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January 15, 2016


Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Damn it. Should have saved my NY rant for this thread.

Miss Marple

In my opinion, the New York Times is now pushing Cruz in the hopes that Trump can be stopped.

First let's hear from Frank Sinatra:

Start spreading the news
I am leaving today
I want to be a part of it
New York, New York

These vagabond shoes
They are longing to stray
Right through the very heart of it
New York, New York

I want to wake up in a city
That doesn't sleep
And find I'm king of the hill
Top of the heap

My little town blues
Are melting away
I'm gonna make a brand new start of it
In old New York

If I can make it there
I'll make it anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York!

On the other hand, let's hear from Meridith Wilson:

Oh, there's nothing halfway
About the Iowa way to treat you,
When we treat you
Which we may not do at all.
There's an Iowa kind of special
Chip-on-the-shoulder attitude.
We've never been without.
That we recall.
We can be cold
As our falling thermometers in December
If you ask about our weather in July.
And we're so by God stubborn
We could stand touchin' noses
For a week at a time
And never see eye-to-eye.
But what the heck, you're welcome,
Join us at the picnic.
You can eat your fill
Of all the food you bring yourself.
You really ought to give Iowa a try.
Provided you are contrary,
We can be cold
As our falling thermometer in December
If you ask about our weather in July.
And we're so by God stubborn
We can stand touchin' noses
For a week at a time
And never see eye-to-eye.
But we'll give you our shirt
And a back to go with it
If your crops should happen to die.

So, what the heck, you're welcome,
Glad to have you with us.

Farmer and Wife:
Even though we may not ever mention it again.

You really ought to give Iowa
Hawkeye Iowa
Dubuque, Des
Moines, Davenport, Marshalltown,
Mason City, Keokuk, Ames,
Clear Lake
Ought to give Iowa a try!


I can't find any songs about New Hampshire, so we will leave them out of this kerfuffle.

I think Cruz loses votes in New Hampshire because there is a certain touchiness in the northeast about being considered rather debauched by the rest of the country, which is, of course, as parochial a statement as those of some New Yorkers who think the Midwest is one giant corn field with intermittent hog farms.

Unnecessary controversy, in my opinion.

Thomas Collins

Don't worry, Ignatz, I read it, and I'm sure several others did too. But I'm going to steadfastly defend NYC values. As a young teen, I found those gals dancing half clothed at the Metropole Cafe to be quite a sight. And I could watch from the street! Yes, I know the Metropole was known as a great jazz club but, at least in my yute, it had great exotic dancers on stage! Take that, Cruzman! :-))

Jeff Dobbs

From the chitown lurking unit...who adds, "In Cook County, IL, this would be better known as a 'Fundraising Letter'".


The Obama administration will put a pause on all new federal coal leases while it reviews its program's methods for reviewing environmental and health impacts as well as its valuation of coal owned by the federal government.

Quis custodiet reviewiet ipsos custodes reviewes has now been answered.

I ain't even pretending I know Latin.

But hey, at least they waited until after Christmas so I wouldn't be deprived of my dutifully earned stocking stuffer...


Iggy please repost NYC rant here

Thomas Collins

OK, MM has given us the words, now let's listen to the song as sung by the Chairman of the Board!


Jeff Dobbs

I love New York, but...

Just kidding, I don't really love NY

No really, I'm just kidding.

buccaneer morgan

The octopus has paid the vig, Parker is an enormous tool, re Rickman despite his personal left wing politics, his portrayal was a satirical take on the pretense re entebbe and Carlos himself.

Rick Ballard

"Does Cruz lose votes in Iowa or New Hampshire (or even upstate New York?) by noting that New York city values are not conventionally conservative?"

I would imagine his target was more South Caroling and SEC Super Tuesday states. He will return to the values barb wrt comments on Blue Hells regularly. Blue Hells just aren't part of the target market.


"Does Cruz lose votes in Iowa or New Hampshire (or even upstate New York?) by noting that New York city values are not conventionally conservative"

It depends. Why do Iowans despise the victims of 9/11 so much? Why do Iowans mock those who rushed into skyscrapers that were falling down to save the lives of people burning alive?

Are Iowans really THAT special? Are Iowans God's golden angels sent down to earth to float and glow and shit diamonds while showing the rest of us wretches how truly awful we are?

That's some special people

You know....maybe this is the difference between the respective parties....right here....on this whole New York values thing.

Maybe it's this.

