Just Don't Say "Boots On The Ground"

The US and allies will complete the burial of Hillary's plan for a bootless intervention in Libya sometime soon:

U.S. and Allies Weigh Military Action Against ISIS in Libya

By ERIC SCHMITT and HELENE COOPER  JAN. 22, 2016

WASHINGTON — Worried about a growing threat from the Islamic State in Libya, the United States and its allies are increasing reconnaissance flights and intelligence collecting there and preparing for possible airstrikes and commando raids, senior American policy makers, commanders and intelligence officials said this week.

While no decision has been finalized about when the United States and its allies will formally expand action in Libya against the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, administration officials indicated that it might be very soon. A decision will probably come in “weeks” but “not hours,” Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Friday.

“It’s fair to say that we’re looking to take decisive military action against ISIL in conjunction with the political process” in Libya, General Dunford said. “The president has made clear that we have the authority to use military force.”

Presumably Obama will want to coordinate this escalation with the Iowa / New Hampshire political calendar.

The article includes a reminder of the scope of the Mid East debacle:

“There is a concern about Libya,” Gen. Joseph L. Votel, the head of the military’s Special Operations Command, said at a conference in Washington this week. “It can’t all be about Iraq and Syria.”

And Iran. And Yemen. And whatever.

Libya could present the West with challenges equal to those an American-led coalition faces in fighting the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq. In those two countries, the Islamic State is hemmed in by a host of armed groups with international backing and is being pummeled by American, British and other allied airstrikes.

Right. Bombing a conventional government into submission rarely works. So what are the prospects for bombing a terrorist group holding the civilian population hostage?

Comments

[matt]

So they're going to repeat what they did in Syria?

oh, and first....

[cheerleader]

One of Trump's often repeated pet peeves is that policy makers, intelligence officials and commanders are a bunch of blabbermouths and that information like this should not be made public so the enemy knows about it and can prepare. He was schooled in a military academy so I guess that's what they were taught back then. He says his generals will not be going on tv.

[henry]

This time airpersons will prepare the bombs. So they have that going for them.

[Rick Ballard]

Would you rather spend Arab Spring Break in Sirte or Fallujah?

Will the use of "decisive military force" involve surrendering to Persians again? I know there are some Persians in Libya but are there any of high enough rank to ensure a proper ceremony?

[_peter]

So I was first on a thread no one reads. Now you know why I post here less.

[rich@gmu]

still catching up peter and I'd have to rank Deflategate up in the top 5 things I don't care about.

[Sandy Daze]

Henry, you failed to mention the contribution of the riflepeople, or int he immortal words, "every MARINE is a riflemanperson !

err Riflemanperson => Rifleper

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/01/06/marine-corps-boot-camp-job-titles-gender-neutral/78393548/

Just what is to be done with the term human ?
huzer ?
huzee ?
huper ???

[daddy]

Didn't read the attached link but I recall that retired General Keane last week said the latest intel suggested there were about 10,000 ISIS Fighters now in Libya.

That's a lot of "boots on the ground."

[Thomas Collins]

I noticed, peter.

[daddy]

OK, this is from TM's NYTimes top link:

In recent weeks, military commanders have intensified their warnings about the threat from the Islamic State in Libya, where Western officials believe the group now has about 3,000 fighters. Recruits are pouring into Libya weekly, as the journey to Iraq and Syria has become more difficult with Turkey tightening its border with Syria, intelligence officials said.

General Keane was very specific in saying the latest estimates were 10,000. Keane may be wrong but I don't think he has anything to gain by lying about his numbers.

Since this is a Times story, my guess is General Keane's 10,000 trumps the Time's 3,000.

[glasater]

Perhaps this was posted earlier but The Donald is tweeting NR has canceled Trump's subscription to the magazine..

[Sandy Daze]

daddy:

Since this is a Times story, my guess is General Keane's 10,000 tTrumps the Time's 3,000.

