WTF Is It Now, Oregon Edition

What???

Ammon Bundy and Five Others Are Arrested, and One Is Killed, in Oregon

Ammon Bundy, the leader of an armed seizure of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, was arrested and one was person was killed Tuesday night during a traffic stop in rural Oregon, the F.B.I. and the Oregon State Police said.

Five other people, including Mr. Bundy’s brother Ryan Bundy, were arrested, the authorities said.

The Bundy brothers and four supporters were arrested during a traffic stop along Highway 235 around 4:25 p.m., officials said in a news release. Shots were fired during the arrests, and two people who were with the Bundys were struck. One of them died, and the other was arrested and taken to a hospital with injuries that were not considered life-threatening.

Officials did not say who fired the shots, or if there was an exchange of gunfire.

Yeah, well, the authorities better get their story together pretty quickly and credibly [More]. This simply was not a gun situation (cf "Get Shorty"), however delighted progressives might be that an armed white right-wing nut job was killed.

ON THE OTHER HAND, AND ANOTHER CONTINENT: Maybe not a gun situation, but a bit beyond the equipment they had, which seemed to emphasize track shoes. Immediate threat, imminent danger, inadequate response.

Comments

[GUS]

Oh dear, WHITE LIVES MATTER. Fascist Police.

BALT-I-MORE-BALT-I-MORE.....

[Captain Hate]

Sooo a bunch of deadbeats can take over the Wisconsin state house and not be charged with anything but these guys take over some ramshackle buildings out in the sticks and it's OMGWTFBBQ time with felony warrants and people getting shot and killed on a traffic stop.

I don't expect the party of stoopid to do one fucking useful thing in response to this.

[Gus]

Amen Capn'. This is EXACTLY WHY, we Conservatives treasure the 2nd amendment.
For our own protection.

[Threadkiller]

The deceased :
Live updates:
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/lockdown-harney-county/

Feds just busted a guy in AZ as well.

[Dave (in MA)]

The deceased's Twitter profile:

LaVoy Finicum
@OneCowboysStand
Rancher, Loves Freedom and willing to fight and die defending it.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

UPDATE: (7:53 p.m.) Kieran Suckling with the Center for Biological Diversity has spent the past two weeks in Burns following the occupation. Suckling issued a statement following Tuesday night’s news of one death. “I’m saddened to see this standoff culminating in violence,” Suckling said. “But the Bundys and their followers showed up armed to the teeth and took over lands that belong to all American people. We hope and pray those remaining at the compound surrender peacefully and immediately. Here’s hoping cooler heads now prevail in southeastern Oregon and we can return to a semblance of peace and civility.”

Suckling?
Wonder if the Hammonds serving five years for a fire burning a little over their property line consider things peaceful and civil.

[Gus]

Remember the Alamo.

[Gus]

Center for Biological diversity. Staff member Kevin Bundy,

[Threadkiller]

Live by the tweet...

[Captain Hate]

I'd better go to bed before I say something really bad about that retarded gash and her cooler heads...

[Comanche Voter]

Ah yes the Center for Biological Diversity, headquartered on Sunset Boulevard in Los Angeles. They want to stop all fracking; keep fossil fuels in the earth where they belong (but I doubt that they want to give up the electricity needed to power their Teslas and Nissan Leafs) and bring grizzly bears back to California.

The Hammonds and the Bundys and their like actually use Federal land under grazing permits--the Center for Biological Diversity people will sell you (I kid you not) an "endangered species condom" from their website.

When they're not wearing their lizard condoms (or maybe for the big boys, their whale condoms) they are "grazing" at the nearest tapas bar. But hey, that Federal land at Malheur belongs to all of us, even though these clowns couldn't find their way to Malheur Oregon with both hands, a seeing eye dog and a good GPS nav system. And if they could they wouldn't dare dirty their Guccis in such a primitive place.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

It's sad that after Ruby Ridge and Waco, among other incidents, I have no confidence we'll ever get a reliable story on the events that led to the shooting.