Dave (in MA)

I think any city that selects Warren maiden name Wilhelm as its mayor has removed itself from consideration as the greatest city in it's own state, never mind in the country or the world.

Thomas Collins

Cruz v. Trump was on center stage, but Rubio v. Christie was also interesting. Rubio is clearly concerned that Christie could either displace him as the establishment's best hope, or at least mess up NH for him.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Iggy please repost NYC rant here --

Is this a trick?


The Editor in Chief of Black's Law Dictionary weighs in:

Blood rights would be a matter of naturalization at birth. So the “conventional wisdom” cited at the outset—the idea that there are three modes of acquiring citizenship—might be incorrect. At common law and at the time of the Constitution’s ratification, there were two modes: birth within the nation (jus soli) and naturalization (of which blood rights, or jus sanguinis, is a subset). On this view, a foreign-born child of a U.S. citizen has been naturalized at birth—but naturalized, to be sure.

But Article II doesn’t disqualify someone “naturalized at birth.” It says “natural-born citizen.” And as we have seen, at common law a foreign-born child of a father-subject is considered for “all purposes whatsoever” a natural-born subject. That should be conclusive.


An interesting way to reach that conclusion.

Jack is Back (but On Alert)!


I'll repost my rant which was a few hours earlier than Iggy's and from a native New Yorker but not a City New Yorker:

Well, the problem with Trump's defense of New York values (i.e. 911 response) is that he presumes that only New Yorkers can deal with that level of terror tragedy. That demeans the rest of the country.

Does he think the good people of Kansas City, or Charlotte or Columbus or Denver would run to the Fed's first and not respond on their own in the same fashion as New York if they experienced a similar attack? Those are not the values Cruz is insinuating and he was clear about that.

I give you the difference between the good people of Nashville during those devastating floods and how New York responded to Sandy or the way New Orleans to Katrina versus how Mississippi responded. Democratic administration and values or fealty to big government vs. Republican values of self-reliance and determination.

Posted by: Jack is Back (but On Alert)! | January 15, 2016 at 09:42 AM

Miss Marple

Here's Mark Steyn's history of the song "New York, New York" and how Sinatra made it his own.

Surprisingly, the song wasn't written until the 70's. Sinatra sang it so much I actually thought it was much older.

Great read on song-writing history and an iconic song, if you have time:



Cruz should have said "There's threel socialists on the Supreme Court and they're all from NY"


From TM's Hot Air link:

“But I would note that the birther theories that Donald has been relying on, some of the more extreme ones insist that you must not only be born on U.S. soil, but have two parents born on U.S. soil. Under that theory, not only would I be disqualified, Marco Rubio would be disqualified, Bobby Jindal would be disqualified and, interestingly enough, Donald J. Trump would be disqualified.”

Ridiculous. Having done this for about a decade, I have never ever seen the theory of both parents needing to be born on US soil.

Reductio ad absurdum gone wild and falsely attributed to Trump.


The GOP War on Women

The GOP War on Muslims

The GOP War on Immigrants

The GOP War on the victims of 9/11.

Well,the Republican party has already tried to defund the Zadroga bill,so it's not as if this "War on the victims of 9/11" hasn't been going on for quite some time.

EVEN Toronto-Ted refused to fund the bill,hoping that those who rushed into the burning buildings on 9/11 wouldn't have adequate health care.

Were they Republican values on display?


BTW, I pledge to do my best to not go off-topic on this thread.

Rick Ballard


Rubio may be concerned about Cruz receiving more support from those leaving Carson than anticipated. Rubio is currently in very decent shape for his last half run. He seemed a bit breathless last night but I doubt it was due to any concern re Christie.

Dave (in MA)

Never been much for the whole MOR crooning sort of thing, but I'd like to thank Frank for preventing us from having to be subjected to Liza Minelli's shrieking every time we catch a Yankee came on the tube.

Cecil Turner

I for one want to go on record as deploring slashing in debates.

Didn't see the New York values moment, but it fairly transparently hearkens to Jeane Kirkpatrick's "San Francisco Values" speech from the 1984 convention. I wouldn't think it'd be all that successful, although if it leads to a bunch of high dudgeon from some NYers, that might change.

From Cruz's viewpoint, anything that gets him in the national news is probably a plus.