FIFY

daddy, a clear example of Trump's subliminal penetration, as documented at Scott Adams blog. Trump has gotten inside all of our heads (some in JOM land more than others...!)

[daddy]

Here, via a GateWay Pundit link, is the video from about 2 weeks back where General Keane says their latest info is there are 10,000 ISIS Fighters in Libya. I transcribed it for JOM so it stuck in my mind: REPORT: ISIS Now has 10,000 Fighters in Libya (VIDEO)

And the 'Catherine' that Keane refers to is Catherine Herridge, who had just concluded a report saying ISIS's recruiting was going gangbusters, easily replacing the numbers the Administration had reported we have killed.

[Cecil Turner]

Somebody’s gonna have to go back and get a sh!tload of sneakers!

[henry]

Ah, riflepeople! No boots on the ground, they will be in pumps, a tasteful beige for desert.

[PDinDetroit]

So what are the prospects for bombing a terrorist group holding the civilian population hostage?

Slim and None, and Slim just left town on a fast horse.

Oh, and we no longer call them boots but rather military footwear - B1. No boots on the ground either when Hillarity! was Secretary of State.

[narciso]

The big domino is algeria, re weithals piece in the standard.

How did an Iraqi baathist end up running the crew in cyreniaca, Carlos slims isn't interested.

[daddy]

OT question of our DC JOMers.

Clarice, Janet, OL, JamesD, and apologies for anyone I have left out.

Do any of you guys live there because there's something about the area that really attracts you to living there, or do you live there primarily as a consequence of your Jobs and Businesses? Or both?

Just wondering.

[James D.]

daddy, for me it was initially for grad school back in the 90's, then I got a job which kept me here, then family moved down here (a couple of cousins, then my Mom), so that's the biggest reason for staying here.

[Marlene]

daddy,our daughter has been in DC since she graduated from college. She loves it,we have to laugh,because she was always the kind of kid who had to be in the middle of the "action." So,DC is the the perfect place for her!
Does your Dartmouth daughter have any interest in all the politics happening in NH?

[henry]

daddy, I was in DC a couple years mid 80s for work. Major party town back then, a fun place to be an employed young adult.

[daddy]

FWIW,

Just flipped over to OneAmericaNews and I see Trump making a Live speech at Pela Iowa, and the immediate subject is Kelo and the Keystone Pipeline. Here's the bit:

Trump: ...the Government will pay you much more than the property is worth because politically, they want to be politically correct, they don't want to get bad press. You get the market value for the property but if you're smart you get twice the market value-- 3 times. So I don't love Imminent Domain, but you need it. Otherwise you won't have a country. You won't have any highways, you won't have any railroads, you won't have any of these things, and you won't have any pipelines. Keystone Pipeline. Every one of these people wants the Keystone Pipeline. Without Imminent Domain it won't go 15 feet. Does that make sense to everybody, right? (Big applause)

So they hit me on Imminent Domain. It's sort of a boring subject to be honest with you but at some point I said I've got to explain Imminent Domain. You make a fortune. You should be so lucky when they want to take a piece of your property with Imminent Domain. No sale to Mister Miller will yield you the kind of return you're going to get from the Government. So what's happened is the National Review, again it's doing very poorly, way, way, way down, but they did something where they got 22 people to write. Now some of the people, I mean like this guy Brent Bozell. He comes up, does anybody know Brent Bozell. You understand what I'm about to say, right? This guy comes up to my office wanting money, 'cause he's got some thing for the advertise---I don't know what he's got, who knows. But he wants money. Comes up to my office, he wants money. And I guess I made, this was a long time again, a contribution, and then he wants more! I said I don't even know what he does. You know I don't want to be stupid. We could have a lot of money. But lets not be foolish, Okay? So I said, Do me a favor, who wants to waste time with this guy? So he writes a negative piece. Okay You have a guy like Glenn Beck. Glenn Beck. I mean every time I see him he's crying, he's a whack job...(big laughter and big applause and cheers)...
----------------------------

That's enough transcribing, but the audience seems to be eating it up, and now he's given them a "pro-Donald" talking point about Keystone and Imminent Domain.