[daddy]

At least now Megyn's got a question she can ask at the Debate that doesn't involve Trump.

Do you support the Federal Governments efforts on Tuesday to arrest the illegal Bundy supporters, even if one of the illegal supporters lost their life during that arrest?

[Gus]

Capn' You are the best. You know I love you brother.

[Gus]

Ignatz, our current federal government is lawless. That will lead to a civil insurrection of epic proportions at some point. Obama and his hacks, DO NOT RESPECT the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS of AMERICAN CITIZENS. They do EXPECT RIGHTS for those who are NOT American citizens.
WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS DISRESPECT FOREVER.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Relinking that Chait twitter feed for this nugget;

Jonathan Chait ‏@jonathanchait Jan 3 Washington, DC

It goes without saying that None of the Above would be a better choice than either #1 or #2.

Yeah it went without saying because he doesn't believe it. It wasn't until he caught hell that he decided what goes without saying needed to be said so we'd know he wasn't saying it but he was thinking it when he was tweeting about how jolly nice it would be if some guys got shot.

[Geek, Esq.]

They would all be free men and Mr. Finicum would be alive had they all simply obeyed the law. It is unfortunate they decided to escalate their criminal activities to the point of armed confrontation.

[Toothbetrolled.]

Yes!!! Mrs Geek Libtard Esqueer!!!!!
Had Freddy Grey stopped breaking the law, and had the Gentle Giant Mikey Brown stopped acting like LIBTARD CRIMINALS, they would be ALIVE TODAY!!!!!
Thanks for playing dimbulb.

[Geek, Esq.]

Violent confrontations with law enforcement rarely turn out well for the criminal. But, credit where due, Captain Blue Tarp promised he wouldn't be taken alive. He martyred himself for his weirdo cause.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Peter Schiff on the worldwide QE trap.
The next financial flick after The Big Short ought to be a remake of No Way Out.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--They would all be free men and Mr. Finicum would be alive had they all simply obeyed the law. It is unfortunate they decided to escalate their criminal activities to the point of armed confrontation.--

You ought to go to Ferguson and shout that viewpoint to one and all.
I'm guessing you'd find #Geeklivesdon'tmatter.

[Geek, Esq.]

I think people in Ferguson understand that armed insurgents have to be dealt with, whether they're named Bundy or al-Awlaki.

[daddy]

Now that the UK Tabloids are covering the story we may get some answers: Oregon militia spokesman is shot dead as traffic stop escalates into shoot-out with the FBI that ends with leader Ammon Bundy arrested and his brother Ryan wounded

[Dave (in MA)]

that retarded gash and her cooler heads...

'tis a dude.

[Stephanie]

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/138125409321/trump-fox-news-and-megyn-kelly-explained-master

Nailed it!

[daddy]

Stephanie,

Many, many good comments at your Scott Adams link above---for example:

Trump just shot Fox News in the middle of Fifth Ave.

:)

[daddy]

Yesterday we learned from that video of Wendy Sherman, that Hillary and her aides (Jake Sullivan, Cheryl Mills, etc) were using their private Blackberry's to illegally send confidential info between each other during negotiations at the EU: Video suggests Clinton shared info that 'would never be on an unclassified system' normally

Today we learn that Hillary Aide Cheryl Mills Lost Her Personal Blackberry, Which Contained Classified Emails

[Miss Marple]

Good morning, all.

Now, will anyone ask Obama if the feds "acted stupidly?" Doubtful, since the person killed was a white guy in a cowboy hat.

By the way, in trying to catch up I saw this link, which might have appeared on the other thread and I missed it. I found the link in the comments on the Scott Adams article Stephanie linked:

https://archive.is/dgLh9

Partnered with Google there were going to be 3 questioners, including a Muslim woman who has called Trump Hitler. Sounds to me like he made the correct decision.

[Miss Marple]

daddy,

Well, can we assume THIS, a confession of mishandling classified information on video by one of the parties involved, will get at least a referral to the DOJ?