Dave (in MA)



Remember the "Men Who Look Like Old Lesbians" link from several days ago? Skip on over to HA and scroll down to this story:


Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Reductio ad absurdum gone wild and falsely attributed to Trump.--

No he didn't. He was referring to the more extremist versions, not Trump's presumed version.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--The Editor in Chief of Black's Law Dictionary weighs in...--

He somehow managed to disagree with everything both of us said a few threads back.

But I would note that the birther theories that Donald has been relying on, some of the more extreme ones...

He lays that theory on Trump.


Either way, I have never seen that theory presented. It is only useful as a distraction.


I think Cruz's "NY values" was a somewhat short-sighted effort to cozy up to Iowa and NH voters, but as I said in the last thread, comes off as demeaning Trump supporters, something we've generally said was not good. I don't think it's a big deal, but a minor slip on Cruz's part.

Cecil Turner

. . . every time we catch a Yankee came on the tube.

I would say the obvious answer is to avoid watching those guys play. But since they got Chapman, I might have to make an exception. A 105 mph fastball is an incredible thing to experience . . . makes a 98 look like softball. Saw him last summer in person and it was nothing short of incredible.

Vain attempt to preserve OT deniability: he's a de la Cruz, from Cuba. So there!


The Black's guy did conclude that "naturalization at birth" does happen.

And he went through all kinds of history/authorities to get there.

buccaneer morgan

Yes the arb and practically every panel since, has been a coverup, the men who were on site, certainly saw how deliberate they were abandoned, coincidentally there are echoes of Somalia in this.

Thomas Collins

Why would any JOMer be concerned about off topic deniability?


Hat tip to MarkO for that link.

Oral arguments scheduled for March 3rd!

I denounce myself for taking up valuable pixels that could otherwise be devoted to a discussion of whether Cruzman has ever experienced a real NYC bagel!


"I don't think it's a big deal, but a minor slip..."

For you it's a minor slip.

For us Democrats....we'd like to discuss it in a bit more in detail.....say.....in October.On all the shows.In wall-to-wall ads that are truly shameful in their substance.

See,Americans don't like Canadians or people who've held a Canadian citizenship until recently mocking our firefighters in New York and looking at them down their nose.

We'll talk about it in October.Trust me.


sorry...in a bit more detail

Dave (in MA)

LOL lyle, is that an attempt to atone for yesterday's admission that your reaction to seeing Chelsea in leather is similar to that of Matthews hearing President Selfie Stick read a speech off Ol' Prompty?


In exciting Florida weather news,the torrential rain and high winds have calmed down. About an hour ago we lost power and the sirens started screaming. The aluminum roof of a plaza very near the neighborhood where we are renting was torn off. No injuries,but several cars are damaged. Too much excitement,hurricanes must really be fun!

Texas Liberty Gal

I think the NYDaily News did Cruz a big favor with their cover this morning. I think many people will equate that with current New York City's values


"I think the NYDaily News did Cruz a big favor with their cover this morning. I think many people will equate that with current New York City's values"

We hope so.


Why, no, Dave... :)

Thomas Collins

I guess The Rock agrees with Lady Liberty and Trumpster.



Our dear friend who passed away last year was NYC born and bred. His father grew up on a farm in the Bronx. John would become so emotional when talking about 9/11. He may have lived in northern Maine,but NYC was "his city" he always said.

buccaneer morgan

Yes that was neuralizer worthy, the daily snooze run by denwbian slimedevils, really deserves no further comment.

Dave (in MA)

The Statue of Liberty isn't even pretending to scratch her nose as our illustrious CIC likes to do.

Heck of a job, Bammy:






From the skull shifter knob:

Ann Coulter ‏@AnnCoulter

But no one thinks both parents had to be BORN here-only citizens. Cruz played fast & loose w/ the Constitution again

Ann Coulter ‏@AnnCoulter

Like disputing sun rises in east by saying "& some people say earth is flat!" NO ONE says parents have 2 B born here

Thomas Collins

Rick, my guess is that if it comes down to Trump, Cruz and Rubio, Cruz will be a better slogger and will pick up the necessary delegates. I would say that the above three are the most likely survivors after the March 1st primary totals are tallied. I'm having trouble picking a fourth who might still be viable at that point. But if Christie wins NH, I think he could still be a contender after March 1st.

Am I leaving anyone out? Anyone think Jebster's ads will stick and he'll be in good enough shape after NH to survive the March 1st cut?


Love Ted Cruz but he & Rubio may need a little seasoning...

Jack is Back!

