Those Recalcitrant Bitter-Clingers

Seven years later Obama is still denouncing the bitter-clingers in flyover country, this time to NPR. One can almost hear the crunching of arugula in the background:

Obama Accuses Trump of Exploiting Working-Class Fears

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS  DEC. 21, 2015

The headline is baffling - exploiting fears is now a political no-no? - and shows a failure of nerve somewhere in the editorial process. Eventually we get to the real 'accusation'. Spoiler alert - its racism. First time ever, right? Just check your calendar - it will be all about sexism once Hillarity! takes over.

President Obama said in a radio interview airing on Monday that Donald J. Trump, a leading contender for the Republican presidential nomination, is exploiting the resentment and anxieties of working-class men to boost his campaign. Mr. Obama also argued that some of the scorn directed at him personally stems from the fact that he is the first African-American to hold the White House.

Demographic changes and economic stresses, including “flatlining” wages and incomes, have meant that “particularly blue-collar men have had a lot of trouble in this new economy, where they are no longer getting the same bargain that they got when they were going to a factory and able to support their families on a single paycheck,” Mr. Obama said in the interview with National Public Radio.

“You combine those things, and it means that there is going to be potential anger, frustration, fear — some of it justified, but just misdirected,” the president added. “I think somebody like Mr. Trump is taking advantage of that. That’s what he’s exploiting during the course of his campaign.”

Uh huh. Traditionally members of the opposition party run on a message of "things are great and getting better" and promise stability with more of the same. That sort of "future's so bright we need shades" campaign is what carried Mr. Hope and Change into the White House. And the same message worked for Bill Clinton, the Man from Ain't Life Grand Arkansas.

But on to the real trouble with Trump supporters:

He also described his view of the anxiety on which Mr. Trump has capitalized, arguing that some voters who voice fears about his presidency and doubts about where Mr. Obama’s loyalties lie are reacting to the fact that he is the first black president.

“If you are referring to specific strains in the Republican Party that suggest that somehow I’m different, I’m Muslim, I’m disloyal to the country, etc. — which unfortunately is pretty far out there, and gets some traction in certain pockets of the Republican Party, and that have been articulated by some of their elected officials — what I’d say there is that that’s probably pretty specific to me, and who I am and my background,” Mr. Obama told Steve Inskeep, an NPR correspondent. “In some ways, I may represent change that worries them.”

“That’s not to suggest that everybody who objects to my policies may not have perfectly good reasons for it,” the president added. He noted, as an example, that voters living in coal-dependent areas may blame him for the loss of their jobs.

Good to know the racist haters may not be totally out to lunch. To be fair, (and based on "If you are referring to specific strains" in Obama's answer) the interviewer was not going to let Obama leave until he said something along those lines - these progressives need a bit of red meat in their diet too, or did you think their smug, self-satisfied condescension can be fueled entirely by kale and cottage cheese? Sure, if Obama had any interest in acting like the President of all Americans he would have dismissed that line of inquiry, but that ship sailed years ago.

Over to Krugman for his one-time PSA that yes, importing legal and illegal unskilled workers depresses the wages of the native unskilled. Who could have guessed that increased supply reduces the market-clearing price?

Second, while immigration may have raised overall income slightly, many of the worst-off native-born Americans are hurt by immigration -- especially immigration from Mexico. Because Mexican immigrants have much less education than the average U.S. worker, they increase the supply of less-skilled labor, driving down the wages of the worst-paid Americans. The most authoritative recent study of this effect, by George Borjas and Lawrence Katz of Harvard, estimates that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration.

Obviously liberal academics everywhere have been working double-time to reverse that result. Along with providing intellectual cover for the idea that raising the minimum wage actually increases employment, showing that bringing in more unskilled workers raises the wages of the native unskilled is a great white whale of progressive economics. But even showing the counter-intuitive result that neither minimum wage increases nor waving in unskilled workers have any impact at all on wages would be a huge win for the "reality-based".

