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February 18, 2016

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maryrose

First and I don't get the thread topic

henry

Send the captain after Kilgore.

Thomas Collins

I think, maryrose, that after reading NYTimes article commenters for his last threadstarter, TM was ready for a change of pace.

daddy

Good Morning!

I wake up to find I'm not a Christian.

Fine by me. I wouldn't want to be a member of any religion that has somebody like Francis as a Pope.

Threadkiller

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-yorkers-seek-court-order-ted-cruz-ballot-article-1.2536639

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3398872/posts?page=11

Cboldt thinks these plaintiffs have standing.

A Friend of Bill

Captain Higgins Redux:

http://freebeacon.com/culture/cop-calls-out-violent-gang-members-in-epic-video/

daddy

Bummer.

In the old days my favorite Frances was a Talking Jackass that I really liked:

Now its a talking jackass that I really dislike:(

Heck, the old Frances the talking Jackass was even a Military fan!

Oh well, off to work. Wonder what religion I'll be when I wake up tomorrow?

Barry Dauphin

I'm OK if he's nominated for next Supreme Court Justice.

Rick Ballard

Now there is a man to whom ALL lives matter a great deal more than they do to the BLM hug a thugs. It certainly appears as if he has broad support within his parish.

henry

And then there were two, John Doe DA loses in primary. One of the three DAs who are still pushing the John Doe to the US SC just came in third in this week's primary election -- top two continue. Iowa County voters dumped him, he is now unemployed. That leaves Chisolm in Milwaukee and Ozanne in Dane County.

Porchlight

daddy, I'm on record as having given serious thought to conversion to Catholicism, and it still might happen. But it's days like this when I'm really glad that the fate of my faith isn't tied to its stewardship by an earthly dude. Seems to me that the problems of Big Church aren't much different from the problems of Big Government.

DebinNC

CNN Townhall about to begin: Trump-Jeb-Kasich

Go Kasich! ... and I don't mean go away.

jimmyk

Seems to me that if the Republicans ran Sheriff David Clarke and Capt Higgins as their Prez and VP nominees, they'd be unbeatable.

Miss Marple

Porchlight,

You have to take the long view. The Faith doesn't depend on the Pope. He is also infallible only when he invokes it for certain matters of faith; yapping casually at a press conference is not part of it.

Don't forget, the Church survived the Avignon Captivity and the Borgia popes!

mad jack

Henry, can his house now be burned down and the land it sits on salted or is that asking too much?

Gus

Milwaukee and Dane Counties are awash in OPM and hundreds of millions in handouts.
Iowa County, home of Dodgeville, not so much.
Working people living normal lives don't put up with Criminal DA's.

jimmyk

And from the WaPo piece, Capt. Higgins's best line: “A convict is not necessarily a bad person,” he told The Post. “I’ve met many convicts I can trust and very few attorneys."

Gus

Jimmy, ironically David Clarke runs as a Democrat in Milwaukee County.

henry

Mad Jack, I think they have more manure spreaders than salt spreaders there... but I can look into it.

Porchlight

Sorry MM, I don't buy it. There are no infallible humans, even some of the time. Especially when that human is elected by entirely fallible other humans. If the Holy Spirit guides selection, why didn't it do a better job? And don't even get me started on Marian devotion. ;) But seriously, my Catholic friends are the most amazing people. So I concede I may be missing something very important.

Jeff Dobbs

In this town hall format, Kasich can really explore the studio space with his karate hands.

Jeff Dobbs

I was going to post the numbers on last night's town hall matchup between CNN and MSNBC in terms of viewers. But typepad has thrown my comment in the naughty bin six times now.

Oh well.

Jim Miller

DebinNC - In a recent Suffolk poll, Kasich was leading Clinton by 11 points, the best showing of any Republican.

(Those who want to look at the poll can find a link on my site.)

Jeff Dobbs

Better than nothing, I guess. Loses all formatting/hyperlinks, but here you go.


Miss Marple

Porchlight,

The doctrine of infallibility is rarely invoked.

Here's the explanation on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

It has rarely been used, the most recent being for the Bodily Assumption of Mary into Heaven. This was actually a formal recognition which had been claimed since the early days of the Church by the laity.

I would point out that there is no grave for Mary, which would have been revered and preserved if she had died naturally.

Marian devotion is not necessary, although respect and belief in her attributes is. I would recommend reading some books on the subject. Mary is considered to be an intercessor in prayer and an example of how Christians should be obedient to God. She is revered as the Mother of God.

You might find it interesting to take an RCIA class at a local Catholic parish. Call your Diocese and find a class they recommend. Taking the class does not obligate you to join, and in our parish about 20% do not. It will, however, help you understand what Catholics believe, which is valuable whether you decide Catholicism is for you or not.