I am still doubtful of an indictment, but surely this calls for some sort of response from the FBI.

[Miss Marple]

So, I am reading down through the comments on the Scott Adams blog and I came upon this one, which I am posting in its entirety because I think I have found someone who is as suspicious as I am of both the GOPe and the Left:

I looked at this totally differently: Trump just smelled out a trap:

1) For the first time, Fox was going to have a Muslim anti-Trump woman from Bangladesh ask him questions (Nabela Noor...here's the story: http://www.breitbart.com/2016-... that was approved by the RNC and Fox...in addition to a Mexican immigrant named Dulce Candy. Now...why the hell would they do that? Obviously setup for Trump.

2) All the old Establishment republicans, a few weeks prior to the debate, act like they want Trump after all, and he's really good at making deals...much better than the Man from Canada...to provide political cover for their plan.

3) It's the last debate before Iowa. if they take Trump out before Iowa, Cruz wins because there isn't enough time to pick anyone else. He's not eligible to run, so he's the easiest to take out afterwards...paving the way for Rubio or some other GOPe candidate

4) Whether anyone believes it or not, Fox DID try to take him out in the last debate...very transparently at that.

Trump just stiff-armed Fox with an extremely effective counter-strategy by doing something NO ONE on his level has done before and walk away. Here's what I think he'll do next:

1) His counter-event, you can bet, will raise MILLIONS for wounded warriors. He will have real veterans with problems share the mic with him, as well as relatives of people killed by illegal immigrants. A prominent Pastor will speak, as well.

2) He will live tweet the debate ON AIR, so everyone will see him deciding what to tweet next, who to hit, and why. It's like all of us will be trolling at once...unprecedented again.

3) He has a prime opportunity to deliver a kill shot to Megan Kelly, and he will take it. He said something about "knowing Megan too well" in his interview with Wolf Blitzer, which was a tell, IMO. She will never recover from whatever it is....it will define her.

4) MOST IMPORTANTLY: he will set the terms for all future debates right up to the general election. They KNOW he'll walk. I mean, who walks out on the last IOWA debate before caucuses? NO ONE HAD THE BALLS....until now. He will set the terms from now on with the networks. Checkmate.

That's the real reason he did this.

Man...I love this election!

--------------------

Does this not sound like EXACTLY how they would operate? I think so!

[daddy]

can we assume THIS, a confession of mishandling classified information on video by one of the parties involved, will get at least a referral to the DOJ?

Absolutely Miss Marple, It's a sure thing:)

G'nite.

[Miss Marple]

Sigh. I guess I am the eternal optimist, daddy!

Good-night! (Don't sleep too long, because by this afternoon there's going to be all sorts of news!)

[henry]

Isn't Google's motto "Do Evil"? Why would any American care about Bangladesh 's opinion of our presidential nominees? If the RNC approved that, Trump has his reason to run as a 3rd party.

[Captain Hate]

The RNC continues to act like disorganized clowns. Maybe the NR brain trust should address that.

[anonamom]

Good morning!

I think it was hit who said Scott Adam's blog (MM, above) has already been referenced and discussed, but we just found it about ten days ago.

Explains Trump at a different level than anything else I've read. Can't refer to any one date--just go back to mid December and go forth--you'll get it. Master Persuader series.

Still haven't got a lock on motivation--and of course, that's key...

clarice, OL--what is going on in DC???? Does it not snow at least every single winter, if not multiple times every single winter? Why don't they have equipment to remove snow from the streets??

I only care in a theorectical way. Every single day those people don't get together to "work" is a good day, of course.

[clarice]

It is costing everyone here a lot EXCEPT federal workers who'll be fully compensated. Grocery stores are closed--can't even get in stocks. Poor people hurt most as they've little money or space to store extra food and when they do get out to stores after days of being snowbound there's little to buy.

It's past time to turn over the job of keeping the streets passable to the military.

[henry]

John Doe DAs hire fancy San Fracisco law firm to appeal to SC. They do it pro-bono, which is illegal(maybe?) under WI law. I think they would find a way to drag this out after a week or so swinging under a lamppost.