At the Orthos sitting in a wheelchair ready for some relief. Hope it is more permanent than what I get reading DuDa.


at Drudge -

Hands out free tickets...
POLL: Quarter of Republicans think Cruz birthplace disqualifies him for president...
'Natural-Born Citizen' Status Tested in Birther Suit...
RNC member urges party to rally against Trump...

DOW -500

I think Americans, that aren't political junkies, like the fact that Trump is a businessman.



The street behind my house is a river. My guess is there is close to a foot of water sitting there.

Florida weather is a whole new world.

Dave (in MA)

"skull shifter knob" Every time I see her, the old Boston Market "EAT SOMETHING" ad with Olbermann comes to mind. The only thing he ever did that I was amused by.

Miss Marple

Janet, I agree.

Americans are desperate for someone to fix things, and looking at the field I am pretty sure Trump gives off more of a vibe that he can do it.

I really think a lot of people don't care about liberal or conservative and aren't locked into one way or another. I think they tend to view each issue separately which is why all of the "not conservative" stuff fails to damage Trump.

The general public will go for a raise in minimum wage if they think it would work (it doesn't) so they are prone to looking for solutions, not broad theories.

It is a failure in our current education system. The Constitution is taught as a broad theory with maybe the bill of rights and the amendments emphasized. They see little relationship to their lives.

DOW NOW DOWN over 500.

Jack is Back!


El Niño effect. Winters are usually very dry in Florida.


Good thing we went to the Everglades fan boat thing yesterday. Too rainy for today's bbq. Lots of rain though.

Dave (in MA)

116 of the 269 doomed Walmarts are in Latin America. I guess they figure if those people want to shop at Walmart, they can do it here as illegals.

buccaneer morgan

Yes, and this I fault the Medici for helping install this malware, as I pointed out earlier he doesn't have mere skeletons, he has an entire morgue if he made it to the general election.

Dave (in MA)

:( JiB - get better.


NYC Meet-up: I hope to be at the Crowne Plaza Broadway 49 Bar & Lounge at 6 PM, if possible with my wife in tow.

Coming on on Amtrak for the event.

Rick Ballard


If Trump doesn't pull up stakes on the clown show, then Rubio's second half strategy disappears. Alternatively, Trump might actually get some votes on SEC Super Tuesday and then send out Certificates of Egress, which would leave Cruz in a rut.

Calvinball politics isn't for the faint of heart.


Calvinball politics isn't for the faint of heart.

Too good.

Jeff Dobbs

Two days from now, at this very minute, I will be de-planing in another country.

Annual company sales meeting goes Caribbean (we had a good year last year).

And mrs hit and run will join me on Wednesday.


Art in Newport

Hey Rick, you forgot the other alternative:

Trump doesn't quit, wins the nomination, and wins the election.



Always worth the time.

Rick Ballard


I didn't include "Trump doesn't quit, wins the nomination, and Clinton wins the election." which has a much higher probability, either.

I didn't have time. Unicorns don't brush themselves.


sbw-see you there. Hopefully jmh and I can do some museums that week as well. I emailed her that the Morgan has an exhibit on Hemingway between the wars that looked interesting.

I do not think I will know until we are in NYC whether the diva will be adios momma or I want to know you will not leave this room while I am gone. Maybe a bit of both on varying days.

buccaneer morgan

So goose graham endorsement of the Medici is not a game...


Donald J. Trump–Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

Jeb Bush, who did poorly last night in the debate and whose chances of winning are zero, just got Graham endorsement. Graham quit at O.

pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter

"Graham quit at O." So is 0 + still O?

Jeff Dobbs

Dan Haggerty has died.



Dan Haggerty has died.

I guess if you believe in the old "death comes in threes" superstition - he is #3.


rse, I saw the First Pages exhibit at the Morgan a while back. Loved it. Nice shop, too.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Eastern CA is, as indicated by all the chemtrails overhead, still part of flyover country.

For the contingent of Reps residing in the blue hells, Cruz's New York state of mind will cost him votes that he either wouldn't have received in the first place [I know that makes no sense, but it sounds good] or wouldn't have mattered if he had.

For the rest of us in Pace picante country who are happy to be flown over (so long as the porta potties are kept sealed) his remark will be, at worst, a small positive and probably a net positive overall.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--The street behind my house is a river.--

You should go catch some global warming fish, Jane.

jimmyk on iPhone

"Coming on on Amtrak for the event."