Porchlight

Thanks, MM. I am fairly familiar with the basics through much discussion with my friends and exposure growing up in a mostly Catholic part of the country. My Protestant soul rebels against intercessory prayer, but if the time comes, I will certainly enroll in RCIA. :)

DebinNC

Reporting back from CNN, I thought Kasich did well. He was able to showcase what he did during his 20 yrs. in the House, how that informs what he's doing/done in OH, and will do as prez. I believe him when he speaks, and I don't sense that I'm being snookered by someone repeating canned lines, disconnected from his history and our present reality, who hasn't paid his dues.

Porchlight

I heart Captain Higgins! What a treasure.

Miss Marple

Porchlight,

Everyone finds his own path. I am always happy to answer questions, but I don't push people, because that is not the way to win converts, in my opinion.

If you ever have a question, just ask.

Otherwise, Catholicism works for me because of its unbroken line back to the early Church.

I also like that people just can't make up new stuff, like my Methodist pastor did when he told me Jesus had girlfriends. (Ack!)

It has to go through the teaching authority, the Magesterium.

Jeff Dobbs

Kasich is still going....

Miss Marple

DebinNC,

Agree he's doing well, but he's not getting tough questions.

He's charming as long as everyone is agreeing with him, which pretty much is how this going.

Miss Marple

OK, here's Jeb.

PD

Regarding Pope Francis and his remarks on our border, Mrs. PD showed me a picture she found on some site criticizing the Pope by means of a picture of the Vatican -- which is surrounded by a high, secure wall.

And of course the Pope protects his own personal border. Swiss guard, pope-mobile, etc.

Porchlight

I thought this piece from Ace was pretty good, riffing off Douthat's piece on the evergreen subject of the fault lines in the GOP:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/361618.php

maryrose

Porch light
Some of my best friends are Catholics as well
You seem to be a person grounded in faith
I see no purpose in name calling when speaking of Pope Francis
He is a liberal Pope get over it
If anything he put Trump in the news and drowned out Nicki Haley's endorsement of Rubio
At school I am back in the liberal world again
Though these people are still my friends we will not agree on immigration
sanctuary cities or other liberal mainstays
What we do share is our Catholic beliefs where we begin each class with prayer.
You can't always change the world but you can strive to be a better person

DebinNC

Jeb says as prez he'd fight for his SC nominee and demand a vote. Ugh.

maryrose

Deb
I like Kasich as well and believe he could beat Hillary or Bernie

DebinNC

Maryrose, we are kindred spirits.

DebinNC

Jeb is not comfortable in his own skin.

maryrose

PD
The Swiss Guards are like the Secret Service
As a Latin American Cardinal he saw the horrors of dictatorship and totalitarianism and has probably fought those systems his entire life
No wonder why he would advocate for an open border for freedom seekers

Miss Marple

I think Jeb is doing better in this format than he does in the debates. He has time to flesh out his thoughts and he seems less scripted.

common man

Kasich is Democrat light. No thanks.

maryrose

Deb
We are indeed!

maryrose

Common man
Have you ever met Kasich in person or heard him speak at a rally?

maryrose

Deb
We agree on Jeb as well
Running for the presidency looks like it is being forced upon him
That being said I believe he and Ben Carson are the nicest persons in real life

DebinNC

Kasich isn't in the same universe as HC and Bernie. I think he's much more conservative than McRINO and Romney, fwiw.

Jane on Ipad

I like Jeb better than Kasich and I have no idea why - maybe because Kasich appeals so much to democrats. I just want them to both drop out.

maryrose

Jeff Do be
Thanks for the numbers on the two networks last night
Trump screams about Cruz hurting Carson as he steps all over his CNN townhall last night
I did post that on another thread

maryrose

Jane
I believe they will drop out pretty soon
I think Kasich wants to see if he can survive until we vote in Ohio on March 15th

Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)

Hil-LIAR-y was interviewed tonight by CBS' Scott Pelley, in case we all missed it.

There was one particularly cringe-worthy moment when she attempted to explain how she has "always tried to (tell the truth)."

btw, Dr. Krauthammer opined that she has been immersed in mendacity for so long that she might now be unable to distinguish her lies from the truth.


If you can stomach her . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/campaign-2016-hillary-clinton-ive-always-tried-to-tell-the-truth/

.

Miss Marple

I like this format, even if they get softball questions. It allows the candidates to expand on their opinions without trying to score points against other candidates.

If nothing else, I dislike Jeb less after his appearance, as well as Kasich.