[clarice]

Murdoch supporting open borders,http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/26/anti-trump-network-fox-news-money-flows-open-borders-group/

[Miss Marple]

clarice,

Lots of detailed information in that article, like Bill Sammon's (VP Fox News) daughter being Rubio's press secretary.

I also was fairly certain Murdoch supported "comprehensive immigration reform" and the H1B visa expansion, but I didn't realize he was co-chair of that group, which puts a whole different light on things.

[clarice]

It sure does.

[Buckeye]

Hmmm

Buckeye Jr. told me weeks ago about Scott Adam's blog and I never checked it out.

Think he was on to something.

[Buckeye]

"Why don't they have equipment to remove snow from the streets??"

Sold it to buy heroin.

[Jeff Dobbs]

BTW...regarding Adams' blog:
Explains Trump at a different level than anything else I've read. Can't refer to any one date--just go back to mid December and go forth--you'll get it. Master Persuader series.

When I first started reading some of his stuff, I thought - hey this explains why Trump can be so formidable - both in terms of being strong in the primaries...as well as maybe having a shot in the general were he to get the nomination. Whereas I saw him as nothing more than a shallow clown, Adams lead me to believe Trump is much more intelligent, savvy, strategic, etc. He doesn't just "shoot from the hip" and say anything and everything that pops into his head in a reactionary way...he's gamed it all out and knows what he's doing.

Only, a while later I started to wonder to myself, "self, I wonder if the 'master persuader' stuff is causing people who would otherwise judge Trump on the merits to almost 'fall in love' with him, his personality, his persuasion, his style..." Allowing them to dismiss all sorts of things that would be disqualifying for other candidates, allowing him to say anything he wants without repercussion.

Or as Trump himself said - allowing him to shoot someone on Fifth Ave and not lose any supporters.

And, well, we might as well admit it. It isn't the general electorate he is "master persuading" right now....it is primary voters.

Hey, wait a second. We're primary voters. He's doing this to us.

Ah, well, ok.

Scott Adams would almost call it...hypnosis.

[Porchlight]

I'm confused. Haven't we here on JOM often said that Repubs should refuse to participate in debates with obviously biased moderators? Candy Crowley and Gwen Ifill come to mind.

Well, this is obviously a biased moderator, and if the story is true about the proposed questioners, it's clearly a setup to take down one candidate in particular.

Why should Trump agree to that? I wouldn't.

[Porchlight]

Also I would say of Trump's detractors, Trump could stop and administer CPR to an illegal immigrant on 5th Ave and then pay that person's hospital bills and put up his family up in his hotels and they would say that he was just doing it for votes. So we are at an impasse.

[anonamom]

Oh hit, I'm not saying Trump is all right--nor does Mr. Adams. Ever.

Thus, my sentence re: Trump's motivation. We do NOT know that.

I find myself wondering frequently,as Trump seems less totally insane to me--

"is this what happened in Germany in the 30s?"

Yes--hypnosis. Adams is a trained hypnotherapist, and explains this all from that perspective.

Or a as Porch notes---somebody doing what we've wanted somebody to do for years??

[Miss Marple]

Good questions, both Jeff and anonomom.

I had to ask myself the same questions, as I amwondering if we arebeing played.

On the other hand, it is a definite fact that Sammon's daughter is Rubio's press secretary and Rubio has NEVER been asked about the Gang of Eight deal in the debates, so this shows manipulation from Fox's side.

I am suspicious of everything, including Megyn Kelly's new haircut. So my view may be clouded.

Again, my question is this:

Is it ok for the RNC to drop NBC as a debate host for bias, but to NOT drop Fox or request a different moderator when Kelly has an obvious bias? The snarky tweet alone is bad enough, never mind the Google YouTube questioners including a Muslim woman who hates Trump. If the RNC was ok with that, they are giving Trump an opening to bolt the entire primary and run 3rd party, and it is in my opinion double-dealing and irresponsible.