Let's wrap this up with some good news for Obama - those unskilled white troglodytes are dying like flies anyway. Ross Douthat has thoughts about why that might be. Obviously this would be a national crisis if it was some other group favored by progressives but if the topic was even broached in this interview, the Times didn't mention it.

DO TOUCH THAT DIAL: Oh, great! Now we learn that it is not that Obama doesn't watch enough television, it is that the rest of us watch too much:

“This is a serious challenge — ISIS is a virulent, nasty organization that has gained a foothold in ungoverned spaces effectively in Syria and parts of western Iraq,” Mr. Obama said, referring to attacks the group organized in Paris and apparently inspired in San Bernardino. “But it is also important for us to keep things in perspective, and this is not an organization that can destroy the United States.”

He also suggested that heavy coverage of the media-savvy extremist group by news outlets chasing viewership had contributed to the public anxiety that has dragged down his approval ratings on the issue.

“If you’ve been watching television for the last month, all you have been seeing, all you have been hearing about is these guys with masks or black flags who are potentially coming to get you,” Mr. Obama said. “And so I understand why people are concerned about it.”

Asked whether news organizations had been manipulated by the Islamic State, he added: “Look, the media is pursuing ratings. This is a legitimate news story.”

Yeah, America, have you been slacking lately? Have you frittered away your time becoming terrorized about ISIS and are no longer keeping with the Kardashians? And I hope you don't think those adorable internet kitten videos will watch themselves!

Comments

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

Right, it's all our fault, because racism.

[jimmyk]

"...what I’d say there is that that’s probably pretty specific to me, and who I am and my background..."

Huh, Obama thinks it's all about him, what a shocker.

[squaredance]

Oh how embarrassing it is to have this person in the WH. It is degrading; it is humiliating.

And yet, a substantial portion of the nation things that he manifest something high, noble and meaningful--or at least cares enough about them to keep the checks coming in.

But of course Obama merely is the more prominent exemplar of the Progressives. They are all more or less just like him. Some are, believe it or not.

These people should not be allowed to run a gas station, let alone the country or its major institutions.

No wonder we are facing such decline given their prominence.

It all reminds one of the arrogant,effete and incompetent European aristocracy prior to WW1.

It cannot hold much longer, though one wonders of a revival is yet possible.

[Peter]

Given the merde touch, zero's attack on Trump should raise the poll numbers . Please attack Ted Cruz Mr. PRESIDENT

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

404, who has never worked a day in his needy mentally ill life, lecturing an NPR apparatchik on what working people think is really bad comedy club material. Too bad Steve Harvey didn't wait another year to screw up the Miss Universe thingy because there's a real life Rupert Pupkin ready to take over and hector the likes of Miss Puerto Rico on what "our values" are.

[buccaneer morgan]

Specially in light of the Randall mcmurphy deal he has done to the coal fields,

[buccaneer morgan]

Well nurse ratchet but you get the metaphor, so general flynn is getting flak because he has given some kudos to volodya's ravagers act in the levant.

[NK]

Trump demagoguing? Quelle Suprise! It is interesting that Trump chooses to demagogue on behalf of native workers.. and the NY Times shrieks that is a BAD THING. But literally every word, every word out of a Prog's mouth demagogues on behalf of the parasite class, illegal migrants, rent seekers who want to kill the unborn, atheists and Muslims who attack Judeo-Christianity et al, and the Slimes partners in that Prog demagoguery immediately.

[buccaneer morgan]

Parallels are inperfect but this was silvio's deal as well, he was pagan in his sensibilities but he courted the believers in the Christian democrats, the Vitter climbers in the northern league, and tied it together under his soccer team banner. Hence eco and camilleri have been howling for 20 years.

[henry]

Of course via Thomas Lifson we have the true ISIS recruiting tool. A bent tool, likely diseased. But we're talking ISIS here.