Since odds are one of these guys will be on the ticket as presidential candidate or VP, I need to get rid of my anger at all of them.

narciso

When he was 25 democracy was restored in argentina, then four years later, the army stepped out from the barracks, they left four years later, then the peronists came back in, with their lefty supporters, the future guerrillas who provoked the coup in 76.

narciso

However when he went to havana, last year where many of these guerillas were trained, he struck a very conciliatory note.

Porchlight

maryrose, you are fortunate to have your faith in common with your friends at work, even if they don't share all your views. My co-workers are lefty atheists and not shy about it. One grew up Catholic, and you can bet that the third commandment will be violated by her, loudly, in the office every day of the week. And it's a semi-public space.

Captain Hate

Don't bother maryrose with facts, narc; it's like dealing with CAIR.

Porchlight

Why do Dems like Kasich so much, Jane? It's like some weird dog whistle from the NYT or something.

Miss Marple

Captain Hate,

Don't be mean. I think maryrose is like a lot of members of my parish. They were brought up to think asking questions was sinful and disloyal.

I think we should try to not criticize people's views of their church.

narciso

Well no, I can see both sides of the issue, however the harshness unlike with John paul, seems to focused almost entirely on the west

Porchlight

I just don't think there any excuses for Francis meddling in political affairs. As narciso pointed out, it's always in one direction: anti-West. He can do some real damage. Trump is right - at best, he's being used. At best. At worst, it might be something else.

Stephanie

http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/black-lives-matter-activist-turns-down-white-house-meeting-invitation/

HMMMM

Stephanie

“What was arranged was basically a photo opportunity and a 90-second sound bite for the president,” said Aislinn Pulley, co-founder of Black Lives Matter Chicago.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/18/black-lives-matter-activist-turns-down-white-house-meeting-invitation/#ixzz40a800qlV

Miss Marple

Stephanie,

Translation:

"I wasn't going to get a forum to spew my hate, so forget it."

Miss Marple

Regarding the BLM guy, it occurs to me that Obama isn't the only narcissist in the leftist racial movement.

DebinNC

“What was arranged was basically a photo opportunity and a 90-second sound bite for the president,” said Aislinn Pulley, co-founder of Black Lives Matter Chicago.

Good for her for not being willing to play prop for BOzo. I doubt he has any personality one on one and basically hates having to pretend to like other people for longer than it takes to smile for the camera.

Stephanie

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/18/rmarco-rubio-says-cops-racist-against-blacks-he-too-has-felt-sting-of-racism/

Doom.

narciso

Even if you agree with him, zaphod comes off in such a supercilious manner, he'd probably tick one off.

Meanwhile back in libya, the scene of the last cunning cunning plan...

Jim Miller

Wasn't Trump the fellow who was questioning first Ben Carson's religion, and then Ted Cruz's?

So I figure he's fair game for anyone else who wants to play that game, even an older fellow from Argentina.

I won't get into it, except to say that I suspect that the Beatitudes are not Trump's favorite part of the Bible.


On a separate question, I couldn't help thinking that the NYT was trying to sabotage Kasich by endorsing him.

MarkO

I am a proud graduate of the Knights of Columbus correspondence school.

Captain Hate

Dondi's gone full retard; to hell with him.

Pretty funny that even the BLM clowns can see through 404.

Stephanie

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/campaign-2016-hillary-clinton-ive-always-tried-to-tell-the-truth/

I still can't stop laughing.

Miss Marple

Stephanie,

She's tried, but she's never succeeded.

narciso

Well in new hampshire, it may have helped, even though he shouldn't have gone all Sally field over it.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--I also like that people just can't make up new stuff, like my Methodist pastor did when he told me Jesus had girlfriends.--

Protestantism was born because Catholics made up their new stuff a long time ago. :)

narciso

Face palm with an old one, he could have said something not so trite.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Wasn't Trump the fellow who was questioning first Ben Carson's religion, and then Ted Cruz's?

So I figure he's fair game for anyone else who wants to play that game, even an older fellow from Argentina.--

There's a slight problem with the different job descriptions involved and with whose ox is never gored.

Miss Marple

Ah, Ignatz, which things would that be that you think are made up?

Virgin Birth? Salvation through the Crucifixion and Resurrection? Confession?
Nicean Creed? Miracles?

I believe there is a lot Protestants share with Catholics. Perhaps the forms are different, but the underlying theology is the same.

Miss Marple

I had best get to bed.

Good night, everyone!

narciso

No those are the core doctrines, which I notice this pontiff doesn't dwell enough on those points.

Jane on Ipad

Don't know Porch but from the beginning of the election cycle I've had friends who always vote democrat say they can't this election and Kasich is always their guy.