Looking forward, sbw. But TMI about your Amtrak ride. :)


Small town has had it - sends busload of Syrian immigrants to Merkel's office.


Old Lurker

You are quick, Jimmy.

That was a good one.

Old Lurker

The ironic local story on WalMart closing all those stores is that they are also terminating plans to FINALLY build two mega stores in DC. They have wanted to for years, but the city keeps demanding more and more treasure to allow them to proceed. Now the big push on the DC Council is, in addition to a big increase in the Min Wages, the imposition of 16 weeks of family leave for a long list of personal events.

Delicious justice for Communist DC.

Dave (in MA)
I guess if you believe in the old "death comes in threes" superstition - he is #3.
Miss Marple

I find it interesting that both Hillary, Cuomo and DeBlasio have now asked Cruz for an apology.

It's like they are following Trump's lead, which is interesting.

One would think someone like DeBlasio would have realized the opportunity for that comment. And especially Hillary should have, since she is going to have to possibly run against Cruz.

Neither one said beans until Trump objected to the comment.

jimmyk on iPhone

I have a feeling Cruz will come up with a good retort. He should hire Iowahawk or bgates.

James D.

Remind me why shutting down the government was a bad idea?

The National Transportation Safety Board wants to decrease the legal driving limit to one drink, lowering the legal limit on blood-alcohol content to 0.05 “or even lower.”

The agency released its “most wanted list” on Wednesday, a laundry list of policies it would like implemented nationally. The list includes recommendations to reduce the current 0.08 blood alcohol content limit and outlaw all cell phone use while driving, even hands-free technology.

But the best quote:

The agency issued the recommendation while admitting that “the amount consumed and crash risk is not well understood.”

Because making national policy that will impact millions of people even though the thing you're regulating "is not well understood" is a spectacular idea.

I want unsafe drivers off the roads as much as anyone else. But lowering the legal limit to the point where one drink will get you arrested doesn't seem as though it will do much for safety, BUT it will do a lot as far as enlarging the pool of people that cities and states can arrest, fine and jail, which is good business for governments and government employee unions.


I found this to be an interesting read: Trump's Unexpected Ally Against the Clintons--David Brock

A bit from the article:

Brock then recounts, “It was Bill’s womanizing that had turned their personal life into tabloid fodder….[G]iven Bill’s personal history and character, Hillary and her team had to treat them all as potentially true.”

...Their response was ruthless. Brock quotes Rex Nelson, former political editor of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, recalling that “women were called and told they’d make them look like whores if they came forward.” The campaign hired a private investigator, Jack Palladino, who Brock reports was “part of the same circle with which Hillary Rodham had been associated in the early 1970s.” Palladino’s job was simple: To contain what Clinton operative Betsey Wright called “bimbo eruptions.”

The Clintons are who I blame for the moral destruction of our country's values..at least they laid the groundwork for what we're dealing with today.

jimmyk on iPhone

James D, that's one step away from Prohibition. I'd like to think it won't fly. In any case, at the moment isn't the cutoff a state decision? Not that that seems to matter any more.


Rain passed thru LBK off Sarasota with no damage--it's sunny and 74.

Old Lurker

Jimmy, they are state decisions but the Feds make compliance with Fed Standards a condition for getting Transportation dollars sent back to the states.

Same old, same old.


Dam autocorrect. :-)



Buy bigger glasses.

Thomas Collins

On Monday my son and I are seeing the film Rosenwald. Here is a description of the film.

"The incredible story of Julius Rosenwald, who never finished high school but rose to become the President of Sears. Influenced by the writings of the educator Booker T. Washington, this Jewish philanthropist joined forces with African American communities during the Jim Crow South to build over 5,300 schools during the early part of the 20th century. Inspired by the Jewish ideals of tzedakah (charity) and tikkun olam (repairing the world), and a deep concern over racial inequality in America, Julius Rosenwald used his wealth to become one of America’s most effective philanthropists. Because of his modesty, Rosenwald’s philanthropy and social activism are not well-known today. He gave away $62 million in his lifetime.
Special screening in honor of Martin Luther King Day. Screening will be followed by a Q&A with the director. All proceeds will go to support Saturday Morning Community Partners."

This film is showing on Monday, January 18, 2016, at JCC Manhattan, 334 Amsterdam Avenue (Amsterdam and 76th Street). If any JOM New York Cityer or JOMer who is in NYC this Monday would like to see this film, please call or text me at seven eight one 2 four seven 3 one 6 three. I have extra tickets.

jimmyk on iPhone

OL, it figures, and this is exactly the sort of thing that a real opposition party would campaign against, and actually do away with, the erosion of state autonomy by taking fed dollars. Ideally just do away with the program's dispensing money to states; it's hard to sustain a "no strings attached" policy.