[Jane]

The Donald is tweeting NR has canceled Trump's subscription to the magazine..

How on earth would he know?

[Cecil Turner]

That's enough transcribing, but the audience seems to be eating it up, and now he's given them a "pro-Donald" talking point about Keystone and Imminent Domain.

All nice, but imminent domain is not the same as Kelo. The government taking over private property to allow public use is one thing. The government taking over private property and giving it to a private developer betting they can pay more taxes on it is entirely another. And since Trump is on record favoring the latter, that's the one he ought to be explaining.

[Eminent the Man.]

Heh, teargassing people from helicopters dismayed me, but I was voting for him a little more than a decade later.

[daddy]

Marlene,

Ms Dartmouth is relatively non-political but is not a liberal or a Bernie Sanders or Hillary supporter, and as of our last conversation she'll pull the lever for whatever R is on the ticket. She has no problem with Gay Marriage, but that's just the air they breath in Public Schools these last 20 years or so. She didn't like the BLM protests on Campus but she also didn't like how the Press covered it in what she considered a way overblown manner, so she's got a healthy bit of skepticism which I'm grateful for and I hope she never loses that. She has "a friend who is a boy," from a Conservative New England family, and as a result has started attending the local Catholic Church with him to find out what that's all about. And for Christmas, since she's really enjoying some class on Western Civ, she gave me a new History of Rome that's supposedly good and I think is future coursework for her. Since she's in to Roman History I think thats a very positive development, as having a grand overview of history in general tends to make people smarter, not more gullible. So, so far momma and I consider ourselves lucky:)

[Highway Robbery.]

The problem with his argument is why wouldn't the buyer pay the seller his 2X, 3X price short of legal seizure? Horrible distortion of market, per government force, that is from the barrel of a whatever.

[Thomas Collins]

Yes, if one is politically connected or can afford to fight the governmental unit doing the taking, one may do OK in having one's property taken by eminent domain. If not, one may get hosed. In any event, losing one's house because a consultant's study speculating that tax revenue will increase because of economic development of a particular area is deemed to provide sufficient public purpose is a lousy thing to go through, even if one is getting a nice piece of change. I hope Trumpster is better at analyzing how he will deport all illegals and then have a Comrade Sanders sized bureaucracy to take their applications to come back in than he is at analyzing the pros and cons of eminent domain.

[Marlene]

daddy,you must be very proud of her!

[daddy]

All nice, but imminent domain is not the same as Kelo.

Thanks for the correction CT. Apologies. You guys all know that stuff better than me, but I just flipped on over and Trump was just starting on that Imminent Domain/Keystone roll, so I started transcribing. Crowd was eating it up.

On the Imminent Domain deal, it always interests me that in Japan, that even with them having an Emperor, the guy who owns that Narita farmland where the cross Runway will someday be built, still won't budge and as I understand it the Govt can't make him budge.

[Marlene]

Jane,how about the windy conditions today? We went into Venice for the farmer's market and a craft fair,the craft fair was re-scheduled for tomorrow because the wind was so strong. At least it isn't snowing!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Imminent?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

If ISIS means Islamic State in Iraq and Syria and ISIL means Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant shouldn't we start using IS since they're in more than just those places?
(granted ISIL accidentally works in Libya)

[daddy]

IG,

How do you spell it? Eminent?

Marlene,

Thankfully she spells and punctuates a lot better than I do.

[Imminent when the bulldozers arrive.]

It's often a very fun pun, Iggy.

[Cecil Turner]

Thanks for the correction CT. Apologies. You guys all know that stuff better than me, but I just flipped on over and Trump was just starting on that Imminent Domain/Keystone roll, so I started transcribing. Crowd was eating it up.