MarkO

If I recall, I always got on my horse when JOM discussed religion.

Stephanie

--Wasn't Trump the fellow who was questioning first Ben Carson's religion, and then Ted Cruz's?

So I figure he's fair game for anyone else who wants to play that game, even an older fellow from Argentina.--

Not to be pedantic, but Trump said that he had a problem with a religious leader criticizing someone for their faith. Not that we couldn't question each other's. OK I was pedantic.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--I believe there is a lot Protestants share with Catholics.--

Of course there is; vastly more than there are differences. The primary and wholly predominant one is we both worship the same Christ, which faith is what leads to salvation and all differences are non-essentials when viewed in that light.

--Ah, Ignatz, which things would that be that you think are made up?--

Papal infallibility and equal authority of Catholic traditions with scripture. Indulgences. Purgatory. The need for a human mediator between me and Christ. The rejection of or additions to sola scriptura and sola fide. The claim the Catholic Church is the one true church.
There are others but we don't really want another 30 years war do we. :)

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Boy, she asks me a question and then goes to bed a minute later.
Typical Mackerel snapper. Kidding. Only kidding....I kid. :)

lyle

"Mackerel snapping"? Is THIS the start of JOM-At-Nite™?

I denounce myself...again. When will I ever learn?

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Now that you are here, it has begun, lyle.

Good night.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

BTW, made Mrs Iggy's chicken marsala recipe tonight. Mama mia it's good. We never ordered it in restaurants after she perfected it because it was always a letdown after hers.

lyle

I can never stay up for graveyard shift.

lyle

Post the recipe sometime, Ig. Nytol.

Stephanie

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/health/3947771-some-shocked-estate-claims-after-signing-mnsure

READ. Were any of you aware of this? How many more states are functioning like this?

Sandy  ن  Daze

I've heard of this provision, and believe MN is not the only state with it, Stephanie.

Sandy  ن  Daze

https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2016/02/18/through-a-cloud/

Wretchard

rse

Steph-other states are doing that. Basically if you have assets, as with medicaid and nursing homes, the state wants that dissipated.

Captain Hate

So are all the Kasich fans still unaware of what a giant gaping hole there is in their hero's plan of "let's just get 'em to pay a fine" solution?

rse

Very good Wretchard even though he seems to be using the homonym principal when he actually means principle.

Trickier when both are nouns than it is with which and witch.

James D.

Stephanie @ 3:03

I'd never heard of that.

Interesting how they hide it in the fine print. If a private insurer did that, there would be criminal investigations.

Porchlight

Jane, it's weird. Some Dems of my acquaintance have said the same about Kasich. Just the fact that they would admit out loud that they would even consider voting R blows my mind. Maybe we do have a shot at winning this thing after all.

Marlene

CH,did you see Kasich hugging the young man at an event yesterday? I'm sure it was a sincere moment,but I cringe when people "share" their personal lives with a politician. Do people really think a politician or the government is going to solve all the problems in their lives?

James D.

Do people really think a politician or the government is going to solve all the problems in their lives?

Yes. If 40+ percent of the electorate didn't think that, Obama wouldn't be President now, and Bernie Sanders would be a widely-ignored junior senator with bad hair and not a realistic candidate for President, and Elizabeth Warren would still be ripping students off at Harcard rather than holding federal office.

anonamom

Porch,way back last evening, 8:34: I'll tell you what I tell my children--dogma and the institution of the Church---human. Humans are fallible. And dogma is an attempt to use words to explain the inexplicable. If it feels right, come on down! The bottom line is Love, and there's no better bottom line.

As my husband the convert said when we were debating whether to have our children baptized, before he himself was---I'd taken a 23 year leave over not agreeing with their position on birth control--they can reject 95% of the carp and still be fine people. His thinking: if one is Christian, might as well go for the real deal. Eyes wide open.

This was before the pedophile cover up was exposed though, for which I am very glad. I don't know that I could have walked back in then knowing about that as it first came to light--the cover up, not the existence of pedophile priests. My bishop and I did get to know each other well though because of it--silver lining?

As MM said, take the long view. And the older I get, I do understand where the birth control position comes from and deeply respect that thinking. Kind of like Justice Scalia having to vote to allow flag burning as speech.
(Learning that 95% of married Catholics practice birth control, and being older, I got over that issue.)

Jeff Dobbs

Stephanie:
Not to be pedantic, but Trump said that he had a problem with a religious leader criticizing someone for their faith.

In the spirit of not being pedantic :) ...I already posted his quote, and that is not an accurate statement. While he does emphasize "religious leader" - this is what he said:

No leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man’s religion or faith.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/full-text-donald-trump-responds-to-pope-francis-219435

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