[Buckeye]

Certainly possible that Trump is both intelligent and shallow.

Pretty much describes my opinion of him.

BTW, I said in a past thread that I didn't like any of the Republican candidate well enough to let them take care of my dog for a week.

Rethinking that, I would have no heartburn leaving him with Dr. Carson.

[danoso]

I just think Trump the Salesman realized going about this on the left/right battlefield was a loser for him, so he invented his own battlespace. Not sure what to call it -- Elite vs 'the rest of us', country vs city, PC vs non-PC ... but he owns one side of it and everybody, Repub and Dem are on the other (Cruz is probably on his side of the continuum as well, which is why he's #2).

10 months of Trump bashing the media, HRC, and a host of others greatly in need of bashing will be a lot of fun, IMHO

[Jeff Dobbs]

Miss Marple:
On the other hand, it is a definite fact that Sammon's daughter is Rubio's press secretary

Yup, as pointed out here:

Rubio's press secretary, Brooke Sammon, is the daughter of FoxNews Washington managing editor and VP of news, Bill Sammon.

Posted by: Jeff Dobbs | December 19, 2015 at 02:09 PM

and here...

Rubio isn't her first presidential campaign rodeo. Also note her work with Dana Perino

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brooke-sammon-3396a712

Press Secretary
Marco Rubio for President
August 2015 – Present (5 months)

Press Secretary/Deputy Press Secretary
U.S. Senator Marco Rubio (FL)
January 2013 – August 2015 (2 years 8 months)

Media Affairs
Romney for President
May 2012 – November 2012 (7 months)

Press Secretary
U.S. Congressman Peter Roskam
October 2011 – May 2012 (8 months)

Press Secretary
U.S. Congressman Phil Gingrey
November 2010 – October 2011 (1 year)

Public Relations Associate
Dana Perino & Company
October 2009 – November 2010 (1 year 2 months)

Posted by: Jeff Dobbs | December 19, 2015 at 03:59 PM

[Captain Hate]

is this what happened in Germany in the 30s?

No

[Miss Marple]

Well, Jeff, I missed your scoops. Sorry. I was pretty busy in December and must have skipped reading it. Sorry!

[Janet]

Reading that Center for Biological Diversity comment made me think of this old story -

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/09/epa-acknowledges-giving-out-personal-info-in-request-that-included-data-on.html

from 2013 - "The Environmental Protection Agency acknowledged Tuesday that it released personal information on potentially thousands of farmers and ranchers to environmental groups..."

"...the groups Earth Justice, the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Pew Charitable Trust. They were given information on roughly 80,000 farmers and ranchers."

THAT lawbreaking is never a problem. No EPA employees were shot or indicted by a Texas grand jury.

took over lands that belong to all American people

Radical environmental groups don't REALLY believe that. THEY get to decide every little thing about federal lands. Any American that dares to stand in their way is mowed down.
I'm convinced environmental groups essentially run our federal agencies.

[Miss Marple]

Janet,

I also would like to know who really runs environmental groups.

[Captain Hate]

Why is a group of busybody shitheads with androgynous names being quoted by the MFM excusing the execution of protesters by the state?

[Jeff Dobbs]

In the Department of Unfortunate Juxtaposition...

[henry]

Interesting thing in today's WSJ "Election2016" section. A chart comparing tax plans. Cruz is unique in including a VAT. If this is accurate, and not a GOPe slam against Cruz, he is proposing a monstrosity worse than the IRS as currently structured while keeping the IRS around as well. Simply put, that is something statists drool over. Harry Reid would use an exercise device in the middle of 5th Avenue to get a VAT passed. There is a reason for that. No form of tax is more intrusive, overbearing, and anti-freedom than a VAT.

[Miss Marple]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jeb-bush-doesnt-donald-trump-christian/story?id=36536598

Jeb doesn't think Trump is a Christian.

One of the core tenets of the Catholic faith which apparently Jeb didn't learn is that we cannot judge the interior life of others. That is for God to do.