I wasn't sniping at you, daddy. I'm sure Trump was intentionally conflating standard imminent domain with takings for private purposes (which is what Kelo authorized in 2005) . . . because he knows it is a vulnerability for him. Even back in 2011 NRO had some uncomplimentary things to say about it:

Donald Trump’s covetous nature is not in dispute, but what many may forget is that he’s no great respecter of the admonition not to steal, either: The man has a track record of using the government as a hired thug to take other people’s property.

It goes on to document his failed attempts to take a widow's land to build hotel properties . . . and is well worth reading.

[jimmyk]

In case anyone was wondering, NYC shut down, so the great JOM NYC meetup of 2016 has been delayed if not cancelled. sbw wisely decided not to make the trip down, as even the subways have shut down. I tend to think politicians overreact and snowstorms bring their inner dictators out, but maybe all this was necessary. Drudge says NYC is up to near 20".

So we'll see if we can reschedule tomorrow, minus mr and mrs sbw (and JiB of course).

[Cecil Turner]

"eminent domain" . . . sheesh, I knew that. Ignorance is raining supreme 'round here.

[boris]

reigning supreme

[Thomas Collins]

It's eminent domain, but a Bloomers/Trumpster/The Hill or a Bloomers/Trumpster/Masseur Joe race may be imminent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/nyregion/bloomberg-sensing-an-opening-revisits-a-potential-white-house-run.html?_r=0

[brains work faster than spellcheckers.]

Puns there, too, boris;
Here we fall on floors.

[Dangerous fun.]

Yipes, this will be an epic meet-up. Where's daddy with his snow skills?

[Cecil Turner]

reigning supreme

Like Kim says, that one was intentional.

[And simple.]

The reign in DC falls mainly on the plain.

[daddy]

FOX News anchor Arthelle(sp) 10 seconds ago, re: snow in DC.

Doocy the younger (out in the snow): ...It's going to be really interesting to see how long the snow's actually here, cause it seems like it
s going to be here for a while.

Arthelle: Yeah, Peter, when you can't walk in it, and you can't really breath it too---it's bad for your lungs to inhale all that cold weather. I can tell by your breath.

Peter Doocy: Uhhh, yeah...

[Rick Ballard]

DMR Endorses Rubio

They have an imperfect record of endorsing the actual winner of the Iowa caucus but their rationale for the endorsement of Rubio is solid.

[Jack is Back! (But Sitting up and on Alert)]

Back in hospital fo the final assault tomorrow on the infection in the knee.

Going super aggressive on the anti-biotic and pain meds. Not leaving until I see progress. This bacteria has everyone baffled, even Stony Brook and CDC.

Wish me the best. Now for some rest.

[boris]

that one was intentional

Figured but the irony worked either way.

[jimmyk]

All the best, JiB, sorry to hear that, but good that you are getting what is necessary.

[Easy to miss.]

Rule out mycobacteria.

[daddy]

At least there's one guy in DC not whining about the Snow Storm---Tian Tian: Video captures giant panda frolicking in snow at Washington’s National Zoo

[Jane]

BTW I just asked the publisher of NR if they cancelled Donald's subscription. He said he had no idea if he even had a subscription and the only way they would cancel a subscription was if asked, and he knew of no requests.

[Jack is Back! (But Sitting up and on Alert)]

Our pipeline division had a whole professional section that specialized in Emminent Domain. We called it Right-of-Way Department😉 But that's what they did.

[Cecil Turner]

Figured but the irony worked either way.

Ah. Well played.

[Diagnosis made at autopsy.]

Eleanor Roosevelt died of Tb, in an era in which it could have been cured, at Walter Reed.

Apprently, people focussed on how high class she was, and forgot that she toured ghettoes.

[anonamom]

JiB, have they given you a name for the bacteria from the original culture? Before antibiotics got started? Something should have been identified by now.

