, 2015 at 03:34 PM
OL,
Are you uncomfortable with being placed on Red Witch's No Fly list?
Posted by: Rick Ballard | December 07, 2015 at 03:35 PM
In spite of too many testings in my prior post, this is their 2nd test. The UN is still trying to decide what to do over the October test, when Iran did it again in November.
Posted by: Sue | December 07, 2015 at 03:36 PM
Thanks, glasater. I thought I heard that, but the fox ticker agreed with you.
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 03:37 PM
Overseas airfare for two and an annual salary of $51K gross ( so netting maybe 45K annually after FICA and income taxes ) does not seem to jive with having $65K in the bank. But since they are obvious criminals the warrant for the bank records including every deposit other than the paycheck for the last several years should already be served up...
Posted by: GMax | December 07, 2015 at 03:44 PM
Rick, was it not her own husband who famously commented back in the day that "We should be more like Germany"? We did not know he meant "...in the 1930's..."
As to being on her no-fly list, I confess I now finally understand why my old B-School pal invested a fortune in a deep ocean capable boat, and another fortune in his stash of gold coins and Iggy-like protection that live on it. Silly me.
Posted by: Old Lurker | December 07, 2015 at 03:58 PM
Sssssshhhh.Gun control is coming.Don't struggle.
Relax.
Ssssshhhhh.
Posted by: DublinDaveForever | December 07, 2015 at 04:05 PM
Ol Dingy Harry is really sharp. Teddy Kennedy (a one time member of the no fly list) "isn't going to buy a gun and kill anybody".
Well that's true Harry, now that Teddy is dead and in his grave. You're pretty sharp to point that out.
But Teddy once drove an Oldsmobile and killed somebody. Her name was Mary Jo Kopechne, and she's dead in the water at Chappaquidick. In fact she's just as dead now as she would be if Ol Teddy had pulled out an AK-47 and blown her away.
Posted by: Comanche Voter | December 07, 2015 at 04:07 PM
TK,
You can get a basic pre-built AR for around $600. The cost goes up substantially when you start adding optics, special trigger groups, different sights, rail systems, slings, stocks, flash suppressors, etc. Ammo for the AR can be purchased in bulk for about $300/1000 rounds. Again, the price goes up substantially considering different specs and manufacturers. I haven't caught what to handguns were recovered, but a basic Glock 17(full size 9mm, 17 round magazine) will start around $550. 9mm bulk ammo can be purchased for around $200/1000 rounds. So, to answer is the "arsenal" bank busting? Absolutely not.
Posted by: gentlejim | December 07, 2015 at 04:08 PM
TK
I would estimate the 2 rifles and 2 pistols to be ~$4,000.
Posted by: Buckeye | December 07, 2015 at 04:09 PM
--Ig, any idea how much the pistols and rifles would have cost?--
Can't remember all the makes, but figure ~$1,000 per AR 15 and ~$500 per pistola.
Plus he apparently may have bought the AR 15s second hand, so who knows?
Figure ~$200 per thousand rounds of 9mm and ~$300 for 223.
Very approximate numbers.
Posted by: Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki | December 07, 2015 at 04:09 PM
Never mind, already covered.
Posted by: Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki | December 07, 2015 at 04:10 PM
http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/fd-obama-addresses-congress-after-attack-on-pearl-harbor-t17285.html
Posted by: lyle | December 07, 2015 at 04:12 PM
Iggy,
Are we shopping at the same places for ammo?
Posted by: gentlejim | December 07, 2015 at 04:12 PM
No mincing words here--
Let's Kill Then First
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/12/07/lets-kill-them-first-column/76887412/
In light of the recent attacks, we should remember our heritage and apply it today. Tough citizens don’t give government more power in a crisis. They know that government cannot always be there to protect them. Police and bureaucrats didn’t stop the hijackers of Flight 93 on September 11, the shoe-bomber later that December, the underwear bomber in 2009, or the Thalys train attacker this year. Neither did thicker cockpit doors or ineffective TSA screening. These acts of terrorism were stopped by ordinary citizens.