[henry]

Shocker: Miss Lindsey dropping out of race.

[NK]

henry-- did he run out of sensible but stylish flats to wear?

[buccaneer morgan]

History does rhyme,henry, ubl wouldn't have been able to get very far if Kandahar was getting shock and awed, some of the same objections to targeting raqqua, were being raised then. Of course the fight has shifted to the braquers in the ban lieus and assorted hamlets.

[Miss Marple 2]

henry,

COuntering with our own videos is going to be difficult.

There are very few Frank Capras in today's Hollywood, and those are the skill sets we need.

I think a good case could be made for some of the rise of ISIS being laid at the feet of Hollywood, which has been churning out anti-American films at a 10:1 ratio since the late 1960's.

[Dave (in MA)]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/12/unknown_substance_sickens_at_least_a_dozen_at_seca.html

There's a guy at work with BO who could easily pull that off just by showing up.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

I'm waiting for Trump to issue a shot across the bow of the USS Pantsuit that her predator husband will be a staple of his campaign ads.

[buccaneer morgan]

Apparently it is not the season in the sudan, but when is it ever, Kitchener took it by force of arms after omdurman.

[Miss Marple 2]

Dave,

HA! Years ago I worked at a high-end furniture store in sales. The #1 seller was a very elegantly dressed gal, very pretty, who wore some horrible perfume which, when she started to sweat, combined to make the worst BO I had ever smelled. Seriously.

She also was the number one seller. My good friend at the store swore people bought stuff just to get away from her. One time I came around the corner of a display room and one of her customers had stepped away from her and was smelling HIS armpits! HAHAHAHAHA!

[squaredance]

This seems apropos.

[buccaneer morgan]

How is it the real jayvee recruiting video isn't being run 24/7, sarc

[James D]

MM @ 9:51

Our elites, in DC and Manhattan and Hollywood, all despise the very values and history that have given them their position and their wealth and power and all the media tools they currently use to lecture us about how stupid and backwards and racist and terrible we all are.

[Miss Marple 2]

I want to post again on this thread that Donald Trump was on the Today Show this morning and is demanding an apology from Hillary for her statement that he is featured in ISIS recruiting videos. He said it is a lie, and she lies all the time, from Whitewater to Benghazi.

He used the word LIE. I believe that is the first time a GOP candidate has used the plain truth about her lying without using euphemisms.

[James D]

An enterprising reporter (I know, I know) could certainly go back and document all the times over the past few years that prominent Democrats, and Democrat political strategists, and Democrat-aligned pundits, have bragged about how they don't need blue collar voters, they don't need the South, they don't need white men.

Then that reporter could provide all that material to someone who's interviewing Zero and ask him: "Do you think the fact that your own party has, in effect, told a big electorate to go to hell has anything to do with opposition to you and your policies?"

[buccaneer morgan]

Why hasn't the real benghazi recruiting tape, the one with zawahiri putting out the call never been shown, joscelyn has it, or the footage of the actual assault.

[buccaneer morgan]

You certainly have something there, Shane black who authored that big budget flop long kids goodby, which some has used as a template for 9/11 denial, fifteen years later, penned the last ironman script, which curiously fit into the white house narrAtive, post election.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

Trump is refusing to go along with the GOPe strategy of not firing back against outrageous accusations which are almost always out and out lies. I'm not sure what imbecile decided on not confronting bogus claims as an overall strategy but TEH ARCHITECT steered GWB away from responding to the no weapons of mass destruction canard.

[sbw]

Juxtapose that ISIS video with Juan Williams and his ilk on Fox dismissing ISIS terrorism as a threat.

[Man Tran]

NK,

With 4K bright, tough kids in Bancroft, I'm sure there were a few that grew up in da hood and remembered the mob story. In MTJr's experience, even your best buds in your Company had a short list of badgering memes to razz you with. All part of the toughening up process.