Are you on IV antibiotics? Did your phlebitis worsen?
Nobody gets admitted to the hospital pre-op any more around here--for about two decades now.

Will there be techs there on a Sunday in a snowstorm to get the cultures done?

[Thomas Collins]

I'll bet a Bloomers/Trumpster/Masseur Joe (or The Hill) POTUS race would have the highest average age of the top three general election POTUS contestants in our history.

[Not a greedy man, though.]

Jack, I knew an old pipeline engineer once, charging modest expert witness fees, who was told by a lawyer that he could practically charge anything he wanted, because he was the only one left with a journal collection which contained pertinent information for right-of-way cases.

[Threadkiller]

Jane, please ask if NR has non-profit status as alleged in Stephanie's link yesterday.

If you want to.

[Threadkiller]

Trump will be on Justice with Jeanine tonight.

[narciso]

this is the piece it reminds me of that piece I wrote on the In Amenas siege,

http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-dangerous-combination/article/2000700

[narciso]

well this is reasuring:

http://rightwingnews.com/isisisil/isis-says-they-will-take-over-this-european-state-that-used-to-be-controlled-by-muslims/

[clarice]

Daddy, my husband and I came here to work--there was an honors program for top students and we were offered interesting appellate jobs doing work it takes years to work up to in private practice. We liked it and stayed.

[clarice]

marlene, on another thread--2 back I think--I posted a video of deer scampering thru your daughter's neighborhood early this morning.

[daddy]

Just finished catch-up (whew) so now the dogs and I are off to damage our lungs:)

Later.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I'm sure IS would like that black map, narc, but right now they seem to have a hard time keeping Sam the Sham and his Syrian Pharaohs under control.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

So, I'm sitting here watching Mecum's car auction and some Peloton exercise bike commercial comes on.
They advertise the ability to live stream an instructor for you.
Are Americans really at the point where they have to pay someone to tell them how to pedal a bicycle...THAT DOESN'T EVEN MOVE?

[Janet]

REPORT: ISIS Now has 10,000 Fighters in Libya (VIDEO)

Time to open a life-jacket shop in Libya!
Show one drowned kid (real or staged doesn't matter) & Libyan refugees can be the next big thing.

[narciso]

well they may not succeed, but this indicates where they will focus their efforts, with their version of the spetznaz fifth column,

[Janet]

daddy,
Husband's job. I'm ready to move.
Must say that Virginia is great though...just not Northern Virginia.

[Porchlight]

Iggy, google "spin class."

JiB, best wishes. I am glad to hear you are treating it aggressively.

[henry]

Iggy, on the coasts... yes.

[Jane]

VA is the worst place in the universe to get a speeding ticket, Janet. I scared to death to drive thru there again.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Iggy, google "spin class."--

Porch,
I somewhat get that, in that some people seem to stick to things better with a group.
This was somebody in their own home, by themselves.
Of course I have never quite gotten over the human/hamster aspects of putting a bike on a set of blocks to intentionally not go anywhere.
Much more fun to take a walk in the woods and watch Chester harassing the local wildlife. :)

[Porchlight]

Totally, Iggy. I'm not a gym person, but as someone who has very little time to herself, I can relate a little bit. Long walks alone with a dog would be a great luxury for me.

[Miss Marple]

glasater,

Are they sending him a refund?

[Rick Ballard]

Narciso,

IS may have enough money to buy the pixels for their fantasy map but they don't have the money to subsidize bread for the nonproductive populations of the dirt poor areas where they are already losing control. The renewed interest in Libya stems from the fact BOzo (and Red Witch) don't want pictures of the starving children of Arab Spring drawing attention to the pathetic failure of their inept foreign policy idiocy.

[narciso]

someone tell zaphod that,

http://rightwingnews.com/column-2/close-gitmo-leave-it-open-its-all-the-same-to-terrorists/

[jimmyk]

they don't have the money to subsidize bread for the nonproductive populations of the dirt poor areas where they are already losing control.