Posted by: anonamom | December 07, 2015 at 04:14 PM
Via Breitbart, here's a pic of the 2 killers in 2014, when they arrive at Chicago O'Hare Airport.
Yet somehow it's our fault that we didn't try harder to make friends with this smiling, happy couple.
On the other hand, perhaps they're evident unfriendliness is explained by having to listen to nonstop CNN blared thru the O'Hare Terminal. Maybe that's what drove 'em ballistic. Makes a helluva lot more sense than CNN's Erin Burnette's suggestion: CNN Insanity: Erin Burnett Wonders If 'Postpartum Psychosis' Led to Slaughter
Posted by: daddy | December 07, 2015 at 04:14 PM
Via Breitbart, here's a pic of the 2 killers in 2014, when they arrive at Chicago O'Hare Airport.
Yet somehow it's our fault that we didn't try harder to make friends with this smiling, happy couple.
On the other hand, perhaps they're evident unfriendliness is explained by having to listen to nonstop CNN blared thru the O'Hare Terminal. Maybe that's what drove 'em ballistic. Makes a helluva lot more sense than CNN's Erin Burnette's suggestion: CNN Insanity: Erin Burnett Wonders If 'Postpartum Psychosis' Led to Slaughter
Posted by: daddy | December 07, 2015 at 04:14 PM
Cornyn can die in a fire but he gets bonus points for dredging up the memory of fat Turdie (D - Barbed Cock of Satan) who causes the Searchlight Diddler to wheeze away apoplectically.
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 04:15 PM
Frederick and his school go to Radio City Music Hall on Monday for the Christmas Spectacular, 300 kids, 50 faculty, 10 Jitneys and 1 Southampton cop locked and loaded. First time in the history of the annual trip (paid for by a donor). In the New York metro area of which we are consdered a member due to the number of City folk who live out here part time, they share intelligence. Suggested it would be good idea we had a cop on board. He is one of Frederick's classmate's dad.
What I am hearing is they expect one this Christmas in New York. This is why there is all this weapons training and forming special forces in the Metro area. Chatter is that it is all home grown, not recent arrivals.
Posted by: Jack is Back! (On Alert!) | December 07, 2015 at 04:16 PM
Remarkable agreement, you three. The market, it appears, is free.
Posted by: Open, too. | December 07, 2015 at 04:17 PM
Mrs. Malick was kinda cute.
What a waste.
Posted by: DublinDaveForever | December 07, 2015 at 04:17 PM
I'm waiting for Looking Out For The Folks' angle on these low oil prices; should be comedy gold.
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 04:19 PM
daddy,
I can only hope that at sometime in his life as POTUS, post partum psychosis clicks in on his cerebellum and we get someone who gives a shit.
Posted by: Jack is Back! (On Alert!) | December 07, 2015 at 04:21 PM
A Dud; please see Occupied Territory @ 3:29 for the pro stuff.
Posted by: Lost your humour along with your soul. | December 07, 2015 at 04:21 PM
DD, she looks like a dude.... a homely dude.
Posted by: NK | December 07, 2015 at 04:22 PM
JiB-- there was a cop at the Metro North Railroad station this morning (maybe 2/3rd time I've seen one in 25 years), which implies there is info about something up. However, GCT was normal this AM. just the regular number of 9mm carrying Nat'l Guardmen.
Posted by: NK | December 07, 2015 at 04:24 PM
Spread that cost over the 7+years since he started buying them and it really loses the arsenal mystique.
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 04:25 PM
Heh, she looks murderous. Notice he's walking behind her.
Posted by: Get thee behind me. | December 07, 2015 at 04:26 PM
NK,
It's rather unfair to apply 21st century appearance standards to someone living (dying?) in the 7th century.
Posted by: Rick Ballard | December 07, 2015 at 04:27 PM
Comanche Voter | December 07, 2015 at 04:07 PM, yeah, but if she had lived, Kennedy would have brought comfort to her in her old age.