[Captain Hate]

Porch is exactly right about how poorly the RNC has dealt with these misleadingly described "debates" in the past. DoT used to serve as the de facto apologist for the party swells; anybody want to step into the vacuum?

[Captain Hate]

Ugh, did not know that about Cruz.

[Miss Marple]

Oh, Janet!

http://freebeacon.com/issues/emails-show-steyer-epa-coordination-to-undermine-agency-critics/

[henry]

CH, me either. That is worse than Rubio's open borders games.

[James D]

Jeff @ 8:36

Wow. We really are in "burn it all down" territory now.

I honestly don't have the words for how angry that makes me.

[James D]

I received several emails yesterday/this AM from the various R candidates.

From "John Kasich, Governonr of Ohio". Subject line: NH Surge

James, seven polls in less than two weeks have us at #2 in New Hampshire – gaining on Trump. We have just 15 days to go until the primary and our momentum is growing!

Will you invest in our campaign RIGHT NOW with a quick $25, $50 or more contribution?

With your help, not only will we be the story coming out of NH, but we'll have the momentum we need to win the nomination.

If we want to win in 2016, we need to select a candidate who can defeat Hillary.

No Republican has EVER won the White House without winning Ohio and I am the only candidate who can guarantee you that I will defeat Hillary in Ohio.

I'm also the only candidate who has a plan to balance America's budget.

James – Are you with us?

Together, we can make America safer and stronger. Let's win!

Thank you.

Sincerely,

–John

[James D]

From "Marco Rubio". Subject heading: I'm Under Attack

Marco Rubio

James,

More than $22 million.

That's how much money has already been spent attacking me this cycle – the vast majority of it from the Republican establishment, most of it in the key early states of Iowa and New Hampshire.

I need your immediate help to fight back, right now, against these attacks.

Will you go click on the buttons below to make an immediate, secure donation to help me push back on these attacks?

DONATE $5 »

DONATE $10 »

DONATE $25 »

DONATE $50 »

DONATE $75 »

DONATE $100 »

DONATE $250 »

DONATE $500 »

James, both the Washington Establishment and the Democrats are terrified of what my campaign can do – because they know my nomination is the best way, maybe the only way, to get a conservative in the White House next year.

Our momentum is building in states all across the country, but it's incredibly expensive to push back on these well-funded attacks. More than twice as much money has been spent attacking me as on any other Republican candidate.

If you stand with me, I need to know right now.

Time is running out before the Iowa Caucuses, and your donation will ensure I am able to fight back.

James, my campaign must have a strong showing in these early state primaries. Voters across the country are going to be watching what happens, and we need to show them we have the momentum and strength of millions of Americans.

Your donation right now will do just that.

Stand with me today to fight back against my well-funded opponents, and to fight for having a conservative nominee who will beat Hillary.

Thanks for your support,

Marco Rubio
Republican Candidate for President

P.S. Again, that's $22 million that's been spent against me already, twice as much as anyone else. I need your help to level the playing field. Will you go make a donation of $15, $25, $50, or whatever you can to support my fight to take back our country?

[James D]

From "Team Jeb". Subject heading: High Alert

James — we’re on alert here at HQ! We’re reviewing our numbers for January, and right now we are close to falling behind. According to our math, we must raise $100,000 immediately to bridge this gap.

We need your help, and we need it quick. To encourage you, a group of donors have agreed to match all donations that come in the next 72 hours.

James, we have three days to fix this and make sure we are on track to hit our January goal. Can you help out by contributing $100, $50, $25, or even just $5 right now?

72 Hour Matching Challenge
Goal: $100,000
Countdown
Contribute

With only 7 days until voting starts in Iowa, and only 15 days until New Hampshire, falling behind this close is NOT an option.

Please, James. Contribute $100, $50, $25, or even just $5 to help us close this gap and ensure we are on track.

Missing just one deadline this close to when voting starts is unacceptable. That’s why we need everyone to step up and contribute $100, $50, $25, or even just $5 to make up this difference in the next 72 hours.