I might conjecture that their response to finding they have difficulty controlling territory will be to revert to a more AQ-like strategy of focusing on attacks on the west.

[narciso]

yes, that was the point I was trying to put forward,

[henry]

Well, they pre positioned forces in Europe.

[clarice]

All this is beside the point, friends. Oer Al Gore we've only got 3 days and about 21 hours until the entire globe becomes a flaming mass.

[narciso]

ah yes, I forgot about that,

[clarice]

If you don't hear from me on the 27th you'll know why.

[Miss Marple]

clarice,

How much snow do you have now? New York is getting a lot more than they expected.

[Rick Ballard]

IS could certainly find Mahometan Bernadette Dohrns and Bill Ayers to conduct bombing sprees in the US and they can find Mahometans or IRA or Brigate Rosse members all over the EUtopia.

I'm a little puzzled about how chasing Libyan headchoppers through the desert would cure that. I will always cheerfully agree to delivery of as much kinetic humanitarian aid as possible by US air people but I'd rather pay Egyptians a bounty for every headchopper head they can deliver than put ballet slippers on the ground in Libya while BOzo is in the White House.

[Rick Ballard]

Is it wrong to hope the first Cannibalism in the Subways stories originate at Capitol South Station?

[Rick Ballard]

Is it wrong to hope the first Cannibalism in the Subways stories originate at Capitol South Station?

[Buckeye]

RB

No worse than my hoping Shrillary suffers a massive stroke.

[daddy]

Just in from a very chilly but a very refreshing and head clearing dog walk. While plodding thru the snow I was thinking a bit about that UK Guardian story on the previous thread, about that career Lawyer who quit and decided to live underground with the rats to detoxify himself.

Janet,

What part of that story in particular did you find offensive;)

On a related topic, which love song to rodents do you JOMer's prefer?

Michael Jackson to Ben the Rat

or
"Muskrat Love?

Tough call.

[Miss Marple]

daddy,

HAHAHAHA! Muskrat Love!

When I was working as a geologist for the coal company, that song came on almost every hour on the morning radio. My son was young then, and even HE hated it! To this day, all I have to say is "Muskrat Love" and he goes into a rant!!

HA!

[Miss Marple]

daddy,

When I found that article I wondered if the guy was marked by too much reading of "The Wind in the Willows," but alas, no reference to the book was made.

It occurred to me that only in Britain could an obvious nut case like that get a book published, and have a wife who said "That's nice, dear. Now that you are back from grubbing for earthworms, would you like a spot of tea?"

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

LOL, MM.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Personally I prefer Ben. Actually quite a lovely song....well, if you overlook the man eating rats.

I have always had a secret desire to gun down the Captain and Tenille with a Tommy gun and make my getaway in a Stutz, like the Chicago gangsters in that Star Trek episode.

[narciso]

seriously the 70s, were a strange time, in some ways, now ABBA that was conjured up by dark magic,

[Miss Marple]

narciso,

The 70's were indeed strange, not only for bizarre music but for BAD TASTE!

Flocked wallpaper
Spanish furniture with spear curtain rods
Knit leisure suits
Extreme platform shoes
Macrame wall hangings
Baroque medicine cabinet mirrors
Lava lamps

I could go on, but you get my drift.

[Miss Marple]

Here's an article for GUS!

http://www2.fender.com/experience/fender-tone/check-fender-custom-shop-prestige-collection-katana-claro-walnut-pj-bass/?utm_content=sf44034086&utm_medium=spredfast&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=NAMM&sf44034086=1

[narciso]

well the Sid and Marty Kroft shows were my first introduction, to the era, mind you, they are not as surreal as what has replaced Saturday morning children's programming

[Threadkiller]

Hope everyone stays safe in the snow.

[Threadkiller]

Jack, praying for the best outcome with your knee!