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | December 07, 2015 at 04:27 PM
"DD, she looks like a dude.... a homely dude"
Yeah,she ain't no Farrah fawcett-majors that's for sure.....still,I wouldn't throw her out of the bed for eating Za'atar.
Posted by: DublinDaveForever | December 07, 2015 at 04:27 PM
dumbassdave compares every female to his whore mother who was rejected by Planned Parenthood because of her complete lack of personal hygiene; hence the existence of dumbassdave.
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 04:28 PM
Heh, the imaginative young sot; as if she'd get anywhere near his bed with anything but a well you fill in the blank.
Posted by: Sweet dreams are made of this. | December 07, 2015 at 04:29 PM
CNN Money reports that Ralph Peters, a Fox Business “strategic analyst” who called Obama a “total pussy,” and Outnumbered contributor Stacey Dash, who said the president doesn’t “give a shit” about terrorism, were reprimanded for using profanities on the air. Their punishment? A two-week suspension.
Posted by: Stephanie | December 07, 2015 at 04:30 PM
"dumbassdave compares every female to his whore mother who was rejected by Planned Parenthood because of her complete lack of personal hygiene; hence the existence of dumbassdave"
My Mother wasn't rejected from Planned parenthood.
Posted by: DublinDaveForever | December 07, 2015 at 04:31 PM
Has it been verified biologically that she wasn't a dude?
Posted by: Jack is Back! (On Alert!) | December 07, 2015 at 04:32 PM
I would have suspended them for being too polite, Stephanie.
Posted by: Thomas Collins | December 07, 2015 at 04:34 PM
I'm interested in Granny Farook,if she is anything like Mom Tsarnaev,maybe she shoplifted the pipe bomb materials. Mom Tsarnaev's shoplifting spree was at Lord & Taylor,Granny would have to go the hardware store.
By the way,where is the baby? I believe one of the law enforcement officials said she was in the custody of child services.
Posted by: Marlene | December 07, 2015 at 04:37 PM
'Total Wimp' and 'Give a Shirt' work well, too. C'mon, these are performers, they should know how to jest.
Posted by: Same for you, Dud. | December 07, 2015 at 04:39 PM
How much of a rip does Shemp get for being such a shrieking vag about nothing?
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 04:51 PM
Somebody forgot the memo that there is nothing to fear about the refugee program.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/262316-isis-has-targeted-refugee-program-to-enter-us-chairman-says
Posted by: Bori | December 07, 2015 at 04:58 PM
Juan is talking about GOP running on fear.
I don't think people are afraid, as much as angry and frustrated.
Posted by: Miss Marple | December 07, 2015 at 05:05 PM
and they wonder they are where they are,
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2015/12/07/gop-rivals-trumps-wrong-on-muslim-profiling/
so there is a more sophisticated way of putting it, including radical elements in the matric
Posted by: buccaneer morgan | December 07, 2015 at 05:08 PM
A note on Visas...
I did some snooping and it is easier to get into the country on a fiance visa than it is to get in on a married visa.
The whackjobs married in SA before they but chose to have her enter on a fiance visa not the more accurate married visa.
This took research and planning.
Their committing a terrorist act of some sort was planned wayyyy in advance.
Posted by: Stephanie | December 07, 2015 at 05:08 PM
Laurel Harper, mother of the OR community college mass murderer, amassed an arsenal of guns inside their tiny apartment, took her 26 yo psycho son to target practice, and post-massacre remains free as a bird. That's scarier than 2 dead CA jihadis imo, because no one's tracking murder enabling moms like Laurel Harper.
Posted by: DebinNC | December 07, 2015 at 05:08 PM
Well, I put all crazy people in the same group, jihadi or not.