Please rush any contribution right now:

Jeb2016.com/Stand-With-Jeb/

Thank you,

Team Jeb

[Jeff Dobbs]

But how much did you give, James!?!?!?!?!?!

[James D]

I note that none of them ask for my actual vote. Or tell me the slightest thing about what they believe or why they're a better candidate than any of their R rivals.

[henry]

irrelevant details James. Plus they know you are not in Iowa or New Hampshire.

[Texas Liberty Gal]

@Ted Cruz on twitter

@realDonaldTrump, trembling at being questioned by @megynkelly, channels Monty Python: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l8IkbCeZ9to …

[Threadkiller]

Cruz will be center stage now.

Will the other candidates go after his rung on the ladder, or will Trump get the most time in a forum he didn't attend?

[Buckeye]

I think Trump is also firing a shot across the bow of the RNC.

[henry]

TK, JEB! is focusing on Rubio.

[Threadkiller]

They have found a tape of Trump being flattering to Megyn! Only 5 years ago!!

[Threadkiller]

Without Trump there, who knows how tippitoe JEB! may get with the other contenders.

[Threadkiller]

Sabato was emotional. "What about those poor people of Iowa who needed this debate to help them decide."

Why the group that is undecided, with less than a week to go, gets so much play is beyond me.

[James D]

henry @ 9:04

True. I guess I'm falling prey to something I complain about when it happens to me at my job. WE sometimes get criticized for the mailing we send out - they're ugly, they're this, they're that, etc. But we do them, and we use the techniques we do, because they work. And when we try to find an alternative, the alternatives don't work as well, so we go back to what works even if it is ugly or whatever it is.

I suppose it's the same with these fundraising emails from the candidates. They must work well enough, or they'd be sending something different instead.

[James D]

Sabato was emotional. "What about those poor people of Iowa who needed this debate to help them decide."

The previous 83 debates, the endless cadidate events for the past few months, and the wall-to-wall coverage of every word uttered by anyone with even the loosest connection to any of the campaigns, wasn't enough for them to make up their minds?

[Threadkiller]

Carrol Costello? on CNN explains to the Trump guy that "we are not doing these debates to please the audience!"

No shit.

[Old Lurker]

Do not overlook the value of the Sister Soulja bump that will accrue to Trump from dissing Fox News. And not just to those who have always hated what they think about Fox because of the Dem's claims about them, but also us former Fox fans who now are disgusted with them including Bret and his News Hour gang.

And for those of us who know wholesale house cleaning is mandated if we are to survive, is there any doubt that a Trump could, say, fire all the US Atty's on Day 1?

[Jeff Dobbs]

One interesting note...in the debates so far, Trump has almost always held his tongue in terms of going after other candidates on stage - at least in terms of Cruz and Rubio, his nearest competitors in the polls.

(Jeb is the exception, but in that case, I think Jeb has a personality that Trump just can't help but needle)

Trump has really stepped up the frontal assault on Cruz on the campaign trail. Wacko, maniac, nasty, jerk, etc.

But for whatever reason, he's never wanted to make the same types of attacks face to face during a debate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3361953/The-bromance-Donald-Trump-backtracks-backslaps-Ted-Cruz-wonderful-temperament-billionaire-says-calling-maniac-two-days-before.html

Donald Trump, who hit the Texas senator just two days ago, saying he wasn't 'qualified' to be president, slammed the breaks on any more attacks in one of the more jovial moments of tonight's Republican debate in Las Vegas.
'He has a wonderful temperament,' Trump said. 'He's just fine, don't worry about it,' Trump added, giving Cruz, who was standing to his left, a pat on the back.

I'm not saying it's because he's "scared" or that he's wimping out on doing so...I assume his master persuader skills lead him to believe it is the best approach to take.

In which case, not going up against Cruz face to face this close to the Iowa vote allows him not to have to say "no thanks" when a moderator asks him about those attacks and if he would like to repeat them at the debate. And thus, he can continue to make them in interviews and campaign appearances without the double-standard being as evident.