[NK]

MT-- indeed, back in the day Canoe U practiced MACROagression, although probably no longer the case. My B-I-L '84 always had a sweet tooth, so he spent his plebe year saluting the Coke and candy vending machines every time he passed by them.

[NK]

Anyone see Star Wars? Any good? My son liked it.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/watch/joe-arpaio-on-trump--birther-conspiracy-589022787721

[jimmyk]

One thing I didn't care for in the Snufflapogus's Trump interview was when Trump bragged about his opposition to going into Iraq, and suggested that it contributed to destabilizing the region. That shows poor judgment IMO, as it plays into the left's obsession with W's villainy. It's true he also mentioned 404's abandonment of Iraq, but by then the damage was done.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--One thing I didn't care for in the Snufflapogus's Trump interview was when Trump bragged about his opposition to going into Iraq, and suggested that it contributed to destabilizing the region.--

If one argues that dethroning Assad, Mubarak and Kadhaffi destabilized those countries and the region, as many on the right correctly do, it is philosophically consistent to argue that booting Saddam did as well.

[buccaneer morgan]

Yes that has been one of the major objections to him, Cruz seems to think that as well, but in a lower key. Rove allowed that squirrel to roam free, and we can't put it back in the pen.

[jimmyk]

Well, it's not like the region was a Shangri-La of stability in the first place. I think Republicans need to circle the wagons around defending Iraq--at least to the point of saying that we don't know the counterfactual of leaving Saddam in power, and that Barry and Hillary are responsible for destabilizing the region by the pullout in 2011 and the Libyan stupidity in 2012. That may be a simplification, but the alternative is letting the lesson be that everything is Bush's fault.

[jimmyk]

Also their siding with the MB in Egypt.

[pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

I put it at the end of the last thread but believe it belongs on this new thread.

The worse news - it was not Hillary.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-makes-arrests-over-venezuelan-energy-corruption-scheme-010747740--finance.html

"violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and engaged in money laundering, a Justice Department spokesman said."

IMO, there is no way that Hillary and Bill have sucked up all the foreign money they have and not violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

[Threadkiller]

A nice side effect of Trump's position is it leaves the media having to take the side of "saber rattling" and "nation building" to try and discredit him.

Persuadeables will flock to our side having just realized the media has not ever been for the little guy.

[Jane]

Great article by VDH Squaredance!

https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/the-post-obama-era/?singlepage=true

[Threadkiller]

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/12/the_felon_in_the_white_house.html

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--I think Republicans need to circle the wagons around defending Iraq--at least to the point of saying that we don't know the counterfactual of leaving Saddam in power, and that Barry and Hillary are responsible for destabilizing the region by the pullout in 2011 and the Libyan stupidity in 2012. That may be a simplification, but the alternative is letting the lesson be that everything is Bush's fault.--

I think Republicans need to determine the truth.
It is true that once we were there we needed to stay there to avoid defeat and the chaos we now have.
But until Republicans admit that exporting our political system to cultures openly hostile to it and attempting to bring self determination to other parts of the world, no matter how laudable the concept, is a largely impossible feat, people will be rightly concerned we will waste trillions more dollars and thousands of more lives trying to turn our enemies into our friends by building a nation for them.
Japan and Germany are the exceptions, not the rule.

[squaredance]

Well of course it is not really just "white men" it is white woman and white children too..

Basically, they have to villainize those they would steal from and would destroy--it is their way of dealing with what risdual conscience that they have left.
Should they ever finally destroy white men, they will turn on white women (and blacks or gays too for that matter--in fact, if the blacks ever turn against them the racism the manage to hide (sometimes) would come into to the fore).

Basically, they hate western civilization--perhaps even civilization itself.

Perhaps there is deep in there souls understandable emotions like envy, self loathing,etc., perhaps they project their self hatred on the rest of us. Even if true, this does not matter.

They are barbarians at heart. arrogant, ignorant, nihilistic, hedonistic and uncivilized barbarians, and are so even when hectoring us from the podiums of the college class rooms or the NYT.