Posted by: Miss Marple | December 07, 2015 at 05:35 PM
well that''s awkward:
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2015/12/07/did-an-islamic-feminist-scholar-inspire-tashfeen-malik/
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 05:38 PM
I think the merah incident, affects the view of him,
http://www.france24.com/en/20151207-sarkozy-feels-pressure-after-france-regional-election-failure-national-front
imagine if Michael Brown, had let a terrorist attack slip through,
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 05:42 PM
Renzi will not be joining the coalition bombing raids btw,
http://www.thelocal.it/20151207/suspected-terrorist-planned-europe-attacks
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 05:46 PM
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-on-preventing-muslim-immigration
Posted by: Threadkiller | December 07, 2015 at 05:51 PM
A cautionary note from Claire Berlinski on Front National wins in France:
Her piece also includes a quick primer on the French electoral structure.Good news from Venezuela, with sweeping opposition victories in legislative elections. The jury's still out on whether they will end up with an ostensible paradigm-shifting ⅔'s of the seats, which seems a stretch. Bad news is Maduro has till 2019 to change all that, and I don't think the socialists are going to go anywhere quietly.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Cristina Kirchner staffers are busy prying the Ms off the office keyboards...
Posted by: JMHanes | December 07, 2015 at 05:54 PM
they are culturally and socially populist, like grandpere, (including marechal's) allies in the Poujadist movement
https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2015/12/07/end-the-war-on-isis-now/#comments
well we're not having much of a skirmish, for the reasons outlined therein,
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:05 PM
how does one say oops:
http://www.weaselzippers.us/244228-russia-has-the-finest-military-in-the-world-russia-accidentally-bombs-assad-military-headquarters-then-blames-america/
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:08 PM
Welp even Slick didn't blame blowing up the Chinese embassy in Belgrade on anybody knowing full well the Praetorian MFM would toss that nugget down the memory hole in short order. Case in point, when's the last time you've read about that?
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 06:19 PM
JMH,
Good points. Even in the UK there are no Euro parties as conservative in our definition as the Republican party in America. The FN is basically a nationialist concept and the Tories of the UK are more Scoop Jackson democrat than Reagan Republican no matter how they perceive and project Maggie.
They have had numerous times to take out the NHS but insteasd build it up and give it more money. Then look at their immigration policies.
Posted by: Jack is Back! (On Alert!) | December 07, 2015 at 06:23 PM
narciso, flying over Turkey, bombing your ally. Heck of a commercial for using real Garmins in the cockpit instead of Chinese knockoffs.
Posted by: henry | December 07, 2015 at 06:24 PM
well it's a bit embarassing, if they didn't have the coordinates of the eastern most point in Syria,
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:29 PM
The problem with the no fly list as NICS data is not that it's an infringement on liberty . . . it's statistically meaningless, less than a quarter of a percent of the population. Moreover, supporting gun rights for possible terrorists is silly, as is the fear you may be on the list.
It's objectionable because it's silly and a waste of time. Once again, Dems are playing politics, trying to find a focus group tested talking point that will get votes. And defending it on the basis of rights gives them exactly the sound bite they're looking for. Just ridiculing it--does anyone think it'd stop the most backward terrorist from getting weapons?--is the right answer.
Posted by: Cecil Turner | December 07, 2015 at 06:37 PM
Can link on my phone, but hie thee over to Powerline and read Hayward's latest: "The Laziest Liberal Argument."
Posted by: lyle | December 07, 2015 at 06:38 PM
--can't--
Posted by: lyle | December 07, 2015 at 06:41 PM
here you go lyle,
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/12/the-laziest-liberal-argument-the-side-of-history.php
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:42 PM
the voltaire of the age,
http://www.steynonline.com/7343/partying-on-the-precipice
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:45 PM
Yes, forcefully responding to the mewling quim statements of "why aren't you against the terrorist guys getting guns" with "it's nothing but a political look squirrel move which violates the Constitution and doesn't address the real problem, as anybody who isn't a complete dumbass would realize" might get the point across. Who do you think would say that?