Jack is Back (but On )!

Update: Drained 135 ccs of fluid. Some blood. Need lab report. Most likely gout and need to cut out the alcohol. Still lots of pain. No crutches that will fit me (have to wait until Tuesday). Lots of ice, super anti-inflammatory prescription. Going on gout diet which is basically what I already eat now anyway. Don't know my condition for next week but should be a lot better.

Hope to still meet up at the 49 Lounge.

Miss Marple

Oh good. GOP legislature starts talking about this in an election year:


Texas Liberty Gal

Another view on NY values


Miss Marple


That is very painful if gout. Good news is no surgery but bad news is no alcohol!

Hope you get to feeling better!

Miss Marple

Hillary just HAD to mention Area 51.

Mutilated cows found in northeast Georgie.



Tom Lipscomb
17 mins ·
FLASH! A former Navy SEAL, Matt Bracken, just blew up what I have been calling "A PACK OF LIES FROM THE US AND IRAN"
on what the hell happened that got our boats captured and taken to the Farsi Islands.
REMEMBER the single most dangerous area in all the Persian Gulf is a small group of Island in almost the middle of the heavily travelled shipping lanes that is a major naval base for Iran and the HQ of the radical IRG for special operations of their own against all the countries abutting the Gulf. A top Marine told me our two boats were special ops boats with crews that delivered our OWN SEALS... the direct rivals of the IRG on Farsi.
The idea that toxic area would be a possible rendez vous site area for a refueling is IDIOTIC... as is the idea of commo and navigation failure. You might as reasonably expect Gibraltar to be a rendez vous point for resupply for the Nazi subs in DAS BOOT
If the US press today wasn't evenly split between toadys and military incoherents, they should have seen what has been clear to anyone who has any military experience. For David Kahane Mackubin Owens Clarice Feldman. Pryam Farll, Christopher Buckley, John A. Barnes Gypsy-Rose Adler David Goldman Lynne Pauls Baron Jane Vawter
I rarely pull out my dusty old trident, but in this case, here goes. I was a Navy SEAL officer in the 1980s, and this kind of operation (transiting small boats in foreign waters) was our bread and butter. Today, these boats both not only had radar, but multiple GPS devices, including chart plotters that place your boat's icon right on the chart. The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.
For an open-water transit between nations, the course is studied and planned in advance by the leaders of the Riverine Squadron, with specific attention given to staying wide and clear of any hostile nation's claimed territorial waters. The boats are given a complete mechanical check before departure, and they have sufficient fuel to accomplish their mission plus extra. If, for some unexplainable and rare circumstance one boat broke down, the other would tow it, that's why two boats go on these trips and not one! It's called "self-rescue" and it's SOP.
This entire situation is in my area of expertise. I can state with complete confidence that both Iran and our own State Department are lying. The boats did not enter Iranian waters. They were overtaken in international waters by Iranian patrol boats that were so superior in both speed and firepower that it became a "hands up!" situation, with automatic cannons in the 40mm to 76mm range pointed at them point-blank. Surrender, hands up, or be blown out of the water. I assume that the Iranians had an English speaker on a loudspeaker to make the demand. This takedown was no accident or coincidence, it was a planned slap across America's face.
Just watch. The released sailors will be ordered not to say a word about the incident, and the Iranians will have taken every GPS device, chart-plotter etc off the boats, so that we will not be able to prove where our boats were taken.
The "strayed into Iranian waters" story being put out by Iran and our groveling and appeasing State Dept. is utter and complete BS from one end to the other.
(this was buried in the comments section to a Rick Moran article in American Thinker many thanks to Cathy Berry Willinger for hangin it where I could see it.)


shocking that both the Obama administration and the Iranian government would be lying, he said in his best Claude Rains voice

Old Lurker

Like the guy on the radio said...it has come to not knowing whether to believe or guys or Iran's.

Also it is hard to imagine that the onboard GPS devices are the only way we know where those boats went.

Fishy fishy fishy


Who you gonna' believe, Joe Biden, or your eyes and ears?

Thanks for posting that Clarice.


With absolutely no military experience beyond reading Tom Clancy, that's what I've thought all along.

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