They are there for the looting and destruction. They have absolutely nothing to offer in return. Not one decent thing.

[Sue]

He is so wrong. If Hillary becomes president I will despise her just as much.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Just to make sure everyone realizes this, that new NASA paper claiming burning fossil fuels and cutting down trees cools the climate is in fact an argument that global warming is EVEN WORSE THAN THEY THOUGHT!

They have long had a hard time explaining previous cool spells and have tried, mostly unsuccessfully, to attribute them to aerosol emissions.
This new "data" just happens to let them now claim that previous flat temp trends were due to aerosols more than they realized and that they masked the real and powerful role of CO2.

Given their history it is probably only a matter of time before this is revealed as genuine a type of science as NASA and NOAA's previous massaged propaganda.
Your tax dollars at work.

[Man Tran]

NK: American Gangster! A movie made about Frank Lucas and that whole mess. MTJr wasn't sure how close to reality the script was.

[narciso]

well lets look at the big picture, in Korea we defended a feudal right wing regime, against massive Chinese hordes and we fought to a stale mate, in South Vietnam there was a similar framework, yet as Moyar points out, we knocked over the strong horse, before the first act began,

in Central America, the second casting call for quagmire, they assisted ruthless sometimes corrupt regimes by proxy fight, yet they were able to hold off, the Soviet trained pawns to a point,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Giant botfly maggot removed from dude's head.
Disgusting but fascinating.
H/t some dude at WUWT.

[narciso]

mostly bunkum,

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LJ16Ae01.html

[Groty]

Actually, it would be political malpractice for a candidate NOT to exploit legitimate fears. The Democratic Party has proven it hates anyone who makes a living in the coal, oil, gas, pipelines and refinery industry. Democrats want to destroy their livelihood. People who work in those industries have a reason to fear Democrats. There is no reason why anyone remotely associated with those industries should ever vote for a Democrat ever again.

Likewise, importing unskilled immigrants is intended to keep the wages of unskilled Americans down. Both of those are reality: Democrats want to destroy your livelihood if you are associated with fossil fuel and they want to keep wages for unskilled Americans depressed. Any politician who does not exploit either of those "fears" does not deserve to win.

[sbw]

If one argues that dethroning Assad, Mubarak and Kadhaffi destabilized those countries and the region, as many on the right correctly do, it is philosophically consistent to argue that booting Saddam did as well.

But Saddam has to be put into context that Saddam was trying to bluff Iran into believing he had WMD and would use them.

Simple explanations often tend to be . . . too simple.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Floating islands of plastic garbage in the ocean is, surprise, a myth.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--But Saddam has to be put into context that Saddam was trying to bluff Iran into believing he had WMD and would use them.--

Can't decide whether "who cares" or "so what" is the better response so, I'll take both.

[narciso]

the narrative, did sell the meme, that the Vietnam War was fought in part, to get the ghettos adicted to heroin, just like the killing the messenger film about another era,

[Beasts of England]

Having my girls over for Christmas dinner tonight. Prime rib, natch. And because I'm such a nice guy, the 'girls' includes my ex-wife. Anyhoo, just finished the Green Goddess dressing. Yummy. And because I'm such a nice guy, here's my Christmas present to you. My most guarded recipe...

Green Goddess dressing

- 1 clove minced garlic
- 1/2 tsp. salt
- 1/2 tsp. finely ground pepper
- 1/2 tsp. dry mustard
- 1 tsp. Worcestershire
- 2 tbsp. anchovy paste
- 3 tbsp. tarragon vinegar
- 3 tbsp. minced chives
- 1/3 cup snipped parsley
- 1 cup mayonnaise
- 1/2 cup sour cream

Simply combine all the ingredients and you're good to go. You can make it the night before without issue.

I use butter lettuce for the salad. Bibb works, as well. You can serve anchovies on the side, just in case the dressing isn't pungent enough!