Posted by: Captain Hate on the iPad | December 07, 2015 at 06:46 PM
this is not a one off for fraulein geheim
http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/07/ny-daily-news-writer-has-history-of-blaming-terror-victims/#ixzz3teWvNRm2
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:49 PM
in other travismockasham news:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/12/freddie-gray-trial-day-4-medical-examiner-cross-examined-by-defense/
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 06:53 PM
This whole No-Fly meme is just Gorilla Dust coordinated with the Times, meant merely to trap Republicans into "defending gun rights for terrorists".
It's a cheap blogger's trick to win an argument, not a grown-up presidential position.
Posted by: Dusty Gorilla | December 07, 2015 at 06:54 PM
Thanks, narc.
Posted by: lyle | December 07, 2015 at 06:55 PM
This link was posted by Miss Marple this morning a few threads ago.
Anyone who hasn't clicked over to read it yet is really missing out.
http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/12/point-deer-make-horse
This cannot be fixed with logical arguments. That said, there are alternative approaches that stop short of bullet box or the ropes & lampposts some so richly deserve. Jumping with both feet into any budding anti-P.C. backlash is one.
Posted by: FTL | December 07, 2015 at 07:02 PM
you're welcome, when I'm on my phone, I'm not confident of linking either, so I allude,
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 07:03 PM
JMH thanks for that info on FN. I wondered about how much they'd distanced themselves from Grandpere. They seem to have excised the anti-semitism, but still have a ways to go.
Posted by: jimmyk on iPhone | December 07, 2015 at 07:11 PM
So, everyone is clutching pearls and sputtering because Trump said "stop letting Muslims in until we know what's going on."
This may not play well with the Beltway set, but it plays very well in Peoria.
Two people in their 60's were on the bicycles at the YMCA, flanking my friend this evening. They bent her ear for half an hour about how we don't need any more Muslims in the country and how Trump is the only one who will say anything.
Yes, I know there are people in this country like that good Iranian immigrant doctor. And there are Muslims in the military, and plenty of Black Muslims.
The whole problem is that we don't know what's going on. And I go back to my worry the other day: there are too many cases of seemingly westernized Muslims who suddenly go off the rails. Besides the Ft. Hood shooter and the San Bernardino ones, we have that restaurateur in New York who cut off his wife's head, and the guy in Oklahoma who did the same to a coworker. Then we had the Beltway snipers, the numerous and unpublicized jihadi groups in upstate New York and other places, and however major ISIS cases we currently have ongoing.
We do not understand the mechanism for radicalization. Hypnotic suggestion from the mosques? Sleeper agents groomed from childhood? Demonic posssession? We just do not know what's happening.
Posted by: Miss Marple 2 | December 07, 2015 at 07:30 PM
well Berlusconi's coalition party (name escapes me honest) was the former fascist MSI, which got a facelift and turned more freemarket and pro Israel.
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 07:33 PM
up tp a point
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(Italy)
Posted by: narciso | December 07, 2015 at 07:36 PM
There is no pathogen that breeds "radicalization" like it's a disease one catches via air or skin contact.
We didn't sit around wondering what bred all the commies or what pathway led young men to become infected with Nazism.
It's a choice so we killed them. If you kill enough of them you convince those who haven't joined it's not a good idea to make that choice and the ones who have already made the choice are hiding under a rock somewhere.
Simple enough.
Posted by: Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki | December 07, 2015 at 07:45 PM
Ignatz,
So far all the jihadis are either dead or in jail, both here and in France.
I do not see that so far we are deterring them
much. While I think killing them in mass quantities would help a lot, I am still puzzled.
This goes all the way back to that "Not Without My Daughter" movie and the book it was based on. The doctor husband had been in the US 26 years. Had a family, a beautiful home, active in the community and well-liked by everyone. They went back to Iran and BOOM, he went over to the ayatollah and locked his wife up and made her wear the hajib in public.
So I want to know what causes this.
Posted by: Miss Marple 2 | December 07, 2015 at 07:51 PM
MM2,
I'm going with the illness called Islam as the cause.
Posted by: Gentlejim | December 07, 2015 at 08:21 PM