[Old Lurker]

Awww. Is Larry gonna cry now? Will his Fox fees dry up? Awww.

[henry]

JamesD at 9:19... I'm not sure the emails work. Just pretty sure nobody knows what does work anymore. ;)

[clarice]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/01/how_trump_could_win_his_war_with_fox_news.html

[Threadkiller]

He was on CNN bawling, OL. Probably part of his resume to get back to Fox.

Trump guy on CNN points out that the young Obama administration went after Fox news as one of there 1st acts and it didn't hurt Obama one bit.

[clarice]

Lisa Schiffren
Just now ·
Last night I thought that Trump's decision to bail because of Megyn Kelly was a-a signal to his non-conservative voters that he doesn't give a fig about Fox; b-an inappropriate sign of contempt for the press. BUT that was wrong. He bailed because Fox has added two ethnic mouthpieces: a 24 year old Bangladeshi anchor baby with a you tube following, who spews about insults to Islam, and another young female 'dreamer' --from Mexico with a you tube following. You can imagine what a manipulative emotional shit show that would be. Trump did the right thing. And these twin illegals will wreck the Trump-free debate for the other candidates, who could use some time without him. Big Fox fail.

[Threadkiller]

CNN lady suggested the difference with Obama is he was pleasing a base that hated FOX. Trump is messing with people who may support him but definitely support FOX.

I think that very clearly shows who all the narcissists are in the room.

I'm going to start making my "Make FOX Great Again" hats right now.

[Threadkiller]

Will the Jihadi and Mamacita still get to ask questions? Cruz is backed by nativist border hawk Steve King. Ask him about that.

[Captain Hate]

Lurking with the Horde last night and their reaction to the Oregon shootings was revealing in that there were a few "those guys were asshole troublemakers who shouldn't have been there" comments. Contrast that with how the left uniformly lionized Saints Traytable and Swisher, two pieces of garbage who were worth more to their trash families dead than alive.

Does anybody wonder why we keep losing?

[Old Lurker]

Nope

[Truthbetold]

It's all just a reality TV show to Trump!

Which is exactly what a Trump presidency would be.

[Porchlight]

Harry Reid would use an exercise device in the middle of 5th Avenue to get a VAT passed.

LOL, henry. And, true. A VAT is a horrible idea. I think I read that Cruz is proposing it in exchange for lower income tax rates but we all know how these "exchanges" work. IMHO it should never even be brought up for discussion lest the prongs be given an opening.

[Porchlight]

Prongs, heh. Progs. Now added to Kindle "dictionary."

[Porchlight]

Nope, Cap'n.

[sbw]

Please help me. How is value determined? How is value added?

[Captain Hate]

I think I read that Cruz is proposing it in exchange for lower income tax rates but we all know how these "exchanges" work.

Like the "spending cuts" that dumbass Poppy Bush got for increasing tax rates? I don't think the donks ever stopped laughing over that.

[Buckeye]

Iowa has always struck me as the place where the candidates start refining their snake oil formula.

See who can out hype who.

[Porchlight]

Exactly like that, Cap'n.

[James D]

CH @ 9:40

Exactly. Same thing with Kim Davis. Or with any number of others who pushed back against the progs/dems/absurd government policies, but weren't sufficently pure and sinless for the GOP to actually stand behind them.

[Jane]

I am in the distinct minority here.

I think Trump is acting like a petulant child and his supporters are swooning like Obama supporters regardless of what he does. They just make excuses for him -reaching to the moon and back - just like the dems did for Obama.

I think he may show up tomorrow night but I hope he doesn't. I've yet to see him answer a question - instead all he says is he can make a deal. Well I can make a deal too, but that does not qualify me for president.

I think he is a nasty guy, who thrives on trying to destroy his rivals. It's all about him, not the country and that makes me sad.

I think he is the worst option to beat Hillary.

And his recent actions make me like him less not more.

(now I will don my armor)