Smooches!!

[jimmyk]

I think Republicans need to determine the truth.

Iggy, I'm sympathetic with your view, but the "truth" as a counterfactual is not really knowable, and sometimes in a political fight to the death one has to posture a bit for the sake of the cause. Conceding that Iraq in its entirety was a mistake (which is not a slam dunk but for 404's mishandling) lets the Dem sharks smell blood. One can defend it at least against the most scurrilous charges ("Bush lied," etc.) while still making the case that we ought not venture into nation-building or into conflicts in which our national interest is not at stake.

[narciso]

the cake was already baked ten years ago, that's what the plame case, was about, with supporting players like drumheller and murray, at least one of which has been working with sid vicious for at least as long,

[cheerleader]

His position hasn't evolved, it's the same as it was even when all the Democrats supported Bush's move to topple Saddam. But once in, he believes they should have stayed and collected some form of compensation for the thousands of lives lost and wounded, and billions or trillions of dollars spent, for which the U.S. got NOTHING back. His case is that politicians are downright stupid, just like the one-sided trade deals are stupid and the Iran deal was stupid. Iran gets billions of dollars and the U.S. doesn't even get one hostage back.

[NK]

BoE--

Prime Rib and that salad dressing? Yum, absolutely delicious.

[narciso]

no, he drifted into they 'lied us into war' carp,
as well, now many of these casualties were wrought by the same folks who now compose the jayvees and the varsities teams in Syria, as C.J, Chivers obliquely points out,

[sbw]

I'll take both.

Hah! Ig, you are welcome to share our table any time.

[matt]

So Gibbs and Panetta and now Hagel all trash Obama for his incompetence, his micromanagement of DoD and his hostility to those who work there.

These people all speak politician, so we can only imagine what the less politically correct are saying and thinking.

[boris]

"But until Republicans admit that exporting our political system to cultures openly hostile to it and attempting to bring self determination to other parts of the world, no matter how laudable the concept, is a largely impossible feat, people will be rightly concerned we will waste trillions more dollars and thousands of more lives trying to turn our enemies into our friends by building a nation for them.
Japan and Germany are the exceptions, not the rule"

Since the US did not apply the same level of cultural reprogramming compared to Japan and Germany your claim is FUBAR hollow.

The American resolve that defeated and reprogrammed Japan and Germany may no longer exist. Or ... it may be that WWII was the source of that resolve and 9-11 just wasn't in the same ballpark. Problem is how much resolve is available depends on a lot of factors. For example: the MFM and dimorats engineered defeat in Nam and Iraq and did so by largely reprogramming American culture.

[Captain Hate on the iPad]

What jimmyk wrote goes for me.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Iggy, I'm sympathetic with your view, but the "truth" as a counterfactual is not really knowable...--

The truth to be recognized is not a counterfactual.
It's that islamic, particularly ME islamic countries are notoriously hostile to the individualistic, free, self governing model of the West.
Turkey has marginally managed it for some time but they are unique geographically, ethnically and culturally.

--One can defend it at least against the most scurrilous charges ("Bush lied," etc.) while still making the case that we ought not venture into nation-building or into conflicts in which our national interest is not at stake. --

That's what I'm doing.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

SBW; :)

[boris]

"notoriously hostile to the individualistic, free, self governing model of the West"

So was Japan.

[jimmyk]

Via Tim Blair, some "improvements" on Michael Moore's "We are all Muslims" sign.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/18/michael-moore-stood-in-front-of-trump-tower-and-held-up-a-sign/

[boris]

The way things are headed it may eventually come down to a choice: Reprogram or destroy.

[narciso]

there was always something off about Obama, the bowie character in the man who fell to earth, comes to mind, he is sometimes strikingly unempathetic, like when boasted about debating whether his grandmother would get the hip replacement, the whole dialogue about giving people a pill, instead of life saving treatment,

[lyle]

Now for the most important question, BoE:
what wine(s) are you serving? :)

My dinner and wine last night was awesome. The political bickering between my friend Greg and me while our wives said nothing was quite less so. But I did learn that he's leaving the country if Cruz gets elected...

[pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

"For example: the MFM and dimorats engineered defeat in Nam and Iraq and did so by largely reprogramming American culture."

All designed by William Ayers, John Kerry and their friends IMO.

[Jane]

Joe Trippi can't figure out what Lindsay Graham didn't catch on.

Time to retire Joe.

[jimmyk]

And for you conspiracy theorists, now that you have non-flouridated drinking water:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldapparel/shield-the-world-s-first-signal-proof-headwear

[narciso]

Joe has one note, from his days with Yeargh, he works behinds the scenes freeing gitmo detainees,

[narciso]

meanwhile back at the ranch:

http://www.mfs-theothernews.com/2015/12/two-tunisian-belgian-brothers-arrested.html

[Dave (in MA)]

Lakeisha Holloway identified as driver in deadly 'intentional' accident on Las Vegas sidewalk, accused of plowing into crowd.

Root cause Trump or global warming, I'm guessing.

[narciso]

norman podhoretz broached this notion, twenty five years ago,

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/195438/lamentation-for-israel

how could you still be an Obama supporter!

[Miss Marple 2]

Regarding going into Iraq:

What is the one unique feature of Iraq compared to Germany and Japan, class?

Apparently secular Islamic nations (Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran) can be moved to a radical one without much effort other than a brutal and fundamentalist group moving in.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Since the US did not apply the same level of cultural reprogramming compared to Japan and Germany your claim is FUBAR hollow.--

Nazism and to a lesser extent imperialistic Japan were aberrations for both countries.
Neither had the ~1400 years of marinating that the ME has had in islam.
The majority of Germans were happy to shed the Nazis and the Japanese were happy to redirect whatever international ambitions they had to trade.

OTOH, when we ousted Saddam, to the shia majority we were removing an illegitimate, internal reprogramming of the legitimate national culture. To the sunni True Believers we dethroned a secular dictator and to the secular sunni we dethroned a rabid dog.
In no case except possibly for the Kurds were we seen in a role analogous to our role in WW2.
To the Arabs in Iraq we were merely the method by which the Baathists were dethroned, which was seen as an opportunity by all parties to revert to their more traditional islamic culture which is the very thing that makes our style of self governance so difficult.

The idea we can simply go in and reprogram 1400 years of culture and belief is what is FUBAR.

[narciso]

well there was already a turn toward Salafism in the 90s, partially due to the regime's corruption, and partially on purpose.

http://babalublog.com/2015/12/20/castro-loving-cardinal-accused-of-stealing-funds-from-childrens-hospital/

[Puddin Floppy-Feet]

NK,

Frederick, Mrs. JiB and I went last Friday night to see Star Wars. Loved it, great concept continuing the series. Excellent directing, story and special effects. New faces and old faces. Worth the time to spend watching it.

Don't know if this has been noted or mentioned but Trump sold out his interest in Miss Universe and the guy heading it up now is Rahm Emmanuel's brother Avi. He goes by the name Avi Gold and was on Entorauge. Lot of discussion on the radio how if Trump was still in charge this would have never happened simply because he looked at everything and did all the rehearsals.

BTW, Ever wonder what Donald Trump would sound like with a British accent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUGT30gGtiI

[DublinDaveForever]

Have a good Christmas in Hawaii, Mr.President. You deserve it because you real nailed it this year.Deal with iran,Cuba,the world climate summit....Gay marriage,historical job creation,Dow kickin ass......Merry Christmas Sir xxxxx

[DublinDaveForever]

sorry....really

[Puddin Floppy-Feet]

...Entourage...

[boris]

"To the Arabs in Iraq we were merely the method .. etc"

Your evaluation of Iraqi culture is not consistent with my brother's (2 tours in Iraq with Army Corps of Engineers).

[narciso]

I thought so, too, PFF, there were homages to the original, and even some riffs you see in the Trek reboot,

[boris]

Just did a quick Google for something along theses lines. Pretty sure there are plenty more. This is Iran in 1970:

So go ahead and tell me how locked into dysfunction they are and can never get out of.

[Threadkiller]

Authorities are still trying to determine a cause, and while terrorism is not suspected, officials “are not 100 percent ruling out terrorism,” Lombardo said.

Fox ruled it out last night.

[daddy]

Good Morning!

Lindsey Graham leaves Republican presidential race

Who picks up his 3 supporters?

[narciso]

sounds like a discarded CSI script, like the series finale,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--So was Japan.--

Clearly they weren't. While Japan has a rigid culture in which individual accomplishment is downplayed, excellence and achievement are revered.
Assuming this ability to reprogram exists, which I very sincerely doubt, where is the evidence it exists in Arabia?

[narciso]

how did the First Order rise, out of the ashes of the Rebel's triumph, it's the story we're still mulling over,

[Miss Marple 2]

boris,

There are similar pictures from Afghanistan of the 1960's.

The question I have is how is it that these seemingly secularized Islamic countries were so easily thrown back into medieval thinking?

And why is it that Muslims born in this country and raised in the American system are drawn to medieval thinking?

I really want to know if anyone is studying this, because it is bothering me a lot. What is it in their desire to become religious flips them over to jihadists?

[Jack is Back!(and On Alert)!]

boris,

That's actually Afghanistan in 1970 not Iran.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--So go ahead and tell me how locked into dysfunction they are and can never get out of.--

Persians are culturally significantly different than Arabs and probably have the best chance of throwing off the reigns of islam if given the chance.
But as an aside, were the Iranians free or self governing at the time that picture was taken?

--Your evaluation of Iraqi culture is not consistent with my brother's (2 tours in Iraq with Army Corps of Engineers).--

I have no doubt a significant portion of every Arab country would make excellent self governors but the facts on the ground and history speak for themselves; that significant portion is almost always subsumed by and at the mercy of those who abide by and cling to the miseries and power of orthodox islam and the tyranny it incubates.
If not give us the examples of free and self governing Arab states in the last few hundred years.

[narciso]

well lets look historically it took nearly a hundred years for the french to get the militancy
that the revolution had ignited out of their system
through both napoleons, with the Bourbon interlude, a slightly shorter cycle for Germany,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--the guy heading it up now is Rahm Emmanuel's brother Avi. He goes by the name Avi Gold and was on Entorauge.--

That was just a character modeled on him, no?
Wasn't really him was it?

[boris]

Iggy: "notoriously hostile to the individualistic, free, self governing model of the West"

Boris: So was Japan

Iggy: "Clearly they weren't. While Japan has a rigid culture in which individual accomplishment is downplayed ..."

I don't think "Clearly" means what you think it means. If you like we can continue this discussion in non Vizzini mode at some later time.

[daddy]

Buttressing Cecil's point yesterday about "time is our enemy", here's General Keane today on FOX Business:

Host: We just heard Senator Rick Santorum suggesting that you have said maybe 10,000 (Troops) might be required to take out ISIS in the Middle east. Is that an accurate number?

Gen Keane: My basic issue with the President concerns his policy in the sense that he believes this is going to take several years to defeat ISIS. Given ISIS global strategy that they've executed, as painful as we're becoming aware of it now; San Bernadino, Paris, Lebanon, Turkey, it's obvious that ISIS is moving at a much faster pace than our strategy can cope with it. So the basic policy change is urgency, resolve, and get on with doing this much more rapidly and not defer this to the next Administration. 10,000? That's not combat troops. It's trainers, advisors, and air controllers helping the Iraqi's finally get their act together.

[NK]

Rahm does have a hollywood agent brother named Ari.